Broken Britain Part 3548: The Boomers

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

You know times are getting crazy when a Tory turns on the Boomers:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/05/target-wealthy-baby-boomers-says-tory-peer

About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

[Roger Hayter]

Stephen Thomas Cole <***@stephenthomascole.com> wrote:
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.

[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.

[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

PS This seems to be the Tories trying to take back the council house
sales bribe they gave us in the 80s. But still no council houses, just
fewer house owners, and more buy-to-let landlords.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

PS This seems to be the Tories trying to take back the council house
sales bribe they gave us in the 80s. But still no council houses, just
fewer house owners, and more buy-to-let landlords.

social housing is a mistake .....

[Spike]

Post by Roger Hayter
I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

It's amazing what fear can be generated by piling supposition upon
supposition.

It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children’s generation being forced to stomach a
15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").

Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Spike

Post by Roger Hayter
I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

It's amazing what fear can be generated by piling supposition upon
supposition.
It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children’s generation being forced to stomach a
15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").
Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.

Very emotive, Burt, but who gives a fuck about their future when the
present is so shit?

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Roger Hayter
I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

It's amazing what fear can be generated by piling supposition upon
supposition.
It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children’s generation being forced to stomach a
15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").
Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.

Very emotive, Burt, but who gives a fuck about their future when the
present is so shit?

If that is your attitude then it is no wonder you expect everything on a
plate.

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike
It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children’s generation being forced to
stomach a15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").
Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.

Very emotive, Burt, but who gives a fuck about their future when the
present is so shit?

If that is your attitude then it is no wonder you expect everything on a
plate.

Perhaps a 13-year span of Labour governments, which period included
setting the Middle East on fire just to boost one man's ego, just might
have contributed to the 'shit present' of which CB/M0TEY is complaining.
The financial mismanagement of the same governments didn't help either,
to put it mildly. Ask CB/M0TEY what he's doing to improve matters.

But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Brian Morrison]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

That is why Corbyn is so popular with the young- he offers them 'easy
solutions' and they don't remember the problems that followed the last
time these easy solutions were tried.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

That is why Corbyn is so popular with the young- he offers them 'easy
solutions' and they don't remember the problems that followed the last
time these easy solutions were tried.

Brian, and all other right-wing Boomers reading this, go look up Harry
Leslie Smith. He's from the generation before you, the actual generation
that made the unimaginable sacrifices that your generation is so fond of
claiming credit for, and has a lot to say about the way the world was and
the way it is now. I know you lot have got no humility whatsoever, but it
doesn't hurt to point you in the direction of enlightenment.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

That is why Corbyn is so popular with the young- he offers them 'easy
solutions' and they don't remember the problems that followed the last
time these easy solutions were tried.

Brian, and all other right-wing Boomers reading this, go look up Harry
Leslie Smith. He's from the generation before you, the actual generation
that made the unimaginable sacrifices that your generation is so fond of
claiming credit for, and has a lot to say about the way the world was and
the way it is now. I know you lot have got no humility whatsoever, but it
doesn't hurt to point you in the direction of enlightenment.

You are doing a Rambo, no one referred to making 'unimaginable
sacrifices' just to grafting.

Unless, of course the idea of your having to graft is unimaginable to you.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

That is why Corbyn is so popular with the young- he offers them 'easy
solutions' and they don't remember the problems that followed the last
time these easy solutions were tried.

Brian, and all other right-wing Boomers reading this, go look up Harry
Leslie Smith. He's from the generation before you, the actual generation
that made the unimaginable sacrifices that your generation is so fond of
claiming credit for, and has a lot to say about the way the world was and
the way it is now. I know you lot have got no humility whatsoever, but it
doesn't hurt to point you in the direction of enlightenment.

You are doing a Rambo, no one referred to making 'unimaginable
sacrifices' just to grafting.
Unless, of course the idea of your having to graft is unimaginable to you.

Brian, where in the quoted subthread did anybody mention "grafting"?

Also, have you seen the latest from Lord Adonis regarding a 2nd referendum
being legally required? Apparently, the Tories are well aware and have been
trying to repeal the legislation on the quiet, and that's not looking
likely... LOL!

Here's a very detailed analysis of the issue from a couple of years back:

https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/business-law-blog/blog/2016/07/new-referendum-constitutional-requirement

[mm0fmf]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.

You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

[Spike]

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.

We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Brian Reay]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

How can you possibly refer to "today's snowflakes" while in the same
paragraph giving priority to watching TV?

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just
repeat the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to
bury my grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher
government, handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

How can you possibly refer to "today's snowflakes" while in the same
paragraph giving priority to watching TV?

Whatever are you babbling about? Do you know what happens when the
electricity goes off?

Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

[AndyW]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

For some the evidence of quality is the number of viewers that these
show pulled in but when there are only 3 channels then having a third of
the viewing population watching is not as hard as when there are 100+
channels.


Andy

[Spike]

Post by AndyW

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion!  It's not mine, for instance.

For some the evidence of quality is the number of viewers that these
show pulled in but when there are only 3 channels then having a third of
the viewing population watching is not as hard as when there are 100+
channels.

