Discussion:
Old System Struggling and Dying-Catherine Austin Fitts
(too old to reply)
Werner
2013-08-03 18:19:26 UTC
Permalink
I think the big question is how violent will things get?” Fitts biggest worry is not financial collapse. Fitts contends, “I don’t think the people who run the U.S. military or run the United States government are going to say we’re happy to collapse rather than go to war. They are going to go to war. They’re going to shake somebody down.”
http://usawatchdog.com/old-system-struggling-and-dying-catherine-austin-fitts/
nickname unavailable
2013-08-04 00:19:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner
I think the big question is how violent will things get?” Fitts biggest worry is not financial collapse. Fitts contends, “I don’t think the people who run the U.S. military or run the United States government are going to say we’re happy to collapse rather than go to war. They are going to go to war. They’re going to shake somebody down.”
http://usawatchdog.com/old-system-struggling-and-dying-catherine-austin-fitts/
we have been thru this before. the old system of liberty for a few, and thrift and tyranny for the many is collapsing. its what happened in europe in the 1930's.



here are some apt statements why liberty for a few, and thrift and tyranny for the many never works.



Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles
of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be
restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
- Bertrand Russell



"The game of Darwinian economics and the enshrinement of market-miracle
theology is really the systematic looting of the pockets and purses of
the middle class"
Jerry M. Landay of Bristol


our state and nation have experienced major declines resulting from contemporary conservative leaders and their simplistic ideas. their dour polices regularly fail to connect the dots, let alone comprehend the space between them.
richard a. swanson


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest
exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a
superior moral justification for selfishness.--John Kenneth
Galbraith


"The perfect liberty they seek is the liberty of making slaves of other people." -- Abraham Lincoln


show me a criminal that is for regulation


While it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is
true that most stupid people are conservative. ... John Stuart Mill


Taxes are not "punishment for success". Nor are they "theft". Taxes
are a royalty paid commensurate to the economic benefit obtained from
a shared socio-economic system.

"Those who gain the benefit should also bear the disadvantage."
- Common Law maxim


"Once you have assisted the elites to get 99%
of the world's wealth into the hands of 1%
of the world's elites, which side of the
wealth divide will you be on?"



``Capitalism sowed the seeds of its own demise because the benefits of a decade-long boom accrued to capital, with nothing flowing to labor. Telling workers who hadn't had a decent pay raise for years to tighten their belts once the good times ended proved disastrous.


The biggest political story of 2008 is getting little
coverage. It involves the collapse of assumptions that have dominated
our economic debate for three decades.
Since the Reagan years, free market cliches have passed for
sophisticated economic analysis. But in the current crisis, these
ideas are falling, one by one, as even conservatives recognize that
capitalism is ailing.
You know the talking points: Regulation is the problem and
deregulation is the solution. The distribution of income and wealth
doesn't matter. Providing incentives for the investors of capital to
"grow the pie" is the only policy that counts. Free trade produces
well-distributed economic growth, and any dissent from this orthodoxy
is "protectionism."
e.j. dionne


Deregulation is such a canard.

Remember, when a Republican talks about "Free" Markets, they mean

Free of Regulation
Free of Oversight
Free of Competition
Free of Ethics
Free of Morality
Free of Common Sense
Free of Long Term Thinking'


Thoughts from the Great Depression
As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth -- not of existing wealth, but of wealth as it is currently produced -- to provide men with buying power equal to the amount of goods and services offered by the nation's economic machinery. Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped.

(Eccles, Marriner S. 1951. Beckoning Frontiers: Public and Personal Recollections (New York: Alfred A. Knopf): p. 76





"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of 
private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic 
state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an 
individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.
Abraham Lincoln


We know now that Government by
organized money is just as dangerous
as Government by organized mob.
--Franklin D. Roosevelt


For twelve years this Nation was afflicted with hear‑nothing,
see‑nothin­g, do‑nothing Government. The Nation looked to Government but
the government looked away. Nine mocking years with the golden calf and
three long years of the scourge! Nine crazy years at the ticker and
three long years in the breadlines! Nine mad years of mirage and three
long years of despair! Powerful influences strive today to restore that
kind of government with its doctrine that that Government is best which
is most indifferent. --FDR, in 1936, talking about 1920-1932
Werner
2013-08-04 03:00:37 UTC
Permalink
We have indeed been governed into bankruptcy. That is why the original idea was to limit government.
http://www.EndIt.info
nickname unavailable
2013-08-04 06:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner
We have indeed been governed into bankruptcy.
you keep saying that with nothing to back it up.


That is why the original idea was to limit government.
Post by Werner
http://www.EndIt.info
no. the constitution clearly does not say that.
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-04 14:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by nickname unavailable
Post by Werner
We have indeed been governed into bankruptcy.
you keep saying that with nothing to back it up.
That is why the original idea was to limit government.
Post by Werner
http://www.EndIt.info
no. the constitution clearly does not say that.
Actually the preamble to the constitution does say the purpose of the
document is to limit government.


["....We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more
perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide
for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the
Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and
establish this Constitution for the United States of America....."]


where it says "promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of
Liberty" that means the document will attempt to encourage what is in
the best interest of the people. And it is in the best interest of the
people's freedom to have a limited government that is NOT all powerful
like the KING that they fought a war to gt rid of.




Thy touched on three main things, *GENERAL WELFARE* and *DOMESTIC*
*TRANQUILITY* and *LIBERTY* FOR OURSELVES AND OUR CHILDREN.

the rest is more about how you get some of that.


You don't create Liberty for the people by constraining the people or
you end up like Bill and Hillary that killed 25 kids at Waco TX to save
them. And that is just a sick perverted outlook if you think killing
those kids saved them. So the constitution does call for Liberty and
the Preamble tells you it should do so, and


*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*




*Rumination*
#67 - The least government necessary is the best government possible.
nickname unavailable
2013-08-04 15:53:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:01:46 AM UTC-5, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

dedicated to liberty for the wealthy and powerful and thrift and tyranny for the powerless, 36 brave "CONSERVATIVE/LIBERTARIAN" senators Introduce Bill Prohibiting Virtually Any New Law Helping Workers, hitler applauds from the grave

remember, the libertarian hitler outlawed unions, and dismantled german labor laws, and gave the wealthy and powerful complete control over the workplace.


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/02/2404301/36-senators-introduce-bill-prohibiting-virtually-any-new-federal-law-helping-workers/


36 Senators Introduce Bill Prohibiting Virtually Any New Law Helping Workers
By Ian Millhiser on August 2, 2013 at 10:47 am

More than three-quarters of the Senate Republican caucus signed onto legislation introduced Wednesday by Sens. Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Rand Paul (R-KY) that could render it virtually impossible for Congress to enact any legislation intended to improve working conditions or otherwise regulate the workplace. Had their bill been in effect during the Twentieth Century, for example, there would likely be no nationwide minimum wage, no national ban on workplace discrimination, no national labor law and no overtime in most industries.
Like many Tea Party proposals to neuter the federal government, Coburn and Paul’s bill is marketed as an effort to bring America back in line with a long-ago discarded vision of the Constitution. It’s named the “Enumerated Powers Act of 2013,” a reference to the provisions of the Constitution outlining Congress’ specific powers, and it claims to require all federal legislation to “’contain a concise explanation of the specific authority in the Constitution’ that is the basis for its enactment.”
The key provision in this bill, however, would revive a discredited interpretation of the Constitution that America abandoned nearly eight decades ago. Although the text of the bill is not yet available online, a press release from Coburn’s office explains that it “[p]rohibits the use of the Commerce Clause, except for ‘the regulation of the buying and selling of goods or services, or the transporting for those purposes, across boundaries with foreign nations, across State lines, or with Indian tribes.’”
To translate this language a bit, in the late 19th Century, the Supreme Court embraced an unusually narrow interpretation of the Constitution’s provision enabling Congress to “regulate commerce . . . among the several states.” Under this narrow reading, which lasted less than half a century, the justices said that they would only permit federal laws that regulated the transport of goods for sale or a sale itself. Manufacturing, mining, production and agriculture were all held to be beyond federal regulation. This theory was the basis for several decisions striking down basic labor protections, including a 1918 decision declaring a child labor law unconstitutional.
Coburn and Paul’s bill appears to be an attempt to restore the constitutional regime that prohibited child labor regulation and other such nationwide regulation of the American workplace. While the bill does not apply retroactively — so existing labor laws would continue to function — the bill does allow a procedural objection to be raised against any new legislation that does not comply with the limits imposed by the bill. Such an objection could be used to block any most attempts to enact new workplace laws — such as a bill increasing the national minimum wage or a bill prohibiting all employers from firing workers because they are gay. Similarly, Coburn and Paul’s bill could permanently entrench decisions by the conservative Roberts Court rolling back existing protections for workers — such as a recent decision shielding many employers whose senior employees engage in sexual harassment.
Such an effort to shrink the constitutional role of government until it is small enough to be drowned in a bathtub is consistent with Paul and Coburn’s records. Last March, Paul praised a particularly infamous Supreme Court decision empowering employers to ruthlessly exploit their workers. Coburn told a town hall meeting in 2011 that Medicare and Medicaid are unconstitutional because “that’s a family responsibility, not a government responsibility.”
What is somewhat surprising, however, is the sheer breadth of support for Coburn and Paul’s discredited view of the Constitution within the Senate Republican Caucus. According to Coburn’s press release, their bill is cosponsored by “Senators Ayotte (R-NH), Barrasso (R-WY), Blunt (R-MO), Boozman (R-AR), Burr (R-NC), Chambliss (R-GA), Coats (R-IN), Corker (R-TN), Cornyn (R-TX), Crapo (R-ID), Cruz (R-TX), Enzi (R-WY), Fischer (R-NE), Flake (R-AZ), Graham (R-SC), Grassley (R-IA), Hatch (R-UT), Heller (R-NV), Inhofe (R-OK), Isakson (R-GA), Johnson (R-WI), Lee (R-UT), McCain (R-AZ), McConnell (R-KY), Moran (R-KS), Risch (R-ID), Roberts (R-KS), Rubio (R-FL), Scott (R-SC), Sessions (R-AL), Thune (R-SD), Toomey (R-PA), Vitter (R-LA), and Wicker (R-MS).”
nickname unavailable
2013-08-04 15:55:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:01:46 AM UTC-5, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:


deregulation, could they have been more wrong, naw: How to Succeed in Economics by … er, Totally Not Succeeding, honorable mentions go to Alan Greenspan, Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, the editorial board of theWall Street Journal, the editorial board of the Washington Post, summers, simpson/bowles, santelli, geithner


http://www.alternet.org/print/economy/5-powerful-men-who-were-catastrophically-wrong-about-economy-reaped-rewards-anyway


By RJ Eskow [2]

