Keeping Wi-Fi Always Within Range

Post by AL
I immediately thought of SMS when I saw the headline. But alas it's
not all that it appears...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/personaltech/keeping-wi-fi-always-within-range.html?ref=todayspaper

Now who's trolling?

This is exactly on point.

EVen in New York, wifi is not available enough to not need a personal
3G/4G hotspot.

2013-05-16 17:26:59 UTC

On Thu, 16 May 2013 13:58:25 +0000 (UTC), Justin

Now who's trolling?

Trolling wasn't my intention since I agree with SMS that WiFi is
ubiquitous. It's just that I don't think I take the word quite as
literally. My *personal* feeling is that WiFis are ubiquitous like
McDonalds restaurants are ubiquitous. (As I documented earlier...)

And.... if whining here about whining is absurd as I've pointed out in
the past, is telling someone he's trolling, well, trolling? ... ;)

Post by Justin
This is exactly on point.

I agree. I have thought of just using my antiquated smartphone (with
the 3300 mah battery) as a teather and carrying around something more
modern like my N7 or an iPod Touch.

Post by Justin
EVen in New York, wifi is not available enough to not need a personal
3G/4G hotspot.

Though I've never been in NY, I do live in a densely populated area
and in my pre-smartphone days I got along just fine on WiFi alone with
my old iPod Touch. On my planned trips to the CA coast my stops (Yuma,
El Centro) have WiFi. And on some trips the places I stayed (outside
Sedona and Greer AZ) had no cell service but did have WiFi.

As always, YMMV.
-------------

BTW I just got a new laptop (it's been 2 years since the last one) and
it sports a touch screen. I bring it up because though I griped about
the Google store, many of the Microsoft store apps (IMO) suck too. (I
know, it's the developers fault.) The Kindle app is so bad I had to
leave the store and download the old Windows 7 version.

sms

2013-05-16 18:18:22 UTC

Post by AL
Trolling wasn't my intention since I agree with SMS that WiFi is
ubiquitous. It's just that I don't think I take the word quite as
literally. My *personal* feeling is that WiFis are ubiquitous like
McDonalds restaurants are ubiquitous. (As I documented earlier...)

LOL, I guess it all depends on how you define ubiquitous. One definition
is "constantly encountered" which is accurate. Another definition is
"being everywhere" which is clearly not the case, yet.

Post by AL
Though I've never been in NY, I do live in a densely populated area
and in my pre-smartphone days I got along just fine on WiFi alone with
my old iPod Touch. On my planned trips to the CA coast my stops (Yuma,
El Centro) have WiFi. And on some trips the places I stayed (outside
Sedona and Greer AZ) had no cell service but did have WiFi.

Yep, having Wi-Fi but no 3G or 4G data still occurs with surprising
frequency. But the good thing is that in major cities you'd be hard
pressed to find a place with no Wi-Fi. I recall going to Washington D.C.
and NYC a few years ago before I had a smart phone or tablet. My son had
his Nintendo DSi with him and we were able to use it in NYC and D.C.
just about everywhere to look stuff up (bus routes, museum hours, etc.).
I had a netbook but I wasn't going to lug that around everywhere.

The sign-up for one of those Clearwire services was pretty strange. They
ask you for your home address to determine if there's coverage. Why
would I care about coverage at home? I want coverage in places where
there's no Wi-Fi! That's the problem with the whole concept; in places
where Wi-Fi is available virtually everywhere, such as Silicon Valley,
New York City, Washington D.C., San Francisco, etc., you don't need one
of those Clearwire devices. In rural areas where finding Wi-Fi is more
difficult, there will be no Clearwire service (and likely no Sprint
service if you choose the model with both Clearwire and Sprint coverage).

2013-05-16 22:28:03 UTC

Post by sms
The sign-up for one of those Clearwire services was pretty strange. They
ask you for your home address to determine if there's coverage. Why
would I care about coverage at home?

Perhaps it's a legal thing?

My Cox TV Connect app provides me with free live streaming of my
subscribed cable TV channels but only in my area. It's blocked
elsewhere.

My CNN app offers me free live CNN TV video (anywhere) but I have to
enter my *Cox* user ID and password to get it. Yet I can stream live
CNN channel audio all I want (TuneIn Radio) no credentials required.

All legal mumbo jumbo I imagine... ;)

Post by sms
I want coverage in places where there's no Wi-Fi!

When I ran out of WiFi coverage in my pre-smartphone days I just
brought up my Peanut Reader and read a book.
(Those were my pre-Kindle days too... ;)

Justin

2013-05-17 13:30:49 UTC

Post by sms
The sign-up for one of those Clearwire services was pretty strange. They
ask you for your home address to determine if there's coverage. Why
would I care about coverage at home?

Perhaps it's a legal thing?

I think it's a roaming thing. They want to make sure you are in a home
market. Many regional carriers do the same thing, US Cellular for example.

