OT: can you feel wonderful and be diabetic (or worse)?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Last year, they started calling me in for annual blood tests (presumably
as I passed 60). After the first one, they told me I was close to
borderline diabetic, but nothing to worry about (usual admonishments to
eat/live more healthily).
After this year's blood test, they called me in, and over the next few
days, have decided I'm diabetic - so I'm on the full works: insulin
pens, and a talkative little device to test my blood sugar. (I must say,
the whole thing is made very easy nowadays.) Today Dr. Laura rang to say
there are signs I may have something wrong with my pancreas. (Probably
getting ahead of things: I have a scan on Saturday.)
The thing is: I feel really well! I feel strong, have no trouble
sleeping, no feeling sleepy or unwell, no itching, no nothing: I feel, I
think it is true to say, better than I have for years (apart from a
tingly little finger, but I've had that since well before CoViD): if
they hadn't called me in, I'd have had no idea anything was wrong. Even
a fungal infection I'd had since January and told them about, for which
they gave me a pill and some cream, cleared up completely in about two
or three days. (Sorry if that's TMI.)
Can other diabetic UMRAts (assuming that _is_ what I've got; I'm still
not convinced, though doing what I'm told for now) tell me: is it normal
to feel so well?

I have never felt at all unwell but they declared I as was diabetic during
annual check-ups at the surgery. I was warned before this happened that my
triglycerides were ‘on the high side’ so the treatment was more as a
preventative measure. I had pills for diabetes and high blood pressure and
also further reviewed my diet and made some changes to content and
quantity. To cut a long story short, I am not on any of that treatment now,
just ‘statins as they are ‘flavour of the decade’ I think. I have lost some
weight and despite cancer of the prostate intervening, I still feel fine in
almost all respects. You really don’t want to know about the radio therapy
side effects on bladder and bowels do you!

--
Toddle Pip, Mike McMillan

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-06-30 15:00:44 UTC

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 14:36:08, Mike McMillan
[]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Can other diabetic UMRAts (assuming that _is_ what I've got; I'm still
not convinced, though doing what I'm told for now) tell me: is it normal
to feel so well?

Is that the same as "blood sugar"? That seems to have been what caused
the panic in my case. Mine seems to be all over the place - (twice a
day) 20.2, >33.3, 15.5, 17.0, 13.2, 21.8, 17.x, 21.0, 24.0, 15.8, 27.6.
(I think the >33.3 one - overrange - I did something wrong.)

Post by Mike McMillan
preventative measure. I had pills for diabetes and high blood pressure and

(They put me on a pill the first couple of days then switched me to the
insulin - a slow one called Lantus, then they added a fast one called
NovoRapid.)

Post by Mike McMillan
also further reviewed my diet and made some changes to content and
quantity. To cut a long story short, I am not on any of that treatment now,
just ‘statins as they are ‘flavour of the decade’ I think. I have lost

Ah, so there is hope I may get off it! That would be nice - not that
it's a burden or any adverse effects (so far anyway), but it's a faff.

Post by Mike McMillan
some
weight and despite cancer of the prostate intervening, I still feel fine in

I lost some - I'd been 100 kg for decades, then over the last six months
it dropped steadily to 83-86, and seems to have stopped there. I hadn't
been worried - pleased if anything; 8x is still more than I should be
(7x, I think) for my height.

Post by Mike McMillan
almost all respects. You really don’t want to know about the radio therapy
side effects on bladder and bowels do you!

Probably not!

Thanks for replying. Still feeling good.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Advertising is legalized lying. - H.G. Wells

Jenny M Benson

2021-06-30 14:49:13 UTC

I wouldn't have known I had anything else wrong (was already being
treated for low thyroid and high BP) when a routine blood test showed
high blood sugar levels. I was prescribed tablets, which I have taken
ever since - about 20 years now. I am surprised you were put straight
on to insulin - suggests your levels were very high. There was an
attempt to get me on insulin a few years ago, but I couldn't face it.
Since then I have managed to lose some weight and my levels are better
than they were, but still too high. I am NOT good about my diet really
but am still trying to lose weight (the 5 to 2 diet.)

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-06-30 15:10:35 UTC

[]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Can other diabetic UMRAts (assuming that _is_ what I've got; I'm
still not convinced, though doing what I'm told for now) tell me: is
it normal to feel so well?

