Discussion:
There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2020-12-04 11:15:45 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-04 11:51:49 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 11:15:45 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
I guess they should've waited a bit longer before hiring so many, but they
can hardly sack them now so not sure why the press are getting so worked up
given their salaries are probably a drop in the ocean compared to the overall
cost.
Certes
2020-12-04 13:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
[Quote from The Times]
A TfL spokesman said: “All available drivers are driving TfL Rail trains
on routes out of Paddington and Liverpool Street that will become part
of the Elizabeth line, undertaking vital testing of the central section
or training on other sections of the railway.”
[End quote]

Perhaps they can drive the Reading and Shenfield stoppers on 23/24/27
December, so those with broader route knowledge can add a few badly
needed specials elsewhere.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-04 15:18:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
[Quote from The Times]
A TfL spokesman said: “All available drivers are driving TfL Rail trains
on routes out of Paddington and Liverpool Street that will become part
of the Elizabeth line, undertaking vital testing of the central section
or training on other sections of the railway.”
[End quote]
Perhaps they can drive the Reading and Shenfield stoppers on 23/24/27
December, so those with broader route knowledge can add a few badly
needed specials elsewhere.
Only Crossrail drivers drive Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers only drive
Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers don't sign routes where Crossrail don't
run.

The Reading and Shenfield Crossrail stoppers will already be scheduled to
be crewed by Crossrail drivers.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Peter Johnson
2020-12-05 15:52:49 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:18:43 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Only Crossrail drivers drive Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers only drive
Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers don't sign routes where Crossrail don't
run.
The Reading and Shenfield Crossrail stoppers will already be scheduled to
be crewed by Crossrail drivers.
There were a couple of TV programmes about the building of Crossrail
broadcast two/three years ago (BBC2?) that featured driver training on
the new trains.
Clive Page
2020-12-06 09:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.

I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service cancelled because of shortage of staff".
--
Clive Page
Recliner
2020-12-06 10:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Page
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system
at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.
I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need
to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service
cancelled because of shortage of staff".
Yes, undoubtedly.

They may soon be busy, as intensive test service is due to start by the
Spring. They still have an internal target to start services through the
central tunnel by mid-Oct 2021, with all stations open.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-07 09:01:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:41:00 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by Clive Page
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system
at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.
I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need
to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service
cancelled because of shortage of staff".
Yes, undoubtedly.
They may soon be busy, as intensive test service is due to start by the
Spring. They still have an internal target to start services through the
central tunnel by mid-Oct 2021, with all stations open.
I wish them good luck with that.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-07 09:00:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-07 19:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-08 08:29:39 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
Roland Perry
2020-12-08 09:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-
18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2020-12-08 09:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-
18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
It's nice "work" if you can get it.  But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2020-12-08 11:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-
18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c5039240
51dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
It's nice "work" if you can get it.  But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that
pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line)
is a relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge
required.
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.
Isn't the tunnelled section going to be automatic operation?

And if you worked for GA, I doubt your shifts would be constrained to
shuttling LST-Shenfield, and never have the chance to go to other exotic
destinations such as Chelmsford and Southend.
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-08 21:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-
18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
It's nice "work" if you can get it.  But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.
The previous TOC drivers of what's now TfL Rail and will become Crossrail,
would have driven other routes too, not just Reading/Shenfield terminators.



Anna Noyd-Dryver
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-08 10:55:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
Roland Perry
2020-12-08 11:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-12-08 11:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
Roland Perry
2020-12-08 13:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-12-08 13:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?
Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term), which are longer, and some
need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average less than one round trip a week.
Roland Perry
2020-12-08 13:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?
Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term),
huh?
Post by Recliner
which are longer, and some need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average
less than one round trip a week.
LAX to Japan is 12hrs.
--
Roland Perry
Sam Wilson
2020-12-08 16:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Recliner
2020-12-08 20:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.
Sam
[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
Graeme Wall
2020-12-08 22:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.
Sam
[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-09 08:27:41 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
Graeme Wall
2020-12-09 17:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
Aeroflot got round that by getting crews to maintain Moscow time
regardless of where they were in the world.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-10 09:14:46 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 17:41:36 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
Aeroflot got round that by getting crews to maintain Moscow time
regardless of where they were in the world.
Thats one approach, but the subconcious isn't fooled that easily - if its
dark outside then we tend to get sleepy.
Graeme Wall
2020-12-10 09:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 17:41:36 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
Aeroflot got round that by getting crews to maintain Moscow time
regardless of where they were in the world.
Thats one approach, but the subconcious isn't fooled that easily - if its
dark outside then we tend to get sleepy.
Easier in Soviet days when they weren't allowed to leave the hotel
without special permission and a KGB escort.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2020-12-09 18:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
What about radiation levels?
Recliner
2020-12-09 21:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
What about radiation levels?
Yes, it's a risk of being an airline pilot, but of course it affects all of
them, not just long haul. The risk may be slightly greater with long haul.
Roland Perry
2020-12-10 07:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
--
Roland Perry
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-10 09:16:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 07:01:20 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
Graeme Wall
2020-12-10 09:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 07:01:20 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
Ionising radiation. it also affects the sensors on digital cameras so
Recliner needs to check his for excessive pixel loss. TV crews who do a
lot of flying tend to invest in special cases with a thin lead lining.
Causes havoc at some check-ins.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2020-12-10 11:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 07:01:20 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside
Lead perhaps, not something one often sees structurally on planes.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
I don't remember the details, but it was a very serious concern.
--
Roland Perry
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-10 12:08:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:53:27 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 07:01:20 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside
Lead perhaps, not something one often sees structurally on planes.
I'm not suggesting it would block it completely, but a sheet of aluminium
must be equivalent to quite a few thousand feet of air surely.
Roland Perry
2020-12-10 15:10:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:53:27 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 07:01:20 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
What about radiation levels?
One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside
Lead perhaps, not something one often sees structurally on planes.
I'm not suggesting it would block it completely, but a sheet of aluminium
must be equivalent to quite a few thousand feet of air surely.
Don't call me Shirley.
--
Roland Perry
David Cantrell
2020-12-11 12:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
UV *is* ionising radation, although nothing like as good at it as the
higher frequencies are.
--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Please stop rolling your Jargon Dice and explain the problem
you are having to me in plain English, using small words.
-- John Hardin, in the Monastery
Recliner
2020-12-12 14:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Cantrell
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
UV *is* ionising radation, although nothing like as good at it as the
higher frequencies are.
I assume UV would all be blocked by the fuselage; would the windscreens not also block some or all of it?