Although rather before Labour's Winter of Discontent, the greatest
social gaffe one could make in the early 60s was to phone someone while
Maigret was on.

I see the BBC are getting exercised at the amount of streaming TV that
people watch, largely because it isn't BBC programmes they are watching,
which might cause those people to ask why they are paying a licence fee.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago
entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

For some the evidence of quality is the number of viewers that these show
pulled in but when there are only 3 channels then having a third of the
viewing population watching is not as hard as when there are 100+
channels.

Although rather before Labour's Winter of Discontent, the greatest social
gaffe one could make in the early 60s was to phone someone while Maigret
was on.
I see the BBC are getting exercised at the amount of streaming TV that
people watch, largely because it isn't BBC programmes they are watching,
which might cause those people to ask why they are paying a licence fee.

I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min adverts in the
hour ......

[Spike]

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago
entertainment opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

For some the evidence of quality is the number of viewers that these show
pulled in but when there are only 3 channels then having a third of the
viewing population watching is not as hard as when there are 100+
channels.

Although rather before Labour's Winter of Discontent, the greatest social
gaffe one could make in the early 60s was to phone someone while Maigret
was on.
I see the BBC are getting exercised at the amount of streaming TV that
people watch, largely because it isn't BBC programmes they are watching,
which might cause those people to ask why they are paying a licence fee.

I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min adverts in the
hour ......

No ads on Netflix or Amazon....
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago
entertainment opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some
might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

For some the evidence of quality is the number of viewers that these show
pulled in but when there are only 3 channels then having a third of the
viewing population watching is not as hard as when there are 100+
channels.

Although rather before Labour's Winter of Discontent, the greatest social
gaffe one could make in the early 60s was to phone someone while Maigret
was on.
I see the BBC are getting exercised at the amount of streaming TV that
people watch, largely because it isn't BBC programmes they are watching,
which might cause those people to ask why they are paying a licence fee.

I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min adverts in the
hour ......

No ads on Netflix or Amazon....

costs money

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min adverts
in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without shouting
and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without shouting
and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

Oh, the irony.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without shouting
and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

Are you saying that because it is a publicly funded business it should
ignore the private sector standards of confident self-advertisement, or
do you just not like the BBC? If the former, then to some extent I
agree. It is unbecoming.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without shouting
and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

Are you saying that because it is a publicly funded business it should
ignore the private sector standards of confident self-advertisement, or
do you just not like the BBC? If the former, then to some extent I
agree. It is unbecoming.

It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

[Brian Morrison]

On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?

I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

[mm0fmf]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

WHS

[Bernie]

On Thu, 08 Mar 2018 20:34:50 +0000

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

WHS

I find seeking division points unhelpful, at best.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Bernie
On Thu, 08 Mar 2018 20:34:50 +0000

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

WHS

I find seeking division points unhelpful, at best.

Errr... but you've been trolling G, Burt, Rich, etc for at least the last
few years.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Bernie
On Thu, 08 Mar 2018 20:34:50 +0000

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

WHS

I find seeking division points unhelpful, at best.

Errr... but you've been trolling G, Burt, Rich, etc for at least the last
few years.

It is a common ploy of supporters of the status quo, essentially a
conservative position, to describe any attempt to raise any political
issues as "divisive"; by which they mean tending to divide our side
from being charge.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Bernie
On Thu, 08 Mar 2018 20:34:50 +0000

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

WHS

I find seeking division points unhelpful, at best.

That is, however, what the left rely on to further their cause.

A prime example is the 1944 Education Act- which probably contributed
more to social change/mobility in the UK than all the ranting of the
left since Karl Marx. It is also known as the Butler Act. Butler was a
Conservative.

Plus, like Spike, they are adept at 'revising history'. Labour
'snatched' milk from more school children than the Conservatives.

At one time, all pupils got milk, 5-18.

The Conservatives only stopped those between 7-11 getting milk. (Junior
schools)

Labour stopped the rest (infant and senior schools).

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Bernie
I find seeking division points unhelpful, at best.

That is, however, what the left rely on to further their cause.
A prime example is the 1944 Education Act- which probably contributed
more to social change/mobility in the UK than all the ranting of the
left since Karl Marx. It is also known as the Butler Act. Butler was a
Conservative.

The elephant in the room here that you chose to overlook, is that the
government in 1944 was a coalition, and it was the government that
brought in the Act.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Brian Reay]

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I was
considering where I thought I'd be.

I was in the SW as well.

[Paul Cummins]

Post by mm0fmf
I did it and was amazed to find how far down in the SW quadrant I

was considering where I thought I'd be.
I was in the SW as well.

I was shocked to find myself in the SW, I expected to be in the SE.

Apparently my views on the free market are left-wing.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result, so forgive me for regarding this
"test" as an absolute joke.

Post by Brian Morrison
A 'Tory' I'm not, but I do notice that people who call Conservatives
'Tories' are often quite closed-minded. Or very closed-minded.

Conservatives call themselves "Tories", OM.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result,

Which is hardly a surprise.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
so forgive me for regarding this
"test" as an absolute joke.

