Discussion:
Heating oil tank (green plastic, 2000 litres) sprang a leak yesterday
(too old to reply)
MM
2015-09-24 07:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).

There is no fire station in the small town where I live in South
Lincs, so I called the Boston station and caught the resident fire
officer just as he was about to leave. He said straightway he'd send a
fire engine, as they had better sealing putty than the potter's clay.
They use it on lorry tanks. Anyway, they arrived 20 minutes later -
five blokes! Very helpful. Within just ten minutes the guy who seemed
to have done it before had sealed it with the stuff they use, which is
called Dammit (I've since looked it up on the internet). They covered
the Dammit with several layers of what looked like black duct tape.

In the interim I called my heating engineer, who is coming first thing
this morning with temporary bund tanks to pump out my tank into. I'll
have to get a new tank, but I don't know whether to get a single-skin
or a bund tank. The fire officer thought bund tanks were mandatory
now, but I still see firms on the internet selling single-skin ones,
which my current one is.

Thing is, I took delivery of heating oil yesterday mid-morning and it
filled the tank brimfull, so probably the extra pressure of 2000
litres pressing on the tank was enough for it to give way. The tank
was manufactured in 2004. I'm just hoping the repair will last until
tomorrow morning, but if it bursts open again, the fire officer said
just ring 999 as my details will now be on the system already.

Update: I didn't sleep much, so went out to check the repair during
the night. It lasted about 6 hours completely dry, but at about 01:30
am this morning I noticed it was weeping slightly. At 04:30 am it was
weeping more, and now, at 08:00 am it is dripping ~slightly~ (about a
drip every 3 seconds). I gathered the leakage in a plastic bowl, which
has accumulated about 2 litres overnight, though some of that may well
be rainwater as it6's been raining off and on throughout the night.

The other thing was, a neighbour across the road two or three doors
down had exactly the same thing happen to him, according to my
immediate neighbour. He had his tank filled right up and it developed
a leak soon afterwards! These tanks are now over 11 years old on the
estate. They are, I see from the internet, guaranteed for ten years,
but I had assumed they last forever.

Questions:

1. What other course of action might I have taken?

2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice
the price of single-skin. Howeverm I'm not worried about the cost at
the moment. I just want to get it sorted.

3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?

4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new one?
My friendly heating engineer will do all the work, but I'm asking what
points to remember? How heavy are these plastic tanks when empty?

The tank is round cross-section, about 1m diameter and 2m long.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-24 07:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
In the interim I called my heating engineer, who is coming first thing
this morning with temporary bund tanks to pump out my tank into. I'll
have to get a new tank, but I don't know whether to get a single-skin or
a bund tank. The fire officer thought bund tanks were mandatory now, but
I still see firms on the internet selling single-skin ones, which my
current one is.
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund tanks
don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice the
price of single-skin. Howeverm I'm not worried about the cost at the
moment. I just want to get it sorted.
IIRC, single-skin is permissible up to a certain size and at least a
minimum distance from waterways.

If t'were me, it'd be bunded, no question. 2,000 litres of heating oil is
not really what you want spilling all over the garden.

Our neighbours have a scabby old steel tank - and, frankly, it stinks of
oil. I try very hard to ignore it, but if t'were mine, it would've been
replaced by now... I like our gas tank.

I dunno about where you are, but our local builder's merchant have
several oil tanks in their yard, and a catalogue on the counter. You,
surely, know the bloke behind the counter at yours? Ask him what they
tend to sell. Ask your heating engineer what he tends to install, and
what he'd do if it were his.
Post by MM
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
If it hadn't been filled to the brim, might it have split when filled
half way? If not this time, next time?
MM
2015-09-24 16:34:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 07:15:58 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
In the interim I called my heating engineer, who is coming first thing
this morning with temporary bund tanks to pump out my tank into. I'll
have to get a new tank, but I don't know whether to get a single-skin or
a bund tank. The fire officer thought bund tanks were mandatory now, but
I still see firms on the internet selling single-skin ones, which my
current one is.
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund tanks
don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice the
price of single-skin. Howeverm I'm not worried about the cost at the
moment. I just want to get it sorted.
IIRC, single-skin is permissible up to a certain size and at least a
minimum distance from waterways.
If t'were me, it'd be bunded, no question. 2,000 litres of heating oil is
not really what you want spilling all over the garden.
Our neighbours have a scabby old steel tank - and, frankly, it stinks of
oil. I try very hard to ignore it, but if t'were mine, it would've been
replaced by now... I like our gas tank.
I dunno about where you are, but our local builder's merchant have
several oil tanks in their yard, and a catalogue on the counter. You,
surely, know the bloke behind the counter at yours? Ask him what they
tend to sell. Ask your heating engineer what he tends to install, and
what he'd do if it were his.
Post by MM
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
If it hadn't been filled to the brim, might it have split when filled
half way? If not this time, next time?
When the heating engineer this morning had finished setting up the
pump and started pumping out my tank into a temporary one, he went
across the road to check two of the neighbours' tanks. Verdict: Both
are ready to burst any time! One neighbour was expecting 1000 litres
tomorrow, but quickly phoned and cancelled her order.

My heating engineer said the tank had not been installed in accordance
with the regs in force 10 years ago when the 40 properties on the
estate were constructed, as it is too close to combustible material
(wooden fence) and too close to water courses. Engineer said he will
ONLY consider a bunded tank for my replacement, which I fully agree
with. I wouldn't wish this hassle on anyone, even if I sell and move
on in a couple of years.

A friggin' nightmare, I can tell you. But now all is in hand with the
temporary tank containing 1000 litres and I can relax. The leak
stopped dripping as soon as we'd pumped out abound 300 litres, so it
was deffo that brimful delivery I got yesterday morning that triggered
the leak. Thank goodness the fire brigade was so ready to help. He
said I was quite right to contact them, as it was a genuine emergency.
Some people call 999 to report a kettle that won't come to the boil,
he said.

MM
Andrew Mawson
2015-09-24 07:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).
There is no fire station in the small town where I live in South
Lincs, so I called the Boston station and caught the resident fire
officer just as he was about to leave. He said straightway he'd send a
fire engine, as they had better sealing putty than the potter's clay.
They use it on lorry tanks. Anyway, they arrived 20 minutes later -
five blokes! Very helpful. Within just ten minutes the guy who seemed
to have done it before had sealed it with the stuff they use, which is
called Dammit (I've since looked it up on the internet). They covered
the Dammit with several layers of what looked like black duct tape.
In the interim I called my heating engineer, who is coming first thing
this morning with temporary bund tanks to pump out my tank into. I'll
have to get a new tank, but I don't know whether to get a single-skin
or a bund tank. The fire officer thought bund tanks were mandatory
now, but I still see firms on the internet selling single-skin ones,
which my current one is.
Thing is, I took delivery of heating oil yesterday mid-morning and it
filled the tank brimfull, so probably the extra pressure of 2000
litres pressing on the tank was enough for it to give way. The tank
was manufactured in 2004. I'm just hoping the repair will last until
tomorrow morning, but if it bursts open again, the fire officer said
just ring 999 as my details will now be on the system already.
Update: I didn't sleep much, so went out to check the repair during
the night. It lasted about 6 hours completely dry, but at about 01:30
am this morning I noticed it was weeping slightly. At 04:30 am it was
weeping more, and now, at 08:00 am it is dripping ~slightly~ (about a
drip every 3 seconds). I gathered the leakage in a plastic bowl, which
has accumulated about 2 litres overnight, though some of that may well
be rainwater as it6's been raining off and on throughout the night.
The other thing was, a neighbour across the road two or three doors
down had exactly the same thing happen to him, according to my
immediate neighbour. He had his tank filled right up and it developed
a leak soon afterwards! These tanks are now over 11 years old on the
estate. They are, I see from the internet, guaranteed for ten years,
but I had assumed they last forever.
1. What other course of action might I have taken?
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice
the price of single-skin. Howeverm I'm not worried about the cost at
the moment. I just want to get it sorted.
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new one?
My friendly heating engineer will do all the work, but I'm asking what
points to remember? How heavy are these plastic tanks when empty?
The tank is round cross-section, about 1m diameter and 2m long.
MM
ONLY replace it with a bunded tank - the Environment Agency will be after
you if you have a spillage.

