Discussion:
End of Utena Re-Watch: Episode 30 [SPOILERS]
(too old to reply)
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-08 01:54:28 UTC
Permalink
I am late (but is anyone counting?) and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).

Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.

S

P

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P

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C

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Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"

"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena


So! The episode starts with Tatsuya and Wakaba--I had completely
forgotten Tatsuya ever showed up past the Black Rose arc, so this was a
nice surprise. The argument about lying to get a kiss was very cute,
and it was funny to see Wakaba so indignant.

I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car (I some how think she was not deflowered ^^) and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.

Of course, Utena's being really blockheaded through the whole episode.
I spend much of this episode wanting to scream "NO UTENA YOU IDIOT." In
part, because she's being stupidly thickheaded about admitting her
infatuation with Akio. And in part, because she's infatuated with Akio.
But she's a 14-year-old with an extremely charismatic man who so well
brings forth these ideals that Utena wants to see in him, so what can
you do? Akio, I don't like him, but he's _damn_ good at what he does.
If he were a D&D character his Charisma would be, like, a 62 (the
highest normally being 18).

And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it. I think perhaps she does put it together as the series
progresses (we'll see).

A progression of Utena's guilt cycle... the first time she makes goo
goo eyes at Akio, she then eyes Anthy and then looks extremely guilty.
Then she mentions Kanae several times as to that's not why she
shouldn't be interested. THEN she mentions her Prince several times and
insists she can't love him because she loves her prince. Another guilty
look at Anthy and then it's back to her Prince. In love with passion,
friendship, and her romantic ideal of nobility? Where does the truth
lie, o pink haired one?

Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.

Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!

Shadow play is a play on the fairy tale of the cursed red dancing
shoes, the ones that once you put on you can't take off and dance until
you collapse and die. A-Ko accepts her fate and the curse. B-Ko seems
to be the voice of common sense until we learn she carries her shoes
with her... really wanting to also fall to her dancing doom.

Is B-Ko being Utena?

Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?

The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into why
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with him--I
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes his
core beliefs. Shakes something else, maybe, but not his beliefs. Akio's
too set in his jadedness to consider another world view. But thus we
see a difference between Touga and Akio. This episode I think made me
respect Touga more the first time I saw it, or maybe at least like him
for seeing what he actually thought of someone (and then I saw what he
did to Nanami in the following episodes and forgot about this. But
that's then and this is now.)

And finally we have the Mrs. Ohtori scene. Not much to say on this
except to show that Akio is SOOOOO bad (and so good at being bad), and
that Mrs. Ohtori has really cool hair.

And that's all I can think of and look! It's time for bed. Questions,
comments, flames, love letters, and recipes all welcome.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Yasha
2005-07-08 06:25:52 UTC
Permalink
<snip show stuff, I'm too tired for more analysis, but as always your stuff
is a joy to read, DQ>

Here is a delicious recipe for you. I hope you like it.

Pears al Vino Bianco

(serves 6)

6 Bosc or Anjou pears (not too ripe)
1 1/2 cups dry white wine
1/2 cup water
3/4 cup sugar
2 strips lemon zest, about 2 inches long
1 vanilla bean

With a demitasse melon baller, working from the bottom of the pears, scoop
out the core and seeds.

In a saucepan large enough to hold all the pears upright, bring the wine,
water, sugar, lemon zest, and vanilla bean to a simmer over medium heat,
stirring until the sugar is dissolved. Add the pears and reduce the heat to
low. Cover the pan and cook, turning the pears once, for 20 minutes, or
until they are tender throughout when pierced with a small knife.

Transfer the pears to a serving dish. Turn the heat under the pan to
medium-high and cook until the syrup is thickened and golden, about 10
minutes.

Pour the syrup over the pears. Let cool slightly, then cover and chill
before serving.


Gio and I tried making this when she came up for Christmas last year, and it
was very easy and absolutely marvelous. I can't even think of anything to
watch out for while making it except to make sure the sugar syrup doesn't
burn. I strongly urge anyone who's a fan of dessert to try this someday.

Yasha

PS: I might post something with actual content later, but then again I might
leave that to Gio. She says she might also post a recipe. *grins* You said
they were welcome.
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-09 03:31:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yasha
<snip show stuff, I'm too tired for more analysis, but as always your stuff
is a joy to read, DQ>
Yer gonna give me a big head, Yasha. Really, I don't know why you can't
come up with profound insights in response to such comments as "Mrs.
Ohtori has cool hair" but ah well. ~_^
Post by Yasha
Here is a delicious recipe for you. I hope you like it.
<snip delicious recipe>

Sounds yummy. Somehow I often overlook dessert recipes that don't
involve chocolate, but this does indeed sound good. I'll have to wait
till pear season and get some from the farmer's market and try it.
Post by Yasha
PS: I might post something with actual content later, but then again I might
leave that to Gio. She says she might also post a recipe. *grins* You said
they were welcome.
What? No love letters? ;_;

^_~

She should post a recipe for Akio's cake. That way it can be on topic
at the same time. ^^

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http:/www.deathquaker.org
Yasha
2005-07-12 07:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Yasha
<snip show stuff, I'm too tired for more analysis, but as always your stuff
is a joy to read, DQ>
Yer gonna give me a big head, Yasha. Really, I don't know why you can't
come up with profound insights in response to such comments as "Mrs.
Ohtori has cool hair" but ah well. ~_^
You can tell a lot about a person from their hair, although it's hindered in
this case because it's not real hair. Mrs. Ohtori has the hair of a
fashion-conscious woman who wishes to be seen as elegant rather than
desperately gripping her youth. The cut is short, shorter than an older
woman would keep it if she were trying to seem young. It's also very styled,
though not in a way that screams hairspray. Hairspray is tacky. That tendril
falling near her face is probably perfectly curled to stay that way, though,
straight hair doesn't fall that way normally. And from what you can tell of
that cut, she's very conscious of her image, as that one would look very bad
if it wasn't kept up regularly. She probably visits a salon to keep it at
the proper length, and she'd go no more than a month apart.

As to the hair itself, it's probably thick and slightly coarse, although I'm
sure she conditions regularly, so it wouldn't be abrasive.

I can go on like this for ages, you know. F'rinstance, from my hair, one
would think at first that I didn't pay a lot of attention to it. I just clip
it back. But my hair is very fine, and if you got close enough and paid
enough attention, you'd see that I take damn good care of it and make sure
that it stays silky, I just can't be bothered to style it. So what would
that tell you about me?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Sounds yummy. Somehow I often overlook dessert recipes that don't
involve chocolate, but this does indeed sound good. I'll have to wait
till pear season and get some from the farmer's market and try it.
Have I got a recipe for you... I'll post my chocolate truffle cake when I
have time to dig up the recipe. IT IS SEX.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
What? No love letters? ;_;
^_~
I dunno, isn't it a bit early in the relationship for that? *winks*
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She should post a recipe for Akio's cake. That way it can be on topic
at the same time. ^^
We figure we don't want to make Akio's cakes, the batter in some of the art
looks too... male-generated... to really be appetizing.

Yasha
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-13 02:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yasha
You can tell a lot about a person from their hair, although it's hindered in
this case because it's not real hair. Mrs. Ohtori has the hair of a
fashion-conscious woman who wishes to be seen as elegant rather than
desperately gripping her youth. The cut is short, shorter than an older
woman would keep it if she were trying to seem young. It's also very styled,
though not in a way that screams hairspray. Hairspray is tacky. That tendril
falling near her face is probably perfectly curled to stay that way, though,
straight hair doesn't fall that way normally. And from what you can tell of
that cut, she's very conscious of her image, as that one would look very bad
if it wasn't kept up regularly. She probably visits a salon to keep it at
the proper length, and she'd go no more than a month apart.
As to the hair itself, it's probably thick and slightly coarse, although I'm
sure she conditions regularly, so it wouldn't be abrasive.
This also goes especially for her choice of jewelry. None of it is granny
stuff, but it's also not exactly what a young woman would wear. By her
clothes and hair she seems to accept her age and make the best of it.

....that said, sleeping with younger people is often motivated by a desire
to feel youthful again. I don't think it's quite what's going on here, at
least not primarily, but it's something to consider. I think Akio simply
made himself the answer to a lustless marriage, and had his age matched
hers, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if he was still able to
perform the same way.
Post by Yasha
Have I got a recipe for you... I'll post my chocolate truffle cake when I
have time to dig up the recipe. IT IS SEX.
I can vouch for this. I needed a cig after eating a slice of this stuff. I
mean my GOD.
Post by Yasha
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She should post a recipe for Akio's cake. That way it can be on topic
at the same time. ^^
If I say it's 'lemon poundcake', will anyone chuckle, snort, or groan at the
joke?
Post by Yasha
We figure we don't want to make Akio's cakes, the batter in some of the art
looks too... male-generated... to really be appetizing.
Yasha
Complain if you want, but I dare you to find another cake that can provide
one full serving of protein per slice.

I'd much rather post the recipe for the rose hip brandy jam. Unfortunately
rose hips are apparently a huge commodity because I can't find them to buy
ANYWHERE. Yes. I've tried.

Instead, I'll post the recipe for real tomato sauce. Believe it or not, mom
and I don't use fresh tomato. This is for many reasons, not the least of
which being they're awful down here. Also fresh tomato sauce is too delicate
for heavier pastas, where this one is pretty versatile.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...

If you're wondering, I do indeed have the ethnic credentials to tell other
people how to cook Italian food.

Gio
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-13 16:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Giovanna Spadaro wrote:
<snip hair>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
This also goes especially for her choice of jewelry. None of it is granny
stuff, but it's also not exactly what a young woman would wear. By her
clothes and hair she seems to accept her age and make the best of it.
....that said, sleeping with younger people is often motivated by a desire
to feel youthful again. I don't think it's quite what's going on here, at
least not primarily, but it's something to consider. I think Akio simply
made himself the answer to a lustless marriage, and had his age matched
hers, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if he was still able to
perform the same way.
*nods* I think this scene was more of a testament of even a strong
willed and well presented woman attracted to what Akio, not necessarily
youth, could offer her.

<Snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She should post a recipe for Akio's cake. That way it can be on topic
at the same time. ^^
If I say it's 'lemon poundcake', will anyone chuckle, snort, or groan at the
joke?
Well, I chuckled.

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'd much rather post the recipe for the rose hip brandy jam. Unfortunately
rose hips are apparently a huge commodity because I can't find them to buy
ANYWHERE. Yes. I've tried.
You'd be best off getting them fresh from people who have rose gardens.
I don't think they sell them, really. Although some roses produce
better rosehips than others... you want the ones that fully ripen and
change color, I think.

One day, when I can save the money I will have my own yard and lots of
roses, and you can get all the rosehips from me you want (in the fall).
^^
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Instead, I'll post the recipe for real tomato sauce. Believe it or not, mom
and I don't use fresh tomato. This is for many reasons, not the least of
which being they're awful down here. Also fresh tomato sauce is too delicate
for heavier pastas, where this one is pretty versatile.
http://ohtori.nu/Tomato-Sauce-1.gif
http://ohtori.nu/Tomato-Sauce-2.gif
Mmmmmmmm.... tomato sauce.... with lots of fresh basil....

(I am a food whore.)
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
If you're wondering, I do indeed have the ethnic credentials to tell other
people how to cook Italian food.
Really? With a name like Giovanna Spadaro? I thought you were Irish.
~_^

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-14 01:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*nods* I think this scene was more of a testament of even a strong
willed and well presented woman attracted to what Akio, not necessarily
youth, could offer her.
Definitely. In the first post you said there's not much to say about this
scene, but I couldn't possibly differ more. It's one of my favorites though,
so...bias and all.

Like you said, she's definitely a strong, assertive woman who thrives in
high society and knows and gets what she wants. In the way she dresses, does
her hair, some of her body language...it's all very clear that in any other
scene she would have been powerful and commanding. If she is simply the
dean's wife, lack of official office probably doesn't lessen her political
power in the school.

However her turn in the series is marked by a clear lack of that commanding
presence. She attempts to maintain it but her capacity to do this is crushed
very quickly. Her disposition betrays her lack of comfort from the very
beginning, but up until the last few lines, she actually does a very good
job maintaining the commanding presence of her voice, even when she's aware
she's spewing garbage.