They did put me on a daily pill, but changed after two days.

Post by Jenny M Benson
attempt to get me on insulin a few years ago, but I couldn't face it.

The procedure I can't actually feel; it must be a very fine needle. And
I've not felt any ill-effects either.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Since then I have managed to lose some weight and my levels are better
than they were, but still too high. I am NOT good about my diet really

I don't think I will be, long term - though I have not touched the
sweets I had open for a few days!

Post by Jenny M Benson
but am still trying to lose weight (the 5 to 2 diet.)

Is that "it's OK after The Archers lunchtime repeat"?

(Sorry. Based on an Eddie Mair joke - that the name "the 1922 committee"
is based on the fact that no-one's sober after twenty past seven.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Advertising is legalized lying. - H.G. Wells

krw

2021-06-30 15:27:13 UTC

Post by Jenny M Benson

Can other diabetic UMRAts (assuming that _is_ what I've got; I'm
still not convinced, though doing what I'm told for now) tell me: is
it normal to feel so well?

They did put me on a daily pill, but changed after two days.

Post by Jenny M Benson
attempt to get me on insulin a few years ago, but I couldn't face it.

The procedure I can't actually feel; it must be a very fine needle. And
I've not felt any ill-effects either.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Since then I have managed to lose some weight and my levels are better
than they were, but still too high. I am NOT good about my diet really

I don't think I will be, long term - though I have not touched the
sweets I had open for a few days!

Post by Jenny M Benson
but am still trying to lose weight (the 5 to 2 diet.)

Is that "it's OK after The Archers lunchtime repeat"?
(Sorry. Based on an Eddie Mair joke - that the name "the 1922 committee"
is based on the fact that no-one's sober after twenty past seven.)

Having read your blood test results I can see why they have responded as
indicated. After nearly 20 years sliding downwards on ever increasing
doses of tablets I transferred to insulin about a year ago.

Readings during the day are heavily influenced by food consumption - but
the sudden weight loss over the last six months is entirely typical of
diabetes. You will not have noticed but you will have been consuming
more fluids to cope.

Whilst on tablets after the first few months I did not test and the long
term sugar tests use a different scale to finger pricks. After I was
initially diagnosed and the sugar levels improved I was able to explain
the previous year or so when I would regularly have "brain fog" and eat
a Mars bar because my sugar levels must be low today! How to get it
wrong in one easy lesson - but I did not feel ill. My sugar readings
were 15 when I was first diagnosed - between 4 and 7 is the desired
level. Also when I was diagnosed the over 60s were allowed to go up to
10 - no such generosity these days!

Now on insulin my morning test before food and a daily insulin jab ought
to be under 7. Sometimes it is. Over the last 12 months the dose has
grown and went up 25% after the first covid vaccine. I suspect they
will move me to at least 2 jabs a day when I get my annual review. And
rarely do I actually feel much wrong with me (well not for that reason).

I often feel the needle and the insulin in the part of the body where I
inject - at this time of year wearing in shorts I go for the legs,
otherwise the lower waist area. As many different places as possible.

Finger pricks - tend to do either side of the 3/4/5 finger so that
nowhere gets jabbed too often - I was always told to avoid the middle of
the finger to avoid killing nerves but on my recent hospital visit
obviously the nurse did not know that.

And take care.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-06-30 18:08:18 UTC

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 16:27:13, krw <***@whitnet.uk> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]

Post by krw
Having read your blood test results I can see why they have responded
as indicated. After nearly 20 years sliding downwards on ever
increasing doses of tablets I transferred to insulin about a year ago.

Just did my pre-meal (evening) one, and it's 13.1.

Post by krw
Readings during the day are heavily influenced by food consumption -

Ah, interesting. I eat little - does that push them up or down? Or is it
only foods high in sugar?

Post by krw
but the sudden weight loss over the last six months is entirely typical

Right. Seems to have stopped falling, though.

Post by krw
of diabetes. You will not have noticed but you will have been
consuming more fluids to cope.

Oh, I had definitely noticed!

Post by krw
Whilst on tablets after the first few months I did not test and the
long term sugar tests use a different scale to finger pricks. After I

Yes - I think there's a ratio of 18 between the two scales.

