Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereChip,
Cell - The CELL processor is a collaboration between IBM, Sony and
Toshiba, is there a low power cell processor availiable for laptops or
even desktops? Does it have the requisite compilers for all modern
languages supported by macos? If not who will scale it? Who will build
it? If IBM wont scale PPC why will they do it for cell? Apple cant
because they dont own it.
as I understand - this of course could be incorrect -
Cell is, a at its core, a single PPC processor with 8 'sub processors'
it is a low to medium power consumption processor - and the numbers I
have seen for PS3 claim 2 TERA-flops. Since it is based on the PPC
processor it is possible that Mac OS would run as is.
Apple does not own it - would sony/toshiba/IBM be willing to license
its use?
I do not know
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSpherePower 5 - a server oriented chip, that is very unlikely to be scaled
down to laptop size in terms of heat, space and power requirements.
The same problems but multiplied over the problems with scaling donw
the requirements of G5. If it could be scaled down, IBM might choose
not to do it and they own it.
G5 is a modified Power 4 I do not know enough about the Power 5
specifications regarding power consumption and heat to make any claim.
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereDual Core G4 - does IBM make this? How many years would Apple have to
limp on with an old soldier processor just because? If IBM choose not
to do it, who does?
No - Freescale (ex-motorola - spun off a year o 3 ago) does.
Since the PPC architecture is an IBM/Apple/Motorola collaboration Apple
should have as much right to it as any other PPC chip (see cell)
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereTheir own chip plant - interesting concept.
I thought about this a bit more - a plant could be purchased from Intel
(or others - Freescale), or built as available/needed.
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereDo you have any idea what
is involved in designing and fabricating a new chip?
Well... I know the IBM Fishkill Plant was about $10 Billion - but that
plant has capacity far in excess of what Apple (currently and likely
for the forseeable future) needs. With absolutely no hard numbers, it
would seem likly that Apple could build a fabrication plant for 2-3
Billion, and would be able to have this plant available in the same
time frame as an intel Mac.
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereIt does not
involve magic wands, it involves hundreds of millions of dollars and
immence expertise and R&D - again, how long must we wait?
Yes and no -
at no time did I suggest that Apple *design* a new chip from scratch, I
was trying to suggest that Apple get their own fabricate plant to
produce their chip(s).
I *do* understand that there is significant amount of work, effort,
expertise, and time in designing a chip.
Apple does not have to design a new chip from scratch do they?
If Apple has/had their own fabrication plant, they can/could produce G5
chips, and/or Dual-core G4s to meet their supply requirements. THis
might even make IBM happier, as then they would have a bit more
capacity to produce Cells for Sony, and if Apple's plant had excess
capacity IBM could even buy that capacity (or production) from Apple to
produce additional PPC chips for xbox and nintendo - if they needed.
Apple could continue to work with IBM &/or Freescale to develop lower
power G5 chips, faster dual core G4s, and dual core G5s (already in
alpha state); and then do the final chip fabrication themselves.
Post by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereI really dont get your apparent head in the sand approach to this. My
understanding is that despite the best wishes and intentions of Apple,
they simply could not get a decent chip out of IBM for some reason or
other.
Foremost theory is (if you read the press) that IBM really could not
be bothered with the hassle of working on the G5 relative to the
returns posed by developing MASS market chips. It seems to me Apple
hand no choice but to go to either AMD or intel and there is nothing I
have seen so far that would preclude AMD and intel in the future.
So Apple have a strategy that will relatively seamlessly migrate users
over a period of time from one chipset to another. Given the rapid
pace of IT and the typical design life of approximately 3 years, their
strategy looks pretty darn good.
They did the 68040 -> PPC transition very well (did you sue them for
that by the way? If so how did you get on?).
They also did the Mac OS 9 to X transition well also (did you sue them
for that by the way? If so how did you get on?).
Personally I would have loved to see the PPC consortium deliver a
continum of RISC chips to power apples, but being realistic, faced
with the choice between great looking but relatively sluggish
equiopment, and the alternative of great looking high performance kit,
I will take the latter every time.
So, unless you are an assembly programmer whos life has centred on
hand carving PPC calls, there is little to truely gripe about.
If you love your PPC based kit some much, just keep using it, choose
not to upgrade anything on it and it will still be fit for purpose as
sold by Apple.
It frightens me how I have managed to spend nearly an hour debating
this stuff, but I do like a good flame/rant.
Enjoy! (I await the next measured, researched and informed installment).
:-)
MM
Post by ChipPost by Martin Miller - AnotherSphereWhat do you expect Apple to do about the PPC performance/power
consumption/failure to scale into laptops, problems if they do not do
what they have announced?
i.e. what is your informated alternative strategy?
All I am hearing is complaints and problems but no alternatives.
cell?
Power 5?
Dual Core G4?
Their own chip plant?
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