5 Powerful Men Who Were Catastrophically Wrong About the Economy—But Reaped Rewards Anyway
July 24, 2013 |
The boards are lighting up with consternation at the notion that Lawrence Summers might be rewarded for his vital role in triggering the 2008 financial crisis by being given the chairmanship of the Federal Reserve. Summers is reportedly lobbying hard for the job, along with many of his powerful Washington friends. (He has a lot of those.) There have been no denials from the White House, which may be treating these stories as a trial balloon—and a test of our national economic amnesia.
Larry Summers at the Fed? It sounds like madness—and it is. Summers epitomizes the old, misguided model of the economist as Washington power player and Wall Street money maker, ever willing to retrofit theories, assumptions and models to benefit those they serve.
This behavior doesn’t even have to be deliberate and cynical. Robert Johnson of the Institute for New Economic Thinking [3], a group which is dedicated to creating new and more effective economic paradigms, told AlterNet he believes economists in this mold internalize their beliefs and are sincere when they express them.
Cynical or not—and there are probably plenty of people in both camps—the economics field is filled with people whose erroneous thinking and conflicts of interest have been rewarded with ascendancy to ever-higher positions. In fact, if recent history is any example, moral probity and clear-headed analysis are obstacles to advancement.
Sound harsh? Here are five examples of financial forecasting failure as a career-enhancing technique.
1. Lawrence Summers.Economist Dean Baker [4]has the lowdown on Summers. Bill Clinton’s former Treasury Secretary is well-known in economic circles for such accomplishments as his brutal hectoring of Brooksley Born over her prophetic warnings about mortgages, and his open mockery of IMF chief economist Raghuram Rajan financial reform as a “Luddite” because Rajan was—oh, what’s that word again?—oh, yes: correct.
That story is instructive. At a 2005 conference, Rajan dared to question [5] the “financial innovation” which Summers and his crowd had both celebrated and made possible under Bill Clinton. Rajan suggested that the proliferation of risky instruments like mortgage-backed securities, together with the perverse incentives built into banker bonuses, could lead to a “full-blown financial crisis” and a “catastrophic meltdown.”
In response, Summers stood up in the audience and launched a tirade against Rajan. Summers argued strongly against increased regulation, claiming it would decrease Wall Street’s “productivity.
Rajan, was absolutely right, as we now know, while Summers was wrong. And he wasn’t just wrong as in “he made a bad call” wrong. He was wrong as in “He fought aggressively to deregulate Wall Street, ran roughshod over anyone who raised legitimate concerns, bullied anyone who tried to prevent the tragic events of 2008, took big fees from banking firms, and was nastily and abusively wrong, over and over and over.”
Larry Summers was that kind of wrong. Now he’s seriously being discussed as head of the Federal Reserve. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this country seems to have completely lost its mind.
In lobbying for this job, Summers and his allies are trying to elbow out the highly qualified Janet Yellen for the position. She has a much better track record, and would be the first woman to lead the Fed.
Sure, Summers has said the right things about job creation lately. Now we know why: he’s angling for a new gig. But he’s still the wrong person or the job. He’s demonstrated a propensity for spectacularly aggressive erroneousness. He’s made millions from the bankers he’d supposedly be regulating. (As the Washington Post reported in 2009, in a single year Summers made $5.2 million in fees from a hedge fund and $2.7 in Wall Street speaking fees.) And, as Baker points out, he’d be displacing a highly talented woman who would be perfect for the job.
2. Tim Geithner.We all remember Geithner’s tenure as Treasury Secretary. He ignored repeated warnings about unemployment, and as a result he presided over the longest and deepest jobs depression in many decades. His stewardship of the TARP bailout program was so lax that, as the US Inspector General reported [6], bankers were allowed to receive bonuses so large they were apparently illegal.
And who could forget his lordly pronouncements of Wall Street innocence, even as his own staff was hurriedly cutting deals to immunize bankers from criminal prosecution for their widespread fraud?
The long-term unemployed and impoverished Americans, whose numbers remain at record highs after four years of Secretary Geithner, need no help remembering his failure to revive the economy while in a position of power. Nor do the homeowners who were cruelly manipulated by fraudulent “extend and pretend” programs, thanks to Geithner’s HAMP program, which allowed banks to “pretend” they would modify a homeowner’s mortgage so they could collect payments for another year or two – that’s the “extend” part – before foreclosing on them anyway.
That process included numerous examples of bank fraud, both toward homeowners and local authorities, which was committed to permit bank foreclosures. Although that eventually led to a $25 billion fraud settlement, no bankers were indicted – or even lost their jobs—during the Geithner years or since.
But to understand how economics rewards the mistaken we need to go further back in history, to the time before Geithner became Secretary of the Treasury. Before taking that position, Geithner was head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Since Wall Street was in his region, that made Geithner the second-most important official in the entire Fed. How was his record there?
For starters, recent reports showed that Geithner was aware of the LIBOR scandal, in which bankers manipulated critical figures in order to rook borrowers such as municipalities, all the way back at the end of 2007. Banks routinely the figures they provided to the agency which uses them to set interbank lending rates, which affects roughly $350 trillion in derivatives. These numbers influence municipal bond rates, among many other things, costing cities as much as $6 billion [7].
As finance professor Andrew Lo said, “This dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets.” And yet when he learned of it, Geither did nothing more than send the agency a letter with some recommendations—a letter which had been written, not by his Fed staff, but by the banks themselves [8]. There’s no sign he followed up while he was Secretary of the Treasury. He certainly never told the American people about it.
Geithner’s role at the New York Fed makes his inaction on mortgage fraud especially inexcusable. William K. Black Jr. [9]has documented the overwhelming mass of warnings provided to the Fed, which included:
• A petition signed by 11,000 honest appraisers which warned the Fed that lenders were “blacklisting honest appraisers” and sending business to ones that would give them the inflated valuations they wanted;
• Public warnings from the FBI, back in 2004, that an “epidemic” of mortgage fraud was underway and could create a financial “crisis.” (The cop on the beat was a better economic forecaster than either Summers or Geithner.)
• Statements from state prosecutors warning of fraud.
Other warnings came from trade groups, borrower representatives and from within the mortgage industry itself. But then, anyone who understands basic finance should have seen that fraud was being lavishly rewarded and honesty was being financially punished.
Our future Treasury Secretary didn’t see it coming. From a Federal Reserve meeting transcript dated January 2007: “How strong does the economy look outside autos and housing? Pretty strong, it seems. We see no troubling signs of weakness …”
3.Alan Simpson;and 4. Erskine Bowles.They’re funded by anti-government billionaire Pete Peterson. They were made co-chairs of President Obama’s “Deficit Commission.” And they’re repeatedly, remarkably wrong. They also very right-wing, according to the polls, which consistently show that their proposed government cuts are too extreme for many Republicans and are widely disliked by the public at large. And yet, in the distorted worldview of Washington and the major media, they’re repeatedly presented as “moderate” or “centrist.”
They’re also presented as economic experts—despite their penchant for wildly inaccurate predictions.
Alan Simpson is a former Republican senator from Wyoming. Erskine Bowles is a former Clinton White House apparatchik and hedge fund millionaire from Morgan Stanley. Two years ago, in June 2011, they made a bold prediction [10]: The United States will experience another terrible economic crisis—"the most predictable economic crisis in history"—if people don’t listen to them and radically cut government spending.
How was this disaster going to happen? It will come, they said, when “the ratings agencies find out we have no plan” to cut spending.
It’s July 2013. Their two years are up. There was no “crisis.” There’s terrible ongoing hardship, but there’s increasing consensus (even Larry Summers is on board) that the primary source of this continued difficulty is the spending reductions advocated by Bowles and Simpson.
Of course, the Terrible Two have suffered no career consequences for this or any other failed prediction they have made. They’re still quoted worshipfully in many newspapers, are seen frequently on television, and are treated as if they were people who understood economics.
This isn’t Bowles’ first rodeo, or his only one. He’s been serving on a lot of corporate boards, where a director’s guidance is instrumental to the success of the firm. Dean Baker co-authored an analysis of his work [11]in that field, finding that “the Erskine Bowles index considerably underperformed the S&P 500 over this period”:
In boardroom life, unlike real life, there is no penalty for failure. Mr. Bowles was handsomely compensated for his board work, just as he is warmly recognized for the probity which led him to predict that a new and massive debt-caused crisis would shatter our nation by sometime last month.
5. Rick Santelli.Government officials aren’t the only ones who can get their predictions spectacularly wrong and be rewarded for it. Tea Party hero Rick Santelli, who prognosticates on the economy for CNBC, has shown that economic ineptitude can be privatized.
Santelli screamed for years (literally, as this clip [12]demonstrates) about government stimulus spending, an anti-recessionary technique that has worked reliably over and over during economic times like these. “Stop spending!” Santelli shrieked.
Europe “stopped spending”—or at least slashed its spending—and the resulting austerity budgets have caused GDPs to collapse and unemployment to soar all across the continent. The United States did the same thing. The result? Our GDP also took a hit, while our unemployment figures linger somewhere between quasi-depressionary and catastrophic for large swathes of the population.
And yet Santelli’s visibility actually went up over this period. Why? Because Santelli also went into a hysterical fit on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was furious at the idea that homeowners, who had been victimized by crooked bankers, might get some help deal with underwater mortgages, while expressing no such outrage about the hundreds of billions in aid given to Wall Street banks; aid that benefited both Santelli and his irate audience of traders. Santelli used the felicitous phrase “Tea Party,” and a movement had a new name.
We almost wrote “and a movement was born,” but the Tea Party was actually born in corporate boardrooms, and in meetings with Republican party functionaries like Dick Armey. Santelli merely stumbled on a phrase. Despite his cockeyed predictions, his visibility went into overdrive—and a thousand silly hats were born.
Santelli’s not above a fib or two, if that’s what it takes to hide his poor track record. In another bad Santelli prediction, he said the Fed’s moves in 2009 would be extremely inflationary. They weren’t. Santelli’s response? “I never said it was about inflation,” he claimed recently. But Business Insider reviewed the recording in which Santelli said, quote, “of course it’s about inflation [13].”
Whoops. Professor Krugman [14] bemoaned the inflationistas for what he calls their “stunning lack of menschlichkeit.” That’s a Yiddish way of saying “what a bunch of jerks.”
Santelli and his mean-spirited friends on that Chicago floor screamed at homeowners, “Losers! Losers! Losers!” They might have been talking about the success rate of predictions made by Santelli and his ilk.
Conclusion: How to Succeed in Economics by … er, Totally Not Succeeding
This is, by necessity, only a partial list. Space limitations prevent us from recognizing all those who are qualified for recognition in this category. But honorable mentions go to Alan Greenspan, Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, the editorial board of theWall Street Journal, the editorial board of the Washington Post, your tipsy uncle at last Thanksgiving dinner, and all the fine folks who worked in risk management on Wall Street without noticing that something was seriously, seriously wrong.
Some risk managers did notice, and warned their bosses, only to see their careers stall accordingly. This is dedicated to you, the unsung heroes of finance, and to the many economists who continue to make sound predictions, regardless of the price they pay for it.
But we’re not just here to complain, are we? What must we do to change the culture of the financial and economic professions? That’s a vital and urgent mission, and it’s good to know that people are working on it in brilliant and imaginative ways.
So thank you, Institute for New Economic Thinking [15], for your tireless and high-minded work on improving the nature and quality of the economics profession. We hope that more of us can join you on the high road, and soon. After all, criticism of others only offers a starting point. Building new and more effective models is the real and important work of the future.
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-04 16:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by nickname unavailable
deregulation, could they have been more wrong, naw: How to Succeed in Economics by … er, Totally Not Succeeding, honorable mentions go to Alan Greenspan, Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, the editorial board of theWall Street Journal, the editorial board of the Washington Post, summers, simpson/bowles, santelli, geithner
http://www.alternet.org/print/economy/5-powerful-men-who-were-catastrophically-wrong-about-economy-reaped-rewards-anyway
By RJ Eskow [2]
5 Powerful Men Who Were Catastrophically Wrong About the Economy—But Reaped Rewards Anyway
July 24, 2013 |
The boards are lighting up with consternation at the notion that Lawrence Summers might be rewarded for his vital role in triggering the 2008 financial crisis by being given the chairmanship of the Federal Reserve. Summers is reportedly lobbying hard for the job, along with many of his powerful Washington friends. (He has a lot of those.) There have been no denials from the White House, which may be treating these stories as a trial balloon—and a test of our national economic amnesia.
Larry Summers at the Fed? It sounds like madness—and it is. Summers epitomizes the old, misguided model of the economist as Washington power player and Wall Street money maker, ever willing to retrofit theories, assumptions and models to benefit those they serve.
This behavior doesn’t even have to be deliberate and cynical. Robert Johnson of the Institute for New Economic Thinking [3], a group which is dedicated to creating new and more effective economic paradigms, told AlterNet he believes economists in this mold internalize their beliefs and are sincere when they express them.
Cynical or not—and there are probably plenty of people in both camps—the economics field is filled with people whose erroneous thinking and conflicts of interest have been rewarded with ascendancy to ever-higher positions. In fact, if recent history is any example, moral probity and clear-headed analysis are obstacles to advancement.
Sound harsh? Here are five examples of financial forecasting failure as a career-enhancing technique.
1. Lawrence Summers.Economist Dean Baker [4]has the lowdown on Summers. Bill Clinton’s former Treasury Secretary is well-known in economic circles for such accomplishments as his brutal hectoring of Brooksley Born over her prophetic warnings about mortgages, and his open mockery of IMF chief economist Raghuram Rajan financial reform as a “Luddite” because Rajan was—oh, what’s that word again?—oh, yes: correct.
That story is instructive. At a 2005 conference, Rajan dared to question [5] the “financial innovation” which Summers and his crowd had both celebrated and made possible under Bill Clinton. Rajan suggested that the proliferation of risky instruments like mortgage-backed securities, together with the perverse incentives built into banker bonuses, could lead to a “full-blown financial crisis” and a “catastrophic meltdown.”
In response, Summers stood up in the audience and launched a tirade against Rajan. Summers argued strongly against increased regulation, claiming it would decrease Wall Street’s “productivity.
Rajan, was absolutely right, as we now know, while Summers was wrong. And he wasn’t just wrong as in “he made a bad call” wrong. He was wrong as in “He fought aggressively to deregulate Wall Street, ran roughshod over anyone who raised legitimate concerns, bullied anyone who tried to prevent the tragic events of 2008, took big fees from banking firms, and was nastily and abusively wrong, over and over and over.”
Larry Summers was that kind of wrong. Now he’s seriously being discussed as head of the Federal Reserve. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this country seems to have completely lost its mind.
In lobbying for this job, Summers and his allies are trying to elbow out the highly qualified Janet Yellen for the position. She has a much better track record, and would be the first woman to lead the Fed.
Sure, Summers has said the right things about job creation lately. Now we know why: he’s angling for a new gig. But he’s still the wrong person or the job. He’s demonstrated a propensity for spectacularly aggressive erroneousness. He’s made millions from the bankers he’d supposedly be regulating. (As the Washington Post reported in 2009, in a single year Summers made $5.2 million in fees from a hedge fund and $2.7 in Wall Street speaking fees.) And, as Baker points out, he’d be displacing a highly talented woman who would be perfect for the job.
2. Tim Geithner.We all remember Geithner’s tenure as Treasury Secretary. He ignored repeated warnings about unemployment, and as a result he presided over the longest and deepest jobs depression in many decades. His stewardship of the TARP bailout program was so lax that, as the US Inspector General reported [6], bankers were allowed to receive bonuses so large they were apparently illegal.
And who could forget his lordly pronouncements of Wall Street innocence, even as his own staff was hurriedly cutting deals to immunize bankers from criminal prosecution for their widespread fraud?
The long-term unemployed and impoverished Americans, whose numbers remain at record highs after four years of Secretary Geithner, need no help remembering his failure to revive the economy while in a position of power. Nor do the homeowners who were cruelly manipulated by fraudulent “extend and pretend” programs, thanks to Geithner’s HAMP program, which allowed banks to “pretend” they would modify a homeowner’s mortgage so they could collect payments for another year or two – that’s the “extend” part – before foreclosing on them anyway.
That process included numerous examples of bank fraud, both toward homeowners and local authorities, which was committed to permit bank foreclosures. Although that eventually led to a $25 billion fraud settlement, no bankers were indicted – or even lost their jobs—during the Geithner years or since.
But to understand how economics rewards the mistaken we need to go further back in history, to the time before Geithner became Secretary of the Treasury. Before taking that position, Geithner was head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Since Wall Street was in his region, that made Geithner the second-most important official in the entire Fed. How was his record there?
For starters, recent reports showed that Geithner was aware of the LIBOR scandal, in which bankers manipulated critical figures in order to rook borrowers such as municipalities, all the way back at the end of 2007. Banks routinely the figures they provided to the agency which uses them to set interbank lending rates, which affects roughly $350 trillion in derivatives. These numbers influence municipal bond rates, among many other things, costing cities as much as $6 billion [7].
As finance professor Andrew Lo said, “This dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets.” And yet when he learned of it, Geither did nothing more than send the agency a letter with some recommendations—a letter which had been written, not by his Fed staff, but by the banks themselves [8]. There’s no sign he followed up while he was Secretary of the Treasury. He certainly never told the American people about it.
• A petition signed by 11,000 honest appraisers which warned the Fed that lenders were “blacklisting honest appraisers” and sending business to ones that would give them the inflated valuations they wanted;
• Public warnings from the FBI, back in 2004, that an “epidemic” of mortgage fraud was underway and could create a financial “crisis.” (The cop on the beat was a better economic forecaster than either Summers or Geithner.)
• Statements from state prosecutors warning of fraud.
Other warnings came from trade groups, borrower representatives and from within the mortgage industry itself. But then, anyone who understands basic finance should have seen that fraud was being lavishly rewarded and honesty was being financially punished.
Our future Treasury Secretary didn’t see it coming. From a Federal Reserve meeting transcript dated January 2007: “How strong does the economy look outside autos and housing? Pretty strong, it seems. We see no troubling signs of weakness …”
3.Alan Simpson;and 4. Erskine Bowles.They’re funded by anti-government billionaire Pete Peterson. They were made co-chairs of President Obama’s “Deficit Commission.” And they’re repeatedly, remarkably wrong. They also very right-wing, according to the polls, which consistently show that their proposed government cuts are too extreme for many Republicans and are widely disliked by the public at large. And yet, in the distorted worldview of Washington and the major media, they’re repeatedly presented as “moderate” or “centrist.”
They’re also presented as economic experts—despite their penchant for wildly inaccurate predictions.
Alan Simpson is a former Republican senator from Wyoming. Erskine Bowles is a former Clinton White House apparatchik and hedge fund millionaire from Morgan Stanley. Two years ago, in June 2011, they made a bold prediction [10]: The United States will experience another terrible economic crisis—"the most predictable economic crisis in history"—if people don’t listen to them and radically cut government spending.
How was this disaster going to happen? It will come, they said, when “the ratings agencies find out we have no plan” to cut spending.
It’s July 2013. Their two years are up. There was no “crisis.” There’s terrible ongoing hardship, but there’s increasing consensus (even Larry Summers is on board) that the primary source of this continued difficulty is the spending reductions advocated by Bowles and Simpson.
Of course, the Terrible Two have suffered no career consequences for this or any other failed prediction they have made. They’re still quoted worshipfully in many newspapers, are seen frequently on television, and are treated as if they were people who understood economics.
In boardroom life, unlike real life, there is no penalty for failure. Mr. Bowles was handsomely compensated for his board work, just as he is warmly recognized for the probity which led him to predict that a new and massive debt-caused crisis would shatter our nation by sometime last month.
5. Rick Santelli.Government officials aren’t the only ones who can get their predictions spectacularly wrong and be rewarded for it. Tea Party hero Rick Santelli, who prognosticates on the economy for CNBC, has shown that economic ineptitude can be privatized.
Santelli screamed for years (literally, as this clip [12]demonstrates) about government stimulus spending, an anti-recessionary technique that has worked reliably over and over during economic times like these. “Stop spending!” Santelli shrieked.
Europe “stopped spending”—or at least slashed its spending—and the resulting austerity budgets have caused GDPs to collapse and unemployment to soar all across the continent. The United States did the same thing. The result? Our GDP also took a hit, while our unemployment figures linger somewhere between quasi-depressionary and catastrophic for large swathes of the population.
And yet Santelli’s visibility actually went up over this period. Why? Because Santelli also went into a hysterical fit on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was furious at the idea that homeowners, who had been victimized by crooked bankers, might get some help deal with underwater mortgages, while expressing no such outrage about the hundreds of billions in aid given to Wall Street banks; aid that benefited both Santelli and his irate audience of traders. Santelli used the felicitous phrase “Tea Party,” and a movement had a new name.
We almost wrote “and a movement was born,” but the Tea Party was actually born in corporate boardrooms, and in meetings with Republican party functionaries like Dick Armey. Santelli merely stumbled on a phrase. Despite his cockeyed predictions, his visibility went into overdrive—and a thousand silly hats were born.
Santelli’s not above a fib or two, if that’s what it takes to hide his poor track record. In another bad Santelli prediction, he said the Fed’s moves in 2009 would be extremely inflationary. They weren’t. Santelli’s response? “I never said it was about inflation,” he claimed recently. But Business Insider reviewed the recording in which Santelli said, quote, “of course it’s about inflation [13].”
Whoops. Professor Krugman [14] bemoaned the inflationistas for what he calls their “stunning lack of menschlichkeit.” That’s a Yiddish way of saying “what a bunch of jerks.”
Santelli and his mean-spirited friends on that Chicago floor screamed at homeowners, “Losers! Losers! Losers!” They might have been talking about the success rate of predictions made by Santelli and his ilk.
Conclusion: How to Succeed in Economics by … er, Totally Not Succeeding
This is, by necessity, only a partial list. Space limitations prevent us from recognizing all those who are qualified for recognition in this category. But honorable mentions go to Alan Greenspan, Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, the editorial board of theWall Street Journal, the editorial board of the Washington Post, your tipsy uncle at last Thanksgiving dinner, and all the fine folks who worked in risk management on Wall Street without noticing that something was seriously, seriously wrong.
Some risk managers did notice, and warned their bosses, only to see their careers stall accordingly. This is dedicated to you, the unsung heroes of finance, and to the many economists who continue to make sound predictions, regardless of the price they pay for it.
But we’re not just here to complain, are we? What must we do to change the culture of the financial and economic professions? That’s a vital and urgent mission, and it’s good to know that people are working on it in brilliant and imaginative ways.
So thank you, Institute for New Economic Thinking [15], for your tireless and high-minded work on improving the nature and quality of the economics profession. We hope that more of us can join you on the high road, and soon. After all, criticism of others only offers a starting point. Building new and more effective models is the real and important work of the future.
The retard had to delete all my words to get rid of context and fact.


