Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?

[KJ]

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?
October 8, 2001 - http://www.themilitant.com
BY PATRICK O'NEILL
Commentators in the media as well as capitalist politicians have struck
a constant theme in the aftermath of the September 11 attack: "The day
the world changed," they say. That phrase, taken from the headline of
the British Economist magazine, is one example. Washington, London, and
other imperialist governments are hoping to convince working people and
middle-class layers that a new world has dawned, and that their moves
to war in Afghanistan, the militarization of the United States,
restrictions on workers' rights and constitutional liberties are being
taken simply in response to the attacks in New York and Washington.

The world changed when Clinton got busted cheating on the first lady, and
got impeached. It was a pre-cursor for the events to follow. Sept. 11, was
the culmination of a years worth of planning by a bunch of desert doods, who
resented Bush Jr. taking office. Think about the magnitude of the strike on
the twin towers, and the careful, and pain-staking planning. Nothing quite
as complex like that happened during the Reagan, and Clinton
administrations. Only small time stuff. That just goes to show you how much
the desert doods hate the Bush bloodline.

[joekerr]

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?
October 8, 2001 - http://www.themilitant.com
BY PATRICK O'NEILL
Commentators in the media as well as capitalist politicians have struck
a constant theme in the aftermath of the September 11 attack: "The day
the world changed," they say. That phrase, taken from the headline of
the British Economist magazine, is one example. Washington, London, and
other imperialist governments are hoping to convince working people and
middle-class layers that a new world has dawned, and that their moves
to war in Afghanistan, the militarization of the United States,
restrictions on workers' rights and constitutional liberties are being
taken simply in response to the attacks in New York and Washington.

The world changed when Clinton got busted cheating on the first lady, and
got impeached. It was a pre-cursor for the events to follow. Sept. 11, was
the culmination of a years worth of planning by a bunch of desert doods, who
resented Bush Jr. taking office. Think about the magnitude of the strike on
the twin towers, and the careful, and pain-staking planning. Nothing quite
as complex like that happened during the Reagan, and Clinton
administrations.

During the Klinton admin while there was only one spectacular attack -
the first Twin Tower attack... there were many-many more attacks
throughout the world-all very complex and well planned. Some resulted
in failures others massive loss of lives. This Islamic terrorism goes
way back and is merely getting worse- and they're targeting westerners
in the hopes that the west will do what they can't- castrate
Isreal!!!!






Only small time stuff. That just goes to show you how much

Post by KJ
the desert doods hate the Bush bloodline.

This just goes to show you how little you've paid attention over the
years!

[KJ]

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?
October 8, 2001 - http://www.themilitant.com
BY PATRICK O'NEILL
Commentators in the media as well as capitalist politicians have struck
a constant theme in the aftermath of the September 11 attack: "The day
the world changed," they say. That phrase, taken from the headline of
the British Economist magazine, is one example. Washington, London, and
other imperialist governments are hoping to convince working people and
middle-class layers that a new world has dawned, and that their moves
to war in Afghanistan, the militarization of the United States,
restrictions on workers' rights and constitutional liberties are being
taken simply in response to the attacks in New York and Washington.

The world changed when Clinton got busted cheating on the first lady, and
got impeached. It was a pre-cursor for the events to follow. Sept. 11, was
the culmination of a years worth of planning by a bunch of desert doods, who
resented Bush Jr. taking office. Think about the magnitude of the strike on
the twin towers, and the careful, and pain-staking planning. Nothing quite
as complex like that happened during the Reagan, and Clinton
administrations.

During the Klinton admin while there was only one spectacular attack -
the first Twin Tower attack... there were many-many more attacks
throughout the world-all very complex and well planned. Some resulted
in failures others massive loss of lives. This Islamic terrorism goes
way back and is merely getting worse- and they're targeting westerners
in the hopes that the west will do what they can't- castrate
Isreal!!!!
Only small time stuff. That just goes to show you how much

Post by KJ
the desert doods hate the Bush bloodline.

This just goes to show you how little you've paid attention over the
years!

The first twin tower attack was very small. Not spectacular at all as
compared to what was happening outside the U.S. Where's the link connecting
Bush Jr, to the other attacks happening on non-U.S. soil when he wasn't even
in office yet? Anyhow, I'm only suggesting that his election finally drove
the Islamic terrorists over the edge, daring them to commit to a massive
loss of life *within* the United States, unlike the world has never seen --
9/11. And, the reasons why maybe, because they hate Bush Sr. so much, that
there's no way they'd tolerate the world with his son in office. I think
that's a reasonable speculation since neither you, nor I are within close
proximity to any of the players at that elevation to know any better, other
than what you read/see in the news media. One of the popular thoughts
prevailing around Bush Jr's election time was that of, "like Father, like
Son", as in, same hidden agendas, which may not sit well with the Oil
powers.

Hey man, you think I don't pay attention, at least I don't *pretend* to know
what kind of petty antics the powers that be play on each other. The media
is in the same boat we are. They're programmed to program us.

[joekerr]

Post by KJ

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?

the culmination of a years worth of planning by a bunch of desert doods,

who

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ
resented Bush Jr. taking office. Think about the magnitude of the strike

on

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ
the twin towers, and the careful, and pain-staking planning. Nothing

quite

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ
as complex like that happened during the Reagan, and Clinton
administrations.

During the Klinton admin while there was only one spectacular attack -
the first Twin Tower attack... there were many-many more attacks
throughout the world-all very complex and well planned. Some resulted
in failures others massive loss of lives. This Islamic terrorism goes
way back and is merely getting worse- and they're targeting westerners
in the hopes that the west will do what they can't- castrate
Isreal!!!!
Only small time stuff. That just goes to show you how much

Post by KJ
the desert doods hate the Bush bloodline.

This just goes to show you how little you've paid attention over the
years!

The first twin tower attack was very small. Not spectacular at all as
compared to what was happening outside the U.S.

Actually it was an even better plan- lucliy for us some Yuppie scum
illegally parked their mini-van just where the terrorists wanted to
park their rental-van... otherwise the towers would have collapsed.
The mastermind of the plan was a New Jersey (Rutgers) educated
engineer who knew just where to place the bomb... 10 feet was all that
stood between failure and sucess that day.

Where's the link connecting Bush Jr, to the other attacks happening
on non-U.S. soil when he wasn't even in office yet?

Uh reread what you wrote and what I wrote- you said there were no
attacks Pre-Jr and I said there were... you flip-flopped on us here!

Anyhow, I'm only suggesting that his election finally drove

Post by KJ
the Islamic terrorists over the edge, daring them to commit to a massive
loss of life *within* the United States, unlike the world has never seen --
9/11.

No it's been a long time coming and they clearly wanted to do so
several times before including the first TT Bombing and the arrest of
the so-called Liberty bomber in New Jersey (w/2000 pounds of high
explosives)



And, the reasons why maybe, because they hate Bush Sr. so much, that

Post by KJ
there's no way they'd tolerate the world with his son in office. I think
that's a reasonable speculation since neither you, nor I are within close
proximity to any of the players at that elevation to know any better, other
than what you read/see in the news media.

That's a silly delusion- it's not a personal matter as you seem to
think- it goes much deeper... why don't you try studying what the
terrorists themselves have been saying as opposed to the MEDIA!




One of the popular thoughts

Post by KJ
prevailing around Bush Jr's election time was that of, "like Father, like
Son", as in, same hidden agendas, which may not sit well with the Oil
powers.

Popular with whom???? The lunatic fringe? The leftie conspiracy
weenies? Oh puleeeze!

Post by KJ
Hey man, you think I don't pay attention, at least I don't *pretend* to know
what kind of petty antics the powers that be play on each other. The media
is in the same boat we are. They're programmed to program us.

OK Hudsy whatever you say BWAHAHAHAHA!

[KJ]

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?

...snipped...
Where's the link connecting Bush Jr, to the other attacks happening
on non-U.S. soil when he wasn't even in office yet?
Uh reread what you wrote and what I wrote- you said there were no
attacks Pre-Jr and I said there were... you flip-flopped on us here!

Uh, here's what I wrote, "It was a pre-cursor for the events to follow".
Maybe, it's not clear, but to me, my statement included other terrorist
activities happening around the world between the 1st, and 2nd WTC events.
You need to ease up on your Evelyn Wood Sped reading skills dood. You're
missing some very key stuff here!

Anyhow, I'm only suggesting that his election finally drove

Post by KJ
the Islamic terrorists over the edge, daring them to commit to a massive
loss of life *within* the United States, unlike the world has never seen --
9/11.

No it's been a long time coming and they clearly wanted to do so
several times before including the first TT Bombing and the arrest of
the so-called Liberty bomber in New Jersey (w/2000 pounds of high
explosives)

Either way, the terrorists decided to do it during Bush Jr.'s time, and not
Clinton's. If you want to think there's no significance to that, which I do,
go ahead.

And, the reasons why maybe, because they hate Bush Sr. so much, that

Post by KJ
there's no way they'd tolerate the world with his son in office. I think
that's a reasonable speculation since neither you, nor I are within close
proximity to any of the players at that elevation to know any better, other
than what you read/see in the news media.

That's a silly delusion- it's not a personal matter as you seem to
think- it goes much deeper... why don't you try studying what the
terrorists themselves have been saying as opposed to the MEDIA!

I used the word "S-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n", my man. And, there's nothing silly
about mine. If I don't get it straight from the horse's mouth, or witness it
for myself, then that leaves some room for me to speculate, which can't be
construed as a permanent opinion. Someone with a delusion isn't open to any
truths, alternative, or not. I am. What we see/hear from the media about
World politics is second hand information, maybe even half truths, or
downright lies. I'm saying that we're not getting the full scoop. Look, Bush
Jr hasn't found the MW of D yet, like many speculated he would, but he also
hasn't slapped a U.S. claim of control on Iraq's oil like many speculated he
would either. A lot of what we "think", we know is, to a certain degree,
speculation. So, who're we to believe? The left, or right chicken wing?

One of the popular thoughts

Post by KJ
prevailing around Bush Jr's election time was that of, "like Father, like
Son", as in, same hidden agendas, which may not sit well with the Oil
powers.

Popular with whom???? The lunatic fringe? The leftie conspiracy
weenies? Oh puleeeze!

Seriously! That seemed to be a common theme among people who didn't like
Bush Jr. Don't shoot the observer man. Myself, I'm half-n-half with that
speculation. You never know. It's hard to measure a son's bond/loyalty to
his father. I don't pretend to know if it's strong, or weak, or what their
hidden agendas are. Common, or not. Only the possibility that Bush Jr. may
be, as some have said, continuing where his father left off, and that's what
I eluded to in the Terrorists being pushed over the edge. People claimed
that Bush Sr. screwed up our economy, which Clinton tried to fix, and Bush
Jr. is now screwing up again. Who are we to agree/disagree with that
opinion?

Post by KJ
Hey man, you think I don't pay attention, at least I don't *pretend* to know
what kind of petty antics the powers that be play on each other. The media
is in the same boat we are. They're programmed to program us.

OK Hudsy whatever you say BWAHAHAHAHA!

Look. I'm not Hudsy, a.k.a. Hudson Jackson, a.k.a, MH2. Hudsy is/was
someone's identity who supposedly lived in New Jersey, attended College
there, and purported to graduate sometime in the late 90s. I think Hudsy is
Mr. Blasterlux, or the "Staff of the Shepherd", guy. Their posts have a
common feel, or similiarity. I'm too blunt/goofy/cool to be Hudsy.

