Discussion:
Boring Parts of Future History
(too old to reply)
Jack Bohn
2019-05-23 16:54:06 UTC
Permalink
One other helpful feature of explainxkcd.com is crosslinks to comics on similar thoughts.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2152:_Westerns

Is about Westerns as a genre lasting longer than the Wild West period. There's a link to a post about the question whether the length of all the movies about World War II adds up to more time than the war years. This can be extended up and down. The Grandeur That Was Rome has been talked about since folks realized Rome was grander than what was around them. The Kennedy assassination footage takes longer to view than the event; documentaries and docudramas stretches the definition: if they cover preparations and root causes, shouldn't our measure of the Real Time of the event, too?

But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the 19-oughts." Are there any future histories where the timeline is marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
--
-Jack
Ahasuerus
2019-05-23 17:00:56 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, Jack Bohn wrote:
[snip]
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. [snip]
Regency romance!
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-23 17:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. [snip]
Regency romance!
As a subset of the Napoleonic Wars.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-05-23 18:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
[snip]
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. [snip]
Regency romance!
As a subset of the Napoleonic Wars.
"The battlefields are smaller, but the action is just as intense!"
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-23 17:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.

Are there any future histories where the timeline is
Post by Jack Bohn
marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
Well, I have currently on the back burner a space opera whose
timeline includes (for some senses of "includes") The Interregnum,
a several-centuries period during which technology suffered a
hit, there was no space travel, and a lot of things that happened
before it have become the stuff of myth and legend. This
includes _inter alia_ how Mars and Venus were terraformed.

I did this so that I could have a desertish Mars and a swampish
Venus in my space opera, as all true space operas ought to have.
I may even take it off the back burner someday.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2019-05-23 19:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Are there any future histories where the timeline is
Post by Jack Bohn
marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
Well, I have currently on the back burner a space opera whose
timeline includes (for some senses of "includes") The Interregnum,
a several-centuries period during which technology suffered a
hit, there was no space travel, and a lot of things that happened
before it have become the stuff of myth and legend. This
includes _inter alia_ how Mars and Venus were terraformed.
I did this so that I could have a desertish Mars and a swampish
Venus in my space opera, as all true space operas ought to have.
I may even take it off the back burner someday.
Have you tried S M Stirling's faux-Burroughs/Kline books?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_People [For Venus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Courts_of_the_Crimson_Kings
For Mars]

You might like them, but in authoress mode, you might want
to avoid, lest ye be influenced.

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-23 20:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Are there any future histories where the timeline is
Post by Jack Bohn
marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
Well, I have currently on the back burner a space opera whose
timeline includes (for some senses of "includes") The Interregnum,
a several-centuries period during which technology suffered a
hit, there was no space travel, and a lot of things that happened
before it have become the stuff of myth and legend. This
includes _inter alia_ how Mars and Venus were terraformed.
I did this so that I could have a desertish Mars and a swampish
Venus in my space opera, as all true space operas ought to have.
I may even take it off the back burner someday.
Have you tried S M Stirling's faux-Burroughs/Kline books?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_People [For Venus]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Courts_of_the_Crimson_Kings
For Mars]
You might like them, but in authoress mode, you might want
to avoid, lest ye be influenced.
Or distracted. I am supposed to be working on something else.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jack Bohn
2019-05-23 22:21:09 UTC
Permalink
 
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, 
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the 
19-oughts." 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real 
difference, but a very small one. 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way (has anyone transposed The Music Man to sf? "Welcome out Io way, now go home...") Our capital is Clombus, Hiyo; two syllbols is enough for any word, more would be ostentatious.
--
-Jack
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-23 23:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
 
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, 
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the 
19-oughts." 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real 
difference, but a very small one. 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different!
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way
But did you in 1914 or so?

(has anyone
Post by Jack Bohn
transposed The Music Man to sf? "Welcome out Io way, now go home...")
Our capital is Clombus, Hiyo; two syllbols is enough for any word, more
would be ostentatious.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jack Bohn
2019-05-24 01:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the  
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814!
--
-Jack
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-24 03:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different!
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814!
What did the people living there in 1614 call it?
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Jack Bohn
2019-05-24 04:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like you.  I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814! 
What did the people living there in 1614 call it? 
Those living along [a stretch of] the River called *it* something close enough to "Ohio" that it was written down that way when writing came along. Up in my neck of the woods, well, it was a neck of the Great Black Swamp, their words for that area were probably unprintable!
--
-Jack
Kevrob
2019-05-24 04:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the  
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.

* Spuds?

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_album.html

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2019-05-24 11:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the  
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_album.html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-05-24 17:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Oklahoma State? Oregon State? :)

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-24 18:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Oklahoma State? Oregon State? :)
Oz State University.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
J. Clarke
2019-05-24 21:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Oklahoma State? Oregon State? :)
THE Ohio State University (there can be only one, or so it says on the
label).
Kevrob
2019-05-24 22:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Oklahoma State? Oregon State? :)
THE Ohio State University (there can be only one, or so it says on the
label).*
The _older_ Ohio University is also a state university.
It doesn't insist on the definite article, though.

* Ohio Agricultural and Mechanical College, as was.

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2019-05-24 22:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Oklahoma State? Oregon State? :)
THE Ohio State University (there can be only one, or so it says on the
label).*
The _older_ Ohio University is also a state university.
It doesn't insist on the definite article, though.
* Ohio Agricultural and Mechanical College, as was.
That the definite article is undeserved was (and probably still is)
kind of a running joke among OSU students and alumni.
Robert Woodward
2019-05-24 17:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the  
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state
Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like
you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so
back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_album
.html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
But they have a marching band that makes a big production out of writing
"Ohio" and dotting the "i".
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Kevrob
2019-05-24 17:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the  
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state
Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like
you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so
back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_album
.html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
But they have a marching band that makes a big production out of writing
"Ohio" and dotting the "i".
It's so kind of them to spell out the name of their senior
institution in Athens. :)

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-24 18:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: 
 
In article
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,  
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of
"Ohio in the  
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
19-oughts."  
 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.  
 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different! 
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state
Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like
you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so
back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_album
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
.html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
But they have a marching band that makes a big production out of writing
"Ohio" and dotting the "i".
It's so kind of them to spell out the name of their senior
institution in Athens. :)
Athens, Georgia, or Athens, Greece?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Woodward
2019-05-25 04:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
In article
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:A
A
In article
Post by Jack Bohn
A A
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and
Rome,A A
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. A There is no genre of
"Ohio in theA A
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
19-oughts."A A
A
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A A realA A
difference, but a very small one.A A
A
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely
different!A
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-wayA
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or state
Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from California like
you. I'm now going to insist everything is as I've known it forever, so
back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_debut_albu
m
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
.html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
But they have a marching band that makes a big production out of writing
"Ohio" and dotting the "i".
It's so kind of them to spell out the name of their senior
institution in Athens. :)
Athens, Georgia, or Athens, Greece?
Athens, Ohio (home of Ohio University which, IIRC, is the oldest USA
institution of higher learning west of the Appalachians).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Cryptoengineer
2019-05-24 17:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by Jack Bohn
In article
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:   
In article
Post by Jack Bohn
  