Post by krw
was initially diagnosed and the sugar levels improved I was able to
explain the previous year or so when I would regularly have "brain fog"
and eat a Mars bar because my sugar levels must be low today! How to
get it wrong in one easy lesson - but I did not feel ill. My sugar

Useful tip. I've gathered the "must have [or be given] sugar" is only
when the insulin is working _too_ well and you're dangerously _low_;
can't see that happening in my case for a while!

Post by krw
readings were 15 when I was first diagnosed - between 4 and 7 is the
desired level. Also when I was diagnosed the over 60s were allowed to
go up to 10 - no such generosity these days!

More of us!

Post by krw
Now on insulin my morning test before food and a daily insulin jab

Interesting; I've been told to have mine at bedtime. (And they've added
a smaller but faster-acting one for before my evening meal.)

Post by krw
ought to be under 7. Sometimes it is. Over the last 12 months the
dose has grown and went up 25% after the first covid vaccine. I
suspect they will move me to at least 2 jabs a day when I get my annual
review. And rarely do I actually feel much wrong with me (well not for
that reason).

I still feel great.

Post by krw
I often feel the needle and the insulin in the part of the body where I
inject - at this time of year wearing in shorts I go for the legs,
otherwise the lower waist area. As many different places as possible.

So far leg only. Might stay so - I may wear shorts all year round.

Post by krw
Finger pricks - tend to do either side of the 3/4/5 finger so that
nowhere gets jabbed too often - I was always told to avoid the middle
of the finger to avoid killing nerves but on my recent hospital visit
obviously the nurse did not know that.

I haven't got into a pattern yet.

Post by krw
And take care.

Thanks.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Wisdom is the ability to cope. - the late (AB of C) Michael Ramsey,
quoted by Stephen Fry (RT 24-30 August 2013)

Serena Blanchflower

2021-06-30 19:25:18 UTC

Just did my pre-meal (evening) one, and it's 13.1.

Post by krw
Readings during the day are heavily influenced by food consumption -

Ah, interesting. I eat little - does that push them up or down? Or is it
only foods high in sugar?

I think any food can affect it but foods high in sugar have the greatest
affect - and sugar levels can slump later on.

<snip>

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Useful tip. I've gathered the "must have [or be given] sugar" is only
when the insulin is working _too_ well and you're dangerously _low_;
can't see that happening in my case for a while!

Don't be too sure! My brother's diabetic and has recently switched to
the kind of insulin sensor which is implanted in his arm, continually
monitoring his blood sugar. On the whole, he likes this, apart from the
fact that it sometimes wakes him up, in the small hours, if it doesn't
approve of his insulin levels.

As it happens, I saw him today and he said that it had been particularly
irritable last night. He'd been out for a substantial pub meal last
night and taken insulin afterwards. Not long after going to bed, it
woke him up complaining that his blood sugar was too low; he took a
couple of jelly babies[1] and went back to sleep. Several hours later,
it went off again - this time, because his blood sugar was too high;
presumably, his digestion has worked its way through his supper.

If you're taking insulin, there's always the chance that you'll find
you've taken rather more than was needed for what you've eaten, or that
you've taken it at the wrong time for your digestion.

[1] From what I gather, these are the preferred sugar delivery
mechanism for quite a few insulin-dependent diabetics.

--
Best wishes, Serena
Q. How do witches tell the time?
A. With a witch-watch!

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-06-30 21:10:44 UTC

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 20:25:18, Serena Blanchflower
[]

Post by krw
Readings during the day are heavily influenced by food consumption -

Ah, interesting. I eat little - does that push them up or down? Or
is it only foods high in sugar?

I think any food can affect it but foods high in sugar have the

Upwards, I presume.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
greatest affect - and sugar levels can slump later on.

Understood, thanks.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
<snip>

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Useful tip. I've gathered the "must have [or be given] sugar" is
only when the insulin is working _too_ well and you're dangerously
_low_; can't see that happening in my case for a while!

Don't be too sure! My brother's diabetic and has recently switched to
the kind of insulin sensor which is implanted in his arm, continually

Aw, I'd miss the chatty little device! (But it _would_ be more
convenient. And continuous rather than just twice a day.)
[]

Post by Serena Blanchflower
particularly irritable last night. He'd been out for a substantial pub
meal last night and taken insulin afterwards. Not long after going to
bed, it woke him up complaining that his blood sugar was too low; he
took a couple of jelly babies[1] and went back to sleep. Several hours
later, it went off again - this time, because his blood sugar was too
high; presumably, his digestion has worked its way through his supper.
If you're taking insulin, there's always the chance that you'll find
you've taken rather more than was needed for what you've eaten, or that
you've taken it at the wrong time for your digestion.