Justin

2013-05-17 13:29:30 UTC

Post by sms

LOL, I guess it all depends on how you define ubiquitous. One definition
is "constantly encountered" which is accurate. Another definition is
"being everywhere" which is clearly not the case, yet.

Another is "being where you need it" which it clearly isn't

Post by sms
Yep, having Wi-Fi but no 3G or 4G data still occurs with surprising
frequency. But the good thing is that in major cities you'd be hard
pressed to find a place with no Wi-Fi. I recall going to Washington D.C.

Apparently not. Did you read the article?

Justin

2013-05-17 13:28:29 UTC

Post by AL
On Thu, 16 May 2013 13:58:25 +0000 (UTC), Justin

Now who's trolling?

mm hmm

Post by AL
And.... if whining here about whining is absurd as I've pointed out in
the past, is telling someone he's trolling, well, trolling? ... ;)

Of course it is!

Post by Justin
This is exactly on point.

I agree. I have thought of just using my antiquated smartphone (with
the 3300 mah battery) as a teather and carrying around something more
modern like my N7 or an iPod Touch.

That's an idea... I do it occasionally but the tethering is sometimes
iffy. It can be hard to tell if it's the phone's network connectivity
or the tablet's connection to the phone.

One really nice thing about the latest version of Android's wifi ability
is that it can be told that partiuclar wifi networks are really mobile
data so conserve bandwidth

Post by Justin
EVen in New York, wifi is not available enough to not need a personal
3G/4G hotspot.

Indeed, wifi available at planned stops is one thing. Wifi when you need
it is another. I think that was the point of the article.

Post by AL
BTW I just got a new laptop (it's been 2 years since the last one) and
it sports a touch screen. I bring it up because though I griped about
the Google store, many of the Microsoft store apps (IMO) suck too. (I
know, it's the developers fault.) The Kindle app is so bad I had to
leave the store and download the old Windows 7 version.

Windows 8 apps are lacking, yeah.

Not only that, it's a fricking laptop, I want more than one app on the screen
ata a time

2013-05-17 17:08:36 UTC

Post by Justin
wifi available at planned stops is one thing.

I don't think anybody is saying that WiFi coverage is better than cell
coverage. Just that WiFi coverage is ubiquitous, and that seems to be
true in the areas that *I* travel. McDonalds and Walmarts also seem
ubiquitous in the areas that I travel but perhaps not in yours... ;)

Post by Justin
Wifi when you need it is another.

*Need* is the key word here. I got along just fine on free WiFi
hotspots before I got my smartphone. But then I am retired. A business
persons *needs* would likely be quite different...

Post by Justin
Windows 8 apps are lacking, yeah.

Microsoft always seems to be behind the curve. Maybe their store will
eventually catch up to the others.

Post by Justin
Not only that, it's a fricking laptop, I want more than one app on the screen
ata a time

I never missed multiple windows on my tablets so I didn't notice any
difference on the new laptop when W8 is in the tablet mode (Start
screen). But Windows 8 is schizophrenic so you can switch to the
Desktop mode (laptop mode?) and have as many windows as before.

BTW Having a laptop with a touch screen that works like a tablet is a
new novelty for me. One drawback is that my screen keeps getting dirty
with fingerprints. Another is that I keep touching the screen of my
other laptop and wonder why nothing happens... :)

(PeteCresswell)

2013-05-17 17:34:57 UTC

Post by AL
I never missed multiple windows on my tablets so I didn't notice any
difference on the new laptop when W8 is in the tablet mode (Start
screen). But Windows 8 is schizophrenic so you can switch to the
Desktop mode (laptop mode?) and have as many windows as before.

I was all in a snit over the even-more-proprietary-than-usual power/USB
connector on my Samsung 10.1" Note.

Still am...

But my moral indignation has been mitigated a good bit since it dawned
on me that the 10.1 does multiple sizable concurrent windows.

I don't think I'd want to go back to single-window on something the size
of this tablet. On my 5" Note, I don't see multi-windows as
practical... but on 10", I call it a killer feature.

--
Pete Cresswell

n***@nada.com

2013-05-17 22:23:48 UTC

Post by (PeteCresswell)

I was all in a snit over the even-more-proprietary-than-usual power/USB
connector on my Samsung 10.1" Note.
Still am...

Ditto for my ASUS Transformer. I'm never buying another tablet with a
proprietary charging port.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
But my moral indignation has been mitigated a good bit since it dawned
on me that the 10.1 does multiple sizable concurrent windows.
I don't think I'd want to go back to single-window on something the size
of this tablet. On my 5" Note, I don't see multi-windows as
practical... but on 10", I call it a killer feature.

Justin

2013-05-17 17:37:29 UTC

Post by Justin
wifi available at planned stops is one thing.

I don't think anybody is saying that WiFi coverage is better than cell
coverage.