Her being in high society tends to make me assume a basic self-centeredness
that would permit her, a mother, to sleep with her daughter's fiancee. She
seems to register betraying her husband as worse than betraying her
daughter. Akio needles her much more roughly about Kanae (going so far as to
summon up images in her mind of the sexual situations he places her daughter
in) but gets the bigger reaction at the very mention of her husband.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'd much rather post the recipe for the rose hip brandy jam.
Unfortunately
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
rose hips are apparently a huge commodity because I can't find them to buy
ANYWHERE. Yes. I've tried.
You'd be best off getting them fresh from people who have rose gardens.
I don't think they sell them, really. Although some roses produce
better rosehips than others... you want the ones that fully ripen and
change color, I think.
One day, when I can save the money I will have my own yard and lots of
roses, and you can get all the rosehips from me you want (in the fall).
^^
I'd love you forever.

Seriously I don't know where to get these things. ;_; I don't have room for
a rose garden of my own.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Mmmmmmmm.... tomato sauce.... with lots of fresh basil....
(I am a food whore.)
Don't worry, I am too.

Note: that sauce freezes very well.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
If you're wondering, I do indeed have the ethnic credentials to tell other
people how to cook Italian food.
Really? With a name like Giovanna Spadaro? I thought you were Irish.
~_^
My middle name is Providenza. The spelling is distinctly Sicilian.

That's right. There's mafia blood in me.

And people wonder where I got my thing for well-dressed powerful criminal
bastards. I mean honestly.

Gio
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-14 17:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*nods* I think this scene was more of a testament of even a strong
willed and well presented woman attracted to what Akio, not necessarily
youth, could offer her.
Definitely. In the first post you said there's not much to say about this
scene, but I couldn't possibly differ more. It's one of my favorites though,
so...bias and all.
Well, I think it was more that _I_ didn't have much to say about it...
I should note I also typed that original post out terribly rapidly when
I was about to go to sleep. ^^;;

I think I read one of your pieces on Mrs. Ohtori from awhile ago so I
might have felt I had nothing original to offer.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Like you said, she's definitely a strong, assertive woman who thrives in
high society and knows and gets what she wants. In the way she dresses, does
her hair, some of her body language...it's all very clear that in any other
scene she would have been powerful and commanding. If she is simply the
dean's wife, lack of official office probably doesn't lessen her political
power in the school.
*nods* Well, and some translations put Mr. Ohtori as the Chairman of
the Board of Trustees--i.e., not the administrator, but the Money That
Runs The School. And having seen trustee spouses at the University I
work for.... they represent the power of that money as much as the
actual trustee does. So she probably certainly does have a great deal
of power--and all the moreso since her husband is ill and she therefore
must represent him as well as herself.

She really is a lot about representation of power, anyway.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
However her turn in the series is marked by a clear lack of that commanding
presence. She attempts to maintain it but her capacity to do this is crushed
very quickly. Her disposition betrays her lack of comfort from the very
beginning, but up until the last few lines, she actually does a very good
job maintaining the commanding presence of her voice, even when she's aware
she's spewing garbage.
Because Akio doesn't respond to social illusions of power--because he
has his own power. She can't "keep up appearances" because he can get
under her skin.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Her being in high society tends to make me assume a basic self-centeredness
that would permit her, a mother, to sleep with her daughter's fiancee. She
seems to register betraying her husband as worse than betraying her
daughter. Akio needles her much more roughly about Kanae (going so far as to
summon up images in her mind of the sexual situations he places her daughter
in) but gets the bigger reaction at the very mention of her husband.
And in a way, her husband is what gives her the power she has. Perhaps
he offers her a sense of fulfillment/power the husband clearly cannot
provide.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'd much rather post the recipe for the rose hip brandy jam
Unfortunately
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
rose hips are apparently a huge commodity because I can't find them to
buy
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
ANYWHERE. Yes. I've tried.
You'd be best off getting them fresh from people who have rose gardens.
I don't think they sell them, really. Although some roses produce
better rosehips than others... you want the ones that fully ripen and
change color, I think.
One day, when I can save the money I will have my own yard and lots of
roses, and you can get all the rosehips from me you want (in the fall).
^^
I'd love you forever.
Seriously I don't know where to get these things. ;_; I don't have room for
a rose garden of my own.
It occurs to me... have you tried an herbalist or tea shop? Rosehips
are often used in herb teas.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Mmmmmmmm.... tomato sauce.... with lots of fresh basil....
(I am a food whore.)
Don't worry, I am too.
Note: that sauce freezes very well.
Good, since I live alone and always make more sauce than even I can
consume. Although I think I have some sauce I made from ages ago still
sitting in there... my freezer is often more of a "food oubliette"....
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
If you're wondering, I do indeed have the ethnic credentials to tell
other
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
people how to cook Italian food.
Really? With a name like Giovanna Spadaro? I thought you were Irish.
~_^
My middle name is Providenza. The spelling is distinctly Sicilian.
That's right. There's mafia blood in me.
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
And people wonder where I got my thing for well-dressed powerful criminal
bastards. I mean honestly.
Heh. I am half Yankee and half Eastern European (mostly Polish). Which
explains my thing for.... food cooked in butter and potatoes (and, in
fact, potatoes cooked in butter). ^^

======
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-16 03:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Well, I think it was more that _I_ didn't have much to say about it...
I should note I also typed that original post out terribly rapidly when
I was about to go to sleep. ^^;;
I think I read one of your pieces on Mrs. Ohtori from awhile ago so I
might have felt I had nothing original to offer.
I've come up with a lot to add to that essay since I wrote it, including
decent wording and grammar. I'm definitely returning to it though. Every
time I watch the scene I come up with something else.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*nods* Well, and some translations put Mr. Ohtori as the Chairman of
the Board of Trustees--i.e., not the administrator, but the Money That
Runs The School. And having seen trustee spouses at the University I
work for.... they represent the power of that money as much as the
actual trustee does. So she probably certainly does have a great deal
of power--and all the moreso since her husband is ill and she therefore
must represent him as well as herself.
She really is a lot about representation of power, anyway.
Yes. If you really wanted to dig into it (apparently I do), you could say
she represents power as we often perceive it in this world. Money talks, and
she's got money, but sometimes we forget money answers to a higher power.
Just because you have it doesn't mean you're in control of your destiny or
that there's no one capable of coming along and making the power you gain
disappear.

At the same time, it's pretty easy to assume Akio's primary interest in her,
manipulatively speaking, is access to the power she holds. So her money does
talk. It just talks to the wrong kind of man.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Because Akio doesn't respond to social illusions of power--because he
has his own power. She can't "keep up appearances" because he can get
under her skin.
Exactly. Status power doesn't impress him. When she tries to wield it, not
only does it fail, but it fails spectacularly and she baits herself.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And in a way, her husband is what gives her the power she has. Perhaps
he offers her a sense of fulfillment/power the husband clearly cannot
provide.
Well this could be many things. She may have been happily married prior to
her husband's illness, or she might have had a long string of younger,
virile lovers to satisfy her when her husband's too busy and just not
enough. The stereotype people carry of the WASP lifestyle (I know they're
not actually WASPs but they live the life.) would suggest she's the latter,
though her hesitation and discomfort with the situation she's placing
herself in suggests the former. One would think a woman accustomed to
extramarital activities would appear more comfortable. (Then again there's
the additional taboo of her specific lover and that she's doing it somewhere
she's liable to get caught...)
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'd love you forever.
Seriously I don't know where to get these things. ;_; I don't have room for
a rose garden of my own.
It occurs to me... have you tried an herbalist or tea shop? Rosehips
are often used in herb teas.
You know I don't know of any down here. Maybe there's one or two up in
Miami. I should make some calls on a slow day at work.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Good, since I live alone and always make more sauce than even I can
consume. Although I think I have some sauce I made from ages ago still
sitting in there... my freezer is often more of a "food oubliette"....
Well that's what freezers are for. ^^
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
And people wonder where I got my thing for well-dressed powerful criminal
bastards. I mean honestly.
Heh. I am half Yankee and half Eastern European (mostly Polish). Which
explains my thing for.... food cooked in butter and potatoes (and, in
fact, potatoes cooked in butter). ^^
Mmmm, potatoes. Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew....

Gio
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
======
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-17 05:47:07 UTC
Permalink
"Giovanna Spadaro" <***@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:nfSdndyFP6if4UXfRVn-***@adelphia.com...

<massive snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
I'll wager it's Huntress.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
And people wonder where I got my thing for well-dressed powerful
criminal
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
bastards. I mean honestly.
Heh. I am half Yankee and half Eastern European (mostly Polish). Which
explains my thing for.... food cooked in butter and potatoes (and, in
fact, potatoes cooked in butter). ^^
Mmmm, potatoes. Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew....
I prefer mine baked.

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-18 17:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Well, I think it was more that _I_ didn't have much to say about it...
I should note I also typed that original post out terribly rapidly when
I was about to go to sleep. ^^;;
I think I read one of your pieces on Mrs. Ohtori from awhile ago so I
might have felt I had nothing original to offer.
I've come up with a lot to add to that essay since I wrote it, including
decent wording and grammar. I'm definitely returning to it though. Every
time I watch the scene I come up with something else.
Ooh. Let us know when you post the revision.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*nods* Well, and some translations put Mr. Ohtori as the Chairman of
the Board of Trustees--i.e., not the administrator, but the Money That
Runs The School. And having seen trustee spouses at the University I
work for.... they represent the power of that money as much as the
actual trustee does. So she probably certainly does have a great deal
of power--and all the moreso since her husband is ill and she therefore
must represent him as well as herself.
She really is a lot about representation of power, anyway.
Yes. If you really wanted to dig into it (apparently I do), you could say
she represents power as we often perceive it in this world. Money talks, and
she's got money, but sometimes we forget money answers to a higher power.
Just because you have it doesn't mean you're in control of your destiny or
that there's no one capable of coming along and making the power you gain
disappear.
At the same time, it's pretty easy to assume Akio's primary interest in her,
manipulatively speaking, is access to the power she holds. So her money does
talk. It just talks to the wrong kind of man.
I think Akio is extremely good at understanding power and different
kinds of power--he knows the Ohtoris' money is power--but he knows that
it is not _ultimate_ power (something people with money like to delude
themselves into think him). He's pretty clearsighted about such things.
Except of course--about the "power" which he himself desires.

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And in a way, her husband is what gives her the power she has. Perhaps
he offers her a sense of fulfillment/power the husband clearly cannot
provide.
Well this could be many things. She may have been happily married prior to
her husband's illness, or she might have had a long string of younger,
virile lovers to satisfy her when her husband's too busy and just not
enough. The stereotype people carry of the WASP lifestyle (I know they're
not actually WASPs but they live the life.) would suggest she's the latter,
though her hesitation and discomfort with the situation she's placing
herself in suggests the former. One would think a woman accustomed to
extramarital activities would appear more comfortable. (Then again there's
the additional taboo of her specific lover and that she's doing it somewhere
she's liable to get caught...)
Well, and she may be uncomfortable _Because_ of the power Akio wields
over her. Any other affairs she might have had were likely boy toys
attracted to her wealth and power--which as we established is not
something that personally impresses Akio beyond a certain practical
point.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'd love you forever.
Seriously I don't know where to get these things. ;_; I don't have room
for
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
a rose garden of my own.
It occurs to me... have you tried an herbalist or tea shop? Rosehips
are often used in herb teas.
You know I don't know of any down here. Maybe there's one or two up in
Miami. I should make some calls on a slow day at work.
Good luck! I don't know if there's any pockets of hippieesque/artist
communities in your neck of the woods... a lot of times herbalists do
well where people purchses new agey kind of stuff.

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
Vince for some reason felt the need to answer for me, but yes, it's the
Huntress, AKA Helena Bertinelli, ill tempered mafia orphan, English
teacher, and fabulous cook.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
And people wonder where I got my thing for well-dressed powerful
criminal bastards. I mean honestly.
Heh. I am half Yankee and half Eastern European (mostly Polish). Which
explains my thing for.... food cooked in butter and potatoes (and, in
fact, potatoes cooked in butter). ^^
Mmmm, potatoes. Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew....
Fry them, stuff pierogies with them, bake them and coverthem with
stuff, make hash out of them, make gnocchi out of them.... they really
are a miracle food.

"Believe in Potatoes, and they shall know your true... cravings."