I didn't write anything in "this" post above except the subject line.

Noth'n but love,
BeamMeUpScotty
Sleepalot
2013-08-04 21:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Actually the preamble to the constitution does say the purpose of the
document is to limit government.
The Romans understood that: "where there are the most laws, there is the least
justice."
nickname unavailable
2013-08-05 22:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sleepalot
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Actually the preamble to the constitution does say the purpose of the
document is to limit government.
The Romans understood that: "where there are the most laws, there is the least
justice."
that is the type of thinking that led to the collapse of roman rule of law, and ushered in the dark ages.


the founders did not want that.


definition of a preamble: A preliminary statement, especially the introduction to a formal document that serves to explain its purpose. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare….


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/preamble

1. A preliminary statement, especially the introduction to a formal document that serves to explain its purpose.
2. An introductory occurrence or fact; a preliminary.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that the Constitution is meant to serve. In general terms it states, and courts have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped it would achieve (especially as compared with the Articles of Confederation).

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


the majority of the founders were liberals, who crafted the constitution of the united states with broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, tariff, negate state law, promote and provide for the general welfare, mandate, to ensure domestic tranquility, and to To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.




THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be
made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be
made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,
any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.

The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the
Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the
United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the
constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a
federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

the constitution of the united states was a anti-conservative statement by the majority of the founders of the united states of america.
James
2013-08-05 02:08:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner
We have indeed been governed into bankruptcy.
snip>>>
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
*Rumination*
#67 - The least government necessary is the best government possible.
A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by
a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations
from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

a.. From bondage to spiritual faith;
b.. From spiritual faith to great courage;
c.. From courage to liberty;
d.. From liberty to abundance;
e.. From abundance to selfishness;
f.. From selfishness to complacency;
g.. From complacency to apathy;
h.. From apathy to dependence;
i.. From dependence back into bondage.
Topaz
2013-08-06 02:51:52 UTC
Permalink
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Sparky


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-06 03:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Sparky
http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/
http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
They also go bankrupt from law suits for selling crap and calling it food.

Do you buy cans that say "unkown shit in a can" because that is what
will get you sick and the methods have become better and more bullet
proof since then. NOT through government but through corporations doing
the research and development.


Today there are cans that have no expiration, juts a "best when used by"
as a date of reference.
--
*Rumination*
#22 - Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
Topaz
2013-08-06 09:42:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:06:02 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Sparky
They also go bankrupt from law suits for selling crap and calling it food.
Do you buy cans that say "unkown shit in a can" because that is what
will get you sick and the methods have become better and more bullet
proof since then. NOT through government but through corporations doing
the research and development.
Today there are cans that have no expiration, juts a "best when used by"
as a date of reference.
Your government is trash because it is for affirmative action and
other liberal nonsense.

That is no reason to oppose the good things government should do.
Stopping corporate greed is very important for example.