No, the original claim was that it's available wherever you want it

Post by AL
true in the areas that *I* travel. McDonalds and Walmarts also seem
ubiquitous in the areas that I travel but perhaps not in yours... ;)

I'm miles from a Mcdonalds. We live near the wally world in town though

Post by Justin
Wifi when you need it is another.

*Need* is the key word here. I got along just fine on free WiFi
hotspots before I got my smartphone. But then I am retired. A business
persons *needs* would likely be quite different...

If it's not available where you want it, it's certainly not going to be
available where you need it

Post by Justin
Windows 8 apps are lacking, yeah.

Microsoft always seems to be behind the curve. Maybe their store will
eventually catch up to the others.

Maybe... all the attention is on the flash in the pans that are weak sauce
tablets. Tablets may get there eventually, but they are underpowered

Post by Justin
Not only that, it's a fricking laptop, I want more than one app on the screen
ata a time

That's true, but with Microsoft's focus on the W8 apps, it's like they
don't understand what their users do.

Post by AL
BTW Having a laptop with a touch screen that works like a tablet is a
new novelty for me. One drawback is that my screen keeps getting dirty
with fingerprints. Another is that I keep touching the screen of my
other laptop and wonder why nothing happens... :)

I hate the fingerprints on my non touch screen, let alone the devices I have
with a touch screen. And cleaning those touch screens can often make things
happen that you didn't want.

2013-05-17 22:10:19 UTC

Post by Justin
Tablets may get there eventually, but they are underpowered

I think it's a balancing act.

Want more processing power? Faster graphics? Higher resolution?

That all means more battery power is needed which for the same battery
longevity will require a bigger battery, which requires more weight
and a larger size case and adds more heat.

I recently looked at the MS Surface Pro, reportedly a higher powered
tablet. Guess what? Way too big and heavy for a tablet (IMO) and it
was running very warm just sitting there doing nothing.

But, as you say, they may get there eventually.

Post by Justin
with Microsoft's focus on the W8 apps, it's like they
don't understand what their users do.

I suppose MS is trying to emulate the success of the Apple store.

Post by Justin
cleaning those touch screens can often make things
happen that you didn't want.

You mean you clean the screen when the device is on? Well then, let me
suggest that you turn it off before you clean it. Besides not making
strange things happen, it's easier to see the fingerprints... ;)

Justin

2013-05-18 12:53:42 UTC

Post by Justin
cleaning those touch screens can often make things
happen that you didn't want.

You mean you'd turn your laptop off, or your desktop off, to clean the screen?

2013-05-18 17:02:29 UTC

Post by AL
You mean you clean the screen when the device is on?

You mean you'd turn your laptop off,

Yes, I turn my laptop off (standby) to clean the screen. Like all my
other touchscreen devices the new laptop is instant-on.

Post by Justin
or your desktop off,

And my non-touchscreen devices don't quickly get covered in
fingerprints so (if I plan carefully) I can clean the screen before
the session starts.

Or maybe I should just stop eating potato chips while surfing... ;)

Post by Justin
to clean the screen?

Question: How do you know if a blond's been using your laptop?

Answer: From the white-out left on the screen...

...badoom tsss...

References: But if you need them the joke probably failed...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=joke%20drums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wite-Out

2013-05-18 19:42:47 UTC

Post by Justin
Not only that, it's a fricking laptop, I want more than one app on the screen
ata a time

Apparently in W8 Tablet mode you can *kind of* get 2 apps on the
screen at the same time.

"12. Run two apps side by side

Windows 8 apps are what Microsoft calls "immersive" applications,
which basically means they run full-screen - but there is a way to
view two at once. Swipe from the left and the last app you were using
will turn into a thumbnail; drop this and one app displays in a
sidebar pane while your current app takes the rest of the screen. And
you can then swap these by swiping again."

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/50-windows-8-tips-tricks-and-secrets-1028220/2#articleContent

But as I mentioned before Windows 8 is schizophrenic so you can switch
to the Desktop mode and have as many windows as before.

Perhaps I'll know more about W8 when I get to step 50... ;)

Justin

2013-05-19 12:58:08 UTC

Post by Justin
Not only that, it's a fricking laptop, I want more than one app on the screen
ata a time

Apparently in W8 Tablet mode you can *kind of* get 2 apps on the
screen at the same time.

yeah, kind of...

however, I usually have about 10 visible windows at a time

On a 24 inch monitor, the whole usage model of the modern UI is broken

Post by AL
But as I mentioned before Windows 8 is schizophrenic so you can switch
to the Desktop mode and have as many windows as before.

true, the undiscoverability of how to shut the system down is also a major
issue.

2013-05-19 18:54:15 UTC

Post by Justin
I usually have about 10 visible windows at a time

W8 Desktop will hold your 10 visible windows just fine.