The other ionising radiation will penetrate the windscreens much more easily than the fuselage, meaning the pilots are
at more risk than cabin crew. However, I think cabin crew do more flying hours in a month, so it might balance out.

Presumably the new carbon fibre fuselages provide less protection than the traditional alloy skins?
Roland Perry
2020-12-12 14:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by David Cantrell
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
UV *is* ionising radation, although nothing like as good at it as the
higher frequencies are.
I assume UV would all be blocked by the fuselage; would the windscreens not also block some or all of it?
The other ionising radiation will penetrate the windscreens much more easily than the fuselage, meaning the pilots are
at more risk than cabin crew. However, I think cabin crew do more flying hours in a month, so it might balance out.
Presumably the new carbon fibre fuselages provide less protection than the traditional alloy skins?
All of this is routine H&S stuff for at least a generation. I suggest
you don't lose any sleep over it.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-12-12 15:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by David Cantrell
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Wouldn't some aluminium and various other bits of gubbins between the
pilot and outside at least partly offset radiation? Is the problem mainly
ionising radiation or UV?
UV *is* ionising radation, although nothing like as good at it as the
higher frequencies are.
I assume UV would all be blocked by the fuselage; would the windscreens
not also block some or all of it?
The other ionising radiation will penetrate the windscreens much more
easily than the fuselage, meaning the pilots are
at more risk than cabin crew. However, I think cabin crew do more flying
hours in a month, so it might balance out.
Presumably the new carbon fibre fuselages provide less protection than
the traditional alloy skins?
All of this is routine H&S stuff for at least a generation. I suggest
you don't lose any sleep over it.
Don't worry, I won't.

Sam Wilson
2020-12-10 11:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
See harder/easier.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.
There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.
Sam
[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.
There’s the pre-flight admin stuff but AFAICT once you’re off the ground
and established in climb you’re basically following ATC’s instructions to
get you up to cruising and on route, and following a couple of pretty
relaxed checklists. Getting into a crowded airport can be quite busy, but
again quite a lot of it is just responding to ATC, who have the really
heavy workload. I speak as a keen YouTube watcher, you understand. :-)

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Recliner
2020-12-08 11:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's why many airline pilots fly stunt or racing planes, or gliders as a
hobby — it's the only way they can do any 'real' flying.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-08 21:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
Thats probably a bonus - less learning.
But less rewarding as a result.
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-09 08:26:50 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.
By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.
Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-09 09:43:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.
By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.
Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?
That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.
Roland Perry
2020-12-09 10:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.
By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.
Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?
That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.
It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.
--
Roland Perry
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-09 11:03:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:16:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.
By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.
Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?
That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.
It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.
The one above the track surely.
Roland Perry
2020-12-09 13:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:16:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.
That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.
By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.
Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?
That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.
It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.
The one above the track surely.
No, that's where you don't understand how it works.
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-08 21:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-
18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.
That's not necessarily a good thing...
Post by Roland Perry
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
Exactly.

(Waterloo and City drivers also do the Central Line, btw)

Stourbridge shuttle crews are probably the most restricted on the network,
other than those who only drive in depots or yards.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-08 11:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda2d8>
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.
Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.
To other TOCs with better work.
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
Driving longer distances with fewer stops is always considered
better/easier than driving shorter distances with many stops.

Also the larger (geographically) TOCs will offer opportunities for
relocation to other depots (I'm guessing most Crossrail drivers won’t want
that right now, but might at some unspecified future point); eg I know many
ex-Paddington crew now based at
Worcester/Bristol/Swansea/Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Certes
2020-12-08 13:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Driving longer distances with fewer stops is always considered
better/easier than driving shorter distances with many stops.
Also the larger (geographically) TOCs will offer opportunities for
relocation to other depots (I'm guessing most Crossrail drivers won’t want
that right now, but might at some unspecified future point); eg I know many
ex-Paddington crew now based at
Worcester/Bristol/Swansea/Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance.
Thank you Anna; that makes a lot of sense. I'm not a driver but if the
simulators are in any way accurate then I think I could learn to start
off and keep moving as long as nothing goes wrong. The challenging bit
is getting the train to stop within walking distance of a platform.
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