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-25 04:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Well, I think it was more that _I_ didn't have much to say about it...
I should note I also typed that original post out terribly rapidly when
I was about to go to sleep. ^^;;
I think I read one of your pieces on Mrs. Ohtori from awhile ago so I
might have felt I had nothing original to offer.
I've come up with a lot to add to that essay since I wrote it, including
decent wording and grammar. I'm definitely returning to it though. Every
time I watch the scene I come up with something else.
Ooh. Let us know when you post the revision.
Please do! Of course, I know to be patient for Gio to return to posting.

<Great discussion of Akio and his relationship with Mrs. Ohtori read,
enjoyed, and snipped>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
Vince for some reason felt the need to answer for me,
Sorry, just showing off and being impatient.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
but yes, it's the
Huntress, AKA Helena Bertinelli, ill tempered mafia orphan, English
teacher, and fabulous cook.
W00T!

Yes, we really do share the same taste in fantasy women!

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-26 14:11:35 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
Vince for some reason felt the need to answer for me,
Sorry, just showing off and being impatient.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
but yes, it's the
Huntress, AKA Helena Bertinelli, ill tempered mafia orphan, English
teacher, and fabulous cook.
W00T!
Yes, we really do share the same taste in fantasy women!
Oh, so you want to be the Huntress when you grow up too?

;)

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-27 02:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Cool. You and my favorite comic book character.
...being who?
Vince for some reason felt the need to answer for me,
Sorry, just showing off and being impatient.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
but yes, it's the
Huntress, AKA Helena Bertinelli, ill tempered mafia orphan, English
teacher, and fabulous cook.
W00T!
Yes, we really do share the same taste in fantasy women!
Oh, so you want to be the Huntress when you grow up too?
;)
LOL!

No, but I'd date her.

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-13 16:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yasha
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Yasha
<snip show stuff, I'm too tired for more analysis, but as always your
stuff
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Yasha
is a joy to read, DQ>
Yer gonna give me a big head, Yasha. Really, I don't know why you can't
come up with profound insights in response to such comments as "Mrs.
Ohtori has cool hair" but ah well. ~_^
You can tell a lot about a person from their hair, although it's hindered in
this case because it's not real hair. Mrs. Ohtori has the hair of a
fashion-conscious woman who wishes to be seen as elegant rather than
desperately gripping her youth. The cut is short, shorter than an older
woman would keep it if she were trying to seem young. It's also very styled,
though not in a way that screams hairspray. Hairspray is tacky. That tendril
falling near her face is probably perfectly curled to stay that way, though,
straight hair doesn't fall that way normally. And from what you can tell of
that cut, she's very conscious of her image, as that one would look very bad
if it wasn't kept up regularly. She probably visits a salon to keep it at
the proper length, and she'd go no more than a month apart.
As to the hair itself, it's probably thick and slightly coarse, although I'm
sure she conditions regularly, so it wouldn't be abrasive.
I can go on like this for ages, you know. F'rinstance, from my hair, one
would think at first that I didn't pay a lot of attention to it. I just clip
it back. But my hair is very fine, and if you got close enough and paid
enough attention, you'd see that I take damn good care of it and make sure
that it stays silky, I just can't be bothered to style it. So what would
that tell you about me?
.... you're low maintenance but still treat yourself well????

Dunno. Wow. I never thought of analyzing someone through their hair.
*NEON light over DQ's head blinking TOMBOY* It makes sense though (I
always did think Jury's hair spoke volumes about her).

So according to my hair, I'm omnivorous and ... um... washed in
overpriced shampoo... and respond poorly to humidity despite said
overpriced shampoo (WHY do I live in Baltimore again?)and am badly in
need of um... cutting...
Post by Yasha
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Sounds yummy. Somehow I often overlook dessert recipes that don't
involve chocolate, but this does indeed sound good. I'll have to wait
till pear season and get some from the farmer's market and try it.
Have I got a recipe for you... I'll post my chocolate truffle cake when I
have time to dig up the recipe. IT IS SEX.
..... mmmm..... chocolate truffle cake............ *drools*
Post by Yasha
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
What? No love letters? ;_;
^_~
I dunno, isn't it a bit early in the relationship for that? *winks*
Sorry. Is it my turn to send candy and flowers? ~_^
Post by Yasha
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She should post a recipe for Akio's cake. That way it can be on topic
at the same time. ^^
We figure we don't want to make Akio's cakes, the batter in some of the art
looks too... male-generated... to really be appetizing.
I did not need that mental image.

*read up a few lines to "chocolate truffle cake."

Aah. Much better.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Kevin Trainor
2005-07-11 02:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I am late (but is anyone counting?) and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
I can't stand to watch this episode myself; it has that overwhelming
sense of WRONG about it. Still, it's part of the Arc so I suppose I
ought to shut up and soldier through it.

Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"

UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-11 19:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Trainor
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I am late (but is anyone counting?) and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
I can't stand to watch this episode myself; it has that overwhelming
sense of WRONG about it. Still, it's part of the Arc so I suppose I
ought to shut up and soldier through it.
Well, I highly suggest watching 70s era Lynda Carter as an antidote
after watching. ^_^ But that's just me.

You don't _have_ to, you know.

But, if people don't have time to respond, I'm probably going to stop
posting these. I'm all about generating the discussion, but if no one
wants to discuss, I should put my time into updating the FAQ and
finishing the series on my own, sans analysis, so I can finish my
fanfic.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
shanejayell
2005-07-11 23:01:46 UTC
Permalink
AS a side note does Mrs. Ohtori have a NAME? I'm trying to feature her in a
fic but her namelessness is a bit of a problem....
m***@winternet.com
2005-07-12 03:14:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by shanejayell
AS a side note does Mrs. Ohtori have a NAME? I'm trying to feature her in a
fic but her namelessness is a bit of a problem....
We never learn her name in the series. In his fanfic "Jacquemart", Alan
Harnum named her Hoshimi. That's the only name granting I've run across.

Laurie
-- Saionji's Prince and Keeper
***@winternet.com
http://www.winternet.com/~milo
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-12 04:24:40 UTC
Permalink
I do absolutely intend to participate in this discussion. It'll just take
some time since I'm up to my neck in schoolwork, none of which involves
inverted castles and hot deans. For what I pay to spend every waking moment
I'm not at my job doing schoolwork...

....I could finish getting the damned SKU DVDs. >.<
Post by Kevin Trainor
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I am late (but is anyone counting?) and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
I can't stand to watch this episode myself; it has that overwhelming
sense of WRONG about it. Still, it's part of the Arc so I suppose I
ought to shut up and soldier through it.
Wow, people don't seem to care much for this episode. I can't say I'm
surprised, though I admit it's one of my absolute favorites. I might,
perhaps, be watching it from the perspective of the wrong character.

Gio
Post by Kevin Trainor
Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"
UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-13 16:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I do absolutely intend to participate in this discussion. It'll just take
some time since I'm up to my neck in schoolwork, none of which involves
inverted castles and hot deans. For what I pay to spend every waking moment
I'm not at my job doing schoolwork...
....I could finish getting the damned SKU DVDs. >.<
Post by Kevin Trainor
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I am late (but is anyone counting?) and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
I can't stand to watch this episode myself; it has that overwhelming
sense of WRONG about it. Still, it's part of the Arc so I suppose I
ought to shut up and soldier through it.
Wow, people don't seem to care much for this episode. I can't say I'm
surprised, though I admit it's one of my absolute favorites. I might,
perhaps, be watching it from the perspective of the wrong character.
Heh. ^^ Well, Kevin and I could be watching it from the wrong
perspective, on the other hand. ^^

If you've the time, I for one would love to hear your thoughts on it.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Kevin Trainor
2005-07-15 12:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Giovanna Spadaro wrote:
<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by Kevin Trainor
I can't stand to watch this episode myself; it has that overwhelming
sense of WRONG about it. Still, it's part of the Arc so I suppose I
ought to shut up and soldier through it.
Wow, people don't seem to care much for this episode. I can't say I'm
surprised, though I admit it's one of my absolute favorites. I might,
perhaps, be watching it from the perspective of the wrong character.
That would be my guess. ^^

For me, it's a real train wreck of an episode...I find myself yelling
at the screen or hiding my eyes because I really really don't want to
see Utena going down this particular road.
--
Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"

UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-13 05:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I am late (but is anyone counting?)
I'm hardly in a position to complain. I wrote that I had more notes for
this episode than both of the Ruka eps. more than 2 weeks ago and I'm only
posting now.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and I'm only bringing up one
episode. This is in part because I've been running around like a
madwoman this week, and in part because every time I watch this episode
I feel sort of nauseous and violated
When your stomach settles down, have a cookie. You'll feel better.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
Heh, heh. Naga and now Lynda Carter. You're a sucker for statuesque women
in skimpy outfits, aren't you? Ever thought of what Juri would look like in
a swimsuit?

That's OK. You and I share similar taste in our fantasy women. I suppose
if we were ever at a con together, we'd compare notes on the same
cosplayers.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena
And Utena first sees the Akio Car as...Akio's Car!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
So! The episode starts with Tatsuya and Wakaba--I had completely
forgotten Tatsuya ever showed up past the Black Rose arc, so this was a
nice surprise. The argument about lying to get a kiss was very cute,
and it was funny to see Wakaba so indignant.
I missed that! Darn. Well, that's why were watching this "together"!

BTW, the episode script on ohtori.nu doesn't even credit him as Tatsuya,
just "guy".
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio Car"
usually means!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I some how think she was not deflowered ^^)
Um, no. For once, "Riding in the Akio Car" doesn't have quite the effect it
usually does. Gee, does that mean that Wakaba shares something with Jury?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Of course, Utena's being really blockheaded through the whole episode.
I spend much of this episode wanting to scream "NO UTENA YOU IDIOT."
You make it sound like you're watching a horror film...or a train wreck.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
In
part, because she's being stupidly thickheaded about admitting her
infatuation with Akio. And in part, because she's infatuated with Akio.
But she's a 14-year-old with an extremely charismatic man who so well
brings forth these ideals that Utena wants to see in him, so what can
you do? Akio, I don't like him, but he's _damn_ good at what he does.
The first line of his that struck me was "Typically wicked girl's plots,
eh?" Yeah, Akio should know from wicked!

Also, Akio seems to be quite the leg man.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
If he were a D&D character his Charisma would be, like, a 62 (the
highest normally being 18).
Snort. At least with the version of Dieties and Demigods (AKA Myths and
Magic) that I own from the transition between 1st and 2nd edition D&D,
godlike charisma starts at 19 and stops at 25. I'd give him a 20,
appropriate for a demigod.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it.
One of the points I remember from the Utena panel at C-kon 2 years ago was
that the show has a "Land of the Lotus Eaters" feel to it. A lot of what
propels the action is that people forget what happened earlier. In
particular, the lack of pupils in the eyes makes the characters look
drugged.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the power of fogetfulness is impeding
Utena. It certainly does later in the series.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think perhaps she does put it together as the series
progresses (we'll see).
A progression of Utena's guilt cycle... the first time she makes goo
goo eyes at Akio, she then eyes Anthy and then looks extremely guilty.
Then she mentions Kanae several times as to that's not why she
shouldn't be interested. THEN she mentions her Prince several times and
insists she can't love him because she loves her prince. Another guilty
look at Anthy and then it's back to her Prince. In love with passion,
friendship, and her romantic ideal of nobility? Where does the truth
lie, o pink haired one?
She doesn't know yet. BTW, she asks Anthy the same question twice "Come to
think of it, do you have anybody you love?" Anthy answers "yes" and, at
least in the ohtori.nu script, also says "A prince". Hmm.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and saying
"Buh-bye!"

BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Shadow play is a play on the fairy tale of the cursed red dancing
shoes, the ones that once you put on you can't take off and dance until
you collapse and die. A-Ko accepts her fate and the curse. B-Ko seems
to be the voice of common sense until we learn she carries her shoes
with her... really wanting to also fall to her dancing doom.
That segment was just freaky. However, I can now see the connection between
SKU and Excel Saga. Both of them were animated by the same company--J. C.
Staff.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Is B-Ko being Utena?
We'll see now, won't we?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into why
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with him--I
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes his
core beliefs.
Well, he certainly complimented Utena for her iconoclastic style in front of
the teacher and assistant principal. He'll at least say such things, even
if he doesn't believe them.