That is due to your inability to look beyond your prejudices.


For example, you confuse expecting those who can work to do so as being
uncaring- totally ignoring that if they don't it simply isn't possible
to help those who can't work due to, for example, medical reasons,
disability etc.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result,

Which is hardly a surprise.

It's not a surprise that you got a similar result to BriMo, given your
shared Toryism, but it does suggest that the test that places you in the
Left/Anarchist quadrant, when your politics are well-known to be far right
of Genghis Khan's, is a sham.

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
so forgive me for regarding this
"test" as an absolute joke.

That is due to your inability to look beyond your prejudices.
For example, you confuse expecting those who can work to do so as being
uncaring- totally ignoring that if they don't it simply isn't possible
to help those who can't work due to, for example, medical reasons,
disability etc.

I'm pleased to see your support for the proposal to send pensioners into
the fields picking fruit and vegetables post-Brexit, Brian. I agree with
you that it's about time they started earning their benefits and, after
all, it was their votes that brought about the agricultural labour
shortage.

Also, absolutely *massive* swing to Labour in the Rochester West
by-election yesterday. When we're winning the safest of safe Tory seats
with nigh-on 50% of the vote, change is coming.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result,

Which is hardly a surprise.

It's not a surprise that you got a similar result to BriMo, given your
shared Toryism, but it does suggest that the test that places you in the
Left/Anarchist quadrant, when your politics are well-known to be far right
of Genghis Khan's, is a sham.

So supporting the NHS, free education, a fair welfare state, and
expecting people to work if the can places someone to the right of
Genghis Khan.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result,

Which is hardly a surprise.

It's not a surprise that you got a similar result to BriMo, given your
shared Toryism, but it does suggest that the test that places you in the
Left/Anarchist quadrant, when your politics are well-known to be far right
of Genghis Khan's, is a sham.

So supporting the NHS, free education, a fair welfare state, and
expecting people to work if the can places someone to the right of
Genghis Khan.

Your thoughts on penal policy are probably a tad more gory than those of
Genghis Khan, not least because he probably wanted a few thugs in his
army.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 8 Mar 2018 17:02:11 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
It's just Brian's standard knee-jerk Toryism, tbh.

Ever been to https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Steve?
I did their test and it put me somewhere SW of the Dalai Lama.

Brian Reay says he got the same result,

Which is hardly a surprise.

It's not a surprise that you got a similar result to BriMo, given your
shared Toryism, but it does suggest that the test that places you in the
Left/Anarchist quadrant, when your politics are well-known to be far right
of Genghis Khan's, is a sham.

So supporting the NHS, free education, a fair welfare state, and
expecting people to work if the can places someone to the right of
Genghis Khan.

I do think that your support on sending pensioners out to earn their
benefits is good and progressive.

[Brian Morrison]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 16:36:58 +0000

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without
shouting and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

Are you saying that because it is a publicly funded business it should
ignore the private sector standards of confident self-advertisement,
or do you just not like the BBC? If the former, then to some extent
I agree. It is unbecoming.

I don't see why it needs to advertise itself so often and so smarmingly.

I don't particularly mind the BBC, although I can't for one moment
understand why they only advertise in the Guardian. Guaranteed way of
biasing your thinking I would say.

I do enjoy Andrew Neil on the politics programmes he does, it's really
excellent seeing all the incompetents being roasted without any care as
to whether they are from the right or the left.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 16:36:58 +0000

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without
shouting and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

Are you saying that because it is a publicly funded business it should
ignore the private sector standards of confident self-advertisement,
or do you just not like the BBC? If the former, then to some extent
I agree. It is unbecoming.

I don't see why it needs to advertise itself so often and so smarmingly.
I don't particularly mind the BBC, although I can't for one moment
understand why they only advertise in the Guardian. Guaranteed way of
biasing your thinking I would say.
I do enjoy Andrew Neil on the politics programmes he does, it's really
excellent seeing all the incompetents being roasted without any care as
to whether they are from the right or the left.

Then we really agree. Though some advertising of programmes just for
information may be useful. I don't think you can rely on any news
organisation for absolute objectivity, especially about what is worth
reporting; in fact I don't think there is such a thing as complete
neutrality and objectivity. But I do think that the BBC is one of the
better news organisations.

DAB is rubbish though, at least coverage-wise for those of us with no
mobile and little broadband anyway.

[Spike]

Post by Roger Hayter
I don't think you can rely on any news
organisation for absolute objectivity, especially about what is worth
reporting; in fact I don't think there is such a thing as complete
neutrality and objectivity. But I do think that the BBC is one of the
better news organisations.

A tiny snippet in one of the Beeb's adverts - it may have been for a
computing programme - said that news items are now chosen by an
algorithm. These, of course, can be written to produce whatever slant
you wish on the news you want either to portray or to bury - such an
algorithm might be responsible for the almost compulsory Africa slot at
around 18 minutes or so into the evening 'news'. Much of the BBC's news
is actually more in the style of a magazine than a series of current
items, and much of national interest if not importance is conveniently
buried in their local news.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Spike]

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without shouting
and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

The Hard Sun serial showed the Beeb in its true colours.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Bernie]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 21:02:32 +0000

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:40:17 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 08:57:16 -0000

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...
I pay the Licence fee because I can no longer tolerate 20 min
adverts in the hour ......

