Discussion:
more Brash-itis - some truths
(too old to reply)
Carmen
2004-02-23 00:23:00 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:33 AM
Subject: more Brash-itis

Nga mihi o te ata ki a koutou
To forward on to friends and foe to help with the education of kiwis and
others who may be just a little bit interested.
snip

Brash: Brash has suggested he would hire a pakeha over a Maori of equal
merit because he said Maori could claim "unlimited tangi leave". The Press 6
Feb 2004
Under the new Holidays Act there is no such thing as unlimited bereavement,
no reference to tangi leave, and no differentiation on the basis of race or
religion.

- CTU president Ross Wilson also said it was "totally incorrect" for
Brash to claim the act gave Maori unlimited tangi leave.

- This was backed up by employment law specialist Phillipa Muir, a
partner at Auckland law firm Simpson Grierson, who also said bereavement
leave was not unlimited: "Don Brash is wrong in saying that"[1]

Everyone gets three days to mourn for an immediate family member, one day
for someone close to them. The employer still decides if it's a 'genuine
bereavement.

Brash: "Primary Health Organisations are established on a racial basis"
Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
PHO funding is based on the needs of the community that it services.
Factors such as age, gender, ethnicity and relative level of poverty are
taken into account for funding. This is because the health needs of these
groups will mean they will have greater need for services.

- We know that Maori life expectancy is lower than Pakeha, and
therefore this is a relevant factor. Dr Brash does not seem to be
objecting to the elderly generating more funding.
Brash: "The government's seabed and foreshore proposals give Maori a veto
power over anyone else's development." Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
Customary title will recognise mana and ancestral connection. It will not
allow the development of a commercial activity or a power of veto over new
resource uses. The Maori Land Court may grant whanau, hapu and iwi
specific customary rights. Development on the basis of these rights will be
restricted to the volume of resource used for the customary usage. This
is in effect a property right and other development will not be able to
override it, in the same way as happens now if anyone, Pakeha or Maori, has
a property right.

Brash: "In both healthcare and education government funding is now
influenced not just by need as it should, but also by the ethnicity of the
recipient" Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004

Need is still the primary driver of government funding, though governments
have long recognised that within socio-economic groups there are disparities
between Maori and non- Maori.

- Ministry figures show that little more than 2% of the health
budget and 1.6% of the education budget is spent on specific services for
Maori. Just because you hear there is a Maori Health Programme does not
mean that similar services are not available to the rest of the community.
They are.

Brash: A Lincoln University research proposal on footrot failed because the
'benefits to Maori were not sufficiently made clear."

Kim Hill TVOne, 4 Feb 2004
The Foundation for Research, Science and Technology strongly rejects claims
that research proposals (including sheep footrot) were declined because '
they did not focus enough on Maori." The proposals did not score as well as
many others against the seven assessment criteria FORST statement.

Lynda Scott: says it is scandalous that Counties Manakau DHB is supporting
unproven health practices, such as spiritual healing. RNZ Newswire 12 Feb
2004
Funding for spiritual healing was introduced in 1995 by the National
Government: Georgina te Heuheu "Having health services Mäori people feel
comfortable using is an important part of addressing the disparity in health
statistics between Mäori and Pakeha. If the availability of traditional
Mäori healing clinics encourages people to seek advice early, that is a very
good thing for everyone."[2]
This has been continued by Labour, along with other services such as
Hospital Chaplaincy that take account of those who believe spiritual values
add to their well being.

Lynda Scott: says that an elderly Pakeha woman was moved from Tauranga
Hospital's Kaupapa Ward to make way for a Maori Patient, and calls this is
an example of 'government endorsed racial separatism' NZ Herald 13 Feb 2004
The Kaupapa Ward was established in 1995 under a National Government. Any
patient, regardless of their ethnicity, can request to be treated by the
kaupapa team, who are trained to offer a service accommodating Maori
cultural perspectives. In this case the patient who was moved was occupying
a spare bed in the ward, and was asked to move when a patient requested to
be in the Ward.

