Discussion:
The false "prophet" muhammad, filthy beast...SADIST, PEDOPHILE
(too old to reply)
Gary Rumain
2006-05-09 14:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
Was Muhammad a Pedophile? An Examination of Muhammad's Relationship
with a Nine-Year-Old Girl
Muhammad and Aisha: Early Muslim writings attest that Muhammad had
sexual relations with a 9-year old girl. Should this be a concern to
those who hold Muhammad to be a model of holiness?
Was Muhammad a Pedophile?
An Examination Of Muhammad's Relationship With a Nine-Year-Old Girl
By David Wood
For the Western mind, perhaps the most disturbing fact about Islam is
that its founder had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl.
Because of this, it has become increasingly popular in some circles to
refer to the Prophet of Islam as a "pedophile." This is, of course,
extremely offensive to Muslims, who view Muhammad as the ideal servant
of God and as the greatest example of what a man should strive to be.
Nevertheless, Muhammad's relationship with a young girl presents a
problem for Muslims, especially for those who want to share their faith
with others.
Since much of the following information will come as a shock to those
who are unfamiliar with this issue, we must be careful not to jump to
hasty conclusions about Muhammad. Pedophilia is one of the most serious
charges that can be leveled against a person, so the term
"pedophile" should not be used lightly. We must also remember that,
if a man has a sexual relationship with a young girl in a culture where
such a union is permissible, this doesn't necessarily mean that the
man is a "sexual predator," as the term "pedophile" implies.
Christians especially should be wary of flippant name-calling. With
that said, let us carefully examine Muhammad's relationship with
Aisha, recalling the Western principle that a man is innocent until
proven guilty.
Faced with the arguments of Western critics, one Muslim apologist has
pieced together information from various accounts in an attempt to deny
The popular misconception as to Aishah's age may be removed here. . .
. Isabah, speaking of the Holy Prophet's daughter Fatimah, says that
she was about five years older than Aishah. It is a well-established
fact that Fatimah was born when the Ka'bah was being rebuilt, i.e.,
five years before the Call. Aishah was therefore born in the year of
the Call or a little before it, and she could not have been less than
ten years at the time of her marriage with the Holy Prophet in the
tenth year of the Call. . . . And as the period between her marriage
and its consummation was not less than five years, because the
consummation took place in the second year of the Flight, it follows
that she could not have been less than fifteen at that time. The
popular account that she was six years at marriage and nine years at
the time of consummation is decidedly not correct because it supposes
the period between the marriage and its consummation to be only three
years, and this is historically wrong.[1]
The problem with this selective and carefully edited response (other
than the complete lack of references) is that it ignores the numerous
accounts we now possess which record Aisha's age when Muhammad
consummated his marriage to her. Many of these accounts are from Aisha
herself. Indeed, the evidence for Muhammad's marriage to the young
Aisha is as strong as the evidence for just about any other fact in
Islam. We have copious traditions relating Muhammad's marriage
proposal when Aisha was six or seven years old, as well as his
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may
the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was
six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine
years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his
death).[2]
Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (The blessing and peace of
Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or
so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age,
and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.[3]
Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon
him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years
old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.[4]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may
peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was
admitted to his house when I was nine years old.[5]
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may
peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she
was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were
with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years
old.[6]
This is just a sample of the early Muslim traditions reporting
Muhammad's marriage to the young Aisha, but it is sufficient to show
that she certainly wasn't fifteen years old at the time of the
consummation, as Maulana Ali claims.
In addition to traditions regarding Aisha's age, the Hadith also
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (The
blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said to her: "You have been
shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk
and someone said (to me), 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the
picture, I saw that it was yours. I said: 'If this is from Allah, it
will be done.'"[7]
After having this dream about Aisha, Muhammad proceeded to ask her
father Abu Bakr for her hand in marriage. Abu Bakr understandably
objected at first, but Muhammad was able to persuade him to agree, and
The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) asked Abu
Bakr for Aisha's hand in marriage. Abut Bakr said: "But I am your
brother." The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon
him) said: "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book,
but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."[8]
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: The Prophet (The
blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married me when I was a girl
of six (years). We went to Madina and stayed at the home of
Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later
on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Umm Ruman, came to me while I
was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and
I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me
by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was
breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some
water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the
house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said: "Best
wishes and Allah's Blessing and good luck." Then she entrusted me
to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's
Apostle (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) came to me in the
forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a
girl of nine years of age.[9]
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: When the Prophet (may
the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married me, my mother came
to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing
surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the
forenoon.[10]
Once Aisha was a part of Muhammad's household, she became his
favorite wife, even after he married several other women. Indeed,
Muhammad's other wives had to plead with him for treatment equal to
The wives of Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon
him) were in two groups. One group consisted of Aisha, Hafsa, Safiyya
and Sauda; and the other group consisted of Umm Salama and the other
wives of Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon
him). The Muslims knew that Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace
of Allah be upon him) loved Aisha, so if any of them had a gift and
wished to give it to Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of Allah
be upon him), he would delay it, till Allah's Apostle (the blessing
and peace of Allah be upon him) had come to Aisha's home . . . The
group of Umm Salama discussed the matter together and decided that Umm
Salama should request Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of
Allah be upon him) to tell the people to send their gifts to him in
whatever wife's house he was. . . . [Muhammad replied]: "Do not
hurt me regarding Aisha, as the Divine Inspiration did not reveal it to
me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." . . . Then the group of
Umm Salama called Fatimah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle (the
blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) and sent her to Allah's
"Your wives request to treat them and the daughter of Abu Bakr on
equal terms."[12]
Thus, Aisha held a place of special favor among Muhammad's wives,
which caused a great deal of tension among the women. Since it may be
taken as historically certain that Aisha was very young when her
marriage to Muhammad was consummated, critics often charge that
Muhammad's preference for Aisha reveals his preference for young
When I took the permission of Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace
of Allah be upon him), he asked me whether I had married a matron. He
said: "Why hadn't you married a virgin that would play with you,
and you would play with her?" I replied: "O Allah's Apostle! My
father died and I have young sisters, so I felt it not proper that I
should marry a young girl like them who would neither teach them
manners nor serve them."[13]
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: I used to play with the
dolls in the presence of the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of
Allah be upon him), and my girl friends also used to play with me. When
Allah's Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him)
used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the
Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) would call
them to join and play with me.[14]
Nevertheless, it must be noted that, if Muhammad had truly been
obsessed with young girls, he could have taken many others as his
wives. Muhammad eventually held complete power in Medina and later in
Mecca, yet he didn't build himself a harem of young girls.
It is disturbing to find repeated mention of one of Aisha's tasks as
Muhammad's wife. The young bride was required to clean semen marks
Sulaiman bin Yasar narrated: "I asked Aisha (may Allah be pleased
with her) about the clothes soiled with semen. She said: 'I used to
wash it off the garment of Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of
Allah be upon him) and he would go for the prayer with water spots
still visible.'"[15]
Aisha said: In case you saw it (i.e. drop of semen), it would have
served the purpose (of purifying the garment) if you had simply washed
that spot; and in case you did not see it, it would have been enough to