Post by Justin
On a 24 inch monitor, the whole usage model of the modern UI is broken

I can see where the W8 apps store system might not work well for geeks
such as yourself (meant as a compliment). But for the average user
(think iPad) it probably is an easier UI to use. Especially for
newbies.

Post by Justin
the undiscoverability of how to shut the system down is also a major
issue.

I would call the W8 shut down procedure perhaps a poor UI software
design, but hardly a MAJOR ISSUE... 8-O

Virtually all consumer computers come with a physical off button.
Those who use their new computer to only live in the W8 (iPad like)
Start screen may go months or longer before even needing to find how
to shut down. By then they will have probably found it by accident...

But all is not lost, even for geeks. I found this just for you.
Enjoy... ;)

http://mywindows8.org/add-shutdown-button-in-windows-8/

Justin

2013-05-19 19:37:54 UTC

Post by Justin
I usually have about 10 visible windows at a time

W8 Desktop will hold your 10 visible windows just fine.

yes, with no indication of how to even open a single one of them.

Post by Justin
On a 24 inch monitor, the whole usage model of the modern UI is broken

You've fallen into the same trap as Microsoft, the average user also uses
applications at work on their work PC that often requires multiple windows
open and visible

Post by Justin
the undiscoverability of how to shut the system down is also a major
issue.

I would call the W8 shut down procedure perhaps a poor UI software
design, but hardly a MAJOR ISSUE... 8-O

Sure, if you have to google how to turn your machine off, or even how to
launch an application... that's a major issue

The first time you get dropped into the desktop, you have NO IDEA how to
open an app

Post by AL
Virtually all consumer computers come with a physical off button.

Which users have been educated against using except as a last ditch effort
for the last 18 years

Post by AL
Those who use their new computer to only live in the W8 (iPad like)
Start screen may go months or longer before even needing to find how
to shut down. By then they will have probably found it by accident...

How many people leave their computer always on? sleep drains the battery too

Post by AL
But all is not lost, even for geeks. I found this just for you.
Enjoy... ;)
http://mywindows8.org/add-shutdown-button-in-windows-8/

you mean you had to google how to shut it down? hmm

2013-05-19 22:51:39 UTC

Post by AL
W8 Desktop will hold your 10 visible windows just fine.

yes, with no indication of how to even open a single one of them.

If there are 10 visible windows already on the desktop, as indicated
above, then they would all be available by simply touching their icon
on the task bar.

But you said 'open' them so I ASSume that you mean the missing desktop
Start button in W8. Yes I agree that's a big pain. Maybe even a MAJOR
PAIN... ;) There are lots of third party work-arounds though. I'm
going to wait and see what 8.1 brings. There are rumors. For now I
just temporarily pinned a shortcut to the taskbar that points to the
desktop folder.

Post by Justin
You've fallen into the same trap as Microsoft,

I've fallen into the MS trap since DOS 5... :)

Post by Justin
the average user also uses
applications at work on their work PC

I can't imagine any reputable business using the Microsoft Store for
any serious business software, can you?

Post by Justin
that often requires multiple windows
open and visible

And most prior Windows business (desktop) software should work just
fine in W8, be it multiple windows, home or work, just as before...

Post by Justin
The first time you get dropped into the desktop, you have NO IDEA how to
open an app

"NO IDEA"? Was it a big learning curve for you... ;) There was
lots of new stuff to learn for me, especially the new clicks and
swipes and hidden menus. (I especially like the one you get by
right-clicking the lower left corner.)

Post by AL
Virtually all consumer computers come with a physical off button.

Which users have been educated against using except as a last ditch effort
for the last 18 years

These days that's and old wives tale. I guess you've been wasting a
lot of time doing shutdowns/reboots over the years, huh. Gosh no
wonder you have your panties in a wad over the hard to find W8 shut
down thing... ;)

Post by Justin
How many people leave their computer always on?

I don't know. I couldn't find any surveys on Google. Lots of reasons
given though, both pro and con. I would say it's definitely a YMMV
thing.

Post by Justin
sleep drains the battery too

I like to use sleep on this new laptop because that makes it instant
on just like my N7. But it is a desktop replacement and seldom leaves
the house so there is no battery problem for me. YMMV.

And as you know the 'off' button is easy programmed (sleep, hibernate,
shut down, battery or plugged in) so everyone's YMMV is covered well.

Post by Justin
you mean you had to google how to shut it down? hmm

I find it faster to use Google than the W8 help file... ;)

Justin

2013-05-19 23:53:36 UTC

Post by AL
But you said 'open' them so I ASSume that you mean the missing desktop
Start button in W8. Yes I agree that's a big pain. Maybe even a MAJOR
PAIN... ;) There are lots of third party work-arounds though. I'm
going to wait and see what 8.1 brings. There are rumors. For now I
just temporarily pinned a shortcut to the taskbar that points to the
desktop folder.

