Discussion:
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
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arah
2007-03-21 09:55:47 UTC
Permalink
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
military and my upbringing was very strict. My father was very racist,
and because of this, I also was very racist myself until about the age
of 24. I can remember as a child listening to my father lambaste and
attack Arabs and Muslims and bash their religion, their way of life,
and their race. As this was the way I was raised, this is the position
I took as well.

I had a very troubled childhood, as the above can only begin to
describe. My father was an alcoholic and very physically abusive. I
grew up with the constant fear of violence against myself, my mother,
my brother and my sister. Coming from such a background, it only
seemed natural that I would seek a group of people to replace the
family life that I did not have at home. The problem is, with the way
I was raised, the people I sought this companionship from were the
worst of the worst.

For several years, I was heavily involved in the racist skinhead
movement. As with anything else in my life, I was not content to be a
follower, but always enjoyed taking the lead. My involvement in the
neo-Nazi skinhead movement was the same. I was well known and feared
in the town where I grew up.

My longing for family and friends, however, never killed the seed in
my heart that told me what I was doing was wrong and unjust. I
remember a Mexican schoolmate of mine asking me, when I was 16, "Why
do you hang out with those losers, you are better than that." He was
right, but I guess there was a part of me that, even though I hated my
father for what he was doing to the family, wanted to be just like
him. That is where my racism and hatred came from.

The situation at home became worse for me, so I was forced to move out
on my own. I think from this moment this is what sealed my future as a
Muslim getting away from my father and the hatred that he felt, and
experiencing the world and people on my own. The next few years were
pretty rough on me and I continued for many years on the path that I
had started on. I was drinking, doing drugs, and getting into very
serious trouble with the law. All the while, all of the people I had
sought to take the place of my family turned out to be the worst sort
of people: violent, dishonest, and untrustworthy.

I left my home state when I was 23, and, for the first time in my
life, I was able to experience life without the overwhelming figure of
my father hanging over me and the malign influence of my friends. I
started to see all of the carefully crafted lies that my life was
based on crumble around me. I slowly saw all of the truths that my
life was based on unravel. It is at this point that I started to
question everything in my life, including my religious beliefs. I took
the stance that everything in my life was suspect and had to be re-
evaluated.
I had a girlfriend at the time whom I later married. She had also been
active in the racist skinhead scene that I was involved with and I was
always worried that I might offend her with my new ideas and way of
thinking. I had always been an avid reader, and I took the next couple
of years to read everything I could get my hands onto. This passion of
mine led me to collect a small library of books that now consists of
over a thousand volumes, everything from Kant and Descartes to Tariq
Ramadan and Edward Said.

During this time, the Intifada was raging in Palestine. My father,
racist and anti-Semite though he was, had always supported the Jewish
state. I now think that he hated Jews, as well as anyone else who
wasn't white, but he hated the Arabs more than he hated the Jews, so
that is why he supported Israel. As I was rethinking everything I had
been taught when I was younger, I decided to take a closer look at
this struggle in the Middle East.
I started reading general books on Middle Eastern history and the
national politics of the area. Again and again I found that I was
having trouble understanding both the history and politics of the area
because I didn't have any sort of understanding about Islam. As a
child, I had attended church from time to time, but didn't have a firm
grounding in any religion. My father had a hatred of Islam, so as a
teen I had shared this hatred without having a clue as to what Islam
was about or what Muslims believed. It goes without saying that I had
never met a Muslim in my life.

So I started to look into Islam, its history and its beliefs. At this
time, the Internet was gaining in popularity so I used both print and
Internet sources to help me gain an understanding on the basics of
Islam and its history. I was living in Washington State and was not
aware of a Muslim community there, so there was really no one with
whom I could talk. Shortly after this, my wife's job transferred her
to England, so that was all about to change.

When I got to England, my interests strayed for a while. I was in a
new country with a long and rich history, so I spent a few years
exploring this history and traveling all over Europe. But from time to
time, events would draw my attention back to the Middle East and the
politics there. I was now in a country with a long-standing and well-
established Muslim community, although the town I lived in didn't have
any such community. I began now to read in earnest about Islamic
beliefs, ideology, and history. I also started reading the Qur'an .
From the very beginning, certain things struck a chord with me and
answered doubts I had always had concerning the religion I was raised
in. I had always taken issue with the idea that God could have
offsprings. From my readings, I recognized this belief as being
derived from pagan sources. Zeus, Odin, and numerous other pagan gods
all had children.
In the case of Odin, his followers even believed that he had been hung
on a tree, much like Christians believe that Jesus was hung on a
cross. Odinists, the name given to the followers of this ancient
northern European religion, also believed in a trinity of sorts formed
by Odin, his son Thor, and his consort Freja. It was clear this
innovation of the Christians did not have its basis in God, but in
previous pagan beliefs.

The other issue that I had always struggled with was the concept of
original sin. The idea that God could be so unjust as to hold myself
and everyone else responsible for the sins of others who had died
thousands of years before me just seemed so unjust. I had a basic
concept of God, and the idea He could be so unjust to do such a thing
just did not sit well with me.

It always seemed to me that Christians just didn't have the answer to
these questions, and if they did, their answers just reinforced these
unjust positions. I looked to Judaism, but that religion offered more
questions than answers as well. Their attitude towards the prophets
(peace be upon them all) was disgraceful. Their religious texts
accused these greatest of men of the most terrible crimes and I
refused to believe God would pick such men to lead His people on
earth. If Judaism held such beliefs, how could I look to them for
guidance?

It seemed clear that Islam had all of the answers. It cleared up the
confusion of the lie of the trinity and asserted Jesus' true role as a
prophet, and not as the son of God. Islam reveres all of the prophets
and recognizes them for the great people they were. In Islam and the
values it promotes, I saw the answer to my problems and questions, and
the future of mankind. My main issue was to try implementing Islam in
my life.

As I said before, I was married to a woman who came from the same
background as I did. She didn't have an easy time dealing with my
interest in this subject, whether it be Islam or Middle Eastern
politics. I knew that the way I needed to change my life was to start
living in a proper manner, but I knew this was going to cause us
serious issues. It eventually came to the point where I would be
unable to practice my new found religion and stay married to this
woman, so we split up. Before I left England, I went with a young
Lebanese man I had met in London and said my Shahadah in a mosque
there.
When I left my ex-wife, I was forced to leave England. I would have
loved to stay there because the opportunity to learn about my new-
found religion there would have been great, but al-hamdu lillah, I was
to learn later why God chose this turn of events for me. I quickly got
a job working for the US government in Alaska.

Of course, there is not much in the way of a Muslim community in
Alaska, and it is centered in Anchorage and Fairbanks. I was working
hundreds of miles from either of these cities, so I took the
opportunity to continue reading and searching for information
concerning Islam the best I could, from the Internet and other
sources.

I used to travel, from time to time, to the Washington DC area for
business. I made friends within the Muslim community there. At this
point, I had been thinking about getting married. I had been divorced
for several years and I knew that one of the main ways for Muslims to
fulfill their deen (religion) is through marriage.

I was a bit worried about this, being a convert. I knew that many
Muslims came from ethnic backgrounds that would not be too welcoming
of a white American convert marrying their daughter. This was
compounded further because I had tattoos from my teenage years, and I
was very uncertain that I would find a Muslim woman and her family
that would accept me.

A new friend of mine said that he knew of a sister who was looking to
get married, so he asked her if it was OK to give me her number. I
tried to call her when I first got home, but she wasn't there and I
left a message. The next day I called her back, and we talked for
hours. We exchanged e-mail addresses and for the next three days, we
talked for dozens of hours. We hardly slept those first three days. I
got so little sleep that I found myself falling asleep at work. We
talked about all of the important things that we would need to know to
make a successful marriage work.

It was clear from the beginning that we had a lot in common, and that
it all centered around our devotion to our faith and to God. I had
this feeling that she was meant for me. She was such a good God-
fearing Muslim woman and she had so much she could teach me about the
religion. Not only could she teach me about religion, but she could
also help me with Arabic because she was a native speaker. We talked
on the phone and via e-mail for several months.

Talking and e-mailing were wonderful, but we both knew that we had to
meet each other face-to-face to see if the connection we had would
still be there. Always keeping God and our religion in mind, we wanted
to make sure we did everything halal and in the proper manner. We
decided, with the permission of her family, that I would visit during
Ramadan of that year to join the family for dinner and the breaking of
the fast.

I was very nervous, and I think I had a right to be. There is one bit
of information I have left out here and after I say this, you will
understand my nerves. My wife and her family are from Saudi Arabia;
both of her parents were born in Makkah. My earlier fear of the
cultural issues that any prospective wife and her family might have
with me were compounded 100 percent by this fact.

Trusting in God, and having a lump in my throat, I set off to meet
this wonderful woman and what I supposed to be her intimidating
family. I arrived in Washington DC right before sundown, collected my
bags, and waited for a taxi. When it was my turn for a taxi, I jumped
in.

The taxi driver was wearing a red and white checkered gutra, or Arab
headdress. I greeted him with "as-salamu `alaykum" and he returned the
greeting. The sun had gone down and he was just breaking his fast with
a date. He asked if I was fasting, and when I replied in the positive,
he offered me one of his own dates to break my fast. It turned out
this nice older gentleman was originally from Afghanistan, I saw this
as a very positive sign.