Brash: "The Nelson-Tasman PHO is required to have half of the community
representatives on its board representing local iwi even through the number
of people actually belonging to those local iwi is a tiny fraction of the
population covered by that PHO." Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
There is no requirement that the Nelson-Tasman PHO has to have half its
community representatives representing local iwi. The local doctors and
other providers have determined the make-up of the Board. There was no
government directive and the make up of community representation differs
from PHO to PHO.

Brash: The Treaty settlement process has slowed considerably since Labour
took office. Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
Under National three major settlements were concluded, along with several
very small and non-comprehensive settlements.

- Under Labour six comprehensive settlements have been reached, two
are close to conclusion, four are in the midst of negotiations and others
are preparing to enter negotiations.

Brash: "National would remove race based features from legislation" Orewa
speech, 27 Jan 2004


Nick Smith is already backtracking from this saying only some clauses would
be removed:"Treaty references would not be removed from legislation
protecting the Maori language and some others which protect aspects of
culture, such as those governing the establishment of Te Papa."[3]

- Brash's proposal would mean amending Acts dating back to 1908,
including over 30 Acts passed under National led governments.

Brash: ".. Marlborough Girls College had banned the use of necklaces
carrying Christian or Jewish symbols around the neck but had explicitly said
it's okay for Maori to wear bone carvings etc.."

RNZ: Nine to Noon, 11Feb 2004 This is the College policy, it's not the
Government's. Is Dr Brash really going to dictate the policies of every
school and university?

- College policy is that any pupil, Maori or Pakeha, can wear a bone
carving or greenstone around their neck as a symbol of their cultural
identity as a New Zealander. Religious symbols can also be worn on a long
chain.

Brash: said Brownlee was "quite totally inappropriate" in calling John
Tamihere a ' black fella" Newsroom, 11 Feb 2004
Brash had just appointed Brownlee as their Maori Affairs spokesperson after
dropping their only Maori MP (Georgina te Heuheu) from the role after she
objected to his 'separatist' speech.

Brash: "But the plain fact of the matter is that the public of New Zealand
has witnessed a parade of race-based political correctness over the past
decade or more .....Taniwha stopping roading projects. NZ Herald 16 Feb 2004
The dispute caused little delay to the roading project. It resulted in the
protection of existing swamplands and habitats, an excellent environmental
outcome. Local Maori did not seek, and did not receive, any payment.

- Maori must be consulted on proposed road developments affecting
Maori land, land subject to any Maori claims settlement Act, or Maori
historical, cultural or spiritual interests. Maori are specified because
they are one major group that has not always been consulted concerning the
above.
Trevor
2004-02-23 01:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Hmmmm... Brash the liar!
Howard
2004-02-23 02:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor
Hmmmm... Brash the liar!
Its a bit rich for Labour supporters to accuse Brash of lying when there
appears to be no condemnation of Helen over Leanne-gate.

Trying to split hairs over whether Leanne was lying or merely
"misleading". The cheek of it. It shows Helen has no concept of truth as
most NZ'ers understand it!

[Follow-ups set to nz.politics]
steve
2004-02-23 04:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Why condemn Helen? Her Minster *proven* to have lied - and was sacked.
She was only sacked on Friday after Helen realized the fallout was too
great. On Thursday Helen was quite comfortable with Leanne
merely "misleading" the public.
I saw Helen's interview....and it seemed clear enough to me that the
difference between Thursday and Friday was an outright lie versus
half-truth.

When the outright lie was confirmed - Dalziel was gone.

At worst, Clark gave her Minister the benfit of the doubt....until there was
no doubt.

I have no problem with that. Had it gone the other way, Clark would have
made a mistake and an enemy of an innocent former Minister.
Post by Howard
Trying to split hairs over whether Leanne was lying or merely
"misleading". The cheek of it. It shows Helen has no concept of truth as
most NZ'ers understand it!
That applies to both Labour and National. If you don't like such
behaviour, you really can't vote for either one of them.
If you really believe that both sides are liars, why do you try to score
points by claiming that Bush is a liar so often?
I don't vote for Labour or National. I'm clean.
[Follow-ups re-set to nz.politics]
Oh yeah...have your say, then send replies elsewhere.