Also, it's interesting to see that Utena is the captain of the school
basketball team--the BOYS school team!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Shakes something else, maybe, but not his beliefs.
Huh, huh. I feel a Beavis and Butt-Head moment coming on.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio's
too set in his jadedness to consider another world view. But thus we
see a difference between Touga and Akio. This episode I think made me
respect Touga more the first time I saw it, or maybe at least like him
for seeing what he actually thought of someone (and then I saw what he
did to Nanami in the following episodes and forgot about this. But
that's then and this is now.)
And finally we have the Mrs. Ohtori scene. Not much to say on this
except to show that Akio is SOOOOO bad (and so good at being bad), and
that Mrs. Ohtori has really cool hair.
Here's what I wrote:

Utena is very gracious to Kanae, even after duelling her. Of course, Kanae
has no clue, having forgotten everything from the Black Rose Arc.

And the MILF arrives!

Akio, you bozo, you can't name a comet after someone else. Comets are named
after their discoverer, i.e., YOU! Come to think of it, Comet Ohtori 1 has
a nice ring to it. Oh, wait, that might work, as Ohtori is her name, too.
Maybe he's cleverer than I thought.

H.A. Rey's version of The Twins is shown in the preview for next week's
episode. That's interesting. Every time I see constellations in anime,
they're H.A. Rey's, not the traditional versions of other star atlases. The
end credits of either the Tenchi Muyo OVA or Magical Project S have Ryo-ohki
looking at the constellations until a carrot appears in the sky.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And that's all I can think of and look! It's time for bed. Questions,
They're there.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
comments,
Lots.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
flames,
Nah.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
love letters,
Sorry, I can't channel Juri or Shiori. Besides, I'm taken and my girlfriend
googles!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and recipes all welcome.
You certainly got the recipes. Anyone for an Akio cake recipe?

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-13 17:04:06 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
Heh, heh. Naga and now Lynda Carter. You're a sucker for statuesque women
in skimpy outfits, aren't you?
Well, Lynda Carter-as-Wonder Woman was my hero when I was four years
old. I watch it primarily for nostalgia and warm fuzzies. I mean, of
course she is attractive and can't say I don't look at her (or the
gorgeous Alex Ross Wonder Woman poster on my living room wall), but I
can't say I've ever really fantasized about her. OTOH, perhaps she
imprinted in my young brain the ideal of STRONG PRETTY WOMAN and thus
my primal brain responds "HALF NAKED AMAZON GOOD. WANT! WANT!" when
seeing such a type of person.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Ever thought of what Juri would look like in a swimsuit?
Stop trying to distract me. But I did start a quick sketch on the bus
this morning, since you mentioned it.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
That's OK. You and I share similar taste in our fantasy women. I suppose
if we were ever at a con together, we'd compare notes on the same
cosplayers.
Well, come to Otakon next year. ^^
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
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L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena
And Utena first sees the Akio Car as...Akio's Car!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
So! The episode starts with Tatsuya and Wakaba--I had completely
forgotten Tatsuya ever showed up past the Black Rose arc, so this was a
nice surprise. The argument about lying to get a kiss was very cute,
and it was funny to see Wakaba so indignant.
I missed that! Darn. Well, that's why were watching this "together"!
BTW, the episode script on ohtori.nu doesn't even credit him as Tatsuya,
just "guy".
I'm pretty sure it was him... he has rather distinctive sort of round
hair.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio Car"
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.

She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I some how think she was not deflowered ^^)
Um, no. For once, "Riding in the Akio Car" doesn't have quite the effect it
usually does. Gee, does that mean that Wakaba shares something with Jury?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Of course, Utena's being really blockheaded through the whole episode.
I spend much of this episode wanting to scream "NO UTENA YOU IDIOT."
You make it sound like you're watching a horror film...or a train wreck.
Do I really? ^^ I guess so. "No, don't open that door!" kind of thing.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
In
part, because she's being stupidly thickheaded about admitting her
infatuation with Akio. And in part, because she's infatuated with Akio.
But she's a 14-year-old with an extremely charismatic man who so well
brings forth these ideals that Utena wants to see in him, so what can
you do? Akio, I don't like him, but he's _damn_ good at what he does.
The first line of his that struck me was "Typically wicked girl's plots,
eh?" Yeah, Akio should know from wicked!
Also, Akio seems to be quite the leg man.
More of a foot fetisher, I think.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
If he were a D&D character his Charisma would be, like, a 62 (the
highest normally being 18).
Snort. At least with the version of Dieties and Demigods (AKA Myths and
Magic) that I own from the transition between 1st and 2nd edition D&D,
godlike charisma starts at 19 and stops at 25. I'd give him a 20,
appropriate for a demigod.
It goes ad infinitum in the current version, but no one but gods have
anything higher than say a 24 or so. The Forgotten Realms Goddess of
Love, an extremely powerful Greater Deity who can charm anyone she
looks at, has a Charisma of 56, IIRC.

I was still exaggerating on Akio's part, but you get the idea.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it.
One of the points I remember from the Utena panel at C-kon 2 years ago was
that the show has a "Land of the Lotus Eaters" feel to it. A lot of what
propels the action is that people forget what happened earlier. In
particular, the lack of pupils in the eyes makes the characters look
drugged.
An interesting idea. I think I said once the whole show has a feel of
"faded memory" to it... some pieces are missing or out of place...
others feel like a dream.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the power of fogetfulness is impeding
Utena. It certainly does later in the series.
An important episode coming up, I think.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think perhaps she does put it together as the series
progresses (we'll see).
A progression of Utena's guilt cycle... the first time she makes goo
goo eyes at Akio, she then eyes Anthy and then looks extremely guilty.
Then she mentions Kanae several times as to that's not why she
shouldn't be interested. THEN she mentions her Prince several times and
insists she can't love him because she loves her prince. Another guilty
look at Anthy and then it's back to her Prince. In love with passion,
friendship, and her romantic ideal of nobility? Where does the truth
lie, o pink haired one?
She doesn't know yet. BTW, she asks Anthy the same question twice "Come to
think of it, do you have anybody you love?" Anthy answers "yes" and, at
least in the ohtori.nu script, also says "A prince". Hmm.
Yep. In the DVD she says, "I too have a prince," or something along
those lines (sub and dub lines are same in this, as it's a voice over
shot).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and saying
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
*shrug*

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into why
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with him--I
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes his
core beliefs.
Well, he certainly complimented Utena for her iconoclastic style in front of
the teacher and assistant principal. He'll at least say such things, even
if he doesn't believe them.
I think he does believe in some level of rebelling against the status
quo... or more against people who enforce the rules simply because
they're rules.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Also, it's interesting to see that Utena is the captain of the school
basketball team--the BOYS school team!
I wonder if that's a translation error. I saw the subtitle "Captain!"
but heard "Tenjou!" I think someone mistook it for "Bujo."

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio's
too set in his jadedness to consider another world view. But thus we
see a difference between Touga and Akio. This episode I think made me
respect Touga more the first time I saw it, or maybe at least like him
for seeing what he actually thought of someone (and then I saw what he
did to Nanami in the following episodes and forgot about this. But
that's then and this is now.)
And finally we have the Mrs. Ohtori scene. Not much to say on this
except to show that Akio is SOOOOO bad (and so good at being bad), and
that Mrs. Ohtori has really cool hair.
Utena is very gracious to Kanae, even after duelling her. Of course, Kanae
has no clue, having forgotten everything from the Black Rose Arc.
Utena _can't remember_ that she duelled Kanae. But IIRC at the time
believed it wasn't her (or Kozue or Shiori or Mitsuru or Wakaba or
Keiko's) fault for duelling her. She in fact feels sorry for all of
them. And most of those people she likes... the only possible exception
being perhaps Kozue (who was blatantly pissy toward Utena since the
beginning).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Akio, you bozo, you can't name a comet after someone else. Comets are named
after their discoverer, i.e., YOU! Come to think of it, Comet Ohtori 1 has
a nice ring to it. Oh, wait, that might work, as Ohtori is her name, too.
Maybe he's cleverer than I thought.
Akio I am sure was offering it as a romantic notion and cares little
for scientific convention.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
H.A. Rey's version of The Twins is shown in the preview for next week's
episode. That's interesting. Every time I see constellations in anime,
they're H.A. Rey's, not the traditional versions of other star atlases.
Probably because for a visual medium, it's easier to pick out the shape
the constellation is supposed to represent.

Hmmm... I've been playing Katamari Demacy (EVIL ADDICTIVE GAME)... I'll
have to see if the constellation shapes they use are Rey's or the
traditional?

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And that's all I can think of and look! It's time for bed. Questions,
They're there.
Yay!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
comments,
Lots.
Woohoo!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
flames,
Nah.
Phew!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
love letters,
Sorry, I can't channel Juri or Shiori. Besides, I'm taken and my girlfriend
googles!
Ah well. Heh, I'd love to see the kind of "love letter" Jury would send
me.

Jury: I'm wrapping it around this brick right now.

See? ^^
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and recipes all welcome.
You certainly got the recipes. Anyone for an Akio cake recipe?
Yasha pointed out why not, and I'll accept that. Although Gio's pound
cake sounds tempting regardless.

I think I'll just hold out for Yasha's Chocolate Truffle Cake....
mmm...... with Swimsuit Jury on top.... mmmmm......

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-14 21:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio Car"
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.
She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Yep. She seems very aware that she hasn't got a chance in hell with Akio.
(And doesn't want one, really. She seems to enjoy him for crushs sake.)
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
Yep. She's the fool for the series' resident fool.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
The first line of his that struck me was "Typically wicked girl's plots,
eh?" Yeah, Akio should know from wicked!
Also, Akio seems to be quite the leg man.
More of a foot fetisher, I think.
I saw no convincing evidence of a foot fetish. I just saw someone taking
brutal advantage of the state that positioning puts women in.

Someone with a true foot fetish would have been _looking_ at the feet
they're touching. Akio's always looking at the woman's face. There's a
fetish in play here, but touching feet is only the vehicle to satisfying the
true interest--seeing people in psychologically stressful states.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
It goes ad infinitum in the current version, but no one but gods have
anything higher than say a 24 or so. The Forgotten Realms Goddess of
Love, an extremely powerful Greater Deity who can charm anyone she
looks at, has a Charisma of 56, IIRC.
I was still exaggerating on Akio's part, but you get the idea.
Oh I see. This is a nerd contest.

Well I can tell you Akio would be a dark elf enchanter in Everquest. His
specialty would be mob control and he'd charge a fortune for buffing.

Also, his clothing would be color-coordinated and he'd refuse to wear a
helmet, even at cost to his defense and stat scores, which naturally would
be through the roof anyway. Especially INT, and for some inexplicable reason
(as it's not necessary for chanters), DEX.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
A progression of Utena's guilt cycle... the first time she makes goo
goo eyes at Akio, she then eyes Anthy and then looks extremely guilty.
Then she mentions Kanae several times as to that's not why she
shouldn't be interested. THEN she mentions her Prince several times and
insists she can't love him because she loves her prince. Another guilty
look at Anthy and then it's back to her Prince. In love with passion,
friendship, and her romantic ideal of nobility? Where does the truth
lie, o pink haired one?
Bless her, she tries.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
#348265762345264 in the Akio Isn't Talking About What The Other Character
Thinks He's Talking About series.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and saying
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
I'm of the camp that believes without question that Akio is completely
incapable of love or even genuine affection. Perhaps he never was, even when
he was Dios. I'll argue that some other time, since I recall that opinion
being strongly contested the last time I spoke of it. ^_^

But that said, I think Anthy's pissed that her playtoys are so busy with
each other. A bit jealous. At the moment she's not the center of attention
for either of them. I think she might also kinda consider Utena her property
and not Akio's. This is something Akio seems to feed quite on purpose in the
last episode. He wants her to feel like she handed Utena over to him to let
him do his bidding. Because it's a terrible thing to do, and it's imperative
to Akio's goals that Anthy believe her hands are every bit as dirty as his.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
Anthy. Gendo's glasses of doom posture is one of deep thought. I feel safer
with someone who I know is thinking logically than I do with someone who is
liable to act out of spite or jealousy.

This is a bad assumption to make, of course, since just because he looks
thoughtful and logical doesn't mean he is.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
Phallic symbols.

Just kidding.