I keep a 1000 litre 'IBC' palletised tank for shifting oil from one tank to
another (we have three separate oil central heating systems on the farm)
using an electric imersible pump, so in you instance I'd have been able to
reduce the leaking tank, and given room, transfer the oil into another one.


Andrew
MM
2015-09-24 16:37:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:44:52 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
Post by Andrew Mawson
ONLY replace it with a bunded tank - the Environment Agency will be after
you if you have a spillage.
Absolutely. The heating engineer who arrive promptly pretty much first
thing said he would only consider a bunded tank. Also see my comments
earlier re non-compliance with "building" regs (dunno if it was
building regs, or some other kind of regs, but the installation was
deffo not legal when the poroperties were constructed in 2003/4).
Post by Andrew Mawson
I keep a 1000 litre 'IBC' palletised tank for shifting oil from one tank to
another (we have three separate oil central heating systems on the farm)
using an electric imersible pump, so in you instance I'd have been able to
reduce the leaking tank, and given room, transfer the oil into another one.
Won't apply now in my case, but as a matter of interest, what does a
palletised tank cost? This is exactly what the engineer brought with
him this morning.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-24 17:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Won't apply now in my case, but as a matter of interest, what does a
palletised tank cost?
Bugger all. They're on eBay from less than £20, if you can collect. £70
delivered seems to be the cheapest at a quick glance.
MM
2015-09-24 17:49:08 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:14:22 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Won't apply now in my case, but as a matter of interest, what does a
palletised tank cost?
Bugger all. They're on eBay from less than £20, if you can collect. £70
delivered seems to be the cheapest at a quick glance.
Jeez! That's cheap. I imagined they'd cost a couple of hundred quid or
thereabouts.

MM
MM
2015-09-25 08:57:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:14:22 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Won't apply now in my case, but as a matter of interest, what does a
palletised tank cost?
Bugger all. They're on eBay from less than £20, if you can collect. £70
delivered seems to be the cheapest at a quick glance.
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline? Because we
had the dickens of a job moving the emergency tank to the back garden.
The heating engineer and his young apprentice are strapping lads, but
it took quite an effort. We had to lift the tank high enough to clear
the diving fence to the next property, then we slid it along the top
of the fence, which held up very well. I say "we", but really all I
could do is be a gofer for tools and trestles and support the tank's
balance as best I could. I had a 3x bypass two years ago, so I'm not
about to do any heavy lifting.

I'm thinking of knocking together a support beam on H/D wheels that
will slide down the path. About 6' long beam, height about 6' level
with the top of the fence, with a base that stops the contraption from
tipping over. Then the spare tank could be slid along the fence AND
the beam. Got to be a lot easier - and safer. One misjudgement of the
balance and the tank crashes into the neighbour's back garden. We've
been lucky so far.

How would you have moved it? Any ideas? After all, eventually the
spare tank will have been emptied back into the new main tank and will
have to be lifted back along the fence again.

MM
Andy Burns
2015-09-25 09:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Any ideas?
Given you will soon have a shiny new tank (with presumably at least 10
year guarantee) and now know about soap, dammit and duct tape, and that
your engineer can arrange an emergency tank at a few hours notice, why
would you bother keeping an emergency tank on site?
MM
2015-09-25 18:20:59 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:01:11 +0100, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Any ideas?
Given you will soon have a shiny new tank (with presumably at least 10
year guarantee) and now know about soap, dammit and duct tape, and that
your engineer can arrange an emergency tank at a few hours notice, why
would you bother keeping an emergency tank on site?
Because it's full with a 1000 litres pumped out of my tank until the
new tank is delivered.

MM
Andy Burns
2015-09-25 18:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
why would you bother keeping an emergency tank on site?
Because it's full with a 1000 litres pumped out of my tank until the
new tank is delivered.
I can understand you temporarily having /that/ one in the interim, but
it sounded like you wanted to keep a permanent spare around ...
MM
2015-09-25 22:34:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:30:47 +0100, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
why would you bother keeping an emergency tank on site?
Because it's full with a 1000 litres pumped out of my tank until the
new tank is delivered.
I can understand you temporarily having /that/ one in the interim, but
it sounded like you wanted to keep a permanent spare around ...
Nope. Just curious, that's all.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-25 11:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
JimK
2015-09-25 16:10:29 UTC
Permalink
/Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less. /Q

The 700 litre IBCs are a bit skinnier in one dimension.

Jim K
Huge
2015-09-25 16:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
/Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less. /Q
The 700 litre IBCs are a bit skinnier in one dimension.
Is this ridiculous, confusing, non-standard quoting style yours? If so, please
consider stopping doing it.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Tim Streater
2015-09-25 17:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by JimK
/Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less. /Q
The 700 litre IBCs are a bit skinnier in one dimension.
Is this ridiculous, confusing, non-standard quoting style yours? If so, please
consider stopping doing it.
Good luck with that. The selfish cunt is already KFed here for that
reason.
--
"I love the way that Microsoft follows standards.
In much the same manner as fish follow migrating caribou."
- Paul Tomblin, ASR
Huge
2015-09-25 18:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Huge
Post by JimK
/Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less. /Q
The 700 litre IBCs are a bit skinnier in one dimension.
Is this ridiculous, confusing, non-standard quoting style yours? If so, please
consider stopping doing it.
Good luck with that. The selfish cunt is already KFed here for that
reason.
As he will be here, shortly, I suspect.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
MM
2015-09-25 18:21:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:11:12 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
Pallets can be removed during transport, then fitted again, surely?

MM
Adrian
2015-09-25 22:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
Pallets can be removed during transport, then fitted again, surely?
Which'll remove, ooh, about 75mm from the height, nothing from the width
or depth.
MM
2015-09-25 22:39:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 22:13:36 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
Pallets can be removed during transport, then fitted again, surely?
Which'll remove, ooh, about 75mm from the height, nothing from the width
or depth.
I said, are these emergency tanks available *as slimline*? For
example, not 1m x 1m x 1m, but 0.5m x 2m x 1m. That would also hold
1000 litres, but would pass down the side of the house easily. The
pallet would be removed first, then re-attached after siting the tank.
It's just a few screws holding the tank cage to the pallet!

MM
Chris French
2015-09-27 23:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 22:13:36 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
Pallets can be removed during transport, then fitted again, surely?
Which'll remove, ooh, about 75mm from the height, nothing from the width
or depth.
I said, are these emergency tanks available *as slimline*? For
example, not 1m x 1m x 1m, but 0.5m x 2m x 1m. That would also hold
1000 litres, but would pass down the side of the house easily. The
pallet would be removed first, then re-attached after siting the tank.
It's just a few screws holding the tank cage to the pallet!
I'm not aware of slimline 1000L IBC tanks, but you can get them in lower
capacities, which are a different size, though not seen so commonly.

