Discussion:
lieber heinlich schlau als unheimlich doof
(too old to reply)
greta
2005-09-26 09:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Hello, can anybody give me the true meaning of:

Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof

Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?

Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.


Thanks for help
Monica
Alan Johnson
2005-09-26 09:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
--
Alan Johnson, ***@ns
www.geotrans-online.de
German-English, Geosciences/Technical
http://geotransblog.blogspot.com/
Terminus Est
Lanarcam
2005-09-26 10:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 10:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lanarcam
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and appear
a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)

Best,
Tim
Alan Johnson
2005-09-26 11:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and appear
a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
Best,
Tim
Tim, if I'm not mistaken, you haunt s.g.g. too? That makes three here.
--
Alan Johnson, ***@ns
www.geotrans-online.de
German-English, Geosciences/Technical
http://geotransblog.blogspot.com/
Terminus Est
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 11:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by Tim Kynerd
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and appear
a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
Best,
Tim
Tim, if I'm not mistaken, you haunt s.g.g. too? That makes three here.
Um, no, I was puzzled by the abbreviation s.g.g. Should I be there? :-)
Alan Johnson
2005-09-26 12:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Alan Johnson
Tim, if I'm not mistaken, you haunt s.g.g. too? That makes three here.
Um, no, I was puzzled by the abbreviation s.g.g. Should I be there? :-)
Not necessarily. Sorry, must be my age. :-( Oldtimers strikes again!

Regards
--
Alan Johnson, ***@ns
www.geotrans-online.de
German-English, Geosciences/Technical
http://geotransblog.blogspot.com/
Terminus Est
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 12:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Alan Johnson
Tim, if I'm not mistaken, you haunt s.g.g. too? That makes three here.
Um, no, I was puzzled by the abbreviation s.g.g. Should I be there? :-)
Not necessarily. Sorry, must be my age. :-( Oldtimers strikes again!
;-) So what IS it?

I searched on Google Groups and got a couple of candidates:
sci.geo.geology (hell no) and soc.genealogy.german (closer, my surname is
apparently German in origin).

Best,
Tim
Alan Johnson
2005-09-26 14:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
sci.geo.geology (hell no)
Hell, yes.

Regards
--
Alan Johnson, ***@ns
www.geotrans-online.de
German-English, Geosciences/Technical
http://geotransblog.blogspot.com/
Terminus Est
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 14:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by Tim Kynerd
sci.geo.geology (hell no)
Hell, yes.
;-) Sorry, didn't mean to offend you. I'm just not very science-y.

Best,
Tim
Alan Johnson
2005-09-26 15:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by Tim Kynerd
sci.geo.geology (hell no)
Hell, yes.
;-) Sorry, didn't mean to offend you. I'm just not very science-y.
Divvn't worry.
--
Alan Johnson, ***@ns
www.geotrans-online.de
German-English, Geosciences/Technical
http://geotransblog.blogspot.com/
Terminus Est
Evertjan.
2005-09-26 12:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Lanarcam
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and
appear a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
I am no German,
but I think you loose a lot in translation:

heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]

unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"

* = made up words

So the sentense has a inner rhyming joke,
so try to translate in a rhime too, perhaps:

"better smart in secret,
than an eery thickhead"
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 13:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Lanarcam
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and
appear a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
I am no German,
heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
* = made up words
So the sentense has a inner rhyming joke,
"better smart in secret,
than an eery thickhead"
Yeah, to start with, I wasn't offering a translation, but continuing on an
established theme. I think it was quite obvious that what I wrote wasn't a
translation of the German; neither was the French phrase in the post I
responded to (it only contained half of the idea found in the German
original).

And "eerie thickhead" (I've never encountered the spelling "eery" before
and hope I never shall again) makes no sense in English.
Evertjan.
2005-09-26 16:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Evertjan.
"better smart in secret,
than an eery thickhead"
Yeah, to start with, I wasn't offering a translation, but continuing
on an established theme. I think it was quite obvious that what I
wrote wasn't a translation of the German; neither was the French
phrase in the post I responded to (it only contained half of the idea
found in the German original).
I was not adressing you personally. Please don't take it as such.
Post by Tim Kynerd
And "eerie thickhead" (I've never encountered the spelling "eery"
before and hope I never shall again)
Perhaps you never encountered it, indeed, but I did.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: ee·rie
Variant(s): also ee·ry /'ir-E, 'Er-/
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): ee·ri·er; -est
Etymology: Middle English (northern dialect) eri
1 chiefly Scottish : affected with fright : SCARED
2 : so mysterious, strange, or unexpected as to send a chill up the spine
<a coyote's eerie howl> <the similarities were eerie>; also : seemingly
not of earthly origin <the flames cast an eerie glow>
Post by Tim Kynerd
makes no sense in English.
It makes no sense in German,
because the heimlich and unheimlich are not opposites.