I use start 8 myself, but that was after I tried some other solutions

However, anyone used to Win95 through 7 would expect to be able to use
the start button to bring up a menu of apps.
That ain;t there

Post by Justin
the average user also uses
applications at work on their work PC

I can't imagine any reputable business using the Microsoft Store for
any serious business software, can you?

Nope. However, there are modern UI versions of office coming.

Post by Justin
The first time you get dropped into the desktop, you have NO IDEA how to
open an app

"NO IDEA"? Was it a big learning curve for you... ;) There was

Right, no idea.

Post by AL
lots of new stuff to learn for me, especially the new clicks and
swipes and hidden menus. (I especially like the one you get by
right-clicking the lower left corner.)

sure, you can stumble across things. However, with no visual cues to even
link to previous versions, just the support calls alone I will be fielding
from family who "upgrade" are going to be insane.

It's hard enough getting them to discern between the start button, the task
bar and the system tray. Add in right and left clicking and it's insane.

Swipes don't work unless you have a special piece of hardware, be it a touch
screen or pad designed for it

Post by AL
Virtually all consumer computers come with a physical off button.

Which users have been educated against using except as a last ditch effort
for the last 18 years

These days that's and old wives tale. I guess you've been wasting a

No, it's not. You should always allow the system to shut itself down

Post by AL
lot of time doing shutdowns/reboots over the years, huh. Gosh no

I shut down every day, sleep is tempermental and hibernate is a bitch.

Plus, you have to run updates

Post by Justin
sleep drains the battery too

I like to use sleep on this new laptop because that makes it instant
on just like my N7. But it is a desktop replacement and seldom leaves
the house so there is no battery problem for me. YMMV.
And as you know the 'off' button is easy programmed (sleep, hibernate,
shut down, battery or plugged in) so everyone's YMMV is covered well.

yep, except sleep has a habit of not restarting properly on certain hardware
it also has a habit of waking if the mouse moves a mm

Post by Justin
you mean you had to google how to shut it down? hmm

I find it faster to use Google than the W8 help file... ;)

It shouldn't be necessary to do either.

2013-05-20 02:32:19 UTC

Post by Justin
However, anyone used to Win95 through 7 would expect to be able to use
the start button to bring up a menu of apps.
That ain;t there

I think just about everyone I've read (and me too) agrees that leaving
the Start button off the W8 desktop was a mistake.

Post by Justin
The first time you get dropped into the desktop, you have NO IDEA how to
open an app

Have you never opened an app in W7 by double clicking its desktop
icon? I'm surprised that didn't occur to you with the W8 Desktop.

Post by Justin
sure, you can stumble across things. However, with no visual cues to even
link to previous versions, just the support calls alone I will be fielding
from family who "upgrade" are going to be insane.

You're a W8 support person??

Post by Justin
It's hard enough getting them to discern between the start button, the task
bar and the system tray.

Just keep those clueless types on the W8 Microsoft Store side. Have
them unpin the Desktop icon from the Start screen. Problem solved. I
mean isn't that new UI designed for the iPad crowd?

Post by Justin
Add in right and left clicking and it's insane.

All recent Windows OSs have had right and left clicking up the wazoo.
Every thing you clicked had a different context menu. Not much change
in W8 there.

Post by Justin
Swipes don't work unless you have a special piece of hardware, be it a touch
screen or pad designed for it

True. So instead of swiping left to get the Charms you just stick the
mouse in the upper right hand corner. Big whoop. Unless someone's a
complete idiot, they do it a few times and it's remembered.

Post by Justin
I shut down every day, sleep is tempermental and hibernate is a bitch.

Prior to this laptop I've used hibernation since it became available
in the OS with no problems that I could attribute to the practice.

However if I were to leave my computer on all the time during the day
as you apparently do I likely would shut it down at night also.

But If you popped into your playroom every now and then just to use
the laptop for a half hour or so you might do as I do... ;)

Post by Justin
Plus, you have to run updates

Update re-booting once a week isn't a big deal on this laptop. It
downloads updates in the background or while sleeping, then waits
until I'm through with the next session and re-boots when I hit the
off button and then goes back to sleep.

Post by Justin
sleep has a habit of not restarting properly on certain hardware

So I've read. Time will tell on this new laptop. I'll report back if
any problems occur.

Post by Justin
it also has a habit of waking if the mouse moves a mm

Well yes the mouse will wake it. But that would be a human problem
wouldn't it. One that's easily solved...

Post by AL
I find it faster to use Google than the W8 help file... ;)

It shouldn't be necessary to do either.

Did you see all the new gadgetry on the recently released Samsung
Galaxy S4 smartphone? Do you think the S3 folks will know how to work
all that new stuff just by intuition?

Justin

2013-05-20 02:39:04 UTC

Post by Justin
The first time you get dropped into the desktop, you have NO IDEA how to
open an app

Have you never opened an app in W7 by double clicking its desktop
icon? I'm surprised that didn't occur to you with the W8 Desktop.