We should have a government that is against capitalism and
libertarianism and also one that is for the good old days:


In the good old days a man could afford children and his wife didn't
have to work. The biggest problem in schools was gum chewing. But it
was more than that. It was the entire culture. Look in the old movies
and you can see it. Men were men. Women were women. And everybody was
White.

Look at America now. There are non-Whites everywhere. Anyone can
see Black neighborhoods and not safe and not where you want to live.
America is slowly turning into a third world country.

The National Socialists were fighting for the good old days. They
were fighting for civilization.

The Jews make the movies and control the media. Now you can hardly
go to the movies without seeing race-mixing and feminism. Hopefully
the world will not continue to go down the tubes forever. If we stop
the Jews from controlling the media and society we can be on the path
back to the good old days.

Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be
secured. This was the Press. The Jew exercised all his skill and
tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began
gradually to control public life in its entirety."

Vice President Joe Biden said:

"Jewish heritage has shaped who we are - all of us - as much or more
than any other factor in the last 223 years. And that's a fact," Biden
told a gathering of Jewish leaders on May 21 in Washington, DC. "The
truth is that Jewish heritage, Jewish culture, Jewish values are such
an essential part of who we are that it's fair to say that Jewish
heritage is American heritage," he also said.

Biden knows what's he talking about. He was a US Senator for 26 years,
held important posts in Congress, and was twice a US presidential
candidate. Few men have been more deeply involved in Washington
politics, or are more intimately familiar with the realities of power
in American public life.

Even though Jews make up only one or two percent of the US population,
the Jewish role in American cultural and political life has been
"outsized" and "immense," Biden said.

"You make up eleven percent of the seats in the United States
Congress," he told his Jewish audience. He might also have mentioned
that three of the nine members of the US Supreme Court are Jewish, and
that Jews are vastly overrepresented in other high-level federal,
state and city government posts, including chairman of the Federal
Reserve System, and as the mayors of America's three most populous
cities.

"The Jewish people have contributed greatly to America. No group has
had such an outsized influence per capita," he also said. Biden went
on to speak about the Jewish role in shaping popular attitudes with
regard to race relations, the role of women in society, and "gay
rights," and thereby in changing policies, laws and behavior.

"I believe what affects the [social- political] movements in America,
what affects our attitudes in America, are as much the culture and the
arts as anything else ... It wasn't anything we [politicians]
legislatively did," he went on. "It was [such television shows as]
'Will and Grace,' it was the social media. Literally. That's what
changed peoples' attitudes. That's why I was so certain that the vast
majority of people would embrace, and rapidly embrace" same-sex
marriage.

"Think - behind of all that, I bet you 85 percent of those changes,
whether it's in Hollywood or social media, are a consequence of Jewish
leaders in the industry. The influence is immense, the influence is
immense," he said.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-06 04:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable), the FDA was created that now becomes a
politically-controlled all-powerful entity that controls markets without
rhyme or reason.

The FDA is a turd and without any constitutional basis or authority.
nickname unavailable
2013-08-06 05:29:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable), the FDA was created that now becomes a
politically-controlled all-powerful entity that controls markets without
rhyme or reason.
The FDA is a turd and without any constitutional basis or authority.
you can prove that the fda has no regulatory authority correct? because i can show you regulation of commerce is enshrined in the constitution. oh wait, i have shown you that repeatedly, yet you keep lying.
if you do not like deregulation(LIBERTY), regulatory capture by market insiders(LIBERTY AND RATIONAL SELF INTERESTS), then urge your congressman to dump corporatism(LIBERTY for a few, TYRANNY for the many), and respect the constitution.
Clave
2013-08-06 05:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable)...
LOFL -- yes, AFTER the damage has been done, you tool.

Jim
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-06 13:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable)...
LOFL -- yes, AFTER the damage has been done, you tool.
Jim
They still have tainted peanut butter that no government inspector finds
until after the fact..... So your government solution is a failed
solution.

Government isn't here to stop crime before it can happen, and definitely
NOT by violating our rights.


The absolute violation of my rights by government to maybe catch someone
that may or may not violate my rights is NOT an equal trade off or even
constitutional behavior.

I suppose that the government could stop many crimes if they ignored the
constitution and opened your life up for everyone to see and maybe
locked you up in a re-education camp when you started to show any signs
of individualism.

But that wouldn't be America any more than having the FDA micromanage
every bite of food you eat or the Department of education tell you what
you will learn and when you will learn it and from whom you will learn it.
Topaz
2013-08-08 02:52:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 09:34:05 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
They still have tainted peanut butter that no government inspector finds
until after the fact..... So your government solution is a failed
solution.
That is false. There would be a lot more tainted food if there were no
laws and regulations.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Government isn't here to stop crime before it can happen, and definitely
NOT by violating our rights.
Laws stop crime before it happens. So what if they don't stop all of
it. There would be thousands of times more murders if there were no
laws against murder.

And no one has a right to sell tainted food.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
The absolute violation of my rights by government to maybe catch someone
that may or may not violate my rights is NOT an equal trade off or even
constitutional behavior.
There should be laws against selling tainted food. If people like you
don't like that it may be unfortunate, but we should what is best for
the greater good whether you like it or not.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
I suppose that the government could stop many crimes if they ignored the
constitution and opened your life up for everyone to see and maybe
locked you up in a re-education camp when you started to show any signs
of individualism.
The government you have now is trash because it is run by the wrong
people. But outlawing tainted food is not one of the things that are
wrong about it.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
But that wouldn't be America any more than having the FDA micromanage
every bite of food you eat or the Department of education tell you what
you will learn and when you will learn it and from whom you will learn it.
We should have public schools. All children should be educated and not
just the rich ones. Of course the schools we have now are run by the
wrong kind of people. They should be called enemy brainwashing camps.

Instead of pointing out what is wrong with the schools, libertarians
are for not having public schools at all. No one should listen to
libertarians. They may know that something is wrong, but they have the
wrong answers to it.




http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Topaz
2013-08-06 09:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable), the FDA was created that now becomes a
politically-controlled all-powerful entity that controls markets without
rhyme or reason.
The FDA is a turd and without any constitutional basis or authority.
We should have laws to protect us from bad food. Whether the FDA is a
turd or not doesn't change the fact that libertarianism is bad news.

"Libertarians believe that once one is burned by charlatans,
they'll simply stop doing business with the ogres who proselytize
inferior work and product. But, isn't the hue and cry for governmental
regulation the mechanism that the public demands when they've been
ripped-off by nefarious business people? In many cases, especially
with bigger ticket items, they don't have the luxury of not doing
business with a sinister plutocrat, but must buy and weep over shoddy
business practices...

"Surely, we've seen enough charlatans to
know that the market itself cannot monitor its own activities to the
good of all!"

D. Stephen Heersink

http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Werner
2013-08-06 13:44:12 UTC
Permalink
The country is bankrupt in more ways than just economic. Libertarians had nothing to do with it. Democrats and Republicns were voted into office and made all the rules.

http://www.endit.info/
Topaz
2013-08-08 02:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner
The country is bankrupt in more ways than just economic.
True
Post by Werner
Libertarians had nothing to do with it. Democrats and Republicns were voted into office and made all the rules.
All three are the problem. How would libertarians improve matters?



http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-06 14:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs! Left to their own accord, corporations will
do anything that improves the bottom line."
Correct. And instead of doing the rational thing (holding producers
accountable), the FDA was created that now becomes a
politically-controlled all-powerful entity that controls markets without
rhyme or reason.
The FDA is a turd and without any constitutional basis or authority.
We should have laws to protect us from bad food. Whether the FDA is a
turd or not doesn't change the fact that libertarianism is bad news.
We have the FDA.

We have laws that "protect us from bad food".

We still have plenty of bad food on the market. Looks like your idea
doesn't work.
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
We have the FDA.
We have laws that "protect us from bad food".
We still have plenty of bad food on the market. Looks like your idea
doesn't work.
That is false. Things would be a lot worse if there were no laws. Take
murder for another example. It still happens, but if there were no
laws against it then it would be thousands of times worse.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Bert
2013-08-06 13:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.

The author of the legislation, Senator Royal Copeland of New York, was a
homeopathic "doctor."

But then, you're a neo-Nazi.
--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-06 13:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
And so they instead call them endangered species to stop the access of
Rhino horn or Tiger penis.....
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-07 16:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
--
*Rumination*
#21 - You can't make chicken salad with chicken shit.
pyotr filipivich
2013-08-07 17:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Peter Franks
2013-08-07 18:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Yes, very good points. Protection is appropriate (after all,
government's primary purpose /should/ be the protection of rights...).
Unilateral control is never appropriate, and accordingly, has never been
delegated to the federal government.
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Yes, very good points. Protection is appropriate (after all,
government's primary purpose /should/ be the protection of rights...).
Unilateral control is never appropriate, and accordingly, has never been
delegated to the federal government.
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-07 21:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Yes, very good points. Protection is appropriate (after all,
government's primary purpose /should/ be the protection of rights...).
Unilateral control is never appropriate, and accordingly, has never been
delegated to the federal government.
A government should make things good for the citizens.
No it should not. Citizens make things good for themselves. Government
is to protect rights, NOT make things good.
Post by Topaz
Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Who decides what is good?
Topaz
2013-08-08 01:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens.
No it should not.
Yes it should.
Post by Peter Franks
Citizens make things good for themselves. Government
is to protect rights, NOT make things good.
Citizens should make things good for themselves, but also the
government should make things good.


Here are some quotes from "The Eleventh Hour" by John Tyndall

"For a short time, Britons from all regions of the country and its
Empire, and from every social background, came together in a single
cause, casting aside all previous political party and class divisions
and joined hands in a common comradeship of the trenches.

And for the first time in centuries politicians in this country put
aside party warfare and joined forces in working for a single goal. A
coalition government was formed in 1916 and proceeded to coordinate
the whole national life in one mighty endeavor. Laissez-faire
Economics were dropped as Britain found that these methods, practiced
so long in the years of peace had rendered her industry hopelessly
incapable of producing her needs of survival in this titanic conflict.
New industries, such as chemicals, machine tools and optics, had to be
built practically from scratch, while others, such as electricity,
aircraft and aero-engines, had to be greatly expanded, in order to
provide the sinews of war; and this was done mainly on the initiative
of the state. By the end of the war, tremendous strides had been made
in making good these previous shortcomings of industry. What the
theoretical stimulus of the "free market" had failed to do for decades
beforehand was done in just three years of corporate effort, achieved
by firm national leadership directing economic resources, and by the
whole nation, and Empire, working as a team."
"Could not the super-human efforts displayed on the battlefield in the
face of a dangerous adversity now be displayed again in the creation,
from out of the rubble of newly born nations?"

"Sir Oswald Mosley... had crossed to the Labour benches after
despairing of the Tories' ability or will to overcome the evils of
poverty and unemployment in post 1918 Britain...

In time, however, Mosley came to recognize that in the ranks of
Labour, however ideal the ends, there was a total incomprehension of,
combined an unwillingness to accept, the necessary means... he said:

"This nation has to be mobilized and rallied for a tremendous effort,
and who can do that except the government of the day?"

In the simplest terms, nationalism is no more than team spirit. Just
as the school, the firm the regiment and the rugby team need, each in
its own way to be infused with a pride of identity and a desire to
win, so must nations, if they are to be effective forces for the
furtherance of their own interests and for their survival in the
world, be galvanized by the same vital forces."
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is good?
Obviously everyone being prosperous is good. And there are the good
old days:

In the good old days a man could afford children and his wife didn't
have to work. The biggest problem in schools was gum chewing. But it
was more than that. It was the entire culture. Look in the old movies
and you can see it. Men were men. Women were women. And everybody was
White.

Look at America now. There are non-Whites everywhere. Anyone can
see Black neighborhoods and not safe and not where you want to live.
America is slowly turning into a third world country.

The National Socialists were fighting for the good old days. They
were fighting for civilization.

The Jews make the movies and control the media. Now you can hardly
go to the movies without seeing race-mixing and feminism. Hopefully
the world will not continue to go down the tubes forever. If we stop
the Jews from controlling the media and society we can be on the path
back to the good old days.

Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be
secured. This was the Press. The Jew exercised all his skill and
tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began
gradually to control public life in its entirety."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 04:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens.
No it should not.
Yes it should.
No it should not.

Let's break this down to the fundamental: should you make things good
for me? Of course not. So then how and why can you delegate that
authority to government?
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Citizens make things good for themselves. Government
is to protect rights, NOT make things good.
Citizens should make things good for themselves, but also the
government should make things good.
No. Government protects rights.
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is good?
Obviously everyone being prosperous is good. And there are the good
Is English a second language to you?!

WHO DECIDES WHAT IS GOOD?!
Topaz
2013-08-08 21:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens.
No it should not.
Yes it should.
No it should not.
Let's break this down to the fundamental: should you make things good
for me?
I should be taxed to help fellow citizens in need.
Post by Peter Franks
Of course not. So then how and why can you delegate that
authority to government?
A government that does not make things good for people should be
flushed away and replaced by a government that does.
Post by Peter Franks
No. Government protects rights.
A decent government should do many things to make life good for the
citizens.
Post by Peter Franks
Is English a second language to you?!
No
Post by Peter Franks
WHO DECIDES WHAT IS GOOD?!
I am telling you what is good.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 23:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens.
No it should not.
Yes it should.
No it should not.
Let's break this down to the fundamental: should you make things good
for me?
I should be taxed to help fellow citizens in need.
Post by Peter Franks
Of course not. So then how and why can you delegate that
authority to government?
A government that does not make things good for people should be
flushed away and replaced by a government that does.
Post by Peter Franks
No. Government protects rights.
A decent government should do many things to make life good for the
citizens.
Post by Peter Franks
Is English a second language to you?!
No
Post by Peter Franks
WHO DECIDES WHAT IS GOOD?!
I am telling you what is good.
And here we arrive at the core: you think that you've been empowered
and authorized to decide what is best for someone else. In short, you
feel that you should rule over others.

You don't rule over me. End of story.
Topaz
2013-08-09 01:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
And here we arrive at the core: you think that you've been empowered
and authorized to decide what is best for someone else. In short, you
feel that you should rule over others.
You don't rule over me. End of story.
Libertarians don't want laws to protect us from bad food for one
thing. Libertarianism would be a complete disaster. For example
suppose a libertarian doesn't mind driving on dirt roads and doesn't
want to pay taxes to have the roads paved. We should all pay our fair
share for such things and the greater good is to pave the roads.
Libertarianism is unworkable and it is nonsense. End of story.


Many people think they arrive at their own ideas all by themselves,
when in fact their ideas are usually made for them by Hollywood. Take
two movies that are anti-leadership propaganda, Gladiator, and
Braveheart.

In Gladiator they show a corrupt leader of Rome, but would it be
corrupt if Maximus was the leader? That would be much better than
having the lame senators running Rome. And of course in Braveheart the
Scots should have made William their leader. If he was the leader he
could have put the corrupt nobles in their place.

The purpose of the propaganda is to stop good people from wanting
power. The people who have the real power now, the bankers and the
media, are not threatened in the least by libertarians. But if there
was a leader that was really for the people they know they would be
put in their place.

In democracies money talks and those who can buy TV stations are
the rulers. These rulers don't even claim to be for anything but their
own profits and interests. People are much better off with a good
leader who has power above the money power.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 03:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Yes, very good points. Protection is appropriate (after all,
government's primary purpose /should/ be the protection of rights...).
Unilateral control is never appropriate, and accordingly, has never been
delegated to the federal government.
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?

Does the government do as they did when Clinton killed the children at
Waco to Save them from abuse. What is the good in that?

Putting me in jail so I can't buy what I want or need is ridiculous, yet
that's how they do things.
--
*Rumination*
#1.0.1 - because nothing creates economic chaos more than paying your debts?
Topaz
2013-08-08 03:13:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Does the government do as they did when Clinton killed the children at
Waco to Save them from abuse. What is the good in that?
Well that is changing the subject a bit don't you think. We have the
wrong kind of government today. It is run by the same people who were
behind Communism. The reason they hated the people in Waco is because
they were Christian. And Christians have traditionally been against
the feminists and sodomites. And these are two of the main things this
government is for, another one being race mixing.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Putting me in jail so I can't buy what I want or need is ridiculous, yet
that's how they do things.
Laws against selling tainted food mean that those who sell it are in
trouble. It is your sentence above that is ridiculous.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 04:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't? Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 13:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't? Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
That would be the pro slavery act of ObamaCare where they can force you
to buy things or pay the fines.
--
*Rumination*
#50 - Negotiating with Liberals is like trying to negotiate with a
serial child molester, you have to ask where is middle ground with a
child molester, will you allow them 100 free molestings before they pay
the penalty? Where is middle ground with abortion, do the Liberals
just kill the dark ones or the dumb ones or the ugly ones in the uterus?
Isn't all violence against children inside a uterus and outside equally
disgusting and sick?
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 15:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't? Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
That would be the pro slavery act of ObamaCare where they can force you
to buy things or pay the fines.
For which he has NO authority to do.
nickname unavailable
2013-08-08 23:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't? Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
That would be the pro slavery act of ObamaCare where they can force you
to buy things or pay the fines.
For which he has NO authority to do.
you keep making the same stupid statements over and over again.





The Constitution of the United States
Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic tranquility:)))


one would think you are incapable of learning.
pyotr filipivich
2013-08-08 17:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't? Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
That would be the pro slavery act of ObamaCare where they can force you
to buy things or pay the fines.
"If you want to buy Snake Oil, you can." If you can find a
manufacturer still open which can meet the safety, environmental,
diversity, equal opportunity and tax benefit standards, as determined
by the multitude of officers we shall appoint to swarm across the
land.
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Topaz
2013-08-08 21:16:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:08:16 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
That would be the pro slavery act of ObamaCare where they can force you
to buy things or pay the fines.
Insurance companies are like banks, that is, worthless parasites.
Both should be nationalized. We should stop the parasites from making
billions while not doing anything constructive.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Topaz
2013-08-08 21:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't?
correct
Post by Peter Franks
Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
You should be protected from being ripped off for your own good.

http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 23:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by nickname unavailable
Post by Peter Franks
I want to buy Snake Oil. Are you saying that I can't?
correct
Post by Peter Franks
Under what
authority can you say what I can and can't buy?
You should be protected from being ripped off for your own good.
Ah yes, save me from myself. Thank you, but no.

The only saving I need is from people like you.

Look, if you want to be a socialist, so be it, but stop *forcing* me to
be socialist. The toughest lesson that a socialist learns is that as
soon as he stops forcing his way on others, the entire socialist machine
stops dead in its tracks.
Topaz
2013-08-09 01:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Ah yes, save me from myself. Thank you, but no.
The only saving I need is from people like you.
We should not allow con men to rip people off. Libertarianism would
legalize heroin and every other bad thing. It would be hell on earth.
The reason there are no libertarian countries is because it is
complete nonsense. We should pay our fair share in taxes to pay for
roads and street lights and other good things. If a citizen is about
to do something really stupid we should save them from themselves.
That is good, but libertarians don't get it.
Post by Peter Franks
Look, if you want to be a socialist, so be it, but stop *forcing* me to
be socialist. The toughest lesson that a socialist learns is that as
soon as he stops forcing his way on others, the entire socialist machine
stops dead in its tracks.
That is nonsense.

Capitalism and Communism are both bad. The problem with
capitalism is that it puts no special value on people. Capitalism is
based on supply and demand. A capitalist company that made potato
chips for example would need--X number of potatoes, Y amount of salt,
and Z number of human beings for labor. The human beings have no more
value than the potatoes or the salt. And they consider it good to pay
the humans as little as they possibly can to increase their profits.

According to capitalist theory people must compete to see who
will work for the least pennies per hour. They say everyone must
compete with the people in Mexico and China to see who will work for
the fewest pennies. If a company makes billions in profit while paying
its employees starvation wages that is perfectly fine. At least the
sacred laws of supply and demand are not violated. If the people die
of starvation that is fine too. You can always get more people. If
there is not enough work for everyone to do then they think people
need to die off. Ebenezer Scrooge did everything right according to
the capitalists and followed the beliefs and values of capitalism.

The apologists for the Scrooges correctly point out that
people only start business for a profit. Of course that is true.
Anyone can see that communism is a big mistake. But wouldn't people
start the business for only millions in profits rather than billions?
What if there were laws that made sure working people got a reasonable
share of the profit? Would that be so terrible?

In a hypothetical case suppose technology progressed so far that
all
the work were done by machines. Huge farms gathering food and all
automated. You would think everything would be great, but under
capitalism the people would starve because there wouldn't be enough
jobs.

Capitalists oppose welfare and say that orphans and other needy
people should be helped by charity. How much charity would there be
when capitalists openly say that selfishness is a great virtue? If
there was no welfare then the charitable people would have to pay for
everything while most people would not pay one thin dime. We have
welfare so people all pay their fair share. It is part of having
civilization.

We have many laws that make things better for people.
There are laws that give people extra pay if they work over forty
hours. There are laws that ensure people will have retirement.
Capitalism is for doing away with the laws so businesses can be free
to be as greedy as possible.There are laws that keep people from
getting ripped off when they buy a house. Capitalism is against that.
Capitalism is bad for people.




http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 14:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:01:35 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
yet they lock up people that buy drugs even "safe" pharmaceuticals and
Why is a blood pressure pill only legal to have if you have a
prescription for it? They lock you up for buying paraphernalia and
alcohol and cigarettes and people that buy sex..... then they lock up
people that buy gold or other things that they are not licensed to do
so. The government arrests you in some cases if you buy a gun and
that's a right that's explicit in the constitution.
--
*Rumination*
#44 - Love your country, but fear your Government, and when they say
we're here from the government and we're here to help.... run Forest run.
Topaz
2013-08-08 21:34:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:55:48 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
No, the government should lock up those who sell the Snake Oil, if
they refuse to stop selling it.
yet they lock up people that buy drugs even "safe" pharmaceuticals and
They should only lock up those who sell drugs illegally.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Why is a blood pressure pill only legal to have if you have a
prescription for it?
I don't know but probably there is a good reason.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
They lock you up for buying paraphernalia
Probably people buy paraphaernalia to use drugs. Though it's possible
that someone could buy paraphernalia just because they think it's
cool. So it looks like they should have to get a special permit in
that case.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
and
alcohol
We would be major party poopers to outlaw alcohol, though we should
have laws regarding it.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
and cigarettes
We should outlaw cigarettes, but we can't just do that right now,
because there would be riots. So we should find methods to gradually
outlaw them.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
and people that buy sex.....
The people selling it are usually in great need of money. That is
exploitation and we should not allow that.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
then they lock up
people that buy gold or other things that they are not licensed to do
so.
I don't know why you need a license to buy gold. Maybe I'm missing
something.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
The government arrests you in some cases if you buy a gun and
that's a right that's explicit in the constitution.
We should have a government that is pro-gun. There could be a reason
someone should be be allowed to buy a gun, but it should be a darn
good reason.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
pyotr filipivich
2013-08-08 05:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Yes, very good points. Protection is appropriate (after all,
government's primary purpose /should/ be the protection of rights...).
Unilateral control is never appropriate, and accordingly, has never been
delegated to the federal government.
A government should make things good for the citizens. Certainly
protecting them from being ripped of by Snake Oil salesmen is good for
the citizens.
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
Does the government do as they did when Clinton killed the children at
Waco to Save them from abuse. What is the good in that?
Putting me in jail so I can't buy what I want or need is ridiculous, yet
that's how they do things.
It is how Topaz would do it. Which is dumb. The other way of
doing it is to require all manufacturers to have their products pass a
series of tests before they will be granted permission to sell them.
Something which apparently the liberal Democrats (like Topaz) also
find of little concern.