-Kj
M'ang Mike says "You are being programmed joekerr. Mwuuuuhahahahahah."

[KJ]

Post by KJ
Either way, the terrorists decided to do it during Bush Jr.'s time, and
not Clinton's. If you want to think there's no significance to that,

which I

Post by KJ
do, go ahead.

Think, KJ. The plot started in 1996. Who knew who would be President in
2001 in 1996? What about in 1998 when the CIA first heard about a plan to
fly planes into the WTC?
9-11 had nothing to do with Bush. It had everything to do with the
perception that the US would not respond to terror strikes and was a paper
tiger.
Do the math Pig

We have a long history of warfare that is significant, even the desert doods
aren't that dumb to ignore the might of our military force, and weaponry.
It's one of the reasons why Russia could never get the nerve to fully go toe
to toe with the U.S. Now, I know that Iraq's military leadership has made
fools of themselves on, and off the battlefield during the latest war, but
their soldiers in the trenches knew what kind of force they'd have to reckon
with in the end, thanks to the Gulf war.

I think that 9-11 was just the terrorist's sore loser way of saying to the
world that they never accepted the Desert Storm defeat. And, in their
embarrassment, probably decided to finally do their thing during Bush Jr.'s
time, because yeah, they probably did think he was a wuss, and therefore,
wouldn't be met with a decisive response for war. But now, the whole globe
knows exactly what the U.S. is packing. This is significant for countries
like China, North Korea, and yeah, the former U.S.S.R. who have, or are
contemplating to flex against the U.S. We all know that it doesn't mean shit
to the terrorists, because they just can't understand, and accept the terms
of a lost cause.

Their reasons for terrorism never seem to focus on a specific, maybe, thanks
to the media who further add to the pool of speculation. But one thing is
for sure, with the amazing fact that most of the terrorists are Saudi
Arabian, and not Iraqui should be a good indicator that we need to leave a
lot of room for analysis, and yeah, speculation. There's a lot that just
don't quite figure, and it bothers me when others come off as knowing for
sure what it's all about. Wasn't it the popular belief at one point that it
all had to do with religion power struggles? Nah. I can't believe in that a
hunnert percent. Then there was the oil issue. That theory went down the
tubes. Then there was this association Bush Sr. had with some of their
leaders. Man, the whole point is,
w h o t h e h e c k r e a l l y k n o w s?

The plot as you say, could've all just been a grand scheme concocted by our
own military leadership to get us into a situation where we can test our new
military hardware, etc. One never knows if that's how a plot is played out.
Man, you can do all the reading you'd like, and walk away from each sitting
thinking "you know", but in the back of your head still lies the questions,
and the "what ifs".

Remember..."think outside of the box". Yeah, just because the price of gas
in California has gone down, you gotta think about who in the U.S. is
controlling that exactly. Some people think that it's the desert doods
controlling the price of our gas, but how's that? Our country has a lot of
filthy rich/powerful people, and who socialize with most of the swinging
dicks in Washington, Corporate America, and European powers. We also have a
pretty good reserve of oil. Who is to say that these rich American doods
didn't connive with each other in an attempt to make more money, connive
with the rich/powerful everywhere else around the globe, come up with the
string of terrorist acts here, and there, and play the cards so that
eventually, the U.S., and Iraq would be going toe to toe, again! And, in the
end, everyone of them conniving bastards came out even richer than they were
before! Both Bush Jr, and Saddam just might very well be the poor schmucks
caught in the middle, manipulated, and used as scapegoats in a grand money
making scheme.
W h o k n o w s ?

There's a whole lot of shit that can be looked at to try, and solve a
puzzle, and that's the game I like to play. Which, I'm doing with yawl right
now. Mostly, because I'm bored. It's Sunday, and I need constant breaks from
my current development project. heheheheheh.

-Kj
What if? Who knows? Who cares? Who dat? Who dere?

[Congenital Kano]

Post by KJ
I think that 9-11 was just the terrorist's sore loser way of saying to the
world that they never accepted the Desert Storm defeat. And, in their
embarrassment, probably decided to finally do their thing during Bush Jr.'s
time, because yeah, they probably did think he was a wuss, and therefore,
wouldn't be met with a decisive response for war. But now, the whole globe
knows exactly what the U.S. is packing. This is significant for countries
like China, North Korea, and yeah, the former U.S.S.R. who have, or are
contemplating to flex against the U.S. We all know that it doesn't mean shit
to the terrorists, because they just can't understand, and accept the terms
of a lost cause.

But 9-11 was not at all about the Gulf War (or only marginally so). OBL is
not Iraqi, nor was he a supporter of Saddam (they certainly had contacts,
and had a mutual self-interest in their hatred for the US, but even as OBL
called on Al Qaeda to attack the US to defend Iraq he said Saddam was an
unbeliever). Indeed, he is a Saudi, who were attacked by Iraq during the
Gulf War.

OBL's fatwahs against the US do specify one outgrowth of the Gulf War --
they want non-Muslims out of Saudi Arabia, including military. But OBL's
stated goals in his writings, speeches and fatwahs, is the complete
expulsion of non-Muslims from lands formerly belonging to the Caliphate --
which included much of Spain and the lands around the Mediterranean up into
the former USSR and India. He seeks a global Muslim society, based upon
14th century laws and science.

9-11 wasn't outraged Arab manhood striking back. It was an attempt to
destroy the economy and will of the US to lead to a global Islamist rule.
OBL did not "lose" anything in Desert Storm. OBL is fighting against
Westernization and progress; look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan to
see the world as he would remake it (no music, no kites, no women on the
streets, no education for women, etc.).

Think about it -- the Suadis *won* the Gulf War... yet 15 of the 19
hijackers were Saudis. How does this fit in with the "sore loser" theory?

Post by KJ
Their reasons for terrorism never seem to focus on a specific, maybe, thanks
to the media who further add to the pool of speculation. But one thing is
for sure, with the amazing fact that most of the terrorists are Saudi
Arabian, and not Iraqui should be a good indicator that we need to leave a
lot of room for analysis, and yeah, speculation. There's a lot that just
don't quite figure, and it bothers me when others come off as knowing for
sure what it's all about. Wasn't it the popular belief at one point that it
all had to do with religion power struggles? Nah. I can't believe in that a
hunnert percent. Then there was the oil issue. That theory went down the
tubes. Then there was this association Bush Sr. had with some of their
leaders. Man, the whole point is,
w h o t h e h e c k r e a l l y k n o w s?

While the elite media pretend to not understand, students of the ME
understand the "roots of terror" all too well, as do everyday Arabs. The
elite media don't want to go into the details because it reflects less than
well on the Arab and Muslim philosophies and culture. In a multicultural
world, where every culture is to be valued as equal, how do you retain your
liberal viewpoints when you have to explain that at the base of terror is
not poverty (most of the hijackers were from wealthy or upper-MC families)
or oppression by the US but a barbaric culture seeking to subjugate women,
countenance slavery, murder those who do not believe as you do, and impose a
failed 14th-century judicial and economic system on a modern world?

The media refuses to acknowledge even the simplest of realities of the ME --
that the Arabs don't want a separate Palestinian state, they want to
exterminate all the Jews and erase Israel from the map. How many statements
from Arab leader saying exactly this over the last 50 years do you need?
How many statements of purpose (such as that of HAMAS, Hezbollah and Islamic
Jihad) who state *on their websites* and in their charters that they exist
to kill every single Jew and eradicate Israel? That such an undeniable
truth is constantly denied by the press, and hence believed by the sheep,
simply boggles the mind. It is as if in the statement of purpose of the
Republican Party there was a sentence saying "We support the repeal of the
13th Amendment and the re-enslavement of blacks." Would the media ignore
this? I don't think so. Yet since Israel was formed it has been the stated
intent of all Arab states that Israel not be recognized and be destroyed.
One Arab leader, Anwar Sadat of Egypt, broke with this position... and was
assassinated.

The reason the American (and world) public do not "know" about terrorism is
that we want to speak nicely about the barbarians, partly because we want
their oil and are too sophisticated to take it like we would have in the
past. Instead of taking it, we let ignorant barbarians whose fathers herded
camels lay about in lavish palaces and bribe officials around the world.
They speak of frienship in English then publish attacks in Arabic (which the
ferengi are, of course, too stupid to translate).

Peter Jennings will never talk about the barbarism of the Arab and Muslim
cultures because that would be "judgmental", and we can only be judgmental
about America. So we moan and groan about trying to understand these
misunderstood people -- who just laugh at us as they take advantage of us.
They are adept at playing our game -- they know the words to use to make us
feel guilty (they send their children deliberately into fire fights to get a
photo op, then complain about the lack of funds to teach their children).
They don't think like Westerners, although they understand our compassion
and sense of fair play and do all they can to turn these "weaknesses"
against us.

The West closes its eyes to the barabarities of the Arab Muslim world, and
pretend they are just like us "only poor." Just ain't so, Mabel.

Post by KJ
The plot as you say, could've all just been a grand scheme concocted by our
own military leadership to get us into a situation where we can test our new
military hardware, etc. One never knows if that's how a plot is played out.
Man, you can do all the reading you'd like, and walk away from each sitting
thinking "you know", but in the back of your head still lies the questions,
and the "what ifs".

That is absurd. People want to say how incompetent Bush and his
administration is, then they want to say they are so fiendishly diabolical
as to be able to hatch and pull off the most monsterous plot in history
without a single leak. C'mon. Leave the conspiracy theories to Oliver
Sione. Logic dictates that you go with the simplest explanation that fits
the facts -- OBL planned for years to hit the US and did. Nothing outside
of conjecture has ever come out even in the conspiracy sites to dispute
that.

Post by KJ
Remember..."think outside of the box". Yeah, just because the price of gas
in California has gone down, you gotta think about who in the U.S. is
controlling that exactly. Some people think that it's the desert doods
controlling the price of our gas, but how's that? Our country has a lot of
filthy rich/powerful people, and who socialize with most of the swinging
dicks in Washington, Corporate America, and European powers. We also have a
pretty good reserve of oil. Who is to say that these rich American doods
didn't connive with each other in an attempt to make more money, connive
with the rich/powerful everywhere else around the globe, come up with the
string of terrorist acts here, and there, and play the cards so that
eventually, the U.S., and Iraq would be going toe to toe, again! And, in the
end, everyone of them conniving bastards came out even richer than they were
before! Both Bush Jr, and Saddam just might very well be the poor schmucks
caught in the middle, manipulated, and used as scapegoats in a grand money
making scheme.
W h o k n o w s ?

Well, because the same factors that affect the price of oil in the US affect
the price of oil in the rest of the world.

Don't waste your time with conspiracies. They depend upon other people
being a whole lot smarter than anyone else, and if there is one thing we
should understand about our government or industries, they are filled with
people of varying intelligence and creativity. Anyone who has ever worked
with the gummint, or worked with high-level executives or politicians,
realizes how silly conspiracies of the elite really are. Most of these
folks are just plain dumb, and couldn't keep a secret if their IRAs depended
on it.

Post by KJ
There's a whole lot of shit that can be looked at to try, and solve a
puzzle, and that's the game I like to play. Which, I'm doing with yawl right
now. Mostly, because I'm bored. It's Sunday, and I need constant breaks from
my current development project. heheheheheh.