sprinkle water around it, for when I saw that on the garment of the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), I simply scraped it off and
he offered prayer, while putting that on.[16]
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: I used to wash the
semen off the clothes of the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah
be upon him) and even then I used to notice one or more spots on
them.[17]
Further, there are several reports of Muhammad fondling his wives
(including the young Aisha) while they were on their periods, in
addition to accounts of his "night turns," during which he would
Aisha narrated: "The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon
him) and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were in the
ritual impure state. During the menses, he used to order me to wrap my
waist with a dress and used to fondle me, while in menses. He used to
bring his head near me during his seclusion and I would wash while I
was in my period."[18]
Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle (the blessing and peace of
Allah be upon him) wanted to fondle anyone of us during her period
(menses), he used to order her to put on a wrap and then fondle
her."[19]
Anas bin Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) had said: "The Prophet
(the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) used to visit all his
wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in
number." I said to Anas: "Had the Prophet (the blessing and peace
of Allah be upon him) the strength for doing this?" Anas said: "We
used to narrate that the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be
upon him) was given the strength of thirty (men)."[20]
The Prophet (may the blessing and Peace of Allah be upon him) used to
go around (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and
he had nine wives [at that time].[21]
Hence, it is clear (1) that Muhammad had sexual intercourse with Aisha
when she was very young, (2) that this relationship was pursued by
Muhammad after he dreamed about her, (3) that she was his favorite
wife, (4) that she was given the duty of cleaning semen stains off his
clothes, (5) that he would fondle her (and others) during her period,
and (6) that he would sometimes have sex with Aisha and his other wives
all in the same day.
Muslim apologists deal with these facts in three different ways. As we
have already seen, some defenders of Islam reject the hadiths that
report the young age of Aisha. However, we saw that the evidence for
Aisha's age is simply too strong to ignore.
Another method of defending Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is the
Muslim appeal to moral relativity. According to this view, since
different cultures have different standards of morality, it is wrong to
criticize the standards of others based on one's own ethical system.
The Arabs practised pologamy. In the wake of custom the Prophet
Muhammad married some ladies. Hazrat Khadijah was fifteen years older
[than] him at the time of marriage. Most of them were his age sake.
In his fifties he married Hazrat Aiysha, the daughter of Hazrat Abu
Bakr when she was just bloomed to youth. Hinting this marriage some of
the orientalists charge Prophet Muhammad as a "pedophile". It was
not only the Prophet Muhammad who had married a young girl [but] even
the father of Hazrat Aiysha, Hazrat Abu Bakr had also married a young
girl in his sixties. It was . . . part of the prevalent Arab culture
and custom. Hence not to be taken seriously.[22]
The large majority of Islamic jurists say that the earliest time which
a marriage can be consummated is at the onset of sexual maturity
(bulugh), meaning puberty. Since this was the norm of all Semitic
cultures and it still is the norm of many cultures today-it is
certainly not something that Islam invented.[23]
Thus, since the practice of marrying young girls was "part of the
prevalent Arab culture and custom," it is "not to be taken
seriously" as a criticism of Islam. This defense is truly amazing,
for, when defending Muhammad's moral perfection, Muslims often
maintain that Muhammad condemned the Arab culture for the prevalent
After spending his life in such chaste, pure and civilized manner,
there comes a revolution in [Muhammad's] being. He wearies of the
darkness and ignorance, corruption, immorality, idolatry, and disorder
which surround him on all sides. . . . He wants to get hold of that
power with which he might bring about the downfall of the corrupt and
disorderly world and lay the foundations of a new and better one. . . .
He wanted to change the whole structure of society which had been
handed down to them from time immemorial.[24]
Muslims are also quick to point out immorality around the world,
especially in the West. It seems, then, that Muslims are suggesting a
very inconsistent message. When confronted with an immoral practice in
another culture, Muslims cry out in one accord, "We condemn these
practices, for they are against the eternal, perfect, and unalterable
Law of God!" Yet, whenever the moral character of Muhammad is being
scrutinized, Muslims suddenly say, "Don't judge Muhammad! You
should remember that he was from a different culture! Marrying young
girls was common in Arabia, and it still is, thanks to Muhammad's
precedent. Different people have different moral standards, so no one
should worry about Muhammad's sexual relationship with a
nine-year-old girl."
This convenient switch from moral absolutism to moral relativism is
logically unacceptable. Nevertheless, Muslim apologists have developed
another answer to Muhammad's critics, namely, that Muhammad's
marriage to Aisha was part of God's divine plan (i.e. God had a
It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may
peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it.
Hadrat Aisha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and
body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was
admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just
at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative
period of her life. It was the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) who
nurtured her sensibilities and directed the growth of her faculties to
the most fruitful channel and thus she was made to play an eminent role
in the history of Islam. Moreover, she was the only virgin lady to
enter the House of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) and was
thus very competent to share the feelings of other ladies of younger
age who had numerous questions to ask from the Holy Prophet (may peace
be upon him) with regard to sexual ethics and morality. These ladies
felt shy of asking them through the elderly wives of the Holy Prophet
(may peace be upon him) out of modesty. They could speak out their
minds comparatively more freely to Aisha who was more or less of their
own age group.[25]
Puberty is a biological sign which shows that a woman is capable of
bearing children. Can anyone logically deny this? Part of the wisdom
behind the Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aishah just after she
reached puberty is to firmly establish this as a point of Islamic Law,
even though it was already a cultural norm in all Semitic societies
(including the one Jesus grew up in).[26]
Here Muslim apologists argue that Muhammad married Aisha for a divine
purpose. Young girls who have questions about sex need someone to talk
to, and who better for this task than the young wife of the Prophet?
Further, Muhammad wanted to establish puberty as an appropriate age for
marriage, so he decided to demonstrate this rule by marrying Aisha.
There are numerous problems with this defense. First, such a response
could be used to justify nearly any behavior. Consider a husband on
trial for beating his wife. When he takes the stand, he explains,
"Your Honor, many women are victims of spousal abuse, and they need
someone to talk to. Out of the kindness of my heart, I decided to beat
my wife, so that she would be able to comfort other women whose
husbands beat them." Such an explanation would never be accepted
(except, perhaps, in countries under Islamic rule where the Qur'an
guarantees a husband's right to beat his wife[27]). Besides, if
Muhammad had outlawed sex with children instead of becoming a willing
participant, little girls wouldn't have to worry about sex, and they
wouldn't need to question Aisha.
Second, it isn't necessary for a lawgiver to institute laws by
performing actions that create a precedent. In other words, Muhammad
didn't need to marry a young girl in order establish a law about
marrying girls who had reached puberty. Muhammad, as Islam's
lawgiver, could have simply issued a decree. For instance, Muhammad
allowed husbands to beat their wives. Was it necessary for Muhammad to
beat his wives in order to establish this as a law? Certainly not.
Similarly, when an American lawmaker says that killing someone in
self-defense is acceptable, no one argues that the lawmaker must go out
and kill someone in self-defense if his law is to stand. Hence, the
argument that Muhammad needed to marry a young girl to establish
puberty as the appropriate age for marriage completely fails.
Third, the Muslim claim that Aisha was a "precocious child" strains
the evidence. Aisha herself reports that, when she was taken to
Muhammad's house, she was playing on a swing with her friends. She
was also still playing with dolls. Based on the evidence, Aisha sounds
like a normal little girl, not like a young adult. Besides, Muhammad
didn't marry her because she was precocious; he married her because
he was dreaming about her.
Fourth, Muslims search for reasons to justify Muhammad's relationship
with Aisha because they are convinced that everything Muhammad did had
a divine purpose behind it. When critics point out Muhammad's
numerous murders and assassinations, Muslims claim that these violent
acts were just. When critics note the extent of Muhammad's polygamy,
or his participation in the slave-trade, or his countless
robberies,[28] Muslims provide answers based on their idea that
Muhammad was an outstanding moral example. Similarly, when Muslims are
confronted with the evidence for Muhammad's sexual encounters with
Aisha, they assume that there must have been a reason for it. They then
invent reasons for Muhammad's behavior (i.e. the other little girls
needed someone to talk to about sex), and they offer these reasons as a
defense of Muhammad's morality. However, non-Muslims do not share
this confidence in Muhammad's moral perfection. Indeed, when
non-Muslims hear about Muhammad's violence, his greed, his polygamy,
and his support of spousal abuse, we aren't as quick to say "He
must have had a reason" as Muslims seem to be. Because of this,
Muslim justifications for Muhammad's marriage to Aisha sound hollow
when presented as a logical defense of Muhammad's actions.