Yes, that works great for the two icons on the desktop on a fresh install.
IE and explorer.

Not every app has a desktop icon, so even on my upgrade install I could
only launch firefox, chrome and IE.

How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

You're a W8 support person??

for friends and family, of course.

Post by Justin
It's hard enough getting them to discern between the start button, the task
bar and the system tray.

Just keep those clueless types on the W8 Microsoft Store side. Have
them unpin the Desktop icon from the Start screen. Problem solved. I

Except they all want to use their existing apps that aren't modern
UI. So they have to use the desktop

Post by Justin
Add in right and left clicking and it's insane.

All recent Windows OSs have had right and left clicking up the wazoo.
Every thing you clicked had a different context menu. Not much change
in W8 there.

True, however in a support call, after the first time you mention they need
to right click instead if left click, assuming they listen to what you are
saying a do right click... every single click after that they will ask
"left or right"...

Post by AL
True. So instead of swiping left to get the Charms you just stick the
mouse in the upper right hand corner. Big whoop. Unless someone's a
complete idiot, they do it a few times and it's remembered.

You give people too much credit...

Post by Justin
I shut down every day, sleep is tempermental and hibernate is a bitch.

Prior to this laptop I've used hibernation since it became available
in the OS with no problems that I could attribute to the practice.
However if I were to leave my computer on all the time during the day
as you apparently do I likely would shut it down at night also.
But If you popped into your playroom every now and then just to use
the laptop for a half hour or so you might do as I do... ;)

I am using the computer most of the time, so...

Post by Justin
it also has a habit of waking if the mouse moves a mm

Well yes the mouse will wake it. But that would be a human problem
wouldn't it. One that's easily solved...

not if the table gets a gust of wind or someone walks nearby it

Post by AL
I find it faster to use Google than the W8 help file... ;)

It shouldn't be necessary to do either.

Did you see all the new gadgetry on the recently released Samsung
Galaxy S4 smartphone? Do you think the S3 folks will know how to work
all that new stuff just by intuition?

Is the fundamental interaction method completely changed?

2013-05-20 04:04:35 UTC

On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:39:04 +0000 (UTC), Justin

Post by Justin
Not every app has a desktop icon, so even on my upgrade install I could
only launch firefox, chrome and IE.

You have a W8 upgrade? Ah. There's likely our differences.

My laptop came with W8 installed so I had to freshly install all my W7
software and most of the installations put icons on the desktop for
me.

However this10 year old Agent newsreader of mine doesn't install
anymore. So I just saved its folder from my W7 laptop and pasted it
into this W8 laptop. Then I made a shortcut of the Agent.exe file and
pinned it to the taskbar. Works great. Frankly I'm just glad its
working in yet another new version of the Windows OS... ;)

Post by Justin
How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

You really don't know? You're not just complaining?

Well on the chance that I can help here's how I did it with some of my
apps.

Go to the All Apps screen. Word should be listed there. Right click it
and you should see an icon at the screens bottom that says "open file
location". Click that and you will be taken to the Desktop in Windows
Explorer to a location that has the execution file that starts Word.
(Likely it is a shortcut but if not IMO it would be wise to make one.)
Then just Copy the shortcut and Paste it to the Desktop. (Or drag and
drop it.)

I've found that if an app in the All Apps screen won't run on the
Desktop then you probably won't see the "open file location" icon. But
many of them do and can be copied to the desktop.

I discovered this by messing around (intuition?) so there may be a
better way. Have you checked Google... ;)

Post by AL
You're a W8 support person??

for friends and family, of course.

Ah. My mistake. Thought you were talking about your job.

Post by AL
Just keep those clueless types on the W8 Microsoft Store side. Have
them unpin the Desktop icon from the Start screen. Problem solved. I

Except they all want to use their existing apps that aren't modern
UI. So they have to use the desktop

Yes, all that silly stuff about erasing the desktop icon changes when
they know where you live... :)

Post by AL
Well yes the mouse will wake it. But that would be a human problem
wouldn't it. One that's easily solved...

not if the table gets a gust of wind or someone walks nearby it

Unplug the mouse? Put it in a box? Store it behind the tower? Get a
trackball? Close the window? Fence off the work area? Etc.

Post by AL
Did you see all the new gadgetry on the recently released Samsung
Galaxy S4 smartphone? Do you think the S3 folks will know how to work
all that new stuff just by intuition?

Is the fundamental interaction method completely changed?

I don't know. You're saying my analogy failed again... :(

Justin

2013-05-20 16:19:47 UTC

Post by AL
On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:39:04 +0000 (UTC), Justin

Post by Justin
Not every app has a desktop icon, so even on my upgrade install I could
only launch firefox, chrome and IE.

You have a W8 upgrade? Ah. There's likely our differences.