LOL!!!
Howard
2004-02-23 06:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve
I saw Helen's interview....and it seemed clear enough to me that the
difference between Thursday and Friday was an outright lie versus
half-truth.
So is it fair to say that half-truths are AOK by you Steve? Intentionally
misleading the public is acceptable, for a politician of any hue?

If so it rather does imply that anything you post can't be replied upon,
as for all we know it may be only half true, and you may well have been
setting out to deliberately mislead.

[followups set to nz.politics]
Malcolm
2004-02-26 00:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve
I have no problem with that. Had it gone the other way, Clark would have
made a mistake and an enemy of an innocent former Minister.
Like she did with Dover Samuels.
Malcolm
Wellington NZ

Remove the dot's to reply

steve
2004-02-23 03:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carmen
Brash: "But the plain fact of the matter is that the public of New Zealand
has witnessed a parade of race-based political correctness over the past
decade or more .....Taniwha stopping roading projects. NZ Herald 16 Feb
2004 The dispute caused little delay to the roading project. It resulted
in the protection of existing swamplands and habitats, an excellent
environmental outcome. Local Maori did not seek, and did not receive, any
payment.
-         Maori must be consulted on proposed road developments affecting
Maori land, land subject to any Maori claims settlement Act, or Maori
historical, cultural or spiritual interests. Maori are specified because
they are one major group that has not always been consulted concerning the
above.
Most Kiwis aren't interested in the truth, though, because they KNOW that
Maori are rorting the taxpayer......

They have also taken their eye off the economic policy ball.

Brash's approach to social services and the economy is a steroid-loaded
version of the policies Kiwis have already twice rejected.

It would be a shame to let the largely imaginary "favouritism" of Maori
obscure the view of other policies that most people definteily do NOT want.

Sure...some Maori - like ACT's Donna Awatere-Huata - may well be rorting tax
money.

But didn't TranzRail just manouvre the taxpayer into paying for the
renovation of its track?

A few Moari in flash vans bought my Iwi trusts and getting the odd
scholarship is going to be a helluva lot cheaper than the corporate welfare
the NZ Business community has grown used to.
Dave
2004-02-23 05:26:08 UTC
Permalink
"steve" <***@ok.org.nz> wrote in message news:UIe_b.27908

snip
Post by steve
A few Moari in flash vans bought my Iwi trusts and getting the odd
scholarship is going to be a helluva lot cheaper than the corporate welfare
the NZ Business community has grown used to.
And that would be the understatement of the year.....for sure.
Not that it's right.
Niether ideology does the average hard working NZer any good.
DW
steve
2004-02-23 06:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve
snip
Post by steve
A few Moari in flash vans bought my Iwi trusts and getting the odd
scholarship is going to be a helluva lot cheaper than the corporate
welfare
Post by steve
the NZ Business community has grown used to.
And that would be the understatement of the year.....for sure.
Not that it's right.
Niether ideology does the average hard working NZer any good.
DW
I agree.... FWIW. It wasn't a matter of either / or....but more a matter of
perspective - or the lack of it.
Mainlander
2004-02-25 01:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve
Post by Carmen
Brash: "But the plain fact of the matter is that the public of New Zealand
has witnessed a parade of race-based political correctness over the past
decade or more .....Taniwha stopping roading projects. NZ Herald 16 Feb
2004 The dispute caused little delay to the roading project. It resulted
in the protection of existing swamplands and habitats, an excellent
environmental outcome. Local Maori did not seek, and did not receive, any
payment.
-         Maori must be consulted on proposed road developments affecting
Maori land, land subject to any Maori claims settlement Act, or Maori
historical, cultural or spiritual interests. Maori are specified because
they are one major group that has not always been consulted concerning the
above.
Most Kiwis aren't interested in the truth, though, because they KNOW that
Maori are rorting the taxpayer......
They have also taken their eye off the economic policy ball.
Brash's approach to social services and the economy is a steroid-loaded
version of the policies Kiwis have already twice rejected.
Funny how National is up in the polls isn't it.

