Why is it that we need to be Born Again, (Born of God(?

"Pete" <***@nya.biz> wrote in message news:lfm90d$5mn$***@speranza.aioe.org...
[slap]

We might need to be born again if the first borning was a total fuck up.

duke

2014-03-11 17:57:11 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Yet you are a sinner, and so by that definition, you are not born of God. For
in Hebrew 4:15, only Jesus never sinned.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****

Pete

2014-03-11 18:03:46 UTC

Post by duke

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Yet you are a sinner, and so by that definition, you are not born of God. For
in Hebrew 4:15, only Jesus never sinned.

I was a sinner, you are a sinner my your own admission.
Go back and read it again. The Bible, the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

duke

2014-03-11 18:48:15 UTC

Post by duke

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Yet you are a sinner, and so by that definition, you are not born of God. For
in Hebrew 4:15, only Jesus never sinned.

I was a sinner,

YOU still are a sinner 24/7.

Post by Pete
you are a sinner my your own admission.

Yep. In what I say and what I think, is what I do and what I fail to do.

Post by Pete
Go back and read it again. The Bible, the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

But not pete's religion.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****

Pete

2014-03-11 19:16:03 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Yet you are a sinner, and so by that definition, you are not born of God. For
in Hebrew 4:15, only Jesus never sinned.

I was a sinner,

YOU still are a sinner 24/7.

Post by Pete
you are a sinner my your own admission.

Yep. In what I say and what I think, is what I do and what I fail to do.

Post by Pete
Go back and read it again. The Bible, the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

But not pete's religion.

I have one true religion, helping the poor and needy as spoken in the NT as
true religion.

Everything you said disagreed with the scripture posted. Yet you feel
correct. Something is wrong with that picture.

duke

2014-03-12 18:01:55 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

Yet you are a sinner, and so by that definition, you are not born of God. For
in Hebrew 4:15, only Jesus never sinned.

I was a sinner,

YOU still are a sinner 24/7.

Post by Pete
you are a sinner my your own admission.

Yep. In what I say and what I think, is what I do and what I fail to do.

Post by Pete
Go back and read it again. The Bible, the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

But not pete's religion.

I have one true religion, helping the poor and needy as spoken in the NT as
true religion.

A fine attribute, but if that's all, you are in defiance of the teachings of
Jesus.

Post by Pete
Everything you said disagreed with the scripture posted. Yet you feel
correct. Something is wrong with that picture.

Yeah, you fail NT Scritpure for Christians.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-16 04:05:22 UTC

<snip>

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
I can see you now "***@cme.now".

Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.

<snip>

Pete

2014-03-16 15:46:26 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
<snip>

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.
<snip>

Really? Is this what they always quote or refer too?

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To
visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself
unspotted from the world.

This has always been my long standing statement to the question.

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-22 04:24:02 UTC

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.

Really? Is this what they always quote or refer too?
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and
the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in
their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the
world.
This has always been my long standing statement to
the question.

You would be surprised at the number of such that I
have seen make such reference, and claim, that theirs
is the "one true religion".

In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

Pete

2014-03-22 06:55:22 UTC

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.

Really? Is this what they always quote or refer too?
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and
the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in
their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the
world.
This has always been my long standing statement to
the question.

You would be surprised at the number of such that I
have seen make such reference, and claim, that theirs
is the "one true religion".
In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

The one I mentioned is the only one specified in the Bible outside of
Judaism that is God ordained.

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-22 07:19:06 UTC

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.

Really? Is this what they always quote or refer too?
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and
the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in
their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the
world.
This has always been my long standing statement to
the question.

You would be surprised at the number of such that I
have seen make such reference, and claim, that theirs
is the "one true religion".
In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

The one I mentioned is the only one specified in the Bible
outside of Judaism that is God ordained.

So, you admit that Judaism is "God ordained".

However, that which you speak of, is claimed by many others,
all claiming that theirs is indeed the "one true religion". Many
cults and cult leaders making the same claim, using the same
verse and reasoning that you are using.

Pete

2014-03-24 00:07:39 UTC

Post by Pete
I have one true religion

LMAO!!! Now that is funny. And yes,
Spoken like every other cult and cult leader
that I have ever come across.

Really? Is this what they always quote or refer too?
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and
the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in
their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the
world.
This has always been my long standing statement to
the question.

You would be surprised at the number of such that I
have seen make such reference, and claim, that theirs
is the "one true religion".
In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

The one I mentioned is the only one specified in the Bible
outside of Judaism that is God ordained.

So, you admit that Judaism is "God ordained".
However, that which you speak of, is claimed by many others,
all claiming that theirs is indeed the "one true religion". Many
cults and cult leaders making the same claim, using the same
verse and reasoning that you are using.

I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse about
true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff, plus heresies.

None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-30 06:01:26 UTC

Post by Pete
Jas 1:27

<snip, left for context>

Post by Up from the Abyss
In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

The one I mentioned is the only one specified in the Bible
outside of Judaism that is God ordained.

So, you admit that Judaism is "God ordained".
However, that which you speak of, is claimed by many others,
all claiming that theirs is indeed the "one true religion". Many
cults and cult leaders making the same claim, using the same
verse and reasoning that you are using.

I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse
about true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff,
plus heresies.

Yet, you yourself do likewise.

You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy from my
perspective.

Post by Pete
None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Nor, do you follow only that verse. And, yes, many also
claim that verse and that they have the one true religion.

You are only revealing your naiveté.

Pete

2014-03-31 06:12:31 UTC

Post by Pete
Jas 1:27

<snip, left for context>

Post by Up from the Abyss
In fact, I have seen so many such claims, that the number
of those who are the "one true religion", is beyond my
ability to recall anymore.

The one I mentioned is the only one specified in the Bible
outside of Judaism that is God ordained.

So, you admit that Judaism is "God ordained".
However, that which you speak of, is claimed by many others,
all claiming that theirs is indeed the "one true religion". Many
cults and cult leaders making the same claim, using the same
verse and reasoning that you are using.

I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse
about true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff,
plus heresies.

Yet, you yourself do likewise.
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy from my
perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion". True religion stands on its own. It is
God ordained, and it operates solely from Love, at least to those that
truly love God. It cannot be tied into any organizations in such a way as
to declare themselves righteous in any fashion.

You might declare something I say as a heresy to your understandings but
not from a biblical standpoint. The RCC would also declare me as such since
I oppose their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Post by Pete
None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Nor, do you follow only that verse. And, yes, many also
claim that verse and that they have the one true religion.
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would glom onto "true
religion" in order to appear as an angel of light. The mormon's would
appear to be the best at following it on the surface. Yet I'd bet there are
more hypocrites to their doctrines in their temples than most any other
religion/cult.

The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God the Father
through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal relationship. Each
individual as if they were the only one that existed is how deeply He cares
for us.

Yet I would far rather seem to be naive and follow Him for when I am weak,
then am I strong.

Up from the Abyss

2014-04-03 00:44:19 UTC

Post by Pete
I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse
about true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff,
plus heresies.

Yet, you yourself do likewise.
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy from my
perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Post by Pete
True religion stands on its own. It is God ordained, and it operates
solely from Love, at least to those that truly love God. It cannot be
tied into any organizations in such a way as to declare themselves
righteous in any fashion.

Jam 1:27a Pure religion and undefiled before our God and
Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction

So, if I not only visit, but also assist the fatherless and widows
in their affliction

Yet, I am not "born again", am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You claim above that "true religion" stands on it's own.
Thus, it is not required that one is "born again", nor even
that needs to believe in your "Jesus" character.

Can I be a part of the "true religion", and reject your
"Jesus" character as well as not be "born again"?