These are the things being talked about:

<http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ibc-container>
--
Chris French
MM
2015-09-28 07:44:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 00:08:06 +0100, Chris French
Post by Chris French
Post by MM
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 22:13:36 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Follow-up question: Are they also available as slimline?
There's a rough clue in the "1,000 litres" and "palletised". They're a
cubic metre, more or less.
Pallets can be removed during transport, then fitted again, surely?
Which'll remove, ooh, about 75mm from the height, nothing from the width
or depth.
I said, are these emergency tanks available *as slimline*? For
example, not 1m x 1m x 1m, but 0.5m x 2m x 1m. That would also hold
1000 litres, but would pass down the side of the house easily. The
pallet would be removed first, then re-attached after siting the tank.
It's just a few screws holding the tank cage to the pallet!
I'm not aware of slimline 1000L IBC tanks, but you can get them in lower
capacities, which are a different size, though not seen so commonly.
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ibc-container>
Thanks for the link. I cannot believe how incredibly cheap these IBC
containers are. How reliable ar they? I'm a bit concerned that I've
got a 1000 litres of heating oil sitting in an IBC on the back lawn
till the engineer installs the new tank.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-28 07:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Chris French
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/ibc-container>
Thanks for the link. I cannot believe how incredibly cheap these IBC
containers are. How reliable ar they? I'm a bit concerned that I've got
a 1000 litres of heating oil sitting in an IBC on the back lawn till the
engineer installs the new tank.
They're used commercially for delivering and storing new hydraulic oil
and various chemicals.

Andy Burns
2015-09-24 17:22:21 UTC
Permalink
as a matter of interest, what does a palletised tank cost?
Try tanksandtubs.co.uk, not too far from you ...
MM
2015-09-24 17:51:27 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 18:22:21 +0100, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
as a matter of interest, what does a palletised tank cost?
Try tanksandtubs.co.uk, not too far from you ...
Yeah, I'll take a look. I'm truly knackered now, having been up half
the night, calling the fire brigade, waiting for the heating engineer,
getting the pumping out started. It all takes its toll on the old
stress levels, and I'm not so young any more. Getting to the point
when I'd quite seriously consider a care home with everything done for
me. But I could never afford one.

MM
Huge
2015-09-24 08:04:10 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-09-24, MM <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[52 lines snipped]
Post by MM
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice
the price of single-skin.
If you're near any kind of watercourse you MUST have a bunded tank. Otherwise
you can have a single skinned one. We have an (unused) well in our garden,
so we had to have a bunded one. Thinking about it, I'd probably have had one
anyway.

[1 lines snipped]
Post by MM
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new one?
Get a steel one.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 48th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 09:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by MM
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice
the price of single-skin.
If you're near any kind of watercourse you MUST have a bunded tank.
Not just near a water course, "above ground level" triggers the must
as well.
Post by Huge
From: Environment Agency and Department for Environment, Food & Rural
Affairs
First published: 6 May 2015
Part of: Oil storage and Environmental management
Applies to: England and Wales
How to install a new or replacement heating oil container at your home.
This page applies to you if you're installing a new or replacement
heating oil container with a capacity of more than 2,500 litres or in
* above ground level"
<snip>
Post by Huge
Bund
Your container must be bunded (have an outer case that surrounds the
container to catch leaks or spills).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-heating-oil-how-to-store-it
Post by Huge
Post by MM
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new one?
Get a steel one.
That'll quietly rust from the inside at the bottom.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Huge
2015-09-24 09:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Huge
Post by MM
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least
twice
Post by Huge
Post by MM
the price of single-skin.
If you're near any kind of watercourse you MUST have a bunded tank.
Not just near a water course, "above ground level" triggers the must
as well.
Is that a recent change?
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Huge
From: Environment Agency and Department for Environment, Food & Rural
Affairs
First published: 6 May 2015
Hmmm, quite possibly.
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Huge
Part of: Oil storage and Environmental management
Applies to: England and Wales
How to install a new or replacement heating oil container at your home.
This page applies to you if you're installing a new or replacement
heating oil container with a capacity of more than 2,500 litres or in
* above ground level"
<snip>
Post by Huge
Bund
Your container must be bunded (have an outer case that surrounds the
container to catch leaks or spills).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-heating-oil-how-to-store-it
Post by Huge
Post by MM
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new
one?
Post by Huge
Get a steel one.
That'll quietly rust from the inside at the bottom.
I'd still rather have a steel one.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 48th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Michael Chare
2015-09-24 12:06:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Huge
Post by MM
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new
one?
Post by Huge
Get a steel one.
That'll quietly rust from the inside at the bottom.
I'd still rather have a steel one.
My neighbour had a steel one that eventually leaked. He replaced it with
an expensive bunded one.

He and later is wife died. Someone bought the house, demolished it and
built a new one. I coveted the tank, however that was the only thing
that the developed kept.

I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base. If buying a new one which can be unbunded up to 2500
litres (IIRC and away from water courses) I would suggest getting one
from a well known brand.

I bought a new steel tank 30 years ago when I moved to my present house.
I painted it with Micaceous Oxide paint.
--
Michael Chare
MM
2015-09-24 16:45:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:06:43 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base.
My heating engineer said the current concrete platform will have to be
extended as it sites the tank too close to combustible material. But
he's going to do the whole job for me. I've had him many times to
service the boiler so I don't expect to get ripped off. Plus, he
services most of the other neighbours' tanks on the estate, so he does
have a reputation to maintain (unlike VW it seems!)

MM
Michael Chare
2015-09-24 17:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:06:43 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base.
My heating engineer said the current concrete platform will have to be
extended as it sites the tank too close to combustible material. But
he's going to do the whole job for me. I've had him many times to
service the boiler so I don't expect to get ripped off. Plus, he
services most of the other neighbours' tanks on the estate, so he does
have a reputation to maintain (unlike VW it seems!)
MM
Apparently you could have used soap!

http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank


I am rather hoping I might be able to get a good discount on a new 2.0
litre TDI VW.
--
Michael Chare
MM
2015-09-24 17:56:07 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 18:14:05 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:06:43 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base.
My heating engineer said the current concrete platform will have to be
extended as it sites the tank too close to combustible material. But
he's going to do the whole job for me. I've had him many times to
service the boiler so I don't expect to get ripped off. Plus, he
services most of the other neighbours' tanks on the estate, so he does
have a reputation to maintain (unlike VW it seems!)
MM
Apparently you could have used soap!
Yeah, I saw that too, after the event! Must be some kind of chemical
reaction. The fire brigade people used Dammit, which they said they
use a lot when lorry fuel tanks develop a leak. It certainly held up
in my case for over 12 hours and probably could have gone another six,
although it was dripping slightly by the time the heating engineer
arrived.
Post by Michael Chare
http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank
I am rather hoping I might be able to get a good discount on a new 2.0
litre TDI VW.
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS. The Diesel
versions are probably worthless now, if they don't comply with the
regs. Just like failing the Diesel MoT, but permanent.

I have ~never~ wanted a Diesel car. It's been petrol for me since
1965-ish.

MM
charles
2015-09-24 17:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 18:14:05 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:06:43 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base.
My heating engineer said the current concrete platform will have to be
extended as it sites the tank too close to combustible material. But
he's going to do the whole job for me. I've had him many times to
service the boiler so I don't expect to get ripped off. Plus, he
services most of the other neighbours' tanks on the estate, so he does
have a reputation to maintain (unlike VW it seems!)
MM
Apparently you could have used soap!
Yeah, I saw that too, after the event! Must be some kind of chemical
reaction. The fire brigade people used Dammit, which they said they
use a lot when lorry fuel tanks develop a leak. It certainly held up
in my case for over 12 hours and probably could have gone another six,
although it was dripping slightly by the time the heating engineer
arrived.
Post by Michael Chare
http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank
I am rather hoping I might be able to get a good discount on a new 2.0
litre TDI VW.
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda?
or Audi!

The diesel engine in my Seat (owned from 1996 for 6 years) was developed by
Audi
--
Please note new email address:
***@CandEhope.me.uk
Adrian
2015-09-24 19:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
The diesel engine in my Seat (owned from 1996 for 6 years) was developed
by Audi
Umm, it was developed by VAG.

VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - all just brands of VAG - as are Bugatti, Bentley,
Lamborghini, Ducati, MAN...

The platforms are the same, the mechanicals are the same, the electronics
are the same, the factories are the same.
MM
2015-09-24 20:33:23 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 19:30:32 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by charles
The diesel engine in my Seat (owned from 1996 for 6 years) was developed
by Audi
Umm, it was developed by VAG.
And now they all look like they hail from Scunthorpe!

