OT: Some Facts About Leaving Afghanistan

Post by Jonathan
Oct 11, 2020
Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a
phone interview
"We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election
because he has proved himself a politician who accomplished
all the major promises he had made to American people, although
he might have missed some small things, but did accomplish
the bigger promises, so it is possible that the U.S. people
who experienced deceptions in the past will once again
trust Trump for his decisive actions."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

John Savard

Dorothy J Heydt

2021-08-17 17:22:32 UTC

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

So,

(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?

(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

J. Clarke

2021-08-17 17:51:10 UTC

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

So,
(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?
(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

This is one area where the Taliban might not be all bad. They are
requiring half the population to wear masks after all. Incidentally,
early in the pandemic, when masks were hard to come by and even
elastic to make them was scarce, I got a couple of shemaghs (the real
deal, made in Palestine by Arabs) and found them comfortable and
apparently efficacious (I did not as far as I know get COVID, although
I did get _something_ rather nasty right around that time that leaves
me wondering).

Andrew McDowell

2021-08-17 18:01:31 UTC

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

So,
(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?
(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

The Taliban are one of the few groups to have real grounds to be suspicious of vaccination (thanks to the CIA collecting intelligence under this cover). Afghanistan is going to be a really good example of why we cannot hope to wipe out covid.

ObSF - the middle of the song of the Line Marines from Falkenberg's Legion

The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
The orders come down from on high.
It's 'on full kits' and 'sound board ships',
We're sending you where you can die.
The lands that we take, the Senate gives back,
rather more often than not.

(Is that the influence of Vietnam? I can't imagine that Pournelle got it from any Imperialist model)

Lynn McGuire

2021-08-17 18:57:44 UTC

Post by Andrew McDowell

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

So,
(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?
(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

The Taliban are one of the few groups to have real grounds to be suspicious of vaccination (thanks to the CIA collecting intelligence under this cover). Afghanistan is going to be a really good example of why we cannot hope to wipe out covid.
ObSF - the middle of the song of the Line Marines from Falkenberg's Legion
The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
The orders come down from on high.
It's 'on full kits' and 'sound board ships',
We're sending you where you can die.
The lands that we take, the Senate gives back,
rather more often than not.
(Is that the influence of Vietnam? I can't imagine that Pournelle got it from any Imperialist model)

Jerry Pournelle was a Korean War era veteran of the USA Army. Officer
in the Artillery if I remember correctly.

Lynn

J. Clarke

2021-08-17 21:17:09 UTC

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:57:44 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Andrew McDowell

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of the
small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out the
population of the U.S..

So,
(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?
(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

The Taliban are one of the few groups to have real grounds to be suspicious of vaccination (thanks to the CIA collecting intelligence under this cover). Afghanistan is going to be a really good example of why we cannot hope to wipe out covid.
ObSF - the middle of the song of the Line Marines from Falkenberg's Legion
The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
The orders come down from on high.
It's 'on full kits' and 'sound board ships',
We're sending you where you can die.
The lands that we take, the Senate gives back,
rather more often than not.
(Is that the influence of Vietnam? I can't imagine that Pournelle got it from any Imperialist model)

Jerry Pournelle was a Korean War era veteran of the USA Army. Officer
in the Artillery if I remember correctly.

One of these days the President is going to order the Army go into
some godforsaken place for no good reason and I woulds like to see
them tell him "Sir, we are not going to go into some godforsaken place
and kill a bunch of people who have never done anything to us only to
be told 20 years down the road 'oops'. Do you absolutely guarantee
that that will not happen this time? May we shoot you and your family
if that promise is not kept?"

Quadibloc

2021-08-17 22:05:16 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
One of these days the President is going to order the Army go into
some godforsaken place for no good reason and I woulds like to see
them tell him "Sir, we are not going to go into some godforsaken place
and kill a bunch of people who have never done anything to us only to
be told 20 years down the road 'oops'. Do you absolutely guarantee
that that will not happen this time? May we shoot you and your family
if that promise is not kept?"

I can understand your emotional reaction.

But it is based on a number of false premises.

1) "A bunch of people who have never done anything to us"

In the case of the Taliban, what they did to America was shield Osama bin Laden
from justice, and Osama bin Laden certainly _did_ do something to you Americans,
as I think you still remember.

In the case of Vietnam - and Korea - there _was_ the Cold War.

But the whole idea of "done anything to _us_" is flawed. Done anything to *any
innocent victim* is the correct standard.

"Verily, I say unto thee: Whatsoever thou doest unto the least of My brethren, thou
hast done unto Me." - Matthew 25:40

So going to Vietnam to protect the people of Vietnam from Communist invasion
was a good idea. Subverting South Vietnam's democratic government to get a
more pliable military regime, or My Lai, not so much.

2) The term of office of the President of the United States of America is four years.

As well, the Twenty-Second Amendment to the United States Constitution prevents
a President from serving more than two terms.

However, in any case, I have good news for you.

It will not be necessary for the armed forces of the United States to mutiny
(hey, why just stop at killing innocent members of a President's family? Why
not become the government, as in so many other banana republics? I mean,
what with global warming, you might even be able to *grow* bananas in Florida
and California, where oranges grow now...) to accomplish your end.