And let's not forget:

Jam 1:25 But he that looketh into the perfect law, the law
of liberty, and so continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth
but a *doer that worketh,* this man shall be blessed in his doing.

Jam 1:26 If any man thinketh himself to be religious, while he
bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his heart, this man's religion
is vain.

I would suggest you take verse 26 to heart. For you have a
little work to do in that regard.

BTW: If **who** doesn't bridle his tongue?

Post by Pete
You might declare something I say as a heresy to your
understandings but not from a biblical standpoint.

LMAO!!!

Post by Pete
The RCC would also declare me as such since I oppose
their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Yet, you have not as of yet totally come out of her, and
freed yourself from *all* of her stuff. You still cling to
some, though you realize it not.

Post by Pete
None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Nor, do you follow only that verse. And, yes, many also
claim that verse and that they have the one true religion.
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

Post by Pete
The mormon's would appear to be the best at following it on
the surface. Yet I'd bet there are more hypocrites to their
doctrines in their temples than most any other religion/cult.

I don't see them as any better, nor any worse.

Post by Pete
The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God
the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal
relationship.

So, the "true religion", requires more than simply James 1:27.
You are saying as much here. Thus, like I said, you also
tag things unto it.

So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?

<snip>

Pete

2014-04-03 15:41:42 UTC

Post by Pete
I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse
about true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff,
plus heresies.

Yet, you yourself do likewise.
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy from my
perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for yourself then
that is your reward.

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to be one of the
fellows when helping out.

Post by Up from the Abyss
If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You'd be no different that the typical RCC'er that followed their rites and
rituals, confessing on Sun and sinning Mon thru Sat.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You claim above that "true religion" stands on it's own.
Thus, it is not required that one is "born again", nor even
that needs to believe in your "Jesus" character.
Can I be a part of the "true religion", and reject your
"Jesus" character as well as not be "born again"?

Anyone can be a pretender, there are lots of them in Church on Sunday
Morning. Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of the heart.

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:25 But he that looketh into the perfect law, the law
of liberty, and so continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth
but a *doer that worketh,* this man shall be blessed in his doing.
Jam 1:26 If any man thinketh himself to be religious, while he
bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his heart, this man's religion
is vain.
I would suggest you take verse 26 to heart. For you have a
little work to do in that regard.
BTW: If **who** doesn't bridle his tongue?

Any man. And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain. I
have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

Post by Pete
You might declare something I say as a heresy to your
understandings but not from a biblical standpoint.

LMAO!!!

Post by Pete
The RCC would also declare me as such since I oppose
their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Yet, you have not as of yet totally come out of her, and
freed yourself from *all* of her stuff. You still cling to
some, though you realize it not.

I was never a part of her. There may be some understandings I have that are
part of her misunderstandings that were never addressed in the reformation
and since. The gifts of the spirit is one area that they squashed and in
thinking about that it probably was so they could keep their authority with
the pope on down and sit on all the "little people".

Post by Pete
None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Nor, do you follow only that verse. And, yes, many also
claim that verse and that they have the one true religion.
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

LOL. Are you that desperate?

Post by Pete
The mormon's would appear to be the best at following it on
the surface. Yet I'd bet there are more hypocrites to their
doctrines in their temples than most any other religion/cult.

I don't see them as any better, nor any worse.

I have a lot of friends who are hard core, and other who are so-so because
their families always were that. Friday nights you can see a steady stream
of cars leaving Salt Lake heading west to Vegas, or Heading north to the
Indian reservations. Sunday they all poor back in town, and they were not
on missionary trips either. LOL

Post by Pete
The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God
the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal
relationship.

So, the "true religion", requires more than simply James 1:27.
You are saying as much here. Thus, like I said, you also
tag things unto it.
So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?
<snip>

To receive any reward in the next life for it you do. You can still earn a
reward for it in this life as do many rich benefactors. (besides the tax
benefits )

Up from the Abyss

2014-04-06 11:51:00 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy
from my perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

In another response, you claimed that in order to be
"believers", they *had* to be "born again", or they
were not "believers".

Thus, you *add* or *tag* that upon or in addition unto.

Post by Pete
True religion stands on its own. It is God ordained,
and it operates solely from Love, at least to those
that truly love God. It cannot be tied into any
organizations in such a way as to declare themselves
righteous in any fashion.

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for
yourself then that is your reward.

James makes no such stipulation that one *must* also
be "born again".

I know many people who say they "believe", who are
clearly not "born again", but *do* James 1:27.

And I, do not fault them.

You are attributing anyone doing James 1:27 ***without***
being "born again", as doing it *for* themselves.

You are an idiot.

You *clearly* add the stipulation that it is *only* the
"true religion" for those "born again".

However, I am not sure you are able to honest enough,
with even yourself, as to admit as much. Let alone to
be honest enough to admit it to others.

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to
be one of the fellows when helping out.

Like what. Be specific.

Like having a beer? Ewwww, da boogey-man's
in da "spirits" o de alcohol.

So, dropping a quarter in a jukebox or a pinball
machine, that one must be spotted by the world!!!

LMFAO!

Hell! We all know those pinball machines are
really demon possessed! And those "jukeboxes"
making the sound of a human voice. Gee, ain't
no person in that box, it must be witchcraft!!!

You better burn that there thing son!!!

Ludicrious? Perhaps.

Yet, there are many who have thought as much.

Post by Up from the Abyss
If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You'd be no different that the typical RCC'er that followed
their rites and rituals, confessing on Sun and sinning Mon
thru Sat.

So, you are indeed stipulating, adding or tagging on that
it is not the true religion unless you are also "born again".

And no! Unlike you, I would be resting upon shabat.
"As God did from His" [cf Heb 4:10].

Anyone can be a pretender

LMFAO!!!

And *again*, you prove my point. That it is *not* the
"true religion" unless one *also* meets the criteria that
you are adding or tagging on to it.

So, in order to be a part of the "true religion", you have
stipulated two "tags".

Post by Pete
there are lots of them in Church on Sunday Morning.
Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of
the heart.

Yet, there are those who are "pure of heart", who indeed
do as much, who believe in your "Jesus", but are not
"born again" per your definition / understanding.

Any man.

Ah, so it is a "work" that is an *imperative*, lest your
"religion" be vain.

Post by Pete
And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain. I
have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

I have no need of such from you.

However, neither have you any "real food or drink"
to offer me. Thus, you have nothing that I need.

Besides, you might send me mixed fibers, and I wouldn't
wear them!

Post by Pete
You might declare something I say as a heresy to your
understandings but not from a biblical standpoint.

LMAO!!!

Post by Pete
The RCC would also declare me as such since I oppose
their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Yet, you have not as of yet totally come out of her, and
freed yourself from *all* of her stuff. You still cling to
some, though you realize it not.

I was never a part of her.

Yet, you still partake of things that came down from her.
Thus, though you realize it not, you are a partaker with
her.

Post by Pete
There may be some understandings I have that are part
of her misunderstandings that were never addressed in
the reformation and since.

The "reformation", like so many others, made a start,
but never finished. Never attained to the goal, or the
fullness of aletheia.

Post by Pete
The gifts of the spirit is one area that they squashed and in
thinking about that it probably was so they could keep their
authority with the pope on down and sit on all the "little people".

Yet, there was so much more. But you can't see it.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

LOL. Are you that desperate?

Not at all. Yet, you did indeed "glom" onto it. And you
also, tag onto it.

Post by Pete
The mormon's would appear to be the best at following it on
the surface. Yet I'd bet there are more hypocrites to their
doctrines in their temples than most any other religion/cult.

I don't see them as any better, nor any worse.

