[tor dot com] [cloud shouting] So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

[James Nicoll]

https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

[Quadibloc]

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Think of the poor naive reader who is ignorant of the race of Halflings and the
existence of Tactical Studies Rules and Dungeons and Dragons, who might actually
believe that the premier role-playing game which set the standard for others to
follow was _Empire of the Petal Throne_.

Or other naive readers who might believe that James Nicoll lives in, and somehow
contributes to our Internet from, an alternate universe in which that is the
case.

Yes, let's think of the children, who read things without having a breadth of
background knowledge to help them sift fact from sarcasm; let's institute a
sarcasm control regime!

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

Post by James Nicoll
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Think of the poor naive reader who is ignorant of the race of Halflings and the
existence of Tactical Studies Rules and Dungeons and Dragons, who might actually
believe that the premier role-playing game which set the standard for others to
follow was _Empire of the Petal Throne_.
Or other naive readers who might believe that James Nicoll lives in, and somehow
contributes to our Internet from, an alternate universe in which that is the
case.
Yes, let's think of the children, who read things without having a breadth of
background knowledge to help them sift fact from sarcasm; let's institute a
sarcasm control regime!

Well, I never played _EotPT_, and I did read the Gormenghast
books once, but no longer own copies and have forgotten
practically everything about them. Suum cuique.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.

His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."

And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.

She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.
His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."
And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.
She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Prince Harry went to a party quite a while ago as a
Second World War German. There was consensus that
this was in poor taste. I merely say.

[J. Clarke]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 15:05:46 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.
His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."
And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.
She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Prince Harry went to a party quite a while ago as a
Second World War German. There was consensus that
this was in poor taste. I merely say.

I am reminded of a "Battle of Britain" reunion where everybody in the
community who fought in the battle was invited to come and wear their
uniforms if they had them. There had been a POW camp and several of
the Germans stayed after the war. They came in their Luftwaffe
uniforms. This was unexpected but after some initial dismay it was
decided that they had been in the battle and those were their
uniforms, so why not.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

Post by James Nicoll
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.
His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."
And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.
She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.

Prince Harry went to a party quite a while ago as a
Second World War German. There was consensus that
this was in poor taste. I merely say.

I'll pass that on to Meg ... and try to explain it to Vincent.
But he (and she, for that matter) have inherited my Welsh
stubbornness that I got from my father and he from his, all the
way back to Macsen Wledig, I think.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

Post by James Nicoll
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.
His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."
And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.
She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.

Prince Harry went to a party quite a while ago as a
Second World War German. There was consensus that
this was in poor taste. I merely say.

I'll pass that on to Meg ... and try to explain it to Vincent.
But he (and she, for that matter) have inherited my Welsh
stubbornness that I got from my father and he from his, all the
way back to Macsen Wledig, I think.

Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

Post by James Nicoll
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

Well, last night my grandson went as a Hogwarts student, complete
with cloak, hat, wand, broom, and Gryffindor T-shirt.
His mother, a goth chick from her youth, wants him to go next
year as Lestat, but he has told her next year he wants to go as a
German officer from WWI. (He has developed an intense interest
in the history of the World Wars over the last few months.) His
mother's reaction: "Oh, well, he can go as an *undead* German WWI
officer, and be even more terrifying."
And if she needs to research the uniform, she can always re-watch
Peter Capaldi's final appearance as the Twelfth Doctor, "Twice Upon
a Time," though in that episode we get a lot longer look at the uniform
of a British officer than a German one.
She doesn't know, at this stage, where she's going to get the
spiked helmet, but she's got a year.

Prince Harry went to a party quite a while ago as a
Second World War German. There was consensus that
this was in poor taste. I merely say.

I'll pass that on to Meg ... and try to explain it to Vincent.
But he (and she, for that matter) have inherited my Welsh
stubbornness that I got from my father and he from his, all the
way back to Macsen Wledig, I think.

Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.

I don't know if that will mean anything to him yet.

But if she manages to persuade him to go as an *undead* WWI
German officer, that should make him sufficiently monstrous.

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

The point is to get him not to, I thought? Accuracy isn't entirely
necessary, getting through the skull of a 10 year old with obstinacy
issues is.

Cheers - Jaimie

[Paul S Person]

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.

Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.

They were not well-liked or respected.

My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.

A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.

And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

Well, by the 1970 you could have a guy in an Imperial German-ish
(the setting is mostly imaginary) uniform be a figure of fun
and a bit officious but not really evil in "Santa Claus Is Coming
To Town"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066327/mediaviewer/rm3880557825?ft0=name&fv0=nm0293659&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.

[etc.]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, by the 1970 you could have a guy in an Imperial German-ish
(the setting is mostly imaginary) uniform be a figure of fun
and a bit officious but not really evil in "Santa Claus Is Coming
To Town"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066327/mediaviewer/rm3880557825?ft0=name&fv0=nm0293659&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

Thanks, that's one example.

Although I don't think re-runs of "Der Fuehrer's Face" and "The
Great Dictator" would make contemporary viewers think of the
Nazis as harmless clowns, even though when they were released
they gave their audience a chance to relax just a trifle by
laughing at their enemies.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

Well, by the 1970 you could have a guy in an Imperial German-ish
(the setting is mostly imaginary) uniform be a figure of fun
and a bit officious but not really evil in "Santa Claus Is Coming
To Town"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066327/mediaviewer/rm3880557825?ft0=name&fv0=nm0293659&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

In WWII, the stereotypes changed a bit.

Thus, in /Lifeboat/, the German encourages Smith to go back to
Schmidt, but there is no sign that, if he did so, the others would
treat him any differently.

Nazis were hated, of course. As were Fascists.