After dropping off my luggage at my hotel, I proceeded to the family's
house with a traditional gift of dates and incense in hand. As I got
out of the taxi and started walking up to the door, I just said
"bismillah" to myself and knew God would choose the best for me. All
sorts of scenarios played through my mind. She would like me, but the
family would hate me. The family wouldn't mind, but she would be
indifferent. What if they liked me and I didn't like them? The 20-foot
walk from the curb to the door seemed to me like 20 miles. Finally, I
got to the door and rang the bell.

What seemed to be a dozen people answered the door: family elders,
people my age, sisters, sons, daughters, and family friends. I was
warmly welcomed and asked to come into the house. After I entered, I
was asked to take off my shoes and join the family in the meal they
had made for me. It turned out, al-hamdu lillah, that I need not have
been worried. The family and I took to each other instantly. In
talking during the dinner and after, it was clear that the nice young
woman and I had a connection that transcended the miles and the phone
line.

I came back to the Washington DC area that January, when we got
married in front of friends and family. We took a nice honeymoon, and
then I had to return to my work in Alaska, which was not to finish
until the end of April. When it finished, I moved to the Washington DC
area and took up a job with a division of my company. I have been here
almost two years now.

It is amazing, subhan Allah, how God led me from disbelief in a home
filled with hate and then guided me to Him. At first glance, it might
seem that in my childhood house I couldn't have been farther from
Allah, but I would argue that this wasn't the case. Allah was always
there looking out for me; He directed me through some dangerous and
bad times to become the man and the Muslim that I am today.

People say that miracles do not happen today, but I would contend that
my story proves them wrong.
*(Source IslamOnline.com
Dr. R. Knapp
2007-03-21 15:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god? Take you false god and false
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.

Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
Holiness Unto the Lord
2007-03-22 00:29:30 UTC
Permalink
--
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord"
Endeavor to know His Word and His Word shall set you Free!
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god? Take you false god and false
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-22 02:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!
Maybe the filthy reprobate Robert Taylor has missed the posts
where Raymond Knapp has declared Allah to be his god.

I can't believe this filthy, reprobate scum Robert Taylor is
still billing himself as "Holiness Unto the Lord"! Astounding
hypocrisy!!!

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
r***@aim.com
2007-03-22 03:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!
Maybe the filthy reprobate Robert Taylor has missed the posts
where Raymond Knapp has declared Allah to be his god.
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
I can't believe this filthy, reprobate scum Robert Taylor is
still billing himself as "Holiness Unto the Lord"! Astounding
hypocrisy!!!
Again silly Allah the pig follower learn to read. He is not saying he
is the Lord, but UNTO THE LORD! Which it is clear to see is not the
LORD you say you follow. Now your "Allah pig" is not the Real God.
Which your evil tongue proves you do not belong to the LORD JESUS
CHRIST!
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Pastor Winter
Of what? Where are you members, or your church? You like the Islamic
have no honor and have no fear it would seem of punishment for your
sins. There are no group of 64 young ladies waiting for you even in
their heaven which is really Hell. Maybe you should go home to your
Allah, and see if that "pig" will forgive you for calling him a
"pig". You are so insane.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministryhttp://www.apostolic.bizfor Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?http://tinyurl.com/mxu7ofor trinity is antichrist sermon
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-22 16:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!

My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!

Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

http://www.allahislam.com

http://www.fruitofislam.org

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-22 16:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
See my reply as:

"Raymond Knapp again affirms that his god is Allah!"

No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!

My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!

Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

http://www.allahislam.com

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm

http://www.fruitofislam.org

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
John Fraser
2007-03-22 17:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Good afternoon Steve;

For the record, Allah is Arabic for God, and Issa is Arabic for Jesus.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
"Raymond Knapp again affirms that his god is Allah!"
No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!
My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!
Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.allahislam.com
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm
http://www.fruitofislam.org
Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
Holiness Unto the Lord
2007-03-22 18:23:50 UTC
Permalink
But, won't you agree that allah (a moon god) is the god mohammad picked from
the numerous gods of the desert tribes when he
hatched up this damnable religion.
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good afternoon Steve;
For the record, Allah is Arabic for God, and Issa is Arabic for Jesus.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
"Raymond Knapp again affirms that his god is Allah!"
No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!
My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!
Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.allahislam.com
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm
http://www.fruitofislam.org
Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
John Fraser
2007-03-23 00:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Good evening Robert;
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
But, won't you agree that allah (a moon god) is the god mohammad picked
from the numerous gods of the desert tribes when he
hatched up this damnable religion.
If that is what your sources tell you. Generally speaking, Allah means
God, Issa means Jesus.

Cheers,
John
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good afternoon Steve;
For the record, Allah is Arabic for God, and Issa is Arabic for Jesus.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
"Raymond Knapp again affirms that his god is Allah!"
No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!
My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!
Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.allahislam.com
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm
http://www.fruitofislam.org
Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
Holiness Unto the Lord
2007-03-23 00:46:12 UTC
Permalink
and of course I agree, but there are many gods of this World....but only One
God, that is above all, a God that created all and is Lord of Lord, King of
Kings! allah is the name for a moon god that pagans worshipped and offered
sacrifices unto to...yeah even today sacrifices are being made to the pagan
god of islam. Look at the suicide scarifies being made in the name of
allah, the pagan god.

But Christians know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the One true God
manifested in the Flesh, Jesus Christ our Lord.
God in Creation, God in Redemption and God in Regeneration....Jesus Christ
the Righteous....Only begotten of Spirit God.

Jesus Christ was and is God; When on earth, Fully God/Fully Man......

allah the hand picked god of the mad man mohammad. The pedophile that
murdered thousand in that name, allah...an abomination to the One True God.

Nice to hear from you John; as always you are a gentlemen.

Remember us in your prayers; only for His Grace and Mercy. I am a sick man
suffering from a horrible disease known as psoriatic arthritis. I am
dealing with it and praising God, for it has caused me to have relationship
with the Master that I have never had before! Causing me to have compassion
for the sick and hurting. God has called me to prayer and worship. Praise
the Lord.....


God Bless,
Robert
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good evening Robert;
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
But, won't you agree that allah (a moon god) is the god mohammad picked
from the numerous gods of the desert tribes when he
hatched up this damnable religion.
If that is what your sources tell you. Generally speaking, Allah means
God, Issa means Jesus.
Cheers,
John
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good afternoon Steve;
For the record, Allah is Arabic for God, and Issa is Arabic for Jesus.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
You Steve Winter the caller of God as a Pig are lost and as evil as
any Islamic follower of their Allah, you and them are of the same kind
of faith, hate and evil.
"Raymond Knapp again affirms that his god is Allah!"
No, lying reprobate scum, and fake missionary, Raymond Knapp, I
did not call God a pig. I called Allah a pig. Raymond Knapp
again affirms that his god is Allah!
My God is Jesus Christ, not Allah!
Learn of Raymond Knapp's god "Allah".
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.allahislam.com
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm
http://www.fruitofislam.org
Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
John Fraser
2007-03-23 13:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Good morning Robert;

"Holiness Unto the Lord" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:GZHMh.21611$***@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

If you agree, why the "but"? Regardless of what Allah and Issa mean in
their native tongue, Islam is based largely on the Old Testament. Like all
other religions, it is an alternative to Christianity. Therefore, I'm not
suggesting any followers of Islam should be treated as followers of Christ.
The Bible glorifies Jesus, the Qu'ran does not.

Yeah, it's amazing the number of followers who are so willing to die for
their beliefs. Pity that Christianity isn't like minded in trying to seek
the lost. Regardless of what the news media shows us regarding other
cultures, it's my opinion that people are people are people regardless of
ethnic origin or customs. They all want to play with their grandchildren in
an atmosphere of peace. On that note of willing to die for one's country,
the name of the game is to make the other person die for their country.

There was a chap using the name Arah in the newsgroup recently
proclaiming the superiority of Islam over Christianity. One of his earliest
claims was the Bible is plagued with contradiction. Everything has its
weaknesses, and Islam is no exception to that. So, I did a search on
Mohammed and discovered there is a considerable confusion over how many
wives, and how many sons, and how many daughters he had. Additionally, he
changed careers from being a merchant to that of a mercenary, his role being
offensive.

It's good to hear from you as well Robert. Mr. Winter has pretty much
discouraged any camaraderie with many of his old friends. Strangely, his
feeding the flock is seemingly one of words using veiled threats. I have a
feeling his call to the ministry was by convincing himself he could do
better. In fact, his initial exposure to the UPC was thinking he knew
better. His emphasis is on Jesus Name baptism. It isn't a magic formula
that automatically cleanses us. As Paul wrote, it's a confirmation of a
repentant heart, a changed heart that has allowed God to control one's
destiny through faith.

I did a quick read on psoriatic arthritis. It's painful just reading
about it. Back in the 60's, a certain reverend on his way to speak at a
church spied someone who lived in the streets. His famous comment was,
"There but for the grace of God go I". When you think about it, his words
have a grain of truth. It is by God's grace if we are physically and
mentally healthy, able to know joy without hardship. But, it isn't a
perfect world and the good suffer along with the bad. I think being
miserable about it only aggravates it although I certainly appreciate one
not being joyous about suffering. Nobody enjoys pain nor do they look
forward to having it. I'm sure Jesus had those same thoughts while praying
in the Garden. It was going to hurt and there was no esaping that.

