your best advice for returning to Real Writing

Post by SereneBabe
When you slide off the writing-for-real horse and find yourself just
screwing around online, how do you get back to the real work?
Something needs to happen, and, yes, "writers write." I've been doing
my writing for other people so long, now, that I'm a bit at a loss
without a deadline.
What do you do? How do you stay with the work?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hoping maybe something genuine will
come of this thread. :-)
--Heather

Find your soul. It's easy to lose it working for somebody else. Once
you find it again the rest will take care of itself.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 00:01:33 UTC

Find your soul. It's easy to lose it working for somebody else. Once
you find it again the rest will take care of itself.

Bollocks.

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

boots

2007-11-17 07:40:25 UTC

Find your soul. It's easy to lose it working for somebody else. Once
you find it again the rest will take care of itself.

Bollocks.

Hogwaller.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx

2007-11-15 17:03:46 UTC

Just start with the words: "I need and want to do this for me."

You need to be selfish with your writing time. The biggest killer is
letting everyone else have a part of it. Don't let them.Sometimes it
helps to have a secret place to do your writing. Think about what
you're going to write all the time, it makes the writing part easier.

Bill Penrose

2007-11-15 23:43:15 UTC

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx
You need to be selfish with your writing time. The biggest killer is
letting everyone else have a part of it.

Good point. Sometimes my family verges on panic, frantically searching
for ways to keep me from writing.

"Come here, Bill. There's a UFO in the yard."
"The neighbor boy was eaten by a dingo."
"I taped Sopranos for you."
"I'm not wearing anything." (Warrior Queen only.)

They must like my stuff.

Dangerous Bill

2007-11-15 17:10:11 UTC

Welcome back Heather! I'm glad to see you hanging out here again.

Post by SereneBabe
When you slide off the writing-for-real horse and find yourself just
screwing around online, how do you get back to the real work?

When that happens to me, it's usually because I've been pushing myself too
hard to meet deadlines and need a break. Which is fine. If it goes on too
long, and I still don't feel motivated, I just make myself write something.
Anything. Posts in my blog, articles I may want to get published someday,
personal letters to people I haven't corresponded with in ages. Something
else that works for me is reading the blogs of writers whom I admire, and
who inspire me.

Post by SereneBabe
Something needs to happen, and, yes, "writers write." I've been doing my
writing for other people so long, now, that I'm a bit at a loss without a
deadline.
What do you do? How do you stay with the work?

I don't have a choice -- writing is my career and if I don't "stay with the
work," I don't eat. Or pay the mortgage. Or buy Chardonnay. :-) You just
have to make your own deadlines, Heather. If you start thinking you don't
have deadlines, you're in trouble. Make a detailed schedule for each day and
stick to it.

Post by SereneBabe
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hoping maybe something genuine will come
of this thread.

I hope so too.

~ ~ ~
PJ

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com

SereneBabe

2007-11-15 21:28:15 UTC

<snip>

Hmm, yes. I think those external sources of pressure help (need to pay
the bills, etc.). Something has changed in the past ten years or so (a
lot has changed, of course) -- I used to be able to set "deadlines"
for myself and I'd hold to them as if my computer ownership/cable tv/
grocery bill depended on it. I suppose it's an issue of personal
priorities? I can't fool myself lately into thinking I *have* to
write.

I've really struggled lately with the idea that how-can-I-think-what-I-
have-to-say-is-so-f'n-special-that-others-would-take-time-to-read-it.
So, when I get motivated to return to my personal essays, I'm awfully
embarrassed at the ego it requires.

What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way
to maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing
and the writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has
been tough.

Thanks, again, for the responses! I hope more people respond, too.

--Heather

boots

2007-11-15 22:56:29 UTC

Post by SereneBabe
<snip>

Hmm, yes. I think those external sources of pressure help (need to pay
the bills, etc.).

Boy, not me. You give me a deadline and I'll find a way to miss it
just to show I don't have to do what I'm told. Dumber than a bag of
hammers but I seem to be stuck with it.

Post by SereneBabe
Something has changed in the past ten years or so (a
lot has changed, of course) -- I used to be able to set "deadlines"
for myself and I'd hold to them as if my computer ownership/cable tv/
grocery bill depended on it. I suppose it's an issue of personal
priorities? I can't fool myself lately into thinking I *have* to
write.

Do what you want to do. If that's sit and stare off into space, go
for it. If writing is going to happen, it'll happen when it's time.

Post by SereneBabe
I've really struggled lately with the idea that how-can-I-think-what-I-
have-to-say-is-so-f'n-special-that-others-would-take-time-to-read-it.
So, when I get motivated to return to my personal essays, I'm awfully
embarrassed at the ego it requires.

So tell yourself nobody else is going to read it, go ahead and lie to
yourself if that's what it takes. What's important here anyway, do
you get goodgirl points for writing and lose them for not writing, or
do you write to say something?

Post by SereneBabe
What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way
to maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing
and the writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has
been tough.

Most of the threads are insult-swapping and non-snappy repartee, if
you want a writing thread just make one, folks will join in or you can
go back to sitting and staring off into space until it's time to
write.

Post by SereneBabe
Thanks, again, for the responses! I hope more people respond, too.
--Heather

It's only cold outside if you're outside, if you go inside and put
your feet up next to the fire and watch what isn't in the flames maybe
you'll find yourself picking up a pen or a keyboard or something.
Writing in mw ain't much but it's better than nothing.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

2007-11-16 12:56:31 UTC

Post by SereneBabe
<snip>

Post by SereneBabe
Something needs to happen, and, yes, "writers write." I've been doing
my writing for other people so long, now, that I'm a bit at a loss
without a deadline.
What do you do? How do you stay with the work?

I don't have a choice -- writing is my career and if I don't "stay with
the work," I don't eat. Or pay the mortgage. Or buy Chardonnay. :-) You
just have to make your own deadlines, Heather. If you start thinking you
don't have deadlines, you're in trouble. Make a detailed schedule for
each day and stick to it.

All writers have struggles like that from time to time. But I've read your
stuff and you're a good writer. It sounds like you're doubting yourself, and
I believe all writers do that too. I once interviewed Dave Barry for a kids'
career book on writers -- and Heather, as incredible as he is, even he
struggles sometimes. Here's what he told me he says to kids when talking
about being a writer: "There's always pressure to come up with a brand new
idea and write things that keep people interested and then do it again, and
then again, and then again. People might think it's all fun, just dreaming
up some hilarious idea, writing about it, and then having everyone read it
and tell me how great I am. But it's much more involved than that." He also
said that there are many times when he doesn't feel funny, but he still has
to come up with funny stuff to write about. "I just keep at it and
eventually something appears."

Now, if a Pulitzer Prize winner has struggles, don't you think that you're
entitled? :-)

Post by SereneBabe
What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way to
maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing and the
writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has been tough.