I'd rather that the FDA be reconstituted under it's old
legislation, the Pure Food and Drug Act. With the sole mandate to
make sure that what is sold, really contains what it claims to
contain. And all the rest. That the sausage really is gluten free.
That the "concentrated cane juice" really is concentrated cane juice
and not high fructose corn syrup. (It is still "sugar" either way.)
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Topaz
2013-08-08 21:46:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:50:07 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
Does the government do as they did when Clinton killed the children at
Waco to Save them from abuse. What is the good in that?
Putting me in jail so I can't buy what I want or need is ridiculous, yet
that's how they do things.
It is how Topaz would do it. Which is dumb.
This was about snake oil which is clearly a rip off. We should not
allow con men to operate. If someone wants snake oil, knowing that it
is worthless and just want it for a joke or something, then they
should have to get a permit showing that they are not being ripped
off.
Post by pyotr filipivich
The other way of
doing it is to require all manufacturers to have their products pass a
series of tests before they will be granted permission to sell them.
Something which apparently the liberal Democrats (like Topaz) also
find of little concern.
I am not a liberal Democrat and clearly snake oil would not pass the
test.
Post by pyotr filipivich
I'd rather that the FDA be reconstituted under it's old
legislation, the Pure Food and Drug Act. With the sole mandate to
make sure that what is sold, really contains what it claims to
contain. And all the rest. That the sausage really is gluten free.
That the "concentrated cane juice" really is concentrated cane juice
and not high fructose corn syrup. (It is still "sugar" either way.)
http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 23:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:50:07 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Depends.... what does that entail, does the government lock you up to
stop you from buying Snake Oil?
Does the government do as they did when Clinton killed the children at
Waco to Save them from abuse. What is the good in that?
Putting me in jail so I can't buy what I want or need is ridiculous, yet
that's how they do things.
It is how Topaz would do it. Which is dumb.
This was about snake oil which is clearly a rip off. We should not
allow con men to operate. If someone wants snake oil, knowing that it
is worthless and just want it for a joke or something, then they
should have to get a permit showing that they are not being ripped
off.
You know, maybe you are right after all. We should definitely outlaw
worthless con-men schemes.

Let's start with socialism. Provably worthless, destructive, full of
propaganda and arguably the biggest rip off the world has ever seen,
foisted on the illiterate/ignorant by the greatest rip-off artists that
have ever walked on this planet.
Topaz
2013-08-09 01:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
You know, maybe you are right after all. We should definitely outlaw
worthless con-men schemes.
Let's start with socialism. Provably worthless, destructive, full of
propaganda and arguably the biggest rip off the world has ever seen,
foisted on the illiterate/ignorant by the greatest rip-off artists that
have ever walked on this planet.
That is false.

We should have laws to stop greed. All citizens who are willing to
work should have food and shelter. We should not just compete for jobs
to see who will work for the fewest pennies. Capitalists talk people
into sawing off the branch on which they are sitting. And they say we
are being ripped off if we don't. We should pay taxes to care for
orphans and others in need. Capitalists say we are being ripped off.
We teach children not to be selfish so they can grow up to be good
people and not capitalists.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:57:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:55:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
We should protect people from being ripped off. Certainly Snake Oil is
a rip off.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Gunner Asch
2013-08-07 22:02:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:55:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Its fascinating to note how tied up with Big Pharma the FDA is as
well. Many people (myself included) use DMSO and have for years..yet
the FDA has said its use on humans is a big ..blank

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_169.html

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

Read the information link above.

Yet DMSO is sold as an animal anti-inflammitory to the horse racing
industry.

Some precautions about it....not the least is mega garlic breath..

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2425322

Good shit Maynard..if you use it Properly.


--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)
pyotr filipivich
2013-08-08 05:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:55:13 -0700, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us.... That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted. Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
The idea is sound: some agency with clout to verify that food and
drugs be "pure" and "uncontaminated". After all, it is good to know
that the Snake Oil I am buying is pure snake oil, unadulterated by
Otter Water or Panther Sweat.
However, somewhere along the line the Office for Pure Food and
Drugs, became the FDA, which has the "mandate" to evaluate the
effectiveness of everything. Meaning, as we have seen, that I can no
longer buy Snake Oil (pure or otherwise) because some Federal Employee
doesn't believe it efficacious.
Its fascinating to note how tied up with Big Pharma the FDA is as
Much how the Interstate Railroad Commission was "captured" by the
representatives of the railroads.
Post by Topaz
well. Many people (myself included) use DMSO and have for years..yet
the FDA has said its use on humans is a big ..blank
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_169.html
http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm
Read the information link above.
Yet DMSO is sold as an animal anti-inflammitory to the horse racing
industry.
Some precautions about it....not the least is mega garlic breath..
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2425322
Good shit Maynard..if you use it Properly.
Ayup.
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:53:17 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 12:32:18 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth
NO, we understand they are fucking us....
No, they are helping us greatly. They only inconvenience unworthy
types who can't see how important this law is.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
That they are just Growth of
government for no good reason. Food is still tainted.
If there were no laws and regulations there would be much more tainted
food. Laws are good because they stop most of the problems. Take
murder for another example. There are still murders, but if there were
no laws against it then it would be thousands of times worse.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Private Law suits
do as much or more to solve the problems.
That is very wrong. Like the other poster said, they act AFTER the
damage is done. Besides that such law suits are the real pain. We
should now right up front what is legal and what is not.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:46:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 09:52:07 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
And so they instead call them endangered species to stop the access of
Rhino horn or Tiger penis.....
It is a good idea to protect endangered species. But any of them that
might harm people, like tigers, should all be in zoos.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-06 13:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
And so they instead call them endangered species to stop the access of
Rhino horn or Tiger penis.....


I hear that someone has a new drink/food that they call "soylent" that
is powdered and has all the nutrition you need to live on.

I'm sure that people like Obama and you that believe we should all be
forced to be fair and equal will want a law that makes any other food
illegal so that we all get the equal amount of Soylent to keep us alive
and no more.


After all it would only be *FAIR*
--
*Rumination*
#13 - Being Liberal means, never knowing that, you are your own worst enemy.
Topaz
2013-08-07 21:11:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 09:59:11 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
And so they instead call them endangered species to stop the access of
Rhino horn or Tiger penis.....
I hear that someone has a new drink/food that they call "soylent" that
is powdered and has all the nutrition you need to live on.
I'm sure that people like Obama and you that believe we should all be
forced to be fair and equal will want a law that makes any other food
illegal so that we all get the equal amount of Soylent to keep us alive
and no more.
After all it would only be *FAIR*
That is illogical. Soylent green, or people, is not legal. That is why
your post makes no sense. Obviously selling Soylent should not be
allowed. That is just another example of why laws and regulation are
good.

You write something about Obama and equality and one can see what you
are getting at and start to agree with you. And then suddenly come out
with illogic and unsound reasoning.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 02:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 09:59:11 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
And so they instead call them endangered species to stop the access of
Rhino horn or Tiger penis.....
I hear that someone has a new drink/food that they call "soylent" that
is powdered and has all the nutrition you need to live on.
I'm sure that people like Obama and THOSE that believe we should all be
forced to be fair and equal will want a law that makes all other food
illegal so that we all get the equal amount of Soylent to keep us alive
and no more.
After all it would only be *FAIR*
That is illogical. Soylent green, or people, is not legal. That is why
your post makes no sense. Obviously selling Soylent should not be
allowed. That is just another example of why laws and regulation are
good.
The new soylent is SOY BEAN and LENTIL BEAN and more and it's all
vegetarian.
Post by Topaz
You write something about Obama and equality and one can see what you
are getting at and start to agree with you. And then suddenly come out
with illogic and unsound reasoning.
I think I said that someone came up with "Soylent" That's what he calls
it. It's NOT people. At least NOT yet.
Topaz
2013-08-08 03:17:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:37:44 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
The new soylent is SOY BEAN and LENTIL BEAN and more and it's all
vegetarian.
So, if it is banned, what do they say the reason is. In short, what
does your post mean?
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
I think I said that someone came up with "Soylent" That's what he calls
it. It's NOT people. At least NOT yet.
http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-06 14:52:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?

Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Bert
2013-08-06 15:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food
and Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds
of tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?
Nope; I'm saying that you shouldn't expect corrupt politicians to do
anything to protect you.

The author of the legislation which created the FDA, Senator Royal
Copeland of New York, was a homeopathic "doctor."
--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
Peter Franks
2013-08-06 17:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food
and Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds
of tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?
Nope; I'm saying that you shouldn't expect corrupt politicians to do
anything to protect you.
Are a proponent of the FDA?
Post by Bert
The author of the legislation which created the FDA, Senator Royal
Copeland of New York, was a homeopathic "doctor."
Well, that speaks to the lack of a check and balance on the creation of
a national/centralized government.

BTW: Whatever Copeland did as a pork politician has only gotten worse.
MUCH worse.
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-07 04:30:50 UTC
Permalink
I heard George Zimmerman was going to change his name to "Ben Ghazi"



So that the Liberal news media will never mention him either.
--
*Rumination*
#3 - Liberals live in fear of anyone that promotes the notion of
self-sufficiency and responsible behavior.
Peter Franks
2013-08-07 05:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
I heard George Zimmerman was going to change his name to "Ben Ghazi"
So that the Liberal news media will never mention him either.
Lol. Isn't that the truth.
Clave
2013-08-07 05:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
I heard George Zimmerman was going to change his name to "Ben Ghazi"
That joke's 15 minutes was up about two weeks ago.

Jim
Bert
2013-08-08 13:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Nope; I'm saying that you shouldn't expect corrupt politicians to do
anything to protect you.
Are a proponent of the FDA?
What is it about "you shouldn't expect corrupt politicians to do
anything to protect you" that makes you ask that question?
--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
Topaz
2013-08-07 21:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food
and Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds
of tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?
Nope; I'm saying that you shouldn't expect corrupt politicians to do
anything to protect you.
Then you should get leaders who are not corrupt.
Post by Bert
The author of the legislation which created the FDA, Senator Royal
Copeland of New York, was a homeopathic "doctor."
http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Topaz
2013-08-07 21:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?
Yes, if it is worthless it is not worth any money and it is a rip off.
We should protect people from being ripped off.
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Experts in the materials involved. You are right that it is hard to
prove beyond doubt that something is worthless. That must be why
homepathics were allowed.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-07 21:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
So are you saying that worthless things should not be available for sale?
Yes, if it is worthless it is not worth any money and it is a rip off.
We should protect people from being ripped off.
What if I want to buy something that is worthless?

Or what if what you think is worthless for you isn't worthless for me?

Well?
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Experts in the materials involved. You are right that it is hard to
prove beyond doubt that something is worthless. That must be why
homepathics were allowed.
Lol. Experts. Give me a break. I don't need some 'expert' to tell me
if something has value to me or not.

Maybe you do.
Topaz
2013-08-08 02:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
What if I want to buy something that is worthless?
People should be protected from being ripped off. The greater good is
to outlaw worthless rip offs. Your being deprived of being ripped off
when you want to be is minor.
Post by Peter Franks
Or what if what you think is worthless for you isn't worthless for me?
Well?
That is a good point, but not the same point. We should stop people
from being ripped off. But proving beyond doubt that something is a
rip off might be hard to do.
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Experts in the materials involved. You are right that it is hard to
prove beyond doubt that something is worthless. That must be why
homepathics were allowed.
Lol. Experts. Give me a break. I don't need some 'expert' to tell me
if something has value to me or not.
Maybe you do.
Let's say someone is selling a liquid that supposedly makes your hair
grow faster. It should not be up to each citizen to find out if it's
true. Experts can run tests and find out if it's true. We should have
experts finding out the true facts whether you like it or not. It's
for the greater good to keep people from being ripped off.



http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 04:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
What if I want to buy something that is worthless?
People should be protected from being ripped off. The greater good is
to outlaw worthless rip offs. Your being deprived of being ripped off
when you want to be is minor.
In other words, the few in control decide what is best for everyone. Or
at least best for themselves...
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Or what if what you think is worthless for you isn't worthless for me?
Well?
That is a good point, but not the same point. We should stop people
from being ripped off. But proving beyond doubt that something is a
rip off might be hard to do.
It is the same point. Snake Oil has value, yet you decide that it doesn't.
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Experts in the materials involved. You are right that it is hard to
prove beyond doubt that something is worthless. That must be why
homepathics were allowed.
Lol. Experts. Give me a break. I don't need some 'expert' to tell me
if something has value to me or not.
Maybe you do.
Let's say someone is selling a liquid that supposedly makes your hair
grow faster. It should not be up to each citizen to find out if it's
true. Experts can run tests and find out if it's true. We should have
experts finding out the true facts whether you like it or not. It's
for the greater good to keep people from being ripped off.
And what if these experts are wrong? What's the recourse?
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 13:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
What if I want to buy something that is worthless?
People should be protected from being ripped off. The greater good is
to outlaw worthless rip offs. Your being deprived of being ripped off
when you want to be is minor.
In other words, the few in control decide what is best for everyone. Or
at least best for themselves...
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Or what if what you think is worthless for you isn't worthless for me?
Well?
That is a good point, but not the same point. We should stop people
from being ripped off. But proving beyond doubt that something is a
rip off might be hard to do.
It is the same point. Snake Oil has value, yet you decide that it doesn't.
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Peter Franks
Who decides what is and isn't worthless for someone? You?
Experts in the materials involved. You are right that it is hard to
prove beyond doubt that something is worthless. That must be why
homepathics were allowed.
Lol. Experts. Give me a break. I don't need some 'expert' to tell me
if something has value to me or not.
Maybe you do.
Let's say someone is selling a liquid that supposedly makes your hair
grow faster. It should not be up to each citizen to find out if it's
true. Experts can run tests and find out if it's true. We should have
experts finding out the true facts whether you like it or not. It's
for the greater good to keep people from being ripped off.
And what if these experts are wrong? What's the recourse?
OR what if I buy it to take the bugs off my bumper rather than making my
hair grow..... Maybe it works well for what I intend it to be used for.