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and
Rome,   Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre
of "Ohio in the   19-oughts."    
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real  
difference, but a very small one.    
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely
different!  For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way 
But did you in 1914 or so?
Sorry I was unclear, I'm a Buckeye, not a Hawkeye, we pronounce or
state Hiya, or carefully as O-Hi-O if talking to a ferner from
California like you. I'm now going to insist everything is as
I've known it forever, so back to 1914, and even 1814!
I used to hear "uh-hi-uh" from college classmates who came
from places like Canton. Spuds* from Cleveland and Akron
wouldn't say that, though.
* Spuds?
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2018/08/devo_released_its_deb
ut_album .html
I went to OSU for two years and never heard "Hiya" unless it was
followed by "howyadoin"?
But they have a marching band that makes a big production out of
writing "Ohio" and dotting the "i".
Yes indeed, they do (SFW):



pt
Richard Hershberger
2019-05-24 15:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
 
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, 
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the 
19-oughts." 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real 
difference, but a very small one. 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different!
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way
But did you in 1914 or so?
In unrelated news, in 1914 "Frisco" was a perfectly cromulent local nickname for San Francisco. It was later that the denizens of the city decided it was unforgivable.

Richard R. Hershberger
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-24 18:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
 
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, 
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the 
19-oughts." 
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa.  A real 
difference, but a very small one. 
Written like a Californian! They're... they're completely different!
For one thing, we don't pronounce our state I-O-way
But did you in 1914 or so?
In unrelated news, in 1914 "Frisco" was a perfectly cromulent local
nickname for San Francisco. It was later that the denizens of the city
decided it was unforgivable.
I'm not going to try to research it, but now you've got me
wondering whether it was Herb Caen who decided the nickname was
unforgivable.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
t***@gmail.com
2019-05-24 18:15:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way wrong.
Iowa and Ohio are very different.

Tony
Scott Lurndal
2019-05-24 19:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way wrong.
Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-24 20:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way wrong.
Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.

Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Scott Lurndal
2019-05-24 22:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way wrong.
Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
One's the hawkeye state, the other is the buckeye state. One is
west of the mighty muddy, one is east of it. One is known for
the magnitude of its annual corn (maize) harvest, the other is known for
a basketball team that got lucky in 2016.
Titus G
2019-05-25 00:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."
Well, there's _The Music Man_, but that's in Iowa. A real
difference, but a very small one.
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way wrong.
Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
One's the hawkeye state, the other is the buckeye state. One is
west of the mighty muddy, one is east of it. One is known for
the magnitude of its annual corn (maize) harvest, the other is known for
a basketball team that got lucky in 2016.
.
Without looking at a map, I am none the wiser. Did Neil Young write
about Iowa?
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-25 00:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
One's the hawkeye state, the other is the buckeye state.
Googling "hawkeye" gave me lots of references to Marvel Comics.
Googling "hawkeye state" yielded, "Two Iowa promoters from
Burlington are believed to have popularized the name," without
defining what a hawkeye is, if not part of a hawk.

Now, we have buckeyes in California, unless you're talking about
a different species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_californica

The local Native Americans would eat the nuts when they had to
(as, when acorns were scarce), but it had to be boiled and
leached to get rid of toxins. The local-to-the-Bay_Area tribe,
the Ohlone, used to have a buckeye festival every fall, when they
would leach the nuts and grind the results. They did this every
year whether the acorns failed or not, so they wouldn't forget
*how to.*
Post by Scott Lurndal
One is
west of the mighty muddy, one is east of it.
The few bits of terrain I saw on both sides of the river, when we
saw it in 1976, looked remarkably similar.
Post by Scott Lurndal
One is known for
the magnitude of its annual corn (maize) harvest, the other is known for
a basketball team that got lucky in 2016.
Yes, but which is which?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2019-05-25 03:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
One's the hawkeye state, the other is the buckeye state.
Googling "hawkeye" gave me lots of references to Marvel Comics.
Googling "hawkeye state" yielded, "Two Iowa promoters from
Burlington are believed to have popularized the name," without
defining what a hawkeye is, if not part of a hawk.
"Hawkeye" is generally an indicator of extraordinary visual acuity. I
don't know if it's use in James Fenimore Cooper's _Leatherstocking
Tales_ was original or if it just reflected existing common usage.
However that usage was still at least somewhat commonplace in the
'50s--my mother had a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye camera.

Wiki suggests that the use in Iowa was related to a friendship between
the aforementioned two promoters and one Chief Black Hawk. This is
not entirely implausible in that around that time a book which
purported to be his autobiography was apparently wildly popular--this
is said to be the first autobiography of a Native American to be
published. How they got from Black Hawk to Hawkeye is not
clear--purhaps they threw in a bit of Cooper as well, or perhaps Black
Hawk was noted for sharp vision.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Now, we have buckeyes in California, unless you're talking about
a different species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_californica
The local Native Americans would eat the nuts when they had to
(as, when acorns were scarce), but it had to be boiled and
leached to get rid of toxins. The local-to-the-Bay_Area tribe,
the Ohlone, used to have a buckeye festival every fall, when they
would leach the nuts and grind the results. They did this every
year whether the acorns failed or not, so they wouldn't forget
*how to.*
Post by Scott Lurndal
One is
west of the mighty muddy, one is east of it.
The few bits of terrain I saw on both sides of the river, when we
saw it in 1976, looked remarkably similar.
Post by Scott Lurndal
One is known for
the magnitude of its annual corn (maize) harvest, the other is known for
a basketball team that got lucky in 2016.
Yes, but which is which?
Kevrob
2019-05-25 04:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
One's the hawkeye state, the other is the buckeye state.
Googling "hawkeye" gave me lots of references to Marvel Comics.
Googling "hawkeye state" yielded, "Two Iowa promoters from
Burlington are believed to have popularized the name," without
defining what a hawkeye is, if not part of a hawk.
Marvel's "Hawkeye the Marksman," Clint Barton, was given an Iowa
birthplace years after his debut, by, IMS, Roy Thomas. Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo. Roy
the Boy* even had Clint commenting favorably while he and several
other Assemblers relaxed between missions at Avengers Mansion by
watching the BBC "Last of The Mohicans" series aired by PBS.
(1972, part of Masterpiece Theatre.)

Bumpo was a crack shot with the long rifle, but he probably knew
his way around a bow.

*I no longer own the issue. It could have been published months
after the final episode aired on PBS.

Kevin R
David Goldfarb
2019-05-30 03:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
--
David Goldfarb |"For some reason, most of my clearest memories
***@gmail.com |from my youth are of various traumas."
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- James Nicoll
Kevrob
2019-05-30 12:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.

Kevin R
Juho Julkunen
2019-05-30 15:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
--
Juho Julkunen
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-30 16:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
Well, but it may have been more acceptable in the early
nineteenth century (and set in the early eighteenth century) than
they are now.