I have a lot of friends who are hard core, and other who are
so-so because their families always were that. Friday nights
you can see a steady stream of cars leaving Salt Lake heading
west to Vegas, or Heading north to the Indian reservations.
Sunday they all poor back in town, and they were not on
missionary trips either. LOL

Some "sins" are obvious. But those which really should
worry you, are the ones that are not obvious to you. Some
of which, you do not see at all.

Post by Pete
The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God
the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal
relationship.

So, the "true religion", requires more than simply James 1:27.
You are saying as much here. Thus, like I said, you also
tag things unto it.
So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?

To receive any reward in the next life for it you do.

LMFAO!!! There you go again. Proving, that you add
or tag unto it. You are adding an *imperative* stipulation
to it. Anything less, than your perception, and the imperative
stipulation that you also include with it, is not a "true religion".

Post by Pete
You can still earn a reward for it in this life as do many
rich benefactors. (besides the tax benefits )

Oy vey ...

Pete

2014-04-07 05:54:38 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy
from my perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

In another response, you claimed that in order to be
"believers", they *had* to be "born again", or they
were not "believers".
Thus, you *add* or *tag* that upon or in addition unto.

To have faith one must be a believer. To be born again one must have been
given faith by God. In order for rewards to be heavenly one must be born
again and do the works of God.

Anyone can do the works for works sake and they would receive rewards for
them in this life, and if they end up in hell just how could they claim a
heavenly reward if there were any?

No, I added nothing, this is what is taught in the NT, just like "This day
I set before you a blessing and a curse" from the beginnings of the works
of the law. It is a spiritual happening. Has not one thing to do with me, I
cannot add nor subtract from Gods will and His promises unto us.

Post by Pete
True religion stands on its own. It is God ordained,
and it operates solely from Love, at least to those
that truly love God. It cannot be tied into any
organizations in such a way as to declare themselves
righteous in any fashion.

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for
yourself then that is your reward.

James makes no such stipulation that one *must* also
be "born again".
I know many people who say they "believe", who are
clearly not "born again", but *do* James 1:27.
And I, do not fault them.

No one can play both sides of the street, there is a way that seems
righteous to a man, but the end thereof is death. If one is not told and
they fall into death and you held the key to eternal life would you not
share some of the blame? Freely received, freely give. I am also faulting
the belief systems of some. They didn't make it up but they sure were
conned into believing whatever it was.

When the world unites under on religion, I will be one of the ones you
would be throwing rocks at. Fortunately I won't be here.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are attributing anyone doing James 1:27 ***without***
being "born again", as doing it *for* themselves.
You are an idiot.

You are an foolish for thinking that you are doing it for any other reason.
You sure aren't doing it for God, and you aren't doing it out of a loving
nature.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You *clearly* add the stipulation that it is *only* the
"true religion" for those "born again".
However, I am not sure you are able to honest enough,
with even yourself, as to admit as much. Let alone to
be honest enough to admit it to others.

I understand it at a far different level than yourself.

Judaism was a true religion, ordained by God with an expected outcome. How
can you in any way relate the two?

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to
be one of the fellows when helping out.

Like what. Be specific.
Like having a beer? Ewwww, da boogey-man's
in da "spirits" o de alcohol.
So, dropping a quarter in a jukebox or a pinball
machine, that one must be spotted by the world!!!
LMFAO!
Hell! We all know those pinball machines are
really demon possessed! And those "jukeboxes"
making the sound of a human voice. Gee, ain't
no person in that box, it must be witchcraft!!!
You better burn that there thing son!!!
Ludicrious? Perhaps.
Yet, there are many who have thought as much.

That you would even think such a thing shows where your head is at.
Anything can be taken to an excess. Like eating. The only reason I wouldn't
be doing any of those things would be if it offended you. The bible does
not say they are sin.

Post by Up from the Abyss
If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You'd be no different that the typical RCC'er that followed
their rites and rituals, confessing on Sun and sinning Mon
thru Sat.

So, you are indeed stipulating, adding or tagging on that
it is not the true religion unless you are also "born again".
And no! Unlike you, I would be resting upon shabat.
"As God did from His" [cf Heb 4:10].

Fine for you, but what has that to do with me? Every day is unto the Lord.
When one works, employed, do it as unto the Lord. I can rest from my works,
since not one work that I do can add to the righteousness of God imputed to
me. Now I can focus on what He tells me to do. I need to listen best I can,
to him. He will work in me both to want and to do His will.

Anyone can be a pretender

LMFAO!!!
And *again*, you prove my point. That it is *not* the
"true religion" unless one *also* meets the criteria that
you are adding or tagging on to it.
So, in order to be a part of the "true religion", you have
stipulated two "tags".

Again you make mistakes the same one done what, three times so far in this
single message alone?

Post by Pete
there are lots of them in Church on Sunday Morning.
Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of
the heart.

Yet, there are those who are "pure of heart", who indeed
do as much, who believe in your "Jesus", but are not
"born again" per your definition / understanding.

Born Again is an understanding of God and His will. Jesus said "you must be
born again". Look at all the ways people try to make that happen, but they
cannot. It is not of works lest any man boast, and anyone who wants to get
in by doing it there way is seeking to control the situation. Look at you,
right now you are living life your way. Not Gods, and by denying that there
is no God does not release you from your responsibility to yourself and
God. Nothing you can do will earn you points of rewards in Heaven if you
had any idea of covering your bets. All mans works are as filty rags,
period. Let that man not deceive himself and thing he will receive of God
for any works.

Any atheist who follows "true religions" is a true goody, goody.

Any man.

Ah, so it is a "work" that is an *imperative*, lest your
"religion" be vain.

No, we have to over ride the will of God in our lives to be unbridled.
If one walks in the spirit, they walk the in ways of the Lord. Their desire
is to please God, a desire, not a work.

Post by Pete
And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain. I
have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

I have no need of such from you.
However, neither have you any "real food or drink"
to offer me. Thus, you have nothing that I need.
Besides, you might send me mixed fibers, and I wouldn't
wear them!

LOL, I can just imaging you in a polyester suit, shirt, tie and belt with
bright colors dancing under a mirrored ball with shoes that match.
Laughing, one hot dude in his day eh?

Post by Pete
You might declare something I say as a heresy to your
understandings but not from a biblical standpoint.

LMAO!!!

Post by Pete
The RCC would also declare me as such since I oppose
their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Yet, you have not as of yet totally come out of her, and
freed yourself from *all* of her stuff. You still cling to
some, though you realize it not.

I was never a part of her.

Yet, you still partake of things that came down from her.
Thus, though you realize it not, you are a partaker with
her.

No, because my heart and soul are with God, and pleasing him. I am being
perfected by the renewing of my mind. My spirit is correct, the rest of me
has to catch up, and get rid of bad habits or whatever. I am being
delivered by learning the truths of God and understanding them, deeper and
deeper, week by week. Same as any other Born Again believer.

Post by Pete
There may be some understandings I have that are part
of her misunderstandings that were never addressed in
the reformation and since.

The "reformation", like so many others, made a start,
but never finished. Never attained to the goal, or the
fullness of aletheia.

I have mentioned that many, many times. Many would argue the point. But it
is true.

Yet, there was so much more. But you can't see it.

I see more as I grow, what is to fault with that? Some grow in certain
areas faster than others. God deals with us as individuals, we are not
clones of each other even if there are broad similarities. One a foot, one
a hand, should one fault the other? No, if they are of the same body then
they should work together.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

LOL. Are you that desperate?

Not at all. Yet, you did indeed "glom" onto it. And you
also, tag onto it.

Only from your viewpoint. There are a whole lot of areas with wide gaps in
your understandings.