You need to stop this conspiracy nonsense. Right now. I don't want to have
to warn you again. We are watching you. We are recording your every word.
Who would miss a MIS director of some obscure university who managed to
disappear one night, leaving behind an email trail to a girlfriend in
Topeka?

Council of 10 Pig

[KJ]

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
I think that 9-11 was just the terrorist's sore loser way of saying to the
world that they never accepted the Desert Storm defeat. And, in their
embarrassment, probably decided to finally do their thing during Bush Jr.'s
time, because yeah, they probably did think he was a wuss, and therefore,
wouldn't be met with a decisive response for war. But now, the whole globe
knows exactly what the U.S. is packing. This is significant for countries
like China, North Korea, and yeah, the former U.S.S.R. who have, or are
contemplating to flex against the U.S. We all know that it doesn't mean shit
to the terrorists, because they just can't understand, and accept the terms
of a lost cause.

But 9-11 was not at all about the Gulf War (or only marginally so). OBL is
not Iraqi, nor was he a supporter of Saddam (they certainly had contacts,
and had a mutual self-interest in their hatred for the US, but even as OBL
called on Al Qaeda to attack the US to defend Iraq he said Saddam was an
unbeliever). Indeed, he is a Saudi, who were attacked by Iraq during the
Gulf War.

Randy, we have the same TV channels, and the same news sources. Although, I
don't read the paranoid, schizophrenic web sites that you review from time
to time. Obl said what he said about Saddam, and it doesn't mean that it's
meaning is true. For all we know, they could be alumni at Al-Jafar's tavern.

Post by Congenital Kano
OBL's fatwahs against the US do specify one outgrowth of the Gulf War --
they want non-Muslims out of Saudi Arabia, including military. But OBL's
stated goals in his writings, speeches and fatwahs, is the complete
expulsion of non-Muslims from lands formerly belonging to the Caliphate --
which included much of Spain and the lands around the Mediterranean up into
the former USSR and India. He seeks a global Muslim society, based upon
14th century laws and science.
9-11 wasn't outraged Arab manhood striking back. It was an attempt to
destroy the economy and will of the US to lead to a global Islamist rule.
OBL did not "lose" anything in Desert Storm. OBL is fighting against
Westernization and progress; look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan to
see the world as he would remake it (no music, no kites, no women on the
streets, no education for women, etc.).

Of course it was an attempt. Duh...destroy the world trade center...destroys
the enemy's economy. That's pretty obvious. Obl, and Saddam says one thing
about this-n-that, but it's not like their impulses follow the same sheet of
music.

Post by Congenital Kano
Think about it -- the Suadis *won* the Gulf War... yet 15 of the 19
hijackers were Saudis. How does this fit in with the "sore loser" theory?

Huh? They didn't win the Gulf war. They *know* they got their asses whipped.
That's how it fits in, because Saddam, and others keep insisting on media
that they won.

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
Their reasons for terrorism never seem to focus on a specific, maybe, thanks
to the media who further add to the pool of speculation. But one thing is
for sure, with the amazing fact that most of the terrorists are Saudi
Arabian, and not Iraqui should be a good indicator that we need to leave a
lot of room for analysis, and yeah, speculation. There's a lot that just
don't quite figure, and it bothers me when others come off as knowing for
sure what it's all about. Wasn't it the popular belief at one point that it
all had to do with religion power struggles? Nah. I can't believe in that a
hunnert percent. Then there was the oil issue. That theory went down the
tubes. Then there was this association Bush Sr. had with some of their
leaders. Man, the whole point is,
w h o t h e h e c k r e a l l y k n o w s?

While the elite media pretend to not understand, students of the ME
understand the "roots of terror" all too well, as do everyday Arabs. The
elite media don't want to go into the details because it reflects less than
well on the Arab and Muslim philosophies and culture. In a multicultural
world, where every culture is to be valued as equal, how do you retain your
liberal viewpoints when you have to explain that at the base of terror is
not poverty (most of the hijackers were from wealthy or upper-MC families)
or oppression by the US but a barbaric culture seeking to subjugate women,
countenance slavery, murder those who do not believe as you do, and impose a
failed 14th-century judicial and economic system on a modern world?

The subjugation of women, slavery, and murder are just ingredients thrown
into the madman's cake. It comes with the territory...the lust for wealth,
and power.

Post by Congenital Kano
The media refuses to acknowledge even the simplest of realities of the ME --
that the Arabs don't want a separate Palestinian state, they want to
exterminate all the Jews and erase Israel from the map. How many statements
from Arab leader saying exactly this over the last 50 years do you need?

Sure that's what our media says that's what they've been saying. Could be
true. Could all be just a front to an underlying impulse to just own the
land, and its resources. Might not have anything to do with their religion
at all. Just some old, ignorant farts that can't stand how the other looks,
walks, talks.

Post by Congenital Kano
How many statements of purpose (such as that of HAMAS, Hezbollah and Islamic
Jihad) who state *on their websites* and in their charters that they exist
to kill every single Jew and eradicate Israel? That such an undeniable

That is a rather strong, and stupid message, to think, and, or put on a
website. Those people purported to say those things, may/may not firmly
believe that, or actually was quoted as saying that. W h o k n o w s?
Maybe, doing a whois on the domain name of the websites you read might
reveal something.

Post by Congenital Kano
truth is constantly denied by the press, and hence believed by the sheep,
simply boggles the mind. It is as if in the statement of purpose of the
Republican Party there was a sentence saying "We support the repeal of the
13th Amendment and the re-enslavement of blacks." Would the media ignore
this? I don't think so. Yet since Israel was formed it has been the stated
intent of all Arab states that Israel not be recognized and be destroyed.
One Arab leader, Anwar Sadat of Egypt, broke with this position... and was
assassinated.

You talk as if Israel was formed just yesterday when it's been around since
Jesus's time. Are you saying that this Israel hatred thing isn't a front for
something else? Like lust for control of lands...power...greed?

Post by Congenital Kano
The reason the American (and world) public do not "know" about terrorism is
that we want to speak nicely about the barbarians, partly because we want
their oil and are too sophisticated to take it like we would have in the
past. Instead of taking it, we let ignorant barbarians whose fathers herded
camels lay about in lavish palaces and bribe officials around the world.
They speak of frienship in English then publish attacks in Arabic (which the
ferengi are, of course, too stupid to translate).

You can't speak on behalf of other Americans like that. It's presumptious,
even though we both may mutually think from time to time that there are more
ignorant people residing in California than anywhere else in the globe.

Post by Congenital Kano
Peter Jennings will never talk about the barbarism of the Arab and Muslim
cultures because that would be "judgmental", and we can only be judgmental
about America. So we moan and groan about trying to understand these
misunderstood people -- who just laugh at us as they take advantage of us.

Man, a lot of those misunderstood people probably don't know half as much as
we "think", we know. So, if they're laughing at us, it's probably just a
copied response. Like when I yawn, you'll yawn.

Post by Congenital Kano
They are adept at playing our game -- they know the words to use to make us
feel guilty (they send their children deliberately into fire fights to get a
photo op, then complain about the lack of funds to teach their children).
They don't think like Westerners, although they understand our compassion
and sense of fair play and do all they can to turn these "weaknesses"
against us.

I'd think the powers that be in those lands manipulate the people for show
of support, and once gotten, the same powers unleash their mischief upon
their enemies.

Post by Congenital Kano
The West closes its eyes to the barabarities of the Arab Muslim world, and
pretend they are just like us "only poor." Just ain't so, Mabel.

Yeah, many may ignore some harsh realities, but to say that the peaceable
members of the Arab Muslim world who only want to pray, smile, eat, shit,
and screw, are not in many ways like us, is kind of snobby to say.

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
The plot as you say, could've all just been a grand scheme concocted by our
own military leadership to get us into a situation where we can test our new
military hardware, etc. One never knows if that's how a plot is played out.
Man, you can do all the reading you'd like, and walk away from each sitting
thinking "you know", but in the back of your head still lies the questions,
and the "what ifs".

That is absurd. People want to say how incompetent Bush and his
administration is, then they want to say they are so fiendishly diabolical
as to be able to hatch and pull off the most monsterous plot in history
without a single leak. C'mon. Leave the conspiracy theories to Oliver
Sione. Logic dictates that you go with the simplest explanation that fits
the facts -- OBL planned for years to hit the US and did. Nothing outside
of conjecture has ever come out even in the conspiracy sites to dispute
that.

Of course it looks absurd. There's a lot of shit that goes on even in our
front yards that's absurd. There's two parties. One that says they are
incompetent, and the other that says they ain't. Then, there's the people up
there that says, let this part leak out on purpose so we can hide this other
fact, and ...

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
Remember..."think outside of the box". Yeah, just because the price of gas
in California has gone down, you gotta think about who in the U.S. is
controlling that exactly. Some people think that it's the desert doods
controlling the price of our gas, but how's that? Our country has a lot of
filthy rich/powerful people, and who socialize with most of the swinging
dicks in Washington, Corporate America, and European powers. We also have a
pretty good reserve of oil. Who is to say that these rich American doods
didn't connive with each other in an attempt to make more money, connive
with the rich/powerful everywhere else around the globe, come up with the
string of terrorist acts here, and there, and play the cards so that
eventually, the U.S., and Iraq would be going toe to toe, again! And, in the
end, everyone of them conniving bastards came out even richer than they were
before! Both Bush Jr, and Saddam just might very well be the poor schmucks
caught in the middle, manipulated, and used as scapegoats in a grand money
making scheme.
W h o k n o w s ?

Well, because the same factors that affect the price of oil in the US affect
the price of oil in the rest of the world.

That's not necessarily true. You're a businessman, and you deal with
vendors. Vendors don't always charge their customers the same price for a
product. They price to sell based on the size of the customer. How do we
know that the powers in the U.S. that buys oil didn't get it for dirt cheap,
turn around and sell it for dirt cheap to the individual companies who then
turns around and sells it to us with a fat overhead?

Post by Congenital Kano
Don't waste your time with conspiracies. They depend upon other people
being a whole lot smarter than anyone else, and if there is one thing we
should understand about our government or industries, they are filled with
people of varying intelligence and creativity. Anyone who has ever worked
with the gummint, or worked with high-level executives or politicians,
realizes how silly conspiracies of the elite really are. Most of these
folks are just plain dumb, and couldn't keep a secret if their IRAs depended
on it.

The people up there don't have a lot of time to waste on conspiracies, but
they do have a lot of time, resources, and influence to manage the
perceptions. Does...Programming come to mind?

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
There's a whole lot of shit that can be looked at to try, and solve a
puzzle, and that's the game I like to play. Which, I'm doing with yawl right
now. Mostly, because I'm bored. It's Sunday, and I need constant breaks from
my current development project. heheheheheh.

You need to stop this conspiracy nonsense. Right now. I don't want to have
to warn you again. We are watching you. We are recording your every word.
Who would miss a MIS director of some obscure university who managed to
disappear one night, leaving behind an email trail to a girlfriend in
Topeka?
Council of 10 Pig

I only appear to take the same route home. Heheheheh.

-Kj
Is it really a hyphen, or the symbol for subtraction?

[Congenital Kano]

Post by KJ
Of course it was an attempt. Duh...destroy the world trade

center...destroys

Post by KJ
the enemy's economy. That's pretty obvious. Obl, and Saddam says one thing
about this-n-that, but it's not like their impulses follow the same sheet of
music.