I broke a tooth last October and it didn't really bother me until I saw
the dentist last month. He had to drill quite deep and exposed the nerve.
We were both hoping filling the cavity wouldn't be a problem. No such luck.
I ended pacing the floor like a caged animal on more than one occasion. The
problem was fixed with a root canal which was mentioned as a distinct
possiblity.

With your condition, it seems mostly spinal related, but not limited to
it. Fingers and toes can swell to several times their normal size creating
additional skin problems of their own. I shall keep you in my prayers.
Phil 4:8.

Cheers,
John
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
and of course I agree, but there are many gods of this World....but only
One God, that is above all, a God that created all and is Lord of Lord,
King of Kings! allah is the name for a moon god that pagans worshipped and
offered sacrifices unto to...yeah even today sacrifices are being made to
the pagan god of islam. Look at the suicide scarifies being made in the
name of allah, the pagan god.
But Christians know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the One true God
manifested in the Flesh, Jesus Christ our Lord.
God in Creation, God in Redemption and God in Regeneration....Jesus Christ
the Righteous....Only begotten of Spirit God.
Jesus Christ was and is God; When on earth, Fully God/Fully Man......
allah the hand picked god of the mad man mohammad. The pedophile that
murdered thousand in that name, allah...an abomination to the One True God.
Nice to hear from you John; as always you are a gentlemen.
Remember us in your prayers; only for His Grace and Mercy. I am a sick
man suffering from a horrible disease known as psoriatic arthritis. I am
dealing with it and praising God, for it has caused me to have
relationship with the Master that I have never had before! Causing me to
have compassion for the sick and hurting. God has called me to prayer and
worship. Praise the Lord.....
God Bless,
Robert
Holiness Unto the Lord
2007-03-23 14:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Good Morning John,
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good morning Robert;
If you agree, why the "but"? Regardless of what Allah and Issa mean in
their native tongue, Islam is based largely on the Old Testament. Like
all other religions, it is an alternative to Christianity. Therefore, I'm
not suggesting any followers of Islam should be treated as followers of
Christ. The Bible glorifies Jesus, the Qu'ran does not.
Yeah, it's amazing the number of followers who are so willing to die
for their beliefs. Pity that Christianity isn't like minded in trying to
seek the lost. Regardless of what the news media shows us regarding other
cultures, it's my opinion that people are people are people regardless of
ethnic origin or customs. They all want to play with their grandchildren
in an atmosphere of peace. On that note of willing to die for one's
country, the name of the game is to make the other person die for their
country.
There was a chap using the name Arah in the newsgroup recently
proclaiming the superiority of Islam over Christianity. One of his
earliest claims was the Bible is plagued with contradiction. Everything
has its weaknesses, and Islam is no exception to that. So, I did a search
on Mohammed and discovered there is a considerable confusion over how many
wives, and how many sons, and how many daughters he had. Additionally, he
changed careers from being a merchant to that of a mercenary, his role
being offensive.
It's good to hear from you as well Robert. Mr. Winter has pretty much
discouraged any camaraderie with many of his old friends. Strangely, his
feeding the flock is seemingly one of words using veiled threats. I have
a feeling his call to the ministry was by convincing himself he could do
better. In fact, his initial exposure to the UPC was thinking he knew
better. His emphasis is on Jesus Name baptism. It isn't a magic formula
that automatically cleanses us. As Paul wrote, it's a confirmation of a
repentant heart, a changed heart that has allowed God to control one's
destiny through faith.
I did a quick read on psoriatic arthritis. It's painful just reading
about it. Back in the 60's, a certain reverend on his way to speak at a
church spied someone who lived in the streets. His famous comment was,
"There but for the grace of God go I". When you think about it, his words
have a grain of truth. It is by God's grace if we are physically and
mentally healthy, able to know joy without hardship. But, it isn't a
perfect world and the good suffer along with the bad. I think being
miserable about it only aggravates it although I certainly appreciate one
not being joyous about suffering. Nobody enjoys pain nor do they look
forward to having it. I'm sure Jesus had those same thoughts while
praying in the Garden. It was going to hurt and there was no esaping
that.
I broke a tooth last October and it didn't really bother me until I saw
the dentist last month. He had to drill quite deep and exposed the nerve.
We were both hoping filling the cavity wouldn't be a problem. No such
luck. I ended pacing the floor like a caged animal on more than one
occasion. The problem was fixed with a root canal which was mentioned as
a distinct possiblity.
With your condition, it seems mostly spinal related, but not limited to
it. Fingers and toes can swell to several times their normal size
creating additional skin problems of their own. I shall keep you in my
prayers. Phil 4:8.
Cheers,
John
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
and of course I agree, but there are many gods of this World....but only
One God, that is above all, a God that created all and is Lord of Lord,
King of Kings! allah is the name for a moon god that pagans worshipped
and offered sacrifices unto to...yeah even today sacrifices are being
made to the pagan god of islam. Look at the suicide scarifies being
made in the name of allah, the pagan god.
But Christians know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the One true God
manifested in the Flesh, Jesus Christ our Lord.
God in Creation, God in Redemption and God in Regeneration....Jesus
Christ the Righteous....Only begotten of Spirit God.
Jesus Christ was and is God; When on earth, Fully God/Fully Man......
allah the hand picked god of the mad man mohammad. The pedophile that
murdered thousand in that name, allah...an abomination to the One True God.
Nice to hear from you John; as always you are a gentlemen.
Remember us in your prayers; only for His Grace and Mercy. I am a sick
man suffering from a horrible disease known as psoriatic arthritis. I
am dealing with it and praising God, for it has caused me to have
relationship with the Master that I have never had before! Causing me to
have compassion for the sick and hurting. God has called me to prayer
and worship. Praise the Lord.....
God Bless,
Robert
The islamic people, I am sure have good people.
Recently, a missionary that is a director of many missionary endeavors,
spoke at our
Church. He reported many islamic educators that are being directed by the
Holy Spirit
to the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ our Lord. Many are sincere and know
that they will
suffer persecution and death, when becoming a Christian.
There is an move of God, directing those people to Truth. We need to look
beyond the
terrorism and stigma and pray for these people to come to God.

Thank you for prayers. The PA does have it bad days, but praise the Lord
the Enbrel therapy
helps by blocking the PA from spreading. It is a very expensive drug
$1300.00 a month, that lowers the immune system. I have
to watch whom I associate with and where I go. I praise the Lord, my
insurance pays for the Meds..

It seems the only time I am not hurting is when I am praising the
Lord............So, I must praise Him...

Mr. Winter is a sad case. It sorrows me that he is some a hateful excuse
for a man. I repent that I ever spoke with the man
on the phone or had association with him, whatsoever. Of course the Holy
Ghost gives us discernment and when one would
tend to separate the Body of Christ, he is not of God.

Have a Blessed day,

Robert
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-23 16:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
Mr. Winter is a sad case.
Why, because I point out what a fake, lying, piece of scum Robert
Taylor really is?

Some times these false-christian dirt like Robert Taylor
say more about themselves by their own words than I ever could.

If you are a real Oneness Christian then Robert Taylor is not
your brother.

Anyone else notice any "changes" in Robert Taylor since
his descent into sin with Mark Bassett?

Let all real Christians join me in prayer that the Lord
would bring down the pompous, pride engorged elders in
the UPCI that are responsible for Mark Bassett being licensed
to preach. Blood really is on their hands for the dimbulbs that
Bassett has deceived into sin with him.

The ignorant dimbulb Robert D. Taylor sold his soul
for the approval of the reprobate Mark Bassett!

See folks, the weak minded Robert Taylor, spiritual dimbulb,
decided to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark
Bassett) But just look at how quickly he has joined him in sin!

WARNING!! You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end
up as some religious scum like Robert Taylor!

Those reprobate spiritual filth do not represent "Oneness"
except to testify to the backslidden and pride engorged
condition of some in UPCI leadership.

Let any real Christians also join with me in prayer that
Robert Taylor would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him, and pray that the Lord
would reward Taylor according to his works lest he
deceive more souls into the sewer with him.

You cannot be "neutral" about sin!

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-23 16:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
Mr. Winter is a sad case.
See my reply as: "Robert Taylor, unrepentant reprobate hypocrite"

Why, because I point out what a fake, lying, piece of scum Robert
Taylor really is?

Some times these false-christian dirt like Robert Taylor
say more about themselves by their own words than I ever could.

If you are a real Oneness Christian then Robert Taylor is not
your brother.

Anyone else notice any "changes" in Robert Taylor since
his descent into sin with Mark Bassett?

Let all real Christians join me in prayer that the Lord
would bring down the pompous, pride engorged elders in
the UPCI that are responsible for Mark Bassett being licensed
to preach. Blood really is on their hands for the dimbulbs that
Bassett has deceived into sin with him.

The ignorant dimbulb Robert D. Taylor sold his soul
for the approval of the reprobate Mark Bassett!

See folks, the weak minded Robert Taylor, spiritual dimbulb,
decided to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark
Bassett) But just look at how quickly he has joined him in sin!

WARNING!! You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end
up as some religious scum like Robert Taylor!

Those reprobate spiritual filth do not represent "Oneness"
except to testify to the backslidden and pride engorged
condition of some in UPCI leadership.