Post by Pete
The mormon's would appear to be the best at following it on
the surface. Yet I'd bet there are more hypocrites to their
doctrines in their temples than most any other religion/cult.

I don't see them as any better, nor any worse.

I have a lot of friends who are hard core, and other who are
so-so because their families always were that. Friday nights
you can see a steady stream of cars leaving Salt Lake heading
west to Vegas, or Heading north to the Indian reservations.
Sunday they all poor back in town, and they were not on
missionary trips either. LOL

Some "sins" are obvious. But those which really should
worry you, are the ones that are not obvious to you. Some
of which, you do not see at all.

Even if, my sins are covered under the blood. I could have errors of
omission, covered under the Blood of Jesus. Jesus is my High Priest in
heaven, my advocate. There is none like Him and I thank Him frequently.

Post by Pete
The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God
the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal
relationship.

So, the "true religion", requires more than simply James 1:27.
You are saying as much here. Thus, like I said, you also
tag things unto it.
So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?

To receive any reward in the next life for it you do.

It is the way of promise, the way of the Lord. Not my way. The works I do
that are on my own will be burnt up so that only the gold remains, some
enter by the skin of their teeth, and no treasures stored. As I am late to
the party so to speak I don't know if anything is stored up, but I have
placed myself in Gods hands that He will guide me to do His bidding, and
sluff off the old me.

Post by Pete
You can still earn a reward for it in this life as do many
rich benefactors. (besides the tax benefits )

Oy vey ...

But it is true, it often helps the rich stay rich.

Linda Lee

2014-04-08 17:33:33 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy
from my perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

In another response, you claimed that in order to be
"believers", they *had* to be "born again", or they
were not "believers".
Thus, you *add* or *tag* that upon or in addition unto.

To have faith one must be a believer. To be born again one must have been
given faith by God. In order for rewards to be heavenly one must be born
again and do the works of God.

You're out then.

Post by Pete
Anyone can do the works for works sake

What does that mean?

Post by Pete
and they would receive rewards for
them in this life, and if they end up in hell just how could they claim a
heavenly reward if there were any?
No, I added nothing, this is what is taught in the NT, just like "This day
I set before you a blessing and a curse" from the beginnings of the works
of the law. It is a spiritual happening. Has not one thing to do with me, I
cannot add nor subtract from Gods will and His promises unto us.

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Post by Pete
True religion stands on its own. It is God ordained,
and it operates solely from Love, at least to those
that truly love God.

And if they don't truly love God, the hell with them; let them starve and freeze! The people have no bread! Let them eat cake...

Post by Pete
It cannot be tied into any

Post by Pete
organizations in such a way as to declare themselves
righteous in any fashion.

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for
yourself then that is your reward.

James makes no such stipulation that one *must* also
be "born again".
I know many people who say they "believe", who are
clearly not "born again", but *do* James 1:27.
And I, do not fault them.

No one can play both sides of the street, there is a way that seems
righteous to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Oh, you really ought to think on that one.

Post by Pete
If one is not told and
they fall into death and you held the key to eternal life would you not
share some of the blame? Freely received, freely give. I am also faulting
the belief systems of some. They didn't make it up but they sure were
conned into believing whatever it was.
When the world unites under on religion, I will be one of the ones you
would be throwing rocks at. Fortunately I won't be here.

You expect to be raptured, huh? Maybe. Maybe God won't notice you don't feel you have to 'love your neighbor' and help others in need if they don't believe what you believe, and that unbelievers shouldn't bother helping anyone because they aren't doing it for God.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are attributing anyone doing James 1:27 ***without***
being "born again", as doing it *for* themselves.
You are an idiot.

You are an foolish for thinking that you are doing it for any other reason.
You sure aren't doing it for God,
and you aren't doing it out of a loving
nature.

There you go debasing others again. Why would he do it then? Does he want to make them fat and gluttonous by feeding them, or does he want them to look foolish by giving them clothing that doesn't flatter them enough or goes against the current fashions? Or would he just be doing it for himself because he needs to clean out his closets and cupboards?

I understand it at a far different level than yourself.

Can't argue with that since Pete shows little evidence of 'understanding' much of anything.

Post by Pete
Judaism was a true religion, ordained by God with an expected outcome. How
can you in any way relate the two?

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to
be one of the fellows when helping out.

Like what. Be specific.
Like having a beer? Ewwww, da boogey-man's
in da "spirits" o de alcohol.
So, dropping a quarter in a jukebox or a pinball
machine, that one must be spotted by the world!!!
LMFAO!
Hell! We all know those pinball machines are
really demon possessed! And those "jukeboxes"
making the sound of a human voice. Gee, ain't
no person in that box, it must be witchcraft!!!
You better burn that there thing son!!!
Ludicrious? Perhaps.
Yet, there are many who have thought as much.

Reminds me of your claim this week that men are never called "goats" in the Bible. Yes, the Bible does say some excesses are sin, and not only if you're 'offending' someone and causing them to sin by doing so.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be ...a drunkard ...with such an one no not to eat.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor DRUNKDARDS, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

...

Post by Pete
there are lots of them in Church on Sunday Morning.
Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of
the heart.

Yet, there are those who are "pure of heart", who indeed
do as much, who believe in your "Jesus", but are not
"born again" per your definition / understanding.

Any atheist who follows "true religions" is a true goody, goody.

And you think being a "goody, goody" is bad, right? You're quite the comedian.

No doubt God is getting quite a few laughs from the attitudes you inadvertently reveal.

Psa. 37:13, "The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming."

Any man.

Ah, so it is a "work" that is an *imperative*, lest your
"religion" be vain.

No, we have to over ride the will of God in our lives to be unbridled.
If one walks in the spirit, they walk the in ways of the Lord. Their desire
is to please God, a desire, not a work.

Ah, they just have to desire to; they don't have to really do it.

Post by Pete
And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain.

No it doesn't.

Post by Pete
I have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

I have no need of such from you.

Pete doesn't understand that verse.

Post by Up from the Abyss
However, neither have you any "real food or drink"
to offer me. Thus, you have nothing that I need.
Besides, you might send me mixed fibers, and I wouldn't
wear them!

LOL, I can just imaging you in a polyester suit, shirt, tie and belt with
bright colors dancing under a mirrored ball with shoes that match.
Laughing, one hot dude in his day eh?

Again, Pete misunderstands. Polyester is not what he meant. He meant 100% linen, cotton, or wool, single fibers.

Up from the Abyss

2014-04-14 03:50:34 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

In another response, you claimed that in order to be
"believers", they *had* to be "born again", or they
were not "believers".
Thus, you *add* or *tag* that upon or in addition unto.

To have faith one must be a believer.

The premise.

Post by Pete
To be born again one must have been given faith by God.

Tag 1.

Post by Pete
In order for rewards to be heavenly one must be born again
and do the works of God.

Tag 2.

And, until you can better elucidate upon the fullness
of those "works", it shall remain a tag.

Post by Pete
Anyone can do the works for works sake and they would
receive rewards for them in this life

"Rewards" from whom?

If I give, and I do not make it known. As an atheist,
who shall reward me, and what shall said reward be?

Post by Pete
and if they end up in hell just how could they claim a
heavenly reward if there were any?

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not
reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.

Rom 4:4 Now when a man works, his wages are not
credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.

Post by Pete
No, I added nothing, this is what is taught in the NT

Yet, we are discussing "true religion", and James, does
not specify the stipulations that you are adding to it.

Post by Pete
just like "This day I set before you a blessing and a curse"
from the beginnings of the works of the law. It is a spiritual
happening.

So why do you ignore that spiritual happening.

You despise the blessing, and embrace the curse.