I guess I don't follow you. Are you saying Saddam and OBL are in cahoots,
or working independently toward the same goal? You've lost me here and in
what you seem to say below which appears to contradict.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
Think about it -- the Suadis *won* the Gulf War... yet 15 of the 19
hijackers were Saudis. How does this fit in with the "sore loser" theory?

Huh? They didn't win the Gulf war. They *know* they got their asses whipped.
That's how it fits in, because Saddam, and others keep insisting on media
that they won.

Um, KJ, the Saudis were on *our* side. OBL is a *Saudi*, not an Iraqi. The
Saudis kept our forces there after the Gulf War on their dime to protect
them from Saddam. The Saudis sought our aid to defend themselves against
Saddam because they were next after Kuwait. Saddam had said he wanted to
control all of the oil in the ME.

The Saudis didn't get their "asses whipped", Saddam did. The Saudi military
consists of four guys with sidearms in a Mercedes ML 500.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
While the elite media pretend to not understand, students of the ME
understand the "roots of terror" all too well, as do everyday Arabs.

The

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
elite media don't want to go into the details because it reflects less

than

Post by Congenital Kano
well on the Arab and Muslim philosophies and culture. In a

multicultural

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
world, where every culture is to be valued as equal, how do you retain

your

Post by Congenital Kano
liberal viewpoints when you have to explain that at the base of terror is
not poverty (most of the hijackers were from wealthy or upper-MC families)
or oppression by the US but a barbaric culture seeking to subjugate women,
countenance slavery, murder those who do not believe as you do, and

impose

Post by KJ
a

Post by Congenital Kano
failed 14th-century judicial and economic system on a modern world?

The subjugation of women, slavery, and murder are just ingredients thrown
into the madman's cake. It comes with the territory...the lust for wealth,
and power.

Actually, it is not in every madman's cake. It is supported by the Qu'ran,
and is thus integral to Muslim society, whether enlightened or despotic.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
The media refuses to acknowledge even the simplest of realities of the

ME --

Post by Congenital Kano
that the Arabs don't want a separate Palestinian state, they want to
exterminate all the Jews and erase Israel from the map. How many

statements

Post by Congenital Kano
from Arab leader saying exactly this over the last 50 years do you need?

Sure that's what our media says that's what they've been saying. Could be
true. Could all be just a front to an underlying impulse to just own the
land, and its resources. Might not have anything to do with their religion
at all. Just some old, ignorant farts that can't stand how the other looks,
walks, talks.

KJ, this isn't in the media -- the liberal media *don't* say these things.
You have to go to commentators outside the mainstream, or to source
documents.

Here is the PLO charter: http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm Note that it
calls for the "liquidation of the Zionist presence", and claims all of
Israel for the "Palestinians".

The HAMAS charter includes the following: ""Israel will exist and will
continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated
others before it." http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
How many statements of purpose (such as that of HAMAS, Hezbollah and

Islamic

Post by Congenital Kano
Jihad) who state *on their websites* and in their charters that they exist
to kill every single Jew and eradicate Israel? That such an undeniable

That is a rather strong, and stupid message, to think, and, or put on a
website. Those people purported to say those things, may/may not firmly
believe that, or actually was quoted as saying that. W h o k n o w s?
Maybe, doing a whois on the domain name of the websites you read might
reveal something.

Jeez, KJ, do you *really* believe that these are fakes? That generations of
scholars have been duped? These documents came out *before* the web, and
were widely circulated because these fanatics were *proud* of what they
stood for. In the ME, they aren't considered radical. *You* think they are
radical, and so whack that no one would possibly publish them, but these are
people who have *kids' cartoons* training their children to be suicide
bombers, and maps that *to this day* don't show Israel in their schools.
These are parents who are treated as heros when their children blow
themselves up. These are people the Saudis did a *telethon* for, and Saddam
*publicly rewarded* for killing Jews (the more Jews a suicide bomber killed,
the more money they would get from Iraq).

You say we have the same sources, so why has all of this passed you by?
This isn't fringe stuff, or conspiracy stuff, this is standard ME knowledge.
It's not put forward by the elite media because the media is biased against
Israel and wants to portray the "poor Palestinians" in the best light.

Post by KJ
You talk as if Israel was formed just yesterday when it's been around since
Jesus's time. Are you saying that this Israel hatred thing isn't a front for
something else? Like lust for control of lands...power...greed?

You really aren't current on this ME thang, are you? Israel was founded in
1948 after the UN mandated a partition of the area into a Jewish state
(Israel) and an Arab state (Trans-Jordan, later Jordan) along the lines of
the British proposal found in the Balfour Declaration of 1920. Before that,
the land was relatively unpopulated, except for remnant Jewish settlements
and Arabs (both in villages and nomads). The Zionist return movement had
started in the late 1800s, and a number of Jewish towns had sprung up,
attracting Arab workers.

Prior to the British Mandate (where the Allies in WW1 divided up conquered
lands in the ME), the region was governed by the Ottoman Empire. Israel as
such ceased to exist in Roman times with the Dispora, when the Temple was
destroyed and Jews forced to flee the region for their lives.

Israel as we know it, and the conflict that rages today, dates effectively
to May 14, 1948.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
The reason the American (and world) public do not "know" about terrorism

is

Post by Congenital Kano
that we want to speak nicely about the barbarians, partly because we want
their oil and are too sophisticated to take it like we would have in the
past. Instead of taking it, we let ignorant barbarians whose fathers

herded

Post by Congenital Kano
camels lay about in lavish palaces and bribe officials around the world.
They speak of frienship in English then publish attacks in Arabic (which

the

Post by Congenital Kano
ferengi are, of course, too stupid to translate).

You can't speak on behalf of other Americans like that. It's presumptious,
even though we both may mutually think from time to time that there are more
ignorant people residing in California than anywhere else in the globe.

I am not speaking on behalf of Americans. I am describing their ignorance
or willful blindness to the facts of history. What do you think this whole
bruhaha about 28 pages that Bush refuses to declassify in the 9-11 report is
all about? It's about the Saudis, who spend millions in the US trying to
mold public opinion (even running commercials last year in 14 major markets
to say "The Saudis are our friends." I'm talking about the people who say
to this day, "We must get to the roots of terrorism, which is poverty." I'm
talking about the Saudi Visa Express program, which gave Saudis the
opportunity to gain US visas from *travel agents* in Saudi Arabia, not the
American consulate, said program continuing after 9-11.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
Peter Jennings will never talk about the barbarism of the Arab and Muslim
cultures because that would be "judgmental", and we can only be judgmental
about America. So we moan and groan about trying to understand these
misunderstood people -- who just laugh at us as they take advantage of us.

Man, a lot of those misunderstood people probably don't know half as much as
we "think", we know. So, if they're laughing at us, it's probably just a
copied response. Like when I yawn, you'll yawn.

Don't follow you there at all.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
They are adept at playing our game -- they know the words to use to make

us

Post by Congenital Kano
feel guilty (they send their children deliberately into fire fights to

get

Post by KJ
a

Post by Congenital Kano
photo op, then complain about the lack of funds to teach their children).
They don't think like Westerners, although they understand our compassion
and sense of fair play and do all they can to turn these "weaknesses"
against us.

I'd think the powers that be in those lands manipulate the people for show
of support, and once gotten, the same powers unleash their mischief upon
their enemies.

It goes way beyond the leaders. There is a cultural gap between Arab
Muslims and Westerners. Anyone who has dealt with them understands that to
assume they think like us is dead wrong. They assume you will cheat them,
because that's what they'd do to you if they had a chance. Compromise is a
sign of weakness, compassion means you are either gullible or weak or both.
Even the "charitable" elements of the culture grow out of the inherent
treachery -- to have any social stability, you need to set aside homicidal
and thieving impulses when someone is in your home. Even the practice of
hajib, or veiling women, comes not as a modesty provision but to protect
women and their men from kidnap and murder. Because of the early practice
of infanticide for girls (a man needs strong sons, not weak women!) there
was an imbalance of the sexes. Women were kidnapped and their husbands or
brothers who tried to protect them were killed. Beautiful women were more
desireable and thus a bigger threat. The veil and bulky clothing was to
keep temptation to a minimum.

These are people who *think* differently than we do. Failing to understand
that in today's world can be fatal.

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
The West closes its eyes to the barabarities of the Arab Muslim world, and
pretend they are just like us "only poor." Just ain't so, Mabel.

Yeah, many may ignore some harsh realities, but to say that the peaceable
members of the Arab Muslim world who only want to pray, smile, eat, shit,
and screw, are not in many ways like us, is kind of snobby to say.

Two things. Look at the major hot spots in the world today, and you
generally find Muslims involved. It isn't just a Muslim-Jew thang, or
Muslim-Christian thang. You have Muslims sowing terror and genocide in the
Balkans, the Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Malaysia, the Philippines --
where ever you find them. This "religion of peace" brings bloodshed
wherever it grows powerful... and other Muslims do not condemn or seek to
stop it. Could it be because their holy writings say that this is a good
thing?

Where are the "peaceable" Muslims in today's world? What are they doing to
control their radical brethren?

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
Well, because the same factors that affect the price of oil in the US

affect

Post by Congenital Kano
the price of oil in the rest of the world.

That's not necessarily true. You're a businessman, and you deal with
vendors. Vendors don't always charge their customers the same price for a
product. They price to sell based on the size of the customer. How do we
know that the powers in the U.S. that buys oil didn't get it for dirt cheap,
turn around and sell it for dirt cheap to the individual companies who then
turns around and sells it to us with a fat overhead?

Post by Congenital Kano
Don't waste your time with conspiracies. They depend upon other people
being a whole lot smarter than anyone else, and if there is one thing we
should understand about our government or industries, they are filled with
people of varying intelligence and creativity. Anyone who has ever worked
with the gummint, or worked with high-level executives or politicians,
realizes how silly conspiracies of the elite really are. Most of these
folks are just plain dumb, and couldn't keep a secret if their IRAs

depended

Post by Congenital Kano
on it.

The people up there don't have a lot of time to waste on conspiracies, but
they do have a lot of time, resources, and influence to manage the
perceptions. Does...Programming come to mind?

Man, you really are in a conspiracy kick. Do you think everyone else is
that much smarter than you? They ain't. That should be both reassuring and
scary. People dumb as you and me are making all the decisions that rock the
world. Again, I have had the chance to work with both high-level
politicians and business leaders ("corporate giants") who were just dumb as
posts (but photogenic!). It is frightening.

I had a business partner who believed he was being set up by a deft
conspiracy by our major contractee. he pointed to a lot of things which,
adding up, made it look like they were plotting against him to con him into
breaching his contract. I finally had to explain that it wasn't a
conspiracy, just thorough-going incompetence and sloppy bookkeeping on their
part. Ironically, patterns of mistakes can appear to be a clever plot.

At least, that's what the voices in my head tell me.

Who dere Pig?

[Congenital Kano]

Post by Congenital Kano
The Saudis didn't get their "asses whipped", Saddam did. The Saudi
military consists of four guys with sidearms in a Mercedes ML 500.

Lol. Sipping on Frappuchinos even.

*Ice cold* Frappuchinos...

Post by Congenital Kano
Here is the PLO charter: http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm Note that it
calls for the "liquidation of the Zionist presence", and claims all of
Israel for the "Palestinians".
The HAMAS charter includes the following: ""Israel will exist and will
continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated
others before it." http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Both domain names were registered by Americans.

Ah, yes. Folks like MEMRI are also 'Muricans, but provide the greatest
insights into Arab culture through translated documents. But, for that
matter, CAIR is also a 'Murican site. That doesn't tell you much.