There's not much talk about writing here anymore. I think it's because
writing isn't a particularly sexy topic to discuss for very long and writing
posts die out pretty quickly. Or they morph into other sorts of discussions,
about things writers might talk about when they get together. Think of a
bunch of writers gathered together at a party ... how much of their
discussion would be on the craft of writing? I'm thinking not much, as they
would bore each other to tears.

Post by SereneBabe
Thanks, again, for the responses! I hope more people respond, too.

You're very welcome.

~ ~ ~
PJ

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com

Ray Haddad

2007-11-16 16:31:32 UTC

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:56:31 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by SereneBabe
What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way to
maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing and the
writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has been tough.

It's probably more about the gigantic egos that breed here than
anything else, PJ. Everyone here has moments of doubt but for the
most part you can't find anyone here open enough to accept writing
advice, particularly not the regulars. It certainly wouldn't do to
post here that you had doubts. That would be fodder for the next
wave of - what are we calling it now - mockery?

To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in
the elementary school playground that misc.writing has become. To
give advice to someone else is considered presumptuous and the egos
immediately inflate; posturing, circling and readying themselves for
battle to the death. To discuss writing here is to do it at your own
peril. The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as
MIGS, tear apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those
who manage to survive. I wonder what their gang colors are.

You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your
knowledge without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you
and I salute your classy style. If anyone can return this place to
its former glory, it would be you. Steady on.
--
Ray

2007-11-16 17:04:38 UTC

"Ray Haddad" <***@iexpress.net.au> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

< ... >

Post by Ray Haddad
You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your
knowledge without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you and I
salute your classy style. If anyone can return this place to its former
glory, it would be you. Steady on.

Well, thank you for your kind words, but I don't see mw ever returning to
what it used to be. I first joined the group in 1996 (1995 maybe?) and
popped in and out in the following years. When I came back in 2001, I didn't
even know the place anymore. A few of the originals were still around, but
very few. Lots of people left, new ones took their place, and the group
changed. I remember when Jack and Erin came back -- I was so glad to see
them because Jack is hilarious and I like him and Erin a lot. The problem
was, they didn't come back and say, "Hey guys, remember us? What's shakin'?"
They blew in like TNT and started wailing on everyone about what a train
wreck the place had become, and people reacted with anger as they would be
expected to. That's no way to initiate change. What the two of them did
caused as many slugfests as the people they were complaining about.

I look at it this way. If enough people wanted this group to change, it
would change. If they like it as it is, that's how it will stay.

~ ~ ~
PJ

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com

RJM

2007-11-16 18:45:41 UTC

Post by PJ
< ... >

I've succeeded in a writing career, Stupid Guy, but I wouldn't presume
to try and instruct anyone here. And I'm fucked if I'd share my knowledge
with the desperate yearningtobees that from time to time pitch up wanting
to be told how to do it. Fuck them. Let them fall by the wayside where they
belong. If they can't work out for themselves that they're shit at writing
it
isn't anyone else's problem. Most of the prefailed arseholes that come here
are shit at writing. Good. More money for the rest of us. Of course, the
well fed artists, the part time literary dreamers are a different matter.
Oh, how
they mean it, bless 'em. We should hold them dear. I know I do. It's a duty.
In the same way it's a duty to fuck semilterate cunts like you over because
you
are shittier at writing than the most unworldly shit at writing begging
letterers
that ever joined the group hoping for a miracle.

What's more, the "former glory" you refer to is a myth. There was never any
"glory". There was a lot of arsekissing and backscratching, dispensation of
worthless advice, studied humourness, risible bumptiousness, and inevitably
terminal righteousness. All it took to end it all was the intrusion of a
bunch
of joyful guttersnipes writing.

PJ could no more return the place to the past than you could improve your
repulsive future.

Post by PJ
Well, thank you for your kind words, but I don't see mw ever returning to
what it used to be. I first joined the group in 1996 (1995 maybe?) and
popped in and out in the following years. When I came back in 2001, I
didn't even know the place anymore. A few of the originals were still
around, but very few. Lots of people left, new ones took their place, and
the group changed. I remember when Jack and Erin came back -- I was so
glad to see them because Jack is hilarious and I like him and Erin a lot.
The problem was, they didn't come back and say, "Hey guys, remember us?
What's shakin'?" They blew in like TNT and started wailing on everyone
about what a train wreck the place had become, and people reacted with
anger as they would be expected to. That's no way to initiate change. What
the two of them did caused as many slugfests as the people they were
complaining about.
I look at it this way. If enough people wanted this group to change, it
would change. If they like it as it is, that's how it will stay.

Jack is a cunt, PJ. The groups changes day by day. Fucksake, sometimes
it changes back. I mean look, there's dear little Heather again, still shit
at writing, still yearning to be a Real Writer, still wanting to believe
that the
blandishments of a journeyman will make a difference, as if a kind word
will change her world. Tell her she's a shit writer, PJ, and maybe she'll go
away and try harder.

This is Usenet, Peej, nobody dies, but a little bloodletting never did any
harm.
So, anyway, how's married life? Getting plenty?

2007-11-16 19:37:04 UTC

studied humourness, risible bumptiousness, and inevitably terminal

righteousness.

I like that. It's going to find a place in my upcoming book on Stem Cells.

PJ could no more return the place to the past than you could improve your
repulsive future.

I could if I wanted to. Nya.

Jack is a cunt, PJ.

You should really try to let out your feelings more, RJ. I worry that you
hold things back too much and it's not healthy.

This is Usenet, Peej, nobody dies, but a little bloodletting never did any
harm.

Yeah, I managed to live through the blood that you let from me a few years
back. <g>

So, anyway, how's married life?

Didn't happen, Luvey.

Getting plenty?

Now you're being nosey.

~ ~ ~
PJ

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com <-- ballerinas, senior sex, and girdles

Ray Haddad

2007-11-16 21:14:01 UTC

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.
--
Ray

RJM

2007-11-16 21:18:23 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-16 21:35:00 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

--
Stan

Ray Haddad

2007-11-16 22:33:09 UTC

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.
--
Ray

2007-11-16 22:57:34 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]

Heather had really good intentions.

~ ~ ~
PJ

$Zero

2007-11-16 23:02:47 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

the road to misc.writing is paved with such.

-$Zero...

"i'm saying that IF 3 + 3 = 5 AND 2 + 2 = 3 + 3 AND 3 > 2
then well, what i'm saying is that there's a perfectly logical
mathematical reason for all of that. and because of that logical
reason, 2 + 2 = 5 under those conditions."

Ray Haddad

2007-11-16 23:00:39 UTC

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:57:34 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.
--
Ray

2007-11-17 00:15:52 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was more
a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post that
happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end up
like that.

~ ~ ~
PJ

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 00:52:41 UTC

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.
--
Ray

boots

2007-11-17 08:06:16 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

What do pork chops behave like?

