Discussion:
Fanciful this Companion of the Conqueror ?
(too old to reply)
Leo van de Pas via
2015-08-02 01:44:00 UTC
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Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.

In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.

Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.

With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
taf
2015-08-02 02:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as being a
descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye,
who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at
the Battle of Hastings.
I never heard this. Most accounts trace it to a Norman priory.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins
are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
The best pedigree I have seen is the following:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000001252729;view=1up;seq=189

If I recall correctly, this conflices with the father given John elsewhere.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions,
but Godfrey is not mentioned.
Has every appearence of being an after-the-fact invention.

taf
taf
2015-08-02 04:36:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by taf
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000001252729;view=1up;seq=189
I note that this pedigree makes mayor John Mundy the maternal grandson of John Ripes, alderman, but I can't find anyone of that name in Beavan Beavan's Aldermen of London.

taf
D. Spencer Hines
2015-08-02 05:39:12 UTC
Permalink
Inventing Companions of the Conqueror and Mysterious Younger Sons and
Daughters of the Nobility has been a Cottage Industry with one class of
genealogists for centuries.

DSH

Heinlein's Razor

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

Robert Anson Heinlein [1907-1988] U.S.N.A. '29
Post by taf
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000001252729;view=1up;seq=189
I note that this pedigree makes mayor John Mundy the maternal grandson of
John Ripes, alderman, but I can't find anyone of that name in Beavan
Beavan's Aldermen of London.

taf
p***@yahoo.ca
2015-08-02 02:32:15 UTC
Permalink
I suspect he may be the same as Geoffrey de Mowbray.
Peter Stewart via
2015-08-02 02:50:02 UTC
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Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
There were very few Norman counts and this one is completely fictional -
there was not even a seigneur of Mondaye so titled until around four
centuries after the Conquest, when it belonged to the Clinchamp family.
The abbey there (Saint-Martin) was not founded until the 13th century,
by the bishop of Bayeux rather than by a local magnate.

Peter Stewart
c***@yahoo.com
2018-08-18 16:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Hello Leo,
My name is Charles Markeaton-Mundy and I am a direct descendant of Sir John Mundy. In our family's oral tradition passed through generations it is believed the family descends from Rollo and was related to William the Conqueror. I have no tangible evidence or details on the live of Godfrey of Mondaye but it is certain he fought in the Battle of Hastings and was given lands in Derby in gratitude by the King.
I have the ancestry confirmed to John Mundy born 1250-1312 and married to Isabel Eyre of Hope.

https://www.houseofnames.com/mundy-family-crest

ww.surnamedb.com/Surname/Mundy

Kind regards Charles
taf
2018-08-18 17:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as being a
descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-
Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror
and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first
known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as
Mundy.
My name is Charles Markeaton-Mundy and I am a direct descendant of Sir
John Mundy. In our family's oral tradition passed through generations
it is believed the family descends from Rollo and was related to William
the Conqueror.
In Tudor and Stuart times, just about every gentry family in England invented such claims for themselves (or paid heralds to invent them for the family). When a tradition claims descent from Rollo it is almost always a representation of such formulaic invention (that or a confused rendering of the late-chronicle reports that some Norman families to descend from Rollo's nephews; the Mundys were not among those named in this context).
Post by c***@yahoo.com
I have no tangible evidence or details on the live of Godfrey of Mondaye
but it is certain he fought in the Battle of Hastings and was given lands
in Derby in gratitude by the King.
No, this is not certain. In most cases, the earliest record we have of Norman landholding in England comes from 20 years afterwards, and all we know is that the person held lands. We do not know when the lands were granted, other than that is was at any time between 1066 and 1086. We don't know why they were granted lands. Attention of these claims focuses on Hastings, but it was only one in a sequence of events that led to the conquest and passification of England, and it simply cannot be assumed by the fact that someone was holding land 20 years afterwards that it was for this one specific battle, or any battle, for that matter - kings have also been known to reward non-military service with land grants.

As for fighting at Hastings, there are only a small number of people who are known to have fought there. Because of its immediate importance, it came into vogue to make such claims for one's immediate ancestors, and before long people started making long rolls of 'participants' that were really nothing but lists of families prominent in England at the time the lists were compiled, rather than at the battle itself. Likewise, appearance in Domesday is taken as evidence for fighting at Hastings. There are people holding land in 1086 whom we know fought at Hastings, and there are people holding land in 1086 who are known not to have fought at Hastings, while for the vast majority, we don't know one way or the other.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
I have the ancestry confirmed to John Mundy born 1250-1312 and married to
Isabel Eyre of Hope.
Yeah, that would be the pedigree published by Nichols in his The History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester. Unfortunately, other published accounts don't even agree on the father of Lord Mayor John Mundy, while there are specific details in the pedigree immediately prior to him that I have been unable to confirm. I haven't seen any attempt to trace his ancestry that doesn't simply cite one of the conflicting sources, without any reference being made to primary documentation to prove the claimed connections or explain the conflicting sources.