Let any real Christians also join with me in prayer that
Robert Taylor would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him, and pray that the Lord
would reward Taylor according to his works lest he
deceive more souls into the sewer with him.

You cannot be "neutral" about sin!

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
arah
2007-03-24 08:24:44 UTC
Permalink
My Dear John Fraser

I know you are a wise person. What you wrote are the knowledge you
acquired all these years from the books you read, from the news you
hear and from what you saw. None of us are divine or received direct
guidance from God except those we call messengers and prophets
Post by John Fraser
Good morning Robert;
If you agree, why the "but"? Regardless of what Allah and Issa mean in
their native tongue, Islam is based largely on the Old Testament. Like all
other religions, it is an alternative to Christianity. Therefore, I'm not
suggesting any followers of Islam should be treated as followers of Christ.
The Bible glorifies Jesus, the Qu'ran does not.
You are wrong, Quran does glorifies Jesus.

Please get a copy of the Quran and read for yourself what the Quran
said about Jesus and his virgin mother Marry
Post by John Fraser
Yeah, it's amazing the number of followers who are so willing to die for
their beliefs. Pity that Christianity isn't like minded in trying to seek
the lost. Regardless of what the news media shows us regarding other
cultures, it's my opinion that people are people are people regardless of
ethnic origin or customs. They all want to play with their grandchildren in
an atmosphere of peace. On that note of willing to die for one's country,
the name of the game is to make the other person die for their country.
You are right, thank you
Post by John Fraser
There was a chap using the name Arah in the newsgroup recently
proclaiming the superiority of Islam over Christianity. One of his earliest
claims was the Bible is plagued with contradiction. Everything has its
weaknesses, and Islam is no exception to that. So, I did a search on
Mohammed and discovered there is a considerable confusion over how many
wives, and how many sons, and how many daughters he had. Additionally, he
changed careers from being a merchant to that of a mercenary, his role being
offensive.
You need to get the right references.,your read from a wrong
references which painted wrong perception about Muhammad. If Mohammad
is as what you described. why more and people including Christian's
Priest and Pastors are coming to Islam. There are almost 2 billions
Muslim and Islam is the fastest growing religion.

All Muslims pray to One God or Allah in Arabic the same GOD that
Adam. Naoh, Abraham, Moses, Solomon and Jesus prayed.

But why do Christians pray to Jesus who was born to virgin Mary, Who
sleep and get hungry and he can't even save himself from the Jews and
the Roman.

If Jesus can't save himself , his disciples and followers from
suffering of shame, horror of death and murder by the Roman even went
he is alive so can someone who is dead can help you in this world or
save you from hell fire? Why csn't Jesus stop the Jews from murdering
John the Baptist?

So let put your thinking hat.

May God show us the right path and save us from the hell fire.

AMEN



Get books written by Karen Armstrong, John Esposito or Charles Gai
Eton and you will get the true picture of Muhammad and Islam.

Good luck
John Fraser
2007-03-24 12:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Good morning Arah;
Post by arah
My Dear John Fraser
I know you are a wise person. What you wrote are the knowledge you
acquired all these years from the books you read, from the news you
hear and from what you saw. None of us are divine or received direct
guidance from God except those we call messengers and prophets
Post by John Fraser
Good morning Robert;
If you agree, why the "but"? Regardless of what Allah and Issa mean in
their native tongue, Islam is based largely on the Old Testament. Like all
other religions, it is an alternative to Christianity. Therefore, I'm not
suggesting any followers of Islam should be treated as followers of Christ.
The Bible glorifies Jesus, the Qu'ran does not.
You are wrong, Quran does glorifies Jesus.
It pays some homage, but it does not glorify him as our Redeemer.
Post by arah
Please get a copy of the Quran and read for yourself what the Quran
said about Jesus and his virgin mother Marry
Post by John Fraser
Yeah, it's amazing the number of followers who are so willing to die for
their beliefs. Pity that Christianity isn't like minded in trying to seek
the lost. Regardless of what the news media shows us regarding other
cultures, it's my opinion that people are people are people regardless of
ethnic origin or customs. They all want to play with their grandchildren in
an atmosphere of peace. On that note of willing to die for one's country,
the name of the game is to make the other person die for their country.
You are right, thank you
Post by John Fraser
There was a chap using the name Arah in the newsgroup recently
proclaiming the superiority of Islam over Christianity. One of his earliest
claims was the Bible is plagued with contradiction. Everything has its
weaknesses, and Islam is no exception to that. So, I did a search on
Mohammed and discovered there is a considerable confusion over how many
wives, and how many sons, and how many daughters he had. Additionally, he
changed careers from being a merchant to that of a mercenary, his role being
offensive.
You need to get the right references.,your read from a wrong
references which painted wrong perception about Muhammad. If Mohammad
is as what you described. why more and people including Christian's
Priest and Pastors are coming to Islam. There are almost 2 billions
Muslim and Islam is the fastest growing religion.
My attempt was to find a balanced opinion, and my impression was there
are several versions regarding Mohammed. One is that a number of female
slaves were included in his number of wives. Another is that he had a son
along with four daughters, some say no son.
Post by arah
All Muslims pray to One God or Allah in Arabic the same GOD that
Adam. Naoh, Abraham, Moses, Solomon and Jesus prayed.
I realize that. That is the Old Testament under Mosaic Law. Mohammed
essentially rejected the New Testament Church. Because he could not deny
its central character, he ensured Jesus was reduced to that of another
prophet. Mohammed did acknowledge that nobody, including himself, could
duplicate what Jesus his number of miracles.
Post by arah
But why do Christians pray to Jesus who was born to virgin Mary, Who
sleep and get hungry and he can't even save himself from the Jews and
the Roman.
Was Mohammed immortal? To answer your question, Jesus was sent to
become our redeemer. His death became our sacrifice. In doing so, he
became the doorway to Paradise. What is required of us is described in
Romans 10:9 and Acts 2:38.
Post by arah
If Jesus can't save himself , his disciples and followers from
suffering of shame, horror of death and murder by the Roman even went
he is alive so can someone who is dead can help you in this world or
save you from hell fire? Why csn't Jesus stop the Jews from murdering
John the Baptist?
Does Mohammed stop terrorism on Arabic soil? Of course not. He
encouraged and participated in the murder of infidels. Jesus taught that we
should have compassion on our enemies because their final destiny is not
pleasant. We should be doing everything in our power to prevent that.
Post by arah
So let put your thinking hat.
May God show us the right path and save us from the hell fire.
AMEN
Get books written by Karen Armstrong, John Esposito or Charles Gai
Eton and you will get the true picture of Muhammad and Islam.
Good luck
Thank you and I appreciate your suggestions. I used to have an English
copy of the Qu'ran, but it was given away years ago. I'm not suggesting all
Islams are blood thirsty, nor can all Christians say they haven't been in
combat and killed someone. People are people are people. I look forward to
hearing from you. Phil 4:8.

Cheers,
John
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-23 16:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
allah the hand picked god of the mad man mohammad. The pedophile that
murdered thousand in that name, allah...an abomination to the One True God.
Allah is also the god of your filthy brother, Raymond Knapp.

You are a contemptible hypocrite Mr. Taylor calling yourself
"Holiness Unto the Lord" with your sinful history!

Robert Taylor is a filthy disgrace who has even advocated child
abuse!

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
r***@aim.com
2007-03-22 04:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!
I can't believe this
We all know you can not believe, nice to see you confess it, you now
need to repent and accept the blood of Jesus and make HIM LORD of your
life. Not only a dip in the water, a commetment to Christ Jesus, if
you must call point to Jesus and use the Arahbic term for God, which
then is Allah by Arabic Christians, so be it. God looks at the heart
not what you silly brain thinks, but Jesus does know what you think,
and what you sow you shall reap. 1 John 1:7
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Pastor Winter
r***@aim.com
2007-03-22 03:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
--
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord"
Endeavor to know His Word and His Word shall set you Free!
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god? Take you false god and false
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!- Hide quoted text -
Yes you are correct, pray for them, that they may let Jesus into thier
life and find the peace that only God in Christ can give to them.
bob young
2007-03-26 11:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
--
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord"
Endeavor to know His Word and His Word shall set you Free!
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god? Take you false god and false
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
Raymond, face it, islam is satanic and they are pagan.........
There is but One Lord and His Name is Jesus Christ, the Righteous!
Jehovah God in Flesh!
And I bet if you decided to send an army to kill 'them thar Mudslimes'
your god would somehow miraculously give 'His' approval.

Religious wars have been going on since early history when the first
simpleton made up the first god and then another equally simple fella
created a different one.

Will you people EVER grow up?
arah
2007-03-22 08:29:37 UTC
Permalink
My dear Dr. R. Knapp, Pastor Steve Winter and my fellow Christians

SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
OR CALL UPON RAHMAN
BY WHATEVER NAME YE CALL UPON HIM (it is well):
FOR TO HIM BELONG THE MOST BEAUTIFUL NAMES
Holy Qur'aan 17:110

BELIEF IN GOD UNIVERSAL

WHAT IS HIS NAME?