I have done both, though I didn't buy anything with it preinstalled

Post by Justin
How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

You really don't know? You're not just complaining?
Well on the chance that I can help here's how I did it with some of my
apps.
Go to the All Apps screen. Word should be listed there. Right click it

I guess you have missed my point.

If you are on the desktop, how do you get to the All Apps screen?
There are zero visual clues

In fact, it took me, someone who has used windows since 3.11,
at least 15 minutes
to even figure out that the windows key did anything, since I have never
found a use for that key before.

Post by AL
Yes, all that silly stuff about erasing the desktop icon changes when
they know where you live... :)

And getting annoyed with them for doing what they think you told them,
instead of what you told them, is frowned upon

2013-05-20 17:22:13 UTC

Post by Justin
How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

I guess you have missed my point.

Boy did I ever miss your point. You said "how do I launch Word" from
the desktop so I told you. I just gotta learn Justin-speak better.
Like the desktop you complain about, you leave no visual clues... ;)

Post by Justin
If you are on the desktop, how do you get to the All Apps screen?
There are zero visual clues

But it's so easy to learn. And once learned its easily remembered. Why
clutter the screen with visual clues that are no longer needed after
the learning curve is completed?

Post by Justin
In fact, it took me, someone who has used windows since 3.11,
at least 15 minutes
to even figure out that the windows key did anything, since I have never
found a use for that key before.

Probably because you're too proud to just read the instructions.

Here's a few more. Once you *learn* the ones you use often they're
real time savers:

Win : switch between the Start screen and the last-running Windows 8
app
Win + C : displays the Charms: the Settings, Devices, Share and
Search options
Win + D : launches the desktop
Win + E : launches Explorer
Win + F : opens the File Search pane
Win + H : opens the Share pane
Win + I : opens Settings
Win + K : opens the Devices pane
Win + L : locks your PC
Win + M : minimises the current Explorer or Internet Explorer
window (works in the full-screen IE, too)
Win + O : toggles device orientation lock on and off
Win + P : switch your display to a second display or projector
Win + Q : open the App Search pane
Win + R : opens the Run box
Win + U : open the Ease of Access Centre
Win + V : cycle through toasts (notifications)
Win + W : search your system settings (type POWER for links to all
power-related options, say)
Win + X : displays a text menu of useful Windows tools and applets
Win + Z : displays the right-click context menu when in a
full-screen app
Win + + : launch Magnifier and zoom in
Win + - : zoom out
Win + , : Aero peek at the desktop
Win + Enter : launch Narrator
Win + PgUp : move the current screen to the left-hand monitor
Win + PgDn : move the current screen to the right-hand monitor
Win + PrtSc : capture the current screen and save it to your
Pictures folder
Win + Tab : switch between running apps

Justin

2013-05-20 17:47:01 UTC

Post by Justin
How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

I guess you have missed my point.

I don't have a 100 million user install base

Post by Justin
If you are on the desktop, how do you get to the All Apps screen?
There are zero visual clues

But it's so easy to learn. And once learned its easily remembered. Why
clutter the screen with visual clues that are no longer needed after
the learning curve is completed?

I have a great reason... about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly

Post by AL
Probably because you're too proud to just read the instructions.

What instructions? There were none

I got no manual with my Win8 download. (yes, bought and paid for from MS)

2013-05-20 22:25:10 UTC

Post by Justin
about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly

Time to buy a new keyboard, they're cheap.

Post by AL
Probably because you're too proud to just read the instructions.

What instructions? There were none
I got no manual with my Win8 download.

Join the crowd.

I got a single sheet quick start guide in the new laptop's box.

Justin

2013-05-20 22:57:13 UTC

Post by Justin
about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly

Time to buy a new keyboard, they're cheap.

This is a new keyboard.

2013-05-21 01:46:03 UTC

Post by Justin
about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly

Time to buy a new keyboard, they're cheap.

This is a new keyboard.

Well, I was able to help you figure out how to get your Word and other
apps onto your W8 Desktop so tell me more and maybe I can help you fix
your keyboard problems too... ;)

Justin

2013-05-21 02:02:36 UTC

Post by Justin
about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly

Time to buy a new keyboard, they're cheap.

This is a new keyboard.

Well, I was able to help you figure out how to get your Word and other
apps onto your W8 Desktop so tell me more and maybe I can help you fix
your keyboard problems too... ;)

For some reason windows doesn't recognise USB keyboards sometimes.
A reboot is required.

2013-05-21 06:59:11 UTC

Post by Justin
about 5% of the time on my current PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly
This is a new keyboard.
For some reason windows doesn't recognise USB keyboards sometimes.
A reboot is required.

Did this problem start happening just since you upgraded to W8?

Justin

2013-05-21 14:19:49 UTC

Did this problem start happening just since you upgraded to W8?

