Ronald Dean
2004-04-03 16:38:13 UTC
<snip><snip>> > >
of
Okay, I'll give it a try. But I have no expectation of changing your
mind, neither do I expect to influence you to accept the Bible or
alter your invective railing against it.
My objective is to show that the Biblical portrayal of the law
is internally logical and especially to show that my view of the law
and the two covenants are Biblically based.
antisocial behavior or *evil doing*: i.e. after some activity was
carried out which resulted in harm to another person or theft
or destruction to his property.
The background for the law comes from the Old Testament.
God was not happy with man because of man's wickedness,
indeed we find this in Genesis, "The Lord saw that the
wickedness of man was great upon the earth and that every
imagination of the thoughts if his heart was only evil
continually".And the Lord was sorry he had made man
on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. (Gen.
6: 5, 6 rsv). Other versions say it repented God that
he had made man....
So apparently, the adding of the law was not God's
preferance. But it was needed.
The reason the law was given, in the first place was:
because of wickedness. However, its purpose was
to guide man his dealings with God and his fellow man.
But the law had a second purpose. a - two fold
function: it had a mundane and a spiritual side.
Logic dictates that a perfect God would decree a
perfect law. The Bible confirms the perfection of
the, "the Law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the
soul.... (Psa. 19: 7).
If a man lived in perfect and complete obedience to
the perfect law he himself would be perfect. But we
are imperfect! We are unable to be always in perfect
obedience to the law. Even if we did so, this would
not bring reward. The law was _not_ inaugurated to
bring reward.
This is understandable because in societies, civil laws
do not bring reward. If one does not steal, murder nor
commit perjury etc. He is not rewarded for being good
or living in obedience to civil laws.
But if you violate the same laws, there is a penalty to be
paid.
2) what the consequences of transgression are
Where the law is violated, a penalty is to be exacted.
This holds true in civilized society: assuming
the perpetrator is caught. One may rob a bank, kill a
bystander or a clerk and occasionally a criminal gets
away with it. But this is also a transgression of the
law of God; a penalty will be exacted by God, and
there is no getting away with it. We are disturbed when
this happens and no one is ever caught. Our sense of
justice demands retribution. But sometimes this doesn't
happen - not in this life.
was _not_ because mankind was righteous, but because
of his evil nature. Man, the second party to the first
covenant broke the covenant, transgressed the laws
and lived estranged from God. IOW the law _could_
not bring salvation, Sin is a transgression of the law.
And everyone sins. But sin cannot enter into heaven.
The New Covenant took away the law for righteneous.
We no longer stand in judgement through the law.
The New Covenant brought about salvation through
Grace.
man to earn his way into heaven. The law was
decreed because of unrighteneous in man. Yet
once establisned, it became our standard of
measure - a yeardstick by which we are measured.
Since the law describes a perfect man, we fall
short of the law. And the sinner is judged in
terms of the law. If we violate even one
commandment we are guilty of all.
James writes: And the person who keeps all
of the laws, but one is as guilty as the person
who has broken all of Gods laws. (James 2: 10)
If one choses to live under the law he must
live them each and every one of them. The
law a curse, because those who rely upon
the law for justification are those who chose
to live under the law are under are subject to
the condemnation that is in the law.
"For all who rely on works of the law are under
a curse; for it is written Cursed be every one
who does not abide by all things written in the
book of the law, and do them.
Now it is evident that no man is justified before
God by the law for he through faith is righteous
shall live....
The law doesn not rest on faith, for he who
does them shall live by them.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law..."
(Gal. 3: 10 - 13)
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
to everyone who believes." (Rom. 10: 4)
"I do not frustrate the grace of God, for if
righteneous comes by the law, then Christ is
dead in vain." (Gal.2: 21)
"The law was our school master to bring us
unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come we are no longer
under a schoolmaster. (Gal.3: 24,25)
From these and other verses it is obvious that
what I have written if based upon the Bible
and from the Biblical perspective this is
internally logical and factual.
honestly and forthright rather than try to make a
caricature of it.
Ron
You were the one who claimed that these books explained something. I
didn't see any logical explanations in these books. Please post the
explanations that you claim exist in these books.
_You_ made the initional claim. Now you are trying to shift the burdendidn't see any logical explanations in these books. Please post the
explanations that you claim exist in these books.
proof to me. In this way you hope to weasel out of your burden.
mind, neither do I expect to influence you to accept the Bible or
alter your invective railing against it.