....or am I?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into why
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with him--I
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes his
core beliefs.
If anything, she reinforces them. After all, what does he plan to do with
Utena? Break a prince. That's a concept near and dear to Akio's cold,
lifeless heart.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think he does believe in some level of rebelling against the status
quo... or more against people who enforce the rules simply because
they're rules.
Yes, I think there's some of that. I think it might have much to do with
knowing the world hates him mostly out of a pack mentality. Akio savors the
pain betrayed in how people would hate him if they knew him. It's less fun
if they hate him simply because everyone else does.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Mother I'd Like to Fu**
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Akio, you bozo, you can't name a comet after someone else. Comets are named
after their discoverer, i.e., YOU! Come to think of it, Comet Ohtori 1 has
a nice ring to it. Oh, wait, that might work, as Ohtori is her name, too.
Comets pass in elliptical orbits around larger bodies. They show up for a
while, light up the sky, and then disappear and that generation forgets they
ever existed.

Akio is no comet.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio I am sure was offering it as a romantic notion and cares little
for scientific convention.
I have a feeling Akio referred to the stars specifically because Mrs.Ohtori
is aware he doesn't give a rat's ass about them.

Gio
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-15 04:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely
rides
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio
Car"
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.
She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Yep. She seems very aware that she hasn't got a chance in hell with Akio.
(And doesn't want one, really. She seems to enjoy him for crushs sake.)
*nods* Wakaba's looking for some fun.

Between her nagging Tatsuya and play-flirting w/ Akio, we can guess
she's over Saionji by now...
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
Yep. She's the fool for the series' resident fool.
It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
The first line of his that struck me was "Typically wicked girl's plots,
eh?" Yeah, Akio should know from wicked!
Also, Akio seems to be quite the leg man.
More of a foot fetisher, I think.
I saw no convincing evidence of a foot fetish. I just saw someone taking
brutal advantage of the state that positioning puts women in.
Someone with a true foot fetish would have been _looking_ at the feet
they're touching. Akio's always looking at the woman's face. There's a
fetish in play here, but touching feet is only the vehicle to satisfying the
true interest--seeing people in psychologically stressful states.
You know, in all honesty, I wans't thinking about it that hard. ^^

I agree however that your last statement--yes that is his fetish, I
think.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
It goes ad infinitum in the current version, but no one but gods have
anything higher than say a 24 or so. The Forgotten Realms Goddess of
Love, an extremely powerful Greater Deity who can charm anyone she
looks at, has a Charisma of 56, IIRC.
I was still exaggerating on Akio's part, but you get the idea.
Oh I see. This is a nerd contest.
No. A nerd _contest_ would be, "MY character has a Charisma of 62! Give
me one reason why you shouldn't like me!" "Because MY character has a
Wisdom of 63."

This is just nerd babble. ^^
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Well I can tell you Akio would be a dark elf enchanter in Everquest. His
specialty would be mob control and he'd charge a fortune for buffing.
Also, his clothing would be color-coordinated and he'd refuse to wear a
helmet, even at cost to his defense and stat scores, which naturally would
be through the roof anyway. Especially INT, and for some inexplicable reason
(as it's not necessary for chanters), DEX.
I stay faaaaaar away from MMORPGS for my own good, but from what I can
suss you're saying, I can see it.

Akio would make a good dark elf in various genres. And not one of those
wimpy "reformed" ones you see in many RPGs these days....

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
#348265762345264 in the Akio Isn't Talking About What The Other Character
Thinks He's Talking About series.
Well yeah, but I was talking about from Utena's perspective.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and
saying
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
I'm of the camp that believes without question that Akio is completely
incapable of love or even genuine affection. Perhaps he never was, even when
he was Dios. I'll argue that some other time, since I recall that opinion
being strongly contested the last time I spoke of it. ^_^
I missed that one. Sounds interesting. I guess it largely depends on
what your opinion of what Dios is.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
But that said, I think Anthy's pissed that her playtoys are so busy with
each other. A bit jealous. At the moment she's not the center of attention
for either of them. I think she might also kinda consider Utena her property
and not Akio's. This is something Akio seems to feed quite on purpose in the
last episode. He wants her to feel like she handed Utena over to him to let
him do his bidding. Because it's a terrible thing to do, and it's imperative
to Akio's goals that Anthy believe her hands are every bit as dirty as his.
Hmmm... I never really thought of Anthy considering Utena her property
(I think she does think of Akio that way--and simultaneously sees
herself as his, although she has more control than she lets on). But I
agree with the "he wants her to feel like she handed Utena over him..."
part. I think at this point in the story Anthy doesn't really know what
to _do_ with Utena. Part of her is genuinely fond of her. Part of her
still sees her as a tool for her and/or Akio's plans.

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
Phallic symbols.
Just kidding.
....or am I?
Well, they seem very much linked to Utena's giving in to her feelings.
So if they're phallic symbols, is it Utena letting go of her
"masculinity"? Her "princeness"? To become the Princess of Akio?
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into
why
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with
him--I
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes
his
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
core beliefs.
If anything, she reinforces them. After all, what does he plan to do with
Utena? Break a prince. That's a concept near and dear to Akio's cold,
lifeless heart.
So perhaps she does not shake his beliefs until the afterword (or
perhaps it's anthy that does the shaking)
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think he does believe in some level of rebelling against the status
quo... or more against people who enforce the rules simply because
they're rules.
Yes, I think there's some of that. I think it might have much to do with
knowing the world hates him mostly out of a pack mentality. Akio savors the
pain betrayed in how people would hate him if they knew him. It's less fun
if they hate him simply because everyone else does.
Does the world hate him? It doesn't seem that way. Or is that most
people flirt or kiss up to him--because they have to?
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Mother I'd Like to Fu**
*eyebrows up* Okay then! Well, I was off. ^^ I think I've seen some
people use that more than they should. ^^;;;

<snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio I am sure was offering it as a romantic notion and cares little
for scientific convention.
I have a feeling Akio referred to the stars specifically because Mrs.Ohtori
is aware he doesn't give a rat's ass about them.
Ah, so he is saying he actually doesn't give a rat's ass about Kanae,
then?

And this seems to turn Mrs. Ohtori on....

Yes, there is a lot to that scene.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Kevin Trainor
2005-07-15 12:20:34 UTC
Permalink
***@deathquaker.org wrote:
<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Mother I'd Like to Fu**
*eyebrows up* Okay then! Well, I was off. ^^ I think I've seen some
people use that more than they should. ^^;;;
It tends to get misused as a synonym for "hot older woman".
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
--
Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"

UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
Giovanna Spadaro
2005-07-16 03:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
S
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Yep. She seems very aware that she hasn't got a chance in hell with Akio.
(And doesn't want one, really. She seems to enjoy him for crushs sake.)
*nods* Wakaba's looking for some fun.
Between her nagging Tatsuya and play-flirting w/ Akio, we can guess
she's over Saionji by now...
Or she's overcompensating.

She's young though, so she's probably just over him. Of course, replacing
Saionji with Akio makes me worry that she might have a bloodhound's nose for
abusive men...
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I saw no convincing evidence of a foot fetish. I just saw someone taking
brutal advantage of the state that positioning puts women in.
Someone with a true foot fetish would have been _looking_ at the feet
they're touching. Akio's always looking at the woman's face. There's a
fetish in play here, but touching feet is only the vehicle to satisfying the
true interest--seeing people in psychologically stressful states.
You know, in all honesty, I wans't thinking about it that hard. ^^
Yasha and I have gone into way more detail on such subjects than is really
appropriate. There are acres of chatlogs.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I agree however that your last statement--yes that is his fetish, I
think.
He's a true sadist. Too picky to be satisfied with willing physical
submission or BDSM. Those are games to him, they have safe words and the
submissive party consents to and knows exactly what will happen. Yawn.
Akio's taste is for emotional pain and stress. Schadenfreude. Sometimes it
amuses him. Gentle proddings at someone's psyche meant not to hurt but to
disarm. Sometimes it sexually arouses him. Nabbing Touga about how his
little princess has been broken? That was a sexual indulgence for him.

Above and beyond that he seems to have a specific fondness for conflict. The
battle in Utena's mind between prince and princess pleases him terribly,
much more so than Juri's constant deep depression and Miki's bad familial
situation. The whole cast is conflicted, but Akio seems to particularly
savor the most conflicted characters.

As for feet...if Akio pays inordinate attention to a woman's feet, it's not
him you need to ask about having the fetish. ^^
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
No. A nerd _contest_ would be, "MY character has a Charisma of 62! Give
me one reason why you shouldn't like me!" "Because MY character has a
Wisdom of 63."
This is just nerd babble. ^^
Aww, I thought the goal was to be more rabidly nerdy than anyone else.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I stay faaaaaar away from MMORPGS for my own good, but from what I can
suss you're saying, I can see it.
You're wise. I miss EQ terribly and would absorb myself for months in it at
the drop of a hat if I could.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio would make a good dark elf in various genres. And not one of those
wimpy "reformed" ones you see in many RPGs these days....
<snip>
Yeah, Akio might be a coward but he's not a wimp.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I'm of the camp that believes without question that Akio is completely
incapable of love or even genuine affection. Perhaps he never was, even when
he was Dios. I'll argue that some other time, since I recall that opinion
being strongly contested the last time I spoke of it. ^_^
I missed that one. Sounds interesting. I guess it largely depends on
what your opinion of what Dios is.
Well I meant just insofar as Akio. I've never argued that Dios is incapable
of love and affection, though just thinking about it, it does follow from
how I reason out Akio's lack of it.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Hmmm... I never really thought of Anthy considering Utena her property
I don't think she really does. She's being possessive of something she knows
isn't really hers. But at the same time, she's at the point in the series
where she's starting to think Utena _should_ be hers, as opposed to her
brother's.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I think she does think of Akio that way--and simultaneously sees
herself as his, although she has more control than she lets on). But I
agree with the "he wants her to feel like she handed Utena over him..."
part. I think at this point in the story Anthy doesn't really know what
to _do_ with Utena. Part of her is genuinely fond of her. Part of her
still sees her as a tool for her and/or Akio's plans.
Yes. The problem for her arises when she stops seeing Utena as a passing
thing. She's trained herself not to care when people come and go, but she
doesn't really want to let go of Utena. I don't think it really dawns on her
that she likes Utena until she's forced to consider Utena not being around.
Like in episode 25, when Saionji's about to win the duel and she throws it
for Utena.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Phallic symbols.
Just kidding.
....or am I?
Well, they seem very much linked to Utena's giving in to her feelings.
So if they're phallic symbols, is it Utena letting go of her
"masculinity"? Her "princeness"? To become the Princess of Akio?
Makes sense to me.

Also it's worth pointing out that these candles are, one by one, going out,
as she realizes more and more that she's in love with Akio. Usually the
metaphor of love is a flame being lit. Almost like they're telling you she
isn't so much in love with Akio as falling out of love with Dios. (She's
attracted to Akio, clearly, but I don't think she actually falls in love
with him. She breaks out of it too easily and quickly for it to be the real
thing...but then it wasn't supposed to be.)
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
If anything, she reinforces them. After all, what does he plan to do with
Utena? Break a prince. That's a concept near and dear to Akio's cold,
lifeless heart.
So perhaps she does not shake his beliefs until the afterword (or
perhaps it's anthy that does the shaking)
I don't think Utena made a shred of difference in Akio's outlook or life.
And as far as his beliefs, Anthy doesn't change anything either. I don't
think his personality or ambitions will change without Anthy. He'll either
die without her to take the swords, or he'll manage to continue in the same
coffin he's been in all along.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Does the world hate him? It doesn't seem that way. Or is that most
people flirt or kiss up to him--because they have to?
I'm sorry, I was being vague. I mean the hatred they've cultivated for the
once-prince that betrayed them. Person to person people feel about him
however he wants them to feel, though he never does entirely shed the idea
of being a sinful element in a person's life. He likes to be that challenge
to their moral structure.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*eyebrows up* Okay then! Well, I was off. ^^ I think I've seen some
people use that more than they should. ^^;;;
Wow, I'm kinda shocked. I hear it so often...
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I have a feeling Akio referred to the stars specifically because Mrs.Ohtori
is aware he doesn't give a rat's ass about them.
Ah, so he is saying he actually doesn't give a rat's ass about Kanae,
then?
Pretty much. He's grouping his fiancee in with something Mrs.Ohtori already
knows he cares nothing for.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And this seems to turn Mrs. Ohtori on....
I don't know that it turns her on. I think she was turned on to begin with
and Akio's just being a bastard.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Yes, there is a lot to that scene.
There is. I should sit down some time and compare it to the scene in that
episode with Utena. They way they're constructed and in the same episode
makes me think you're supposed to parallel them. Off the top of my head they
seem to show where Akio's true seductive talents are. Dios, the prince, drew
the princesses to him. They were his primary interest and specialty. Akio is
seen here seducing two terribly different women who have one thing in
common--they're not princesses. They're Akio's specialty.