No, this happens in windows 7, too

2013-05-21 16:58:45 UTC

about 5% of the time on my current [W8] PC my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly
This is a new keyboard.
windows doesn't recognise USB keyboards sometimes.
A reboot is required.
this happens in windows 7, too

Do you have a PS/2 connector?

Justin

2013-05-21 17:33:34 UTC

Do you have a PS/2 connector?

no, nor does my computer have a PS/2 port

tlvp

2013-05-21 01:30:44 UTC

... my keyboard
doesn't respond. So that vaunted window key doesn't do didly ...

For those times when only the Windows Key doesn't respond, or those other
times when, like on older ThinkPads, there *is* no Windows Key, the combo
[Ctrl]-[Esc] will emulate a [Win] keystroke. Or did, on that ThinkPad :-) .

And, fwiw, I began by calling what you guys are calling the Windows Key the
Start key (same graphic, more or less, as the Win 95 Start-button icon).

Cheers, -- tlvp

--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

n***@nada.com

2013-05-21 10:21:05 UTC

On Mon, 20 May 2013 10:22:13 -0700, AL

Post by Justin
How do I launch Word? How do I launch any other install app?

I guess you have missed my point.

Post by Justin
If you are on the desktop, how do you get to the All Apps screen?
There are zero visual clues

But it's so easy to learn. And once learned its easily remembered. Why
clutter the screen with visual clues that are no longer needed after
the learning curve is completed?

Probably because you're too proud to just read the instructions.
Here's a few more. Once you *learn* the ones you use often they're
Win : switch between the Start screen and the last-running Windows 8
app
Win + C : displays the Charms: the Settings, Devices, Share and
Search options
Win + D : launches the desktop
Win + E : launches Explorer
Win + F : opens the File Search pane
Win + H : opens the Share pane
Win + I : opens Settings
Win + K : opens the Devices pane
Win + L : locks your PC
Win + M : minimises the current Explorer or Internet Explorer
window (works in the full-screen IE, too)
Win + O : toggles device orientation lock on and off
Win + P : switch your display to a second display or projector
Win + Q : open the App Search pane
Win + R : opens the Run box
Win + U : open the Ease of Access Centre
Win + V : cycle through toasts (notifications)
Win + W : search your system settings (type POWER for links to all
power-related options, say)
Win + X : displays a text menu of useful Windows tools and applets
Win + Z : displays the right-click context menu when in a
full-screen app
Win + + : launch Magnifier and zoom in
Win + - : zoom out
Win + , : Aero peek at the desktop
Win + Enter : launch Narrator
Win + PgUp : move the current screen to the left-hand monitor
Win + PgDn : move the current screen to the right-hand monitor
Win + PrtSc : capture the current screen and save it to your
Pictures folder
Win + Tab : switch between running apps

That list is your idea of what's easy to learn and remember?

2013-05-21 16:58:45 UTC

Post by n***@nada.com
On Mon, 20 May 2013 10:22:13 -0700, AL

Post by AL
Win : switch between the Start screen and the last-running Windows 8
app
Win + C : displays the Charms: the Settings, Devices, Share and
Search options
Win + D : launches the desktop
Win + E : launches Explorer
Win + F : opens the File Search pane
Win + H : opens the Share pane
Win + I : opens Settings
Win + K : opens the Devices pane
Win + L : locks your PC
Win + M : minimises the current Explorer or Internet Explorer
window (works in the full-screen IE, too)
Win + O : toggles device orientation lock on and off
Win + P : switch your display to a second display or projector
Win + Q : open the App Search pane
Win + R : opens the Run box
Win + U : open the Ease of Access Centre
Win + V : cycle through toasts (notifications)
Win + W : search your system settings (type POWER for links to all
power-related options, say)
Win + X : displays a text menu of useful Windows tools and applets
Win + Z : displays the right-click context menu when in a
full-screen app
Win + + : launch Magnifier and zoom in
Win + - : zoom out
Win + , : Aero peek at the desktop
Win + Enter : launch Narrator
Win + PgUp : move the current screen to the left-hand monitor
Win + PgDn : move the current screen to the right-hand monitor
Win + PrtSc : capture the current screen and save it to your
Pictures folder
Win + Tab : switch between running apps

That list is your idea of what's easy to learn and remember?

I don't use them all. And I use the obvious intended mnemonics to
remember the ones I do use. It really is much easier and faster than
moving the mouse around. And I've found that it often saves effort
over using gestures on a touch screen too.

Give it a try, you may like it... ;)

They're not all that hard to remember:

Win + C harms
Win + D esktop
Win + Q uestion (for search)
Etc...

W8 developers seem to have forgotten a Windows key combination to go
to the All Apps screen. So I just use Win + Q (search) and then hit
the escape key. Where there's a will there's a way... ;)

n***@nada.com

2013-05-20 09:41:09 UTC

On Sun, 19 May 2013 19:32:19 -0700, AL