How many times have the Values Party been in government?
Post by steve
It would be a shame to let the largely imaginary "favouritism" of Maori
obscure the view of other policies that most people definteily do NOT want.
Sure...some Maori - like ACT's Donna Awatere-Huata - may well be rorting tax
money.
And endless Maori entities up and down the country.
Post by steve
But didn't TranzRail just manouvre the taxpayer into paying for the
renovation of its track?
No they didn't. That's utter crap. The government was prepared to buy up
the whole operation just to get the track. They bought it for political
reasons and because the Values hippies wanted them to
Post by steve
A few Moari in flash vans bought my Iwi trusts and getting the odd
scholarship is going to be a helluva lot cheaper than the corporate welfare
the NZ Business community has grown used to.
Businesses generate most of the wealth in this country, a few hippies
selling hemp aren't contributing much of anything.
Mainlander
2004-02-25 01:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carmen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:33 AM
Subject: more Brash-itis
Brash: "Primary Health Organisations are established on a racial basis"
Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
PHO funding is based on the needs of the community that it services.
Factors such as age, gender, ethnicity and relative level of poverty are
taken into account for funding. This is because the health needs of these
groups will mean they will have greater need for services.
Ethnicity, wow that's exactly what Brash is referring to. Need is not
based on race, as the above paragraph claims.
Post by Carmen
- We know that Maori life expectancy is lower than Pakeha, and
therefore this is a relevant factor.
Anything based on race is racist.
Post by Carmen
Dr Brash does not seem to be
objecting to the elderly generating more funding.
Nothing to do with race is it. But the whole way that PHOs are set up is
politically correct crap because it is based on the average in the
community and takes no account of individual circumstances.
Post by Carmen
Brash: "The government's seabed and foreshore proposals give Maori a veto
power over anyone else's development." Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
Customary title will recognise mana and ancestral connection. It will not
allow the development of a commercial activity or a power of veto over new
resource uses.
That's not what the Crown Solicitor told the Waitangi Tribunal is it?
Post by Carmen
Brash: "In both healthcare and education government funding is now
influenced not just by need as it should, but also by the ethnicity of the
recipient" Orewa speech, 27 Jan 2004
Need is still the primary driver of government funding, though governments
have long recognised that within socio-economic groups there are disparities
between Maori and non- Maori.
These don't exist because they are Maori or non Maori. They don't exist
because of race.
Post by Carmen
- Ministry figures show that little more than 2% of the health
budget and 1.6% of the education budget is spent on specific services for
Maori. Just because you hear there is a Maori Health Programme does not
mean that similar services are not available to the rest of the community.
They are.
I don't remember seeing any "Pakeha health programmes" lately.
Post by Carmen
- Brash's proposal would mean amending Acts dating back to 1908,
including over 30 Acts passed under National led governments.
Dr Brash is the current leader of the National Party. As he was not a
member of a previous National government, references to laws passed by
previous National governments are irrelevant.
Post by Carmen
Brash: said Brownlee was "quite totally inappropriate" in calling John
Tamihere a ' black fella" Newsroom, 11 Feb 2004
Brash had just appointed Brownlee as their Maori Affairs spokesperson after
dropping their only Maori MP (Georgina te Heuheu) from the role after she
objected to his 'separatist' speech.
Georgina Te Heuheu and in fact most of the Maori MPs in Parliament
represent tribal separatist interests.
Post by Carmen
Brash: "But the plain fact of the matter is that the public of New Zealand
has witnessed a parade of race-based political correctness over the past
decade or more .....Taniwha stopping roading projects. NZ Herald 16 Feb 2004
The dispute caused little delay to the roading project. It resulted in the
protection of existing swamplands and habitats, an excellent environmental
outcome. Local Maori did not seek, and did not receive, any payment.
Swamp doesn't deserve protection because of a non existent mythical being
called a taniwha.
Post by Carmen
- Maori must be consulted on proposed road developments affecting
Maori land, land subject to any Maori claims settlement Act, or Maori
historical, cultural or spiritual interests. Maori are specified because
they are one major group that has not always been consulted concerning the
above.
There's plenty of people who aren't consulted, this gives no reason why
Maori shoud have special consultation rights based on their race.
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