MM
MM
2015-09-24 20:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 18:14:05 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
Post by MM
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:06:43 +0100, Michael Chare
Post by Michael Chare
I think with plastic tanks you have to make sure that they are on a firm
flat level base.
My heating engineer said the current concrete platform will have to be
extended as it sites the tank too close to combustible material. But
he's going to do the whole job for me. I've had him many times to
service the boiler so I don't expect to get ripped off. Plus, he
services most of the other neighbours' tanks on the estate, so he does
have a reputation to maintain (unlike VW it seems!)
MM
Apparently you could have used soap!
Yeah, I saw that too, after the event! Must be some kind of chemical
reaction. The fire brigade people used Dammit, which they said they
use a lot when lorry fuel tanks develop a leak. It certainly held up
in my case for over 12 hours and probably could have gone another six,
although it was dripping slightly by the time the heating engineer
arrived.
Post by Michael Chare
http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank
I am rather hoping I might be able to get a good discount on a new 2.0
litre TDI VW.
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda?
or Audi!
The diesel engine in my Seat (owned from 1996 for 6 years) was developed by
Audi
Well, I would think this scam is a fairly recent thing, perhaps to
coinicide with the most recent and stringent US regs.

Before I bought my first Suzuki Alto in 2011 I test drove a VW Polo
(might have been a fox). Okay-ish, but when I discovered that the road
fund licence was £125 a year, every year, I backed away immediately.
The Alto was free for the first year and £20 after that. The *new*
Alto I bought in March 2015 is permanently free. (Hope they haven't
fiddled the figures either!)

Back to VW for a moment, and I simply cannot understand what possessed
management to condone the software tweaks. I can only explain it by
suggesting that it was a moment of blind panic by the VW top
management, something like this possible, but unlikely scenario:

CEO: "We gotta comply with the newest US regs! We simply gotta."

Chief designer: "Can't be done, old fruit. The engines, injection
systems, electronics, practically everything under the hood would need
from-the-ground-up redesign to meet those US values."

CEO: "How long?"

CD: "Five years, minimal, for all models."

CEO: "So what you're saying is, for five years we won't be able to
sell any vehicles in the US as none of the current range meets the
regs?"

CD: "Pretty much, yeah."

CEO: "Well, what if we tweaked the emissions values electronically on
a very short-term TEMPORARY basis while we rapidly redesign all the
gear asap?"

CD: "Probably could work, but what if we got found out?"

CEO: "I resign and you'll carry the can!"

CD: "'Twas ever thus!"

MM
Huge
2015-09-25 10:00:45 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-09-24, MM <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[57 lines snipped]
Post by MM
Back to VW for a moment, and I simply cannot understand what possessed
management to condone the software tweaks. I can only explain it by
suggesting that it was a moment of blind panic by the VW top
CEO: "We gotta comply with the newest US regs! We simply gotta."
Chief designer: "Can't be done, old fruit. The engines, injection
systems, electronics, practically everything under the hood would need
from-the-ground-up redesign to meet those US values."
CEO: "How long?"
CD: "Five years, minimal, for all models."
CEO: "So what you're saying is, for five years we won't be able to
sell any vehicles in the US as none of the current range meets the
regs?"
CD: "Pretty much, yeah."
CEO: "Well, what if we tweaked the emissions values electronically on
a very short-term TEMPORARY basis while we rapidly redesign all the
gear asap?"
CD: "Probably could work, but what if we got found out?"
CEO: "I resign and you'll carry the can!"
CD: "'Twas ever thus!"
It isn't as simple as that. They could have been made to meet the regs with
the fitment of an AdBlue system, but VW didn't do that on their cheaper
models, presumably because of "value engineering".

http://jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-dieselgate-volkswagens-diesel-cheating-c-1731857018
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Adrian
2015-09-24 19:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS.
Fuck that. I'm seriously thinking of buying VW shares.
Huge
2015-09-25 10:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS.
Fuck that. I'm seriously thinking of buying VW shares.
The thought had crossed my mind.

OTOH, this may bankrupt VW.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Adrian
2015-09-25 11:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS.
Fuck that. I'm seriously thinking of buying VW shares.
The thought had crossed my mind.
Looking again at the stock price graphs, nope. Still quite high,
historically.
Post by Huge
OTOH, this may bankrupt VW.
MASSIVELY unlikely.

Potential $18bn fine? $18bn off the market capitalisation?

Turnover $200+bn, profit $11bn, assets $350bn, market capitalisation
$125bn before this...
Huge
2015-09-25 13:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by Huge
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS.
Fuck that. I'm seriously thinking of buying VW shares.
The thought had crossed my mind.
Looking again at the stock price graphs, nope. Still quite high,
historically.
Post by Huge
OTOH, this may bankrupt VW.
MASSIVELY unlikely.
Potential $18bn fine? $18bn off the market capitalisation?
Turnover $200+bn, profit $11bn, assets $350bn, market capitalisation
$125bn before this...
$18bn isn't even the beginning - that's just the likely fine. Then there's
the fines in all the other jurisdictions, the class action suit(s), in
America and everywhere else they've done this, the complete destruction of
their market in the USA (even for vehicles to which it didn't apply) and
likely in many other places, compensation for people who bought the vehicles,
the cost of the unsaleable vehicles and likely many other things which I've
forgotten.

And the American lawyers won't hesitate to destroy VAG. After all, there
are precious few American jobs dependent on it.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 19:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS. The Diesel
versions are probably worthless now, if they don't comply with the
regs. Just like failing the Diesel MoT, but permanent.
Why permenant? The ECU's can either be reflashed with new firmware as
part of the next service or the ECU's swapped out, factory
reprogrammed and sent back out.

This does assume that either the car can be made to meet a given
emmisions spec or they simply alter the spec of the cars to tell the
truth. Maybe offering a "buy back" deal for owners who no longer want
the "re-speced" car.
--
Cheers
Dave.
MM
2015-09-24 20:40:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 20:38:04 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS. The Diesel
versions are probably worthless now, if they don't comply with the
regs. Just like failing the Diesel MoT, but permanent.
Why permenant? The ECU's can either be reflashed with new firmware as
part of the next service or the ECU's swapped out, factory
reprogrammed and sent back out.
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software. The designs are old and tired. They should have
been keeping abreast of what regs were due. With their current designs
they could never meet those regs.
Post by Dave Liquorice
This does assume that either the car can be made to meet a given
emmisions spec or they simply alter the spec of the cars to tell the
truth. Maybe offering a "buy back" deal for owners who no longer want
the "re-speced" car.
But the truth, i.e. failure to comply with the regs without cheating,
will kill the VW market in the US (and possibly in Europe, too) stone
dead. Used cars will become worthless if they were subjected to the
tweaks, as they won't be able to meet MoT requirements, or equivalent
in other countries. Basically, VW is well and truly f***ed, and how
they ever thought it would never come out baffles me. I am gobsmacked.
Every time I switch on the news, there's further revelations.

MM
Andy Burns
2015-09-24 20:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.

Yes it's a problem for VW, I don't see it as a problem for owners.
Adrian
2015-09-24 21:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.
Rather more relevantly, the MOT emissions test doesn't check for NOx, and
doesn't require anything even in the same order of magnitude as the
emissions standards.
MM
2015-09-25 08:09:23 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:43:20 +0100, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.
Yes it's a problem for VW, I don't see it as a problem for owners.
*The resale value will drop* ! Prospective car buyers will milk the
scandal for all it's worth.