Finally, Muslim explanations for Muhammad's behavior fail to take
into account the dangers that accompany sex at a young age. Many
Muslims claim that, as soon as a young girl gets her first period, she
is ready to bear children. This "old enough to bleed, old enough to
breed" mentality, aside from being disgusting, is completely false. A
nine-year-old girl isn't ready for sex or children, even if she
reaches menses earlier than other little girls. Children that young are
still growing; when they become pregnant, their bodies divert
nutritional resources to the developing fetus, depriving the growing
girls of much-needed vitamins and minerals. Further, all sorts of
complications result from adolescent pregnancies, because the bodies of
the young girls simply aren't ready to give birth.
The West has discerned the dangers posed by adolescent pregnancies.
Muslim apologists often claim that marriage to young girls was common
in biblical times. This may be correct, but it is because young
marriages were part of the culture, not because God endorsed them.
Whereas many Christian countries have recognized the potential harms
brought on by pregnancies among adolescent girls and have raised the
legal age for marriage, Muslim countries are often kept from such
advancements because of Muhammad. This is interesting, for Muslims
often claim that Muhammad was scientifically enlightened and that the
Qur'an is a scientific masterpiece.[29] In reality, Muhammad's
marriage to Aisha is injuring young girls across the Middle East and
North Africa. The dangers have even been noted by the United Nations,
which issued the following report in an attempt to curb the practices
Traditional cultural practices reflect values and beliefs held by
members of a community for periods often spanning generations. Every
social grouping in the world has specific traditional cultural
practices and beliefs, some of which are beneficial to all members,
while others are harmful to a specific group, such as women. These
harmful traditional practices include female genital mutilation (FGM);
forced feeding of women; early marriage; the various taboos or
practices which prevent women from controlling their own fertility;
nutritional taboos and traditional birth practices; son preference and
its implications for the status of the girl child; female infanticide;
early pregnancy; and dowry price. Despite their harmful nature and
their violation of international human rights laws, such practices
persist because they are not questioned and take on an aura of morality
in the eyes of those practicing them.
Child marriage robs a girl of her childhood-time necessary to develop
physically, emotionally and psychologically. In fact, early marriage
inflicts great emotional stress as the young woman is removed from her
parents' home to that of her husband and in-laws. Her husband, who
will invariably be many years her senior, will have little in common
with a young teenager. It is with this strange man that she has to
develop an intimate emotional and physical relationship. She is
obliged to have intercourse, although physically she might not be fully
developed.
Health complications that result from early marriage in the Middle East
and North Africa, for example, include the risk of operative delivery,
low weight and malnutrition resulting from frequent pregnancies and
lactation in the period of life when the young mothers are themselves
still growing.
Early pregnancy can have harmful consequences for both young mothers
and their babies. According to UNICEF, no girl should become pregnant
before the age of 18 because she is not yet physically ready to bear
children. Babies of mothers younger than 18 tend to be born premature
and have low body weight; such babies are more likely to die in the
first year of life. The risk to the young mother's own health is also
greater. Poor health is common among indigent pregnant and lactating
women.
In many parts of the developing world, especially in rural areas, girls
marry shortly after puberty and are expected to start having children
immediately. Although the situation has improved since the early
1980's, in many areas the majority of girls under 20 years of age are
already married and having children. Although many countries have
raised the legal age for marriage, this has had little impact on
traditional societies where marriage and child-bearing confer
"status" on a woman.
An additional health risk to young mothers is obstructed labor, which
occurs when the baby's head is too big for the orifice of the mother.
This provokes vesicovaginal fistulas, especially when an untrained
traditional birth attendant forces the baby's head out unduly.[30]
Contrary to Muslim claims, a nine-year-old girl just isn't ready for
sexual intercourse or for its possible ramifications (i.e., pregnancy,
giving birth, breast-feeding, and raising a child). It is unnecessarily
dangerous, for a much safer relationship could be created if the
marriage were to take place several years later, when the girl reaches
her late teens. Muslims may respond to this by arguing, "But Aisha
never became pregnant, so none of this matters." Yet it does matter.
Every year, countless young girls, still playing with dolls, are taken
to live with much older husbands. If these husbands were to be
challenged, they wouldn't respond by saying, "But it's part of
Arabic culture"; instead, they would reply, "It can't be wrong,
since Muhammad did it too."
Assessment
Muhammad has been accused of pedophilia in numerous writings, sermons,
and conversations. We have seen that the earliest Muslim traditions
offer support for this view. However, the evidence sustaining the
charge of pedophilia is perhaps too limited to warrant such a harsh
conclusion. We know that Muhammad had a sexual relationship with a
young girl, and that this was reprehensible. Yet we must take cultural
differences into consideration in formulating an accurate appraisal of
a person's character. In Muhammad's society, sexual intercourse was
acceptable when a girl reached menses, and Muhammad probably waited
until Aisha had reached this age.
Similarly, we don't have enough information to call Muhammad a
"pervert." While Muhammad's sexual acts may seem startling, we
don't know enough about the nature of these acts to condemn him as a
sexual deviant or a predator.
Nevertheless, Muslims are too hasty in dismissing Muhammad's
relationship with Aisha. We can't simply ignore a prophet's
marriage to a nine-year-old girl. Muslims view Muhammad as the highest
example of a moral life, but his marriage to Aisha conflicts with that
view. If they want to put Muhammad forward as the standard of morality,
Muslims need to come to terms with the many questionable things
Muhammad did.
There is a simple, but highly explicit, way to evaluate the importance
of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha. We must begin by trying to get a
mental picture of a morally perfect man. For Muslims, this will include
all the things they have been taught about Muhammad. According to their
picture, he is kind, generous, patient, humble, and trustworthy. He
protects orphans and widows, endures persecution, helps the needy, and
promotes justice. He prays faithfully, fasts regularly, and obeys God
in everything. He is loyal to his friends and patient with his enemies.
He never gives in when tempted with evil. Now we must picture that same
man in a room with an innocent little girl. He takes away her doll,
climbs on top of her, and puts his penis inside her. She doesn't know
what is happening because she is too young to know much about sex.
Frightened and confused, she cries because of the pain and bleeds on
her bed, but she tries to remain quiet out of respect for her new
husband, who, in return, endangers her life. Later, he tells her to
wash the semen off his clothes so he can go to the mosque to pray.
If a person is able to keep the same vision of moral perfection
throughout that description, he may have the faith necessary to be a
Muslim. But if his vision of the perfect man is at odds with what
Muhammad did on numerous occasions, he will need to look elsewhere for
an ideal human being.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Maulana Muhammad Ali, Muhammad the Prophet (St. Lambert: Payette
and Sims, 1993), pp. 183-184.
[2] Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic
Book Service, 2002), Number 5133. See also 5134.
[3] Ibid., Number 3896.
[4] Ibid., Number 5158.
[5] Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 3310.
[6] Ibid, Number 3311.
[7] Sahih Al-Bukhari, Number 3895. See also Number 5078.
[8] Ibid., Number 5081.
[9] Ibid., Number 3894.
[10] Ibid., Number 5160.
[11] The Qur'an commands husbands to treat their wives equally (4:3),
a command that Muhammad clearly violated. Of course, the same verse
also forbids husbands to marry more than four women, but Muhammad
received a revelation granting him immunity from this law (33:50).
[12] Ibid., Number 2581.
[13] Ibid., Number 2967.
[14] Ibid., Number 6130.
[15] Ibid., Number 230.
[16] Sahih Muslim, Number 566.
[17] Ibid., Number 232.
[18] Ibid., Numbers 299-301.
[19] Ibid., Number 302.
[20] Sahih Al-Bukhari, Number 268.
[21] Ibid., Number 5068.
[22] Professor Maqsood Jafri, "On The Character of Prophet Muhammad
(PBUH)," accessed at
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_201_250/on_the_character_of_prophet_muha.htm.
[23] Abdur Rahman R. Squires, "The Young Marriage of Aishah,"
accessed at http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm.
[24] Abul A'la Mawdudi, Towards Understanding Islam (Islamic Circle
of North America, 1986), pp. 53, 56.
[25] Sahih Muslim, Note 1860 (p. 716).
[26] Squires, "The Young Marriage of Aishah."
[27] According to the Quran, "Men are the maintainers of women
because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they
spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient,
guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose
part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the
sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way
against them; surely Allah is High, Great" (v. 4:34, M.H. Shakir
Translation).
[28] For references, see "Islam Beheaded" at
http://www.answeringinfidels.com/content/view/58/42/.
[29] For more on this, see "Talking Ants and Shrinking Humans" at
http://www.answeringinfidels.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=63.
[30] Office of the High Commissioner for Human rights, Fact Sheet No.
23, "Harmful Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and
Children," accessed at http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs23.htm.
The actual report is much longer than the selections quoted here.
ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
2006-05-09 15:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
as follows:

! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
!
Gary Rumain
2006-05-10 04:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!

And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
The Rev"d
2006-05-10 06:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
Gary Rumain
2006-05-10 14:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Same difference, scumbag.
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
The Rev"d
2006-05-10 17:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Same difference, scumbag.
No, different difference, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
Gary Rumain
2006-05-11 03:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Watch who you're calling a raghead, scumbag.
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Same difference, scumbag.
No, different difference, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
The Rev"d
2006-05-11 04:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Watch who you're calling a raghead, scumbag.
Watch who you're calling a scumbag, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Same difference, scumbag.
No, different difference, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
Gary Rumain
2006-05-11 13:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Ah, yes, the old monkey see, monkey do response. There can be no doubt
now that you're really a muzzie
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Watch who you're calling a raghead, scumbag.
Watch who you're calling a scumbag, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Same difference, scumbag.
No, different difference, raghead.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by The Rev"d
Post by Gary Rumain
Request denied, you muzzie kook. Google is run by Jews. You have a snow
flake's chance in hell, just like the rest of you impotent muzzies!
LOL!!!
Don't youz mean a foreskin's chance in Tel Aviv, raghead?
Post by Gary Rumain
And pislam is a religious death cult so where is the racism, you lying
sack of muzzie shit?
Post by ARMENIAN PROPAGANDA, NO THANKS!
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
You have been abuse reported to Google at
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/abuse
! In his messages this person calls the prophet of Islam
! "mad", "pedophile", "dirty pig", "murderous terrorist", "thief" etc.
!
! Delete such unacceptable racistic messages and don't allow your users to post such crap!
k***@yahoo.com
2006-05-10 20:06:00 UTC
Permalink
STOP! STOP!