Although the Beeb is very good at advertising itself...

But generally less stridently; and. particularly, without
shouting and turning the audio compression up to 11.

Maybe so, but it's still incredibly annoying and far too smug for my
liking.

The Hard Sun serial showed the Beeb in its true colours.

I haven't seen the serial in question, Burt, but I'll guess: are you
saying the climate change isn't happening, Burt?

[mm0fmf]

Post by Spike
why they are paying a licence fee.

To pay for R4, The Archers, Today etc.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Spike
Hint: it somewhat restricts your choices, and 40 years ago entertainment
opportunities were rather more limited than today. Some might say that
TV programming was much better in those days.

That has to be a matter of opinion! It's not mine, for instance.

what man from uncle etc?......open channel D

watch this...the best

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour government,
much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government, handed to her
on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

How can you possibly refer to "today's snowflakes" while in the same
paragraph giving priority to watching TV?

some people did things for their parents .......

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

They'd probably go and snap a few old codger's car aerials off, Burt.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

They'd probably go and snap a few old codger's car aerials off, Burt.

it was so dark that they did more than car aerials ......

[Spike]

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just
repeat the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury
my grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

They'd probably go and snap a few old codger's car aerials off, Burt.

it was so dark that they did more than car aerials ......

CB/M0TEY doesn't have much of a clue, does he? But we all knew that anyway.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just
repeat the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury
my grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour
government, much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government,
handed to her on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

They'd probably go and snap a few old codger's car aerials off, Burt.

it was so dark that they did more than car aerials ......

CB/M0TEY doesn't have much of a clue, does he? But we all knew that anyway.

You don't have much of a car aerial, do you, Burt?

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

And all because a Labour government tried to control wage rises as an
anti-inflation measure. It didn't do inflation, or the Labour government,
much good - and it also ushered in the Thatcher government, handed to her
on a plate by Labour's incompetence.
We had a 9" B/W portable TV that had its own internal rechargeable
battery, so could still watch TV during the blackouts. One wonders how
today's snowflakes would cope with those conditions.

I was quite happy not to watch TV ...

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 08:44:16 +0000

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

Indeed - I aquired a 240/240v CVT - great for watching tv to get the
correct aspect ratio when the supply volts were dropped; also buying a
240/12v transformer rated at 20A incorporated into a homebrewed automatic
charger/ inverter kept in the flat's meter cupboard with a spare car
battery to keep the Kitchen and Lounge lights on when needed.
Exciting times for a young electronics professional.

I didn't do anything like that other than store petrol ....

[Spike]

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

Indeed - I aquired a 240/240v CVT - great for watching tv to get the
correct aspect ratio when the supply volts were dropped; also buying a
240/12v transformer rated at 20A incorporated into a homebrewed automatic
charger/ inverter kept in the flat's meter cupboard with a spare car
battery to keep the Kitchen and Lounge lights on when needed.
Exciting times for a young electronics professional.

I didn't do anything like that other than store petrol ....

I see Catweazel also watched TV during the blackouts - Brian Reay won't
like that, perhaps he didn't have a TV to watch.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Spike

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by Jim.GM4DHJ ...

Post by mm0fmf

Post by Brian Morrison

Post by Spike
But he's young - he never saw Marshall Aid money spent on Nuclear
weapons, or the White Heat failure, or the Winter of Discontent.

People need reminding about these things, otherwise we will just repeat
the errors of the past.

I remember the Winter of Discontent. We had to wait 4-5 weeks to bury my
grandmother due to the never ending strikes.
You need to have experienced it to understand what a disaster it was.

I found it quite exciting......searching for bread....power cuts etc ....

Indeed - I aquired a 240/240v CVT - great for watching tv to get the
correct aspect ratio when the supply volts were dropped; also buying a
240/12v transformer rated at 20A incorporated into a homebrewed automatic
charger/ inverter kept in the flat's meter cupboard with a spare car
battery to keep the Kitchen and Lounge lights on when needed.
Exciting times for a young electronics professional.

I didn't do anything like that other than store petrol ....

I see Catweazel also watched TV during the blackouts - Brian Reay won't
like that, perhaps he didn't have a TV to watch.

perhaps he didn't like his parents? ......

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Roger Hayter
I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

It's amazing what fear can be generated by piling supposition upon
supposition.
It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children's generation being forced to stomach a
15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").
Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.

Very emotive, Burt, but who gives a fuck about their future when the
present is so shit?

If that is your attitude then it is no wonder you expect everything on a
plate.

he thinks he is entitled .......

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Spike

Post by Roger Hayter
I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population. The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago! I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

It's amazing what fear can be generated by piling supposition upon
supposition.
It's also very interesting to see that the electoral bribes regarding
inter alia tuition fees and student loans seem to have been costed ("A
senior Conservative is to urge Theresa May to target the wealth of baby
boomers to prevent their children's generation being forced to stomach a
15p rise in income tax to cover the spiralling cost of healthcare,
education and welfare").
Perhaps 'the young' will now realise what it is they're being sold -
namely, their own future.