MM
Andy Burns
2015-09-25 08:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Andy Burns
it's a problem for VW, I don't see it as a problem for owners.
*The resale value will drop* ! Prospective car buyers will milk the
scandal for all it's worth.
Only if the media and people like you whip it up into a frenzy that
makes it a problem for owners and prospective owners, we're hardly going
to replace over half of the vehicles on the road with petrol overnight,
are we?
MM
2015-09-25 18:26:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 09:43:42 +0100, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Post by Andy Burns
it's a problem for VW, I don't see it as a problem for owners.
*The resale value will drop* ! Prospective car buyers will milk the
scandal for all it's worth.
Only if the media and people like you whip it up into a frenzy
It's just common sense, not whipping up anything. VW made the story.
It has to live with the consequences.
Post by Andy Burns
that
makes it a problem for owners and prospective owners, we're hardly going
to replace over half of the vehicles on the road with petrol overnight,
are we?
What if the Diesel kind are banned from the road, or will the
government repeal the legislation on emissions?

Here's an idea: Get Ford to make retrofit engines that VW owners can
purchase for a couple of grand a vehicle. I worked for Ford for 10
years in Cologne. They know what they're doing, do Ford.

MM
Huge
2015-09-25 21:57:23 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-09-25, MM <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[24 lines snipped]
Post by MM
Here's an idea: Get Ford to make retrofit engines that VW owners can
purchase for a couple of grand a vehicle. I worked for Ford for 10
years in Cologne. They know what they're doing, do Ford.
Ahem.

https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
MM
2015-09-25 22:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
[24 lines snipped]
Post by MM
Here's an idea: Get Ford to make retrofit engines that VW owners can
purchase for a couple of grand a vehicle. I worked for Ford for 10
years in Cologne. They know what they're doing, do Ford.
Ahem.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html
That was Ford US, I believe.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-25 22:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Here's an idea: Get Ford to make retrofit engines that VW owners can
purchase for a couple of grand a vehicle. I worked for Ford for 10 years
in Cologne. They know what they're doing, do Ford.
Mmm. Remind me, doesn't the 1.6TDCi have just about the worst reputation
of any single current/recent diesel?
MM
2015-09-25 22:41:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 22:12:54 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
Post by MM
Here's an idea: Get Ford to make retrofit engines that VW owners can
purchase for a couple of grand a vehicle. I worked for Ford for 10 years
in Cologne. They know what they're doing, do Ford.
Mmm. Remind me, doesn't the 1.6TDCi have just about the worst reputation
of any single current/recent diesel?
Well, I couldn't stay forever with the same company!

MM
Huge
2015-09-25 10:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.
There is no "cheat" mode. The cars are deliberately and knowingly put
into test mode for the emissions testing. They have to be, otherwise the
stability & traction control systems get confused because the front wheels
are doing (say) 50mph while the rear wheels are stationary.

"All" VW did was add an emissions tweak to the existing test mode.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Andy Burns
2015-09-25 10:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
There is no "cheat" mode. The cars are deliberately and knowingly put
into test mode for the emissions testing. They have to be, otherwise the
stability & traction control systems get confused because the front wheels
are doing (say) 50mph while the rear wheels are stationary.
I know they use rolling road for the type-approval tests
yes the ECU/ABS controllers could detect that and go into "cheat" mode.

Limits for type approval, note the Euro6 has only just come into effect.

<http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/exhaust-emissions-testing.asp>
Post by Huge
"All" VW did was add an emissions tweak to the existing test mode.
But the MOT test doesn't use a rolling road, just a certain amount of
warming-up, and revs and sampling the exhaust gasses, insufficient clue
for the cheat mode

Anyway, it seems the MOT doesn't set any limit for NOx, Though I think
I've seen numbers for NOx on the exhaust analysis printout

<https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/346222/emissions_17th_edition.pdf>

Too big a document for me to be bothered with reading the lot.
MM
2015-09-25 18:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.
There is no "cheat" mode. The cars are deliberately and knowingly put
into test mode for the emissions testing. They have to be, otherwise the
stability & traction control systems get confused because the front wheels
are doing (say) 50mph while the rear wheels are stationary.
"All" VW did was add an emissions tweak to the existing test mode.
Yes, they cheated.

MM
Huge
2015-09-25 21:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Huge
Post by Andy Burns
Post by MM
Because the vehicles cannot achieve the required values without "help"
from the software.
Mine didn't have any problems getting through two MOTs, I doubt the
warmup they use in the test centre is sufficiently to trigger any
"cheat" mode.
There is no "cheat" mode. The cars are deliberately and knowingly put
into test mode for the emissions testing. They have to be, otherwise the
stability & traction control systems get confused because the front wheels
are doing (say) 50mph while the rear wheels are stationary.
"All" VW did was add an emissions tweak to the existing test mode.
Yes, they cheated.
Oh, indeed. I'm merely seeking to clarify the cock in the popular media.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Andy Burns
2015-09-25 18:25:29 UTC
Permalink
"All" VW did was [...]
Cue the BBC's Theo Legget reporting on the Porsche CEO getting the VW
job and being distanced from dieselgate

"They *don't* *make* diesel cars at Porsche ..."

<cough>
<http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayenne/90100/porsche-cayenne-diesel-2015-review>
</cough>
Huge
2015-09-25 21:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
"All" VW did was [...]
Cue the BBC's Theo Legget reporting on the Porsche CEO getting the VW
job and being distanced from dieselgate
"They *don't* *make* diesel cars at Porsche ..."
I didn't need the URL to know this is untrue.

There's a diesel Panamera, too.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Adrian
2015-09-25 22:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Cue the BBC's Theo Legget reporting on the Porsche CEO getting the VW
job and being distanced from dieselgate
"They *don't* *make* diesel cars at Porsche ..."
<cough>
<http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayenne/90100/porsche-cayenne-
diesel-2015-review>
Post by Andy Burns
</cough>
And the Panamera. And the Macan. And rumours of a future Boxster/Cayman.

Which only leaves the 911.
Huge
2015-09-25 22:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Cue the BBC's Theo Legget reporting on the Porsche CEO getting the VW
job and being distanced from dieselgate
"They *don't* *make* diesel cars at Porsche ..."
<cough>
<http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayenne/90100/porsche-cayenne-
diesel-2015-review>
Post by Andy Burns
</cough>
And the Panamera. And the Macan. And rumours of a future Boxster/Cayman.
Ghod forbid.
Post by Andy Burns
Which only leaves the 911.
A diesel 911? The world will end.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
Huge
2015-09-25 10:02:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by MM
Is it even wise to consider a VW now? Or Seat or Skoda? I have the
feeling that this scandal is going to haunt them for YEARS. The Diesel
versions are probably worthless now, if they don't comply with the
regs. Just like failing the Diesel MoT, but permanent.
Why permenant?
Because it's possible that without the fitment of an AdBlue system, which
these cars lack, they cannot be made to meet the regs.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 49th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
S Viemeister
2015-09-24 19:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Chare
Apparently you could have used soap!
http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank
That was suggested by the people who put in our new boiler - as a
stopgap, of course.
MM
2015-09-24 20:48:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:39:20 -0400, S Viemeister
Post by S Viemeister
Post by Michael Chare
Apparently you could have used soap!
http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank
That was suggested by the people who put in our new boiler - as a
stopgap, of course.
When I first noticed the leak I have to say, I panicked. Just did not
know what to do. I rushed indoors and grabbed the first thing I
thought might work, which happened to be that blue gasket gunk in the
yellow tube. Utterly useless. Never in a million years would I have
guessed soap!

Stages were, in brief:

1. Used potter's clay and duct tape. Held till fire brigade arrived 1
hour later.

2. Fire officers used Dammit and the roll of duct tape and made a much
better seal. Lasted till the next day, though by the time the heating
engineer arrived it had started to drip once every 3 seconds.

I had placed a square plastic bowl underneath the drip, and the total
amount in there when finally we had pumped out enough oil to relieve
the wall pressure and the drip ceased was about 2 litres.

However, that fuel was contaminated with rain water as it had started
to rain during the night. Has anyone got any suggestions for proper
disposal of this "mix" of water and kerosene?