I haven't read Cooper, but ISTR reading that the worst thing
about his *plotting*, as distinguished from his nomenclature, is
his too-frequent use of the snap of a stepped-upon twig as a
signal for action.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Juho Julkunen
2019-05-30 23:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
Well, but it may have been more acceptable in the early
nineteenth century (and set in the early eighteenth century) than
they are now.
I haven't read Cooper, but ISTR reading that the worst thing
about his *plotting*, as distinguished from his nomenclature, is
his too-frequent use of the snap of a stepped-upon twig as a
signal for action.
I believe Mark Twain touched upon that, too, in his essay "Fenimore
Cooper's Literary Offenses."
--
Juho Julkunen
D B Davis
2019-06-05 04:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
Well, but it may have been more acceptable in the early
nineteenth century (and set in the early eighteenth century) than
they are now.
I haven't read Cooper, but ISTR reading that the worst thing
about his *plotting*, as distinguished from his nomenclature, is
his too-frequent use of the snap of a stepped-upon twig as a
signal for action.
I believe Mark Twain touched upon that, too, in his essay "Fenimore
Cooper's Literary Offenses."
_Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?_ (Albee) says a thing or two about
finger & dragon snaps.

George (Flourishing the flowers). SNAP WENT THE DRAGONS!! (Nick and
Martha laugh weakly) Hunh? Here we go round the mulberry bush,
Hunh?
Nick (Tenderly, to Martha). Thank you.
Martha. Skip it.
George (Loud). I said, here we go round the mulberry bush!
Martha (Impatiently). Yeah, yeah, we know; snap go the dragons.
George (Taking a snapdragon, throwing it, spear-like, stem-first
at Martha). SNAP!
Martha. Don't, George!
Nick. Don't do that.
George. Shut up, stud.
Nick. I'm not a stud.
George (Throws one at Nick). SNAP! Then you're a houseboy. Which is
it? Which are you? Hunh? Make up your mind. Either way. ...
(Throws another at him) SNAP! ... you disgust me.
Martha. Does it matter to you, George?
George (Throws one at her). SNAP! No, actually it doesn't. Either
... way I've had it.
Martha. Stop throwing those damn things at me!
George. Either way. (Throws another at her.) SNAP!
Nick (To Martha). Do you want me to ... do something to him?
Martha. You leave him alone!
George. If you're a houseboy, baby, you can pick up after me; if
you're a stud, you can go protect your plow.



Thank you,
--
Don
Default User
2019-07-11 18:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I haven't read Cooper, but ISTR reading that the worst thing
about his *plotting*, as distinguished from his nomenclature, is
his too-frequent use of the snap of a stepped-upon twig as a
signal for action.
I believe Mark Twain touched upon that, too, in his essay "Fenimore
Cooper's Literary Offenses."
Twain didn't really "touch upon" anything in that essay. "Hammer upon", frequently.


Brian
Moriarty
2019-05-30 21:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
It's no worse than Martin Chuzzlewit, Ebeneezer Scrooge or Philip Pirrip. And now I've written that I wonder if Cooper was influenced by Dickens?

-Moriarty
Juho Julkunen
2019-06-01 15:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
It's no worse than Martin Chuzzlewit, Ebeneezer Scrooge or Philip Pirrip. And now I've written that I wonder if Cooper was influenced by Dickens?
Ebenezer Scrooge and Philip Pirrip are perfectly good names, well
suited to purpose.

Perhaps the same is true of Chuzzlewit; I have not read about his
adventures.
--
Juho Julkunen
J. Clarke
2019-06-01 16:54:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:36:46 +0300, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Moriarty
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Goldfarb
Post by Kevrob
Stan Lee
took the archer's nom de guerre from Cooper's Natty Bumpo.
Correcting to be polite: Bumppo.
Thank you. Brain and/or fingers let me down.
I feel the fault lies with Mr. Cooper for thinking that Natty Bumppo is
an acceptable name for a protagonist.
It's no worse than Martin Chuzzlewit, Ebeneezer Scrooge or Philip Pirrip. And now I've written that I wonder if Cooper was influenced by Dickens?
Ebenezer Scrooge and Philip Pirrip are perfectly good names, well
suited to purpose.
Perhaps the same is true of Chuzzlewit; I have not read about his
adventures.
A little research suggests that there are several surnames that
approximate "Bumppo". "Bumpus" seems the most common.
David DeLaney
2019-05-25 14:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.

Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.

The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.

Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.

Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.

Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.

We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.

Dave, both are considered flyover states by coastal folks
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-25 18:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.
Ah. I wonder how they will be affected when California's goes to
Mardh?
Post by David DeLaney
Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.
Something that I would not notice even if I were standing among
them.
Post by David DeLaney
The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.
Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.
Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.
Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.
We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.
Okay, most of those are differences I would not notice, but I'll
take your word for them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
D B Davis
2019-05-28 13:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.
Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.
The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.
Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.
Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.
Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.
We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.
Dave, both are considered flyover states by coastal folks
When James "Smiling Cobra" Aubrey said "The American public is something
I fly over." he may have been talking about Ohio, which is a popular
culture bellwether. Those who would be President need Ohio, as does any
other product that wants to be a hit.
It's my understanding that George Washington and about two thirds of
the founding fathers were heavily invested in Ohio real estate. After
King George III issued the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it meant war.
Ohio's also the home of the Old Right (Taft /not/ Eisenhower), the
Wright Brothers, the Goodyear Tire company, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
immortalized in song, and Holy Toledo.
One more thing. Iowa has the Iowa River and Ohio has the Ohio River.

ObSF: The late Harlan Ellison hailed from Ohio.



Thank you,
--
Don
Robert Woodward
2019-05-28 17:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.
Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.
The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.
Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.
Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.
Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.
We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.
Dave, both are considered flyover states by coastal folks
When James "Smiling Cobra" Aubrey said "The American public is something
I fly over." he may have been talking about Ohio, which is a popular
culture bellwether. Those who would be President need Ohio, as does any
other product that wants to be a hit.
Only Republicans need to carry Ohio to become President. Democrats have
been elected President without carrying Ohio (however, the last was
Kennedy in 1960).
Post by D B Davis
It's my understanding that George Washington and about two thirds of
the founding fathers were heavily invested in Ohio real estate. After
King George III issued the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it meant war.
Ohio's also the home of the Old Right (Taft /not/ Eisenhower), the
Wright Brothers, the Goodyear Tire company, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
immortalized in song, and Holy Toledo.
One more thing. Iowa has the Iowa River and Ohio has the Ohio River.
Actually, Ohio doesn't have the Ohio River. The state's southern
boundary is the north bank of the Ohio River.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Kevrob
2019-05-28 17:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by D B Davis
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.
Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.
The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.
Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.
Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.
Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.
We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.
Dave, both are considered flyover states by coastal folks
When James "Smiling Cobra" Aubrey said "The American public is something
I fly over." he may have been talking about Ohio, which is a popular
culture bellwether. Those who would be President need Ohio, as does any
other product that wants to be a hit.
Only Republicans need to carry Ohio to become President. Democrats have
been elected President without carrying Ohio (however, the last was
Kennedy in 1960).
Post by D B Davis
It's my understanding that George Washington and about two thirds of
the founding fathers were heavily invested in Ohio real estate. After
King George III issued the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it meant war.
Ohio's also the home of the Old Right (Taft /not/ Eisenhower), the
Wright Brothers, the Goodyear Tire company, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
immortalized in song, and Holy Toledo.
One more thing. Iowa has the Iowa River and Ohio has the Ohio River.
Actually, Ohio doesn't have the Ohio River. The state's southern
boundary is the north bank of the Ohio River.
Not the bank, but the low-waterline on the northern side.
It's only 100-500 feet, but it's something.