The first person I think of when I ask who in the series is the classic
princess that Dios would have been busy saving is Kanae. Akio seems to show
very little interest in Kanae. In fact it appears he avoids her when he can.
Yet, he's to some extent seduced her. So it's not that he's unable to seduce
princesses. It's just likely he doesn't really enjoy it.

Which makes sense. The princesses are too emotionally stable.

Gio
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
m***@winternet.com
2005-07-16 16:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
S
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Yep. She seems very aware that she hasn't got a chance in hell with
Akio.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
(And doesn't want one, really. She seems to enjoy him for crushs sake.)
*nods* Wakaba's looking for some fun.
Between her nagging Tatsuya and play-flirting w/ Akio, we can guess
she's over Saionji by now...
Or she's overcompensating.
She's young though, so she's probably just over him. Of course, replacing
Saionji with Akio makes me worry that she might have a bloodhound's nose for
abusive men...
Y'know, I really wonder if Wakaba developed her crush on Saionji before
he became abusive. He was probably aloof and rather arrogant all along,
but that may have appealed to Wakaba. But I tend to think that the
abusive behavior didn't emerge until his involvement with the Student
Council, a changed Touga, and Anthy threw him into an emotional
pressure-cooker. From that first scene where Utena sees Saionji take a
swing at Anthy and Touga stopping him, it's Wakaba who identifies all
three to Utena, so she's been aware of these people for a while. Wakaba
doesn't seem overly concerned that Saionji tried to hit Anthy. She's
jealous of Anthy at that point--she thinks Anthy has a relationship with
Saionji which of course should be *hers* instead, and so she has no
reason to be fond of Anthy. And so I think she's supressing what should
be a red flag to her regarding Saionji's behavior. And doggone it, I
just don't see Wakaba developing a crush on someone *known* to be cruel
and abusive. So I think that the crush began pre-Anthy.

<snip interesting Akio analysis>

Laurie
-- Saionji's Prince and Keeper
***@winternet.com
http://www.winternet.com/~milo
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-18 18:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
S
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Yep. She seems very aware that she hasn't got a chance in hell with
Akio.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
(And doesn't want one, really. She seems to enjoy him for crushs sake.)
*nods* Wakaba's looking for some fun.
Between her nagging Tatsuya and play-flirting w/ Akio, we can guess
she's over Saionji by now...
Or she's overcompensating.
She's young though, so she's probably just over him. Of course, replacing
Saionji with Akio makes me worry that she might have a bloodhound's nose for
abusive men...
Mmm... as Laurie said, I don't know if Saio was particularly _abusive_
when she fell for him (but who's abusive at the beginning of a
relationship? That stuff always tends to be revealed later...)... but
perhaps does have an attraction to dominant males. Spunky as she is,
she seems to buy into the whole submissive wife thing pretty much.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
I saw no convincing evidence of a foot fetish. I just saw someone taking
brutal advantage of the state that positioning puts women in.
Someone with a true foot fetish would have been _looking_ at the feet
they're touching. Akio's always looking at the woman's face. There's a
fetish in play here, but touching feet is only the vehicle to satisfying
the
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
true interest--seeing people in psychologically stressful states.
You know, in all honesty, I wans't thinking about it that hard. ^^
Yasha and I have gone into way more detail on such subjects than is really
appropriate. There are acres of chatlogs.
Heh. Well, appropriateness is only judged by the audience really... if
you are your own audience, it doesn't matter much, now does it?
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I agree however that your last statement--yes that is his fetish, I
think.
He's a true sadist. Too picky to be satisfied with willing physical
submission or BDSM. Those are games to him, they have safe words and the
submissive party consents to and knows exactly what will happen. Yawn.
Akio's taste is for emotional pain and stress. Schadenfreude. Sometimes it
amuses him. Gentle proddings at someone's psyche meant not to hurt but to
disarm. Sometimes it sexually arouses him. Nabbing Touga about how his
little princess has been broken? That was a sexual indulgence for him.
Above and beyond that he seems to have a specific fondness for conflict. The
battle in Utena's mind between prince and princess pleases him terribly,
much more so than Juri's constant deep depression and Miki's bad familial
situation. The whole cast is conflicted, but Akio seems to particularly
savor the most conflicted characters.
Even going back to our Mrs. Ohtori discussion--the very fact she's
uncomfortable with the seduction but yet submits to him is probably
what is getting him off. Even any actual interest Kanae holds for him
would be in her conflict between trying to be a good fiance and hating
his sister so, perhaps?

Akio is himself conflicted--or was, at one point, anyway. He was so
conflicted he fully split into two identities. So the question is, if
this is the case, then does conflict attract him because it's so much
part of his experience, or does it attract him because he _wants_ that
conflict back--i.e., he wants Dios a part of him again to struggle
with? (Am I making sense?)

<Snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
No. A nerd _contest_ would be, "MY character has a Charisma of 62! Give
me one reason why you shouldn't like me!" "Because MY character has a
Wisdom of 63."
This is just nerd babble. ^^
Aww, I thought the goal was to be more rabidly nerdy than anyone else.
I am fully confident in the fact that I am a huge geek and don't need
to compare it with anyone else's geekishness, thank you very much. ^_^
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I stay faaaaaar away from MMORPGS for my own good, but from what I can
suss you're saying, I can see it.
You're wise. I miss EQ terribly and would absorb myself for months in it at
the drop of a hat if I could.
I get terribly obsessed with games. If I got into interactive games
that combine my favorite genre (fantasy RPGs) with interacting and
competing w/ others I would be gone gone gone... one of those people
who loses their job and friends and so forth.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio would make a good dark elf in various genres. And not one of those
wimpy "reformed" ones you see in many RPGs these days....
<snip>
Yeah, Akio might be a coward but he's not a wimp.
Well, Dark Elves are cowardly. But terribly terribly sly, charismatic,
and manipulative.

<Snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Hmmm... I never really thought of Anthy considering Utena her property
I don't think she really does. She's being possessive of something she knows
isn't really hers. But at the same time, she's at the point in the series
where she's starting to think Utena _should_ be hers, as opposed to her
brother's.
Ah, I see where you're going now.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I think she does think of Akio that way--and simultaneously sees
herself as his, although she has more control than she lets on). But I
agree with the "he wants her to feel like she handed Utena over him..."
part. I think at this point in the story Anthy doesn't really know what
to _do_ with Utena. Part of her is genuinely fond of her. Part of her
still sees her as a tool for her and/or Akio's plans.
Yes. The problem for her arises when she stops seeing Utena as a passing
thing. She's trained herself not to care when people come and go, but she
doesn't really want to let go of Utena. I don't think it really dawns on her
that she likes Utena until she's forced to consider Utena not being around.
Like in episode 25, when Saionji's about to win the duel and she throws it
for Utena.
Well, she does this early on in episode 12. Touga wins her, and despite
arguments that she has no feelings, we see her imagining Utena sitting
across from her when she's alone at the tea table. I remember it
because it's one of the very FEW moments we are allowed to see what
Anthy is thinking about. She is also genuinely concerned for Utena
fighting Touga during this episode (but is also convinced she's going
to lose until... well, until Utena wins).

Utena scares her, I think. She reawakens feelings and loyalties in her
that Anthy used to think of as weakness and foolish illusion. But she
wants what Utena gives her... and at the same time fears what Utena has
to offer--which is getting away from the life she has clung to for so
long.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Phallic symbols.
Just kidding.
....or am I?
Well, they seem very much linked to Utena's giving in to her feelings.
So if they're phallic symbols, is it Utena letting go of her
"masculinity"? Her "princeness"? To become the Princess of Akio?
Makes sense to me.
Also it's worth pointing out that these candles are, one by one, going out,
as she realizes more and more that she's in love with Akio. Usually the
metaphor of love is a flame being lit. Almost like they're telling you she
isn't so much in love with Akio as falling out of love with Dios. (She's
attracted to Akio, clearly, but I don't think she actually falls in love
with him. She breaks out of it too easily and quickly for it to be the real
thing...but then it wasn't supposed to be.)
I agree on the infatuation point--especially since she ultimately does
not seem terribly surprised to see Akio in the arena in Ep 38.

But falling out of love with Dios, yes... because on one hand, her love
for Dios is really no more real... but on the other, having feelings
for a flesh and blood person ultimately theoretically win over having
feelings for a person who is eventually seen to be more of an ideal
than anything else.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
If anything, she reinforces them. After all, what does he plan to do
with
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Utena? Break a prince. That's a concept near and dear to Akio's cold,
lifeless heart.
So perhaps she does not shake his beliefs until the afterword (or
perhaps it's anthy that does the shaking)
I don't think Utena made a shred of difference in Akio's outlook or life.
Yeah, that's probably true. But then, it wasn't Akio's life she was
meant to be a part of. And it was still ultimately Anthy's decision
that "revolutionized the world" so to speak--it was just Utena who
helped Anthy realize it was her decision to make.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
And as far as his beliefs, Anthy doesn't change anything either. I don't
think his personality or ambitions will change without Anthy. He'll either
die without her to take the swords, or he'll manage to continue in the same
coffin he's been in all along.
That I have to wonder about. I agree to a point that I think Akio is
comfortable in his coffin and doesn't want to leave. But I also think
much of his life revolved around Anthy... with her leaving, it could
affect him dramatically. But whether it causes him to shrink further
into his illusions or break out of them is up to interpretation, I
suppose.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Does the world hate him? It doesn't seem that way. Or is that most
people flirt or kiss up to him--because they have to?
I'm sorry, I was being vague. I mean the hatred they've cultivated for the
once-prince that betrayed them. Person to person people feel about him
however he wants them to feel, though he never does entirely shed the idea
of being a sinful element in a person's life. He likes to be that challenge
to their moral structure.
Ah... yes, I see.
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
*eyebrows up* Okay then! Well, I was off. ^^ I think I've seen some
people use that more than they should. ^^;;;
Wow, I'm kinda shocked. I hear it so often...
I've only seen it online.

<Snip>
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Yes, there is a lot to that scene.
There is. I should sit down some time and compare it to the scene in that
episode with Utena. They way they're constructed and in the same episode
makes me think you're supposed to parallel them. Off the top of my head they
seem to show where Akio's true seductive talents are. Dios, the prince, drew
the princesses to him. They were his primary interest and specialty. Akio is
seen here seducing two terribly different women who have one thing in
common--they're not princesses. They're Akio's specialty.
Ah yes. But does he want to turn them into princesses?
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
The first person I think of when I ask who in the series is the classic
princess that Dios would have been busy saving is Kanae. Akio seems to show
very little interest in Kanae. In fact it appears he avoids her when he can.
Yet, he's to some extent seduced her. So it's not that he's unable to seduce
princesses. It's just likely he doesn't really enjoy it.
"Been there, done that."
Post by Giovanna Spadaro
Which makes sense. The princesses are too emotionally stable.
Are they? I got the sense that the concept of "princess" of this series
was someone who is wholly reliant upon a "prince" for fulfillment and
survival. (And the "prince" relies on the princess to protect, in order
to prove his strength to the world; the princess to protect is the key
to the prince's identity, and without one the prince is nothing.) The
"revolution" I thought was to develop a woman who was self-reliant,
both in not relying on a "prince" nor relying on a "princess" to give
them strength. (I sort of pulled this from Ikuhara's thoughts from
somewhere... his movie commentary, perhaps.... but I am also
extrapolating.)