MM
Big Les Wade
2015-09-24 20:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
However, that fuel was contaminated with rain water as it had started
to rain during the night. Has anyone got any suggestions for proper
disposal of this "mix" of water and kerosene?
You just let it settle until the oil is floating on the water. Then pour
off the oil into a separate can (filter it through gauze if you like)
leaving the water behind, and it's ready for transferring back into the
tank.
--
Les
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-25 08:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Les Wade
You just let it settle until the oil is floating on the water. Then pour
off the oil into a separate can (filter it through gauze if you like)
leaving the water behind, and it's ready for transferring back into the
tank.
Stop faffinga about just bung it in the tank, there will almost
certainly be water in the bottom of it already and the filter(s) in
the feed will take care of any bit that by some fluke might get taken
up by the feed before they settle.
--
Cheers
Dave.
MM
2015-09-25 18:29:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 09:38:39 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Big Les Wade
You just let it settle until the oil is floating on the water. Then pour
off the oil into a separate can (filter it through gauze if you like)
leaving the water behind, and it's ready for transferring back into the
tank.
Stop faffinga about just bung it in the tank, there will almost
certainly be water in the bottom of it already
Nope. Engineer tested it with that special stuff on a dipstick at the
last service. Not a trace.
Post by Dave Liquorice
and the filter(s) in
the feed will take care of any bit that by some fluke might get taken
up by the feed before they settle.
I expect the new tank will have a more modern filter bowl.

MM
Adrian
2015-09-24 21:04:31 UTC
Permalink
However, that fuel was contaminated with rain water as it had started to
rain during the night. Has anyone got any suggestions for proper
disposal of this "mix" of water and kerosene?
Allow it to settle and separate?

Kerosene's boiling point is 150-300degC, so heat it gently, and any
remaining water will evaporate. Then pour it back in the tank. A fraction
of two litres into a thousand litres... Your boiler won't even notice it.
JimK
2015-09-25 06:39:45 UTC
Permalink
/Kerosene's boiling point is 150-300degC, so heat it gently, and any
remaining water will evaporate./Q

Along with the kerosene....

Jim K
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-25 08:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
However, that fuel was contaminated with rain water as it had started
to rain during the night. Has anyone got any suggestions for proper
disposal of this "mix" of water and kerosene?
Pour it back into the tank. I'd put money on there being water in the
tank already.
--
Cheers
Dave.
JimK
2015-09-24 17:20:47 UTC
Permalink
/Not just near a water course, "above ground level" triggers the must
as well.
Post by Huge
From: Environment Agency and Department for Environment, Food & Rural
Affairs
First published: 6 May 2015
Part of: Oil storage and Environmental management
Applies to: England and Wales
How to install a new or replacement heating oil container at your home.
This page applies to you if you're installing a new or replacement
heating oil container with a capacity of more than 2,500 litres or in
* above ground level"
<snip> /Q

That appears to be at odds with both Oftec and the Building Regs....

Jim K
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 19:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
Post by Huge
From: Environment Agency and Department for Environment, Food & Rural
Affairs
First published: 6 May 2015
Part of: Oil storage and Environmental management
Applies to: England and Wales
How to install a new or replacement heating oil container at your home.
This page applies to you if you're installing a new or replacement
heating oil container with a capacity of more than 2,500 litres or in
* above ground level"
<snip> /Q
That appears to be at odds with both Oftec and the Building Regs....
ICBA'd to dig through the half dozen or so bits of
legislation/regulations that might apply. I saw over 200 l, over 350
l, under 2,500 l, under 3,500 l all in various contexts that might
(or might not) apply.

The online Building Regs ought to be right but note the date in the
quote.
--
Cheers
Dave.
JimK
2015-09-25 06:34:57 UTC
Permalink
/ICBA'd to dig through the half dozen or so bits of
legislation/regulations that might app/Q

Snip

Right. Not really an insightful analysis of the position then? just a juicy soundbite that looked too good not to trumpet...

Jim K
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-25 08:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
/ICBA'd to dig through the half dozen or so bits of
legislation/regulations that might app/Q
Right. Not really an insightful analysis of the position then? just a
juicy soundbite that looked too good not to trumpet...
Touchee.

But from what should be a relaible, offical, source, not some random
blog or company web site.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Brian-Gaff
2015-09-24 08:11:50 UTC
Permalink
It does seem a bit short lived. Kind of makes me wonder if perhaps the
mounting has put it under some kinds of stress, so when its full its being
twisted or something.
Maybe the whole batch was made with a slight flaw. I'm sure a guy down my
road has had a plastic tank for 20 years or so.
another case of they don't make em like they used to?
The fact that it split tends to suggest some uneven loads to me.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
Post by MM
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).
There is no fire station in the small town where I live in South
Lincs, so I called the Boston station and caught the resident fire
officer just as he was about to leave. He said straightway he'd send a
fire engine, as they had better sealing putty than the potter's clay.
They use it on lorry tanks. Anyway, they arrived 20 minutes later -
five blokes! Very helpful. Within just ten minutes the guy who seemed
to have done it before had sealed it with the stuff they use, which is
called Dammit (I've since looked it up on the internet). They covered
the Dammit with several layers of what looked like black duct tape.
In the interim I called my heating engineer, who is coming first thing
this morning with temporary bund tanks to pump out my tank into. I'll
have to get a new tank, but I don't know whether to get a single-skin
or a bund tank. The fire officer thought bund tanks were mandatory
now, but I still see firms on the internet selling single-skin ones,
which my current one is.
Thing is, I took delivery of heating oil yesterday mid-morning and it
filled the tank brimfull, so probably the extra pressure of 2000
litres pressing on the tank was enough for it to give way. The tank
was manufactured in 2004. I'm just hoping the repair will last until
tomorrow morning, but if it bursts open again, the fire officer said
just ring 999 as my details will now be on the system already.
Update: I didn't sleep much, so went out to check the repair during
the night. It lasted about 6 hours completely dry, but at about 01:30
am this morning I noticed it was weeping slightly. At 04:30 am it was
weeping more, and now, at 08:00 am it is dripping ~slightly~ (about a
drip every 3 seconds). I gathered the leakage in a plastic bowl, which
has accumulated about 2 litres overnight, though some of that may well
be rainwater as it6's been raining off and on throughout the night.
The other thing was, a neighbour across the road two or three doors
down had exactly the same thing happen to him, according to my
immediate neighbour. He had his tank filled right up and it developed
a leak soon afterwards! These tanks are now over 11 years old on the
estate. They are, I see from the internet, guaranteed for ten years,
but I had assumed they last forever.
1. What other course of action might I have taken?
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay? Note that bund
tanks don't come in as many sizes (capacities) and are at least twice
the price of single-skin. Howeverm I'm not worried about the cost at
the moment. I just want to get it sorted.
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
4. Any further suggestions as to replacing the tank with the new one?
My friendly heating engineer will do all the work, but I'm asking what
points to remember? How heavy are these plastic tanks when empty?
The tank is round cross-section, about 1m diameter and 2m long.
MM
MM
2015-09-24 16:41:00 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:50 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
Post by Brian-Gaff
It does seem a bit short lived. Kind of makes me wonder if perhaps the
mounting has put it under some kinds of stress, so when its full its being
twisted or something.
Maybe the whole batch was made with a slight flaw. I'm sure a guy down my
road has had a plastic tank for 20 years or so.
another case of they don't make em like they used to?
The fact that it split tends to suggest some uneven loads to me.
Brian
Suggests the same to me, too. As I was looking side on at the tank
after the panic was over this morning and we'd transferred 1000 litres
to the temporary tank, I could see a definite dip in the middle of the
tank. Simon could see it, too, when I pointed it out.

But that 500 litre delivery I had yesterday was definitely the last
straw for this old tank. The fire officer said it certainly looked
like it had experienced a good few winters and summers.