At the end of Ahmad Deedat talk on the subject - "MUHAMMED
(p.b.u.h) the Natural Successor to CHRIST (p.b.u.h.) at question time,
a Christian Missionary posed the question: "What is His Name?" Meaning
thereby as to the name of God. Ahmad Deedat stood up to answer. But
before he opened his mouth, the Christian Missionary spoke into the
mike, provided for questioning, that he would answer his own question.
I said, "You posed the question so the obligation is on me to reply to
your question". He said, "Yes, but I will answer the
question." (Laughter in the audience). He was actually begging for an
opportunity to be heard. Where else on earth would he get such a large
audience, and that at the Muslim's expense, to preach. I said, "Carry
on!" (Give him enough rope to hang himself). After some rambling, he
concluded that the name of God was "JESUS CHRIST!"

It was not the time, at that meeting; nor is it expedient here to
discuss the subject fully - "IS JESUS GOD?" It is enough, for the
moment, to say that in the language of Moses, Jesus and Muhummed
(Peace be upon them all) the name of God Almighty is ALLAH!

Belief in God is ingrained in the nature of man. As long as man
existed on earth, the knowledge of God Almighty also co-existed. As
Professor Max Fuller in his Hibbert Lectures said:

"RELIGION IS NOT A NEW INVENTION. IT IS, IF NOT AS OLD AS THE WORLD,
AT LEAST AS OLD AS THE WORLD WE KNOW. THERE NEVER WAS A FALSE GOD NOR
WAS THERE EVER A FALSE RELIGION, UNLESS YOU CALL A CHILD A FALSE MAN.
ALL RELIGION, SO FAR AS I KNOW THEM, HAD THE SAME PURPOSE. ALL WERE
LINKS IN A CHAIN WHICH CONNECTS HEAVEN AND EARTH, AND WHICH HELD, AND
ALWAYS WAS HELD, BY ONE AND THE SAME HAND."

This is truly a very charitable attitude; truly Islamic.
Allah subha nahu wa ta-aala (God Almighty) tells us in the Holy
Qur'aan:

AND THERE NEVER WAS A PEOPLE WITHOUT A WARNER HAVING LIVED AMONG THEM
(In the past).
Sura Fatir 35:24

AND TO EVERY NATION THERE WAS (sent) A GUIDE.
Sura Ra'd 13:7

GOD NOT PARTIAL

If God Almighty is not partial to His creatures with regard to
material blessings like - fresh-air, rain, sun- shine etc., why should
He be partial in regard to His spiritual blessings (The Guidance of
God)? He has not been partial! There is no nation or language group on
earth who does not know God by some name. This knowledge was given by
the Creator Himself through the lips of His chosen messengers. The
names of a very few of these messengers we know, the rest have been
lost or clouded in superstition.

Though all theology (knowledge of God) originated with God, mankind
played fast and loose with those pure and holy concepts, adding frills
and adornments where no embellishments was needed - it despoiled the
language. In the words of Mrs. Ellen G. White, a "prophetess" of the
7th Day Adventist Movement, in her Bible Commentary it is said:

"LEARNED MEN HAD IN SOME INSTANCES CHANGED THE WORDS, THINKING THAT
THEY WERE MAKING IT PLAIN, WHEN IN REALITY THEY WERE MYSTIFYING THAT
WHICH WAS PLAIN."

In the Religious Annals of the world, the Jewish and Christian
Scriptures called the Holy Bible abound with graphic examples of
portraying God after man's own pattern:

IMPERFECT DESCRIPTIONS OF GOD

LIKE A MAN
(Genesis 11:5)
"And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the
children of men built."

MOSES SEES GOD'S BACK PARTS?
(Exodus 33:23)
"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but
my face shall not be seen."

WRESTLES WITH JACOB
(Genesis 32:28)
"And He (God) said, thy name shall be called no more lacob, but
Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and has
prevailed."

LIKE ONE DRUNK
(Psalm 78:65)
"Then the Lord awakened as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man
that shouteth by reason of wine."

REGRETS MAKING MAN
(Genesis 6:6)
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it
grieved him at his heart."

SMELLS SWEET FLAVOUR
(Genesis 8:21)
"And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his
heart..."

A CROUCHING LION
(Numbers 24:9)
"He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall
stir him up?"

DEVOURING FIRE
(Exodus 24:17)
"And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the
top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel."

RESTED AND REFRESHED
(Exodus 31:17)
" ... in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh
day he rested AND WAS REFRESHED."

Out of the encyclopaedia of 73 Books of the Roman Catholics and 66
Books of the Protestants called the "BIBLE", endless number of
quotations can be culled to fill a book larger than this publication
to illustrate man's various imperfect descriptions of God. The above
examples will suffice, I hope.

In the realm of the spirit, no nation has had as much opportunities as
the children of Israel. And despite repeated warnings to the effect
that:'THY GOD IS A JEALOUS GOD, HE SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BEFORE HIM,
NOT EVEN OF THE LIKENESS OF THE THINGS ON EARTH, OR IN THE HEAVENS
ABOVE, OR IN THE WATERS BENEATH THE SEA ... (Exodus 20:3-5),

they took the golden calf for worship, and again and again reverted
into idolatry. Nor is the bulk of Christendom any freer from this
taint. Visit St. Paul's Cathedral in London, or St. Peter's Cathedral
in Rome and you will have very little to distinguish them from the
Temple of Somnath in India. It is a question of Tweedle Dum and
Tweedle Dee.3

You do not really have to go to England or Italy to verify my
statement. Why not an inspection in loco to an Anglican or a Roman
Catholic Cathedral in your own home town!

THE CONCEPTS

In the religious terminology of the world, we will find that every
"son of man" in his own way, in his own dialect has given some
beautiful attributive name for the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth.

THE ZULU CONCEPT

In our own country, South Africa, the Zulus, a very virile and
militant people - a nation akin to the Qureish of pre- Islamic Arabia
- have given a name to God Almighty - uMVELINQANGI. This word when
properly articulated in its own dialect, sounds identical to the
Arabic word Walla-hu-gani, meaning - "And Allah is Rich" (Bounteous).
It also sounds like "Allegany" of the Red Indians of North America
(Remember their ALLEGANY mountain). The origin or real meaning of the
word "Allegany," is not commonly known to the American people. But ask
any Zulu as to who or what this uMvelinqangi is and he will surely
explain to you in Zulu:
HAWU UMNIMZANI! UYENA, UMOYA OINGCWELE. AKAZALI YENA, FUTHI
AKAZALWANGA; FUTHI, AKUKHO LUTMO OLU FANA NAYE."

Believe me, this is almost a word for word translation of Sura Ikhlas,
Chapter 112 of the Holy Qur'an.

SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;
ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;
HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:
AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.
Holy Qur'an 112:1-4

ALMOST ISLAMIC

Now, compare the above verses with my free translation of what the
Zulu actually said:

"Oh Sir! He is a pure and Holy Spirit, He does not beget and He is not
begotten, and further there is nothing like Him."

Every African tribe, South of the Zambesi River, that is, in Southern
Africa, have given different names to the Almighty - Tixo, Modimo,
uNkulunkulu, etc., and each and every African language group will take
pains to explain the same pure and holy concept as the Zulu. It is to
the glory of the African nations that though they had no written
languages, and hence no written records, therefore not being able to
recount the names of their respective prophets, yet not a single one
of the tribes ever stooped down to worshipping idols or images of
either of men or animals, until the White man first introduced his
religion and gave the African his anthropomorphic concept of God the
Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, and brought the African
down to bowing before the statues of Jesus, Mary, St. Joseph, St.
Christopher and so on.

Out of the dozens of African tribes inhabiting this part of the world,
not a single one of them ever made "umfanegisos" (images) of their
God. Yet they were capable of carving out of wood, elephants and
lions, and reproducing men and women also, in clay. Besides, the Zulus
also had some knowledge of metallurgy. When questioned an old Zulu as
to the reason, why the Africans did not make umfanegisos of their
Gods, he replied, "How could we make images of Him (God Almighty) when
we know that He is not like a man, He is not like a monkey, or an
elephant or a snake: He is not like anything we can think of or
imagine. He is a pure and Holy Spirit."

LIKE THE ARABS

This term, uMVELINQANGI, though well known to the Zulus, was not
commonly used. Again they were like the pagan Qureish of Pre-Islamic
Arabia who knew the name Allah, but passed Him by, because they felt
that He was too High, too Pure, too Holy to be approached, so they
went for their substitutary and imaginary gods - their Al- Lats, AI-
Uzzas and Al-Manats and a hundred besides. The Zulus too would not
call upon uMvelinqangi directly, but he was better than the Arab of
the Ayyam-ul-jahiliyya (days of ignorance), because he did not go
after false gods; he only invoked the spirits of his ancestors to
intercede with uMvelinqangi on his behalf, exactly as the Catholics do
in invoking the Virgin Mary and the Saints.

The more common term used by the Zulus for their God is uNKULUNKULU
which literally means - the Greatest of the Great or the Mightiest of
the Mighty (Almighty). More colloquially when taking oath, they would
exclaim "iNkosi phe-Zulu" meaning - the Lord Above (knows), or the God
in Heaven (knows), or Heaven knows, that I am speaking the truth. The
word "zulu" in the language of the Zulu literally means High Heaven,
and they consider themselves to be superior to the numerous other
tribes of Southern Africa, being in this respect like the Querish
among the dwellers of the desert before Islam.