Very emotive, Burt, but who gives a fuck about their future when the
present is so shit?

this about sums it up ....

http://www.songlyrics.com/wreckless-eric/space-age-lyrics/

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses.

Not all old people own property, there's millions of young people, and
their children, who'll receive no inheritance at all. The broad demographic
group of the Boomers does, quite factually, hold masses of wealth. That
wealth needs to be freed up and spread across the younger demographic
groups.

Post by Roger Hayter
It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population.

Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective recognition
that the Boomers had it much better than generations following them.

Post by Roger Hayter
The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago!

It's not a zero sum game, but a hugely positive step would be to means-test
pensioner benefits, including the state pension. The idea of "paying in"
through NI is an absurd lie.

Post by Roger Hayter
I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

There's no such thing as a Good Tory, indeed. Willets is merely having a
single good idea, likely motivated more by political reality than genuine
care for the young.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses.

Not all old people own property, there's millions of young people, and
their children, who'll receive no inheritance at all. The broad demographic
group of the Boomers does, quite factually, hold masses of wealth. That
wealth needs to be freed up and spread across the younger demographic
groups.

Despite your outrage that fellow workers have acquired more than you
(perhaps partly because no-one in 1945 or in the 1960s voted to weaken
trade unionism - it is Thatcher who stole your property, not baby
boomers), bear in mind the the wealthy 1% are the ones who *really* own
the wealth.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Roger Hayter
It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population.

Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective recognition
that the Boomers had it much better than generations following them.

Post by Roger Hayter
The
solution to poor pensions is to demand better pensions, not try to take
them away from those who fought for them 70 years ago!

It's not a zero sum game, but a hugely positive step would be to means-test
pensioner benefits, including the state pension. The idea of "paying in"
through NI is an absurd lie.

Post by Roger Hayter
I remember how
the toolmakers in the car industry[1] were reviled for asking for higher
wages than semi-skilled workers, and the net result was that everyone's
wages fell. This sort of thing was the cause of much of the trouble in
the 70s that was blamed on the uinions.
[1] actually the toolmakers were overtaken by technology, but this does
not change the corrosive effect on the working class movement of
allowing the bosses to create dissension between different groups.
[2] didn't Willets engineer the rise in tuition fees?

There's no such thing as a Good Tory, indeed. Willets is merely having a
single good idea, likely motivated more by political reality than genuine
care for the young.

I can see the virtue of a progressive property tax with small effect on
average houses and rising with the top 20%. But bear in mind they are
unlikely to bring in a property tax and let it only apply to old people.

[Brian Morrison]

On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.

How's that work then?

[Bernie]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:33:21 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
How's that work then?

Too many self-employed photographers giving discounts for cash payments?

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Bernie
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:33:21 +0000

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
How's that work then?

Too many self-employed photographers giving discounts for cash payments?

shocking

[Rambo]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
i> How's that work then?
--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.
--

[Brian Reay]

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
i> How's that work then?
--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.

Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.

Council tax funds, in part, local services.

As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Ending the benefit culture- those who refuse to work when there are jobs
available, benefit fraud, stopping overseas' aid, .....etc would help
reduce the money the Government spends and therefore taxation.

[Rambo]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
i> How's that work then?
--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..

The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.

The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
How's that work then?

--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..
The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.
The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html

Here's the answer: print money. Literally create 10 billion quid and spend
every last penny on building council houses. Masses of that money would
instantly come back to the Treasury in taxes from building tradesmen,
contractor companies, materials suppliers, and more would come back in
taxes as these people spend their take-home on bills and shopping. The rest
would be collected in rents over the subsequent decades, with the
enterprise eventually making profit. It's really fucking simple: print
money. And don't give me any horseshit about inflation, we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any problems.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
How's that work then?

--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..
The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.
The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html

Here's the answer: print money. Literally create 10 billion quid and spend
every last penny on building council houses. Masses of that money would
instantly come back to the Treasury in taxes from building tradesmen,
contractor companies, materials suppliers, and more would come back in
taxes as these people spend their take-home on bills and shopping. The rest
would be collected in rents over the subsequent decades, with the
enterprise eventually making profit. It's really fucking simple: print
money.

Typical leftie 'solution' which has failed time after time.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
And don't give me any horseshit about inflation, we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any problems.

You were just moaning that things were terrible.

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Here's the answer: print money. Literally create 10 billion quid and spend
every last penny on building council houses. Masses of that money would
instantly come back to the Treasury in taxes from building tradesmen,
contractor companies, materials suppliers, and more would come back in
taxes as these people spend their take-home on bills and shopping. The rest
would be collected in rents over the subsequent decades, with the
enterprise eventually making profit. It's really fucking simple: print
money.

If that were true, WWII would have left us very rich. The ladies that
sewed the fabric for Spitfire elevons earned £100 a week, when the
average wage was about £2:50.