MM
MM
2015-09-24 17:21:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:50 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
Post by Brian-Gaff
It does seem a bit short lived. Kind of makes me wonder if perhaps the
mounting has put it under some kinds of stress, so when its full its being
twisted or something.
Maybe the whole batch was made with a slight flaw. I'm sure a guy down my
road has had a plastic tank for 20 years or so.
another case of they don't make em like they used to?
The fact that it split tends to suggest some uneven loads to me.
Brian
The current tank was installed in 2004 when the 40 properties were
constructed. It is a "Harlequin 2100HZ Horizontal L 2120 mm W 1240 mm
H 1260 mm", according to the label on the front face. (Round
cross-section)

MM
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 08:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
The other thing was, a neighbour across the road two or three doors
down had exactly the same thing happen to him, according to my
immediate neighbour. He had his tank filled right up and it developed
a leak soon afterwards! These tanks are now over 11 years old on the
estate. They are, I see from the internet, guaranteed for ten years,
but I had assumed they last forever.
Hum, sounds like a bad batch or consitently bad installation. Are
these tanks fully and solidy supported underneath? Did your
neighbours claim on the guarantees? If so the manufacturer should
have a record of those claims and might accept the "bad batch" theory
and honour the notionally expired guarantee. Get brief details of the
failures (address, date, tank model, actual failure) from as many
people on the estate as you can and write (paper) to the
manufactuerer pointing out the high failure rate and asking nicely
for them to honour the guarantee on your tank.

If you don't ask you don't get.
Post by MM
1. What other course of action might I have taken?
What you did seems fine to me, can't think of anything I would have
done differently.
Post by MM
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay?
Check the regs, you might not have the option. These days if I was
replacing our tank I'd go for a bunded one. If the EA get to hear
about a leak of kerosene they are going to want it cleaned up, so all
"contaminated" soil removed and disposed of (hazardos waste, not
cheap).

A bunded tank also means that you still have the oil should the inner
one leak.
Post by MM
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
Seems a bit of a design flaw to make a 2000 l tank that can only hold
1000 l safely. Not to mention false advertisng.
Post by MM
How heavy are these plastic tanks when empty?
Doesn't it say in the spec on the website?

You've got me worried now, took a delivery of 2250 l the other week.
I check the sight glass every week to track consumption, the level
can be a bit wild the week after a delivery, expansion, entrained
air, etc so when it went up that week I wasn't bothered. Trouble is
it went up the second week as well, thinking that rain might have
been getting in clambered up to inspect top of tank and spoted a
small crack/tear at a high stress inside corner, don't think it's
full thickness and it's above the oil line. Tank is getting on for 20
years old and sits in full sun.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Mike Tomlinson
2015-09-24 09:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Liquorice
spoted a
small crack/tear at a high stress inside corner, don't think it's
full thickness and it's above the oil line. Tank is getting on for 20
years old and sits in full sun.
Might be time to run it empty and replace it. Of course, this has
happened just as the weather is beginning to get colder...
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 16:33:06 UTC
Permalink
... spoted a small crack/tear at a high stress inside corner,
don't
think it's full thickness and it's above the oil line. Tank is
getting
on for 20 years old and sits in full sun.
Might be time to run it empty and replace it. Of course, this has
happened just as the weather is beginning to get colder...
That's OK it'll empty quicker. Current estimate of the next refill
date based on the use for the last 4 weeks is Jan '17... Jan '16
would be more realistic.

Bigger problem(s) are more likely to be all the regulations it breaks
due to its position and the oil line being plain 15 mm copper
threaded through black plastic pipe. Thick walled and pretty damn
tough, much tougher than the white plastic coating on pukker oil line
pipe. How many of the modern regulations would have to be accomodated
I don't know.

Titan tanks offer a free "site survey":

http://www.titanenv.com/freesitesurvey.aspx

But I note it's actually done by "your local Titan Accredited
Installer".
--
Cheers
Dave.
MM
2015-09-24 16:54:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:48:20 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by MM
The other thing was, a neighbour across the road two or three doors
down had exactly the same thing happen to him, according to my
immediate neighbour. He had his tank filled right up and it developed
a leak soon afterwards! These tanks are now over 11 years old on the
estate. They are, I see from the internet, guaranteed for ten years,
but I had assumed they last forever.
Hum, sounds like a bad batch or consitently bad installation. Are
these tanks fully and solidy supported underneath? Did your
neighbours claim on the guarantees? If so the manufacturer should
have a record of those claims and might accept the "bad batch" theory
and honour the notionally expired guarantee. Get brief details of the
failures (address, date, tank model, actual failure) from as many
people on the estate as you can and write (paper) to the
manufactuerer pointing out the high failure rate and asking nicely
for them to honour the guarantee on your tank.
They're only guaranteed for ten years and they're at least a year
older.
Post by Dave Liquorice
If you don't ask you don't get.
Post by MM
1. What other course of action might I have taken?
What you did seems fine to me, can't think of anything I would have
done differently.
Post by MM
2. Should I get a bund tank or is single-skin okay?
Check the regs, you might not have the option. These days if I was
replacing our tank I'd go for a bunded one. If the EA get to hear
about a leak of kerosene they are going to want it cleaned up, so all
"contaminated" soil removed and disposed of (hazardos waste, not
cheap).
Yep, bunded it will be. The heating engineer said he would not
consider single-skin at all.
Post by Dave Liquorice
A bunded tank also means that you still have the oil should the inner
one leak.
Post by MM
3. Should I NEVER AGAIN fill the new tank up to the top?
Seems a bit of a design flaw to make a 2000 l tank that can only hold
1000 l safely. Not to mention false advertisng.
Post by MM
How heavy are these plastic tanks when empty?
Doesn't it say in the spec on the website?
Yeah, you're right!
Post by Dave Liquorice
You've got me worried now, took a delivery of 2250 l the other week.
I check the sight glass every week to track consumption, the level
can be a bit wild the week after a delivery, expansion, entrained
air, etc so when it went up that week I wasn't bothered. Trouble is
it went up the second week as well, thinking that rain might have
been getting in clambered up to inspect top of tank and spoted a
small crack/tear at a high stress inside corner, don't think it's
full thickness and it's above the oil line. Tank is getting on for 20
years old and sits in full sun.
The crack in my tank is also in a corner. Opposite it in the other
corner there is an obvious crack ~starting~ to happen, but wasn't
leaking yesterday. In any case, we've now brought the level down to
well below the line of the leak point, i.e. below the horizontal seam.

Mind you, I'll only be able to sleep like a baby once again when the
new tank is in place, filled, checked for tight joints etc and a nice
hefty bill to pay. Thank goodness for having had frugal living drummed
into me as a kid, which has always made me save, save and save some
more.

People without savings, which category many Brits fall into, are
really stuffed if this happens to them.

MM
Dave Liquorice
2015-09-24 20:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Dave Liquorice
Hum, sounds like a bad batch or consitently bad installation. Are
these tanks fully and solidy supported underneath? Did your
neighbours claim on the guarantees? If so the manufacturer should
have a record of those claims and might accept the "bad batch" theory
and honour the notionally expired guarantee. Get brief details of the
failures (address, date, tank model, actual failure) from as many
people on the estate as you can and write (paper) to the
manufactuerer pointing out the high failure rate and asking nicely
for them to honour the guarantee on your tank.
They're only guaranteed for ten years and they're at least a year
older.
So? One could reasonably expect something with a ten year gurantee to
last 20 years. As you apparently have evidence that a number of these
tanks all installed at the same time have all suffered similar
failures that indicates a problem with the tanks.

As I said "if you don't ask, you don't get".
Post by MM
People without savings, which category many Brits fall into, are
really stuffed if this happens to them.
Or they get a new credit card with 20+ months interest free credit
and pay it off slowly. Or Stooze the card, ie use it for all
purchases, only pay off the minimum each month and bung the cash that
would have gone to the card into a high interest account (or better
mortgage offset account) to earn interest for nearly two years. Needs
a bit of discpline to absolutely put the money aside and not touch it
and big notes in your diary to fully pay off the card just before the
interest free period ends.

