Brexit ministers out of touch with reality

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to patrol
fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a government
department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three times
the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced after
Brexit.

Excellent news then.

abelard

2019-08-10 08:17:54 UTC

so now you're claiming the eussr are pirates with no regard for the
law
so as an appeaser, you want to submit to them....

--
www.abelard.org

g***@googlemail.com

2019-08-10 12:27:05 UTC

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all ports.

Teresa May and Phillip Hammond, if not immune, should be prosecuted for malfeasance in public office.

JNugent

2019-08-10 14:59:03 UTC

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

g***@googlemail.com

2019-08-11 11:16:29 UTC

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if necessary.

JNugent

2019-08-11 11:45:05 UTC

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

You don't even get that at the borders between EU countries and
Switzerland. Lorries are forced to queue before entering mountain passes
and tunnels at an orderly rate, though (in order to maintain the
required gaps between vehicles).

The short Channel crossing has plenty of security and queuing space
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for space
than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike conditions.

Pamela

2019-08-11 17:19:00 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three
times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced
after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all
ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time required
for border checks?

It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be plenty
of queuing all right.

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for space
than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike conditions.

Joe

2019-08-11 17:47:59 UTC

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 18:19:00 +0100

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space
three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be
enforced after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at
all ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if
necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time
required for border checks?
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be
plenty of queuing all right.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/08/11/no-deal-lorry-mayhem-dover-calais-cest-la-bullsh-replies-french/

--
Joe

JNugent

2019-08-11 23:27:41 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol 'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space three
times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be enforced
after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all
ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time required
for border checks?

Nothing.

Hull might have the same facilities for all that I know. But I've never
been there so can't say. The Seaforth Docks (north end of Liverpool) is
another port facility which I know has plentiful waiting facilities.

Post by Pamela
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be plenty
of queuing all right.

Everybody has to queue for ships. It's part of the deal. Same with the
Shuttle trains.

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for space
than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike conditions.

Pamela

2019-08-12 17:59:03 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space
three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be
enforced after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all
ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time
required for border checks?

Nothing.
Hull might have the same facilities for all that I know. But I've never
been there so can't say. The Seaforth Docks (north end of Liverpool) is
another port facility which I know has plentiful waiting facilities.

What use are those docks for cross channel trade, which is what you were
talking about?

Post by Pamela
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be
plenty of queuing all right.

Everybody has to queue for ships. It's part of the deal. Same with the
Shuttle trains.

The question is how much very longer the waiting times will be after
Brexit.

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for space
than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike
conditions.

JNugent

2019-08-12 19:16:59 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity to
patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo from a
government department mistakenly emailed to the BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space
three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be
enforced after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at all
ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time
required for border checks?

Nothing.
Hull might have the same facilities for all that I know. But I've never
been there so can't say. The Seaforth Docks (north end of Liverpool) is
another port facility which I know has plentiful waiting facilities.

What use are those docks for cross channel trade, which is what you were
talking about?

Dover is an almost-exclusively cross-Channel port. That is true. It also
happens to be the port with which I am (these days) most familiar. But
other ports exist, notably Liverpool (with which I am still reasonably
familiar). Not all of the UK's trade is conducted directly across the
English Channel. Some comes internationally and even inter-continentally
to Liverpool, Southampton and Hull. Maybe to other mainland ports as
well. But I can't answer as to the availability of extensive queuing
facilities in most of those because I don't know them well enough.

Post by Pamela
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be
plenty of queuing all right.

Everybody has to queue for ships. It's part of the deal. Same with the
Shuttle trains.

The question is how much very longer the waiting times will be after
Brexit.

Have you read the recent remarks of the boss of the Port of Calais?

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for space
than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike
conditions.

Pamela

2019-08-12 20:40:18 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity
to patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo
from a government department mistakenly emailed to the
BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space
three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food
and Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be
enforced after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at
all ports.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at Dover even when we're in a Customs
union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with space and
facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days, if
necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time
required for border checks?

Nothing. Hull might have the same facilities for all that I know. But
I've never been there so can't say. The Seaforth Docks (north end of
Liverpool) is another port facility which I know has plentiful waiting
facilities.