These are historical documents, KJ. They aren't forgeries, they aren't
propaganda. Sometimes the radical charters have been ammended over time to
change the offensive wording to appeal to polictical allies, but many times
they have not (I believe the PLO has changed some wording, while HAMAS has
not).

OK, how about the official PLO website, www.fateh.net. Read their
constitution. Note well Article 12:
Article (5) Liberating Palestine is a national obligation which necessities
the materialistic and human support of the Arab Nation.


Article (6) UN projects, accords and reso, or those of any individual
cowhich undermine the Palestinian people's right in their homeland are
illegal and rejected.


Article (7) The Zionist Movement is racial, colonial and aggressive in
ideology, goals, organisation and method.


Article (8) The Israeli existence in Palestine is a Zionist invasion with a
colonial expansive base, and it is a natural ally to colonialism and
international imperialism.


Article (9) Liberating Palestine and protecting its holy places is an Arab,
religious and human obligation.


Article (10) Palestinian National Liberation Movement, "FATEH", is an
independent national revolutionary movement representing the revolutionary
vanguard of the Palestinian people.


Article (11) The crowds which participate in the revolution and liberation
are the proprietors of the Palestinian land.



Goals

Article (12) Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist
economic, political, military and cultural existence.


Article (13) Establishing an independent democratic state with complete
sovereignty on all Palestinian lands, and Jerusalem is its capital city, and
protecting the citizens' legal and equal rights without any racial or
religious discrimination

Explain how this is compatible with any "roadmap to peace". The PLO
("Fateh") rejects UN accords (i.e, the partitioning of the British mandate
into Israel and Jordan, specifically rejecting the right to existence of
Israel) and calls for the military "eradication" of Israel ("economic,
political, military and cultural").

Post by Congenital Kano
Jeez, KJ, do you *really* believe that these are fakes? That

generations

of

Post by Congenital Kano
scholars have been duped? These documents came out *before* the web, and
were widely circulated because these fanatics were *proud* of what they

I'm saying that when other American G.I.s told me to beware of the evil
Germans, I told them how nice they were to me, and my family wherever we
walked in downtown Bremen. I had to experience the thieving Turkish for
myself.

Ooookay. Not sure what that means in relation to the position papers of
terrorist organizations, but... whatever...

Post by Congenital Kano
stood for. In the ME, they aren't considered radical. *You* think they

are

Post by Congenital Kano
radical, and so whack that no one would possibly publish them, but these

are

Post by Congenital Kano
people who have *kids' cartoons* training their children to be suicide
bombers, and maps that *to this day* don't show Israel in their schools.
These are parents who are treated as heros when their children blow
themselves up. These are people the Saudis did a *telethon* for, and

Saddam
I wonder how many of those parents were the actual parents of those kids?
I'd be willing to bet that some, if not most of the young kids that get
involved with Terrorism, and the military were orphaned.

KJ, you just don't pay attention to the news. The media *always* focusses
on the families of the "martyrs" (as the British press refers to suicide
bombers). These are not orphans, they are children with parents who collect
money for their children's suicide.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ForeignBureaus/archive/200107/For20010723d.html

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/special_packages/2978906.htm

http://www.aipac.org/shahidmemo040802.pdf

http://www.middleeastfacts.com/Articles/teenage_suiciders_bombers.htm

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/06/brooks.htm

http://www.theprismgroup.org/ChildrenofMiddleEast.htm

Post by Congenital Kano
*publicly rewarded* for killing Jews (the more Jews a suicide bomber
killed, the more money they would get from Iraq).
You say we have the same sources, so why has all of this passed you by?
This isn't fringe stuff, or conspiracy stuff, this is standard ME
knowledge. It's not put forward by the elite media because the media is
biased against Israel and wants to portray the "poor Palestinians" in

the .

Post by Congenital Kano
best light

How can you say our media is biased against Israel, when their motivation

is

to get the news, any news, and get paid?

Hello? Where have you been over the last few years when the charges of
media bias have been argued back and forth? The bias was so bad in the LA
Times that there were organized boycotts where Jews canceled their
subscriptions (http://www.geocities.com/truthmasters/mar2003.html), ditto
the NY Times (http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/5/1/133522).
Others merely pointed out the bias
(http://www.jewishsf.com/bk021101/us52.shtml).

I have noted the bias for quite some time in the Chronicle. Last year there
was a headline about "bold" Palestinian gunmen going into a settlement and
shooting an infant and woman in their beds. Somehow, I don't see even the
Chronicle describing the 9-11 hijackers as "bold." "Bold" has positive
spin; Websters defines it as "fearless before danger : INTREPID : showing or
requiring a fearless daring spirit". Is this a journalistically neutral way
of describing terrorists who dress as Israeli soldiers to kill women and
infants in their sleep?

You also have the editorial policy of the Chronicle not to discuss the ages
of Israeli minors killed by terrorists (going so far as to cut them from
wire story copy that is, with that exception, the same word-for-word) while
giving the ages of Palestinian children killed or wounded. There was the
instant condemnation of the "massacre at Jenin" by the press, which turned
out to be a hoax.

All media is biased. They are not independent news organs simply seeking
the news -- each paper or news outlet has an editorial policy, has style
books which reflect that bias ("Here at the NY Times we say 'undocumented
workers', never 'illegal aliens'.") They have a target audience (which is
why the SF Chronicle has a picture on the front page or the Datebook section
of a gay person or couple almost every day) and pander to that audience.
Papers like the NY Times set the news agenda for the day; you will find most
major metro dailies echo the stories and perspective of the NY Times, as do
the network news programs.

Rarely does the anti-Jewish sentiment come across as boldly as a cartoon
that appeared in the Chicago Tribune on May 30, 2003, showing a hook-nosed
Sharon following a path of dollar bills being laid down by Bush leading to
Arafat. How many Jewish stereotypes can *you* spot in the picture?
(http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=480) The
implication, among others, is that it is Israel who must make the move to
peace, when year after year the peace process is shattered (as in the last
few days) by Arab terrorists intent on derailing it (peace doesn't fit with
their agenda of destroying Israel).

Post by Congenital Kano
Israel as we know it, and the conflict that rages today, dates effectively
to May 14, 1948.

Some of us know that the conflict that rages on in the middle east today

has

to do with land, and who owns/wants what.

Well, if you *know* that, then you are wrong. Why, then, when Rabin offered
97% of the occupied territories to Arafat did he walk out and unleash the
current intifada?

This has never been about land per se. This land has been ruled by a
variety of nations over the millenia, Arab and non-Arab. Before 1948 there
were about 500,000 people living in what is now Israel at a level of poverty
and squalor not seen outside... other Arab lands. The few oasis of
cultivation and civilization were what the Jews had carved out starting in
the late 1800s. Since 1948, the Israelis have created a miracle in the
desert far beyond what their oil-soaked neighbors have accomplished.

This is *not* about land. It is about the subjugation and eradication of
Israel. Although, in a way, it *is* about land -- denying one inch of it to
Jews. Why wasn't 97% of the land enough? 100% of the land would not have
been enough, so long as Israel existed. The land the Arabs want is
*Israel*, not the occupied territories. This is what is behind the "right
of return" Arabs demand. Some 400,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948; some 4-8
million demand to return. They would overwhelm the Jewish population and
take over the country. Israel wisely denies this.

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
The reason the American (and world) public do not "know" about

terrorism is

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
that we want to speak nicely about the barbarians, partly because we

want

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
their oil and are too sophisticated to take it like we would have in

the

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
past. Instead of taking it, we let ignorant barbarians whose fathers

herded

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
camels lay about in lavish palaces and bribe officials around the

world.

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
They speak of frienship in English then publish attacks in Arabic

(which the

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
ferengi are, of course, too stupid to translate).

You can't speak on behalf of other Americans like that. It's

presumptious,

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
even though we both may mutually think from time to time that there

are

more

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
ignorant people residing in California than anywhere else in the globe.

I am not speaking on behalf of Americans. I am describing their ignorance
or willful blindness to the facts of history. What do you think this

whole
You stated that it was, "The reason", why, and I'm saying that it's not a
common reason.

"Common reason" as "commonly believed by liberals in the Bay Area and
Jeanine Garafalo"? Or "common reason" as believed by people who study the
issues, who speak with Arabs from various ME nations, who read the fatwahs
and sermons and editorials from Arabic newspapers (thank you, MEMRI)?

There has been a great deal of research done into Islamist terrorism which
the public simply does not take the time to read. ME experts like Daniel
Pipes were warning of Islamist attacks in the US homeland long before 9-11,
and their analysis has proved spot on. You have to study this stuff,
because you won't get it in the media. They sugar coat things. You are
aware that in Tom Clancy's book "The Sum of All Fears" it was Islamic
terrorists who detonated the nuke, not white neo-Nazis as in the movie? We
are so PC we cannot even face the realities in fiction, lest we "offend"
people.

Post by Congenital Kano
bruhaha about 28 pages that Bush refuses to declassify in the 9-11

report

is

Post by Congenital Kano
all about? It's about the Saudis, who spend millions in the US trying to
mold public opinion (even running commercials last year in 14 major

markets

Post by Congenital Kano
to say "The Saudis are our friends." I'm talking about the people who say

Huh? What commericials?

I thought you said we had the same sources available. Oh, you don't "avail"
yourself of the sources...

http://www.statesman.com/nationworld/content/news/070103/0701saudi.html

Post by Congenital Kano
It goes way beyond the leaders. There is a cultural gap between Arab
Muslims and Westerners. Anyone who has dealt with them understands that

to

Post by Congenital Kano
assume they think like us is dead wrong. They assume you will cheat them,

Well, I don't know about that. I've known several half Arabian and half
Filipino families that spent half the year in Saudi, and the other half in
SF.

And how often did you discuss honesty and trust with them? Ever make a
contract with them? Ask Lololo Lee -- he used to negotiate contracts in the
ME. And a fun time was had by all. I deal with Arab Muslim shopkeepers
every day; some are still suspicious of me after doing business with me
every day for 15 years.

Post by Congenital Kano
because that's what they'd do to you if they had a chance. Compromise

is

Post by Congenital Kano
a sign of weakness, compassion means you are either gullible or weak or
both.

Nah. I don't believe that.

So I exist to educate:

" Moving to our region of the world, we find many people, even educated
?people, associating the word compromise with such negative terms as ??
'submission', 'retreat', 'capitulation', 'weakness' and 'defeat'. "
http://www.mideastweb.org/compromise.htm

Post by Congenital Kano
Even the "charitable" elements of the culture grow out of the inherent
treachery -- to have any social stability, you need to set aside homicidal
and thieving impulses when someone is in your home. Even the practice of
hajib, or veiling women, comes not as a modesty provision but to protect
women and their men from kidnap and murder. Because of the early practice
of infanticide for girls (a man needs strong sons, not weak women!) there
was an imbalance of the sexes. Women were kidnapped and their husbands or
brothers who tried to protect them were killed. Beautiful women were more
desireable and thus a bigger threat. The veil and bulky clothing was to
keep temptation to a minimum.
These are people who *think* differently than we do. Failing to

understand

Post by Congenital Kano
that in today's world can be fatal.

Dood. To me, that's totally absurd. Failing to understand that there are
armed sickos out there *is* what's fatal. Not cultural differences.