CONCEPT FROM THE EAST

The Hindi word for God Almighty is PRAMATMA. In Sanskrit, the language
of ancient India, "Atma" meant the soul, and "Pram-atma" meant the
Great and Holy Soul, or the Holy Spirit, which is really a beautiful
description of the "Father" in Heaven. The Bible says, "God is Spirit:
and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth" (John
4:24). Not in form, shape or size, but in SPIRIT.
Despite his pantheistic interpretation of the Divinity, the name the
Hindu gives the Supreme Being, in his classical language, is OM (Aum),
which means Guardian or Protector. A very suitable attribute about
which the Muslim can have no misgivings.

CONCEPT FROM THE WEST

The Anglo/Saxon and the Teuton in their own and other allied European
languages call their object of worship "GOD" or words of similar sound
and import, i.e.
God in English;
Got in Afrikaans (the
language of the descendants of the Hollandse people in South Africa);
Gott in German; and
Gudd in Danish, Swedish
and Norwegian languages.

The ancient Phoenicians called their God - ALLON - (not far from Allah
if we could only hear it articulated), and the Canaanites ADO. The
Israelites not only shared the word EL with the original people of
Palestine, but borrowed the name of their chief deity - ADO and turned
it into ADONAI, and everywhere the four-letter word YHWH occured in
their Holy Scriptures, they read "Adonai" instead of "Yahuwa." You
will not fail to notice the resemblance between the Jewish Adonai and
the heathen Adonis. ADONIS was a "beautiful godling loved by Venus" in
the Greek pantheon.

THE LATIN CONCEPT

In the Latin-dominated languages of Western Europe, where Latin had
remained dominant in learning and diplomacy for centuries, the chief
term used for God is DEUS:
Deus in
Portuguese;
Dieu in
French;
Dio in
Italian;
Dies in
Spanish;
Dia in Scotch
and Irish; and
Duw in Welsh.

Surprisingly in all the languages above, Deus and all the similar
sounding words mean heaven.

Moulana Vidyarthi, in his monumental work - "Muhammad in World
Scriptures," devotes a hundred pages to the names of God in the
different languages. And out of a list of 155 attributive names, over
40 of them use the word "Heaven" or the "Above," in their language in
describing God. Though the Muslim chants the Asma-ul-husna (the most
beautiful names), 99 as derived from the Holy Qur'an with the crowning
name, ALLAH; "Heaven" is not one of those ninety-nine attributes.
Symbolically, heaven may be described as the abode of God, and in the
words of Wordsworth in Tintern Abbey:

WHOSE DWELLING IS THE LIGHT OF SETTING SUNS, AND THE ROUND OCEAN AND
THE LIVING AIR, AND IN THE BLUE SKY, AND IN THE MIND OF MAN: A MOTION
AND A SPIRIT THAT IMPELS ALL THINKING THINGS, ALL OBJECTS OF ALL
THOUGHTS, AND ROLLS THROUGH ALL THINGS.

CONCEPT FROM BEYOND THE FAR EAST

Among all the 155 tantalising names of God in the various tongues, the
one that tickled me most was - "A-T-N-A-T-U!" - and this I have
adopted as a title of my book, instead of the original title promised
- "What is His Name!" for this present publication.

WHAT IS SO FUNNY OR SO NOVEL ABOUT ATNATU?

The aborgine of South Australia calls his God "Atnatu" because some
philosopher, poet or prophet had programmed him, that the Father in
Heaven is absolutely free from all needs; He is independant; He needs
no food nor drink. This quality, in his primitive, un-inhibited
language, he conversely named ATNATU, which literally meant "the One
without an anus - the One without any flaw" - i.e. the One from Whom
no impurity flows or emanates. When I started sharing this novel idea
with Hindu, Muslim and Christian friends, without exception, their
immediate reaction was one of mirth, they giggled and laughed. Most of
them not realising that the joke was on them. The boot was on the
other foot. Though the word "anus" is a very small word, only four
letters in English, most people have not heard it. One is forced to
use the colloquial substitute which I hesitate to reproduce here, nor
will I use the same in public meetings because of people's
hypersensitivity - because in the words of Abdullah Yusuf All, people
"HAD PERVERTED THEIR LANGUAGE ONCE BEAUTIFUL, INTO JARGONS OF EMPTY
ELEGANCE AND UNMEANING FUTILITY."

Therefore to ease the situation, in a round-about-way let us say that
where you have an "input," you must allow for an "output." The one who
eats, must have the call of nature - the toilet or the bush - and our
primitive friend smelt the need, which he could never attribute to his
Creator. Therefore, he called his God - ATNATU! 'The one without the
excretory system or its tail end.

GOD EATS NOT!

This novel concept of God by primitive man, is not really altogether
novel. God Almighty conveys the same truth to mankind, as in His Last
and Final Revelation - The Holy Qur'an - but in a language so noble,
so sublime, as befitting its Author. But because of its very finesse,
and refined manner of expression we have overlooked the Message. We
are commanded to say to all those who wish to wean us from the worship
of the One True God -

SAY: "SHALL I TAKE FOR MY PROTECTOR ANY BUT ALLAH
THE ORIGINATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH?
WHEN IT IS HE WHO FEEDS BUT HAS NO NEED TO BE FED."
Sura An'am 6:14

In other words, we are made to declare that - "WE WILL NOT TAKE ANYONE
AS OUR LORD AND PROTECTOR, OTHER THAN ALLAH, WHO IS THE WONDERFUL
ORIGINATOR OF THE UNIVERSE." And if any have misgivings about his so
called "man-gods" or "god-men," then bring him down to earth, for our
God is the One who feeds but is not fed. He is not, in need of food.
Does your man-god eat? Or doesn't he? If he does, then he MUST submit
to the call of nature - OUR GOD EATS NOT! How simple the logic, yet
how stupendous the argument. Alas! We need primitive man to remind us
of the potency of our weapons.

I hope this will be an eye opener for all of you to study the bible
and compare it to the Quran.

May God show us the right path

AMEN
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god? Take you false god and false
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
r***@aim.com
2007-03-23 11:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
My dear Dr. R. Knapp, Pastor Steve Winter and my fellow Christians
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
Yes CALL ON JESUS AS HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!
Post by arah
OR CALL UPON RAHMAN
NEVER WHY WASTE TIME WITH THE FAKE WHEN ONE CAN CALL ON THE LIVING
CHRIST JESUS.
Post by arah
FOR TO HIM BELONG THE MOST BEAUTIFUL NAMES
THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL NAME AND
DEMONS FEE WHEN THEY HEAR IT.
Post by arah
Holy Qur'aan 17:110
NOTHING HOLY ABOUT THAT BOOK. IT IS 650 LATE AND FAKE.
Post by arah
BELIEF IN GOD UNIVERSAL
NO IT IS NOT! THE COMMUNIST NATIONS LIKE THE BILLION SOULS IN CHINA
DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GOD!
Post by arah
WHAT IS HIS NAME?
JESUS!

TAKE YOUR DEATH AND KILLING MURDERING FAITH BACK TO IRAQ AND IF YOU
KEEP IT UP, MAYBE NO ONE WILL BE LEFT TO KILL AND DESTROY AS YOUR
FAITH IS DOING.
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-23 16:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by arah
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
Yes CALL ON JESUS AS HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!
Raymond Knapp was just telling us that Allah is his god.

Pastor Winter
--
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp 2000
"..you will not fine Mother Teresa in Hell." - Raymond Knapp 2002
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his contempt for the Word of God 2003
"One is baptized because they are saved, not to make them saved." Raymond Knapp 2005
"...Acts 2:38 is not the plan of Salvation..." - Raymond Knapp 2005
http://www.pentecostal.biz Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal
John Fraser
2007-03-23 17:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Good afternoon Steve;

As always, the newsgroup looks forward to hearing from you. We're
wondering if you put as much enthusiasm into building your church as you do
tearing down the churches of others. Any comments?

Cheers,
John
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by arah
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
Yes CALL ON JESUS AS HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!
Raymond Knapp was just telling us that Allah is his god.
Pastor Winter
--
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp 2000
"..you will not fine Mother Teresa in Hell." - Raymond Knapp 2002
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his contempt for the Word of God 2003
"One is baptized because they are saved, not to make them saved." Raymond Knapp 2005
"...Acts 2:38 is not the plan of Salvation..." - Raymond Knapp 2005
http://www.pentecostal.biz Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal
Holiness Unto the Lord
2007-03-23 18:22:47 UTC
Permalink
John, What Church? Does his guitar shop meet the standards for
a House of Prayer!? Even if a man would desire Salvation, he would
have to cleansed by the Rev. Winter, before he could become a member of
guitar sanctuary.......
The Lord will not bless the man, because he has not repented and become
Christ like.
One must be repented before the Anointing will come.
--
"Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh"
Post by John Fraser
Good afternoon Steve;
As always, the newsgroup looks forward to hearing from you. We're
wondering if you put as much enthusiasm into building your church as you
do tearing down the churches of others. Any comments?
Cheers,
John
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by arah
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
Yes CALL ON JESUS AS HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!
Raymond Knapp was just telling us that Allah is his god.
Pastor Winter
--
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp 2000
"..you will not fine Mother Teresa in Hell." - Raymond Knapp 2002
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his contempt for
the Word of God 2003
"One is baptized because they are saved, not to make them saved." Raymond Knapp 2005
"...Acts 2:38 is not the plan of Salvation..." - Raymond Knapp 2005
http://www.pentecostal.biz Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal
John Fraser
2007-03-23 19:40:19 UTC
Permalink
Good afternoon Robert;
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
John, What Church? Does his guitar shop meet the standards for
a House of Prayer!? Even if a man would desire Salvation, he would
have to cleansed by the Rev. Winter, before he could become a member of
guitar sanctuary.......
The Lord will not bless the man, because he has not repented and become
Christ like.
One must be repented before the Anointing will come.
Some of his music is OK, I'm not aware of any songwriter who had 100% of
their materiél become chart toppers. If his genre of music has a label, it
would likely be Gospel Rock, or something to that effect. I've taken songs
and added percussion tracks which I guarantee would never be played in many
churches. I just like to play them that way.