Post by Brian Reay
Typical leftie 'solution' which has failed time after time.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
And don't give me any horseshit about inflation, we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any problems.

The money was supposed to go to small businesses, but the bankers banked
it instead and used it to improve their liquidity figures.

Post by Brian Reay
You were just moaning that things were terrible.

The real problem with the banks is the ~1860s law that says they will be
bailed out without limit by the government.
--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone", or so the RSGB says. The group is
moderated 'to
ensure that the questions are on topic', but the group's own admissions
policy mention
(a pre-) 'vet', 'known', 'trouble', and 'maker', but not the vetting
policy! None of these are
'moderation' issues and none are mentioned in the RSGB's Guidelines.....

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
How's that work then?

--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..
The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.
The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html

Here's the answer: print money. Literally create 10 billion quid and spend
every last penny on building council houses. Masses of that money would
instantly come back to the Treasury in taxes from building tradesmen,
contractor companies, materials suppliers, and more would come back in
taxes as these people spend their take-home on bills and shopping. The rest
would be collected in rents over the subsequent decades, with the
enterprise eventually making profit. It's really fucking simple: print
money.

Typical leftie 'solution' which has failed time after time.

Kindly detail all of the previous schemes where tens of billions of pounds
was printed and spent on building council houses, and also please
demonstrate where and how each of these schemes failed. TIA.

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
And don't give me any horseshit about inflation, we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any problems.

You were just moaning that things were terrible.

Your selective snipping doesn't help your position, OM.

[Brian Morrison]

On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the chickens
will come home to roost because the central banks and governments have
no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

Please elaborate. This money was printed and given away a decade ago.

Post by Brian Morrison
When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the chickens
will come home to roost because the central banks and governments have
no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

Credit debt will fall over again sooner or later. The banks should be
allowed to fail this time.

Post by Brian Morrison
It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

Spending billions on national infrastructure is a better idea than giving
billions to bankers, no?

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

Please elaborate. This money was printed and given away a decade ago.

Post by Brian Morrison
When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the chickens
will come home to roost because the central banks and governments have
no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

Credit debt will fall over again sooner or later. The banks should be
allowed to fail this time.

Post by Brian Morrison
It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

Spending billions on national infrastructure is a better idea than giving
billions to bankers, no?

You really need to learn how the economy works.

QE, in effect, 'printed money' (which you advocated) by the 'central
banks' buying Gov. Bonds and therefore reducing interest rates (one
reason we've had low interest rates for so long). That should allow
companies to borrow to invest etc, creating jobs. And indeed employment
has increased. That stimulates the economy. That is the theory. And it
has worked to an extent. However, there has been some 'reluctance' to
invest on the scale it was hoped. Plus, low interest has led to 'bad'
borrowing- the kind which doesn't get repaid.

The bottom line is that borrowing needs to be controlled- not unlike in
a domestic situation. Those who, for example, borrow to a level they can
repay and for things they need- to buy a house for example- generally do
ok. Those who get themselves into debt by living beyond their means
don't. As a nation, we need to control our spending. You can't spend
your way out of debt as a country any more than you can as an individual.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

Please elaborate. This money was printed and given away a decade ago.

Post by Brian Morrison
When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the chickens
will come home to roost because the central banks and governments have
no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

Credit debt will fall over again sooner or later. The banks should be
allowed to fail this time.

Post by Brian Morrison
It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

Spending billions on national infrastructure is a better idea than giving
billions to bankers, no?

You really need to learn how the economy works.
QE, in effect, 'printed money' (which you advocated) by the 'central
banks' buying Gov. Bonds and therefore reducing interest rates (one
reason we've had low interest rates for so long). That should allow
companies to borrow to invest etc, creating jobs. And indeed employment
has increased. That stimulates the economy. That is the theory. And it
has worked to an extent. However, there has been some 'reluctance' to
invest on the scale it was hoped. Plus, low interest has led to 'bad'
borrowing- the kind which doesn't get repaid.

#Wikipedia #CopyNPaste

Post by Brian Reay
The bottom line is that borrowing needs to be controlled- not unlike in
a domestic situation.

It's an idiotic untruth that a state's finances are anything at all like
domestic finances.

Those who, for example, borrow to a level they can

Post by Brian Reay
repay and for things they need- to buy a house for example- generally do
ok. Those who get themselves into debt by living beyond their means
don't. As a nation, we need to control our spending. You can't spend
your way out of debt as a country any more than you can as an individual.

LRN 2 ECONOMICS BRO

[Brian Morrison]

On 6 Mar 2018 13:17:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

Please elaborate. This money was printed and given away a decade ago.

It was, but it was done as government bonds that will need to be repaid
somewhere in the future. Some of those are 100 year bonds, so the tail
of the debt goes on for quite some time.

Suggest you read some of Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's articles in the
Telegraph, he may not always be right but he describes the mechanisms
of the world financial system and economy well.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the
chickens will come home to roost because the central banks and
governments have no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

Credit debt will fall over again sooner or later. The banks should be
allowed to fail this time.

I agree that some banks should be allowed to fail, some others would
affect an awful lot of people, but then that's why there is a safety
net for up to £85k on deposit.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

Spending billions on national infrastructure is a better idea than
giving billions to bankers, no?