https://www.nytimes.com/1981/10/21/us/kentucky-indiana-and-ohio-end-river-boundary-dispute.html

Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-05-28 17:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Presidential primaries converge on the former far earlier than on the latter.
Different varieties of cows and corn cover each.
The Big River next to Iowa runs down its east and west side, whereas Ohio's
runs backwards along its south.
Ohio has a North Shore and is next to a Great Lake and original colonies; Iowa
is landlocked and at the edge of the West.
Ohio has or abuts mountains (the Appalachians); not Iowa.
Ohio has nearly four times as many people as Iowa, and correspondingly more
vageuly-rememberable cities for folks not from there.
We had to buy Iowa. We acquired Ohio by exploring westward over it, basically.
Dave, both are considered flyover states by coastal folks
When James "Smiling Cobra" Aubrey said....
Jack Kirby "borrowed" that nickname for the head of
"Galaxy Broadcasting," which took over The Daily Planet
in SUPERMAN in the early 70s.

https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/365fourth/2010/10/04/day-three-morgan-edge-galaxy-broadcasting/
.................................."The American public is something
I fly over." he may have been talking about Ohio, which is a popular
culture bellwether. Those who would be President need Ohio, as does any
other product that wants to be a hit.
It's my understanding that George Washington and about two thirds of
the founding fathers were heavily invested in Ohio real estate. After
King George III issued the Royal Proclamation of 1763 it meant war.
Ohio's also the home of the Old Right (Taft /not/ Eisenhower), the
Wright Brothers, the Goodyear Tire company, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
immortalized in song, and Holy Toledo.
One more thing. Iowa has the Iowa River and Ohio has the Ohio River.
ObSF: The late Harlan Ellison hailed from Ohio.
Siegel and Shuster were from Cleveland, Joe by way of Toronto.

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Joy Beeson
2019-05-29 01:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
One more thing. Iowa has the Iowa River and Ohio has the Ohio River.
It also has a small loop of the Wabash.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Joe Bernstein
2019-07-09 00:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by t***@gmail.com
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way
wrong. Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Much to my surprise, Iowa was 64% urban in 2010, much less rural than
I thought it was. Much to my surprise, Ohio was 78% urban in 2010,
much less urban than I thought it was.

Think of Ohio, think of cities - Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus,
Toledo, Akron, Dayton, you name it. Youngstown (a smaller city)
became a symbol of the Rust Belt. Look up J. Random City named
as the home of some factory that made something you're looking at,
and the odds are pretty good that that city you've never heard of
is in Ohio. Many states have just one big city, often awkwardly
placed vis-a-vis the rest of the state - New York City, Boston,
Chicago, Milwaukee, Seattle, Portland, you get the idea. Ohio is
actually much more like California (or, say, New Jersey or
Pennsylvania) than most states, because it's multipolar.

Think of Iowa, think of cornfields. Iowa does actually have cities,
but the odds that anyone in them made that thing you're looking at
are pretty low. (OK, for some people, think of Iowa, think of
writers' workshops - but that's actually a sign in itself. Ames,
Iowa is on the map because its university has a writers' workshop.
If a famous writers' workshop somehow landed in Ohio, it wouldn't be
the Ohio Writers' Workshop, it'd be the Toledo Writers' Workshop or
the Lima Writers' Workshop or whatever.) Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
Des Moines is thrice the size of the next biggest city (though it
isn't on the edge of the state).

Iowa has come down to being just 91% white. Ohio, 83%. Granted this
doesn't look like a huge difference, but, well, it is. Black people
are numerous enough in Ohio to invite voter suppression; not so much
in Iowa. Iowa is actually bigger, physically, than Ohio, but Ohio
had 11 1/2 million people in 2010, Iowa 3 million.

Ohio started out as forest, swamp and mountains, in the former two
like Michigan, Indiana and Wisconsin. Iowa started out as tallgrass
prairie, like Illinois, Minnesota and Missouri.

Ohio is where the lake lit on fire. Iowa is where <The Music Man> is
set. In S. M. Stirling's Change series, Iowa becomes a mighty realm
because its rural areas come through so well. Ohio becomes a Death
Zone because it's so full of cities.

Confusing Iowa with Ohio is kind of like, um, confusing Wyoming with
Washington, or San Bernardino with LA, only somewhat less extreme.

Joe Bernstein
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
J. Clarke
2019-07-09 02:52:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 00:38:50 -0000 (UTC), Joe Bernstein
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by t***@gmail.com
Unless you're talking about "4 letters, 3 syllables", that's way way
wrong. Iowa and Ohio are very different.
Not, apparently, to anyone west of the rockies.....
For those of us west of the Rockies, the difference is not
apparent from where we stand.
Educate me: what are some of the significant differences between
Iowa and Ohio?
Much to my surprise, Iowa was 64% urban in 2010, much less rural than
I thought it was. Much to my surprise, Ohio was 78% urban in 2010,
much less urban than I thought it was.
Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
??? You might want to google "Chicago".
Joe Bernstein
2019-07-09 19:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 00:38:50 -0000 (UTC), Joe Bernstein
Post by Joe Bernstein
Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
??? You might want to google "Chicago".
I wrote a reply explaining how you misunderstood my post, possibly
because of an ill-advisedly added parenthesis in the paragraph you
quoted from. But then I decided to run some numbers, and that showed
that what I'd said was problematic factually. (And not because I'm
unaware of the existence of Chicago. I first posted to this group
while living in Chicago. Sheesh.)

I'll spend some of today running more numbers before posting a
correction, but in a nutshell, in the quotation, Iowa and Wisconsin
are both more like Ohio, by the metric I chose to check this, than
the latter is like California, while none of these states is anything
like Minnesota or Illinois.

-- JLB
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-09 19:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 00:38:50 -0000 (UTC), Joe Bernstein
Post by Joe Bernstein
Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
??? You might want to google "Chicago".
I wrote a reply explaining how you misunderstood my post, possibly
because of an ill-advisedly added parenthesis in the paragraph you
quoted from. But then I decided to run some numbers, and that showed
that what I'd said was problematic factually. (And not because I'm
unaware of the existence of Chicago. I first posted to this group
while living in Chicago. Sheesh.)
I'll spend some of today running more numbers before posting a
correction, but in a nutshell, in the quotation, Iowa and Wisconsin
are both more like Ohio, by the metric I chose to check this, than
the latter is like California, while none of these states is anything
like Minnesota or Illinois.
-- JLB
"if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they
taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does."
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David DeLaney
2019-07-10 01:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Think of Iowa, think of cornfields. Iowa does actually have cities,
but the odds that anyone in them made that thing you're looking at
are pretty low. (OK, for some people, think of Iowa, think of
writers' workshops - but that's actually a sign in itself. Ames,
Iowa is on the map because its university has a writers' workshop.
If a famous writers' workshop somehow landed in Ohio, it wouldn't be
the Ohio Writers' Workshop, it'd be the Toledo Writers' Workshop or
the Lima Writers' Workshop or whatever.) Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
Des Moines is thrice the size of the next biggest city (though it
isn't on the edge of the state).
I actually know songs about Iowa, by Uncle Bonsai:
<
>, I Awoke In Iowa,
and its followup
<
>, the Iowa Apology Song.