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 14:01:31 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why
the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's
post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped
would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad

You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in the
ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on you and
will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

--
Stan

gekko

2007-11-17 18:10:28 UTC

Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain
why the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by
example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray.
It was more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to
Heather's post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she
had hoped would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in
the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on
you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.

"absolute raving pork chops"?

I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

--
gekko

The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get
much sleep. -- Woody Allen

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 18:24:14 UTC

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain
why the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by
example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray.
It was more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to
Heather's post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she
had hoped would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in
the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on
you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

He's as much a writer as Hotlips. Perhaps he too has had a letter to the
editor published. Y'think?

--
Stan

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 18:26:39 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:10:28 GMT, gekko

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Stan (the Man)
"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in
the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on
you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

As opposed to what, "You've worked hard at being the most repugnant
piece of garbage in the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's
been heaped on you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in
it, scum."?

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 18:42:01 UTC

Post by Josh Hill
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:10:28 GMT, gekko

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

Yes, Hotlips, as opposed to that. Clear, concise and achieves the
desired effect. Nothing you'd quite understand.

--
Stan

gekko

2007-11-17 18:46:03 UTC

On 17 Nov 2007 I went to misc.writing and said, 'You just go on with
your bad self, girlfriend!' So Josh Hill <***@gmail.com>
said,

Post by Josh Hill
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:10:28 GMT, gekko

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Stan (the Man)
"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their
post! Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag!
Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage
in the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped
on you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it,
scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

As opposed to what, "You've worked hard at being the most
repugnant piece of garbage in the ng. You've earned every ounce of
abuse that's been heaped on you and will continue to be heaped on
you. Wallow in it, scum."?

"absolute raving pork chops", Josh. ARPC. I mean, hello.

--
gekko

The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible
worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true. - James Branch Cabell

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 19:00:14 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:46:03 GMT, gekko

Post by gekko
On 17 Nov 2007 I went to misc.writing and said, 'You just go on with
said,

Post by Josh Hill
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:10:28 GMT, gekko

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Stan (the Man)
"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their
post! Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag!
Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage
in the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped
on you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it,
scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

As opposed to what, "You've worked hard at being the most
repugnant piece of garbage in the ng. You've earned every ounce of
abuse that's been heaped on you and will continue to be heaped on
you. Wallow in it, scum."?

"absolute raving pork chops", Josh. ARPC. I mean, hello.

Hey, I knew what it meant. I mean, without knowing what it meant, if
you know what I mean.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 19:11:05 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:10:28 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by gekko
Okay, so, like, there was this, um, you know, "Stan (the Man)"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain
why the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by
example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray.
It was more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to
Heather's post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she
had hoped would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in
the ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on
you and will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Ne'mind scum wallowing.
"absolute raving pork chops"?
I hope Ray doesn't consider himself a creative writer.

It's local color, Gekko. Common usage down under. I don't expect
Stan to get it. That's why it's so much fun to use it.
--
Ray

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 18:26:24 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:01:31 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why
the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's
post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped
would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in the
ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on you and
will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Well then be a real man and take it to another place, Stan. That's
clearly beyond you. Being as you're scared of the bogey man in your
mail box.
--
Ray

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 18:42:32 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:01:31 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why
the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It
was more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to
Heather's post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she
had hoped would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in the
ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on you and
will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Well then be a real man and take it to another place, Stan. That's
clearly beyond you. Being as you're scared of the bogey man in your
mail box.

I take it to where you are, lying scum, to make sure everyone knows what
you are. That's how it will continue to be for you, scum, no matter how
fervently you wish you could hide your humiliation behind closed doors.

--
Stan

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 19:13:40 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:42:32 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Stan (the Man)
I take it to where you are, lying scum, to make sure everyone knows what
you are. That's how it will continue to be for you, scum, no matter how
fervently you wish you could hide your humiliation behind closed doors.

You've never humiliated me and never will, Stan. You're just a
lying, bent cop pretending to be judge, jury and executioner in your
fantasy world. Feeling a bit impotent, Stan? I'm still here. I'll be
here long after you leave.
--
Ray

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 19:20:06 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:42:32 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

That's fine. And, I'll continue to make sure everyone knows what lying scum
you are. And, you'll dance to that tune each and every time it's played.
Deal.

--
Stan

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 19:35:22 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:20:06 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:42:32 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

That's fine. And, I'll continue to make sure everyone knows what lying scum
you are. And, you'll dance to that tune each and every time it's played.
Deal.

What a kind soul you are, you lying scumbag cop. There's no need for
you to foul Heather's honest discussion here with your lies and
nonsense. You don't have a mandate to mess with other folk here even
though you feel one has been bestowed upon you by your gal Sylvia.
--
Ray

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 20:26:11 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:20:06 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:42:32 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Stan (the Man)
I take it to where you are, lying scum, to make sure everyone knows
what you are. That's how it will continue to be for you, scum, no
matter how fervently you wish you could hide your humiliation behind
closed doors.

That's fine. And, I'll continue to make sure everyone knows what lying
scum you are. And, you'll dance to that tune each and every time it's
played. Deal.

Keep squirming and choking, lying, nauseating pusbag. And, when you
think it's over, I'll be back to make sure you squirm and choke again.
And, again. And, again. And, again.

--
Stan

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 20:29:22 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:26:11 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Stan (the Man)
Keep squirming and choking, lying, nauseating pusbag. And, when you
think it's over, I'll be back to make sure you squirm and choke again.
And, again. And, again. And, again.

And I will remain a man of honor relying on facts rather than your
lies. Of course, you will never, ever see how that works, Stan.
You're a lying, bent cop utterly lacking in honor.
--
Ray

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 21:39:12 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
And I will remain a man of honor relying on facts rather than your
lies.

Where are those FOIA documents?

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 22:02:08 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:39:12 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
And I will remain a man of honor relying on facts rather than your
lies.

Where are those FOIA documents?

Right where they belong. Did you order yours yet?
--
Ray

boots

2007-11-17 18:40:51 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:01:31 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:15:52 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why
the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's
post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped
would not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact.
Nobody cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork
chops under most circumstances.

"Waaaaaaaah! You jumped on MY post and didn't jump on their post!
Waaaah! It's so hard being a lying, nauseating pusbag! Waaaaaah!"
-- Ray "Lying Scum" Haddad
You've worked hard at being the most repugnant piece of garbage in the
ng. You've earned every ounce of abuse that's been heaped on you and
will continue to be heaped on you. Wallow in it, scum.

Well then be a real man and take it to another place, Stan. That's
clearly beyond you. Being as you're scared of the bogey man in your
mail box.

Lucky guy ain't he, gots a mailbox *and* a bogeyman, heck I ain't even
gots a mailbox.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

2007-11-17 19:47:19 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact. Nobody
cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork chops under most
circumstances.