taf
p***@yahoo.ca
2018-08-20 01:21:50 UTC
Permalink
TAF is right in that there are only a handful of accepted people known to have been at the Battle Of Hastings. Here's a link to a site with a reliable list:
https://www.normanconquest1066.org/transcript-of-the-companions-of-the-conqueror-sources-ancestors--descendants.html I am fortunate to descend from two of these: Eustace Of Boulogne and Walter Giffard. I am also closely related via his sister, Adelaide, to William The Conqueror. My wife is a direct descendant of William.
p***@yahoo.ca
2018-08-20 01:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Since you're not aware, Leo van de Pas died two years ago. His site, Geneologics, continues on: http://www.genealogics.org/index.php
c***@yahoo.com
2020-05-08 23:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Hi Leo I am a direct descendent of Sir John Mundy, in our family oral tradition it was always mentioned that Godfrey, Count of Mondaye came to England with William the Conqueror, and in fact ws related to him. The reality is that I have not found any information but I am the current Count of Mondaye. Well before Sir John was appointed Lord Mayor of London by King Henry VIII, the family had been granted lands in Derbyshire by William of Normandy after the battle of Hastings in 1066. You can contact me at ***@artculturewb.org if interested
Peter Stewart
2020-05-09 01:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.

First, Leo van de Pas died in 2016. He was a kind soul, a dedicated
genealogist and a highly-valued contributor in this newsgroup over
years. His question in 2015 about an alleged companion of the Conqueror
is an example of his conscientious pursuit of true information, but
should not be taken as showing confidence on his part that "Godfrey,
Count of Mondaye" was an actual Norman magnate or even a real personage.
He wasn't.

Secondly, if you have inherited a genuine title as "count of Mondaye"
then this is (a) not British and (b) not medieval. Family oral
tradition, like any kind of hearsay, is not a reliable guide to the
distant past.

Peter Stewart
mark miller mundy
2020-08-14 22:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.
First, Leo van de Pas died in 2016. He was a kind soul, a dedicated
genealogist and a highly-valued contributor in this newsgroup over
years. His question in 2015 about an alleged companion of the Conqueror
is an example of his conscientious pursuit of true information, but
should not be taken as showing confidence on his part that "Godfrey,
Count of Mondaye" was an actual Norman magnate or even a real personage.
He wasn't.
Secondly, if you have inherited a genuine title as "count of Mondaye"
then this is (a) not British and (b) not medieval. Family oral
tradition, like any kind of hearsay, is not a reliable guide to the
distant past.
Peter Stewart
While doing some research on my own father during the Covid lockdown, I came across this series of posts and in particular the one from this Charles Markeaton-Mundy. I am afraid that this distant relation of mine is hell bent on creating completely fictitious links with historical figures which have no factual basis whatsoever. Even if there was a title connected with Mondaye in France I believe it would pass down the male line of the family not the female one which Charles Markeaton-Mundy is descended from. He appears obsessed with creating links with higher and higher echelons of English aristocracy by simply registering his claims with as many heritage sites as possible presumably on the basis that if you ‘throw enough mud some of it will stick’.

My Apologies,

Yours,

Mark Miller Mundy.
Peter Stewart
2020-08-14 22:56:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by mark miller mundy
Post by Peter Stewart
Post by Leo van de Pas via
Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of London 1522, is described as becing a descendant of Godfrey, Count of Mondaye, a Norman noble from Juaye-Mondaye, who was one of the proven companions of William the Conqueror and fought at the Battle of Hastings. In England the family was first known as Mondaye, later as Munday, and by the time of Sir John, as Mundy.
In Burke's Landed Gentry where this family is mentioned, no such origins are mentioned, but then the entry starts with the father of Sir John Mundy.
Does anyone know about this Godfrey? Wikipedia has a list of Companions, but Godfrey is not mentioned.
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.
First, Leo van de Pas died in 2016. He was a kind soul, a dedicated
genealogist and a highly-valued contributor in this newsgroup over
years. His question in 2015 about an alleged companion of the Conqueror
is an example of his conscientious pursuit of true information, but
should not be taken as showing confidence on his part that "Godfrey,
Count of Mondaye" was an actual Norman magnate or even a real personage.
He wasn't.
Secondly, if you have inherited a genuine title as "count of Mondaye"
then this is (a) not British and (b) not medieval. Family oral
tradition, like any kind of hearsay, is not a reliable guide to the
distant past.
Peter Stewart
While doing some research on my own father during the Covid lockdown, I came across this series of posts and in particular the one from this Charles Markeaton-Mundy. I am afraid that this distant relation of mine is hell bent on creating completely fictitious links with historical figures which have no factual basis whatsoever. Even if there was a title connected with Mondaye in France I believe it would pass down the male line of the family not the female one which Charles Markeaton-Mundy is descended from. He appears obsessed with creating links with higher and higher echelons of English aristocracy by simply registering his claims with as many heritage sites as possible presumably on the basis that if you ‘throw enough mud some of it will stick’.
The fantasy was made plain in the poster's bizarre statement "I am a
direct descendent [sic] of Sir John Mundy, in our family oral tradition
it was always mentioned that Godfrey, Count of Mondaye came to England
with William the Conqueror, and in fact w[a]s related to him. The
reality is that I have not found any information but I am the current
Count of Mondaye."

No-one can genuinely inherit a title on the basis of no information.
Most real aristocrats holding Continental titles do not follow the (now
outdated) English convention of capitalising the "c" in count.

And of course no-one can be a count just because the claim may be
accepted by any number of "heritage" groups made up of fellow fantasists.

The kind of personality that is attracted to such groups in the first
place is happily not much represented in SGM - there is no need to
apologise for this one who, unlike some other pretenders and nuisances,
didn't trouble us further.

Peter Stewart

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