The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the same
time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets more secure
is a contradiction in terms. That was a mistake but then we were facing
something that had been anticipated in terms of effect but not in
scale. No one thought that the globalised financial sector would
collapse world-wide at the same time, but it did because of how
intertwined the world has become.

Actually, Ambrose E-P was writing about Hong Kong being in a critical
situation regarding asset bubbles that looks like it could worsen in the
next couple of years. Interesting read. Don't forget the Asian
financial crisis in the late 90s, it could happen again and affect the
rest of the world far more this time round.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 13:17:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 6 Mar 2018 06:36:49 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
we printed 400
billion quid and gave it to the bankers and it didn't cause any
problems

Actually it has and it will, we just haven't reached that point yet.

Please elaborate. This money was printed and given away a decade ago.

It was, but it was done as government bonds that will need to be repaid
somewhere in the future. Some of those are 100 year bonds, so the tail
of the debt goes on for quite some time.

Nah, either the revolution or the collapse of society will happen long
before that. In each case, debt will be wiped and the elite will be strung
from lampposts. Viva!

Post by Brian Morrison
Suggest you read some of Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's articles in the
Telegraph, he may not always be right but he describes the mechanisms
of the world financial system and economy well.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
When the next economic downward cyclical trend hits then the
chickens will come home to roost because the central banks and
governments have no effective ammunition left to counter a downturn.

Credit debt will fall over again sooner or later. The banks should be
allowed to fail this time.

I agree that some banks should be allowed to fail, some others would
affect an awful lot of people, but then that's why there is a safety
net for up to £85k on deposit.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
It will affect everyone, it won't make any difference what your
politics is, but the solutions will not come from those who advise
spending money without thought.

Spending billions on national infrastructure is a better idea than
giving billions to bankers, no?

The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the same
time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets more secure
is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Post by Brian Morrison
That was a mistake but then we were facing
something that had been anticipated in terms of effect but not in
scale. No one thought that the globalised financial sector would
collapse world-wide at the same time, but it did because of how
intertwined the world has become.
Actually, Ambrose E-P was writing about Hong Kong being in a critical
situation regarding asset bubbles that looks like it could worsen in the
next couple of years. Interesting read. Don't forget the Asian
financial crisis in the late 90s, it could happen again and affect the
rest of the world far more this time round.

It will happen again. Undoubtedly. The system is in its death state.

[Brian Morrison]

On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

[Brian Morrison]

On 7 Mar 2018 14:50:53 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

I don't think the Americans are clever enough to create that degree of
chaos. Chavez and now Maduro have done most of it themselves, and of
course imprisoning your political opponents isn't exactly cricket
either.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 14:50:53 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

I don't think the Americans are clever enough to create that degree of
chaos. Chavez and now Maduro have done most of it themselves, and of
course imprisoning your political opponents isn't exactly cricket
either.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, B.

[Brian Morrison]

On 7 Mar 2018 15:21:04 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 14:50:53 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at
the same time that they're being forced to make their balance
sheets more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a
full intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

I don't think the Americans are clever enough to create that degree
of chaos. Chavez and now Maduro have done most of it themselves,
and of course imprisoning your political opponents isn't exactly
cricket either.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, B.

I'd be looking in the mirror yourself, state control of everything is
simply not the answer now or at any time in the past or future.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 15:21:04 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 14:50:53 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at
the same time that they're being forced to make their balance
sheets more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a
full intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

I don't think the Americans are clever enough to create that degree
of chaos. Chavez and now Maduro have done most of it themselves,
and of course imprisoning your political opponents isn't exactly
cricket either.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, B.

I'd be looking in the mirror yourself, state control of everything is
simply not the answer now or at any time in the past or future.

They tried that in the USSR and it fell apart.

Ditto N Korea, Cuba, ...

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 14:50:53 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

I don't think the Americans are clever enough to create that degree of
chaos. Chavez and now Maduro have done most of it themselves, and of
course imprisoning your political opponents isn't exactly cricket
either.

In other circumstances, Mr Mueller himself might be tempted to do that
if the "political opponents" turn out to be paid foreign agents.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

Apart from crippling sanctions (which we are supporting fundamentally
because we are cowards) I doubt it's possible to walk down any city
street without bumping into a few CIA agents. Anyone remember the
Iran/Contra scandal?

[Brian Reay]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 7 Mar 2018 10:07:43 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
The problem is that telling banks to use the money to lend at the
same time that they're being forced to make their balance sheets
more secure is a contradiction in terms.

Well, quite. But the bigger mistake was the State not making a full
intervention and taking over the entire economy.

Venezuela is over there <---, it's not in a good state at all.

*cough*US interference*cough*

Apart from crippling sanctions (which we are supporting fundamentally
because we are cowards) I doubt it's possible to walk down any city
street without bumping into a few CIA agents. Anyone remember the
Iran/Contra scandal?

Been to Salisbury recently?

[Brian Reay]

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
i> How's that work then?
--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..
The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.

None of which makes your previous post any more correct.