How much is a new 2500 l bunded tank? I am sitting down. B-)
--
Cheers
Dave.
MM
2015-09-24 20:58:34 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:03:47 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by MM
Post by Dave Liquorice
Hum, sounds like a bad batch or consitently bad installation. Are
these tanks fully and solidy supported underneath? Did your
neighbours claim on the guarantees? If so the manufacturer should
have a record of those claims and might accept the "bad batch"
theory
Post by MM
Post by Dave Liquorice
and honour the notionally expired guarantee. Get brief details of
the
Post by MM
Post by Dave Liquorice
failures (address, date, tank model, actual failure) from as many
people on the estate as you can and write (paper) to the
manufactuerer pointing out the high failure rate and asking nicely
for them to honour the guarantee on your tank.
They're only guaranteed for ten years and they're at least a year
older.
So? One could reasonably expect something with a ten year gurantee to
last 20 years. As you apparently have evidence that a number of these
tanks all installed at the same time have all suffered similar
failures that indicates a problem with the tanks.
As I said "if you don't ask, you don't get".
True, but I don't think we'd have a leg to stand on, because the
guarantee has expired. I don't know why you think it's reasonable for
the tank to last for 20 years if the manufacturers only offer 10.

Anyway, Simon the heating engineer has dealt with dozens of plastic
(and metal) tanks that have leaked, all makes, all sizes, on farms, at
domestic dwellings.

Also, litigation of any nature doesn't come cheap. I recently changed
my will (donated it all to VW - only kidding!) and for a simple change
of one name, four addresses and the addition of one person the fee
came to £48, and that at a small market town solicitor in Lincs. God
knows what it would have cost in London.
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by MM
People without savings, which category many Brits fall into, are
really stuffed if this happens to them.
Or they get a new credit card with 20+ months interest free credit
and pay it off slowly. Or Stooze the card, ie use it for all
purchases, only pay off the minimum each month and bung the cash that
would have gone to the card into a high interest account (or better
mortgage offset account) to earn interest for nearly two years. Needs
a bit of discpline to absolutely put the money aside and not touch it
and big notes in your diary to fully pay off the card just before the
interest free period ends.
I've been doing that every month for the past 30 years. I missed just
ONE month because I was abroad (long before the internet was ever
dreamed of).
Post by Dave Liquorice
How much is a new 2500 l bunded tank? I am sitting down. B-)
I'm getting a 1300 litre slimline and it'll be anything up to £2K,
plus the labour, concrete slab, temporary tank, etc etc. Put it this
way, I won't be buying fresh, wild salmon or raw prawns for a while.
And the oysters will have to get back in their shells, too. (Actually,
I hate the look of oysters when opened. Look like vaginas. Probably
smell like 'em as well.)

So what? When you've saved up for just this kind of emergency?

MM
Adrian
2015-09-24 21:06:25 UTC
Permalink
(Actually, I hate the look of oysters when opened. Look like vaginas.
Probably smell like 'em as well.)
You hate vaginas, too?

I didn't have you down as gay, have to admit.
MM
2015-09-25 08:11:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:06:25 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
Post by Adrian
(Actually, I hate the look of oysters when opened. Look like vaginas.
Probably smell like 'em as well.)
You hate vaginas, too?
I didn't have you down as gay, have to admit.
No, I'm as hetero as you can get. However, I'm completely tolerant of
other people's sexual preferences.

MM
NY
2015-09-24 16:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).
Good luck with getting it replaced before the tank splits any more.

We had a minor oil leak in join in the pipe (nowhere near the tank) and when
the insurance loss adjuster came to authorise payment for the fairly small
cleanup and repair costs, he examined the rest of the system and found that
our existing single-skin tank was rusting through and needed to be replaced
urgently. We went for a slightly larger-capacity one to increase the chance
that we'd be able to order oil in 1000-litre multiples as this is a
price-break point (ie we wouldn't have to let the oil level get so low
before ordering more). And we went for bunded as being safer: two skins
rather than one have to fail before you get a leakage.

As it happens, when we later had to get our boiler replaced (it never rains
but pours) the engineer who did that said that the new tank should not have
been placed where it was (close to buildings and a wooden shed) and should
have been on proper mortared base rather than stacks of breezeblocks, and
ideally should have its exit a bit higher - as far as he could tell there
was very little fall from the tank outlet to the boiler level. But he said
he was under no obligation to report that to anyone so he suggested that we
all pretend he'd never noticed it. Any comeback would be on the fitting
company not on us who can't be expected to know the rules.
MM
2015-09-24 16:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by NY
Post by MM
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).
Good luck with getting it replaced before the tank splits any more.
We had a minor oil leak in join in the pipe (nowhere near the tank) and when
the insurance loss adjuster came to authorise payment for the fairly small
cleanup and repair costs, he examined the rest of the system and found that
our existing single-skin tank was rusting through and needed to be replaced
urgently. We went for a slightly larger-capacity one to increase the chance
that we'd be able to order oil in 1000-litre multiples as this is a
price-break point (ie we wouldn't have to let the oil level get so low
before ordering more). And we went for bunded as being safer: two skins
rather than one have to fail before you get a leakage.
As it happens, when we later had to get our boiler replaced (it never rains
but pours) the engineer who did that said that the new tank should not have
been placed where it was (close to buildings and a wooden shed) and should
have been on proper mortared base rather than stacks of breezeblocks, and
ideally should have its exit a bit higher - as far as he could tell there
was very little fall from the tank outlet to the boiler level. But he said
he was under no obligation to report that to anyone so he suggested that we
all pretend he'd never noticed it. Any comeback would be on the fitting
company not on us who can't be expected to know the rules.
My heating engineer this morning was telling very similar stories. I
do have a mortar base, but it will have to be extended or replaced
first, as it is too close to the fence, even for bunded, which I'm
getting.

MM
MM
2015-09-24 17:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Pic #4 on this page http://ryeoil.co.uk/leaking-oil-tank shows an
almost identical crack to mine and in a very similar place. Mine
wasn't as big though.

MM
MM
2015-09-27 17:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by NY
Post by MM
Had an emergency yesterday afternoon. I happened to be hanging the
washing outside when I noticed that the heating oil tank had split for
about an inch about half-way up the side. The oil wasn't gushing out,
but something Had To Be Done urgently. This was at 5:30 pm so the
heating oil supplier had gone home. The next door neighbour and I
managed to seal the leak temporarily with wet potter's clay and tape
so that it just dripped, but I thought I can't leave it like that
until the morning, so I called the fire station in Boston for advice
(non-999 number).
Good luck with getting it replaced before the tank splits any more.
We had a minor oil leak in join in the pipe (nowhere near the tank) and when
the insurance loss adjuster came to authorise payment for the fairly small
cleanup and repair costs, he examined the rest of the system and found that
our existing single-skin tank was rusting through and needed to be replaced
urgently. We went for a slightly larger-capacity one to increase the chance
that we'd be able to order oil in 1000-litre multiples as this is a
price-break point (ie we wouldn't have to let the oil level get so low
before ordering more). And we went for bunded as being safer: two skins
rather than one have to fail before you get a leakage.
As it happens, when we later had to get our boiler replaced (it never rains
but pours) the engineer who did that said that the new tank should not have
been placed where it was (close to buildings and a wooden shed) and should
have been on proper mortared base rather than stacks of breezeblocks, and
ideally should have its exit a bit higher - as far as he could tell there
was very little fall from the tank outlet to the boiler level. But he said
he was under no obligation to report that to anyone so he suggested that we
all pretend he'd never noticed it. Any comeback would be on the fitting
company not on us who can't be expected to know the rules.
Do you know whether the pipe from the tank to the boiler (up to the
flexible hose inside the Wallstar) has to be one single continuous
piece, i.e. no joins permitted?

Currently I'm clearing the foliage from the edge of the garden where
the pipe runs (currently white plastic covered copper tube) in case
the whole run has to be replaced (about 15m).

MM
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