What use are those docks for cross channel trade, which is what you
were talking about?

The cross Channel trade is exclusvely cross Channel. Surely you weren't
talking about Liverpool or Hull about when you wrote this.

"The short Channel crossing has plenty of security and queuing space"

Post by Pamela
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be
plenty of queuing all right.

Everybody has to queue for ships. It's part of the deal. Same with the
Shuttle trains.

The question is how much very longer the waiting times will be after
Brexit.

Have you read the recent remarks of the boss of the Port of Calais?

France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for
space than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike
conditions.

JNugent

2019-08-12 23:22:43 UTC

Post by Pamela
"Brexit: Email slip-up reveals no-deal fishing patrol
'uncertainty'"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
There is "a lot of uncertainty" about the UK's capacity
to patrol fishing waters after a no-deal Brexit, a memo
from a government department mistakenly emailed to the
BBC says.
The note says there are just 12 ships "to monitor a space
three times the size of the surface area of the UK".
The memo from the Department for the Environment, Food
and Rural Affairs was discussing media stories.
But ministers said they are confident security will be
enforced after Brexit.

The day after the vote, I thought "we should build more maritime
patrol craft". We should have built huge Customs facilities at
***all ports***.

What makes you say we haven't got them?

Witnessing the traffic queues at ***Dover*** even when we're in a
Customs union with the continent. I'm talking of lorry parks with
space and facilities to accommodate trucks and drivers for days,
if necessary.

What does the shortness of the crossing have to do with the time
required for border checks?

Nothing. Hull might have the same facilities for all that I know. But
I've never been there so can't say. The Seaforth Docks (north end of
Liverpool) is another port facility which I know has plentiful waiting
facilities.

What use are those docks for cross channel trade, which is what you
were talking about?

The cross Channel trade is exclusvely cross Channel. Surely you weren't
talking about Liverpool or Hull about when you wrote this.
"The short Channel crossing has plenty of security and queuing space"

I was not limiting my remarks overall to the Channel ports.

I responded to a post about "all ports" (see my asterisked emphasis some
way above) and a specfic one about Dover (ditto). I had already asked
the PP how he knew (if he knew) that there were no facilities at "all
ports".

Post by Pamela
It may not be as congested as Checkpoint Charlie but there will be
plenty of queuing all right.

Everybody has to queue for ships. It's part of the deal. Same with the
Shuttle trains.

The question is how much very longer the waiting times will be after
Brexit.

Have you read the recent remarks of the boss of the Port of Calais?

France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know. And for ocean-going traffic, much of that is already
to and from locations which are not in the EU.

Post by JNugent
(especially at Dunkirk and Calais, which are less pressured for
space than Dover), though none of it is meant to cope with strike
conditions.

Ian Jackson

2019-08-13 07:19:24 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the Belgium-Holland
border there was even a 'village' where the truckers had to divert to to
have their paperwork dealt with by customs agents. Oh happy days!

--
Ian

Pamela

2019-08-13 09:32:01 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were appalling.
You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably meant you needed to
arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks, adding to the congestion, until
it departed. It was a miserable experience every time.

JNugent

2019-08-13 09:37:02 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

You *still* have to book specific ferries at specific times. That has
never changed. You take your chances - on availability and on "rack
rate" prices - if you just turn up unannounced.

You must know that.

Pamela

2019-08-13 13:29:23 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the truckers
had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by customs agents.
Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably meant
you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks, adding to the
congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable experience every
time.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there is more
traffic the queues will be greater.

JNugent

2019-08-13 15:35:33 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the truckers
had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by customs agents.
Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably meant
you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks, adding to the
congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable experience every
time.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there is more
traffic the queues will be greater.

At Dover (and at its opposite number ports in France and Belgium), there
are queues every day, 24/7, right now, and always have been. That's the
nature of travelling by ship and being marshalled by security staff. And
just to be clear, there are queues at Cheriton for the Channel tunnel as
well.

What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

Pamela

2019-08-13 20:09:30 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the truckers
had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by customs
agents. Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably
meant you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks,
adding to the congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable
experience every time.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there is
more traffic the queues will be greater.