(Safe for work and/or Dorothy, unlike their _Penis Envy_, which got them into
a Supreme Court decision...)
Post by Joe Bernstein
Ohio is where the lake lit on fire.
River. Lake Erie hasn't caught as far as I know, but the Cuyahoga River has, at
LEAST twice. More apparently than any other non-minor river.

For that and other Cleveland facts, see
<
>, the Hastily Made Cleveland
Tourism Video ()2nd attempt)...

Dave, who is from East Cleveland. and not skeered. much.
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Mike Spencer
2019-07-10 04:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Think of Iowa, think of cornfields. Iowa does actually have cities,
but the odds that anyone in them made that thing you're looking at
are pretty low. (OK, for some people, think of Iowa, think of
writers' workshops - but that's actually a sign in itself. Ames,
Iowa is on the map because its university has a writers' workshop.
If a famous writers' workshop somehow landed in Ohio, it wouldn't be
the Ohio Writers' Workshop, it'd be the Toledo Writers' Workshop or
the Lima Writers' Workshop or whatever.) Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
Des Moines is thrice the size of the next biggest city (though it
isn't on the edge of the state).
John V. Atanasoff was from, worked in, Ames, Iowa.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Scott Lurndal
2019-07-10 13:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Joe Bernstein
Think of Iowa, think of cornfields. Iowa does actually have cities,
but the odds that anyone in them made that thing you're looking at
are pretty low. (OK, for some people, think of Iowa, think of
writers' workshops - but that's actually a sign in itself. Ames,
Iowa is on the map because its university has a writers' workshop.
If a famous writers' workshop somehow landed in Ohio, it wouldn't be
the Ohio Writers' Workshop, it'd be the Toledo Writers' Workshop or
the Lima Writers' Workshop or whatever.) Iowa is like its neighbours
Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and unlike California and Ohio;
Des Moines is thrice the size of the next biggest city (though it
isn't on the edge of the state).
John V. Atanasoff was from, worked in, Ames, Iowa.
And he invented the electronic digital computer in the 1930's. I took
Dr. Atanasoff out to dinner one night back in 1981 after he presented to
the Computer Science club in Ames.

He spoke of inventing "memory refresh", which he called 'jogging' for his
capacitive drum memory. His later interests were in natural language
processing.
Robert Carnegie
2019-05-24 08:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
One other helpful feature of explainxkcd.com is crosslinks to comics on similar thoughts.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2152:_Westerns
Is about Westerns as a genre lasting longer than the Wild West period. There's a link to a post about the question whether the length of all the movies about World War II adds up to more time than the war years. This can be extended up and down. The Grandeur That Was Rome has been talked about since folks realized Rome was grander than what was around them. The Kennedy assassination footage takes longer to view than the event; documentaries and docudramas stretches the definition: if they cover preparations and root causes, shouldn't our measure of the Real Time of the event, too?
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the 19-oughts." Are there any future histories where the timeline is marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
--
-Jack
As opposed to _Interesting Times_ (Terry Pratchett)...

His Discworld doesn't quite have a timeline; on the
contrary, time is abused and borrowed and mutilated
until in _Night Watch_, city policeman Sam Vimes
ends up being the wise mentor of his younger self,
and the History Monks have to get involved.

Not-meanwhile (obviously), in his _Lords and Ladies_,
tiny kingdom Lancre is saved partly by its queen being
inspired by the memory of an entirely fictitious
warlike predecessor, whose inventor had thoughtfully
manufactured the lady's battle armour as well -
believing the actual history to be overall a bit
unsatisfactory.
David Johnston
2019-05-24 15:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
One other helpful feature of explainxkcd.com is crosslinks to comics on similar thoughts.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2152:_Westerns
Is about Westerns as a genre lasting longer than the Wild West period. There's a link to a post about the question whether the length of all the movies about World War II adds up to more time than the war years. This can be extended up and down. The Grandeur That Was Rome has been talked about since folks realized Rome was grander than what was around them. The Kennedy assassination footage takes longer to view than the event; documentaries and docudramas stretches the definition: if they cover preparations and root causes, shouldn't our measure of the Real Time of the event, too?
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome, Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the 19-oughts." Are there any future histories where the timeline is marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
The problem with periods of history too dull to talk about is that
people don't talk about them. Simak tends to have a lot of history
that's too dull to talk about. We just check in after humanity has
literally died of boredom. Star Trek the Next Generation starts right
after such a period, decades in which nothing interesting happened and
humanity has become so insufferably smug about how they've solved all
the problems and eliminated all danger that's it's a point of
ideological faith that the Federation doesn't have or need a military
and to prove it they've loaded their most heavily armed ship with a
bunch of civilian passengers, including very young children.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
David Johnston
2019-05-24 18:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Jack Bohn
One other helpful feature of explainxkcd.com is crosslinks to comics on similar thoughts.
  https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2152:_Westerns
Is about Westerns as a genre lasting longer than the Wild West
period.  There's a link to a post about the question whether the
length of all the movies about World War II adds up to more time than
the war years.  This can be extended up and down.  The Grandeur That
Was Rome has been talked about since folks realized Rome was grander
than what was around them.  The Kennedy assassination footage takes
longer to view than the event; documentaries and docudramas stretches
the definition: if they cover preparations and root causes, shouldn't
our measure of the Real Time of the event, too?
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII.  There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts."  Are there any future histories where the timeline is
marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
The problem with periods of history too dull to talk about is that
people don't talk about them.  Simak tends to have a lot of history
that's too dull to talk about.  We just check in after humanity has
literally died of boredom.  Star Trek the Next Generation starts right
after such a period, decades in which nothing interesting happened and
humanity has become so insufferably smug about how they've solved all
the problems and eliminated all danger that's it's a point of
ideological faith that the Federation doesn't have or need a military
and to prove it they've loaded their most heavily armed ship with a
bunch of civilian passengers, including very young children.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Now that I think about it, The End of Eternity is all about an
organization dedicated to making history too dull to talk about.
Jack Bohn
2019-05-24 23:52:46 UTC
Permalink
I went up to Deep Stash for my _Tales of Known Space_ where the repurposed "Safe at Any Speed" suggests the Teela Brown gene will make further stories difficult.