Mine's supposed to be taken _before_ I eat (the fast one) and at bedtime
(the slow one). [I haven't told Dr. Laura that "bedtime" tends to be
after 3 a. m. at the moment - not that I'm trying to conceal the fact or
anything, it just hasn't come up.]

Post by Serena Blanchflower
[1] From what I gather, these are the preferred sugar delivery
mechanism for quite a few insulin-dependent diabetics.

They're explicitly mentioned in a leaflet I've been given! Apparently 5
jelly babies provides 15 to 20g carbohydrate.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

aibohphobia, n., The fear of palindromes.

Serena Blanchflower

2021-07-01 10:07:36 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 20:25:18, Serena Blanchflower
[]

Post by krw
Readings during the day are heavily influenced by food consumption -

Ah, interesting. I eat little - does that push them up or down? Or
is it only foods high in sugar?

I think any food can affect it but foods high in sugar have the

Upwards, I presume.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
greatest affect - and sugar levels can slump later on.

Understood, thanks.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
<snip>

Useful tip. I've gathered the "must have [or be given] sugar" is
only when the insulin is working _too_ well and you're dangerously
_low_; can't see that happening in my case for a while!

Don't be too sure! My brother's diabetic and has recently switched to
the kind of insulin sensor which is implanted in his arm, continually

Aw, I'd miss the chatty little device! (But it _would_ be more
convenient. And continuous rather than just twice a day.)
[]

Post by Serena Blanchflower
particularly irritable last night. He'd been out for a substantial
pub meal last night and taken insulin afterwards. Not long after
going to bed, it woke him up complaining that his blood sugar was too
low; he took a couple of jelly babies[1] and went back to sleep.
Several hours later, it went off again - this time, because his blood
sugar was too high; presumably, his digestion has worked its way
through his supper.
If you're taking insulin, there's always the chance that you'll find
you've taken rather more than was needed for what you've eaten, or
that you've taken it at the wrong time for your digestion.

You seem to be on a very different regime from bro's (and, for that
matter, from any other diabetic I've come across). Before bro was given
his new toy, he had to check his blood sugars before meals, and work out
how much insulin he needed to take.

What have you been told about driving? There are specific rules for
insulin dependent diabetics. I know bro has to check his sugar levels
before driving and, if they're below a certain level, he isn't allowed
to drive. If he's driving long distances, he then has to check his
levels at regular intervals (IIRC, every couple of hours), to make sure
he's safe to drive.

--
Best wishes, Serena
Q. What do you get if you cross a hen with a bedside clock?
A. An alarm cluck!

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-07-01 11:41:40 UTC

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 at 11:07:36, Serena Blanchflower
[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Mine's supposed to be taken _before_ I eat (the fast one) and at
bedtime (the slow one). [I haven't told Dr. Laura that "bedtime"
tends to be after 3 a. m. at the moment - not that I'm trying to
conceal the fact or anything, it just hasn't come up.]

I think It's very early days for me, and they're still playing with what
does what (may change after my pancreas scan on Saturday). Your mention
of meals plural also: I was asked and answered that I really only have
one meal a day, and maybe they accorded to that.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
What have you been told about driving? There are specific rules for
insulin dependent diabetics. I know bro has to check his sugar levels
before driving and, if they're below a certain level, he isn't allowed
to drive. If he's driving long distances, he then has to check his
levels at regular intervals (IIRC, every couple of hours), to make sure
he's safe to drive.

Little verbally; the leaflet I've been given, though it seems to be
mainly about hypo attacks, says similar - keep glucose treatments in the
car, check levels before driving and every 2 hours if a long journey,
should be more than 5 mmol/L to drive (doesn't look like will be a
problem anytime soon for me: 17.0 this morning).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur". ("Anything is more impressive if
you say it in Latin")

krw

2021-07-01 12:27:40 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 at 11:07:36, Serena Blanchflower
[]

That is not a good regime for a diabetic. Three small meals a day keeps
sugar levels more constant.