But the racist stereotyping of the enemy was mostly confined to the
Japanese.

[Moriarty]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

ObSimpsons

Billy the Kid: "And the most evil German of all time, Kaiser Wilhelm!"

Springfield citizens: "Who?"

-Moriarty

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Moriarty

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.

[etc.]

Post by Moriarty
ObSimpsons
Billy the Kid: "And the most evil German of all time, Kaiser Wilhelm!"
Springfield citizens: "Who?"

Okay, there's another example.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Moriarty
ObSimpsons
Billy the Kid: "And the most evil German of all time, Kaiser Wilhelm!"
Springfield citizens: "Who?"

I think he had a caped detective working for him.

John Savard

[Moriarty]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Wonder Woman.

-Moriarty

[Kevrob]

Post by Moriarty

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Wonder Woman.

Shifted from World War II, as the character dates from
Oct., 1941.

I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

There have been worse retcons in the comics. Post "Crisis On
Infinite Earths," the JSA's WW was not Diana, but her mother!

On "Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In," Artie Johnson got laughs in
WWII Wehrmacht regalia, complete with "Stahlelm," not the
Prussian "Pickelhaube," which was spiked.

Does anyone else remember Harvey Korman playing
"Col. Heindreich von Zeppel," the Prussian balloonist,
on "F-Troop?"

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/bye-bye-balloon-season-two-9-22-66-prussian-balloonist-news-photo/93412506

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

John Savard

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)
John Savard

...Are there two of you posting? One who knew about this film,
and one who didn't?

I don't think the world is ready for human cloning...

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 03:46:49 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)
John Savard

...Are there two of you posting? One who knew about this film,
and one who didn't?
I don't think the world is ready for human cloning...

Don't tell me there's a vat-Quadi.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Robert Carnegie
...Are there two of you posting? One who knew about this film,
and one who didn't?
I don't think the world is ready for human cloning...

I knew a recent film about Wonder Woman was made that starred Gal Gadot. But
until I went and looked it up, I had no idea that it had anything to do with
World War I, so I did not know what Wonder Woman film was being referred to at
the time I read the post mentioning it as a recent film referencing World War I.

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
...Are there two of you posting? One who knew about this film,
and one who didn't?
I don't think the world is ready for human cloning...

I knew a recent film about Wonder Woman was made that starred Gal Gadot. But
until I went and looked it up, I had no idea that it had anything to do with
World War I, so I did not know what Wonder Woman film was being referred to at
the time I read the post mentioning it as a recent film referencing World War I.
John Savard

You should see it. It's entertaining, and Gadot was born to be WW.
Yeah, it's not perfect, but what is?

[Paul S Person]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.

But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.

Maybe they got it right.

<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

[Chrysi Cat]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.

This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

[Paul S Person]

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".

But perhaps I don't understand "empowerment". I thought it meant
"strong, self-reliant, effective, female character inspiring to girls"
but perhaps it means something else.

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <***@4ax.com>, psperson1
@ix.netcom.invalid says...

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".
But perhaps I don't understand "empowerment". I thought it meant
"strong, self-reliant, effective, female character inspiring to girls"
but perhaps it means something else.

Which of those characteristics do you feel Wonder Woman lacks?

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 20:47:33 +0200, Juho Julkunen

Post by Juho Julkunen
@ix.netcom.invalid says...

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".
But perhaps I don't understand "empowerment". I thought it meant
"strong, self-reliant, effective, female character inspiring to girls"
but perhaps it means something else.

Which of those characteristics do you feel Wonder Woman lacks?

I am sorry, I should have been more clear:

I meant "inspiring girls to be strong, self-reliant, and effective",
not "inspiring girls to wear gym tights and show cleavage so they
could play with the boys". Oh, and wishing they were born of Zeus (or
whatever the current story is) on a hidden island which, even if WW
existed, would no be possible.

The female character I am referring to wears clothes, not gym shorts.
Even when she appears in full Green Lantern regalia. And neither
outfit is especially revealing. She becomes a full-fledged member of
the Justice League because of her abilities, not because of how she
dresses. I admit that there is a danger of some girls instead wishing
they were chosen as a Green Lantern, but at least, if the Green
Lantern Corps existed, that is something that could then happen.

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 09:57:44 -0800, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 20:47:33 +0200, Juho Julkunen

Post by Juho Julkunen
@ix.netcom.invalid says...

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".
But perhaps I don't understand "empowerment". I thought it meant
"strong, self-reliant, effective, female character inspiring to girls"
but perhaps it means something else.

Which of those characteristics do you feel Wonder Woman lacks?

I meant "inspiring girls to be strong, self-reliant, and effective",
not "inspiring girls to wear gym tights and show cleavage so they
could play with the boys". Oh, and wishing they were born of Zeus (or
whatever the current story is) on a hidden island which, even if WW
existed, would no be possible.
The female character I am referring to wears clothes, not gym shorts.
Even when she appears in full Green Lantern regalia. And neither
outfit is especially revealing. She becomes a full-fledged member of
the Justice League because of her abilities, not because of how she
dresses. I admit that there is a danger of some girls instead wishing
they were chosen as a Green Lantern, but at least, if the Green
Lantern Corps existed, that is something that could then happen.

Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character. Or maybe a Mormon.

[Kevrob]

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

Post by J. Clarke
Or maybe a Mormon.

Will Shetterly & Vince Stone's "Dr Deseret?"

Kevin R

https://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/DrDeseret.html

Kevin R

[J. Clarke]

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In that outfit she's a Muslim like I'm an Episcopalian. Might have
been born into it and gone through the rituals at an early age, but
she doesn't walk the walk.

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Or maybe a Mormon.