I have a feeling that Mr. Winter's attempt at a holiness church has been
mainly a failure. Many who change churches are required to be rebaptized to
the satisfaction of the Minister to cover all the bases. Even if Billy
Graham were to join your church, I guarantee he would have to undergo
baptism to satisfy your church. Trust me, it works that way.

I agree that before God can really bless someone's efforts, they must
submit and seek His will. Look what happens to some who strayed - Jim
Swaggart, Jim Bakker - these fellows had to restart from scratch. Some RCC
priests who should be enjoying their retirement are now looking at the world
through bars. And there are other churches who have seen the Mighty fail.
It's not a pretty sight.

I forget where I heard this, and recently in fact - God cannot bless us
until we seek His will. We effectively forfeit any blessings because we
will not seek Him. Ever wonder why the atheists complain about a merciless
God? They would do the same thing if in His position. However, they won't
admit it instead preferring to deny it altogether. Would they prefer being
made to obey should they want the blessings? Can't have it both ways.

Cheers,
John
Pastor Steve Winter
2007-03-24 04:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holiness Unto the Lord
John, What Church?
Watch as the reprobate spiritual whore Robert Taylor wallows with
the other false-christian scum out here.

What a hypocritical, blasphemous, plagiarizing, lying scum Robert
Taylor has become to bill himself as "Holiness Unto the Lord"

See what the sick and pathetic Robert Taylor is so jealous of and
obsessed about at http://www.jnahc.com

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
r***@aim.com
2007-03-26 15:02:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by arah
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
Yes CALL ON JESUS AS HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!
Raymond Knapp was just telling us that Allah is his god.
LIAR, the name Allah in Arabic is the name for God used by Christians
also that speak that tongue. You lying son of the evil one is telling
people lies because you think the word "Allah" means Islam, when it
does not, it does not mean the teachings of the Koran, you are a fake
and show your ignorants, of both English and other tongues and you say
your Pentecostal speaking in tongues, they you forbid the speaking in
Arabic, so you go against the teachings of Paul and Peter, etc. Your
lost and will reap what you sow and evil is all you will reap.
Post by Pastor Steve Winter
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his contempt for the Word of God 2003
Oh yes, PAUL STILL IS NOT GOD AND NEVER WILL BE, AS YOU MUST THINK HE
IS GOD! TO SAY I AM SHOWING CONTEMPT FOR THE WORD OF GOD!
r***@aim.com
2007-03-26 14:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
My dear Dr. R. Knapp, Pastor Steve Winter and my fellow Christians
Get a life, do not put my name with the likes of Steve Winter and a
Christian has nothing to do with you and are not your fellow since
they are not Muslims.
Post by arah
SAY: "CALL UPON ALLAH,
OR CALL UPON RAHMAN
Might as well call on the DEVIL for all the good it does when you use
false books and reject the teachings of GOD in Christ JESUS.
John 14:6-12

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one
comes to the Father except through Me.

7 The Father Revealed "If you had known Me, you would have known My
Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient
for us."

9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have
not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how
can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?
The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but
the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else
believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. NKJV
John 14:5-11

5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and
how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one
comes to the Father except through Me.
7 The Father Revealed "If you had known Me, you would have known My
Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient
for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have
not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how
can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?
The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but
the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else
believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
NKJV

Rev 3:20-4:1

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and
opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with
Me.

21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I
also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the
churches."'"
NKJV
bob young
2007-03-26 11:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god?
Banal, childish unthinking fool you really are Doc [assuming the latter
claim is not another of your lies]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
[Stephen Roberts]
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Take you false god and false
See above yuo moronic simpleton
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, you miracles is death and
false.
r***@aim.com
2007-03-26 15:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob young
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god?
Banal, childish unthinking fool you really are Doc [assuming the latter
claim is not another of your lies]
I see you think I am a child so you can kill me also, like those folks
in Iraq are doing, you better think again. I never lied to start
with so there is no assuming anything but the truth, it seems you do
not address. Name calling is about all you can do, unless it is a car
bomb, then if you did that maybe you would not be here to post at all.
Post by bob young
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
You can contend till the end of time, doesn't make a word you post
true or anyone you quote correct. I am glad you dismiss me, so then I
not have to read any more of yours or this Roberts lies again.
Post by bob young
[Stephen Roberts]
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Take you false god and false
See above yuo moronic simpleton
Be nice if you could spell, YUO is that the best you can do and you
call me a simpleton. I don't promote killing fellow believers, car
bombs and such, I believe in life in Jesus not death in your Islamic
teachings.
Post by bob young
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, your miracles is death and
false
bob young
2007-03-27 04:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by bob young
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
With all the Islamic folks killing each other in Iraq, why would
anyone want to follow their false god?
Banal, childish unthinking fool you really are Doc [assuming the latter
claim is not another of your lies]
I see you think I am a child so you can kill me also, like those folks
in Iraq are doing, you better think again. I never lied to start
with so there is no assuming anything but the truth, it seems you do
not address. Name calling is about all you can do, unless it is a car
bomb, then if you did that maybe you would not be here to post at all.
Post by bob young
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
You can contend till the end of time, doesn't make a word you post
true or anyone you quote correct. I am glad you dismiss me, so then I
not have to read any more of yours or this Roberts lies again.
Post by bob young
[Stephen Roberts]
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
Take you false god and false
See above yuo moronic simpleton
Be nice if you could spell, YUO is that the best you can do and you
call me a simpleton. I don't promote killing fellow believers, car
bombs and such, I believe in life in Jesus not death in your Islamic
teachings.
The reason i spell bad is I type fast as i have little time to spare talking
to nut cases, nut cases who think, by my posts, i am an Islam supporter rather
than a clear thinking atheist who knows that ALL religions are man made
rubbish that attracts a certain type - you know the type Doctor, folks like
you - power seekers.

Every prophet that ever stood up in front of admiring crowds was a charlatan
lying through his teeth, back in history and today - nothing changes.

Want me to believe in your particular god? Have it show.

[that should be simple enough even for you !]

Bob
humanist

Definition of a Christian

"Anyone psychotic enough to believe in a make-believe
creator of the universe who had a mortal son".

I think that includes
every single Christian in the world.
[Al Klein]