It took me three months initially to get the slow acting daily dose
right - I prefer mornings but was offered evenings - which worked until
I had the first covid jab. I then had to increase the daily dosage
again but now seem to be at the right level.

You do have to tell DVLA - legal requirement.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

krw

2021-07-01 12:24:49 UTC

There are specific rules for insulin dependent diabetics. I know bro
has to check his sugar levels before driving and, if they're below a
certain level, he isn't allowed to drive. If he's driving long
distances, he then has to check his levels at regular intervals (IIRC,
every couple of hours), to make sure he's safe to drive.

I forgot to mention that. I have notified DVLA and it is duly noted.
You right about the testing routine as well - but type 2 cannot go too
low on sugar unless we over do the insulin.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-07-01 12:59:10 UTC

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 at 13:24:49, krw <***@whitnet.uk> wrote (my responses
usually follow points raised):
[]

Post by krw
I forgot to mention that. I have notified DVLA and it is duly noted.
You right about the testing routine as well - but type 2 cannot go too
low on sugar unless we over do the insulin.

Did you find your insurance premium went up? (I mean rocketed; if it
went up by a small amount, it'd be hard to tell.)

I take it I'm type 2.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

krw

2021-07-01 13:21:55 UTC

I forgot to mention that. I have notified DVLA and it is duly noted.
You right about the testing routine as well - but type 2 cannot go too
low on sugar unless we over do the insulin.

Did you find your insurance premium went up? (I mean rocketed; if it
went up by a small amount, it'd be hard to tell.)
I take it I'm type 2.

No change on the insurance premium. Nor should there be as I was more
dangerous before I was on inuslin, so the risks for the insurer are
lower than before.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2021-07-01 13:44:47 UTC

Post by krw

I forgot to mention that. I have notified DVLA and it is duly
noted. You right about the testing routine as well - but type 2
cannot go too low on sugar unless we over do the insulin.

Did you find your insurance premium went up? (I mean rocketed; if it
went up by a small amount, it'd be hard to tell.)
I take it I'm type 2.

No change on the insurance premium. Nor should there be as I was more
dangerous before I was on inuslin, so the risks for the insurer are
lower than before.

Hadn't thought of it that way! Wouldn't put it past them to put it up
though, just because they can.

I've just looked, and found (https://www.gov.uk/diabetes-driving):
You need to tell DVLA if:

your insulin treatment lasts (or will last) over 3 months

which gives me some hope - in that if there are enough people for whom
it lasts less than that for DVLA to actually mention that, there's hope
for me. (Not that I'll lose all hope if it does, but it _is_ a faff
which of course I'd rather be rid of.)

krw

2021-07-01 13:51:46 UTC

I forgot to mention that. I have notified DVLA and it is duly
noted. You right about the testing routine as well - but type 2
cannot go too low on sugar unless we over do the insulin.

Did you find your insurance premium went up? (I mean rocketed; if it
went up by a small amount, it'd be hard to tell.)
I take it I'm type 2.

No change on the insurance premium. Nor should there be as I was more
dangerous before I was on inuslin, so the risks for the insurer are
lower than before.

Hadn't thought of it that way! Wouldn't put it past them to put it up
though, just because they can.
your insulin treatment lasts (or will last) over 3 months
which gives me some hope - in that if there are enough people for whom
it lasts less than that for DVLA to actually mention that, there's hope
for me. (Not that I'll lose all hope if it does, but it _is_ a faff
which of course I'd rather be rid of.)

Hate to be negative but my personal experience was that it took 3 months
to get a stable insulin dose and it is thereafter a one-way movement.
The odd exceptions will be the formerly obese (and I am sure you were
not) who lose a lot of weight, change their diet and find that even a
modest insulin dose sends their sugar low.

The only time I have had low sugar was a couple of weeks ago before my
operation when:
a) I had had breakfast before 7am - well over 90 minutes earlier than usual
b) Had 90% of my standard insulin dose
When it reached 3.9 they gave me liquid sugar to get the reading back up
before the operation commenced.

Naturally the anaethetist then decided that no general anasthetic was
needed so I need not have taken the precautions above!

My spilling chuckler assures me those spellings are correct.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Min

2021-07-01 23:44:15 UTC

Post by krw