It doesn't matter who did what, who said what, who acts like what, or who
says the worst things. You are choosing to play an active role in this
mudslinging, just as they are. If you wanted it to stop, you would put down
your own fistful and end your part in it. Thus, they are no more guilty than
you are, and you must share the blame.

~ ~ ~
PJ

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 20:17:10 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:47:19 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact. Nobody
cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork chops under most
circumstances.

Ah, but you choose to redress me and flirt with the other
participants. That makes you part of the problem, too.
--
Ray

2007-11-17 20:41:27 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:47:19 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's
post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would
not end up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact. Nobody
cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork chops under
most circumstances.

It doesn't matter who did what, who said what, who acts like what, or who
says the worst things. You are choosing to play an active role in this
mudslinging, just as they are. If you wanted it to stop, you would put
down your own fistful and end your part in it. Thus, they are no more
guilty than you are, and you must share the blame.

Ah, but you choose to redress me and flirt with the other participants.

Flirting? Or kidding around and having fun? Maybe they're the same, I don't
know and don't care. At any rate, my remarks to you are not intended to be a
"redress" of any sort. You were the one who referred to the glory days, said
I could bring them back, and called the froup in its current state an
"elementary school playground." So, I'm responding to you with regard to
that. I thought you were sincere in wanting mw to become better but when a
mud fight broke out (yes, they tossed first), you jumped in and started
heaving mud back with the best of 'em. Not necessarily good, not
necessarily bad, just seems different from what you said you wanted.

Post by Ray Haddad
That makes you part of the problem, too.

Okay, I'm part of the problem.

~ ~ ~
PJ

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 20:53:13 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:41:27 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by PJ
Flirting? Or kidding around and having fun? Maybe they're the same, I don't
know and don't care.

Certainly not in the same tone as that you took towards me, PJ. At
the end of the day, you simply laughed off Robert and Stan's
comments while choosing to address an answer to my post. Have a
look. You can see for yourself.

Post by PJ
At any rate, my remarks to you are not intended to be a
"redress" of any sort. You were the one who referred to the glory days, said
I could bring them back, and called the froup in its current state an
"elementary school playground." So, I'm responding to you with regard to
that. I thought you were sincere in wanting mw to become better but when a
mud fight broke out (yes, they tossed first), you jumped in and started
heaving mud back with the best of 'em. Not necessarily good, not
necessarily bad, just seems different from what you said you wanted.

Well, isn't that just PKB, PJ? You seem unable to resist Skippy who
gets your goat regularly. Look, all I'm trying to make clear here is
that this is an equal opportunity for anyone to make it a better
place. Those who "tossed first" ARE the problem, not necessarily
those who respond. Is it really necessary for Robert to blast
Heather to particles? Is it really necessary for Stan to libel me
regularly? Is it really appropriate for you to address me here, now
and ignore those who tossed first?
--
Ray

2007-11-17 21:30:03 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:41:27 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by PJ
Flirting? Or kidding around and having fun? Maybe they're the same, I don't
know and don't care.

Certainly not in the same tone as that you took towards me, PJ. At the end
of the day, you simply laughed off Robert and Stan's comments while
choosing to address an answer to my post. Have a look. You can see for
yourself.

The difference is, neither of them remarked that they wanted the newsgroup
to change. You did. My remarks to you are in response to that.

< ... >

Post by Ray Haddad
You seem unable to resist Skippy who gets your goat regularly.

I have no idea what you mean by "resist," or how that's relevant to this
discussion. We were talking about your wanting the newsgroup to change back
to the way it used to be. As I said before, if you want something --
sincerely want it -- you take measures to make it happen and you ignore what
others are doing to not make it happen. Otherwise, you didn't really want it
in the first place.

Post by Ray Haddad
Look, all I'm trying to make clear here is that this is an equal
opportunity for anyone to make it a better place.

No argument there. And if someone wants to, he or she will take measures to
make that happen, rather than engaging in the very behaviors that he or she
has previously criticized.

Post by Ray Haddad
Those who "tossed first" ARE the problem, not necessarily those who
respond.

Those who don't respond allow the fight to die out. Those who respond with
mud keep the mud a'flyin'.

Post by Ray Haddad
Is it really necessary for Robert to blast Heather to particles?

That's for RJ and Heather to hash out. I explained to him my feelings about
that.

Post by Ray Haddad
Is it really necessary for Stan to libel me regularly?

Dunno. When talking to Stan, it really necessary for you to keep referring
to Sylvia as "your girl" when she hasn't even been around here in what, a
month or more? Not sure why you keep doing it or what your intended meaning
is. Is it a subtle reference to allegations you made a while back, and then
apologized for making them? Only you know that.

Post by Ray Haddad
Is it really appropriate for you to address me here, now and ignore those
who tossed first?

It's appropriate for me to address anyone I choose to address.

~ ~ ~
PJ

2007-11-17 22:38:45 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
Those who "tossed first" ARE the problem, not necessarily those who
respond. Is it really necessary for Robert to blast Heather to particles?
Is it really necessary for Stan to libel me regularly? Is it really
appropriate for you to address me here, now and ignore those who tossed
first?

One thing I guess I didn't even realize before, but I do now ... you tossed
first, Ray. You. You started this shit-slinging battle by saying this:

"It's probably more about the gigantic egos that breed here than anything
else, PJ."

By doing so, you were asking for a fight. And others responded.

And when you said this:

"To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in the
elementary school playground that misc.writing has become," you were asking
for a fight. And others responded.

And when you said this:

"The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as MIGS, tear
apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those who manage to
survive. I wonder what their gang colors are," you were asking for a fight.
And others responded.

So when you later made this comment to me: "Those who 'tossed first' ARE the
problem, not necessarily those who respond."

You were referring to yourself, no?

And when you said this:

"You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your knowledge
without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you and I salute your
classy style. If anyone can return this place to its former glory, it would
be you. Steady on."

I assumed that you were being genuine, passing along a sincere compliment,
and I appreciated that and thanked you. I assumed that you had seen things
changing for the worse and you wanted to play a role in making them better.

You have proven me wrong.

~ ~ ~
PJ

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 22:41:05 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:38:45 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

One thing I guess I didn't even realize before, but I do now ... you tossed
"It's probably more about the gigantic egos that breed here than anything
else, PJ."
By doing so, you were asking for a fight. And others responded.
"To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in the
elementary school playground that misc.writing has become," you were asking
for a fight. And others responded.
"The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as MIGS, tear
apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those who manage to
survive. I wonder what their gang colors are," you were asking for a fight.
And others responded.
So when you later made this comment to me: "Those who 'tossed first' ARE the
problem, not necessarily those who respond."
You were referring to yourself, no?
"You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your knowledge
without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you and I salute your
classy style. If anyone can return this place to its former glory, it would
be you. Steady on."
I assumed that you were being genuine, passing along a sincere compliment,
and I appreciated that and thanked you. I assumed that you had seen things
changing for the worse and you wanted to play a role in making them better.
You have proven me wrong.