Will Shetterly & Vince Stone's "Dr Deseret?"
Kevin R
https://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/DrDeseret.html

The style looks more modest, but it's only one frame.

Post by Kevrob
Kevin R

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In that outfit she's a Muslim like I'm an Episcopalian. Might have
been born into it and gone through the rituals at an early age, but
she doesn't walk the walk.

Her face is covered, where's the problem?

The Green Lantern discussed is:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Cruz>
Her "origin" usually includes (1) being traumatised by
escaping one or more criminals in an incident where
several female friends were killed, then (2) finding a
magic ring, which isn't an ideal model of empowerment.
Especially the being murdered. Her current or only
comics origin involved the ring possessed by the evil
spirit Volthoom that was used by "bad mirror universe
Justice League" member Power Ring of the Crime Syndicate
of recently devastated Earth-3. Actually, Volthoom was
in charge. The Volthoom ring was destroyed and she got
a proper Green Lantern one.

Other versions of her don't have the Volthoom stuff
and may softpedal, um, her friends being murdered.
By which I mean, for instance, her getting a ring in time
to punish the murderer. Or not including the murders at
all. In what I take as the original story, the murders
and the magic ring are completely separate incidents at
different times in her life. And at the same time,
"women in refrigerators" is her origin story.

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 16:23:47 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In that outfit she's a Muslim like I'm an Episcopalian. Might have
been born into it and gone through the rituals at an early age, but
she doesn't walk the walk.

Her face is covered, where's the problem?

It's my understanding that covering the hair and neck are more
important than covering the face.

There's also the general immodesty however given the number of women I
see around who wear the hijab with skin tight jeans, I don't think
that that's really that mudh of an issue.

Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Cruz>
Her "origin" usually includes (1) being traumatised by
escaping one or more criminals in an incident where
several female friends were killed, then (2) finding a
magic ring, which isn't an ideal model of empowerment.
Especially the being murdered. Her current or only
comics origin involved the ring possessed by the evil
spirit Volthoom that was used by "bad mirror universe
Justice League" member Power Ring of the Crime Syndicate
of recently devastated Earth-3. Actually, Volthoom was
in charge. The Volthoom ring was destroyed and she got
a proper Green Lantern one.
Other versions of her don't have the Volthoom stuff
and may softpedal, um, her friends being murdered.
By which I mean, for instance, her getting a ring in time
to punish the murderer. Or not including the murders at
all. In what I take as the original story, the murders
and the magic ring are completely separate incidents at
different times in her life. And at the same time,
"women in refrigerators" is her origin story.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 16:23:47 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In that outfit she's a Muslim like I'm an Episcopalian. Might have
been born into it and gone through the rituals at an early age, but
she doesn't walk the walk.

Her face is covered, where's the problem?

It's my understanding that covering the hair and neck are more
important than covering the face.
There's also the general immodesty however given the number of women I
see around who wear the hijab with skin tight jeans, I don't think
that that's really that mudh of an issue.

I don't think there's specific costume rules for Muslims.
The subject is better understood as a cultural convention.

Anyway, she's been doing it for years.

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 17:48:37 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 16:23:47 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character.

Here you go: the current "Ms Marvel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In that outfit she's a Muslim like I'm an Episcopalian. Might have
been born into it and gone through the rituals at an early age, but
she doesn't walk the walk.

Her face is covered, where's the problem?

It's my understanding that covering the hair and neck are more
important than covering the face.
There's also the general immodesty however given the number of women I
see around who wear the hijab with skin tight jeans, I don't think
that that's really that mudh of an issue.

I don't think there's specific costume rules for Muslims.
The subject is better understood as a cultural convention.

Then you really need to read a bit more, because the Q'uran has a bit
to say about attire.

Post by Robert Carnegie
Anyway, she's been doing it for years.

Doesn't make her a practicing Muslim.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 09:57:44 -0800, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 20:47:33 +0200, Juho Julkunen

Post by Juho Julkunen
@ix.netcom.invalid says...

Post by Paul S Person
But perhaps I don't understand "empowerment". I thought it meant
"strong, self-reliant, effective, female character inspiring to girls"
but perhaps it means something else.

Which of those characteristics do you feel Wonder Woman lacks?

I meant "inspiring girls to be strong, self-reliant, and effective",
not "inspiring girls to wear gym tights and show cleavage so they
could play with the boys". Oh, and wishing they were born of Zeus (or
whatever the current story is) on a hidden island which, even if WW
existed, would no be possible.
The female character I am referring to wears clothes, not gym shorts.
Even when she appears in full Green Lantern regalia. And neither
outfit is especially revealing. She becomes a full-fledged member of
the Justice League because of her abilities, not because of how she
dresses. I admit that there is a danger of some girls instead wishing
they were chosen as a Green Lantern, but at least, if the Green
Lantern Corps existed, that is something that could then happen.

Oh, you want a _Muslim_ female character. Or maybe a Mormon.

It certainly _is_ true that a female superhero of the traditional kind - one who
either has greater strength than ordinary people, or who has training in martial
arts or that sort of thing - is going to be physically active in the course of
her duties. So she will need to wear clothing that allows freedom of movement.

However, it doesn't need to be gratuitously revealing even so.

I haven't been in comic book shops much recently, but certainly around ten years
ago or so the degree to which the proportions and costumes of female superheroes
were designed for a rather blatant level of sex appeal was sufficient to be
discouraging to advocates of equal rights for women.

John Savard

[David Johnston]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".

Just because a character is female and has superpowers doesn't mean that
she's obligated to be "empowering". The Wonder Woman film wasn't about
female empowerment. It was about war and the real reasons why war
happens and that it can't be eliminated just by finding one particularly
atrocious bad guy and giving him a thrashing.