The voters of the United States, whose sons (and, to some extent, daughters)
fight and die on foreign lands are *also* losing their patience with this sort of
thing.

So I suspect the United States government is going to think long and hard before
sending troops into some obscure and unfortunate corner of the world (but, were
there a God, Who loves *all* innocent thinking beings, no part of the world would be
forsaken by Him) in the future.

For the most part, this _is_ a good thing.

However, a retreat by the United States from actively ensuring the security of liberty
on a global basis has obvious potential bad consequences. If you lived in Israel,
Taiwan, or South Korea, I wouldn't have to explain them to you.

John Savard

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2021-08-17 22:12:01 UTC

On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 3:17:13 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke
One of these days the President is going to order the Army go
into some godforsaken place for no good reason and I woulds
like to see them tell him "Sir, we are not going to go into
some godforsaken place and kill a bunch of people who have
never done anything to us only to be told 20 years down the
road 'oops'. Do you absolutely guarantee that that will not
happen this time? May we shoot you and your family if that
promise is not kept?"

I wouldn't bet that he does, actually.

In the case of Vietnam - and Korea - there _was_ the Cold War.
But the whole idea of "done anything to _us_" is flawed. Done
anything to *any innocent victim* is the correct standard.
"Verily, I say unto thee: Whatsoever thou doest unto the least
of My brethren, thou hast done unto Me." - Matthew 25:40
So going to Vietnam to protect the people of Vietnam from
Communist invasion was a good idea. Subverting South Vietnam's
democratic government to get a more pliable military regime, or
My Lai, not so much.
2) The term of office of the President of the United States of
America is four years.
As well, the Twenty-Second Amendment to the United States
Constitution prevents a President from serving more than two
terms.
However, in any case, I have good news for you.
It will not be necessary for the armed forces of the United
States to mutiny (hey, why just stop at killing innocent members
of a President's family? Why not become the government, as in so
many other banana republics? I mean, what with global warming,
you might even be able to *grow* bananas in Florida and
California, where oranges grow now...) to accomplish your end.
The voters of the United States, whose sons (and, to some
extent, daughters) fight and die on foreign lands are *also*
losing their patience with this sort of thing.
So I suspect the United States government is going to think long
and hard before sending troops into some obscure and unfortunate
corner of the world (but, were there a God, Who loves *all*
innocent thinking beings, no part of the world would be forsaken
by Him) in the future.
For the most part, this _is_ a good thing.
However, a retreat by the United States from actively ensuring
the security of liberty on a global basis has obvious potential
bad consequences. If you lived in Israel, Taiwan, or South
Korea, I wouldn't have to explain them to you.

And there it is, another sign that Hell is freezing over.

Quaddie is the rational one.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

J. Clarke

2021-08-18 00:10:03 UTC

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 15:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

And how many Aghanis who were not the Taliban got killed in that war?

Post by Quadibloc
In the case of Vietnam - and Korea - there _was_ the Cold War.

In Vietnam the French were trying to preserve a colony and couldn't so
somehow the US got sucked into trying to preserve it even though we
didn't want it.

And at the end it was "oops" and the Communists got it anyway. Would
have done my heart good to see the Kennedies and Johnsons lined up
against a wall.

Post by Quadibloc
But the whole idea of "done anything to _us_" is flawed. Done anything to *any
innocent victim* is the correct standard.

Not our job to solve other countries problems.

Post by Quadibloc
"Verily, I say unto thee: Whatsoever thou doest unto the least of My brethren, thou
hast done unto Me." - Matthew 25:40
So going to Vietnam to protect the people of Vietnam from Communist invasion
was a good idea. Subverting South Vietnam's democratic government to get a
more pliable military regime, or My Lai, not so much.

You mean being in Vietnam to resist the Vietnamese trying to take back
their country from the European colonizers.

Post by Quadibloc
2) The term of office of the President of the United States of America is four years.

So? The one who got us into it is the one who needs to be punished,
not the ones who had to try as best the could to clean up his mess.

Post by Quadibloc
As well, the Twenty-Second Amendment to the United States Constitution prevents
a President from serving more than two terms.

So what? In an ideal world a President who sends American troops to
bully some tiny little country that doesn't want us there and did not
commit an act of agression against us should not finish the term in
which he did that.

Post by Quadibloc
However, in any case, I have good news for you.
It will not be necessary for the armed forces of the United States to mutiny
(hey, why just stop at killing innocent members of a President's family? Why
not become the government, as in so many other banana republics? I mean,
what with global warming, you might even be able to *grow* bananas in Florida
and California, where oranges grow now...) to accomplish your end.

He's not the President when they kill the bastard.

Post by Quadibloc
The voters of the United States, whose sons (and, to some extent, daughters)
fight and die on foreign lands are *also* losing their patience with this sort of
thing.

But they don't have a means of stopping it.

Post by Quadibloc
So I suspect the United States government is going to think long and hard before
sending troops into some obscure and unfortunate corner of the world (but, were
there a God, Who loves *all* innocent thinking beings, no part of the world would be
forsaken by Him) in the future.