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves.
Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does
not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a
mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately
forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the
perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it - not forgetting
what they have heard, but doing it - they will be blessed in what they
do.

Post by Pete
Has not one thing to do with me, I cannot add nor subtract
from Gods will and His promises unto us.

Indeed you can not. However, you subtract, in that you
excuse yourself of obedience.

Post by Up from the Abyss
So, if I not only visit, but also assist the fatherless and
widows in their affliction
Yet, I am not "born again", am I a part or one of the
"true religion"?

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for
yourself then that is your reward.

James makes no such stipulation that one *must* also
be "born again".
I know many people who say they "believe", who are
clearly not "born again", but *do* James 1:27.
And I, do not fault them.

No one can play both sides of the street, there is a way
that seems righteous to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Sounds very reminiscent of yourself.

Post by Pete
If one is not told and they fall into death and you held the
key to eternal life would you not share some of the blame?

However, that assumes that you hold the key.
From my perspective, you do not hold it.

And yes, if you do not speak up, their blood shall be
upon your head. Thus, your blood shall not be upon
my head.

Post by Pete
Freely received, freely give.

Indeed. But first, you have to have something to give.
I don't see much from you.

Post by Pete
I am also faulting the belief systems of some. They didn't
make it up but they sure were conned into believing
whatever it was.

Yet, there are those such as yourself, you make things
up on the fly. And, you con yourself.

Post by Pete
When the world unites under on religion, I will be one
of the ones you would be throwing rocks at.
Fortunately I won't be here.

LMFAO!!!

Oh the martyrdom of it.

No Pete, I wouldn't be throwing rocks at you. You
already tie a millstone around your own neck.

And, you better hope that you are correct, because
if the shit hit the fan, you are not equipped to deal
with nor handle it.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are attributing anyone doing James 1:27 ***without***
being "born again", as doing it *for* themselves.
You are an idiot.

You are an foolish for thinking that you are doing it for
any other reason. You sure aren't doing it for God, and
you aren't doing it out of a loving nature.

LMFAO!!!

Ah, so, assuming that *perhaps* I do so, and who knows,
given my unloving nature, I may not do so.

But assuming, that I do so, what do I get out of it?

Nothing. I am just a little poorer, or I have a little less.

What reward do I get?

Is God going to bless and reward an unloving atheist?

Oh, and BTW: I have *never* taken a tax credit
for donations. Now, does that mean that I have
never donated, or that I have never taken advantage
of or used such.

I understand it at a far different level than yourself.

Well, hopefully, you might reach my level someday!

LMFAO!!!

Post by Pete
Judaism was a true religion, ordained by God with an
expected outcome. How can you in any way relate the
two?

Who is the "root"? Who was grafted into what?

That you go as far as you do, to divorce yourself
from the root, only leaves you in the cold.

So, if Judaism was a "true religion", then the widow
who offered the mite, without being "born again",
demonstrates that lack of adding the stipulation of
being "born again" to it. Just as the "Samaritan",
loved his neighbor, even though Samaritans were
considered as "profane", not unlike that manner in
which you see me.

Post by Up from the Abyss
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to
be one of the fellows when helping out.

Like what. Be specific.
Like having a beer? Ewwww, da boogey-man's
in da "spirits" o de alcohol.
So, dropping a quarter in a jukebox or a pinball
machine, that one must be spotted by the world!!!
LMFAO!
Hell! We all know those pinball machines are
really demon possessed! And those "jukeboxes"
making the sound of a human voice. Gee, ain't
no person in that box, it must be witchcraft!!!
You better burn that there thing son!!!
Ludicrious? Perhaps.
Yet, there are many who have thought as much.

That you would even think such a thing shows where
your head is at.

LMAO!!! You really don't get it.

I did say, like what, be specific. Yet, you offered not
a single specific in your response here.

Because, from my perspective, you are a fraud. You
are no different than Michael Christ. Except that, unlike
you, I don't have to play stupid little games and say, oh,
his initials are MC. No, I just come out and say it.
Call a spade a spade.

Post by Pete
Anything can be taken to an excess. Like eating. The only
reason I wouldn't be doing any of those things would be if
it offended you.

I am not your "brother", but I am your "neighbor".

And yes, your eating of that which is tame' I find to
be offensive. As either an atheist, or when I was a
"believer". But, you didn't care enough when I was
a "brother / believer", thus, did you cause me to
stumble and fall?

I find your anomia to also be highly offensive for one
that claims to be a "born again" "believer". Again, I
found such offensive, as both a "brother / believer",
and as an atheist.

Did "ton anomian" which you live by, contibute to
my love growing cold?

But, you refuse to cease from such things.

Post by Pete
The bible does not say they are sin.

So, nowhere does your "Bible" make a distinction
between that which you may or may not eat.

The same distinction, in which your "Jesus" walked,
and whom you are called to walk as he walked.

Post by Up from the Abyss
If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You'd be no different that the typical RCC'er that followed
their rites and rituals, confessing on Sun and sinning Mon
thru Sat.

So, you are indeed stipulating, adding or tagging on that
it is not the true religion unless you are also "born again".
And no! Unlike you, I would be resting upon shabat.
"As God did from His" [cf Heb 4:10].

Fine for you, but what has that to do with me?

<loud snort>

If you can not see it, then you may continue to walk
in your blindness.

Post by Pete
Every day is unto the Lord.

So, you would rather that some fall, by following your
example of disobedience.

Post by Pete
When one works, employed, do it as unto the Lord.

Col 3:23 whatsoever ye do, work heartily, as unto the Lord,
and not unto men;

Post by Pete
I can rest from my works, since not one work that I do can
add to the righteousness of God imputed to me.

Yet, you do not "rest" from your works of this world. You
do not enter His rest in that regard.

BTW Pete, are you self-employed?

Post by Pete
Now I can focus on what He tells me to do.

Yet, you refuse to believe.

Heb 4:2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us,
just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to
them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.

Thus, the "good news" is of no value to you.

Post by Pete
I need to listen best I can, to him. He will work in me both
to want and to do His will.

So why do you resist the Ruakh haQodesh?

Anyone can be a pretender

LMFAO!!!
And *again*, you prove my point. That it is *not* the
"true religion" unless one *also* meets the criteria that
you are adding or tagging on to it.
So, in order to be a part of the "true religion", you have
stipulated two "tags".

Again you make mistakes the same one done what, three
times so far in this single message alone?

Not at all.

But, never under estimate the power of denial. That
you can't, or won't see that you do, is your issue.

You claim that your "Bible" elsewhere states you *must*
also be "born again", and you claim, that only by being
"born again", can you be a part of the "true religion".

Yet, your "Bible" also states many things elsewhere. Must
you also do those to be part of the "true religion"?

Such as, it speaks of certain things of a certainty for those
who desecrate His shabats.

Post by Pete
there are lots of them in Church on Sunday Morning.
Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of
the heart.

Yet, there are those who are "pure of heart", who indeed
do as much, who believe in your "Jesus", but are not
"born again" per your definition / understanding.

Born Again is an understanding of God and His will.

LMFAO!!! Bullshit. "Born again", is being born of the
"Spirit", it is receiving the Ruakh haQodesh. Something
that does *not* require "understanding", it is a free gift,
that shall *lead* you into understanding.

Post by Pete
Jesus said "you must be born again".

"Jesus" also said, if you want to enter life, obey the
commandments.

You disregard the majority of that which your "godman"
"Jesus" stated, and excuse yourself of it by claiming that
it was only to the Jews. Yet, the word of your "Jesus",
is unto *all* flesh, that would be a part of the 'Elohey
Yisra'el.