Therefore I was not trying to make sense, but trying to show the rhyme.
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)
Tim Kynerd
2005-09-26 16:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Evertjan.
"better smart in secret,
than an eery thickhead"
Yeah, to start with, I wasn't offering a translation, but continuing
on an established theme. I think it was quite obvious that what I
wrote wasn't a translation of the German; neither was the French
phrase in the post I responded to (it only contained half of the idea
found in the German original).
I was not adressing you personally. Please don't take it as such.
Sorry; I took "I think you loose (sic) a lot in translation" as directed
at me.
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Tim Kynerd
And "eerie thickhead" (I've never encountered the spelling "eery"
before and hope I never shall again)
Perhaps you never encountered it, indeed, but I did.
Main Entry: ee·rie
Variant(s): also ee·ry /'ir-E, 'Er-/
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): ee·ri·er; -est
Etymology: Middle English (northern dialect) eri
1 chiefly Scottish : affected with fright : SCARED
2 : so mysterious, strange, or unexpected as to send a chill up the spine
<a coyote's eerie howl> <the similarities were eerie>; also : seemingly
not of earthly origin <the flames cast an eerie glow>
Fine. Doesn't stop me from hating it. :-)
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Tim Kynerd
makes no sense in English.
It makes no sense in German,
because the heimlich and unheimlich are not opposites.
Therefore I was not trying to make sense, but trying to show the rhyme.
Agreed. I need to read slower.
Einde O'Callaghan
2005-09-26 21:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Lanarcam
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and
appear a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
I am no German,
heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
* = made up words
So the sentense has a inner rhyming joke,
"better smart in secret,
than an eery thickhead"
Yeah, to start with, I wasn't offering a translation, but continuing on an
established theme. I think it was quite obvious that what I wrote wasn't a
translation of the German; neither was the French phrase in the post I
responded to (it only contained half of the idea found in the German
original).
And "eerie thickhead" (I've never encountered the spelling "eery" before
and hope I never shall again) makes no sense in English.
"Unheimlich" corresponds in some ways to the English "weird", so
roughly: "better to be clever in secret than to be a weird idiot"

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Nigel Greenwood
2005-09-27 10:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Einde O'Callaghan
"Unheimlich" corresponds in some ways to the English "weird", so
roughly: "better to be clever in secret than to be a weird idiot"
"Better guardedly canny than uncannily retarded"? Not quite, but
getting there ...

Nigel

--
ScriptMaster language resources (Chinese/Modern & Classical
Greek/IPA/Persian/Russian/Turkish):
http://www.elgin.free-online.co.uk
Alan Crozier
2005-09-27 11:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Greenwood
Post by Einde O'Callaghan
"Unheimlich" corresponds in some ways to the English "weird", so
roughly: "better to be clever in secret than to be a weird idiot"
"Better guardedly canny than uncannily retarded"? Not quite, but
getting there ...
Now, if you could just put that into witty Italian as the OP requested...

Alan
--
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
Sophie Fruehling
2005-09-26 14:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
<snip>
Post by Evertjan.
I am no German,
heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".

You are right that unheimlich is not "un-heimlich", but after
thinking about it for a while, I think it *is* used with this
meaning here, together with the original meaning. Kind of a pun,
although I didn't make the connection right away, I'm afraid.

Sophie
Evertjan.
2005-09-26 16:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by Evertjan.
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
Told you I am not German.

I had the Dutch(!) word "unheimisch" somewhere in my brain.

<http://taalunieversum.org/taal/advies/vraag/826/>
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)
Sophie Fruehling
2005-09-26 21:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by Evertjan.
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
Told you I am not German.
I had the Dutch(!) word "unheimisch" somewhere in my brain.
Oh, "unheimlich" as an adjective *does* mean "creepy", but not if
it's used as an adverb, i.e. to modify another adjective.

Sophie
g***@gmail.com
2005-09-26 19:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
<snip>
Post by Evertjan.
I am no German,
heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
You are right that unheimlich is not "un-heimlich", but after
thinking about it for a while, I think it *is* used with this
meaning here, together with the original meaning. Kind of a pun,
although I didn't make the connection right away, I'm afraid.
It's stronger than "very", don't you think? more like "incredibly
stupid" to my mind.