If you assume your enemy is just like you only dressed funny you will not be
prepared for their attacks. Would you force your pregnant wife to strap
dynamite to her body and blow herself up on the hopes of killing one or more
enemies? Do we place weapons in schools and hospitals? Do we crowd
civilians around military targets to either protect them or provide PR
against the "heartless enemy?" Do we behead the wives and children of
suspected traitors to keep them in line? Do we surgically remove women's
clitori so they feel less sexual stimulation and are less likely to stray?
Do we consider it honorable for a brother or father to kill their sister or
daughter because she "shames" the family by dating a non-Muslim? Do we
believe that women should remain uneducated and sequestered in the home,
only to go out with a male relative? Do we stone a women who has been raped
because she has shamed her husband or family?

I think you recognize cultural differences between the Pinas and the States.
Why would you not believe there would be greater differences between
cultures that do not share a common language, religion and history?

Post by Congenital Kano
Two things. Look at the major hot spots in the world today, and you
generally find Muslims involved. It isn't just a Muslim-Jew thang, or
Muslim-Christian thang. You have Muslims sowing terror and genocide in

the

Post by Congenital Kano
Balkans, the Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Malaysia, the

Philippines --

Post by Congenital Kano
where ever you find them. This "religion of peace" brings bloodshed
wherever it grows powerful... and other Muslims do not condemn or seek to
stop it. Could it be because their holy writings say that this is a good
thing?

Dood. It's not the religion that causes death. It's the men that possesses
the sick mind, the greed, and the lust for power.

Why is the common denominator Islam? When you look at trouble spot after
trouble spot, and in each case there are Islamic radicals involved in
diverse parts of the world who don't have ethnic ties, you have to look for
the common denominator.

Post by Congenital Kano
Where are the "peaceable" Muslims in today's world? What are they doing

to

Post by Congenital Kano
control their radical brethren?

This is like saying, "What was Kj doing to prevent Joeker from going

madcow

on Renowl". Dood! Are you getting enough food? I need to bring you to
Peppermill again. Nah. Let's do Black Angus.

If a Catholic flew a plane into the Dome of the Rock claiming to do it in
the name of Jesus and the Church, the Pope and Catholic leaders from every
nation would stand up and denounce the act; Catholics and Christians from
around the world would contribute generously to rebuilding the shrine, and
dedicate themselves to finding any others in the plot. After 9-11 there was
virtual *silence* from the Muslim clergy, in the US and abroad. What weak
statements that were made (and never by the main leaders) said they
regretted the loss of life "but you should think about your actions that
have brought this on you." Arabs in the US were more concerned about how
*they* might be targeted. The Arab-American groups like CAIR spent more
time denouncing racial profiling and potential abuse than stating that these
terrorists did not represent Islam. Tony Blair and Dubya were more
apologetic than the Muslims were, saying that this was not "true Islam."

Sorry, look at the history of Islam. Mohammed was a warrior who recorded
many battles to subjugate people to his beliefs by the sword in the Qu'ran,
and the history of Islam has been one of bloody conquest and subjugation
ever since. In the last 60 years, almost every armed invasion of another
country has been by Muslims.

Nah. It's my way of getting a vibe for people, places, and things. Don't
take offense, but if I thought like the responses you typed, there's no

way

I would've shared a table with you, a strange white guy at Peppermill in
Daly city. I don't know Randy, but it shore feels like you're testing me

to

see if I really am racist. Which, I'm not!...ya damn honkey.

Don't confuse racism with appreciation of cultural differences. Muslims are
not of a particular race, but they share certain cultural traits based upon
their belief system.

So, uh...when we gonna do Black Angus?

*I'm* still waiting on nachos...

Maria *loves* it when I eat them...

Bastos Pig

[Clueless Joe Kano]

Post by KJ

Post by KJ
Either way, the terrorists decided to do it during Bush Jr.'s time, and
not Clinton's. If you want to think there's no significance to that,

which I

Post by KJ
do, go ahead.

Think, KJ. The plot started in 1996. Who knew who would be President in
2001 in 1996? What about in 1998 when the CIA first heard about a plan to
fly planes into the WTC?
9-11 had nothing to do with Bush. It had everything to do with the
perception that the US would not respond to terror strikes and was a paper
tiger.
Do the math Pig

We have a long history of warfare that is significant, even the desert doods
aren't that dumb to ignore the might of our military force, and weaponry.
It's one of the reasons why Russia could never get the nerve to fully go toe
to toe with the U.S. Now, I know that Iraq's military leadership has made
fools of themselves on, and off the battlefield during the latest war, but
their soldiers in the trenches knew what kind of force they'd have to reckon
with in the end, thanks to the Gulf war.

<schnipped for brebity>

Even so, other countries don't understand the U.S. all that well and
other cultures constantly underestimate or misjudge U.S. resolve. Yes
we talk it to death and protests make big news items at home and
abroad and this gives them the wrong impression. You see, in most of
their cultures the only discussion that takes place is whose turn it
is with the camel at night.

Arabic cultures don't have a long history with democracy (much like
Africa oddly enough) and so view any debate about policy as a weakness
in the government or country. To their view, a strong leader would
take charge and make the tough decisions without debate. That runs
anathema to western democracies and the U.S. in particular. They see
public debate and discourse as a lack of resolve because something
like that would never be allowed in their sandbox.

[Congenital Kano]

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Even so, other countries don't understand the U.S. all that well and
other cultures constantly underestimate or misjudge U.S. resolve. Yes
we talk it to death and protests make big news items at home and
abroad and this gives them the wrong impression. You see, in most of
their cultures the only discussion that takes place is whose turn it
is with the camel at night.

Really LOL! I needed that today.

Employee Problems Pig

[KJ]

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
<schnipped for brebity>
Even so, other countries don't understand the U.S. all that well and
other cultures constantly underestimate or misjudge U.S. resolve. Yes
we talk it to death and protests make big news items at home and
abroad and this gives them the wrong impression. You see, in most of
their cultures the only discussion that takes place is whose turn it
is with the camel at night.

Lmao! Maybe, we should trade our horses for their camels. The horny
Americans out there with no cars-n-women would say, "now that's practical!".

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Arabic cultures don't have a long history with democracy (much like
Africa oddly enough) and so view any debate about policy as a weakness
in the government or country. To their view, a strong leader would
take charge and make the tough decisions without debate. That runs
anathema to western democracies and the U.S. in particular. They see
public debate and discourse as a lack of resolve because something
like that would never be allowed in their sandbox.

Ironically, that same mentality exists in some branches of our Government,
Corporate America, and Academia. Isn't that amazing? Seriously though, your
point is pretty much the popular image we have of the ME.

[joekerr]

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?

...snipped...
OK Hudsy whatever you say BWAHAHAHAHA!

Look. I'm not Hudsy, a.k.a. Hudson Jackson, a.k.a, MH2. Hudsy is/was
someone's identity who supposedly lived in New Jersey, attended College
there, and purported to graduate sometime in the late 90s.

Hudsy from VIRGINIA used the same delusional attempts at logic that
you are- hence the insult.

Whoa! I *think* I'm beginning to understand what's going on with you
joekerr. You actually took Hudsy !!!seriously?!!!.

No but it's obvious you did- why else would you cry like a little
girl at the comparison??? Bwahahahahahah!

I'm too blunt/goofy/cool to be Hudsy.
See above.....

Post by KJ
-Kj
M'ang Mike says "You are being programmed joekerr. Mwuuuuhahahahahah."

Moron Mike can kiss my ass!

Dood. R e l a x. Mike was a sock puppet, which I copped to a long time ago

DUH!!! YOU WERE OUTED DUH!!!!!

[KJ]

Post by joekerr

Post by KJ

Did September 11 mark 'new stage of world history'?

...snipped...
OK Hudsy whatever you say BWAHAHAHAHA!

Look. I'm not Hudsy, a.k.a. Hudson Jackson, a.k.a, MH2. Hudsy is/was
someone's identity who supposedly lived in New Jersey, attended College
there, and purported to graduate sometime in the late 90s.

Hudsy from VIRGINIA used the same delusional attempts at logic that
you are- hence the insult.

Whoa! I *think* I'm beginning to understand what's going on with you
joekerr. You actually took Hudsy !!!seriously?!!!.

No but it's obvious you did- why else would you cry like a little
girl at the comparison??? Bwahahahahahah!

You probably imagine me wearing school girl outfits as well.

Post by joekerr

I'm too blunt/goofy/cool to be Hudsy.
See above.....

Post by KJ
-Kj

M'ang Mike says "You are being programmed joekerr. Mwuuhahahahahah."
Moron Mike can kiss my ass!

Dood. R e l a x. Mike was a sock puppet, which I copped to a long time ago

DUH!!! YOU WERE OUTED DUH!!!!!

Lol. You didn't even know who Mike was. You clueless dope.

-Kj
Dances on Wolves.

[Congenital Kano]

Post by KJ
You probably imagine me wearing school girl outfits as well.

Now *that* is a hideous image. Time to look over my nekkid Jennifer Aniston
picture collection to erase that horror from my mind...

Grossed-out Pig

[Clueless Joe Kano]

Dood...dunno that it was specific to Dubya. The hijackers were taking
flight training in the U.S. before the 2000 general election was held.
In fact, I'd say the planning went back to the late 90's.

The whole terrorism thing has a long history and while they might not
have whacked such high profile targets and killed as many in one round
the only significance to the Twin Towers/Pentagon/Pennsylvania attacks
are that they were inside the U.S. rather than in Europe or the Middle
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

[KJ]

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Dood...dunno that it was specific to Dubya. The hijackers were taking
flight training in the U.S. before the 2000 general election was held.
In fact, I'd say the planning went back to the late 90's.

93 is when the first wtc attack happened. So, yeah, you're correct.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
The whole terrorism thing has a long history and while they might not
have whacked such high profile targets and killed as many in one round
the only significance to the Twin Towers/Pentagon/Pennsylvania attacks
are that they were inside the U.S. rather than in Europe or the Middle

You get a free Cuban cigar of course, because that was the main
significance. But the timing of it...that could be very significant too. Why
did it happen while dubya was in office, and not Clinton? Why did it happen
after the dot com bust, and not during?

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.
.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

That's correct. Maybe, not. Looking at how mismanaged communications on
America's part sunk Pearl Harbor, it looks like the same thing happened for
tt/pent/penns. Maybe not, maybe it was overlooked on purpose to justify an
attack on Iraq, boost the economy, expose Enron. W h o k n o w s? You gotta
play the facts, opinions, and theories, conspiracy or not, to see what's
behind it all.

-Kj

[Congenital Kano]

Post by KJ
You get a free Cuban cigar of course, because that was the main
significance. But the timing of it...that could be very significant too. Why
did it happen while dubya was in office, and not Clinton? Why did it happen
after the dot com bust, and not during?

Um, because that was when the planning begin in '96 came together? All of
the hijackers were not in position (or in the country) before Dubya was
inaugurated.

The timing was "when we are ready". It was not "when we think is the best
time."

Again, the plan was set in motion years before it was known who would run
for President. You think they *wouldn't* have hit us if Al Gore were
President? They would have said "Abort this plan, we're worried about Da
Man in the White House. He's a real mean mofo..."

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.
.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

That's correct. Maybe, not. Looking at how mismanaged communications on
America's part sunk Pearl Harbor, it looks like the same thing happened for
tt/pent/penns. Maybe not, maybe it was overlooked on purpose to justify an
attack on Iraq, boost the economy, expose Enron. W h o k n o w s? You gotta
play the facts, opinions, and theories, conspiracy or not, to see what's
behind it all.