Ballantine/Del Rey dd a neat thing with a timeline in their series books, balancing the broad sweep of time vs. clumps of character-based stories. _The Best of Cordwainer Smith_, has one, too, and at least one other I don't recall and didn't have time to dig for. The Smith shows a two thousand year gap in stories while stabilizing the utopia, but a story or two could have fallen in that gap if he'd written more. Niven had the whole of the 2500s empty of stories of the Man-Kzin Wars because he didn't feel qualified to say more than "They always attacked before they were ready."
--
-Jack
Joe Bernstein
2019-07-12 01:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
One other helpful feature of explainxkcd.com is crosslinks to comics on similar thoughts.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2152:_Westerns
Is about Westerns as a genre lasting longer than the Wild West period.
There's a link to a post about the question whether the length of all
the movies about World War II adds up to more time than the war years.
This can be extended up and down. The Grandeur That Was Rome has
been talked about since folks realized Rome was grander than what was
around them. The Kennedy assassination footage takes longer to view
if they cover preparations and root causes, shouldn't our measure of
the Real Time of the event, too?
But back to the poplit Four Ages of Man: Ancient Egypt and Rome,
Camelot, the Wild West, and WWII. There is no genre of "Ohio in the
19-oughts." Are there any future histories where the timeline is
marked, or characters complain about eras too dull to talk about?
"May you live in interesting times." [1]

I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift, even if you personally pretty much demanded that
thread drift in later posts. So here's my try at your question.

First a bit of vocabulary. We need a generic noun for things like
"Ohio in the 19-oughts" [2] or "Athens during the Peloponnesian War".
I don't know of one, so I'm using "placetime" in this post, hoping to
be informed of a better term.

So here's how I understand your post: Certain placetimes get much
more than their fair share of attention. So other placetimes get
much *less* than their share. And you're asking about future
histories that either mark such times in their chronologies, or
have characters talk about them, which could range from:

"And during the 28th century..."
"Oh, please, not the 28th century again! Honestly, couldn't
you at least study something exciting, like the Buddhist War?"

to

"So people think of the 28th century as a boring time when the
top goings-on involved grass growing. But I'm telling you, if you
study those records right, there's a treasure map buried in them..."

These snatches of dialogue represent three purposes I can think of,
why an author would want her characters to talk about a placetime as
boring:

1. To add time depth. The first snatch contrasts two periods that
haven't happened yet. But there are easier and more useful ways
to add time depth.

2. To characterise. The first snatch makes the second speaker
look young or callow, or the first look old or geekish.

3. To fake you out. The second snatch makes this explicit, but if
I were going to write a novel that revolved around the absolutely
epochal secret deeds determining all future history that were done
in Ohio in the 19-oughts (wait, didn't Michael Flynn already write
that?), I would certainly use the first snatch instead.

Anyway, neither snatch is all that memorable in its own right, so I'm
not surprised nobody's given you actual examples. However, I've read
a bunch of future-set novels that one way or another reflect on what
makes a placetime boring or interesting, or historical or unworthy of
history - usually with the implication that the placetime *within
which the novel is set* is boring and unworthy by some standard, with
which the novel may agree or disagree. (As opposed to your wish that
the boring placetimes be in the novel's past.)

<Watch the North Wind Rise> = <Seven Days in New Crete>, Robert
Graves, 1949
<Always Coming Home>, Ursula Le Guin, 1985
<Child of Fortune>, Norman Spinrad, 1985
<Pacific Edge>, Kim Stanley Robinson, 1990
and whatever I've read of Jack McDevitt's Alex Benedict series.

Before I remembered these I remembered my go-to books for "Boring?
Ha!", which are all by women, and fantasy, past-set, or both:

<Greenwillow>, B. J. Chute, 1956
<Malafrena>, Ursula Le Guin, 1979
the historicals of Gillian Bradshaw, most of which focus on less
prominent placetimes; examples with fantasy elements, from most to
least of those, are:
<The Wolf Hunt>, 2001 (Brittany, 12th century AD)
<Horses of Heaven>, 1991 (Ferghana valley, 2nd century BC)
<Island of Ghosts>, 1998 (northern England, 2nd century AD)
<Lifelode>, Jo Walton, 2009

I suppose A. S. Byatt's <Possession>, 1990, bears on this in its own
way too. So, differently, does Sean Stewart's <Nobody's Son>, 1993.

I also remembered my own belief, which is that no matter how boring
everyone thinks history is, in reality *human history properly known
and understood is intrinsically interesting*. In this regard I'm
like the diehard Marxist who insists that none of the historical
Communist dictatorships was an adequate test of Marxist theory. I'm
pretty sure nobody here wants me to go into detail about this. But
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.

Joe Bernstein

[1] According to
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_times>
this ancient Chinese curse was actually coined by some member or
other of the British Chamberlain family - yes, that one - in the
early 20th century.

[2] You've been informed of some fiction set in Ohio in the 19-oughts,
but I wonder whether there is in fact a genre normatively set there.
Seems to me mainstream fiction of that decade was probably mostly
present-set, as usual, and there may have been a genre within that
which was typically set in anonymous Midwestern towns.
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
Jack Bohn
2019-07-13 11:16:48 UTC
Permalink
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to 
post thread drift, even if you personally pretty much demanded that 
thread drift in later posts.
It was an idle unfinished thought, so I am willing to follow wherever it goes (along the Ohio-Iowa-Idaho-Hawai'i Highway, as the song says). I'm visiting my brother's family, and from here I can see one of his old high school books, which reminds me that Heinrich Schliemann dug through like seven historical sites because they weren't THE Troy, which moderns look at in horror. (Do we still, or has the pendulum swung back? I don't keep up.)
--
-Jack
David DeLaney
2019-07-16 12:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift,
This is Usenet. It's practically required. I've developed my skill at it
considerably since September, 1993.
Post by Joe Bernstein
First a bit of vocabulary. We need a generic noun for things like
"Ohio in the 19-oughts" [2] or "Athens during the Peloponnesian War".
this was a star trek episode, i'm fairly sure.

also possibly at least three different xkcds, but that goes without saying.

obSF: The Phantom Tollbooth

there, i herd you liked thread drift so i put thread drift in yer thread drift
so you can thread drift while you thread drift. take off every zig!
Post by Joe Bernstein
And you're asking about future
histories that either mark such times in their chronologies, or
"And during the 28th century..."
"Oh, please, not the 28th century again! Honestly, couldn't
you at least study something exciting, like the Buddhist War?"
to
"So people think of the 28th century as a boring time when the
top goings-on involved grass growing. But I'm telling you, if you
study those records right, there's a treasure map buried in them..."
Someone recently pointed me to Jonathan Edelstein's excellent thread on a
setting he calls, accurately, "Ten quintillion AD", on alternatehistory.com -
it's hidden in the Alien Space Bats members-only forums, but it turns out that
memberizing oneself is relatively painless.

Anyway, he makes the point that if humanity survives, in some form, to that
point, where ALL the visible stars are dead and everything outside the local
cluster has receded beyond the cosmic event horizon [also there was no Big Rip
scenario, by necessity], that their history-of-stories will be rich and strange
beyond nearly anything we can imagine now, affecting language in deep ways.