I rest my case. Sigh.
--
Ray

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 21:40:37 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
Ah, but you choose to redress me and flirt with the other
participants. That makes you part of the problem, too.

That happens because you're a cunt and everyone despises you. Sure,
it's not fair, but you're a repulsive little shit, and what else would
you expect?

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 20:26:46 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

So did I. In fact, my defensiveness is down to that very fact. Nobody
cares that Stan and Robert act like absolute raving pork chops under most
circumstances.

You know, there's nothing so dirty, lowdown and filthy as a
mudslinger. Mudslingers are like rats. Sewer rats. Sewer rats that
have worms. And carry bubonic plague. Muslingers are lower than
leeches. Mudslingers make lampreys look like Venus. If a mudslinger
caught sight of itself in the mirror, it would shoot. If you asked a
mudslinger to sell you its mother, it would overcharge you for the
fingernails and substitute a cheaper wig.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

boots

2007-11-17 08:04:35 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Don't put her intentions in the past tense just yet PJ, and the same
old thing always happens in the subthreads where it is allowed to
happen. If enough people don't care, Heather's writing thread will
morph into a gangbang of some type or just peter out.

Heather has a chance to keep it going in her chosen direction, she has
only to move on it.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

RJM

2007-11-17 10:47:42 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?

I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.

Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 11:28:24 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.
--
Ray

boots

2007-11-17 11:41:32 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Ray, did you ever burn an ant with a magnifying glass?

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 12:23:23 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:41:32 -0700, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Ray, did you ever burn an ant with a magnifying glass?

Nope. Leaves and pieces of paper, yes.
--
Ray

boots

2007-11-17 12:48:01 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:41:32 -0700, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Ray, did you ever burn an ant with a magnifying glass?

Nope. Leaves and pieces of paper, yes.

Good boy!

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

RJM

2007-11-17 11:58:48 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

boots

2007-11-17 12:49:35 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

So did I, so did a lot of other folks who amazingly enough didn't grow
up to be serial killers. One of the most interesting things I found
to do with a magnifying glass was to weld crayons together. Geeks,
you know.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 16:48:54 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:47:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have attached
this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not end
up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy cloud?
Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply otherwise
containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Well, I didn't. And I grew up to be a serial killer. Which just goes
to show you.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Towse

2007-11-17 18:32:38 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Next question, Arjay: Did you ever sprinkle salt on a slug because you
wanted to watch it dissolve in foam like the Wicked Witch of the West?

--
Sal

Ye olde swarm of links: thousands of links for writers, researchers and
the terminally curious <http://writers.internet-resources.com>

boots

2007-11-17 18:44:16 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Next question, Arjay: Did you ever sprinkle salt on a slug because you
wanted to watch it dissolve in foam like the Wicked Witch of the West?

Is it okay to sprinkle salt on escargot?

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 18:50:23 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Next question, Arjay: Did you ever sprinkle salt on a slug because you
wanted to watch it dissolve in foam like the Wicked Witch of the West?

Is it okay to sprinkle salt on escargot?

I thought salting them was simply the recommended method for getting rid of
them. Who knew they were emitting little sluggy screams?

--
Stan

boots

2007-11-17 18:59:47 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Next question, Arjay: Did you ever sprinkle salt on a slug because you
wanted to watch it dissolve in foam like the Wicked Witch of the West?

Is it okay to sprinkle salt on escargot?

I thought salting them was simply the recommended method for getting rid of
them. Who knew they were emitting little sluggy screams?

I wonder if dogs can hear them.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

RJM

2007-11-17 19:15:54 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

Yeah, I did.

Next question, Arjay: Did you ever sprinkle salt on a slug because you
wanted to watch it dissolve in foam like the Wicked Witch of the West?

No. I would have if I'd known they dissolve in foam like
the WW of the W. I did once batter a fish, though. Fucker
looked at me funny.

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 16:47:28 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:28:24 +0900, Ray Haddad

Post by Ray Haddad
You no doubt lit ants afire with a magnifying glass as a boy.

When I was a boy, the ants used magnifying glasses to light boys on
fire.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Stan (the Man)

2007-11-17 13:51:07 UTC

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why
the newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Does that mean you're blaming this on me, PJ? You should have
attached this to Robert's post. Or even Stan's.

Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It
was more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to
Heather's post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had
hoped would not end up like that.

How did she hope it would end up? Did she hope Real Writers
would put down their pens, take their phones off the hook, cancel
their appointments, heave a sigh and attend to her needs as if
this was the first time she had ever floated in here on a fluffy
cloud? Or did she hope someone darling like you reclining on your own
fluffy cloud would insert the tiniest bit of praise into a reply
otherwise containing absoulutely nothing worth a fuck about her
writing?
I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and
only Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she
hoped that someone like you would not be insulted by the implication
and give her sympathy and attention. No change there, then.
Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month.
If she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can
make an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that
time and act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg
for sympathy every few months. She could then carry on writing for
money like a normal person. Like you.

And, what's more, she'll be a man, my son.

--
Stan

2007-11-17 13:52:53 UTC

Post by PJ
Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's post
that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would not
end up like that.

I think she just hoped for a writing discussion, RJ.

I think she hoped the phrase Real Writing would work its magic and only
Real Writers would flutter round and reassure her. I think she hoped that
someone like you would not be insulted by the implication and give her
sympathy and attention. No change there, then.

I don't think that looking for reassurance from fellow writers is a bad
thing. Granted, this isn't the best venue to seek it out, but wanting
support and ideas from peers is pretty common among creative people.

Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month. If
she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can make an
honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that time and act on
it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg for sympathy every few
months. She could then carry on writing for money like a normal person.
Like you.

That's not my way, RJ. You know that.

I've known you for a long time, and I know you take the "get tough, you
stupid buffoon" approach when you perceive weakness in people. You've taken
that approach with me in the past, and because of the type of person I am, I
bit back the damnable tears and listened to you. (Even though you probably
never knew that.) Alan is a get-tough kinda guy too, and a few years ago
when he blasted me for the sloppy research techniques I was joyously
crooning about here on the froup, I listened to him too. I've become a
better researcher and writer, and you both played a role in that.

But being tough on people who sincerely ask for guidance isn't my way. When
someone confesses a problem, I want to do whatever I can to help them. Maybe
that means I'm reclining on a fluffy cloud, as you say, but I think it just
means I want to be supportive.

~ ~ ~
PJ

RJM

2007-11-17 14:30:29 UTC

Post by PJ
Why get defensive? My remark had nothing to do with blame, Ray. It was
more a general reaction to the same old thing happening to Heather's
post that happens to most all posts. In a post that she had hoped would
not end up like that.