And Kanae is NOT emotionally stable. She's barely her own person, and
terribly unconfident.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Kevin Trainor
2005-07-15 12:18:00 UTC
Permalink
***@deathquaker.org wrote:
<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
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Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena
And Utena first sees the Akio Car as...Akio's Car!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
So! The episode starts with Tatsuya and Wakaba--I had completely
forgotten Tatsuya ever showed up past the Black Rose arc, so this was a
nice surprise. The argument about lying to get a kiss was very cute,
and it was funny to see Wakaba so indignant.
I missed that! Darn. Well, that's why were watching this "together"!
BTW, the episode script on ohtori.nu doesn't even credit him as Tatsuya,
just "guy".
I'm pretty sure it was him... he has rather distinctive sort of round
hair.
*nods* It's him.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio Car"
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.
She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I some how think she was not deflowered ^^)
Um, no. For once, "Riding in the Akio Car" doesn't have quite the effect it
usually does. Gee, does that mean that Wakaba shares something with Jury?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
Too bad it doesn't work in this case.
Then again, things would be very different if it had.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Of course, Utena's being really blockheaded through the whole episode.
I spend much of this episode wanting to scream "NO UTENA YOU IDIOT."
You make it sound like you're watching a horror film...or a train wreck.
Do I really? ^^ I guess so. "No, don't open that door!" kind of thing.
You and me both. Nobody likes to see their hero display their feet of clay.

<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it.
One of the points I remember from the Utena panel at C-kon 2 years ago was
that the show has a "Land of the Lotus Eaters" feel to it. A lot of what
propels the action is that people forget what happened earlier. In
particular, the lack of pupils in the eyes makes the characters look
drugged.
An interesting idea. I think I said once the whole show has a feel of
"faded memory" to it... some pieces are missing or out of place...
others feel like a dream.
Which (I think) is why a lot of fanfic writers take the position that
Akio has control over what happens at Ohtori in terms of what people
remember, either in the sense that there's mind control going on or
that Akio (through the planetarium) is casting some major illusions.

<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and saying
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
*shrug*
Anthy. Gendo only has her kind of power in his nightmares.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
I think they're symbolic of both, actually.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio's
too set in his jadedness to consider another world view. But thus we
see a difference between Touga and Akio. This episode I think made me
respect Touga more the first time I saw it, or maybe at least like him
for seeing what he actually thought of someone (and then I saw what he
did to Nanami in the following episodes and forgot about this. But
that's then and this is now.)
And finally we have the Mrs. Ohtori scene. Not much to say on this
except to show that Akio is SOOOOO bad (and so good at being bad), and
that Mrs. Ohtori has really cool hair.
Utena is very gracious to Kanae, even after duelling her. Of course, Kanae
has no clue, having forgotten everything from the Black Rose Arc.
Utena _can't remember_ that she duelled Kanae. But IIRC at the time
believed it wasn't her (or Kozue or Shiori or Mitsuru or Wakaba or
Keiko's) fault for duelling her. She in fact feels sorry for all of
them. And most of those people she likes... the only possible exception
being perhaps Kozue (who was blatantly pissy toward Utena since the
beginning).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Gio answers that one in the next post, so I don't have to.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Akio, you bozo, you can't name a comet after someone else. Comets are named
after their discoverer, i.e., YOU! Come to think of it, Comet Ohtori 1 has
a nice ring to it. Oh, wait, that might work, as Ohtori is her name, too.
Maybe he's cleverer than I thought.
Akio I am sure was offering it as a romantic notion and cares little
for scientific convention.
<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
love letters,
Sorry, I can't channel Juri or Shiori. Besides, I'm taken and my girlfriend
googles!
Ah well. Heh, I'd love to see the kind of "love letter" Jury would send
me.
Jury: I'm wrapping it around this brick right now.
See? ^^
Kind of a Krazy Kat relationship with you two, eh?

<snip>
--
Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"

UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-19 19:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
Too bad it doesn't work in this case.
Then again, things would be very different if it had.
Well, I think it does wear down Utena a bit--I mean, Utena does
ultimately relent to being infatuated with Akio. But she never fully
explores her feelings because she's too busy denying them.

<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it.
One of the points I remember from the Utena panel at C-kon 2 years ago was
that the show has a "Land of the Lotus Eaters" feel to it. A lot of what
propels the action is that people forget what happened earlier. In
particular, the lack of pupils in the eyes makes the characters look
drugged.
An interesting idea. I think I said once the whole show has a feel of
"faded memory" to it... some pieces are missing or out of place...
others feel like a dream.
Which (I think) is why a lot of fanfic writers take the position that
Akio has control over what happens at Ohtori in terms of what people
remember, either in the sense that there's mind control going on or
that Akio (through the planetarium) is casting some major illusions.
I think he perhaps that power to an extent. Not as much as some writers
give him.

<snip>
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
love letters,
Sorry, I can't channel Juri or Shiori. Besides, I'm taken and my girlfriend
googles!
Ah well. Heh, I'd love to see the kind of "love letter" Jury would send
me.
Jury: I'm wrapping it around this brick right now.
See? ^^
Kind of a Krazy Kat relationship with you two, eh?
Heh. I had to look that up. ^^

But I'm not quite so naive to believe she's being affectionate. ^^ I'm
just good at dodging. But I love her regardless.

Jury: Hmph.

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-26 00:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the 70s
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
Heh, heh. Naga and now Lynda Carter. You're a sucker for statuesque women
in skimpy outfits, aren't you?
Well, Lynda Carter-as-Wonder Woman was my hero when I was four years
old. I watch it primarily for nostalgia and warm fuzzies. I mean, of
course she is attractive and can't say I don't look at her (or the
gorgeous Alex Ross Wonder Woman poster on my living room wall), but I
can't say I've ever really fantasized about her.
What do you think of the latest WB incarnation? I think Bruce Timms did the
character design for her.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
OTOH, perhaps she
imprinted in my young brain the ideal of STRONG PRETTY WOMAN and thus
my primal brain responds "HALF NAKED AMAZON GOOD. WANT! WANT!" when
seeing such a type of person.
Wouldn't doubt that for a second. BTW, Huntress falls in this category,
too.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Ever thought of what Juri would look like in a swimsuit?
Stop trying to distract me.
Muah, ha, ha! But I enjoy seeing you distracted!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
But I did start a quick sketch on the bus
this morning, since you mentioned it.
Which I enjoyed, although I was hoping her wearing a bikini.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
That's OK. You and I share similar taste in our fantasy women. I suppose
if we were ever at a con together, we'd compare notes on the same
cosplayers.
Well, come to Otakon next year. ^^
That is the plan--along with my daughter, who should have just turned 16.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to watch
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena
And Utena first sees the Akio Car as...Akio's Car!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
So! The episode starts with Tatsuya and Wakaba--I had completely
forgotten Tatsuya ever showed up past the Black Rose arc, so this was a
nice surprise. The argument about lying to get a kiss was very cute,
and it was funny to see Wakaba so indignant.
I missed that! Darn. Well, that's why were watching this "together"!
BTW, the episode script on ohtori.nu doesn't even credit him as Tatsuya,
just "guy".
I'm pretty sure it was him... he has rather distinctive sort of round
hair.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I in fact forgot that Wakaba figured so much in this episode (as for
the most part she really is a non-entity in this arc). She safely rides
in the Akio car
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio Car"
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.
Pretty much. Akio wasn't interested in her for that purpose, only Mamiya.
I guess he enjoyed messing with the secondary characters. Akio prefers to
fry bigger fish.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Sometimes, even one's best friends can be cruel. Then again, Wakaba has
nothing on Anthy!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I some how think she was not deflowered ^^)
Um, no. For once, "Riding in the Akio Car" doesn't have quite the effect it
usually does. Gee, does that mean that Wakaba shares something with Jury?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
I'll have to pay more attention to her in that role.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Of course, Utena's being really blockheaded through the whole episode.
I spend much of this episode wanting to scream "NO UTENA YOU IDIOT."
You make it sound like you're watching a horror film...or a train wreck.
Do I really? ^^ I guess so. "No, don't open that door!" kind of thing.
That's what I had in mind.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
In
part, because she's being stupidly thickheaded about admitting her
infatuation with Akio. And in part, because she's infatuated with Akio.
But she's a 14-year-old with an extremely charismatic man who so well
brings forth these ideals that Utena wants to see in him, so what can
you do? Akio, I don't like him, but he's _damn_ good at what he does.
The first line of his that struck me was "Typically wicked girl's plots,
eh?" Yeah, Akio should know from wicked!
Also, Akio seems to be quite the leg man.
More of a foot fetisher, I think.
Gio presented quite a well-thought-out rebuttal to this.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
If he were a D&D character his Charisma would be, like, a 62 (the
highest normally being 18).
Snort. At least with the version of Dieties and Demigods (AKA Myths and
Magic) that I own from the transition between 1st and 2nd edition D&D,
godlike charisma starts at 19 and stops at 25. I'd give him a 20,
appropriate for a demigod.
It goes ad infinitum in the current version, but no one but gods have
anything higher than say a 24 or so. The Forgotten Realms Goddess of
Love, an extremely powerful Greater Deity who can charm anyone she
looks at, has a Charisma of 56, IIRC.
Oh. Well, I think you can tell that I haven't played anything newer than
2nd Edition. FWIW, I still have my 1st edition AD&D rules books and the
rules books from the original D&D, although they're in poor condition.

Speaking of D20 games, there was an extended discussion of Slayers D20 on
rec.arts.anime.misc last month that had Bruce Grubb contributing.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I was still exaggerating on Akio's part, but you get the idea.
Oh, I don't dispute the high charisma at all.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And along with Utena being a blockhead, she says the line I put up
above, "I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." She is confused by
this... but COME ON, UTENA, put two and two together already! In fact,
I really do wonder if at least a part of her knows/suspects Akio's
involvement in her "other" life. She just doesn't know what the heck to
do about it.
One of the points I remember from the Utena panel at C-kon 2 years ago was
that the show has a "Land of the Lotus Eaters" feel to it. A lot of what
propels the action is that people forget what happened earlier. In
particular, the lack of pupils in the eyes makes the characters look
drugged.
An interesting idea. I think I said once the whole show has a feel of
"faded memory" to it... some pieces are missing or out of place...
others feel like a dream.
That makes sense, too.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the power of fogetfulness is impeding
Utena. It certainly does later in the series.
An important episode coming up, I think.
Several of them, involving memories of more than just Utena and Anthy.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think perhaps she does put it together as the series
progresses (we'll see).
A progression of Utena's guilt cycle... the first time she makes goo
goo eyes at Akio, she then eyes Anthy and then looks extremely guilty.
Then she mentions Kanae several times as to that's not why she
shouldn't be interested. THEN she mentions her Prince several times and
insists she can't love him because she loves her prince. Another guilty
look at Anthy and then it's back to her Prince. In love with passion,
friendship, and her romantic ideal of nobility? Where does the truth
lie, o pink haired one?
She doesn't know yet. BTW, she asks Anthy the same question twice "Come to
think of it, do you have anybody you love?" Anthy answers "yes" and, at
least in the ohtori.nu script, also says "A prince". Hmm.
Yep. In the DVD she says, "I too have a prince," or something along
those lines (sub and dub lines are same in this, as it's a voice over
shot).
Which goes right over Utena's head. To be fair, it went over mine at the
time, too.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and saying
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
I wouldn't be inclined to find out.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
*shrug*
Not an Evangelion fan?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Also, a random comment: the three candles. Utena's resolve wavering...
but also her fear?
I was wondering what was up with the candles.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
The conversation between Akio and Touga was interesting... Touga
reveals he is falling in love with Utena because he "shook my core
beliefs. It was the only time I've reconsidered how I live my life."
Some rare genuine sentiment from the redhead, and some insight into why
he feels for Utena. I didn't get the sense that Akio agreed with him--I
mean, he also finds Utena fascinating, but I don't think she shakes his
core beliefs.
Well, he certainly complimented Utena for her iconoclastic style in front of
the teacher and assistant principal. He'll at least say such things, even
if he doesn't believe them.
I think he does believe in some level of rebelling against the status
quo... or more against people who enforce the rules simply because
they're rules.
That might just be a demonstration of his power.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Also, it's interesting to see that Utena is the captain of the school
basketball team--the BOYS school team!
I wonder if that's a translation error. I saw the subtitle "Captain!"
but heard "Tenjou!" I think someone mistook it for "Bujo."
Hm.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio's
too set in his jadedness to consider another world view. But thus we
see a difference between Touga and Akio. This episode I think made me
respect Touga more the first time I saw it, or maybe at least like him
for seeing what he actually thought of someone (and then I saw what he
did to Nanami in the following episodes and forgot about this. But
that's then and this is now.)
And finally we have the Mrs. Ohtori scene. Not much to say on this
except to show that Akio is SOOOOO bad (and so good at being bad), and
that Mrs. Ohtori has really cool hair.
Utena is very gracious to Kanae, even after duelling her. Of course, Kanae
has no clue, having forgotten everything from the Black Rose Arc.
Utena _can't remember_ that she duelled Kanae.
Oh, right. Everybody forgets once Nemuro Hall burns down (for the second
time, even if it's only in everyone's mind).
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
But IIRC at the time
believed it wasn't her (or Kozue or Shiori or Mitsuru or Wakaba or
Keiko's) fault for duelling her. She in fact feels sorry for all of
them. And most of those people she likes... the only possible exception
being perhaps Kozue (who was blatantly pissy toward Utena since the
beginning).
Missed that, too. Did she think that Utena had something for Miki, or was
it just leftover spite for Anthy?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
And the MILF arrives!
You know.... I've seen it a lot but have no idea what "MILF" stands
for... (the F being Female I assume...)
Already answered.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Akio, you bozo, you can't name a comet after someone else. Comets are named
after their discoverer, i.e., YOU! Come to think of it, Comet Ohtori 1 has
a nice ring to it. Oh, wait, that might work, as Ohtori is her name, too.
Maybe he's cleverer than I thought.
Akio I am sure was offering it as a romantic notion and cares little
for scientific convention.
Yes, him and his attitude towards rules.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
H.A. Rey's version of The Twins is shown in the preview for next week's
episode. That's interesting. Every time I see constellations in anime,
they're H.A. Rey's, not the traditional versions of other star atlases.
Probably because for a visual medium, it's easier to pick out the shape
the constellation is supposed to represent.
Yes, it is. It's one of the few systems in which the constellations
actually look like their names in a way that North Americans can understand,
although he does obliterate a few traces of myth in the process. The
traditional Ursa Major has a long tail from being thrown up into the sky.
H. A. Rey's version is reversed to look more like a bear, but the result is
that the long tail is missing.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Hmmm... I've been playing Katamari Demacy (EVIL ADDICTIVE GAME)...
Other than addictive, I've never heard anything bad about the game.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I'll
have to see if the constellation shapes they use are Rey's or the
traditional?
Well?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
And that's all I can think of and look! It's time for bed. Questions,
They're there.
Yay!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
comments,
Lots.
Woohoo!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
flames,
Nah.
Phew!
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
love letters,
Sorry, I can't channel Juri or Shiori. Besides, I'm taken and my girlfriend
googles!
Ah well. Heh, I'd love to see the kind of "love letter" Jury would send
me.
Jury: I'm wrapping it around this brick right now.
See? ^^
Hostile, isn't she?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and recipes all welcome.
You certainly got the recipes. Anyone for an Akio cake recipe?
Yasha pointed out why not, and I'll accept that. Although Gio's pound
cake sounds tempting regardless.
Yum!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I think I'll just hold out for Yasha's Chocolate Truffle Cake....
mmm...... with Swimsuit Jury on top.... mmmmm......
That's the way to return to a thought!