I cannot let you sully the name of the false prophet MoooHa-Ha-MUD!

Instead, I sentence you to memorize the 99 names of Allagh- Alle- Allah
as punishment!

Start now!


Mickey Mouse, Adolf Hitler, Moe, Curley, Larry, Goofy, G.W. Bush, Joe
Stalin, Bluto, Satan, Captain Marvel, Caligula, Huey, Dewey, Louie,
Hermann Goering, Pol Pot, Willie Winky, Bozo, Lord George Germaine,
Karl Rove, Jacques Strapp, Beelzebub, Jayne Mansfield, Saddam Hussein,
Percy P. Pisspocket, I.P. Freely, Mary Magdalene, Zacarias Moussaoui,
Hirohito, George Tenet, Karl Schwitters, Pontius Pilate, Zeppo Marx,
Tom Mix, Osman I, Al Capone, Daffy Duck, John Fartlington Poopnagel,
Dick Cheney, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Porky Pig, Fatty Arbuckle, Jenny
Lind, Ty Cobb, P.T. Barnum, Krazy Kat, Nero, Colonel Sanders, Marilyn
Manson, Cheech, Chong, Annie Oakley, Fidel Castro, Gabby Hayes, Marion
Barry, Bugs Bunny, Richard Lion Heart, Mata Hari, W.C. Fields, Adolf
Eichmann, Jesus Christ, Tiny Tim, Napoleon Bonaparte, Reza Pahlavi,
Godzilla, Broca, Marjorie Maine, Al Jolson, Dave Garroway, Ronald
McDonald, John Wilkes Booth, Nostradamus, Joseph Goebbels, Percy
Kilbride, Pluto, Mao Tse-tung, Clement Attlee, Ol' Dirty Bastard,
Carole Landis, Beelzebub, Atilla the Hun, Jack Benny, Idi Amin Dada,
Charles Nelson Riley, Tweety Bird, Jo-Jo The Dog Faced Boy, Donald
Rumsfeld, Belle Starr, Charles Manson.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-10 21:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
erikc
2006-05-11 00:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
Doesn't matter what the paedophile profit-making prophet did back in the 7th
century. The human race has advanced since them and all the shit that asshole
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.


Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
2006-05-11 02:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
Doesn't matter what the paedophile profit-making prophet did back in the 7th
century. The human race has advanced since them and all the shit that asshole
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
No Sir, the Christian religion has lead to the NAZI regime.
This was only 60+ years ago...
And the worst of all religions is the Orthodox, which is
just another, worser, form of Christian religion.
IMO the Christian religions are more dangerous than Islam.
BTW, I'm a believing Turkish atheist. The hell is my fate! :-)))
Panta Rhei
2006-05-11 03:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
Doesn't matter what the paedophile profit-making prophet did back in the 7th
century. The human race has advanced since them and all the shit that asshole
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
No Sir, the Christian religion has lead to the NAZI regime.
This was only 60+ years ago...
And the worst of all religions is the Orthodox, which is
just another, worser, form of Christian religion.
IMO the Christian religions are more dangerous than Islam.
BTW, I'm a believing Turkish atheist. The hell is my fate! :-)))
Just tell him that you are Turk! He will know what the matter is with you,
depraved one! <BG>
erikc
2006-05-11 19:15:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 May 2006 04:21:34 +0200, "ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!"
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
Doesn't matter what the paedophile profit-making prophet did back in the 7th
century. The human race has advanced since them and all the shit that asshole
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
No Sir, the Christian religion has lead to the NAZI regime.
This was only 60+ years ago...
And the worst of all religions is the Orthodox, which is
just another, worser, form of Christian religion.
IMO the Christian religions are more dangerous than Islam.
BTW, I'm a believing Turkish atheist. The hell is my fate! :-)))
What makes you think I care for christerism either. It's all bullshit and it
all kills people.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 07:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
erikc
2006-05-14 20:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.


Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 08:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
Molly
2006-05-15 08:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will

Molly
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 09:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?

You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
Post by Molly
Molly
Ben Cramer
2006-05-15 09:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
What Molly's saying, is that they're both bullshit.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 10:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
What Molly's saying, is that they're both bullshit.
How does she know that we don't know?
Can she teach us how she knows?
If she knows then she should be able to tell us how she knows and
accordingly we would know as well. Otherwise, we wouldn't call it
knowledge, then we would call it bullshit.
erikc
2006-05-15 17:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
What Molly's saying, is that they're both bullshit.
How does she know that we don't know?
Can she teach us how she knows?
If she knows then she should be able to tell us how she knows and
accordingly we would know as well. Otherwise, we wouldn't call it
knowledge, then we would call it bullshit.
This is all that Joe Sixpack needs to know about Islam:

It was created by a crazy man who cared only about money and stuff, amassing
power, killing people and where he could shove his dick. And the gang of
savage psychopaths that he led propagated his diabolical teachings unto the
present day.