And here, you claim the words of your "godman", but
they were spoken to the same audience. You have
decided for yourself, what you will, and what you won't
do.

Post by Pete
Look at all the ways people try to make that happen, but
they cannot. It is not of works lest any man boast, and
anyone who wants to get in by doing it there way is seeking
to control the situation. Look at you

No, look at you. You are in fact doing it your way, for you
excuse yourself of the things of your "God", you desecrate
the things of Him, you trample upon His "Word", and you
call it "good" and "holy".

Post by Pete
right now you are living life your way. Not Gods, and by
denying that there is no God

LMFAO!!!

And this coming from a so-called "born again" would is a
"beLIEver". You live life your own way as well. At least
I am honest to admit that I do. You have affirmed that
you *must* [imperative] uphold the laws of men, but you
have said *fuck you* to the things that your "God" has
asked of His people, and for His people to do.

And, in doing so, you deny Him. You affirm to those
like me, that there is *no* God. Your own life, lifestyle
and words, affirm as much. There is nothing about you
that is "peculiar" and sets you apart as one of "God".

It is people like you, who cause "God's" name to be
blasphemed.

Post by Pete
does not release you from your responsibility to yourself
and God.

Yet, here I am, speaking with you. Because when He calls,
you do not hear, when He speaks, you won't listen.

Post by Pete
Nothing you can do will earn you points of rewards in
Heaven if you had any idea of covering your bets.

LMFAO!!! You are a fool.

See my reply in the discussion between Vince and James.

I am not trying to cover my bets. I know the difference.
You however, do not.

You want the prize, but you refuse to compete according
to the rules.

Post by Pete
All mans works are as filty rags, period.

Yes, you are a menstrual rag. Not just your "works",
but the rest of you as well.

Post by Pete
Let that man not deceive himself and thing he will receive
of God for any works.

Nor, let anyone deceive themselves as you have done:

Isa 66:3e Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul
delighteth in their abominations: 4 I also will choose their delusions,
and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none
did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did that which
was evil in mine eyes, and chose that wherein I delighted not.

2 Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be judged who
believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You prefer to do the "works" of ton anomian. And not
to live and do according to your "God".

Post by Pete
Any atheist who follows "true religions" is a true goody, goody.

LMFAO!!!

Who says that I follow such?

After all, I am "unloving". So why would I bother.

LMFAO!!!

And so much for the good Samaritan, who not only
assisted the man, but also paid for his care. And
should that which he paid in advance have not been
enough, promised to pick up the rest of the tab as well.

Yeah, that sounds like a mere "goody, goody".
Not a man moved of true compassion for his
neighbor.

Speaking of which, as an atheist, am I not in need
of true and pure "spiritual" food? Yet, you have
offered me only sour drippings of milk. You have
not offered me real food or drink.

Nor, have you offered to pay for my care, but rather,
you have judged that I am "unloving", and thus not
worthy of your care.

You are acting in the same manner as those who passed
by the man, and not, in the manner of the Samaritan.

Ahh, so the mighty Pete has given a "stranger" a few bucks.
Big deal. Have you ever paid all the bills of said "stranger"
for an entire month or more? Even when you did not
have the money to do so? I know of some who have.
They did not give out of their riches, but out of their
compassion, and for the need of the other.

Post by Up from the Abyss
BTW: If **who** doesn't bridle his tongue?

Any man.

Ah, so it is a "work" that is an *imperative*, lest your
"religion" be vain.

LMAO!!! You are hilarious.

If you do not bridle your tongue, your religion is worthless
and mere vanity. It is something, that you *must* strive
for. That you must strive to do.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:

But you, you don't even really know what "sin" is.

Post by Pete
we have to over ride the will of God in our lives to be unbridled.

Really?

Post by Pete
If one walks in the spirit, they walk the in ways of the Lord.

Assuming, that it is the Ruakh haQodesh, and that they
are willing to follow the leading thereof.

You, do not follow the leading of your "God", you might
follow the leading of a "Gawd" of your own making, a
"Gawd" you have made in your own image, according
to your own ways, according to the desires of your own
heart. But, you certainly do not follow the leading of
YHVH 'Eloheyenu! You do not know Him.

Post by Pete
Their desire is to please God, a desire, not a work.

A "fruit". And thus, they walk in the ways that are pleasing
to YHVH 'Eloheyenu. In the ways, that He has asked of
His people, and for His people to walk therein.

But you o man! You have chosen your own ways, and
your soul delights in your abominations! You have chosen
that which is *evil* in His sight, and chosen ways in which
He delights not. Thus, your own "God", shall reward you
with delusion so that you shall believe the lie.

Post by Pete
And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain. I
have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

I have no need of such from you.
However, neither have you any "real food or drink"
to offer me. Thus, you have nothing that I need.
Besides, you might send me mixed fibers, and I wouldn't
wear them!

LOL, I can just imaging you in a polyester suit, shirt, tie and
belt with bright colors dancing under a mirrored ball with
shoes that match. Laughing, one hot dude in his day eh?

Nothing wrong with polyester. It is not a mixed fiber.

However, your imagery here, only reveals how little
you discern and know of the one to whom you are
speaking.

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Yet, you still partake of things that came down from her.
Thus, though you realize it not, you are a partaker with
her.

No, because my heart and soul are with God, and pleasing him.

<loud snort> LMFAO!!!

Never under estimate the power of denial.

You only affirm your "delusion".

Post by Pete
I am being perfected by the renewing of my mind.

What a shame your heart was left out. And I would
suggest you get your money back for the "renewing"
of your mind. I think you got abby something ...

Yeah, that's it, Abby Normal.

Post by Pete
My spirit is correct

Yeah, I know "satanists" that say the same of theirs.

Post by Pete
the rest of me has to catch up, and get rid of bad habits
or whatever. I am being delivered by learning the truths
of God and understanding them, deeper and deeper,
week by week. Same as any other Born Again believer.

How long have you been a "born again" "believer"?

I seem to recall seeing you around these groups say
perhaps as long as 15 years ago. Yet, this is all the
further that you have progressed? Still choking upon
milk.

Post by Pete
There may be some understandings I have that are part
of her misunderstandings that were never addressed in
the reformation and since.

The "reformation", like so many others, made a start,
but never finished. Never attained to the goal, or the
fullness of aletheia.

I have mentioned that many, many times. Many would
argue the point. But it is true.

Yet, you are no better. You may have perhaps made
a start, but you are further away from the goal now,
than you were then.

Yet, there was so much more. But you can't see it.

I see more as I grow, what is to fault with that? Some grow in
certain areas faster than others. God deals with us as individuals,
we are not clones of each other even if there are broad similarities.
One a foot, one a hand, should one fault the other? No, if they
are of the same body then they should work together.

Indeed, all do progress at different rates. But at this rate,
you'll be over a thousand years of age, before you even
grasp the basics.

And, you are one to speak regarding the same body
and working together. Hi ho Silver there.

Post by Up from the Abyss
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

LOL. Are you that desperate?

Not at all. Yet, you did indeed "glom" onto it. And you
also, tag onto it.

Only from your viewpoint.

You have revealed, that not only did you "glom" onto it,
but you are also no different than any other cult that
I have encountered.

Post by Pete
There are a whole lot of areas with wide gaps in
your understandings.

LMFAO!!! So you claim. Yet, you are shown that you
are completely inept and unable to enlighten me.

Post by Pete
I have a lot of friends who are hard core, and other who are
so-so because their families always were that. Friday nights
you can see a steady stream of cars leaving Salt Lake heading
west to Vegas, or Heading north to the Indian reservations.
Sunday they all poor back in town, and they were not on
missionary trips either. LOL

Some "sins" are obvious. But those which really should
worry you, are the ones that are not obvious to you.
Some of which, you do not see at all.