I think she just hoped for a writing discussion, RJ.

Tell her to fuck off and write a thousand a day every day for a month. If
she can do that she can call herself a real writer, and if she can make
an honest judgement about her real writing at the end of that time and
act on it she wouldn't need to come back here and beg for sympathy every
few months. She could then carry on writing for money like a normal
person. Like you.

That's not my way, RJ. You know that.
I've known you for a long time, and I know you take the "get tough, you
stupid buffoon" approach when you perceive weakness in people. You've
taken that approach with me in the past, and because of the type of person
I am, I bit back the damnable tears and listened to you. (Even though you
probably never knew that.) Alan is a get-tough kinda guy too, and a few
years ago when he blasted me for the sloppy research techniques I was
joyously crooning about here on the froup, I listened to him too. I've
become a better researcher and writer, and you both played a role in that.
But being tough on people who sincerely ask for guidance isn't my way.
When someone confesses a problem, I want to do whatever I can to help
them. Maybe that means I'm reclining on a fluffy cloud, as you say, but I
think it just means I want to be supportive.

Yeah, I read your support for this -

"When you slide off the writing-for-real horse and find yourself just
screwing around online, how do you get back to the real work?

"Something needs to happen, and, yes, "writers write." I've been doing
my writing for other people so long, now, that I'm a bit at a loss
without a deadline.

"What do you do? How do you stay with the work?"

You told Heather what you do. Lot of fucking good that will do her. Still,
you were nice to the dumb bitch so she'll be happy enough.

Ask her what she means by Real Writing. Is it what you do? No, she does
what you do already. She must mean by real writing the kind of writing a
writer knows he or she can do by the time he or she is 25 give or take. She
means art. She means, "I'm kept from doing my art by the travails of life,
boo hoo." Ask her. I'd be interested to learn. And I'll apologise publicly
if
she shows me I'm wrong.

boots

2007-11-17 08:01:37 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Adolf had good intentions, why once those nasty Jews were wiped out
the world would've been a place to behold; good intentions won't even
keep you out of jail if events turn against you. If Heather wants to
write, she'll just have to do it. There's a chance she's acquired
some bad habits through employment, there's a chance that she isn't
writing because she really has nothing to say (my hand is up on that
one), there's a chance of a lot of things. But intentions aren't
going to do much to affect the outcome, it takes doing for that.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 16:53:42 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:00 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

Fuck you.

Second!

Dream on, big boy. Dream on. Save your plunger for RJ.

[Sigh]
Heather had really good intentions.

Lotsa bored people jumping on posters because the ants wised up. Issue
analyzed to death. Heather's problem is common enough, been there,
done it. Best advice any of us can give her is do what we fail to do
-- don't waste time on this newsgroup.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Towse

2007-11-17 18:47:27 UTC

Post by Josh Hill
Heather's problem is common enough, been there,
done it. Best advice any of us can give her is

what Arjay suggested in amongst all the palaver.

Write at least a thousand words a day, every day, for a month -- no
exceptions no days off no life interrupted -- and at the end of the
month know that you can call yourself a real writer. Read over what
you've written over the past thirty days and decide (1) whether you want
to keep writing and (2) whether you should keep writing.

Ready. Set. Go!

--
Sal

Ye olde swarm of links: thousands of links for writers, researchers and
the terminally curious <http://writers.internet-resources.com>

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 00:25:30 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

When the fuck did the most hated man on MW get the right to talk about
how the place has gone downhill?

Want to know how to perk the place up in an instant, cunt? Slit your
throat and get a trusted second to post the news on here. There'd be
partying like you wouldn't imagine.

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 00:53:29 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:30 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

When the fuck did the most hated man on MW get the right to talk about
how the place has gone downhill?
Want to know how to perk the place up in an instant, cunt? Slit your
throat and get a trusted second to post the news on here. There'd be
partying like you wouldn't imagine.

Alan, you're way behind the times now. You have that dubious honor
of being the most hated. I never had it.
--
Ray

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 01:30:29 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:30 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

When the fuck did the most hated man on MW get the right to talk about
how the place has gone downhill?
Want to know how to perk the place up in an instant, cunt? Slit your
throat and get a trusted second to post the news on here. There'd be
partying like you wouldn't imagine.

Alan, you're way behind the times now. You have that dubious honor
of being the most hated. I never had it.

Shall we take a show of hands on that question, scuzzball?

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

Ray Haddad

2007-11-17 01:38:06 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:30:29 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:30 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:45:41 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by RJM
Fuck them.

And the first of the self puffed MIGS shows up to explain why the
newsgroup has gone downhill. Leadership by example.

When the fuck did the most hated man on MW get the right to talk about
how the place has gone downhill?
Want to know how to perk the place up in an instant, cunt? Slit your
throat and get a trusted second to post the news on here. There'd be
partying like you wouldn't imagine.

Alan, you're way behind the times now. You have that dubious honor
of being the most hated. I never had it.

Shall we take a show of hands on that question, scuzzball?

Another puffed up idiot who fancies himself a MIGS shows up to spoil
the party.

Go away, Alan. You're unwelcome.
--
Ray

Josh Hill

2007-11-16 21:48:15 UTC

Post by PJ
< ... >

Well, thank you for your kind words, but I don't see mw ever returning to
what it used to be. I first joined the group in 1996 (1995 maybe?) and
popped in and out in the following years. When I came back in 2001, I didn't
even know the place anymore. A few of the originals were still around, but
very few. Lots of people left, new ones took their place, and the group
changed. I remember when Jack and Erin came back -- I was so glad to see
them because Jack is hilarious and I like him and Erin a lot. The problem
was, they didn't come back and say, "Hey guys, remember us? What's shakin'?"
They blew in like TNT and started wailing on everyone about what a train
wreck the place had become, and people reacted with anger as they would be
expected to. That's no way to initiate change. What the two of them did
caused as many slugfests as the people they were complaining about.
I look at it this way. If enough people wanted this group to change, it
would change. If they like it as it is, that's how it will stay.

Ah yes, the old days. When you could pick up a tip from TS Eliot or
exchange puns with James Joyce. When Nabokov could be heard discussing
butterflies, or Mailer and Hemingway the virtues of fine Scotch. Then
someone -- Sam Clemens? Scott Fitzgerald? -- called Ray a liar, and it
all vanished, pop, like a bubble of soap.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Josh Hill

2007-11-16 21:39:43 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:31:32 +0900, Ray Haddad

Post by Ray Haddad
To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in
the elementary school playground that misc.writing has become. To
give advice to someone else is considered presumptuous and the egos
immediately inflate; posturing, circling and readying themselves for
battle to the death. To discuss writing here is to do it at your own
peril. The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as
MIGS, tear apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those
who manage to survive.

You're a liar, Ray! Liar liar liar.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 00:21:24 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
It's probably more about the gigantic egos that breed here than
anything else, PJ. Everyone here has moments of doubt but for the
most part you can't find anyone here open enough to accept writing
advice, particularly not the regulars.