You are assuming that an elected official is capable of thought.

Post by Quadibloc
For the most part, this _is_ a good thing.
However, a retreat by the United States from actively ensuring the security of liberty
on a global basis has obvious potential bad consequences. If you lived in Israel,
Taiwan, or South Korea, I wouldn't have to explain them to you.

If the US is the only ally that Israel, Taiwan, and South Korea have
then they deserve whatever happens to them. And if the South Koreans,
with an economy 100 times that of North Korea, can't hammer them to
slag in short order, they've got something wrong with them.

The world got along just fine without the US policing it, and our
style of policing the world is no better than our style of policing
ourselves.

Quadibloc

2021-08-18 00:27:44 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 15:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc
The voters of the United States, whose sons (and, to some extent, daughters)
fight and die on foreign lands are *also* losing their patience with this sort of
thing.

But they don't have a means of stopping it.

It's true they haven't _had_ a means of doing so, back when the Cold War had
rock-solid bipartisan support. However, as Trump getting elected proved, the
people of the U.S. are able to bring about radical political change through the
ballot box, should they be determined to do so.

Post by J. Clarke
If the US is the only ally that Israel, Taiwan, and South Korea have
then they deserve whatever happens to them. And if the South Koreans,
with an economy 100 times that of North Korea, can't hammer them to
slag in short order, they've got something wrong with them.

The previous Korean War went along quite well for a time, until
China intervened. China has the Bomb, South Korea doesn't. The
implications of this distinction seem not to be apparent to you.

Post by J. Clarke
The world got along just fine without the US policing it, and our
style of policing the world is no better than our style of policing
ourselves.

The world did get along just fine, for a certain value of "fine",
before 1914. However, we are not now living in that era.

John Savard

J. Clarke

2021-08-18 06:04:55 UTC

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:27:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 15:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc
The voters of the United States, whose sons (and, to some extent, daughters)
fight and die on foreign lands are *also* losing their patience with this sort of
thing.

But they don't have a means of stopping it.

If you call electing someone who makes Hammy the Squirrel look like
the epitome of sweet reason "radical political change". In point of
fact nothing about US politics changed.

The previous Korean War went along quite well for a time, until
China intervened. China has the Bomb, South Korea doesn't. The
implications of this distinction seem not to be apparent to you.

If South Korea doesn't have the bomb and needs it that's on them. If
North Korea can do it, South Korea, with a vastly larger economy and a
real technological base, should have little trouble doing it.

Post by J. Clarke
The world got along just fine without the US policing it, and our
style of policing the world is no better than our style of policing
ourselves.

The world did get along just fine, for a certain value of "fine",
before 1914. However, we are not now living in that era.

Not our problem. If Europe burns because the Europeans are too cheap
to defend themselves, to Hell with them. Ditto Asia.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2021-08-17 22:09:48 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:57:44 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 6:51:15 PM UTC+1, J. Clarke

On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-6, Jonathan

Post by Jonathan
Oct 11, 2020
Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a
phone interview
"We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming
election because he has proved himself a politician who
accomplished all the major promises he had made to
American people, although he might have missed some small
things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is
possible that the U.S. people who experienced deceptions
in the past will once again trust Trump for his decisive
actions."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-wil
l-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

Post by Jonathan
Did Trump write the above endorsement for the Taliban?

No doubt the Taliban would have been overjoyed if one of
the small things Trump missed - the coronavirus - wiped out
the population of the U.S..

So,
(a) What is the incidence of COVID infections/deaths in
Afghanistan at present?
(b) What's it going to be like six months from now?

This is one area where the Taliban might not be all bad. They
are requiring half the population to wear masks after all.
Incidentally, early in the pandemic, when masks were hard to
come by and even elastic to make them was scarce, I got a
couple of shemaghs (the real deal, made in Palestine by
Arabs) and found them comfortable and apparently efficacious
(I did not as far as I know get COVID, although I did get
_something_ rather nasty right around that time that leaves
me wondering).

The Taliban are one of the few groups to have real grounds to
be suspicious of vaccination (thanks to the CIA collecting
intelligence under this cover). Afghanistan is going to be a
really good example of why we cannot hope to wipe out covid.
ObSF - the middle of the song of the Line Marines from
Falkenberg's Legion
The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
The orders come down from on high.
It's 'on full kits' and 'sound board ships',
We're sending you where you can die.
The lands that we take, the Senate gives back,
rather more often than not.
(Is that the influence of Vietnam? I can't imagine that
Pournelle got it from any Imperialist model)

Jerry Pournelle was a Korean War era veteran of the USA Army.
Officer in the Artillery if I remember correctly.

One of these days the President is going to order the Army go
into some godforsaken place for no good reason and I woulds like
to see them tell him "Sir, we are not going to go into some
godforsaken place and kill a bunch of people who have never done
anything to us only to be told 20 years down the road 'oops'.
Do you absolutely guarantee that that will not happen this time?
May we shoot you and your family if that promise is not kept?"

You do seem very fond of treason, yes. Very, very fond.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Lawrence Watt-Evans

2021-08-17 21:23:57 UTC

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:57:44 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Andrew McDowell