Even if, my sins are covered under the blood.

Not "willful" sin. And, refusal to come to knowledge of
the "truth", is also a "willful" sin. For as you reject the
knowledge of Him, so also, shall He reject you.

If you refuse to love His truth, He shall "reward" you
for it with delusion.

Post by Pete
I could have errors of omission

You have a multitude.

Post by Pete
covered under the Blood of Jesus

No. The "covering", is for those "sins" that were done
aforetime. Current "sin" that is the result of rejecting
aletheia, is not covered. Nor, is willful "sin".

Post by Pete
Jesus is my High Priest in heaven, my advocate.
There is none like Him and I thank Him frequently.

Yet, if you continue to transgress, if you continue to
sin, to break the law, there is no advocate on earth
not in heaven that can get you off.

So, why do you continue to transgress?

Post by Up from the Abyss
So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?

To receive any reward in the next life for it you do.

It is the way of promise, the way of the Lord. Not my way.

So, you claim that is the way of your "Lord", but you refuse
to go the whole way. You stop short of His way, but rather,
do indeed go your own way.

Post by Pete
The works I do that are on my own will be burnt up so that
only the gold remains, some enter by the skin of their teeth,
and no treasures stored. As I am late to the party so to speak
I don't know if anything is stored up, but I have placed myself
in Gods hands that He will guide me to do His bidding, and
sluff off the old me.

I hope you are correct. But you have a long long ways to go.
You are too much of the flesh, too much of this world. And
from what I have seen and know of you, you reject His ways
far too much.

<snip>

Linda Lee

2014-04-08 16:28:42 UTC

Post by Pete
I find that hard to believe. Yes, they might tag on to that verse
about true religion but they also tag on very much other stuff,
plus heresies.

Yet, you yourself do likewise.
You tag on many things, some of which, are heresy from my
perspective.

I do not add it too "true religion".

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet.

Nope. It stands on its own.

You are doing the things of "true religion". If you do it for yourself then
that is your reward.

Post by Up from the Abyss
Jam 1:27c and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
What defines that by which one is "spotted" by the world?

One that partakes of worldly things on occasion, trying to be one of the
fellows when helping out.

Post by Up from the Abyss
If I also, am *not* "born again", yet am unspotted by the
world, am I a part or one of the "true religion"?

You'd be no different that the typical RCC'er that followed their rites and
rituals, confessing on Sun and sinning Mon thru Sat.

Anyone can be a pretender, there are lots of them in Church on Sunday
Morning. Doing means little or a lot, depending on the state of the heart.

Any man. And it goes on to say the religious service was done in vain.

No it doesn't.

Post by Pete
I have not sent you or Linda any clothing or food.

And with your answer you show you not only don't understand James 1:27 (as he and I have not indicated we are in any need), but you thereby show you don't think you need love your neighbor/fellow man, you only "love" those whom you believe have the Holy Spirit like you claim to have. (No "good Samaritan" you! No doubt you'd have been one to cross the street to avoid helping the poor beaten man in Luke 10:33-37 because he didn't believe as you do.) So it sounds likely you don't feel you have to help anyone because you make it very clear here that you think you're the only one with the Holy Spirit (which is proof positive you've never received it). You attempt to exalt yourself and debase others with nearly every post. No one will ever accuse you of being "humble".

James 4:6, "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble".

Christ said in Matt. 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

Post by Pete
You might declare something I say as a heresy to your
understandings but not from a biblical standpoint.

LMAO!!!

Post by Pete
The RCC would also declare me as such since I oppose
their heresies, all of which the Bible addresses.

Yet, you have not as of yet totally come out of her, and
freed yourself from *all* of her stuff. You still cling to
some, though you realize it not.

I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

Post by Pete
There may be some understandings I have that are
part of her misunderstandings that were never addressed in the reformation
and since. The gifts of the spirit is one area that they squashed and in
thinking about that it probably was so they could keep their authority with
the pope on down and sit on all the "little people".

Lol! Like you attempt to do, oh self-exalted one.

Post by Pete
None follow only that verse, that call themselves a religion.

Nor, do you follow only that verse. And, yes, many also
claim that verse and that they have the one true religion.
You are only revealing your naiveté.

Nope. Any religion that would want to appear Godly would
glom onto "true religion" in order to appear as an angel of light.

Like yourself?

LOL. Are you that desperate?

Perhaps he is referring to your tendency to attempt to exalt yourself over others.

Post by Pete
The mormon's would appear to be the best at following it on
the surface. Yet I'd bet there are more hypocrites to their
doctrines in their temples than most any other religion/cult.

I don't see them as any better, nor any worse.

Post by Pete
The Believer is called to have a relationship direct with God
the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. A direct and personal
relationship.

So, the "true religion", requires more than simply James 1:27.
You are saying as much here. Thus, like I said, you also
tag things unto it.
So, must I also be "born again", to be part of the "true religion"?
<snip>

To receive any reward in the next life for it you do. You can still earn a
reward for it in this life as do many rich benefactors. (besides the tax
benefits )

Pete

2014-04-09 06:52:20 UTC

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC
translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

This is typical of you. Has nothing to do with the bibles I read.

duke

2014-04-09 15:29:03 UTC

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC
translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

This is typical of you. Has nothing to do with the bibles I read.

Then your bibles are not valid.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

Pete

2014-04-09 15:32:24 UTC

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC
translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

This is typical of you. Has nothing to do with the bibles I read.

Then your bibles are not valid.

Neither are yours according to those standards.

duke

2014-04-10 18:20:18 UTC

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC
translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

This is typical of you. Has nothing to do with the bibles I read.

Then your bibles are not valid.

Neither are yours according to those standards.

My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good bible.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

Barry Lutz Sr.

2014-04-10 18:53:23 UTC

<My guys canonized the original>
That's he funniest quote I've read since Clinton said fellatio is not an act
of sex!!

Post by duke

On Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:42 -0700 (PDT), Linda Lee

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Pete
I was never a part of her.

Where do you think the English versions of the Bible came from? The RCC
translated the Septuagint and NT Greek texts into Latin.

This is typical of you. Has nothing to do with the bibles I read.

Then your bibles are not valid.

Neither are yours according to those standards.

My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good
bible.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

Pete

2014-04-10 19:15:35 UTC

Post by duke
My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good bible.

Even though your guys are still making up bibles, and have many conflicting
versions you have your faith misplaced. Your guys pretended to canonized.

Barry Lutz Sr.

2014-04-10 19:22:43 UTC

Post by duke
My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good bible.

Even though your guys are still making up bibles, and have many conflicting
versions you have your faith misplaced. Your guys pretended to canonized.
---
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tyndale-Bible/109742789043413#

The Tyndale Bible generally refers to the body of biblical translations by
William Tyndale. Tyndale’s Bible is credited with being the first English
translation to work directly from Hebrew and Greek texts. Furthermore it was
the first English biblical translation that was mass-produced as a result of
new advances in the art of printing. The term Tyndale's Bible is not
strictly correct, because Tyndale never published a complete Bible. Prior to
his execution Tyndale had only finished translating the entire New Testament
and roughly half of the Old Testament. Of the latter, the Pentateuch, Jonah
and a revised version of the book of Genesis were published during his
lifetime. His other Old Testament works were first used in the creation of
the Matthew Bible and also heavily influenced every major English
translation of the Bible that followed.

Pete

2014-04-10 20:02:39 UTC

Post by duke
My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good bible.