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:01:56 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

The GOLDEN AGE version was proto-feminist and written by a man (though
unfortunately a man _very_ into BDSM and not a fan of dominatrices, so
that's why she loses her powers when tied up with her own weapon.
This is definitely a case of "got it right", not "stray XXI. century
empowerment".

As I think I mentioned before, I found the novice Green Lantern in
/Justice League vs the Fatal Five/, who triumphs over PTSD by the end
of the film, far more likely to be "empowering".

Just because a character is female and has superpowers doesn't mean that
she's obligated to be "empowering". The Wonder Woman film wasn't about
female empowerment. It was about war and the real reasons why war
happens and that it can't be eliminated just by finding one particularly
atrocious bad guy and giving him a thrashing.

Are you sure? All the reviewers seemed to think otherwise.

But perhaps they changed their minds once they actually saw it.

Really? I would have thought that defeating Ares (who appears to have
stolen, if not Zeus's thunder, most certainly his lightning) would
have resulted in a quick peace, a working League of Nations, and no
World War II. Or any other wars. That seemed to /me/ to be the theory,
anyway.

Which would mean that every /other/ DC film is on an alternate time
line from ours. Of course, that's fairly obvious anyway.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:01:56 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston
Just because a character is female and has superpowers doesn't mean that
she's obligated to be "empowering". The Wonder Woman film wasn't about
female empowerment. It was about war and the real reasons why war
happens and that it can't be eliminated just by finding one particularly
atrocious bad guy and giving him a thrashing.

Are you sure? All the reviewers seemed to think otherwise.
But perhaps they changed their minds once they actually saw it.

While he is, according to what I have now read about the movie, quite correct as
to what the movie was *about*, that doesn't preclude it also having a message of
female empowerment. After all, the protagonist is famale, and she is doing more
about a major world crisis than staying home and keeping house.

John Savard

[David Johnston]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.

The story they were telling could not be told about World War II because
it required the two sides to be not that different in their wickedness.

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.

How?

Post by Paul S Person
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

[Paul S Person]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 23:32:49 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
I suspected, when that changed was announced, that it was
done to avoid restrictions in Germany,or to avoid comparisons
to Marvel's "Captain America" films. Arguably, it was an
artistic choice.

The story they were telling could not be told about World War II because
it required the two sides to be not that different in their wickedness.

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Kevrob
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-wonder-woman-had-be-set-world-war-i

It *was* set in World War I. And it had the makings of a great movie, and then
they pulled the rug out from under it in the last reel? (facepalm)

For me, they did that almost immediately.

How?

To be honest, I don't remember.

Which, BTW, is not a good sign.

Forgetting a movie I saw so recently suggests I /really/ didn't like
it.

Post by David Johnston

Post by Paul S Person
But then, I don't read comics, so I really have /no/ idea of her
character.
Maybe they got it right.
<grump mode>
Or maybe they were too concerned with "empowerment". As if a female
character who only gets to play with the boys because she wears gym
shorts and shows cleavage is "empowering".
</grump mode>

[Quadibloc]

Post by Moriarty

I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Wonder Woman.

Huh? Wonder Woman originally dealt with World War II, and then later the Cold
War in the comics - and the pilot movie for the Wonder Woman TV series was also
set in World War II.

Although I suppose a more recent Wonder Woman movie could have been set in World
War I, but that would surprise me.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Moriarty

I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Wonder Woman.

Huh? Wonder Woman originally dealt with World War II, and then later the Cold
War in the comics - and the pilot movie for the Wonder Woman TV series was also
set in World War II.
Although I suppose a more recent Wonder Woman movie could have been set in World
War I, but that would surprise me.

Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.

Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

Here she is going over the top in no-man's land:

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

John Savard

[Paul S Person]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.

Or maybe they didnt'.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.
Or maybe they didnt'.

Ms. Gadot is an Israeli citizen and as such served a term in the IDF.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.

Ms. Gadot is an Israeli citizen and as such served a term in the IDF.

I'm sure he knew that Gal Gadot only *plays* Wonder Woman, and was joking.

I knew that she was Israeli, and that she served a term in the Israeli Defence Forces (and he probably knew at least as much too).

However, your statement still came as a surprise to me.

But I looked it up, and Wikipedia tells me that, yes, military service is also
compulsory for women in Israel now as well.

However, I *am* shocked, shocked I say, that the movie has taken another liberty
with Wonder Woman. The place populated entirely by women that she comes from is
Paradise Island, not Atlantis!

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.

Ms. Gadot is an Israeli citizen and as such served a term in the IDF.

I'm sure he knew that Gal Gadot only *plays* Wonder Woman, and was joking.
I knew that she was Israeli, and that she served a term in the Israeli
Defence Forces (and he probably knew at least as much too).
However, your statement still came as a surprise to me.
But I looked it up, and Wikipedia tells me that, yes, military service is also
compulsory for women in Israel now as well.
However, I *am* shocked, shocked I say, that the movie has taken another liberty
with Wonder Woman. The place populated entirely by women that she comes from is
Paradise Island, not Atlantis!

In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

It's another DC hero entirely who is from Atlantis.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's another DC hero entirely who is from Atlantis.

I hope that hero is Aquaman. Or possibly Power Girl, even though in the
comics she
is back to being from a Hypertime variant of Krypton, last time I
looked. Come to
think of it, I think back in the '70s, there was another DC hero from Atlantis,
but I don't think he has been in any movies.
John Savard

Yeah, Aquaman, whose movie was a good spectacle if not nearly as good as WW's.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about Power Girl being retconned as a descendant
of Arion of Atlantis. I think all of that has been re-retconned now.

[Kevrob]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's another DC hero entirely who is from Atlantis.