We would have no cola drinks if government banned everything they wanted
to ban and we'd still have cocaine available on every street corner.

Prohibition proved that government regulating what you buy, doesn't work
and yet here we are back full circle with Liberal-Progressives trying to
limit what we can buy.
--
*Rumination*
#42 - What people won't say, is as telling as what they do say.
Topaz
2013-08-08 22:14:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:15:00 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
OR what if I buy it to take the bugs off my bumper rather than making my
hair grow..... Maybe it works well for what I intend it to be used for.
We should not allow con men to rip people off. If you find an
exception, like your example above, there should be some office you
can write to to tell your case.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
We would have no cola drinks if government banned everything they wanted
to ban and we'd still have cocaine available on every street corner.
Probably no one denies that cocaine has harmed many people. And those
who don't care about people should not have any kind of political
power. But there you see it. Libertarians are for legalizing cocaine.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Prohibition proved that government regulating what you buy, doesn't work
and yet here we are back full circle with Liberal-Progressives trying to
limit what we can buy.
Outlawing alcohal is too much of a party pooper thing to do.

I rather doubt that I agree with Liberal-Progressives on very much,
but if they are for outawing cocaine I agree with that.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 23:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:15:00 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
OR what if I buy it to take the bugs off my bumper rather than making my
hair grow..... Maybe it works well for what I intend it to be used for.
We should not allow con men to rip people off. If you find an
exception, like your example above, there should be some office you
can write to to tell your case.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
We would have no cola drinks if government banned everything they wanted
to ban and we'd still have cocaine available on every street corner.
Probably no one denies that cocaine has harmed many people. And those
who don't care about people should not have any kind of political
power. But there you see it. Libertarians are for legalizing cocaine.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Prohibition proved that government regulating what you buy, doesn't work
and yet here we are back full circle with Liberal-Progressives trying to
limit what we can buy.
Outlawing alcohal is too much of a party pooper thing to do.
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.

I like the way you work.
Clave
2013-08-08 23:58:39 UTC
Permalink
"Peter Franks" <***@none.com> wrote in message news:ku1ao2$ohc$***@dont-email.me...

<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good. Why can't I make it in my
kitchen and sell it to willing buyers on the street?

Jim
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-09 00:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good. Why can't I make it in my
kitchen and sell it to willing buyers on the street?
Jim
if they are that stupid, how do we stop them?


So far the war on drugs is as big a failure as Prohibition was.
--
*Rumination*
#72 - What if your next abortion is the one fetus that would evolve into
a new human adult life that is immune to cancer? When is evolution NOT
really evolution.
Clave
2013-08-09 01:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good. Why can't I make it in my
kitchen and sell it to willing buyers on the street?
Jim
if they are that stupid, how do we stop them?
I knew I'd get nonsense from you, which is why I asked Peter.

Jim
Topaz
2013-08-09 02:05:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 20:22:51 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good. Why can't I make it in my
kitchen and sell it to willing buyers on the street?
Jim
if they are that stupid, how do we stop them?
So far the war on drugs is as big a failure as Prohibition was.
Libertarians are for legalizing meth. Would they allow people to sell
it to children in playgrounds? That seems to be their philosophy,
though they might make an exception for children maybe. Did you know
that some libertarians call themselves the "right wing". So now
legalizing prostitution and public sodomy in the "gay" parades is the
right wing.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-09 15:12:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 20:22:51 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good. Why can't I make it in my
kitchen and sell it to willing buyers on the street?
Jim
if they are that stupid, how do we stop them?
So far the war on drugs is as big a failure as Prohibition was.
Libertarians are for legalizing meth. Would they allow people to sell
it to children in playgrounds? That seems to be their philosophy,
though they might make an exception for children maybe.
Do you give your children enough money to support their meth habit?
Post by Topaz
Did you know
that some libertarians call themselves the "right wing". So now
legalizing prostitution and public sodomy in the "gay" parades is the
right wing.
What it is, is constitutional for States to allow what they want to
allow..... It's called the 10th amendment. The Federal Government is
limited by the constitution. If there were no constitution there would
be NO Federal Government, just States. so the Constitution only allows
powers that the Constitution has delegated to the Federal Government and
no more.

Is there a Federal Power that allows the Feds to make a law prohibiting
you from cooking Meth in your kitchen? If so under what delegated power
is that a law??
--
*Rumination*
#75 - Every American will be relying on government teats to give them
everything they need and nothing they want.
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-09 01:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good.
and yet it could save your life and you still can't buy it.


Need A LIVER you can't buy that either.
--
*Rumination*
#17 - Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know where the nuts
are? -Gump that-
Clave
2013-08-09 01:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Clave
<...>
Post by Peter Franks
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I've decided that methamphetamine is good.
and yet it could save your life and you still can't buy it.
Good lord, Scottyl00n -- isn't there ANY subject you aren't willing to
embarrass yourself over?

Jim
Topaz
2013-08-09 01:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:15:00 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
OR what if I buy it to take the bugs off my bumper rather than making my
hair grow..... Maybe it works well for what I intend it to be used for.
We should not allow con men to rip people off. If you find an
exception, like your example above, there should be some office you
can write to to tell your case.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
We would have no cola drinks if government banned everything they wanted
to ban and we'd still have cocaine available on every street corner.
Probably no one denies that cocaine has harmed many people. And those
who don't care about people should not have any kind of political
power. But there you see it. Libertarians are for legalizing cocaine.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Prohibition proved that government regulating what you buy, doesn't work
and yet here we are back full circle with Liberal-Progressives trying to
limit what we can buy.
Outlawing alcohal is too much of a party pooper thing to do.
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
I like the way you work.
I just wrote that outlawing alcohal would be too party pooping. But if
a country outlawed it that wouldn't be that bad. It would be better
than a country that legalized heroin and LSD. Under libertarianism
heroin could be sold in any store that wanted to sell it. Libertarians
would allow TV commercials showing propaganda that promoted heroin.
Clearly libertarianism would be hell on earth.

http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Sleepalot
2013-08-09 10:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:15:00 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
OR what if I buy it to take the bugs off my bumper rather than making my
hair grow..... Maybe it works well for what I intend it to be used for.
We should not allow con men to rip people off. If you find an
exception, like your example above, there should be some office you
can write to to tell your case.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
We would have no cola drinks if government banned everything they wanted
to ban and we'd still have cocaine available on every street corner.
Probably no one denies that cocaine has harmed many people. And those
who don't care about people should not have any kind of political
power. But there you see it. Libertarians are for legalizing cocaine.
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Prohibition proved that government regulating what you buy, doesn't work
and yet here we are back full circle with Liberal-Progressives trying to
limit what we can buy.
Outlawing alcohal is too much of a party pooper thing to do.
I've decided that alcohal [sic] is bad. So now you are OK w/ outlawing it.
Alcohol is better than cholera: ban cholera first and see how that goes.
Post by Peter Franks
I like the way you work.
Topaz
2013-08-08 22:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
In other words, the few in control decide what is best for everyone. Or
at least best for themselves...
They would not be good leaders if they were out for themselves. And if
they allow con men to rip people off they are not good leaders.
Post by Peter Franks
It is the same point. Snake Oil has value, yet you decide that it doesn't.
Oh really. I thought it was a classic example of something that does
not have value. Surely it should be a agreed that it is worthless and
what laws should we have about it now. But if you don't agree to use
it as a test case of an admitted rip off, it might have some value as
a joke or a novelty. In that case we could issue permits for buying
it, so we know that no one is being ripped off. But I should put that
in the past tense since everyone knows it's a rip off today.
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Let's say someone is selling a liquid that supposedly makes your hair
grow faster. It should not be up to each citizen to find out if it's
true. Experts can run tests and find out if it's true. We should have
experts finding out the true facts whether you like it or not. It's
for the greater good to keep people from being ripped off.
And what if these experts are wrong? What's the recourse?
It's for the greater good that experts decide upon questionable
products. If they make a mistake that is most unfortunate but it's the
best we can do. We have a law against murder. It's possible that
someone could wrongly be found guilty, which is extremely unfortunate.
But what are we supposed to do, not have a law against murder. We must
do what is best for the greater good.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
nickname unavailable
2013-08-08 02:35:25 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, August 7, 2013 4:33:48 PM UTC-5, Peter Franks wrote:



yet when all of "THE CONSERVATIVE" blubberings have stopped, americas constitution clearly is for regulation of the economy, and the proof that it works is in the pudding.
the clear problem here is that "CONSERVATIVES" are outraged that they do not have the "LIBERTY" to poison people for immense short term profits. "CONSERVATIVES" are clearly outraged that we can trace them, then jail them:)))

show me a criminal that is for regulation.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/06/03/Denmark-Australia-Safest-food-systems/UPI-54491275577900/


U.S. News

Denmark, Australia: Safest food systems



Published: June 3, 2010 at 11:11 AM


REGINA, Saskatchewan, June 3 (UPI) -- Denmark, Australia and Britain have the world's safest food systems, while the United States and Canada rank fourth, an international ranking indicates.
Italy, France and Ireland are at the bottom of the international food-safety rankings of 17 countries by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, an international economic organization of 31 countries based in Paris.
Canada nudged up from the No. 5 spot in 2008, earning a "superior" grade in all areas of food safety except "traceability," in which it ranked "poor" alongside the United States, the OECD's Food Safety Performance World Ranking said.
Traceability refers to the recording of processed foods through all steps in the food's production.
This is important if food becomes contaminated and is recalled, officials say. Traceability lets authorities know which foods are safe and which are not, and help determine where the contamination happened, potentially saving millions of dollars in the recall process.
"Canada and the U.S. do not have well-established farm-to-fork traceability systems for any food product," the report states, noting Canada is the only country to earn a lower grade in this area in 2010 than in 2008.
Sylvain Charlebois, the associate director of the University of Regina's public policy graduate school, said Canada's positive bump is partly due to other countries falling behind.
"Basically, Canada has moved up one because some have actually moved down," Charlebois, who conducted the comparative study for the OECD, told the Canwest News Service.
Topaz
2013-08-07 20:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert
Post by Topaz
"Must I remind you that the FDA is the outgrowth of the "Pure Food and
Drug Act," which was the result of companies selling all kinds of
tainted food and drugs!
The only reason that worthless homeopathic "drugs" are allowed to be
sold in the US is that the "Pure Food and Drug Act of 1938", which
created the FDA, explicitly allowed them.
The author of the legislation, Senator Royal Copeland of New York, was a
homeopathic "doctor."
Probably homeopathic drugs are worthless. But they are also harmless.
Who can prove for a fact that they are worthless. Anything is
possible. Probably that is why they were allowed.