Even though your guys are still making up bibles, and have many conflicting
versions you have your faith misplaced. Your guys pretended to canonized.
---
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tyndale-Bible/109742789043413#
The Tyndale Bible generally refers to the body of biblical translations by
William Tyndale. Tyndale’s Bible is credited with being the first English
translation to work directly from Hebrew and Greek texts. Furthermore it was
the first English biblical translation that was mass-produced as a result of
new advances in the art of printing. The term Tyndale's Bible is not
strictly correct, because Tyndale never published a complete Bible. Prior to
his execution Tyndale had only finished translating the entire New Testament
and roughly half of the Old Testament. Of the latter, the Pentateuch, Jonah
and a revised version of the book of Genesis were published during his
lifetime. His other Old Testament works were first used in the creation of
the Matthew Bible and also heavily influenced every major English
translation of the Bible that followed.

This is true up until the other versions within the last 150 years or so.
Now with all the paraphrased and hybrid versions coming out almost daily
one needs to be wise.

Barry Lutz Sr.

2014-04-10 20:40:43 UTC

Post by duke
My guys canonized the original. Throw your kjv away and get you a good bible.

Even though your guys are still making up bibles, and have many conflicting
versions you have your faith misplaced. Your guys pretended to canonized.
---
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tyndale-Bible/109742789043413#
The Tyndale Bible generally refers to the body of biblical translations by
William Tyndale. Tyndaleʼs Bible is credited with being the first English
translation to work directly from Hebrew and Greek texts. Furthermore it was
the first English biblical translation that was mass-produced as a result of
new advances in the art of printing. The term Tyndale's Bible is not
strictly correct, because Tyndale never published a complete Bible. Prior to
his execution Tyndale had only finished translating the entire New Testament
and roughly half of the Old Testament. Of the latter, the Pentateuch, Jonah
and a revised version of the book of Genesis were published during his
lifetime. His other Old Testament works were first used in the creation of
the Matthew Bible and also heavily influenced every major English
translation of the Bible that followed.

This is true up until the other versions within the last 150 years or so.
Now with all the paraphrased and hybrid versions coming out almost daily
one needs to be wise.
---
Anything after the Original 1611 KJV/With Apocrypha has been altered to
accommodate some particular
Daughter of Rome's [Protestant Denomination] Pet slant on "Men's"
Doctrines.
Rome has a fondness for their hacked to pieces version of the KJ Bible, in
any deviated version, the Douay–Rheims Bible.

Up from the Abyss

2014-04-14 02:53:43 UTC

<snip>

Post by Linda Lee
(No "good Samaritan" you!

Ahh, you beat me to it. I was going to respond using
that to one of his points. But, I shall use it in response
anyway. As well as a few things that you have already
stated. Call it a "second" witness.

<snip>

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-16 04:04:57 UTC

<snip>

Post by Pete
I was a sinner, you are a sinner my your own
admission. Go back and read it again. The Bible,
the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

But it doesn't trump "verbal". You yourself indicated
that verbal is greater than "Scripture".

And I quote:

"Verbal > scripture"
[/quote]

verbal, is greater than, Scripture.

Even your choice of capitalization is indicative.
And no, it is *not* because it is the beginning
of a sentence, for your previous sentence, was
not capitalized.

I heard "God" say that the "Jesus" you follow was
a charlatan. Thus, if "verbal > Scripture", that
trumps anything you say.

Tis dangerous ground ...

Pete

2014-03-16 15:43:03 UTC

Post by Up from the Abyss
<snip>

Post by Pete
I was a sinner, you are a sinner my your own
admission. Go back and read it again. The Bible,
the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

But it doesn't trump "verbal". You yourself indicated
that verbal is greater than "Scripture".
"Verbal > scripture"
[/quote]
verbal, is greater than, Scripture.
Even your choice of capitalization is indicative.
And no, it is *not* because it is the beginning
of a sentence, for your previous sentence, was
not capitalized.

Well, you definitely buggered that one up real good.
You took it out of context, I looked because I know that is not something I
do. All said of God must not contradict His word, the Bible.

Here is the quote, in context

/QUOTE

And how did you seek?
What was the answer given, and how was it given?

The same way I always do, I ask Him. He answered.

Verbally? Via "Scripture"? Casting lots?

verbal > verbal
Verbal > scripture
/End QUOTE

I ask noted First, His answer method?
He never negates His word.

Post by Up from the Abyss
I heard "God" say that the "Jesus" you follow was
a charlatan. Thus, if "verbal > Scripture", that
trumps anything you say.
Tis dangerous ground ...

It is always dangerous ground when something is taken out of context.

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-22 04:22:55 UTC

Post by Pete
I was a sinner, you are a sinner my your own
admission. Go back and read it again. The Bible,
the Word of God Trumps ALL religions.

Well, you definitely buggered that one up real good.

Did I? Was your answer to my question clear,
or was it vague, and left open to "interpretation".

When you give me a vague answer, I am going
to do the same with it *every* time.

Post by Pete
You took it out of context, I looked because I know
that is not something I do. All said of God must not
contradict His word, the Bible.

So, would you care to share verbatim the last
verbal response you recieved?

Post by Pete
Here is the quote, in context
/QUOTE

And how did you seek?
What was the answer given, and how was it given?

The same way I always do, I ask Him. He answered.

Verbally? Via "Scripture"? Casting lots?

verbal > verbal
Verbal > scripture
/End QUOTE
I ask noted First, His answer method?

Are you asking me a question regarding your
own answer?

So, when you provide such a vague response,
to one so, what did you say ... one so spiritually
blinded as myself. What do you expect.

Besides, "greater than" is a viable reading
of that which you wrote. Given that you
did not elaborate to make your answer
clear in the first place.

Post by Pete
He never negates His word.

Does He now? So, how come you keep making
claims that you can not substantiate regarding His
Word.

If He never negates His Word, what excuse
do you have for not submitting to it. For not
upholding the law.

Why do you yourself, make His Word void.

Post by Up from the Abyss
I heard "God" say that the "Jesus" you follow was
a charlatan. Thus, if "verbal > Scripture", that
trumps anything you say.
Tis dangerous ground ...

It is always dangerous ground when something
is taken out of context.

I ask you for an answer, you gave me some vague
response. Of which, based upon the overall of that
which I have read from you, the manner in which I
have taken it, was not out of line from my perspective.

Besides, you should know by now, that I shall take
your statements and "overstate" them, to make a point.

Pete

2014-03-13 16:52:50 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before replying.
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the
devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that
loveth not his brother.

"A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another—just as I have
loved you, that you also love one another. By this everyone will know that
you are my disciples—if you have love for one another." (Joh 13:34-35 LEB)

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-16 04:04:13 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before
replying.

<snort>

Post by Pete
1Jn 3:9-10 KJV
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born
of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth
also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I
know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is
a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoso
keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God
been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:
6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to
walk even as he walked.

Pete

2014-03-16 15:20:19 UTC

Post by Pete
This may be hard for you to understand, so ponder before
replying.

<snort>

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth
also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You should have kept on reading.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in
him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not
seen him, neither known him.

No sin.

Post by Up from the Abyss
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I
know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is
a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoso
keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God
6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to
walk even as he walked.

Again, read on.

1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old
commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the
word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in
him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now
shineth.

Does not the law of Love cover everything?

Up from the Abyss

2014-03-22 04:20:10 UTC

"Pete" wrote: .

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth
also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You should have kept on reading.

Does it change the pshat reading of the verse above?
No.

Post by Pete
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our
sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever
sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
No sin.

And in order to not sin, one does not transgress the law.
For those who sin, also transgress the law.

Your own "Jesus" character, consistently affirmed to
uphold the law. As did Paul, in the simple statement:

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the law by this faith?
Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.