Sure. We willingly kill 3000 people, spend billions of dollars for the
military actions, and take a hit economically that cost trillions of dollars
to... boost the economy?

C'mon, KJ! What you smokin'? Why ain't you sharin'?

Bogart Pig

[KJ]

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ
You get a free Cuban cigar of course, because that was the main
significance. But the timing of it...that could be very significant too. Why
did it happen while dubya was in office, and not Clinton? Why did it happen
after the dot com bust, and not during?

Um, because that was when the planning begin in '96 came together? All of
the hijackers were not in position (or in the country) before Dubya was
inaugurated.
The timing was "when we are ready". It was not "when we think is the best
time."
Again, the plan was set in motion years before it was known who would run
for President. You think they *wouldn't* have hit us if Al Gore were
President? They would have said "Abort this plan, we're worried about Da
Man in the White House. He's a real mean mofo..."

They could've said, "Let's wait. This guy is making money flow, and when
money flows, we have money, and if we have money, then we are living uuu uuu
guud".

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.
.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

That's correct. Maybe, not. Looking at how mismanaged communications on
America's part sunk Pearl Harbor, it looks like the same thing happened for
tt/pent/penns. Maybe not, maybe it was overlooked on purpose to justify an
attack on Iraq, boost the economy, expose Enron. W h o k n o w s? You gotta
play the facts, opinions, and theories, conspiracy or not, to see what's
behind it all.

Sure. We willingly kill 3000 people, spend billions of dollars for the
military actions, and take a hit economically that cost trillions of dollars
to... boost the economy?

Isn't it a known fact that war time operations in the land creates jobs to
fill the need of military hardware suppliers, and their suppliers?

Post by Congenital Kano
C'mon, KJ! What you smokin'? Why ain't you sharin'?
Bogart Pig

What? You wanna smoke my keyboard?

-Kj
Gimme a wall charge mian.

[Congenital Kano]

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
Sure. We willingly kill 3000 people, spend billions of dollars for the
military actions, and take a hit economically that cost trillions of
dollars to... boost the economy?

Isn't it a known fact that war time operations in the land creates jobs to
fill the need of military hardware suppliers, and their suppliers?

The airline industries alone lost 200,000 jobs in 2001-2002. No military
buildup will make that up.

Doin' the math Pig

[KJ]

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Congenital Kano
Sure. We willingly kill 3000 people, spend billions of dollars for the
military actions, and take a hit economically that cost trillions of
dollars to... boost the economy?

Isn't it a known fact that war time operations in the land creates jobs to
fill the need of military hardware suppliers, and their suppliers?

The airline industries alone lost 200,000 jobs in 2001-2002. No military
buildup will make that up.
Doin' the math Pig

Now, cities have more male, and female escorts, the Internet has more webcam
operators, and Porn sites have newer, and fresher quality content than ever
before. One industry's loss, is another's gain.

-Kj
street calculus Pig

[Robert Chin]

Post by KJ
Now, cities have more male, and female escorts, the Internet has more webcam
operators, and Porn sites have newer, and fresher quality content than ever
before. One industry's loss, is another's gain.

When as the last time YOU were on a plane? Have you EVER seen a flight
attendant for any major American airline? One industry's loss is watering
down another I'd say. Yeeeesh....

ScaredO'PornPig
-remembers a time when stewardess = "pretty hot chick"

[KJ]

Post by Robert Chin

Post by KJ
Now, cities have more male, and female escorts, the Internet has more webcam
operators, and Porn sites have newer, and fresher quality content than ever
before. One industry's loss, is another's gain.

When as the last time YOU were on a plane? Have you EVER seen a flight
attendant for any major American airline? One industry's loss is watering
down another I'd say. Yeeeesh....
ScaredO'PornPig
-remembers a time when stewardess = "pretty hot chick"

Man...I can't remember the last time I was a plane. Maybe, four, five years
ago? My last memory of riding a plane was how pissed I was at the dumb bimbo
who scheduled my second trip to Amsterdam in coach. I sat in a really tight
chair, next to a large, fat man too. I wondered if he was gonna explode, and
take us with him. My first business trip there was cool. First class.
Corporate apartment. Red light district one block away. Friggin amazing it
was. Surreal at times.

[Robert Chin]

Post by KJ
Man...I can't remember the last time I was a plane. Maybe, four, five years
ago? My last memory of riding a plane was how pissed I was at the dumb bimbo
who scheduled my second trip to Amsterdam in coach. I sat in a really tight
chair, next to a large, fat man too. I wondered if he was gonna explode, and
take us with him. My first business trip there was cool. First class.
Corporate apartment. Red light district one block away. Friggin amazing it
was. Surreal at times.

Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to Amsterdam
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?

FunnyHowItHappensLikeThatPig
-remembers fondly the rest of Randy's "How I lost My Virginity to an
Amsterdam Hooker" post...

[LeeBat]

Post by Robert Chin
Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to Amsterdam
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?
FunnyHowItHappensLikeThatPig
-remembers fondly the rest of Randy's "How I lost My Virginity to an
Amsterdam Hooker" post...

Ah, I recall that post.

What amazed me was when Randy revealed the Amsterdam hooker's
name was La Shaneequa.

LeeBat
oooh oooh, dat gal sho' do get around ......

[Tansong Isda]

Post by Robert Chin

Post by KJ
Man...I can't remember the last time I was a plane. Maybe, four, five

years

Post by KJ
ago? My last memory of riding a plane was how pissed I was at the dumb

bimbo

Post by KJ
who scheduled my second trip to Amsterdam in coach. I sat in a really

tight

Post by KJ
chair, next to a large, fat man too. I wondered if he was gonna explode,

and

Post by KJ
take us with him. My first business trip there was cool. First class.
Corporate apartment. Red light district one block away. Friggin amazing it
was. Surreal at times.

Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to Amsterdam
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?

That could be me...

Post by Robert Chin
FunnyHowItHappensLikeThatPig
-remembers fondly the rest of Randy's "How I lost My Virginity to an
Amsterdam Hooker" post...

I love the cheese. Fuck the hooker...Ooops, sin't that what it is for?

[Robert Chin]

Post by Tansong Isda

Post by Robert Chin
Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to Amsterdam
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?

That could be me...

No...no...I don't think so. Randy never used the phrase "good looking" or
"intelligent" to describe the guy...

KJIsAFilipinoBeingRobbedOfDignityPig
-except for when Clueless is running around nekkid, snapping towels at ours
asses, I love the locker room atmosphere...

[Tansong Isda]

Post by KJ

Post by Tansong Isda

Post by Robert Chin
Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to

Amsterdam

Post by Tansong Isda

Post by Robert Chin
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?

That could be me...

No...no...I don't think so. Randy never used the phrase "good looking" or
"intelligent" to describe the guy...
KJIsAFilipinoBeingRobbedOfDignityPig
-except for when Clueless is running around nekkid, snapping towels at ours
asses, I love the locker room atmosphere...

I am a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagoong smelling Mexican
looking...and probably nothing, eh? person. I am ugly enough to be that too.

[KJ]

Post by Tansong Isda

Post by Robert Chin

Post by Tansong Isda

Post by Robert Chin
Funny...I remember a post by Congenital about a flight he took to Amsterdam
sitting next to a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagaoong smelling,
Mexican looking...hey, it's probably nothing, eh?

That could be me...

No...no...I don't think so. Randy never used the phrase "good looking" or
"intelligent" to describe the guy...
KJIsAFilipinoBeingRobbedOfDignityPig
-except for when Clueless is running around nekkid, snapping towels at ours
asses, I love the locker room atmosphere...

I am a balut sucking, San Miguel guzzling, bagoong smelling Mexican
looking...and probably nothing, eh? person. I am ugly enough to be that too.

Hi.....my name is KJ.....I have a problem....I'm a balutaholic

[ All ]...HI KJ.

-Kj
Balutaholics Anonymous

[Tansong Isda]

Post by KJ
Hi.....my name is KJ.....I have a problem....I'm a balutaholic
[ All ]...HI KJ.
-Kj
Balutaholics Anonymous

And take that with a bottle of Chianti, slurp!

[Clueless Joe Kano]

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Dood...dunno that it was specific to Dubya. The hijackers were taking
flight training in the U.S. before the 2000 general election was held.
In fact, I'd say the planning went back to the late 90's.

93 is when the first wtc attack happened. So, yeah, you're correct.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
The whole terrorism thing has a long history and while they might not
have whacked such high profile targets and killed as many in one round
the only significance to the Twin Towers/Pentagon/Pennsylvania attacks
are that they were inside the U.S. rather than in Europe or the Middle

You get a free Cuban cigar of course, because that was the main
significance. But the timing of it...that could be very significant too. Why
did it happen while dubya was in office, and not Clinton? Why did it happen
after the dot com bust, and not during?

Simple timing. The pilots started their training in 1999 and 2000.
It takes normally about a year to train for the Commercial license (a
precursor to heavy jet training). Prior to that you'd have to
identify who the pilots would be, get them into the U.S. on a student
visa, make financial arrangements and so on while not being
conspicuous.

Had they started earlier, it could've happened under Clinton and
before the bust. In fact, if I were OBL I'd have wanted to make it
happen during the boom to destablize the markets.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.
.

The planning behind this wasn't anymore complex than a truck bombing
in the Middle East. The only difference was getting 4 pilots through
flight training. That cost (my guess) around $120,000 plus living
costs. The jets used were free, no bombs needed to be built or
supplies smuggled. What is so complicated? You give al Qaeda credit
for more than they deserve.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

That's correct. Maybe, not. Looking at how mismanaged communications on
America's part sunk Pearl Harbor, it looks like the same thing happened for
tt/pent/penns. Maybe not, maybe it was overlooked on purpose to justify an
attack on Iraq, boost the economy, expose Enron. W h o k n o w s? You gotta
play the facts, opinions, and theories, conspiracy or not, to see what's
behind it all.

Sure. One thing I lernt in pilot school is that every accident is a
chain of events. Breaking one event in the chain changes the outcome.
Likewise this thing. Weaknesses in airport security, border
screening and fumbling of intel between agencies all added up to
"boom".

I know I'm sounding pro-Dubya but I'm not. I just don't buy into the
whole 'get even with Bush' or 'conspiracy to invade Iraq/boost the
economy' thing. Think about it...since Sept. 11th the watchword in
the U.S. has been paranoia. How does that help the economy? "Gee
Mildred, maybe we won't take that vacation to Disneyland this year cuz
those Arabs might try to blow it up." And if OBL was such a good
planner who wanted to get even with Bush, why pick a day to attack
when he's not even in Washington? Better yet, why not hijack a plane
in Miami and crash it at the school he was visiting in Tampa?
Nah...it just doesn't pass the make sense test to me.

If you want to make the assertion that OBL has been beneficial to
Bush, he has. His popularity went up at home, folks like Randy became
overnight conservatives, the whole color coded alert system promotes
paranoia and there have been changes to how free and open our society
is. I doubt that Bush would've had the strong support at home to
attack Iraq without OBL's little party. So OBL is maybe 1 for 3
having caused us to disrupt our lives with the unintended effect of
strengthening Bush's position and bringing further intervention in the
Middle East (Afghanistan and Iraq so far).

[KJ]

Post by Clueless Joe Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Dood...dunno that it was specific to Dubya. The hijackers were taking
flight training in the U.S. before the 2000 general election was held.
In fact, I'd say the planning went back to the late 90's.