I think it's a retort to someone who has accused you of being
underhanded: "It's better to be clever in secret than to be
unbelievably stupid (like you)".

The similarity in sound of the two words is accidental.

Gary
Sophie Fruehling
2005-09-26 20:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Sophie Fruehling
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
It's stronger than "very", don't you think? more like "incredibly
stupid" to my mind.
Yes, you're right. More like "wahnsinnig". ;)
Post by g***@gmail.com
I think it's a retort to someone who has accused you of being
underhanded: "It's better to be clever in secret than to be
unbelievably stupid (like you)".
The similarity in sound of the two words is accidental.
I thought so too, first, but it might as well be intended as a pun.
It's the sort of slogan you'd find on stickers in teenagers'
magazines, or in MAD magazine, I think.

Sophie
Sophie Fruehling
2005-09-26 20:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Sophie Fruehling
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
It's stronger than "very", don't you think? more like "incredibly
stupid" to my mind.
Yes, you're right. More like "wahnsinnig". ;)
"wahnsinnig" like in "wahnsinnig dumm", of course, in case that
wasn't clear.

Sophie
g***@gmail.com
2005-09-26 20:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Sophie Fruehling
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
It's stronger than "very", don't you think? more like "incredibly
stupid" to my mind.
Yes, you're right. More like "wahnsinnig". ;)
"wahnsinnig" like in "wahnsinnig dumm", of course, in case that
wasn't clear.
It was clear to me.

I never know how to deal with plays on words that rely just on
similarity of sound.

Gary
g***@gmail.com
2005-09-26 20:05:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Sophie Fruehling
Post by Evertjan.
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
<snip>
Post by Evertjan.
I am no German,
heimlich = "in secret", [from geheimlich*, not from "homely"]
unheimlich = NOT ungeheimlig* "in the open",
but "creepy", "uncanny", "eery/eerie"
"unheimlich" followed by an adjective means "very", and has no
connotation of "creepy".
You are right that unheimlich is not "un-heimlich", but after
thinking about it for a while, I think it *is* used with this
meaning here, together with the original meaning. Kind of a pun,
although I didn't make the connection right away, I'm afraid.
It's stronger than "very", don't you think? more like "incredibly
stupid" to my mind.
I think it's a retort to someone who has accused you of being
underhanded: "It's better to be clever in secret than to be
unbelievably stupid (like you)".
The similarity in sound of the two words is accidental.
...but gives the saying such wit as it has.

Gary
Lanarcam
2005-09-26 13:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Kynerd
Post by Lanarcam
Post by Alan Johnson
Post by greta
Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof
Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?
Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.
It's better to be secretly (quitely) clever than (to be) a public fool.
There is a saying in french, taisez vous et vous paraitrez
intelligent, remain silent and you'll look clever.
And there's a saying in English: Better to keep your mouth shut and appear
a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. :-)
I should have known ... ;)

And here a citation of Pierre Dac: "Celui qui ouvre la bouche
manque toujours une bonne occasion de se taire"

You will find others here, if you need a break :)
http://www.dicocitations.com/resultat.php?id=807
Jan Liebelt
2005-09-30 13:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Despite what some other people have written, the phrase simply means "It's better to be clever and keep silent about it than (to be) incredibly stupid".

However, the heimlich-unheimlich construction is definitely a play on words, even though the two are not opposites (the opposite of "heimlich" is "offen", the opposite of "unheimlich" is - in this context - " ein wenig").

HTH


Jan

"greta" <***@tt.it> a écrit dans le message de news: 3lPZe.15795$***@news3.tin.it...
Hello, can anybody give me the true meaning of:

Lieber heimlich schlau als unheimlich doof

Better smart in secret as extremely stupid in public?

Whats the true meaning of this? I have to put in Italian.


Thanks for help
Monica
Bettina Price
2005-09-30 14:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Despite what some other people have written, the phrase simply >means "It's
better to be clever and keep silent about it than (to >be) incredibly
stupid".
However, the heimlich-unheimlich construction is definitely a >play on
words, even though the two are not opposites (the >opposite of "heimlich"
is "offen", the opposite of "unheimlich" >is - in this context - " ein
wenig").
There's quite a few of those types of phrases, like "lieber arm dran als Arm
ab". It's just playfulness.

Bettina

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