And that there will be entire TRILLIONS of years of history that absolutely
nothing is known of, having left no track on the stories that passed through
them that's pinnable down to the period, and having taken place in an entirely
different set of star systems so physical evidence is currently unreachable.

Great swaths of which were certainly full of non-boringness, including various
times setting up a new star to live around, by colliding surviving brown dwarfs
and then moving humanity there lock, stock, and barrel ... but which have
disappeared into the absolutely ginormous depth of history at that point. Much
like we do not have detailed records of everything that happened during a
given span of three seconds on the morning of April 6th, 782 (old style)...

(I also note that, given the example of generic teenagers, what makes a
placetime boring or exciting usually depends highly on the viewer...)
Post by Joe Bernstein
I also remembered my own belief, which is that no matter how boring
everyone thinks history is, in reality *human history properly known
and understood is intrinsically interesting*.
I'll agree! If only I had time enough and world to study it all in...
Post by Joe Bernstein
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.
As did John Glenn and the first on-street stoplight (if I recall correctly).

Dave, 20th-century Ohio history, taken as a whole, involves more cows than many
folks are aware of
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
t***@gmail.com
2019-07-16 12:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift,
This is Usenet. It's practically required. I've developed my skill at it
considerably since September, 1993.
Yay! I popped on usenet some time in 1991 or 1992, but I heavily valued
lurking (and still kinda partial to it now.)

And now, some snippage ...
<snip>
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.
Indeed - Ohio typically claims 7 or 8 presidents, depending how one counts
the Harrisons (most places count one or the other, and a few count both).
Post by David DeLaney
As did John Glenn
and 20 other astronauts, including Armstrong and Lovell
Post by David DeLaney
and the first on-street stoplight (if I recall correctly).
Dave, 20th-century Ohio history, taken as a whole, involves more cows than many
folks are aware of
I recently learned a couple things about Ohio that surprised me:
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the early-to-mid 1930s it had
become the 3rd most populous state in the US, behind New York & Pennsylvania.
(Ohio is currently 7th.)

2) Ohio's current population density is 10th, just behind Pennsylvania and ahead of California.

Bonus fact (non-Ohio division):
Speaking of the Harrisons, here's a mind-boggling item I ran across recently:
John Tyler became the 10th US president (1841-1945) after Wm Henry Harrison passed
away in office. Two of Tylers grandsons are still alive today (or at least a few weeks ago,
when I read the article).

Tony
t***@gmail.com
2019-07-16 13:09:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift,
This is Usenet. It's practically required. I've developed my skill at it
considerably since September, 1993.
Yay! I popped on usenet some time in 1991 or 1992, but I heavily valued
lurking (and still kinda partial to it now.)
And now, some snippage ...
<snip>
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.
Indeed - Ohio typically claims 7 or 8 presidents, depending how one counts
the Harrisons (most places count one or the other, and a few count both).
Post by David DeLaney
As did John Glenn
and 20 other astronauts, including Armstrong and Lovell
Post by David DeLaney
and the first on-street stoplight (if I recall correctly).
Dave, 20th-century Ohio history, taken as a whole, involves more cows than many
folks are aware of
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the early-to-mid 1930s it had
become the 3rd most populous state in the US, behind New York & Pennsylvania.
(Ohio is currently 7th.)
AAAUUUUUGGGGHHHHH, stupid typo undercutting the point:
By the mid _1830s_ it had become the 3rd-most populous state. 1-8-3-0s.

Sheesh.
Tony
Post by t***@gmail.com
2) Ohio's current population density is 10th, just behind Pennsylvania and ahead of California.
John Tyler became the 10th US president (1841-1945) after Wm Henry Harrison passed
away in office. Two of Tylers grandsons are still alive today (or at least a few weeks ago,
when I read the article).
Tony
Robert Carnegie
2019-07-16 14:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift,
This is Usenet. It's practically required. I've developed my skill at it
considerably since September, 1993.
Yay! I popped on usenet some time in 1991 or 1992, but I heavily valued
lurking (and still kinda partial to it now.)
And now, some snippage ...
<snip>
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.
Indeed - Ohio typically claims 7 or 8 presidents, depending how one counts
the Harrisons (most places count one or the other, and a few count both).
Post by David DeLaney
As did John Glenn
and 20 other astronauts, including Armstrong and Lovell
Post by David DeLaney
and the first on-street stoplight (if I recall correctly).
Dave, 20th-century Ohio history, taken as a whole, involves more cows than many
folks are aware of
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the early-to-mid 1930s it had
become the 3rd most populous state in the US, behind New York & Pennsylvania.
(Ohio is currently 7th.)
By the mid _1830s_ it had become the 3rd-most populous state. 1-8-3-0s.
Sheesh.
Tony
What was Ohio before 1803? I presume you don't
stake out a vacant plot of land yay size and
declare it a state.
Kevrob
2019-07-16 14:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I've been feeling guilty about picking up this old thread only to
post thread drift,
This is Usenet. It's practically required. I've developed my skill at it
considerably since September, 1993.
Yay! I popped on usenet some time in 1991 or 1992, but I heavily valued
lurking (and still kinda partial to it now.)
And now, some snippage ...
<snip>
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
I'll still venture to point out that the US presidents at the start
and end of the 19-oughts both came from Ohio.
Indeed - Ohio typically claims 7 or 8 presidents, depending how one counts
the Harrisons (most places count one or the other, and a few count both).
Post by David DeLaney
As did John Glenn
and 20 other astronauts, including Armstrong and Lovell
Post by David DeLaney
and the first on-street stoplight (if I recall correctly).
Dave, 20th-century Ohio history, taken as a whole, involves more cows than many
folks are aware of
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the early-to-mid 1930s it had
become the 3rd most populous state in the US, behind New York & Pennsylvania.
(Ohio is currently 7th.)
By the mid _1830s_ it had become the 3rd-most populous state. 1-8-3-0s.
Sheesh.
Tony
What was Ohio before 1803? I presume you don't
stake out a vacant plot of land yay size and
declare it a state.
It was part of the "Northwest Territory" - land east of the Mississipi,
surrounding the Great Lakes that did not belong to other states.
Several Eastern states ceded their land claims dating to their colonial
charters in return for Federal assumption of state debts. The
southern boundary was, as it is for three of the states carved out
of it, the Ohio River.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territory

Kevin R
Joe Bernstein
2019-07-16 19:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the
early-to-mid 1930s it had become the 3rd most populous state in the
US, behind New York & Pennsylvania. (Ohio is currently 7th.)
By the mid _1830s_ it had become the 3rd-most populous state.
1-8-3-0s.
EW sv the censuses gives this:

1800 - Northwest Territory 45,365. This was an area bigger than
today's Ohio. Way down the rankings.
1810 - 230,760, 13th. Only Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and
Delaware, to this day population lightweights, were smaller, among
the states; no territory was bigger.
1820 - 581,434, 5th. Only New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and
North Carolina were bigger.
1830 - 937,903, 4th. Only New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia were
bigger.
1840 - 1,519,467, 3rd. Only New York and Pennsylvania were bigger.