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-26 14:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and have to go do something else
afterward to sort myself out (in this case, watch an episode of the
70s
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Wonder Woman series while doing laundry).
Heh, heh. Naga and now Lynda Carter. You're a sucker for statuesque
women
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
in skimpy outfits, aren't you?
Well, Lynda Carter-as-Wonder Woman was my hero when I was four years
old. I watch it primarily for nostalgia and warm fuzzies. I mean, of
course she is attractive and can't say I don't look at her (or the
gorgeous Alex Ross Wonder Woman poster on my living room wall), but I
can't say I've ever really fantasized about her.
What do you think of the latest WB incarnation? I think Bruce Timms did the
character design for her.
From what I've seen, it's great. I don't get cable though, so I only
see it on occasion.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
OTOH, perhaps she
imprinted in my young brain the ideal of STRONG PRETTY WOMAN and thus
my primal brain responds "HALF NAKED AMAZON GOOD. WANT! WANT!" when
seeing such a type of person.
Wouldn't doubt that for a second. BTW, Huntress falls in this category,
too.
I actually like her better when she's a fully clothed "Amazon,"
frankly. Her second to most recent costume made her look like a Britney
Spears wannabe skank. Thank GOD she has a new costume now! (Debuted
just last week)

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
But I did start a quick sketch on the bus
this morning, since you mentioned it.
Which I enjoyed, although I was hoping her wearing a bikini.
Then you should have said "bikini" and not "Swimsuit." I thought she'd
go for something more athletic, myself. Bikini's aren't suited to
competitive swimming.

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Despite any feelings of ickiness, on my part, however, this IS an
utterly fascinating episode, really, so let's get to it. Again this
discussion is open to any and all, even if you didn't sit down to
watch
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
this a few minutes ago.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Episode 30: "The Barefoot Girl"
"I seem to be seeing this car a lot lately." -- Utena
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
How many people just up and volunteer to do so, instead of having to be
persuaded? It shows that Wakaba has no clue what "riding in the Akio
Car"
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
usually means!
Obviously her use as a duelist (or bride) finished with the Black Rose
Arc.
Pretty much. Akio wasn't interested in her for that purpose, only Mamiya.
I guess he enjoyed messing with the secondary characters. Akio prefers to
fry bigger fish.
Erm... I got the sense Akio was fully aware and involved in the
selection of the Black Rose characters. He just put "Mamiya" in charge
of it so he'd have time to work on getting Utena to trust and fall for
him--and because he wouldn't want Mikage to think he was involved,
despite obvious evidence of Mikage's continued "contract" with him
(still wearing the duellists' ring).
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
She knew it was a date, however, and that it would annoy Utena, which
was enoug for her. ^^
Sometimes, even one's best friends can be cruel. Then again, Wakaba has
nothing on Anthy!
Wakaba is cruel to be kind. Anthy is cruel because she thinks that's
how you have to deal with the world.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
(I some how think she was not deflowered ^^)
Um, no. For once, "Riding in the Akio Car" doesn't have quite the
effect it
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
usually does. Gee, does that mean that Wakaba shares something with
Jury?
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
and really
gets up Utena's nose about Akio.
Which needs to be done, even if Utena isn't listening.
It's Wakaba's job, really--she forces Utena to be honest with herself
on several occasions.
I'll have to pay more attention to her in that role.
The other big one is in episode 12, with the loving bitch slap.

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Speaking of D20 games, there was an extended discussion of Slayers D20 on
rec.arts.anime.misc last month that had Bruce Grubb contributing.
I think I found it, but I'm not sure. It sounds like most of the people
who contributed had actually never seen Slayers d20, because they were
trying to figure out how to apply D&D classes to Slayers characters,
when Slayers d20 doesn't use D&D classes, it uses its own. (Amelia is a
Noble-Warrior-Shamaness-Shrine-Maiden IIRC... not a Paladin, which
doesn't exist in Slayers d20)

<snip>

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Yep. In the DVD she says, "I too have a prince," or something along
those lines (sub and dub lines are same in this, as it's a voice over
shot).
Which goes right over Utena's head. To be fair, it went over mine at the
time, too.
At the time I figured she was talking about Dios. Which she was,
really.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Akio says they have something in common because they both "defy the
rules" but she insists "But I do it for my Prince"--but I think his
true rebel/bad boy nature is what makes her feel all tingly inside.
Anthy is watching. Ewwwww! And with the scary glowing Glasses of Doom
(TM)!!!!
I found her especially creepy when she's waving to Akio and Utena and
saying
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
"Buh-bye!"
Oh yes. It's hard to tell what Anthy is glowing (upset) about...
Utena's falling for Akio or vice versa (or both?).
I wouldn't be inclined to find out.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
BTW, who has scarier Glasses of Doom, Anthy or Gendo Ikari?
*shrug*
Not an Evangelion fan?
Nope. Never got past the 2nd episode, and the series looks long, and it
looks like too much of a head f**k (says the person who has watched
Adolescence Mokushiroku a number of times), and there are other things
to watch.

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
But IIRC at the time
believed it wasn't her (or Kozue or Shiori or Mitsuru or Wakaba or
Keiko's) fault for duelling her. She in fact feels sorry for all of
them. And most of those people she likes... the only possible exception
being perhaps Kozue (who was blatantly pissy toward Utena since the
beginning).
Missed that, too. Did she think that Utena had something for Miki, or was
it just leftover spite for Anthy?
Kozue was pissy with Utena because Utena said, "You and Miki are just
alike!" and Kozue doesn't want to be compared with her brother. I think
also in general Utena has goody-two-shoes vibes which irks Kozue, since
it's that kind of stuff that Kozue wants to rebel against.

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Post by Richard V. Lamb
H.A. Rey's version of The Twins is shown in the preview for next week's
episode. That's interesting. Every time I see constellations in anime,
they're H.A. Rey's, not the traditional versions of other star atlases.
Probably because for a visual medium, it's easier to pick out the shape
the constellation is supposed to represent.
Yes, it is. It's one of the few systems in which the constellations
actually look like their names in a way that North Americans can understand,
although he does obliterate a few traces of myth in the process. The
traditional Ursa Major has a long tail from being thrown up into the sky.
H. A. Rey's version is reversed to look more like a bear, but the result is
that the long tail is missing.
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Hmmm... I've been playing Katamari Demacy (EVIL ADDICTIVE GAME)...
Other than addictive, I've never heard anything bad about the game.
It is very good.
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
I'll
have to see if the constellation shapes they use are Rey's or the
traditional?
Well?
I forgot.

<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Ah well. Heh, I'd love to see the kind of "love letter" Jury would send
me.
Jury: I'm wrapping it around this brick right now.
See? ^^
Hostile, isn't she?
She's angry because I'm Shiori's Prince, you see. Now, understand that
I keep offering the job to her on the simple, single condition that she
tells Shiori she loves her, but somehow it always gets violent after
that point. ^^

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker
s***@deathquaker.org
2005-07-13 21:12:36 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Ever thought of what Juri would look like in
a swimsuit?
Well, in 15 minutes that I had free at the end of the day, while I was
still near a scanner.... I came up with something that looks entirely,
but not quite, unlike Jury:

Loading Image...

Noting that this _was_ done in 15 minutes, so the proportions are off,
and I can't draw shoujo manga style worth crap so this is my own mutant
linedrawing style. But it could be the dummy model for a piece of
fanart one day...

=====
Death Quaker!
Shiori's Prince
http://www.deathquaker.org
Richard V. Lamb
2005-07-25 04:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Ever thought of what Juri would look like in
a swimsuit?
Well, in 15 minutes that I had free at the end of the day, while I was
still near a scanner.... I came up with something that looks entirely,
http://www.deathquaker.org/images/jswim.jpg
Hey, I'm pleased to have inspired you!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Noting that this _was_ done in 15 minutes, so the proportions are off,
and I can't draw shoujo manga style worth crap so this is my own mutant
linedrawing style. But it could be the dummy model for a piece of
fanart one day...
Looking forward to it!

Vince Lamb
AFU no Shadow Play Girls
Kevin Trainor
2005-08-07 22:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
<snip>
Post by Richard V. Lamb
Ever thought of what Juri would look like in
a swimsuit?
Well, in 15 minutes that I had free at the end of the day, while I was
still near a scanner.... I came up with something that looks entirely,
http://www.deathquaker.org/images/jswim.jpg
Hey, I'm pleased to have inspired you!
Post by s***@deathquaker.org
Noting that this _was_ done in 15 minutes, so the proportions are off,
and I can't draw shoujo manga style worth crap so this is my own mutant
linedrawing style. But it could be the dummy model for a piece of
fanart one day...
The proportions may be slightly off, but it's abviously Juri.
--
Kevin the Redneck Otaku,
AFU no Groundskeeper #2
Keeper of Juri's Rarely Seen Femme Side
UtenaCode [2.0]: U:6- F:Ju++ Shi+>:pBR D:Hi--> Na<- X:****:a: 1-39++,[AM]
Mf: "Truth", "Virtual Star Embryology" d: "A Distillation Time"

UTENA: I see your frothing insanity and raise you a phallic yet lesbian
subtext.
KOZUE: Oh no! I'm allergic to lesbian phalluses!
-Utena Thumbnail Theater
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