Anyway the point is not whether the FDA always makes the right
decision. The point is that we should have laws to protect us from bad
food.
Post by Bert
But then, you're a neo-Nazi.
http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-07 15:54:15 UTC
Permalink
According to the former head of Lockheed's "Skunkworks" jet design division, government regulation is responsible for 40% of the cost of any product, which means that if the apply it to "global warming solutions" it could effectively kill them. I'm all for it.
all the regulations in ObamaCare are killing ObamaCare.... it's
almost funny to see Liberal government commit suicide by regulation,
it's the ultimate expression of self destructive behavior.



And those are the idiots that want to tell us all how to live longer.
--
*Rumination*
#47 - ObamaCare is like a box of Cracker Jacks, you had to buy it to
find out what the surprise inside was? It was Slavery "surprise".
Dale
2013-08-08 04:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less

for example, we profess to have separation of church and state

yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves

I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
--
Dale
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 15:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
Can you point out where the 'anti-trust' authority is delegated?
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 15:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
Who owns their graves the Government or the people in them?
nickname unavailable
2013-08-08 15:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Dale
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
Can you point out where the 'anti-trust' authority is delegated?
you keep asking the same stupid questions over and over again.



The Constitution of the United States
Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic tranquility:)))


one would think you are incapable of learning.
BeamMeUpScotty
2013-08-08 17:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by nickname unavailable
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Dale
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
Can you point out where the 'anti-trust' authority is delegated?
you keep asking the same stupid questions over and over again.
The Constitution of the United States
Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.
so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic tranquility:)))
one would think you are incapable of learning.
["....The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people....."]

Tell us where in all that you listed those powers you suggest are delegated?


Because in what I just listed it says anything *NOT* delegated to the
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.... *NOT* delegated *by the* constitution are
reserved for the States or the People.

If the Supreme Court delegated it it's NOT constitutional... that only
means that the courts say it is there in their *OPINION* which means
that it still needs to be placed into the constitution for it to
actually become law.
--
*Rumination*
#11 - A little Liberalism like a little alcohol, can be a good thing but
when either of them takes control, they become self destructive.
nickname unavailable
2013-08-08 18:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by nickname unavailable
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Dale
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
*Liberty is NOT accomplished by more government regulations*
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
Can you point out where the 'anti-trust' authority is delegated?
you keep asking the same stupid questions over and over again.
The Constitution of the United States
Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.
so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic tranquility:)))
one would think you are incapable of learning.
["....The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people....."]
Tell us where in all that you listed those powers you suggest are delegated?
Because in what I just listed it says anything *NOT* delegated to the
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.... *NOT* delegated *by the* constitution are
reserved for the States or the People.
If the Supreme Court delegated it it's NOT constitutional... that only
means that the courts say it is there in their *OPINION* which means
that it still needs to be placed into the constitution for it to
actually become law.
you keep asking the same stupid questions over and over again. proof positive you are stupid.

The Constitution of the United States
Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

so any law, treaty or regulation that is deemed constitutional, shall be the law of the land. its really quite simple. the constitution was crafted by liberals, who gave the constitution broad powers to legislate, tax, regulate, negate state law, mandate, tariff, to promote and provide for the general welfare, to ensure domestic tranquility:)))
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
--
*Rumination*
#11 - A little Liberalism like a little alcohol, can be a good thing but
when either of them takes control, they become self destructive.
Topaz
2013-08-08 22:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
We need to regulate more than that. For one thing we need to stop race
mixing so as to preserve the White race.

Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? Race-mixing is what happened. They let a lot
of Black people in and of course the result was racial inter-marriage.
Now the Portuguese people are not as White as they were. We need to
preserve the White race. Here are some quotes from Mein Kampf:

"All that we admire in the world to-day, its science, its art, its
technical developments and discoveries, are the products of the
creative activities of a few peoples, and it may be true that their
first beginnings must be attributed to one race. The maintenance of
civilization is wholly dependant on such peoples. Should they perish,
all that makes this earth beautiful will descend with them into the
grave."

"All the great civilizations of the past became decadent because the
originally creative race died out, as a result of the contamination on
the blood."

"Every manifestation of human culture, every product of art, science
and technical skill, which we see before our eyes to-day, is almost
exclusively the product of the Aryan creative power. This very fact
fully justifies the conclusion that it was the Aryan alone who founded
a superior type of humanity"

"The foundations of actual life in Japan to-day are not those of the
native Japanese culture, although this characterizes the external
features of the country, which features strike the eye of European
observers on account of their fundamental difference from us; but the
real foundations of contemporary Japanese life are the enormous
scientific and technical achievements of Europe and America, that is
to say, of Aryan peoples."
"A people that fails to preserve the purity of its racial blood
thereby destroys the unity of the soul of the nation in all its
manifestations. A disintegrated national character is the inevitable
consequence of the process of disintegration in the blood. And the
change which takes place in the spiritual and creative faculties of a
people is only an effect of the change that had modified its racial
substance."

"For in a world which would be composed of mongrels and Negroid all
ideals of human beauty and nobility and all hopes of an idealized
future for our humanity would be lost forever."

"It is especially the cultural creativeness which disappears when a
superior race inter-mixes with an inferior one."

"There may be hundreds of excellent States in this earth, and yet if
the Aryan, who is the creator and custodian of civilization, should
disappear, all culture that is on an adequate level with the spiritual
needs of the superior nations to-day would also disappear."

"We National Socialists know that in holding these views we take up a
revolutionary stand in the world to-day and that we are branded as
revolutionaries. But our views and our conduct will not be determined
by the approbation or disapprobation of our contemporaries, but only
by our duty to follow a truth which we have acknowledged. In doing
this we have reason to believe that posterity will have a clearer
insight"

"Thus for the first time a high inner purpose is accredited to the
State. In face of the ridiculous phrase that the State should do no
more than act as the guardian of public order and tranquility, so that
everybody can peacefully dupe everybody else, it is given a very high
mission indeed to preserve and encourage the highest type of humanity
which a beneficent Creator has bestowed on this earth."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
Peter Franks
2013-08-08 23:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
Post by Dale
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
We need to regulate more than that. For one thing we need to stop race
mixing so as to preserve the White race.
Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? ...
Socialism is what happened. Destroyed that country in just a few short
years.

Socialism: the gift that keeps on taking.

Socialism: ruining one country at a time since the 1900's.

<race-mixing crap deleted>
nickname unavailable
2013-08-09 00:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Post by Topaz
Post by Dale
you just need the amount of regulations to prevent anti-trust against
the constitution, no more, no less
for example, we profess to have separation of church and state
yet, Arlington National Cemetery has crosses on all graves
I'm not perfect, but a lot of cleaning of of law and anti-trust would
help immensely in domestic AND foreign affairs
We need to regulate more than that. For one thing we need to stop race
mixing so as to preserve the White race.
Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? ...
Socialism is what happened. Destroyed that country in just a few short
years.
Socialism: the gift that keeps on taking.
Socialism: ruining one country at a time since the 1900's.
<race-mixing crap deleted>
actually its the "LIBERTY" that was given to corporations to do as they please, and they have.

snicker:)))

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/how-globalization-liquidated-the-reagan-democrats/


How Globalization Liquidated the Reagan Democrats
By Patrick J. Buchanan • July 2, 2013, 1:55 AM

On Nov. 3, 1969, Richard Nixon, his presidency about to be broken by massive antiwar demonstrations, called on “the great silent majority” to stand by him for peace with honor in Vietnam.
They did. Within days Nixon’s approval surged to 68 percent. The ferocious Republican partisan of the 1950s had won over millions of Democrats.
Why? Because sons and brothers of those Democrats were doing much of the fighting in Vietnam. If Nixon was standing by them, they would stand by him.
In 1972 Nixon would win 49 states. Ronald Reagan, backed by his “Reagan Democrats,” would win 44- and 49-state landslides.
Yet since Reagan went home, Democrats have won the popular vote in five of six presidential elections. The New Majority is history. The Reagan Democrats have departed. What happened?
Answer: For a generation, when forced to choose between Middle America and corporate America, on NAFTA, most-favored nation for China, and free trade, the GOP establishment opted to go with the Fortune 500. In the GOP the corporate conservative rides up front; the social, cultural and patriotic conservatives in the back of the bus.
Consider who has benefited most from Republican-backed globalization.
Was it not corporate executives and transnational companies liberated from the land of their birth and the call of patriotism?
Under the rules of globalization, U.S. corporations could, without penalty or opprobrium, shut their factories, lay off their U.S. workers, erect new plants in Asia, produce their goods there, and bring them back free of any tariff to sell to consumers and kill the U.S. companies that elected to stay loyal to the U.S.A.
They then used the profits from abandoning America to raise executive salaries to seven and eight figures.
And how did the Reagan Democrats make out?
Real wages of U.S. workers have not risen for 40 years. One in three U.S. manufacturing jobs vanished between 2000 and 2010. The nation that used to produce 96 percent of all it consumed depends now on foreigners for the clothes and shoes we wear, the TV sets we watch, the radios we listen to, the computers we use, the cars we drive.
A nation that used to export twice what it imported has been running huge trade deficits for decades. China now holds $1 trillion in U.S. debt and can buy Smithfield hams out of the petty cash drawer.
With 50,000 U.S. factories closing in this new century, the greatest manufacturing power in history has been hollowed out, as Beijing booms at our expense. Corporate America is building the new China that is pushing Uncle Sam out of the western Pacific.
“Where did the ‘America’ in corporate America go?” asks Robert Patterson in National Review.
The Bush aide hearkens back to “Engine Charlie” Wilson, Ike’s first secretary of defense, who said, “For years I have thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors and vice versa.” Wilson’s words were twisted by a capitalist-baiting press, but he saw GM as first and foremost an American company.
Before Wilson there was William Knudson, the dollar-a-year man of FDR’s war effort who converted GM and Detroit into the great arsenal of democracy, a story movingly told by Arthur Herman in “Freedom’s Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II.”
“In the good old days,” writes Patterson, “Americans could at least count on business leaders being pro-American. Beloved or not, major corporations functioned as true stakeholders of America: fortifying American industry and building American factories, spreading American innovation, paying billions of dollars in American taxes and creating millions of high paying ‘family-wage’ jobs that helped create and sustain an expanding middle class.”
And today?
“No longer committed to a particular place, people, country or culture, our largest public companies have turned globalist, while abdicating the responsibility they once assumed to America and its workers.”
Citing Joel Kotkin’s work, Patterson adds, “the worst offenders are Apple, Facebook, Google, the high-tech firms secluded in Silicon Valley, a dreamland where the information age glitterati make Gilded Age plutocrats look bourgeois.”
Google has five times GM’s market capitalization but employs only one-fourth the number of GM’s American workers. Steve Jobs’ Apple has “700,000 industrial serfs” working overseas.
Since we bailed it out, GM has become “General Tso’s Motors,” creating 6,000 new jobs in China while shedding 78,000 U.S. jobs here.
Marco Rubio today leads Senate Republicans in doing the bidding of corporate America, which, in payback for its campaign contributions, wants amnesty for 12 million illegal aliens.
Agribusinesses need more peons. Restaurant chains want more waitresses, dishwashers, busboys. Construction companies want more ditch-diggers. Silicon Valley demands hundreds of thousands more H-1Bs—foreign graduate students who can be hired for half what an American engineer might need to support his family.
“Merchants have no country,” said Thomas Jefferson. “The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.”
Amen to that.
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive to 2025?” Copyright 2013 Creators.com.
Topaz
2013-08-09 02:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Franks
Socialism is what happened. Destroyed that country in just a few short
years.
Socialism: the gift that keeps on taking.
Socialism: ruining one country at a time since the 1900's.
That is false. Sweden has more socialism than the USA and people are
better off there. Clearly the difference between rich and poor nations
is race. Look at northern Europe compared to Africa and Haiti.

World's Happiest Places
Forbes
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-27761674

Where in the world do people feel most content with their lives?
According to a new report released by the Organization for Economic
Co-Operation and Development, a Paris-based group of 30 countries with
democratic governments that provides economic and social statistics
and data, happiness levels are highest in northern European countries.
Denmark, Finland and the Netherlands rated at the top of the list,
ranking first, second and third, respectively. Outside Europe, New
Zealand and Canada landed at Nos. 8 and 6, respectively. The United
States did not crack the top ten. Switzerland placed seventh and
Belgium placed tenth.

http://www.ihr.org/ http://nationalvanguard.org/ http://heretical.com/

http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com
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