The top three remained these, in this order, through 1880. In 1890
Illinois pulled into third, ahead of Ohio; the top four remained New
York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio through 1940. In 1950 California
shot from 5th to 2nd, so it was NY, CA, PA, IL, OH; same in 1960.
Texas had been just behind Ohio for most of the 20th century; in 1970
both it and California moved up: CA, NY, PA, TX, IL, OH. In 1980 PA
and TX traded places. In 1990 Florida moved up: CA, NY, TX, FL, PA,
IL, OH. In 2000 NY and TX traded places, as did PA and IL. So with
no further changes in 2010, we end up with CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH.

In Ms. Heydt's lifetime, then, Ohio has moved slowly down the ranking,
which I suppose helps excuse her confusion.
Post by Robert Carnegie
What was Ohio before 1803? I presume you don't
stake out a vacant plot of land yay size and
declare it a state.
English Wikipedia sv Ohio claims "Ohio's population numbered only
45,000 in December 1801", whereas "Under the Northwest Ordinance,
areas of the territory could be defined and admitted as states once
their population reached 60,000." It was assumed that Ohio was
growing so fast that it was worth starting the statehood process in
advance. The first white settlement there (no slavery allowed, so
presumably trivial numbers of black people) was founded in 1788.
Expansion into the land across the Appalachians had been one of the
issues in the Revolution, so I imagine people mostly didn't feel
secure moving in before then.

I'd thought Ohio was part of an area usually declared devoid of
Indians in the immediate past of white settlement, thanks to the
area's use as Iroquois hunting grounds. EW does mention the hunting
grounds but lists a bunch of Indian groups that were there anyway. I
generally get very suspicious when people declare large tracts of
good land vacant (don't even get me started about Korean archaeology
[1]), so I'm fine with this and just wondering whether Pennsylvania
and West Virginia, other areas that what I read back when may have
declared vacant, have seen similar revisionism.

Joe Bernstein

[1] So yeah, declaring land vacant is usually a prelude to colonial
rapacity, so suspicious as politically motivated, but actually, I
dislike such declarations not for that reason but because they
usually don't make much sense to me. For example, depopulation of
Korea has become the standard explanation for all current gaps of
known evidence in Korean archaeology. Two years ago, I counted six
such supposedly depopulated gaps in the record, one of which
coincided with a period when Korea is known from historical records
(Chinese) to have been populated. Two of my gaps are considered one
gap by archaeologists, who overlook a thriving population on Jeju
Island smack in the middle of the gap. You get the idea. Maybe
someone has burst this bubble since I looked at this, or maybe not.
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
David DeLaney
2019-07-18 04:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
1800 - Northwest Territory 45,365. This was an area bigger than
today's Ohio. Way down the rankings.
1810 - 230,760, 13th. Only Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and
Delaware, to this day population lightweights, were smaller, among
the states; no territory was bigger.
1820 - 581,434, 5th. Only New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and
North Carolina were bigger.
1830 - 937,903, 4th. Only New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia were bigger.
1840 - 1,519,467, 3rd. Only New York and Pennsylvania were bigger.
The top three remained these, in this order, through 1880. In 1890
Illinois pulled into third, ahead of Ohio; the top four remained New
York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio through 1940. In 1950 California
shot from 5th to 2nd, so it was NY, CA, PA, IL, OH; same in 1960.
Texas had been just behind Ohio for most of the 20th century; in 1970
both it and California moved up: CA, NY, PA, TX, IL, OH. In 1980 PA
and TX traded places. In 1990 Florida moved up: CA, NY, TX, FL, PA,
IL, OH. In 2000 NY and TX traded places, as did PA and IL. So with
no further changes in 2010, we end up with CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH.
... I think, somehow, we are misinterpreting the Subject: header here?

Dave, economist's intuition

ps: shoud multiple census be censa, censii, censuses, censopodes, or
centenarians?
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Jack Bohn
2019-07-18 06:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Joe Bernstein
1800 - Northwest Territory 45,365. This was an area bigger than
today's Ohio. Way down the rankings.
1810 - 230,760, 13th. Only Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and
Delaware, to this day population lightweights, were smaller, among
the states; no territory was bigger.
1820 - 581,434, 5th. Only New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and
North Carolina were bigger.
1830 - 937,903, 4th. Only New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia were bigger.
1840 - 1,519,467, 3rd. Only New York and Pennsylvania were bigger.
The top three remained these, in this order, through 1880. In 1890
Illinois pulled into third, ahead of Ohio; the top four remained New
York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio through 1940. In 1950 California
shot from 5th to 2nd, so it was NY, CA, PA, IL, OH; same in 1960.
Texas had been just behind Ohio for most of the 20th century; in 1970
both it and California moved up: CA, NY, PA, TX, IL, OH. In 1980 PA
and TX traded places. In 1990 Florida moved up: CA, NY, TX, FL, PA,
IL, OH. In 2000 NY and TX traded places, as did PA and IL. So with
no further changes in 2010, we end up with CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH.
... I think, somehow, we are misinterpreting the Subject: header here?
There's history, boring history, and statistics.
--
-Jack
Joe Bernstein
2019-07-18 17:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
ps: shoud multiple census be censa, censii, censuses, censopodes, or
centenarians?
Centurions, of course. They're there to whip you into line.

-- JLB
Kevrob
2019-07-18 18:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by David DeLaney
ps: shoud multiple census be censa, censii, censuses, censopodes, or
centenarians?
Centurions, of course. They're there to whip you into line.
-- JLB
"census" [cēnsūs] is also the nominative plural in Latin.
"Long u" in the plural - sen-soos as opposed to sen-sus.

4th declension.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/census

One wouldn't expect someone who hadn't studied Latin to have a clue about
4th declention plurals, so "censuses," formded per regular* English rules
ought to do the trick.


* To the extent that they are regular....

Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-07-18 19:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by David DeLaney
ps: shoud multiple census be censa, censii, censuses, censopodes, or
centenarians?
Centurions, of course. They're there to whip you into line.
-- JLB
"census" [cēnsūs] is also the nominative plural in Latin.
"Long u" in the plural - sen-soos as opposed to sen-sus.*
4th declension.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/census
Actually, Sr Thomas Aquinas taught us to use a "hard c" (k)
sound in pronouncing classical Latin. ken-sus & ken-soos.

Kevin R

David DeLaney
2019-07-18 04:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
1) Although Ohio had only become a state in 1803, by the early-to-mid
1[8]30s it had
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by t***@gmail.com
become the 3rd most populous state in the US, behind New York & Pennsylvania.
(Ohio is currently 7th.)
By the mid _1830s_ it had become the 3rd-most populous state. 1-8-3-0s.
Sheesh.
What was Ohio before 1803? I presume you don't
stake out a vacant plot of land yay size and declare it a state.
Why, it was a Territory, of course. Unclaimed by anyone Important as an actual
land-space-with-government. ("Important" meaning "crossed at least one ocean
voluntarily to get here, or their immediate ancestors within 200 years or so
had", of course.)

Dave, lines drawn on a map, then colored in
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Loading...