Islam destroys civilisation. Persia, Greece, Egypt, India, etc. You fuckers
were thrown out of Europe once already, I hope todays Europeans do the right
thing and kick all your asses back to whatever spider hole you crawled out of.
The Americans should do the same, and right now, that is the general attitude
there.

You might have been a human being at one time, but exposure to Islam (since
birth?) has reduced you to a feral, predatory state incompatable with
civilisation, or even normal human association.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
2006-05-15 18:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
What Molly's saying, is that they're both bullshit.
How does she know that we don't know?
Can she teach us how she knows?
If she knows then she should be able to tell us how she knows and
accordingly we would know as well. Otherwise, we wouldn't call it
knowledge, then we would call it bullshit.
It was created by a crazy man who cared only about money and stuff, amassing
power, killing people and where he could shove his dick. And the gang of
savage psychopaths that he led propagated his diabolical teachings unto the
present day.
Islam destroys civilisation. Persia, Greece, Egypt, India, etc.
Don't forget what the Christians did in South and North America.
Or the dictorship of the Christian Church in the "Middle Age",
Inquisition etc. Not to forget what kind of crimes Christian people
were able: NAZI crimes!
And, Orthodox Christianity is the worst of all religions as this religion
is full of animalistic hate and racism against other people.
In summary: the Christian Church was more harmful than Islam.


<racistic BS of this guy deleted>
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 20:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
What Molly's saying, is that they're both bullshit.
How does she know that we don't know?
Can she teach us how she knows?
If she knows then she should be able to tell us how she knows and
accordingly we would know as well. Otherwise, we wouldn't call it
knowledge, then we would call it bullshit.
erikc!
you are talking out of topic...
the questions we have here is about how Molly knows what she believes
in. Did we ask her what she knows about Islam? No. So, don't distort
our arguments with your mumblings about Islam. I know we put your
bullshit back to you and it is hard to swallow it, but you asked for
it;->>If you are short of saying anything meaningful, then shut up and
listen! That's what a man who uses intellect should do, so that perhaps
he learn something to find the way out of the bottle he is in rather
than keep bumping his head on the glass like a fly;->>
Molly
2006-05-15 09:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.seems like most of you never will
Molly!
are you saying that you have lost your capability to compare two text
together to distinguish truth from falsehood?
You grew up;-> do you know what do you believe in now?
Tell us all bout it. Why would you think that what you believe in
nowadays any different than your old superstitions? Tell us what makes
you so sure that what you believe in now is not superstition?
Post by Molly
Molly
I believe in myself .not what some pastor or pope or imam tells me Am
Ispiritual..yes I am but I don't believe in fairy tales Trust man to
take something as precious as ones spirituality and twist it into
complete nonsense
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 09:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Molly
I believe in myself .not what some pastor or pope or imam tells me Am
Ispiritual..yes I am but I don't believe in fairy tales Trust man to
take something as precious as ones spirituality and twist it into
complete nonsense
tel us Molly how? what do you believe in yourself? How do you know
"yourself"?
Would you believe in people who are more experienced then yourself in
this "being spritual" than yourself? How do you know that nothing
distorts "yourself"? Your educational back ground? Your friends and
peers? Your environment? TV, magazines, novels, fairy tales, day to day
habits, the food you consume? Internet? How do you distinguish "fairy
tale" from non-fairy tale? If I bring you two text one from a fairy
tale one revealed verse of the God, would you be able to distinguish
one from the other? If I bring you a theory and a chapter form the
Revealed Book of the God, would you be able to distinguish one from the
other? How? Teach us, if you can know it then we would also be able to
know it.
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
2006-05-15 11:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.
Did u!?

How old are you now big girl?
Post by Molly
seems like most of you never will
Molly
Molly
2006-05-15 11:59:23 UTC
Permalink
On 15 May 2006 04:48:14 -0700, "???? ?? ?? ??? ????
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.
Did u!?
How old are you now big girl?
Old enough to be your grandmother
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
seems like most of you never will
Molly
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
2006-05-15 13:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Molly
On 15 May 2006 04:48:14 -0700, "???? ?? ?? ??? ????
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.
Did u!?
How old are you now big girl?
Old enough to be your grandmother
R U realy?

let me see, My father was in his 50s when I was born. My mother was 13
years younger. To be my grandparent, you'd need to be over 100 years
old.

r u?

I did not realised that u have passed ur "sell-by-date". How very
interesting. I had reserved a couple of camels and a Goat for u
specially:-)
Post by Molly
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
seems like most of you never will
Molly
erikc
2006-05-15 17:34:06 UTC
Permalink
On 15 May 2006 06:15:56 -0700, "???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?:=¦¤¦U?§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||"
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
On 15 May 2006 04:48:14 -0700, "???? ?? ?? ??? ????
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Molly
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
The Bible The Quran..Whats the difference?.. Its all superstitious
nonsence. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but
then I grew up.
Did u!?
How old are you now big girl?
Old enough to be your grandmother
R U realy?
let me see, My father was in his 50s when I was born. My mother was 13
years younger. To be my grandparent, you'd need to be over 100 years
old.
How old was your mother? Nine?
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
r u?
I did not realised that u have passed ur "sell-by-date". How very
interesting. I had reserved a couple of camels and a Goat for u
specially:-)
Keep them for yourself and use them to relieve yourself the way your prophet
Mohammad did.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 20:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Molly
Old enough to be your grandmother
Molly, don't be scared of getting old, but to die...
erikc
2006-05-15 17:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
It is a defective book, full of intolerance, hate and lies. Many muslims who
come to western countries lose thier religion. They become christians, jews,
hindus, etc, or even atheists. I have seen this with my own eyes and even
helped a couple of them rejoin the human race.

People like Ali Sina and Ibn Warraq have blown the whistle on islam by
standing up and calling it what it is -- the religion of hell, created by
satan, to rule demons. Thier scholarship is impeccable; you should read them.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/102-2911625-1941709?search-alias=aps&keywords=ibn%20warraq

www.faithfreedom.org

Read and learn the truth about the diabolical death cult you so vigorously
defend.


Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 20:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
did is now either considered a crime or a crime against humanity in all
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
erikc don't bullshit us bring your book!
unless you come to us with a better book the Messenger of the God
brought us from the God, we _wiil not_ be impressed by your doings. So
cut the crap bring your book so that we can compare it with ours to
show the truth and reality.
You already have the book. You call it qu'ran.
Yes, we already have the Book called the Qur'an! An Open Book, if you
had accepted it, it would also be your book.
We are asking your book that you seem to keep quoting here from it,
modifying it as you go along. Bring it in so that we can compare our
them to establish the truth and reality.
erikc!
Bring your book, if you are truthful!
Post by erikc
It is a defective book, full of intolerance, hate and lies. Many muslims who
come to western countries lose thier religion. They become christians, jews,
hindus, etc, or even atheists. I have seen this with my own eyes and even
helped a couple of them rejoin the human race.
of course they do, because in those countries the religion of the
nation is established by the constitution fo the country. That is what
religion according to the Qur'an. For example do you think that your
religion is the religion of Moses? No Mate, your religion is the
religion established with all institutions, laws, regulations according
to the constitution of the country you are living in. Otherwise, you
would be really in open conflict with the security forces organised
according to the same constitution to protect this established religion
(establishment). So, when you talk about your religion, talk inthose
terms, don't bullshit me what you sing in the synagogue to masturbate
with your religion in your spare time, while you dedicate your life
completely to the religion(laws) of your country,
Post by erikc
People like Ali Sina and Ibn Warraq have blown the whistle on islam by
standing up and calling it what it is -- the religion of hell, created by
satan, to rule demons. Thier scholarship is impeccable; you should read them.
you don't know anything about Satan, and he doesn't know anything about
Satan. All your and their knowledge about Satan is just a degenerate
version of it as it is told in the Qur'an, if you don't believe me
bring your Satan, or Ali Sina's, Ibn Warrq's Satan and let us compare
our Satans, to see who tells the truth. You also don't know how the
word "religion" is used in the Qur'an. Therefore you are barking at the
wrong tree!

I know you won't bring your Satan, because you are scared of him that
he will make you lose this challenge of contest. Your Satan against
mine, how about that, let's make a beauty contest;->RO(T/F)L

You guys are bosh, and Satan plays with you like you are a
playdough;->>>
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 18:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
civilised nations??!!

let me give you an example of laws from your civilised nations;->

one cannot arrange marriges with her 6 years old doughter, but one can
drill the un-born baby from their mothers...

erikc speak as much as you book allows, if you don't have a book yet
then go obtain one!
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 20:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!

to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 20:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
I should say;->>

Ula erkco-meric!

to stick your dick into your mate's ass is _natural_ and legal and to
arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L

Satan make me forget the _natural_ part ;->>>
erikc
2006-05-15 17:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
I should say;->>
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is _natural_ and legal and to
arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
Satan make me forget the _natural_ part ;->>>
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
2006-05-15 19:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
I should say;->>
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is _natural_ and legal and to
arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
Satan make me forget the _natural_ part ;->>>
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.
You have been reported to ***@supernews.com for your
such obscene language and discrimination of others.
Enjoy!
gogu
2006-05-15 21:10:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
I should say;->>
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is _natural_ and legal and to
arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
Satan make me forget the _natural_ part ;->>>
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.
such obscene language and discrimination of others.
Enjoy!
LOL LOL LOL LOL
Haven't you learned your lesson from the multiple rejections you had from
the various ISPs you have complained my little fascist TURK?;-)
Do you *really* think you can scare people with your complain BS?!
Boy, you are *really* pathetic!
But hey, that's no news, you are one of those Turkish fascists, so no
wonder;-)
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
SHIT THE DUMB JURK
2006-05-15 23:22:47 UTC
Permalink
CROSS-POSTING SPAMMER GOGU LIKES ALL HIS TROLL POSTS TO END UP BACK IN
HIS HOME NEWSGROUP

REC.COLLECTING.COINS
Post by gogu
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by erikc
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
civilised nations. YOU ARE THE ONES THAT GOT LEFT BEHIND.
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is legal and to arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
I should say;->>
Ula erkco-meric!
to stick your dick into your mate's ass is _natural_ and legal and to
arrange
marriages is not legal and you call this civilised, is that
it;->RO(T/F)L
Satan make me forget the _natural_ part ;->>>
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.
such obscene language and discrimination of others.
Enjoy!
LOL LOL LOL LOL
Haven't you learned your lesson from the multiple rejections you had from
the various ISPs you have complained my little fascist TURK?;-)
Do you *really* think you can scare people with your complain BS?!
Boy, you are *really* pathetic!
But hey, that's no news, you are one of those Turkish fascists, so no
wonder;-)
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
Panta Rhei
2006-05-15 23:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by SHIT THE DUMB JURK
CROSS-POSTING SPAMMER GOGU LIKES ALL HIS TROLL POSTS TO END UP BACK IN
HIS HOME NEWSGROUP
REC.COLLECTING.COINS
Any success so far with your pleas on Usenet, you poor idiot of a Turk?
Doesn't look like it! <BG>

BTW, oaf: rcc removed again, of course! AWWW! Did I spoil your stupid game
again? LMAO! Poor, suffering sod!


IMPERSONATION ALERT!

Retarded troll Weenie Beanie has to adopt the name of his MASTER "gogu"
again who beats the shit out him EVERY DAY!

It's his only way to cope with his FEARS and HUMILIATION inflicted on him
by gogu! LOL!
--
Living the life of a ridiculed, bitchslapped loony on usenet helps Beanie
Tinfoil forget the failures in his life.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 07:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.
whoever disobeys the orders of the God, he/she will be punished in this
World and in Hereafter.
Ben Cramer
2006-05-16 10:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
Speaking of sticking dicks in asses, I heard that you guys like to do that
when there are no women, children, or animals around.
whoever disobeys the orders of the God, he/she will be punished in this
World and in Hereafter.
Which god? There's hundreds of the fuckers.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 10:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god?
the God of Abraham
the God of Muhammed
the God of Moses
the God of Jesus
the God you will be returned
the God who owns the Earth and the Heavens
the Merciful One
the Forgiving One
the Real Rular
the Owner of the Day of Judgement
the One Who created everything with a measure and term
the One Who is not born and not given birth
the One and Only
the rest is no-god
Gary Rumain
2006-05-11 03:32:06 UTC
Permalink
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
He also forced his son to divorce one of his wives so he could marry
her instead.