I hope that hero is Aquaman. Or possibly Power Girl, even though in the
comics she
is back to being from a Hypertime variant of Krypton, last time I
looked. Come to
think of it, I think back in the '70s, there was another DC hero from Atlantis,
but I don't think he has been in any movies.
John Savard

Yeah, Aquaman, whose movie was a good spectacle if not nearly as good as WW's.
Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about Power Girl being retconned as a descendant
of Arion of Atlantis. I think all of that has been re-retconned now.

...wait 5 minutes....

Kevin R

[Kevrob]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's another DC hero entirely who is from Atlantis.

I hope that hero is Aquaman. Or possibly Power Girl, even though in the comics she
is back to being from a Hypertime variant of Krypton, last time I looked. Come to
think of it, I think back in the '70s, there was another DC hero from Atlantis,
but I don't think he has been in any movies.

The mage known as Arion was, at least temporarily, an ancestor of
one version of Power Girl (Karen Starr.) That was the early 1980s.

https://www.comics.org/issue/36794/cover/4/

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

Post by Kevrob

I hope that hero is Aquaman. Or possibly Power Girl, even though in the comics she
is back to being from a Hypertime variant of Krypton, last time I looked. Come to
think of it, I think back in the '70s, there was another DC hero from Atlantis,
but I don't think he has been in any movies.

The mage known as Arion was, at least temporarily, an ancestor of
one version of Power Girl (Karen Starr.) That was the early 1980s.
https://www.comics.org/issue/36794/cover/4/

Yes, it was Arion I was thinking of. I didn't remember the name, so I looked up
"Ixion", a real legendary character, it turned out, who also served as a short-
lived villain in Wonder Woman.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.
John Savard

It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

[J. Clarke]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.
John Savard

It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

I can see where the old stratagem might create issues. "Diana Prince"
likely doesn't sit to well with fans of the real Princess Diana,
especially after her unfortunate and untimely demise.

[Kevrob]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.
John Savard

It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

I can see where the old stratagem might create issues. "Diana Prince"
likely doesn't sit to well with fans of the real Princess Diana,
especially after her unfortunate and untimely demise.

WW had that name before Ms Spenser did.

BTW, the film is on TBS tonight,and twice on Saturday.

X of Y is a standard way to refer to a "noble" person.

Kevin R



Kevin R

[J. Clarke]

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.
John Savard

It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

I can see where the old stratagem might create issues. "Diana Prince"
likely doesn't sit to well with fans of the real Princess Diana,
especially after her unfortunate and untimely demise.

WW had that name before Ms Spenser did.

So? You are expecting emotional responsed to be rational.

Post by Kevrob
BTW, the film is on TBS tonight,and twice on Saturday.
X of Y is a standard way to refer to a "noble" person.

So 7 of 9 and 6 of 1 were "noble" persons?

Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Kevin R

[Kevrob]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob
X of Y is a standard way to refer to a "noble" person.

So 7 of 9

Alien naming convention. Besides, that's just the short form.
She was actually "Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01."

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_of_Nine

Post by J. Clarke
...and 6 of 1 were "noble" persons?

I'm blanking on that, except for:

http://www.sixofone.co/

There was a New Battlestar Galactica episode with that
name, referencing Tricia Helfer's character by way of
Patrick McGoohan's.

Kevin R

[J. Clarke]

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob
X of Y is a standard way to refer to a "noble" person.

So 7 of 9

Alien naming convention. Besides, that's just the short form.
She was actually "Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01."
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_of_Nine

Post by J. Clarke
...and 6 of 1 were "noble" persons?

http://www.sixofone.co/

"Tripping the Rift".

Post by Kevrob
There was a New Battlestar Galactica episode with that
name, referencing Tricia Helfer's character by way of
Patrick McGoohan's.
Kevin R

[Kevrob]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
...and 6 of 1 were "noble" persons?

http://www.sixofone.co/

"Tripping the Rift".

Ah! I never saw that. Thanks.

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

Post by Kevrob

Post by J. Clarke
...and 6 of 1 were "noble" persons?

I'm blanking on that,

There is a common phraze, "six of one, and half a dozen of the other". Since the
character of Seven of Nine was brought into Voyager for two obvious reasons,
perhaps one of them is named Six of One and the other one is named Half a Dozen of
the Other.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...

but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.

She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.

John Savard

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...
but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.
She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.
John Savard

While I suppose she may go undercover from time to time, she currently has
no secret identity. Why this does not negatively affect her life when
other super heroes assume it would negatively affect *theirs* is one of those
things that you don't think too hard about.

[David Johnston]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...
but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.
She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.
John Savard

While I suppose she may go undercover from time to time, she currently has
no secret identity. Why this does not negatively affect her life when
other super heroes assume it would negatively affect *theirs* is one of those
things that you don't think too hard about.

She doesn't need or want a job, she's rich and she has diplomatic
immunity. Her family is tucked away on an invisible island. She's
pretty darn insulated from consequences.

[Chrysi Cat]

Post by David Johnston

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 9:48:23 PM UTC-7, Ted Nolan

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...
but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.
She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was
Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.
John Savard

While I suppose she may go undercover from time to time, she currently has
no secret identity.  Why this does not negatively affect her life when
other super heroes assume it would negatively affect *theirs* is one of those
things that you don't think too hard about.

She doesn't need or want a job, she's rich and she has diplomatic
immunity.  Her family is tucked away on an invisible island.  She's
pretty darn insulated from consequences.

Unfortunately, in the current continuity, she HAS biological family
rather than being made from clay, though yes, being on an invisible
island makes them hard to attack.