At Dover (and at its opposite number ports in France and Belgium), there
are queues every day, 24/7, right now, and always have been. That's the
nature of travelling by ship and being marshalled by security staff. And
just to be clear, there are queues at Cheriton for the Channel tunnel as
well.
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

Ian Jackson

2019-08-13 20:52:24 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the truckers
had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by customs
agents. Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably
meant you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks,
adding to the congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable
experience every time.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there is
more traffic the queues will be greater.

At Dover (and at its opposite number ports in France and Belgium), there
are queues every day, 24/7, right now, and always have been. That's the
nature of travelling by ship and being marshalled by security staff. And
just to be clear, there are queues at Cheriton for the Channel tunnel as
well.
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

Ciaran the Euro Courier certainly thinks it will. But hell, what does HE
know about such things!
http://tinyurl.com/y69rr8xc

--
Ian

Andy Walker

2019-08-13 22:51:14 UTC

Post by JNugent
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

There's no particularly compelling reason why it should. The
usual process with things like customs checks is that most cars/lorries
are waved through and a proportion are checked more carefully. You
can adjust the average delay by adjusting the proportion.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.

Pamela

2019-08-15 10:30:25 UTC

Post by JNugent
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

Honestly Andy, get real. Checks after Brexit are not going to be the same as
the before.

Andy Walker

2019-08-15 19:11:07 UTC

On 15/08/2019 11:30, Pamela wrote:
[To JN:]

Post by Pamela
The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

Honestly Andy, get real. Checks after Brexit are not going to be the same as
the before.

No doubt. But not the checks that normally cause delays at the
port -- eg, searching the lorry for illegal goods or immigrants, and
checking that the contents match the paperwork. Others have pointed
out that the paperwork itself is normally handled elsewhere, not on
arrival at the port. If there are minor changes in the procedures,
with corresponding minor changes in delays, then, as above, that can
be handled by waving [or, as some correspondents are quaintly putting
is, "waiving"] through more or fewer of the lorries.

Of course, it is always possible that either the authorities
or other groups [ferry operators, drivers, fishermen, ...] will take
steps to block or delay operations -- the French are particularly
good at protesting in ingenious ways -- but that doesn't seem to be
the sort of delay you are talking about. After all, France is not
an enemy of the UK. [Nor, for that matter, is RoI.] If that changes,
then all bets are off, but it seems a remote possibility ATM.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.

Pamela

2019-08-15 19:17:48 UTC

Post by Andy Walker
[To JN:]

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claiming it won't?

There's no particularly compelling reason why it should. The
usual process with things like customs checks is that most
cars/lorries are waved through and a proportion are checked more
carefully. You can adjust the average delay by adjusting the
proportion.

Honestly Andy, get real. Checks after Brexit are not going to be the
same as the before.

No doubt. But not the checks that normally cause delays at the
port -- eg, searching the lorry for illegal goods or immigrants, and
checking that the contents match the paperwork. Others have pointed
out that the paperwork itself is normally handled elsewhere, not on
arrival at the port. If there are minor changes in the procedures,
with corresponding minor changes in delays, then, as above, that can
be handled by waving [or, as some correspondents are quaintly putting
is, "waiving"] through more or fewer of the lorries.
Of course, it is always possible that either the authorities
or other groups [ferry operators, drivers, fishermen, ...] will take
steps to block or delay operations -- the French are particularly
good at protesting in ingenious ways -- but that doesn't seem to be
the sort of delay you are talking about. After all, France is not
an enemy of the UK. [Nor, for that matter, is RoI.] If that changes,
then all bets are off, but it seems a remote possibility ATM.

Andy. you do write some addled nonsense and that is pretty poor even by your
already low standard.

By your reckoning the UK govt has wasted time and money building all the
extra queing space. You should have told them you knew the magic answer
before they started.

Andy Walker

2019-08-16 13:20:27 UTC

On 15/08/2019 20:17, Pamela wrote:
[...]

Post by Pamela
Honestly Andy, get real. Checks after Brexit are not going to be the
same as the before.

Andy. you do write some addled nonsense and that is pretty poor even by your
already low standard.

We can have a debate or an abusefest. Your choice, but if it's
the latter, you will be doing so on your own.