93 is when the first wtc attack happened. So, yeah, you're correct.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
The whole terrorism thing has a long history and while they might not
have whacked such high profile targets and killed as many in one round
the only significance to the Twin Towers/Pentagon/Pennsylvania attacks
are that they were inside the U.S. rather than in Europe or the Middle

You get a free Cuban cigar of course, because that was the main
significance. But the timing of it...that could be very significant too. Why
did it happen while dubya was in office, and not Clinton? Why did it happen
after the dot com bust, and not during?

Simple timing. The pilots started their training in 1999 and 2000.
It takes normally about a year to train for the Commercial license (a
precursor to heavy jet training). Prior to that you'd have to
identify who the pilots would be, get them into the U.S. on a student
visa, make financial arrangements and so on while not being
conspicuous.

True.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Had they started earlier, it could've happened under Clinton and
before the bust. In fact, if I were OBL I'd have wanted to make it
happen during the boom to destablize the markets.

Would it have succeeded in destroying the dot come economy?

Post by Clueless Joe Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.

The planning behind this wasn't anymore complex than a truck bombing
in the Middle East. The only difference was getting 4 pilots through
flight training. That cost (my guess) around $120,000 plus living
costs. The jets used were free, no bombs needed to be built or
supplies smuggled. What is so complicated? You give al Qaeda credit
for more than they deserve.

Yeah, but you're fogetting the logistics. Their housing, rental cars,
planned trips to shoot photos of possible targets, then synchronizing their
info with their honchos, etc. That, and more is pretty complex.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
As for meticulously planned and executed, maybe. I tend to think that
bin Laden got very lucky because we were very lax.

That's correct. Maybe, not. Looking at how mismanaged communications on
America's part sunk Pearl Harbor, it looks like the same thing happened for
tt/pent/penns. Maybe not, maybe it was overlooked on purpose to justify an
attack on Iraq, boost the economy, expose Enron. W h o k n o w s? You gotta
play the facts, opinions, and theories, conspiracy or not, to see what's
behind it all.

Sure. One thing I lernt in pilot school is that every accident is a
chain of events. Breaking one event in the chain changes the outcome.
Likewise this thing. Weaknesses in airport security, border
screening and fumbling of intel between agencies all added up to
"boom".

Right. Another Pearl Harbor lesson in bad communications, and not enough
empowerment where it would've counted.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
I know I'm sounding pro-Dubya but I'm not. I just don't buy into the
whole 'get even with Bush' or 'conspiracy to invade Iraq/boost the
economy' thing. Think about it...since Sept. 11th the watchword in
the U.S. has been paranoia. How does that help the economy? "Gee
Mildred, maybe we won't take that vacation to Disneyland this year cuz
those Arabs might try to blow it up." And if OBL was such a good
planner who wanted to get even with Bush, why pick a day to attack
when he's not even in Washington? Better yet, why not hijack a plane
in Miami and crash it at the school he was visiting in Tampa?
Nah...it just doesn't pass the make sense test to me.

Sure, that conspiracy, and others have a lot of holes leaking theories, and
the questions you posed are in the back of so many minds. Why this, and why
not that. The fact that OBL didn't hit Bush could lend itself to a
conspiracy where they're conniving with each other. "Tell you what Bush, why
don't I coordinate an attack on 3 points of interest, you blame me,
therefore, justifying a search-n-destroy mission in Afghanistan, then when
people aren't looking, blame Iraq, get your people in, and destroy our
mutual enemy. But you must ensure that I'm not touched".

Post war Iraq...Have we caught OBL yet? Heck. We don't even have Saddam.
Whattup wid dat? Maybe both of them are sipping on Margaritas on some
private island, laughing at Americans for wasting their time on wondering if
Tupac Shakur is really alive, because...just how does he manage to get newer
songs released on the radio when he's supposed to be dead? Oh Geezo.

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
If you want to make the assertion that OBL has been beneficial to
Bush, he has. His popularity went up at home, folks like Randy became
overnight conservatives, the whole color coded alert system promotes
paranoia and there have been changes to how free and open our society
is. I doubt that Bush would've had the strong support at home to
attack Iraq without OBL's little party. So OBL is maybe 1 for 3
having caused us to disrupt our lives with the unintended effect of
strengthening Bush's position and bringing further intervention in the
Middle East (Afghanistan and Iraq so far).

Then again, Bush, OBL, and Saddam could just be puppets in the mind of some
sick, filthy rich, quasi-conservative, liberal, right wing, left wing,
chicken wing, power wielding, ego-maniac. "Heh. The world is running amok
with porno web sites, SUVs, resorts for Adult Swingers, and too many
commercials on the tube. Think it's time to fuck with the minds of my two
favorite pawns - Bush, and Saddam".

Well. You never know.

-Kj
Only the shadow knows.

[KJ]

<snippage for brevity>

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Had they started earlier, it could've happened under Clinton and
before the bust. In fact, if I were OBL I'd have wanted to make it
happen during the boom to destablize the markets.

Would it have succeeded in destroying the dot come economy?

The dot com boom started tanking in 2000, a year before the attacks.
My employer was one of the last and the proverbial patis hit our fan
in December 2000. By September, we were already fully in the tank.

Was it 2000? I guess it might've been that year for the rest of youse guys.
Heh. We programmers get in a year or two earlier I suppose.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
East. The USS Cole, the Khobar Towers attack, the Embassy bombings,
all the way back to the Beirut Marine barracks bombing all come to
mind.

Yes, it does. But the planning that went behind them, wasn't as complex.
More like a series of small weapons fire aimed at various points to keep the
enemy's attention scattered.

The planning behind this wasn't anymore complex than a truck bombing
in the Middle East. The only difference was getting 4 pilots through
flight training. That cost (my guess) around $120,000 plus living
costs. The jets used were free, no bombs needed to be built or
supplies smuggled. What is so complicated? You give al Qaeda credit
for more than they deserve.

Yeah, but you're fogetting the logistics. Their housing, rental cars,
planned trips to shoot photos of possible targets, then synchronizing their
info with their honchos, etc. That, and more is pretty complex.

Why take photos of the targets and synchronize? OBL didn't intend to
actually cause the collapse of the WTC. That was an unplanned
'bonus'. He just intended to wreck havoc. You watch too many good
spy movies dood. This wasn't much more complex than someone holding
up a 7-11. Send 4 Arabs to U.S. flight school (many schools used to
advertise in foreign flight mags and say they'd do the visa
paperwork), sneak another 15 into the country, some via Canada.
Hijack 4 passenger jets on a widely known light travel day (Tuesday).
Find several targets well marked on any map.

7-11 holdups remind of the movie, "Raising Arizona". Actual holdups I'm
sure, are conducted in the same frantic fashion. Enyhow...even with your
summary, it still seems complex, because there's a lot of variables you have
to consider. A 7-11 hold up has much less.

Don't confuse large or cumbersome with complex (though this wasn't
large either). Complex would be infiltrating NASDAQ and manipulating
the prices to make a profit. BTW, OBL probably financed the whole
thing by some short sales made just before. He's shrewd.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
Sure. One thing I lernt in pilot school is that every accident is a
chain of events. Breaking one event in the chain changes the outcome.
Likewise this thing. Weaknesses in airport security, border
screening and fumbling of intel between agencies all added up to
"boom".

Right. Another Pearl Harbor lesson in bad communications, and not enough
empowerment where it would've counted.

"Those who do not learn from history..." Pearl Harbor isn't exactly a
good analogy though. Back then we knew what the Japanese were up to
and still fumbled the ball. This time it was a surprise helped along
by general laxness, bureaucracy and ineptitude. To which we've added
more bureaucracy in the form of the Dept. of Homeland Security. Yeah,
that'll fix the problem.

Heh. A recruiter from that dept called, and asked if I can come back out to
play. Not sure if I can handle the pressures of an additional wife, but at
least this one has more positives than the actual one. Heheheheh.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
I know I'm sounding pro-Dubya but I'm not. I just don't buy into the
whole 'get even with Bush' or 'conspiracy to invade Iraq/boost the
economy' thing. Think about it...since Sept. 11th the watchword in
the U.S. has been paranoia. How does that help the economy? "Gee
Mildred, maybe we won't take that vacation to Disneyland this year cuz
those Arabs might try to blow it up." And if OBL was such a good
planner who wanted to get even with Bush, why pick a day to attack
when he's not even in Washington? Better yet, why not hijack a plane
in Miami and crash it at the school he was visiting in Tampa?
Nah...it just doesn't pass the make sense test to me.

Sure, that conspiracy, and others have a lot of holes leaking theories, and
the questions you posed are in the back of so many minds. Why this, and why
not that. The fact that OBL didn't hit Bush could lend itself to a
conspiracy where they're conniving with each other. "Tell you what Bush, why
don't I coordinate an attack on 3 points of interest, you blame me,
therefore, justifying a search-n-destroy mission in Afghanistan, then when
people aren't looking, blame Iraq, get your people in, and destroy our
mutual enemy. But you must ensure that I'm not touched".

Too far fetched for me though it would make a good movie ala Oliver
Stone's "JFK".

Man, in this world, nothing's too far fetched. I'm one of those parents
that'll believe his kid when he says he spotted a UFO. You never know dood.
heheheh

Post by KJ
Post war Iraq...Have we caught OBL yet? Heck. We don't even have Saddam.
Whattup wid dat? Maybe both of them are sipping on Margaritas on some
private island, laughing at Americans for wasting their time on wondering if
Tupac Shakur is really alive, because...just how does he manage to get newer
songs released on the radio when he's supposed to be dead? Oh Geezo.

I wish I knew. (Where OBL and Saddam were...not the mystery of
Tupac.) I could use $25 million. I do think we haven't looked hard
enough for OBL though. We can play the 1000 pound gorilla in Iraq but
not in Pakistan.

What amazes me is that they can hang a killer based on DNA evidence. Track
his/her actions from Valhalla all the way to Eden, but they can't find Obl,
and Saddam? Something's up man. I'm tellin' ya.

Post by KJ

Post by Clueless Joe Kano
If you want to make the assertion that OBL has been beneficial to
Bush, he has. His popularity went up at home, folks like Randy became
overnight conservatives, the whole color coded alert system promotes
paranoia and there have been changes to how free and open our society
is. I doubt that Bush would've had the strong support at home to
attack Iraq without OBL's little party. So OBL is maybe 1 for 3
having caused us to disrupt our lives with the unintended effect of
strengthening Bush's position and bringing further intervention in the
Middle East (Afghanistan and Iraq so far).

Then again, Bush, OBL, and Saddam could just be puppets in the mind of some
sick, filthy rich, quasi-conservative, liberal, right wing, left wing,
chicken wing, power wielding, ego-maniac. "Heh. The world is running amok
with porno web sites, SUVs, resorts for Adult Swingers, and too many
commercials on the tube. Think it's time to fuck with the minds of my two
favorite pawns - Bush, and Saddam".
Well. You never know.

I'd write that book KJ. Then I can say..."I knew Kenny Joe when he
was just a posting to SCF!"

I wish I had the talent for bookwriting. I once toyed with the idea of
writing a script for a movie containing intrigue, action, adventure, and the
occasional Pilipino sighting. Everytime we watch a flik, and we see someone
that looks Pinoy, or see what we think is a Filipino last name in the
credits, all of us are like..."hOY PINOY!".

Post by KJ
-Kj
Only the shadow knows.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men? Da Shadow do!"