And then there's her magical, de-aged duplicate who DOES have a secret
identity. And despite being "younger in this timeline" than Diana also
has 200 lifetimes of tragedy that she remembers on-and-off, depending on
how Dark Angel feels about trying to make her suffer.

That said, Donna and to a MUCH greater extent _either_ of the Sandsmark
women can never be shown exist in the movieverse for obvious reasons :-P

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 9:48:23 PM UTC-7, Ted Nolan

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of

Themyscira".

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...
but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.
She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.
John Savard

While I suppose she may go undercover from time to time, she currently has
no secret identity. Why this does not negatively affect her life when
other super heroes assume it would negatively affect *theirs* is one of those
things that you don't think too hard about.

She doesn't need or want a job, she's rich and she has diplomatic
immunity. Her family is tucked away on an invisible island. She's
pretty darn insulated from consequences.

Except for the consequence that everybody and his evil brother knows where
she lives. (And where her not-bulletproof squeeze hangs out).

[J. Clarke]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
It's somewhat amusingly established in the current run of the WW comic
that Diana has no last name, so she signs documents as "Diana of Themyscira".

Wonder Woman may indeed have no last name, and sign documents "Diana of
Themyscira"... actually, that means that "of Themyscira" _is_ her last name,
just as Van Pelt is Lucy's last name...
but if she were Diana of Themyscira in her *secret identity*, that would be like
a certain Daily Planet reporter signing documents as Clark of Krypton (as
opposed to Clark of Smallville?). It would rather let the cat out of the bag.
She was Wonder Women when she was Wonder Woman, and she was Lieutenant Diana
Prince when she wasn't.
John Savard

While I suppose she may go undercover from time to time, she currently has
no secret identity. Why this does not negatively affect her life when
other super heroes assume it would negatively affect *theirs* is one of those
things that you don't think too hard about.

All of her relatives are back home and anybody who thinks he can get
at her by messing with them is _not_ going to be _happy_.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In general the place is now identified by the local name: "Themyscira"
rather than the exonym "Paradise Island", and the movie does do that.

Shows how good my memory is. I had thought that Themyscira was where the Amazons
used to live back in the time of ancient Greece, and they later moved to Paradise
Island after events connected to the Wonder Woman backstory.
John Savard

I think Themiscyra has been actually moved and/or made "unplottable"
in stories - well, "unplottable" is from Harry Potter but it makes
it hard to get there.

But not all stories exist since the latest cosmological "crisis".
I think that'll stand even if I have missed a crisis...

[David Johnston]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.

Ms. Gadot is an Israeli citizen and as such served a term in the IDF.

I'm sure he knew that Gal Gadot only *plays* Wonder Woman, and was joking.
I knew that she was Israeli, and that she served a term in the Israeli Defence Forces (and he probably knew at least as much too).
However, your statement still came as a surprise to me.
But I looked it up, and Wikipedia tells me that, yes, military service is also
compulsory for women in Israel now as well.
However, I *am* shocked, shocked I say, that the movie has taken another liberty
with Wonder Woman. The place populated entirely by women that she comes from is
Paradise Island, not Atlantis!
John Savard

Actually it's Themyscira. They haven't called it a Paradise Island in a
very long time.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.

Ms. Gadot is an Israeli citizen and as such served a term in the IDF.

I'm sure he knew that Gal Gadot only *plays* Wonder Woman, and was joking.

I wish! I simply missed the entire point of the ban.

Post by Quadibloc
I knew that she was Israeli, and that she served a term in the Israeli Defence Forces (and he probably knew at least as much too).
However, your statement still came as a surprise to me.
But I looked it up, and Wikipedia tells me that, yes, military service is also
compulsory for women in Israel now as well.

I actually rented and saw a movie about that (Israeli women in the
Army). I didn't find it all that great (the one about the Egyptian
band that winds up in the middle of nowhere in Israel was better).

Post by Quadibloc
However, I *am* shocked, shocked I say, that the movie has taken another liberty
with Wonder Woman. The place populated entirely by women that she comes from is
Paradise Island, not Atlantis!

That appears to be another of my lapses.

As I believe I said, I do /not/ read the comics, so I miss stuff.

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:47:38 -0800, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,
populated entirely by women.
Or maybe they didnt'.

Uh, Gal Gadot's country is Israel and she served in the armed forces
of that country.

[David Johnston]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,

No. It was Israel. Their objection wasn't to the content of the film.

[Paul S Person]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 23:33:46 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, Quadi, you really _do_ need to get out more.
Wonder Woman, starring Gal Gadot, released Jun 2, 2017, in theaters 23
weeks, grossed $821,847,012, Rottentomatoes 93% Fresh, 88% audience
score with 128,467 ratings.

I was aware of the movie, although I didn't go and see it, and I had no idea it
was set in World War I. I even noted the controversy where certain Arab
countries banned it because Gal Gadot had served in her country's armed forces.

I guess they missed the part where "her country" was Atlantis,

No. It was Israel. Their objection wasn't to the content of the film.

Normally, I would say "that was very stupid". As, indeed, it was.

But, in this case, I think they dodged a bullet.

Keep in mind that I did /not/ like the film.

[David Johnston]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Moriarty

I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Wonder Woman.

Huh? Wonder Woman originally dealt with World War II, and then later the Cold
War in the comics - and the pilot movie for the Wonder Woman TV series was also
set in World War II.
Although I suppose a more recent Wonder Woman movie could have been set in World
War I, but that would surprise me.
John Savard

You can start being surprised now

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

There is a new WWI movie coming out soon, "1917". Releasing on
Christmas day.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8579674/

Kind of a "Saving Private Ryan".

Lynn

[Paul S Person]

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:27:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

There is a new WWI movie coming out soon, "1917". Releasing on
Christmas day.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8579674/
Kind of a "Saving Private Ryan".