Depends where it's coming from. Not from you, for sure. When did you
ever post a single word about writing?

Post by Ray Haddad
It certainly wouldn't do to
post here that you had doubts. That would be fodder for the next
wave of - what are we calling it now - mockery?

Nonsense.

Post by Ray Haddad
To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in
the elementary school playground that misc.writing has become.

People who are genuine about writing have all done it. It's only the
fuck-ups and no-marks who have any trouble.

Post by Ray Haddad
To
give advice to someone else is considered presumptuous and the egos
immediately inflate; posturing, circling and readying themselves for
battle to the death. To discuss writing here is to do it at your own
peril.

How the fuck would you know?

Post by Ray Haddad
The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as
MIGS, tear apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those
who manage to survive.

Utter rubbish. Just because it happens to you doesn't mean it
necessarily happens to people who are not slimeball cunts.

Post by Ray Haddad
I wonder what their gang colors are.
You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your
knowledge without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you
and I salute your classy style. If anyone can return this place to
its former glory, it would be you. Steady on.

What a slimeball.

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

boots

2007-11-17 07:53:58 UTC

Post by Ray Haddad
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:56:31 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Post by SereneBabe
What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way to
maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing and the
writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has been tough.

It's probably more about the gigantic egos that breed here than
anything else, PJ. Everyone here has moments of doubt but for the
most part you can't find anyone here open enough to accept writing
advice, particularly not the regulars. It certainly wouldn't do to
post here that you had doubts. That would be fodder for the next
wave of - what are we calling it now - mockery?
To discuss shortcomings of your own writing is to admit weakness in
the elementary school playground that misc.writing has become. To
give advice to someone else is considered presumptuous and the egos
immediately inflate; posturing, circling and readying themselves for
battle to the death. To discuss writing here is to do it at your own
peril. The schoolyard bullies, who quaintly refer to themselves as
MIGS, tear apart the weak and form gangs to make their move on those
who manage to survive. I wonder what their gang colors are.
You are one of the few here who walk the walk, PJ. You've done it
(succeeded in a writing career) and you are willing to share your
knowledge without turning the process into a slugfest. I salute you
and I salute your classy style. If anyone can return this place to
its former glory, it would be you. Steady on.

"former glory"? I was here last century and don't remember it being
especially glorious. Maybe I blinked. Now it's gangbang Ray for
being a lying pusbag (isn't that the lame-de-jour?), then it was
gangbang Don May for being a homosexual. There may have been more
discussion but has the civility level on average really changed, has
it really devolved, or is it simply that there are fewer here rather
than off blogging about their latest life complaints?

All of life seems to be a playground, but perhaps that's my
untravelled ignorance speaking. Moderns are too stressed, it seems to
me. A trip to the city yesterday left me whizzed-past with prejudice,
staring openmouthed, and altogether glad to get back to the styx where
the problems can be touched and dealt with by wrench or hammer or just
moving a log, and the aches are in muscles instead of spirit.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Josh Hill

2007-11-16 21:37:35 UTC

Post by PJ
There's not much talk about writing here anymore. I think it's because
writing isn't a particularly sexy topic to discuss for very long and writing
posts die out pretty quickly. Or they morph into other sorts of discussions,
about things writers might talk about when they get together. Think of a
bunch of writers gathered together at a party ... how much of their
discussion would be on the craft of writing? I'm thinking not much, as they
would bore each other to tears.

Party? There's a party?

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 00:18:00 UTC

Post by SereneBabe
<snip>

Post by SereneBabe
Something needs to happen, and, yes, "writers write." I've been doing
my writing for other people so long, now, that I'm a bit at a loss
without a deadline.
What do you do? How do you stay with the work?

I don't have a choice -- writing is my career and if I don't "stay with
the work," I don't eat. Or pay the mortgage. Or buy Chardonnay. :-) You
just have to make your own deadlines, Heather. If you start thinking you
don't have deadlines, you're in trouble. Make a detailed schedule for
each day and stick to it.

how-can-I-think-what-I-have-to-say-is-so-f'n-special-that-others-would-take-time-to-read-it.

Post by SereneBabe
So, when I get motivated to return to my personal essays, I'm

awfully

Post by SereneBabe
embarrassed at the ego it requires.

All writers have struggles like that from time to time. But I've read your
stuff and you're a good writer. It sounds like you're doubting yourself, and
I believe all writers do that too. I once interviewed Dave Barry for a kids'
career book on writers -- and Heather, as incredible as he is, even he
struggles sometimes. Here's what he told me he says to kids when talking
about being a writer: "There's always pressure to come up with a brand new
idea and write things that keep people interested and then do it again, and
then again, and then again. People might think it's all fun, just dreaming
up some hilarious idea, writing about it, and then having everyone read it
and tell me how great I am. But it's much more involved than that." He also
said that there are many times when he doesn't feel funny, but he still has
to come up with funny stuff to write about. "I just keep at it and
eventually something appears."
Now, if a Pulitzer Prize winner has struggles, don't you think that you're
entitled? :-)

Totally relate. I have to write funny once every two weeks, and
sometimes I feel like opening an artery as an excuse to get out of it.
But like the man says, if you have to do it, it comes. It's what being
professional is. You think sometimes neurosurgeons don't go, Gawd if I
have to snip another friggin synapse!

Post by SereneBabe
What a treat to have constructive responses! I haven't yet found a way to
maneuver through misc.writing to find the posts discussing writing and the
writer's life. I suspect they're here, but finding them has been tough.

People in here now know each other too well. It's all been said. How
often do newcomers show their faces? Hardly ever, suggesting they're
doing what they oughtta and reading the group for a time first, then
scarpering for the fucking hills.

Post by SereneBabe
Thanks, again, for the responses! I hope more people respond, too.

You're very welcome.

She got her big start in here, you know. Just like you.

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 01:31:32 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:18:00 +0100, Alan Hope

Post by Alan Hope
Totally relate. I have to write funny once every two weeks, and
sometimes I feel like opening an artery as an excuse to get out of it.

Keep trying -- you'll do it eventually. (ducks)

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx

2007-11-16 15:38:49 UTC

Post by SereneBabe
<snip>

Actually substance and fine craft are much more important than the
"Geewhizz" . A reader trusts you to be worthy of the time they are
going to invest in what you give them to read. Their time is worth
much more than the money used to purchase the writing.

Post by SereneBabe
So, when I get motivated to return to my personal essays, I'm awfully
embarrassed at the ego it requires.

Don't be embarrassed by that! You would not be writing if not for your
ego. As a writer, you have the right to write anything you want.

Josh Hill

2007-11-16 21:51:20 UTC

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx
Don't be embarrassed by that! You would not be writing if not for your
ego. As a writer, you have the right to write anything you want.