My objective is to show that the Biblical portrayal of the law
is internally logical and especially to show that my view of the law
and the two covenants are Biblically based.
1) why the law was _given_ in the first place,
Laws almost always come as the consequences of someantisocial behavior or *evil doing*: i.e. after some activity was
carried out which resulted in harm to another person or theft
or destruction to his property.
The background for the law comes from the Old Testament.
God was not happy with man because of man's wickedness,
indeed we find this in Genesis, "The Lord saw that the
wickedness of man was great upon the earth and that every
imagination of the thoughts if his heart was only evil
continually".And the Lord was sorry he had made man
on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. (Gen.
6: 5, 6 rsv). Other versions say it repented God that
he had made man....
So apparently, the adding of the law was not God's
preferance. But it was needed.
The reason the law was given, in the first place was:
because of wickedness. However, its purpose was
to guide man his dealings with God and his fellow man.
But the law had a second purpose. a - two fold
function: it had a mundane and a spiritual side.
Logic dictates that a perfect God would decree a
perfect law. The Bible confirms the perfection of
the, "the Law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the
soul.... (Psa. 19: 7).
If a man lived in perfect and complete obedience to
the perfect law he himself would be perfect. But we
are imperfect! We are unable to be always in perfect
obedience to the law. Even if we did so, this would
not bring reward. The law was _not_ inaugurated to
bring reward.
This is understandable because in societies, civil laws
do not bring reward. If one does not steal, murder nor
commit perjury etc. He is not rewarded for being good
or living in obedience to civil laws.
But if you violate the same laws, there is a penalty to be
paid.
2) what the consequences of transgression are
Where the law is violated, a penalty is to be exacted.
This holds true in civilized society: assuming
the perpetrator is caught. One may rob a bank, kill a
bystander or a clerk and occasionally a criminal gets
away with it. But this is also a transgression of the
law of God; a penalty will be exacted by God, and
there is no getting away with it. We are disturbed when
this happens and no one is ever caught. Our sense of
justice demands retribution. But sometimes this doesn't
happen - not in this life.
3) why a new covenant was given where salvation
is based upon faith and the grace of God, rather
than the law.
I addressed this earlier. The reason the law was givenis based upon faith and the grace of God, rather
than the law.
was _not_ because mankind was righteous, but because
of his evil nature. Man, the second party to the first
covenant broke the covenant, transgressed the laws
and lived estranged from God. IOW the law _could_
not bring salvation, Sin is a transgression of the law.
And everyone sins. But sin cannot enter into heaven.
The New Covenant took away the law for righteneous.
We no longer stand in judgement through the law.
The New Covenant brought about salvation through
Grace.
4) Why the law of God called a curse.
The law came not as an instrument to enableman to earn his way into heaven. The law was
decreed because of unrighteneous in man. Yet
once establisned, it became our standard of
measure - a yeardstick by which we are measured.
Since the law describes a perfect man, we fall
short of the law. And the sinner is judged in
terms of the law. If we violate even one
commandment we are guilty of all.
James writes: And the person who keeps all
of the laws, but one is as guilty as the person
who has broken all of Gods laws. (James 2: 10)
If one choses to live under the law he must
live them each and every one of them. The
law a curse, because those who rely upon
the law for justification are those who chose
to live under the law are under are subject to
the condemnation that is in the law.
"For all who rely on works of the law are under
a curse; for it is written Cursed be every one
who does not abide by all things written in the
book of the law, and do them.
Now it is evident that no man is justified before
God by the law for he through faith is righteous
shall live....
The law doesn not rest on faith, for he who
does them shall live by them.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law..."
(Gal. 3: 10 - 13)
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
to everyone who believes." (Rom. 10: 4)
"I do not frustrate the grace of God, for if
righteneous comes by the law, then Christ is
dead in vain." (Gal.2: 21)
"The law was our school master to bring us
unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come we are no longer
under a schoolmaster. (Gal.3: 24,25)
From these and other verses it is obvious that
what I have written if based upon the Bible
and from the Biblical perspective this is
internally logical and factual.
I just want you to post these explanations so
that we can examine them to > see if they are
logical or not.
Fine, I hope you read read everything and respondthat we can examine them to > see if they are
logical or not.
honestly and forthright rather than try to make a
caricature of it.
Ron