A 30 minutes reprise of /The Longest Day/ followed by a /completely/
unexceptional "small unit behind enemy lines" film?

In the category of "small unit behind enemy lines" films" my favorite
is and (I suspect) always will be /The Warriors/.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Sure, Peter Jackson's "They Shall Not Grow Old". Lots of media attention.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Sure, Peter Jackson's "They Shall Not Grow Old". Lots of media attention.

I've seen it. It is strictly the reminisces of UK veterans about their
experiences on the front line. Doesn't even mention the German
government and generally paints the German soldiers as not really any
different than the UK soldiers.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
    Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it.  She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more.  (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._)  I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

Sure, Peter Jackson's "They Shall Not Grow Old".  Lots of media
attention.

I've seen it.  It is strictly the reminisces of UK veterans about their
experiences on the front line.  Doesn't even mention the German
government and generally paints the German soldiers as not really any
different than the UK soldiers.

Which is almost certainly the case. The average soldier does what he is
told and tries to stay alive (not necessarily in that order).

[J. Clarke]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"
2017 "Wonder Woman"
2011 "War Horse"
2008 "The Red Baron"
2006 "Flyboys"

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"
2017 "Wonder Woman"
2011 "War Horse"
2008 "The Red Baron"
2006 "Flyboys"

If one uses a more elastic definition of "recent", of course, the name of one
Australian film comes to mind - Gallipoli.

John Savard

[Bill Dugan]

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:51:35 -0800, Paul S Person

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

It did. I got the DVD from Netflix in August.

Post by J. Clarke
2017 "Wonder Woman"
2011 "War Horse"
2008 "The Red Baron"
2006 "Flyboys"

[Dimensional Traveler]

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

'Tolkien' came out long enough ago that it is out on disc now.
'1917' has not yet been released. It will hit theatres on Christmas day.

[David Johnston]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
    Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it.  She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more.  (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._)  I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

'Tolkien' came out long enough ago that it is out on disc now.
'1917' has not yet been released.  It will hit theatres on Christmas day.

Hunh. If they do that then maybe the Christmas Truce will rear its
saccharine head

[Paul S Person]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 19:53:57 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Dimensional Traveler

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
    Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it.  She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more.  (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._)  I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

'Tolkien' came out long enough ago that it is out on disc now.
'1917' has not yet been released.  It will hit theatres on Christmas day.

Hunh. If they do that then maybe the Christmas Truce will rear its
saccharine head

Wasn't that in 1914?

Or am I thinking of something else?

[David Johnston]

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 19:53:57 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Dimensional Traveler

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
    Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it.  She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more.  (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._)  I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

'Tolkien' came out long enough ago that it is out on disc now.
'1917' has not yet been released.  It will hit theatres on Christmas day.

Hunh. If they do that then maybe the Christmas Truce will rear its
saccharine head

Wasn't that in 1914?
Or am I thinking of something else?

No, you're right. I was just thinking that it's an odd choice for a
Christmas blockbuster.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 19:53:57 -0700, David Johnston

Post by David Johnston

Post by Dimensional Traveler

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
     Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it.  She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more.  (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._)  I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

'Tolkien' came out long enough ago that it is out on disc now.
'1917' has not yet been released.  It will hit theatres on Christmas day.

Hunh. If they do that then maybe the Christmas Truce will rear its
saccharine head

Wasn't that in 1914?
Or am I thinking of something else?

No, you're right.  I was just thinking that it's an odd choice for a
Christmas blockbuster.

Counter programming maybe. A non-saccharine (or at least less
saccharine considering what the McGuffin of the movie is) option to all
the feel good Xmas movies. Also Oscar eligibility.

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:51:35 -0800, Paul S Person

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 17:51:11 -0500, J. Clarke

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.
There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

Dang. I _missed_ it.

Post by J. Clarke
2017 "Wonder Woman"
2011 "War Horse"
2008 "The Red Baron"
2006 "Flyboys"

[Moriarty]

Post by Bill Dugan
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:51:35 -0800, Paul S Person

<snip>

Post by Bill Dugan

Post by J. Clarke

There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

2019 (not yet released) "1917"
2019 (not yet released) "Tolkien"

I thought that flopped -- uh, came out -- already.

Dang. I _missed_ it.

So did I, something I have just rectified.

It was... ok. As the story of various people whose lives in early 1900s England were shattered by the war, it was a good movie. As a biography of JRR and Edith Tolkien, it was ordinary. The Tolkien family had similar objections.

YMMV.

-Moriarty

[p***@hotmail.com]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

Sounds good: spare ribs with victory cabbage and a side order of freedom fries.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Paul S Person]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 10:35:01 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Tell him it's like dressing up as a confederate slaveowner.
Cheers - Jaimie

Since he wants to dress as a WW I German officer, not WW II, and
especially not as a Gestapo officer, would that still hold true?

Depends on how many still retain a vistigial memory of how the Germans
were regarded by their enemies in WWI.
Hint: The Hun. Nun-rapers. Baby-eaters.
They were not well-liked or respected.
My maternal grandparents had trash tossed in their yard for daring to
have a German last name.
A lot of "Schmidt"s became "Smith"s.
And "sauerkraut" became "victory cabbage".

And people kicked dachshunds.
I'll mention this concern to my daughter, but I doubt she'll be
impressed by it. She is my daughter and Vincent's mother, and
has her own full share of Welshness.

As I said, it depends on how many still remember those times. Since
they were over 100 years ago, my guess would be -- not very many.

There have been zillions of movies about Nazis and WWII; fewer about
WWI, and I suspect that most of them are not available to the general
public any more. (With the probable exception of _All Quiet on
the Western Front._) I haven't done the research, though; can
anyone name a film in recent years that dealt with WWI and came
to the full public attention?