"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor
immovable, but
moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and
theologically
false, and at the least an error of faith."
[Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei]
Post by r***@aim.com
Post by bob young
Post by Dr. R. Knapp
salvation to some Muslims newsgroup, as these false gods are death to
anyone that would follow them. Then that is what we do see in Iran
and Iraq. Just pure "Islam to racism" as that is what all the killing
is about there. Then it is not color it is racism against the god
they say they follow. I just read about the bombers using two small
children in the back of their truck so they would not be stopped, and
then they ran and blew up the truck with the children inside. It
seems like your religion kills and murder is all you guys want.
Jesus is the LORD and until you see that, your miracles is death and
false
bob young
2007-03-26 11:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
From Racism to Islam - "Miracles Do Happen" Marc Springer
My journey to Islam was not the usual one. Most white converts I have
met usually come from a liberal and very open-minded back ground. My
upbringing was far from this. Both of my parents were in the US
military and my upbringing was very strict. My father was very racist,
and because of this, I also was very racist myself until about the age
of 24. I can remember as a child listening to my father lambaste and
attack Arabs and Muslims and bash their religion, their way of life,
and their race. As this was the way I was raised, this is the position
I took as well.
I had a very troubled childhood, as the above can only begin to
describe. My father was an alcoholic and very physically abusive. I
grew up with the constant fear of violence against myself, my mother,
my brother and my sister. Coming from such a background, it only
seemed natural that I would seek a group of people to replace the
family life that I did not have at home. The problem is, with the way
I was raised, the people I sought this companionship from were the
worst of the worst.
For several years, I was heavily involved in the racist skinhead
movement. As with anything else in my life, I was not content to be a
follower, but always enjoyed taking the lead. My involvement in the
neo-Nazi skinhead movement was the same. I was well known and feared
in the town where I grew up.
My longing for family and friends, however, never killed the seed in
my heart that told me what I was doing was wrong and unjust. I
remember a Mexican schoolmate of mine asking me, when I was 16, "Why
do you hang out with those losers, you are better than that." He was
right, but I guess there was a part of me that, even though I hated my
father for what he was doing to the family, wanted to be just like
him. That is where my racism and hatred came from.
The situation at home became worse for me, so I was forced to move out
on my own. I think from this moment this is what sealed my future as a
Muslim getting away from my father and the hatred that he felt, and
experiencing the world and people on my own. The next few years were
pretty rough on me and I continued for many years on the path that I
had started on. I was drinking, doing drugs, and getting into very
serious trouble with the law. All the while, all of the people I had
sought to take the place of my family turned out to be the worst sort
of people: violent, dishonest, and untrustworthy.
I left my home state when I was 23, and, for the first time in my
life, I was able to experience life without the overwhelming figure of
my father hanging over me and the malign influence of my friends. I
started to see all of the carefully crafted lies that my life was
based on crumble around me. I slowly saw all of the truths that my
life was based on unravel. It is at this point that I started to
question everything in my life, including my religious beliefs. I took
the stance that everything in my life was suspect and had to be re-
evaluated.
I had a girlfriend at the time whom I later married. She had also been
active in the racist skinhead scene that I was involved with and I was
always worried that I might offend her with my new ideas and way of
thinking. I had always been an avid reader, and I took the next couple
of years to read everything I could get my hands onto. This passion of
mine led me to collect a small library of books that now consists of
over a thousand volumes, everything from Kant and Descartes to Tariq
Ramadan and Edward Said.
During this time, the Intifada was raging in Palestine. My father,
racist and anti-Semite though he was, had always supported the Jewish
state. I now think that he hated Jews, as well as anyone else who
wasn't white, but he hated the Arabs more than he hated the Jews, so
that is why he supported Israel. As I was rethinking everything I had
been taught when I was younger, I decided to take a closer look at
this struggle in the Middle East.
I started reading general books on Middle Eastern history and the
national politics of the area. Again and again I found that I was
having trouble understanding both the history and politics of the area
because I didn't have any sort of understanding about Islam. As a
child, I had attended church from time to time, but didn't have a firm
grounding in any religion. My father had a hatred of Islam, so as a
teen I had shared this hatred without having a clue as to what Islam
was about or what Muslims believed. It goes without saying that I had
never met a Muslim in my life.
So I started to look into Islam, its history and its beliefs. At this
time, the Internet was gaining in popularity so I used both print and
Internet sources to help me gain an understanding on the basics of
Islam and its history. I was living in Washington State and was not
aware of a Muslim community there, so there was really no one with
whom I could talk. Shortly after this, my wife's job transferred her
to England, so that was all about to change.
When I got to England, my interests strayed for a while. I was in a
new country with a long and rich history, so I spent a few years
exploring this history and traveling all over Europe. But from time to
time, events would draw my attention back to the Middle East and the
politics there. I was now in a country with a long-standing and well-
established Muslim community, although the town I lived in didn't have
any such community. I began now to read in earnest about Islamic
beliefs, ideology, and history. I also started reading the Qur'an .
From the very beginning, certain things struck a chord with me and
answered doubts I had always had concerning the religion I was raised
in. I had always taken issue with the idea that God could have
offsprings. From my readings, I recognized this belief as being
derived from pagan sources. Zeus, Odin, and numerous other pagan gods
all had children.
In the case of Odin, his followers even believed that he had been hung
on a tree, much like Christians believe that Jesus was hung on a
cross. Odinists, the name given to the followers of this ancient
northern European religion, also believed in a trinity of sorts formed
by Odin, his son Thor, and his consort Freja. It was clear this
innovation of the Christians did not have its basis in God, but in
previous pagan beliefs.
The other issue that I had always struggled with was the concept of
original sin. The idea that God could be so unjust as to hold myself
and everyone else responsible for the sins of others who had died
thousands of years before me just seemed so unjust. I had a basic
concept of God, and the idea He could be so unjust to do such a thing
just did not sit well with me.
It always seemed to me that Christians just didn't have the answer to
these questions, and if they did, their answers just reinforced these
unjust positions. I looked to Judaism, but that religion offered more
questions than answers as well. Their attitude towards the prophets
(peace be upon them all) was disgraceful. Their religious texts
accused these greatest of men of the most terrible crimes and I
refused to believe God would pick such men to lead His people on
earth. If Judaism held such beliefs, how could I look to them for
guidance?
It seemed clear that Islam had all of the answers. It cleared up the
confusion of the lie of the trinity and asserted Jesus' true role as a
prophet, and not as the son of God. Islam reveres all of the prophets
and recognizes them for the great people they were. In Islam and the
values it promotes, I saw the answer to my problems and questions, and
the future of mankind. My main issue was to try implementing Islam in
my life.
As I said before, I was married to a woman who came from the same
background as I did. She didn't have an easy time dealing with my
interest in this subject, whether it be Islam or Middle Eastern
politics. I knew that the way I needed to change my life was to start
living in a proper manner, but I knew this was going to cause us
serious issues. It eventually came to the point where I would be
unable to practice my new found religion and stay married to this
woman, so we split up. Before I left England, I went with a young
Lebanese man I had met in London and said my Shahadah in a mosque
there.
When I left my ex-wife, I was forced to leave England. I would have
loved to stay there because the opportunity to learn about my new-
found religion there would have been great, but al-hamdu lillah, I was
to learn later why God chose this turn of events for me. I quickly got
a job working for the US government in Alaska.
Of course, there is not much in the way of a Muslim community in
Alaska, and it is centered in Anchorage and Fairbanks. I was working
hundreds of miles from either of these cities, so I took the
opportunity to continue reading and searching for information
concerning Islam the best I could, from the Internet and other
sources.
I used to travel, from time to time, to the Washington DC area for
business. I made friends within the Muslim community there. At this
point, I had been thinking about getting married. I had been divorced
for several years and I knew that one of the main ways for Muslims to
fulfill their deen (religion) is through marriage.
I was a bit worried about this, being a convert. I knew that many
Muslims came from ethnic backgrounds that would not be too welcoming
of a white American convert marrying their daughter. This was
compounded further because I had tattoos from my teenage years, and I
was very uncertain that I would find a Muslim woman and her family
that would accept me.
A new friend of mine said that he knew of a sister who was looking to
get married, so he asked her if it was OK to give me her number. I
tried to call her when I first got home, but she wasn't there and I
left a message. The next day I called her back, and we talked for
hours. We exchanged e-mail addresses and for the next three days, we
talked for dozens of hours. We hardly slept those first three days. I
got so little sleep that I found myself falling asleep at work. We
talked about all of the important things that we would need to know to
make a successful marriage work.
It was clear from the beginning that we had a lot in common, and that
it all centered around our devotion to our faith and to God. I had
this feeling that she was meant for me. She was such a good God-
fearing Muslim woman and she had so much she could teach me about the
religion. Not only could she teach me about religion, but she could
also help me with Arabic because she was a native speaker. We talked
on the phone and via e-mail for several months.
Talking and e-mailing were wonderful, but we both knew that we had to
meet each other face-to-face to see if the connection we had would
still be there. Always keeping God and our religion in mind, we wanted
to make sure we did everything halal and in the proper manner. We
decided, with the permission of her family, that I would visit during
Ramadan of that year to join the family for dinner and the breaking of
the fast.
I was very nervous, and I think I had a right to be. There is one bit
of information I have left out here and after I say this, you will
understand my nerves. My wife and her family are from Saudi Arabia;
both of her parents were born in Makkah. My earlier fear of the
cultural issues that any prospective wife and her family might have
with me were compounded 100 percent by this fact.
Trusting in God, and having a lump in my throat, I set off to meet
this wonderful woman and what I supposed to be her intimidating
family. I arrived in Washington DC right before sundown, collected my
bags, and waited for a taxi. When it was my turn for a taxi, I jumped
in.
The taxi driver was wearing a red and white checkered gutra, or Arab
headdress. I greeted him with "as-salamu `alaykum" and he returned the
greeting. The sun had gone down and he was just breaking his fast with
a date. He asked if I was fasting, and when I replied in the positive,
he offered me one of his own dates to break my fast. It turned out
this nice older gentleman was originally from Afghanistan, I saw this
as a very positive sign.
After dropping off my luggage at my hotel, I proceeded to the family's
house with a traditional gift of dates and incense in hand. As I got
out of the taxi and started walking up to the door, I just said
"bismillah" to myself and knew God would choose the best for me. All
sorts of scenarios played through my mind. She would like me, but the
family would hate me. The family wouldn't mind, but she would be
indifferent. What if they liked me and I didn't like them? The 20-foot
walk from the curb to the door seemed to me like 20 miles. Finally, I
got to the door and rang the bell.
What seemed to be a dozen people answered the door: family elders,
people my age, sisters, sons, daughters, and family friends. I was
warmly welcomed and asked to come into the house. After I entered, I
was asked to take off my shoes and join the family in the meal they
had made for me. It turned out, al-hamdu lillah, that I need not have
been worried. The family and I took to each other instantly. In
talking during the dinner and after, it was clear that the nice young
woman and I had a connection that transcended the miles and the phone
line.
I came back to the Washington DC area that January, when we got
married in front of friends and family. We took a nice honeymoon, and
then I had to return to my work in Alaska, which was not to finish
until the end of April. When it finished, I moved to the Washington DC
area and took up a job with a division of my company. I have been here
almost two years now.
It is amazing, subhan Allah, how God led me from disbelief in a home
filled with hate and then guided me to Him. At first glance, it might
seem that in my childhood house I couldn't have been farther from
Allah, but I would argue that this wasn't the case. Allah was always
there looking out for me; He directed me through some dangerous and
bad times to become the man and the Muslim that I am today.
People say that miracles do not happen today, but I would contend that
my story proves them wrong.
*(Source IslamOnline.com
Miracles never happen, they are truly the creation of the human mind
[like their gods]

Lies happen though,
as we all clearly know
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