What have you got against low income families being helped/allowed to
buy their own homes?

Post by Rambo
The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html
The scheme sets lets on the value of the houses applicants can buy. Due
to house values varying across the country, a 'low cost' house in, say,
Middlesbrough costs a fraction of an equivalent (size etc) house in the
South East.

Developers are required to provide a percentage of 'low cost' homes on
major developments for sale.

What have you got against low income families being helped/allowed to
buy their own homes?

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
How's that work then?

--
Brian Morrison

Its a broken system, paying third parties to run public services
for profit is absurd, as is the lack of social housing, resulting
in high cost private rents which are subsidised by council tax
payers in the form of housing benefit.

Housing Benefit is funded by the DWP budget, not local authorities.
Local authorities administer the system, including for private tenants,
but they don't fund it.
Council tax funds, in part, local services.
As for social housing, if more were provided then the government would
need to fund it, taking even more in tax.

Oh dear..
The Government is spending four times as much – some £32bn –
subsidising private housing as it is building affordable homes for low
income families, a report has revealed.

None of which makes your previous post any more correct.
What have you got against low income families being helped/allowed to
buy their own homes?

A system designed to transfer billions of pounds of public money into the
pockets of private landlords and developers is an obscenity, OM.

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Rambo
The study showed 79 per cent of the total housing budget is currently
spent on higher-cost homes for sale, including through the
controversial Help to Buy scheme, but just 21 per cent, around £8bn,
goes to affordable homes for rent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/affordable-housing-spending-private-tory-government-a7945616.html
The scheme sets lets on the value of the houses applicants can buy. Due
to house values varying across the country, a 'low cost' house in, say,
Middlesbrough costs a fraction of an equivalent (size etc) house in the
South East.
Developers are required to provide a percentage of 'low cost' homes on
major developments for sale.

There's a current case in the media where the percentage that one developer
provided was 0%.

Post by Brian Reay
What have you got against low income families being helped/allowed to
buy their own homes?

A system designed to transfer billions of pounds of public money into the
pockets of private landlords and developers is an obscenity, OM.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
A system designed to transfer billions of pounds of public money into the
pockets of private landlords and developers is an obscenity, OM.

social housing is more obscene .......seen it in operation ........

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
How's that work then?

Because Tories.

[Rambo]

On 5 Mar 2018 19:27:14 GMT, Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
How's that work then?

Because Tories.

And they know the writing is on wall for them. That's why they are
turning on each other just like the rats they are.

[Stephen Thomas Cole]

Post by Rambo
On 5 Mar 2018 19:27:14 GMT, Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
On 5 Mar 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective
recognition that the Boomers had it much better than generations
following them.

The percentage of income taken by the state is continuing to rise to
heights never before seen, and yet government says it has no money.
How's that work then?

Because Tories.

And they know the writing is on wall for them. That's why they are
turning on each other just like the rats they are.

It's the natural state for right wing wankers. Look at UKIP, totally
imploded in a vicious orgy of internecine warfare. Same' happening to
Tories, Brexit is going wrong (it can't actually go right, tbh, leaving the
EU with any kind of positive outcome for UK is impossible) and these pigs
are destroying themselves. It's beautiful. Just a shame that they're taking
us all down with them.

[Jeefaw K Effkay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Rambo
And they know the writing is on wall for them. That's why they are
turning on each other just like the rats they are.

It's the natural state for right wing wankers.

Oh good - we're back on topic - this newsgroup :-)

[Paul Cummins]

In article

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Brian Morrison
How's that work then?

Because Tories.

Don't blame it on the Sunshine!
Don't blame it on the Moonlight!
Don't blame it on the Good Times!
Blame it on the Tories...

[Brian Reay]

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses.

Not all old people own property, there's millions of young people, and
their children, who'll receive no inheritance at all. The broad demographic
group of the Boomers does, quite factually, hold masses of wealth. That
wealth needs to be freed up and spread across the younger demographic
groups.

Post by Roger Hayter
It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population.

Agreed, but it's not jealousy, per se, but rather an objective recognition
that the Boomers had it much better than generations following them.

Stop whining and do what the 'Boomers' did, graft.

[Jim.GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Brian Reay
Stop whining and do what the 'Boomers' did, graft.

and some have more money than they know what to do with .....

[Brian Reay]

Post by Roger Hayter
Telephone Number 01650511317 on Exchange CEMMAES ROAD is served by
Cabinet 7

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
About bloody time. Although I'd wager that it's less a genuine concern for
intergenerational fairness from this scumbag Tory than it is an absolute
terror of Jeremy Corbyn's electoral position.

I think you are being a little politcally naive here.[2] Taxes on old
people's property will come straight out of the next generation's
inheritance, which otherwise might be the only way they were going to
buy a house, or (seeing they are getting quite old now) subsidise their
kids' buying houses. It is always a mistake to let the Tories divide
us by promoting jealousy between sections of the population.

It is the left which do that by preaching that someone else has the
'share' their followers think belongs to them. The idea that those who
have, for example, their own houses may have grafted for them is just
one of those inconvenient truths the lazy lefties gloss over.