I don't know about "the full public attention" and it didn't come out
in "recent years", but /Oh! What a Lovely War/ explores the British
side and humanizes the Hun. (It is a musical using songs actually sung
at the time, some of them soldier's versions of well-known songs.
"When this lousy war is over", for example, in place of "What a friend
we have in Jesus" -- IIRC).

It may be a bit hard to get into, given how they chose to do it, but
the ending makes it a /great/ anti-war film.

Then there is /Valiant/. This is an animated films about pigeons in
WWII -- but the /villain/ is straight out of WWI!

[William Hyde]

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

No love for Flay?

Though nowadays I think I'd fit into a Swelter costume better. A thin, handsome, svelte Swelter, of course!

William Hyde

[Moriarty]

Post by William Hyde

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

No love for Flay?
Though nowadays I think I'd fit into a Swelter costume better. A thin, handsome, svelte Swelter, of course!

I don't believe such person ever existed! One of the things the TV series got right was the cast and Richard Griffiths portrayal as Swelter was spot on. He and Christopher Lee played off each other the way Lee and Peter Cushing used to.

-Moriarty

[Titus G]

Post by Moriarty

Post by William Hyde

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...

The rituals of Halloween have never really caught hold in NZ so I am
spared being confronted with our future politicians and salespeople
being trained to be something more powerful in the guise of a mere
symbol of tradition, to be trained to demand protection money or perhaps
I was blacklisted some years ago when my offered treat of healthy raw
carrot was rejected without ensuing trick.

Post by Moriarty

Post by William Hyde
No love for Flay?
Though nowadays I think I'd fit into a Swelter costume better. A
thin, handsome, svelte Swelter, of course!

I don't believe such person ever existed! One of the things the TV
series got right was the cast and Richard Griffiths portrayal as
Swelter was spot on. He and Christopher Lee played off each other the
way Lee and Peter Cushing used to.
-Moriarty

(The character development was rubbish.)
The casting was brilliant.
The cast was brilliant.
The costumes and staging were brilliant. Though when I think of
Steerpike or Fuschia, Peake's illustrations survive.
With all others the TV series pictures are what remain.
I have read the books too many times to remember and it didn't gel as it
used to on my last read but think I would like to watch that series
again. I am sure the remaining "video" store here will have a dvd.
Who cares?
<Groan>

[Jerry Brown]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Moriarty

Post by William Hyde

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...
The rituals of Halloween have never really caught hold in NZ so I am
spared being confronted with our future politicians and salespeople
being trained to be something more powerful in the guise of a mere
symbol of tradition, to be trained to demand protection money or perhaps
I was blacklisted some years ago when my offered treat of healthy raw
carrot was rejected without ensuing trick.

Post by Moriarty

Post by William Hyde
No love for Flay?
Though nowadays I think I'd fit into a Swelter costume better. A
thin, handsome, svelte Swelter, of course!

I don't believe such person ever existed! One of the things the TV
series got right was the cast and Richard Griffiths portrayal as
Swelter was spot on. He and Christopher Lee played off each other the
way Lee and Peter Cushing used to.
-Moriarty

(The character development was rubbish.)
The casting was brilliant.
The cast was brilliant.
The costumes and staging were brilliant. Though when I think of
Steerpike or Fuschia, Peake's illustrations survive.

Nowadays Fuschia's TV incarnation is better known as a lizard-woman
from the dawn of time.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by James Nicoll
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/01/so-tired-of-all-these-gormenghast-costumes-year-after-year/

Post by James Nicoll
So Tired of All These Gormenghast Costumes, Year After Year...
The rituals of Halloween have never really caught hold in NZ so I am
spared being confronted with our future politicians and salespeople
being trained to be something more powerful in the guise of a mere
symbol of tradition, to be trained to demand protection money or perhaps
I was blacklisted some years ago when my offered treat of healthy raw
carrot was rejected without ensuing trick.

Post by Moriarty

Post by William Hyde
No love for Flay?
Though nowadays I think I'd fit into a Swelter costume better. A
thin, handsome, svelte Swelter, of course!

I don't believe such person ever existed! One of the things the TV
series got right was the cast and Richard Griffiths portrayal as
Swelter was spot on. He and Christopher Lee played off each other the
way Lee and Peter Cushing used to.
-Moriarty

(The character development was rubbish.)
The casting was brilliant.
The cast was brilliant.
The costumes and staging were brilliant. Though when I think of
Steerpike or Fuschia, Peake's illustrations survive.

Nowadays Fuschia's TV incarnation is better known as a lizard-woman
from the dawn of time.

And an admirable lizard-woman to have on your side.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Jerry Brown
Nowadays Fuschia's TV incarnation is better known as a lizard-woman
from the dawn of time.

It took a fair amount of Googling before I was able to determine that the
reference is to the British actress Neve McIntosh, who played the Lady Fuchsia
Groan in a televised adaptation of Gormenghast, and then went on to play Madame
Vastra in the Doctor Who series.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Jerry Brown
Nowadays Fuschia's TV incarnation is better known as a lizard-woman
from the dawn of time.

It took a fair amount of Googling before I was able to determine that the
reference is to the British actress Neve McIntosh, who played the Lady Fuchsia
Groan in a televised adaptation of Gormenghast, and then went on to play
Madame Vastra in the Doctor Who series.

That's the one. I never saw Gormenghast on TV, and it's been so
long since I read the books that I've completely forgotten who
Lady Fuchsia is/was, but Madame Vastra and her colleagues of the
Paternoster Gang have a permanent spot in my heart, somewhere
around the left ventricle.