Post by Pamela
By your reckoning the UK govt has wasted time and money building all the
extra queing space. You should have told them you knew the magic answer
before they started.

That's not my reckoning. At that time, there seemed to be fears
that in the event of no deal, the ferries and other trade would stop dead
at the moment of Brexit, until some agreement had been sorted out. It
made sense to be prepared, however inadequately, for that. That's quite
different from on-going delays allegedly to be caused by changes in the
paperwork and other checks, which are what I was addressing, and what
you too seemed to be addressing.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.

Pamela

2019-08-17 11:54:53 UTC

Post by Andy Walker
[...]

Post by Pamela
Honestly Andy, get real. Checks after Brexit are not going to be the
same as the before.

Andy. you do write some addled nonsense and that is pretty poor even by
your already low standard.

We can have a debate or an abusefest. Your choice, but if it's
the latter, you will be doing so on your own.

Post by Pamela
By your reckoning the UK govt has wasted time and money building all
the extra queing space. You should have told them you knew the magic
answer before they started.

That's not my reckoning. At that time, there seemed to be fears
that in the event of no deal, the ferries and other trade would stop
dead at the moment of Brexit, until some agreement had been sorted out.
It made sense to be prepared, however inadequately, for that. That's
quite different from on-going delays allegedly to be caused by changes
in the paperwork and other checks, which are what I was addressing, and
what you too seemed to be addressing.

You wrote addled nonsense and are now referring to your addled nonsense but
that doesn't make it any less addled or nonsensical.

JNugent

2019-08-14 16:45:41 UTC

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the Common
Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the truckers
had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by customs
agents. Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably
meant you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks,
adding to the congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable
experience every time.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there is
more traffic the queues will be greater.

At Dover (and at its opposite number ports in France and Belgium), there
are queues every day, 24/7, right now, and always have been. That's the
nature of travelling by ship and being marshalled by security staff. And
just to be clear, there are queues at Cheriton for the Channel tunnel as
well.
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claining it won't?

I have no information to suggest a change in either direction (though I
wouldn't complain if there were further and more intensive checks on the
ciontents of lorries, which might be desirable in its own right).

Some people closer to the situation than you or I suggest that there is
no cause for concern.

Pamela

2019-08-15 10:41:26 UTC

On 08:19 13 Aug 2019, Ian Jackson

Post by Pamela
France is prepared for Brexit but are the corresponding UK ports?

He doesn't reckon there'll be any problems. We used to have
cross-Channel traffic (and lots of it) before we joined the
Common Market, you know.

And the queues of lorries was a marvel to behold! On the
Belgium-Holland border there was even a 'village' where the
truckers had to divert to to have their paperwork dealt with by
customs agents. Oh happy days!

In those days the queues for vehicles to cross the Channel were
appalling. You had to book on a particular ferry which inevitably
meant you needed to arrive early and wait in forlorn car parks,
adding to the congestion, until it departed. It was a miserable
experience every time.

You *still* have to book specific ferries at specific times. That
has never changed. You take your chances - on availability and on
"rack rate" prices - if you just turn up unannounced.
You must know that.

Let me spell it out .... queues are almost inevitable and when there
is more traffic the queues will be greater.

At Dover (and at its opposite number ports in France and Belgium),
there are queues every day, 24/7, right now, and always have been.
That's the nature of travelling by ship and being marshalled by
security staff. And just to be clear, there are queues at Cheriton for
the Channel tunnel as well.
What reason do you have to take the view that volumes of traffic will
increase after the UK leaves the EU?

The delay per lorry will increase. Or are you claiming it won't?

I have no information to suggest a change in either direction (though I
wouldn't complain if there were further and more intensive checks on the
contents of lorries, which might be desirable in its own right).

You parade your ignorance like a virtue. Those who do have such information
believe there will be greater delays.

Post by JNugent
Some people closer to the situation than you or I suggest that there is
no cause for concern.

Ideologically driven Brexiteers have indeed given many such glib assurances
but those who are tasked with planning for the forthcoming situation see it
differently.

JNugent

2019-08-15 12:02:36 UTC

On 08:19 13 Aug 2019, Ian Jackson