We so do not write because of our ego.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx

2007-11-16 22:03:56 UTC

Post by Josh Hill

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx
Don't be embarrassed by that! You would not be writing if not for your
ego. As a writer, you have the right to write anything you want.

We so do not write because of our ego.
--
Josh

Where's that from? It sounds familliar.

"We so do not write because of our ego."

Or

"We so do not write, because of our ego."

Works either way.

2007-11-16 22:12:14 UTC

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx

Post by Josh Hill

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx
Don't be embarrassed by that! You would not be writing if not for your
ego. As a writer, you have the right to write anything you want.

We so do not write because of our ego.

Where's that from? It sounds familliar.
"We so do not write because of our ego."
Or
"We so do not write, because of our ego."
Works either way.

Our ego? Like, so. We write.

~ ~ ~
PJ

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 01:34:38 UTC

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx

Post by Josh Hill

Post by ***@smurfsareus.xxx
Don't be embarrassed by that! You would not be writing if not for your
ego. As a writer, you have the right to write anything you want.

We so do not write because of our ego.
--
Josh

Where's that from? It sounds familliar.
"We so do not write because of our ego."
Or
"We so do not write, because of our ego."
Works either way.

Me?

The "so's" from Gekko. Slumming, I know, but it's not like Pynchon's
around.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 00:08:10 UTC

They're here if someone asks a question as you did. Otherwise not. The
place is made of either fools who don't know anything and wouldn't
listen in any case, or a few who do know but can't be bothered saying
the same thing for the umpteenth time just to have some dunderhead
piss on it.

I'm with Peej. When you live off your writing the idea of having a
block never seems to arise. If you don't have deadlines imposed upon
you, you need to make your own. However you do it is a matter for
experiment. Use Google Calendar to send you reminders. Get some
Remember The Milk scheme going on. Definitely get a blog and subscribe
to your own RSS feed, so you're constantly aware of the fact that
there's nothing new coming out. There's no shortage of ways in which
you can put pressure on yourself.

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

2007-11-17 00:17:53 UTC

Post by Alan Hope
I'm with Peej.

I so live for those words. Especially from you, big boy.

~ ~ ~
Peej

http://pjs-place.blogspot.com

RJM

2007-11-17 09:45:14 UTC

Post by Alan Hope
I'm with Peej.

I so live for those words. Especially from you, big boy.

Slut.

2007-11-17 12:51:54 UTC

Post by Alan Hope
I'm with Peej.

I so live for those words. Especially from you, big boy.

Slut.

Boy whore.

~ ~ ~
PJ

$Zero

2007-11-17 00:25:57 UTC

translation: "Skip Press is published. heed his genius advice."

-$Zero...

"i'm saying that IF 3 + 3 = 5 AND 2 + 2 = 3 + 3 AND 3 > 2
then well, what i'm saying is that there's a perfectly logical
mathematical reason for all of that. and because of that logical
reason, 2 + 2 = 5 under those conditions."

Alan Hope

2007-11-17 01:31:44 UTC

Post by $Zero

translation: "Skip Press is published. heed his genius advice."

Why are you picking on him? Oh, I get it.

When did you ever have a single word of good advice on any subject?
Hmm, let me think ...

--
AH
http://grapes2dot0.blogspot.com

$Zero

2007-11-17 01:42:36 UTC

translation: "Skip Press is published. �heed his genius advice."

Why are you picking on him?

i was picking on you, genius.

Post by Alan Hope
Oh, I get it.

one hopes so.

Post by Alan Hope
When did you ever have a single word of good advice on any subject?

whenever i've given any.

Post by Alan Hope
Hmm, let me think ...

Alan, why bother yourself thinking when your employer will do it for
you?

cha' ching!

now go cash your paycheck like a good little kissass.

-$Zero...

"i'm saying that IF 3 + 3 = 5 AND 2 + 2 = 3 + 3 AND 3 > 2
then well, what i'm saying is that there's a perfectly logical
mathematical reason for all of that. and because of that logical
reason, 2 + 2 = 5 under those conditions."

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 01:27:56 UTC

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:08:10 +0100, Alan Hope

Post by Alan Hope
There's no shortage of ways in which
you can put pressure on yourself.

No, but women are more fun.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

boots

2007-11-17 08:28:06 UTC

Post by Josh Hill
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:08:10 +0100, Alan Hope

Post by Alan Hope
There's no shortage of ways in which
you can put pressure on yourself.

No, but women are more fun.

Apparently some people can only write when forced to it. Perhaps that
is true, or perhaps it is only believed because they have never lived
without pressure. If pressure works for them, grand.

If one is really a writer at the core, one will write.

Publication is a separate question, some need to be published in order
to receive approval, money or praise, others need only to write
because for them it is the process that is important, not what it may
bring from others.

--
The sane answer, to madness, is insanity.

Josh Hill

2007-11-17 17:17:16 UTC

Post by Josh Hill
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:08:10 +0100, Alan Hope

Post by Alan Hope
There's no shortage of ways in which
you can put pressure on yourself.

No, but women are more fun.

Apparently some people can only write when forced to it. Perhaps that
is true, or perhaps it is only believed because they have never lived
without pressure. If pressure works for them, grand.
If one is really a writer at the core, one will write.
Publication is a separate question, some need to be published in order
to receive approval, money or praise, others need only to write
because for them it is the process that is important, not what it may
bring from others.

I'm all in favor of publication myself. Among its advantages: your
work has to be minimally not bad enough to sell, and writing for
oneself alone seems to me a form of masturbation. Not that there's
anything wrong with masturbation, it doesn't get all hissy and
demanding like Gekko, but writing masturbation doesn't satisfy me
personally any more than being a hermit and finding the meaning of
life in the depths of my small intestine would.

I'm all opposed to publication when you're just writing OK crap that
the world really doesn't need more of, like the poems and stories
published by MFA types in journals that have more contributors than
subscribers. That's why I usually turned down requests to publish my
own clumsy attempts at poetry. I mean, people liked it, but it warn't
hardly Blake: it was just stuff I was writing for fun on a newsfroup.
But to each his own. Some people like receiving awards from the people
they give awards. Some people like earning half a million dollars a
year for writing sitcoms, for which I can't blame them, because it's
good money and a lot more fun than selling stocks and bonds. Some
people want fame because like the beginning drug user they don't
understand the harm it does. If I ever get around to finishing my
novel, I'll want to have it published, and that won't have anything to
do with whether it equals Moby Dick.

--
Josh

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals.
We know now that it is bad economics." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Bill Penrose

2007-11-15 23:39:50 UTC

Post by SereneBabe
What do you do? How do you stay with the work?

I don't have deadlines, but I write every day, unless I'm editing, and
I try to get in at least two hours a day. Not writing makes my back
itch.

Dangerous Bill

$Zero

2007-11-16 00:45:23 UTC