What a fine, upstanding example for other muzzies to follow. And the
dirty pig was a messenger of allah, the moon goddess. He was an
epilectic kook who made his shit up as he went along. As soon as he had
trouble, he'd have a vision telling him he was right.

What a lowlife sack of shit he was!
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Not only was mad mo a pedophile but the dirty pig was a murderous
terrorist and thief too.
actually the filth is in your mind fed by your degenerate culture.
The truth is the Messenger of the God married to his closest friend's
daughter, mainly his friend wanted to set a strong family relationship
with him. And the Prophet lived with her as a married husband till he
died. Now check up with your dad why he deserted you even if ever
married to your mum under the protection of the Civil Law at the age of
from 18+.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-11 19:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
in your criminal records have you seen a pedophile who married his
victim and live happy there after till he dies?

Nothing, but nothing touches to the Messenger of the God from your
slanderings, they only display how lowly creeper you are, but don't
give up to discover the reality because the religion of the Prophet was
the reality. And of course get ready for the Grand Judgement, keep
collecting evidence to back your slanders if you can and be sure you
will be judged properly by the Excellent Judge.
Gary Rumain
2006-05-12 01:55:43 UTC
Permalink
What do you mean "in my criminal records"?

You'd better start doing some reading -

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terrorists/fugitives.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/jeff_ws.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/homepage.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm

Now, lets see you deny that Warren Jeffs and mad mo weren't one and the
same personality-wise. Because the only liar around here is you. I know
exactly what type of scumbag that dirty pig was. That poor girl must
have gone through hell, all the constant rapes, the beatings, the
brainwashing, etc. until the dirty pig died and she was finally free -
because she could never be free otherwise. The dirty pig would have
killed her if she tried to excape.
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
in your criminal records have you seen a pedophile who married his
victim and live happy there after till he dies?
Nothing, but nothing touches to the Messenger of the God from your
slanderings, they only display how lowly creeper you are, but don't
give up to discover the reality because the religion of the Prophet was
the reality. And of course get ready for the Grand Judgement, keep
collecting evidence to back your slanders if you can and be sure you
will be judged properly by the Excellent Judge.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 07:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
What do you mean "in my criminal records"?
You'd better start doing some reading -
Now, lets see you deny that Warren Jeffs and mad mo weren't one and the
same personality-wise. Because the only liar around here is you. I know
oh yeah I am the liar, and you are the judge without proof.
Post by Gary Rumain
exactly what type of scumbag that dirty pig was. That poor girl must
have gone through hell, all the constant rapes, the beatings, the
beatings...
Post by Gary Rumain
brainwashing, etc. until the dirty pig died and she was finally free -
brain washing...
Post by Gary Rumain
because she could never be free otherwise. The dirty pig would have
killed her if she tried to excape.
that is a case but it doesn't sound like the one you have at hand
according to several reliable sources, you are not going to judge
someone with non similar examples would you?

You guys have no case, you just masturbate with you imaginations here,
what a waste, you could use your time for better things like using
intellect to discover the truth and reality.

we would really like to know according to what you could judge the
Messengers of the God. Let me guess;->
According to the mythology of your Founding Fathers?
Or according to the mythology of antient Greeks, Romans?
According to a book that you have received from the God?
According to Bible?
According to Torah?

I say bring your book!
Gary Rumain
2006-05-12 14:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?

All the info you need is online here -
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/topics/author.html
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
What do you mean "in my criminal records"?
You'd better start doing some reading -
Now, lets see you deny that Warren Jeffs and mad mo weren't one and the
same personality-wise. Because the only liar around here is you. I know
oh yeah I am the liar, and you are the judge without proof.
Post by Gary Rumain
exactly what type of scumbag that dirty pig was. That poor girl must
have gone through hell, all the constant rapes, the beatings, the
beatings...
Post by Gary Rumain
brainwashing, etc. until the dirty pig died and she was finally free -
brain washing...
Post by Gary Rumain
because she could never be free otherwise. The dirty pig would have
killed her if she tried to excape.
that is a case but it doesn't sound like the one you have at hand
according to several reliable sources, you are not going to judge
someone with non similar examples would you?
You guys have no case, you just masturbate with you imaginations here,
what a waste, you could use your time for better things like using
intellect to discover the truth and reality.
we would really like to know according to what you could judge the
Messengers of the God. Let me guess;->
According to the mythology of your Founding Fathers?
Or according to the mythology of antient Greeks, Romans?
According to a book that you have received from the God?
According to Bible?
According to Torah?
I say bring your book!
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 18:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".

Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
2006-05-12 18:53:25 UTC
Permalink
FYI: God does not have an article, so leave out the "the"...
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 19:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
FYI: God does not have an article, so leave out the "the"...
your god has no article to distinguish it from non-gods, our god is The
God.
and they are (your gods) no god except the God (Our God). So bear the
article in your modern english, I put it there, it will stay there.
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
2006-05-14 06:19:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
FYI: God does not have an article, so leave out the "the"...
your god has no article to distinguish it from non-gods, our god is The
God.
and they are (your gods) no god except the God (Our God). So bear the
article in your modern english, I put it there, it will stay there.
IMO, what you say does not make sense.
Anyway, then tell us what article to be used in the German language for "Gott".
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-14 07:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
FYI: God does not have an article, so leave out the "the"...
your god has no article to distinguish it from non-gods, our god is The
God.
and they are (your gods) no god except the God (Our God). So bear the
article in your modern english, I put it there, it will stay there.
IMO, what you say does not make sense.
Anyway, then tell us what article to be used in the German language for "Gott".
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-14 07:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
FYI: God does not have an article, so leave out the "the"...
your god has no article to distinguish it from non-gods, our god is The
God.
and they are (your gods) no god except the God (Our God). So bear the
article in your modern english, I put it there, it will stay there.
IMO, what you say does not make sense.
Anyway, then tell us what article to be used in the German language for "Gott".
whatever is the definite article which doesn't suggest gender, most
probably "Das", or simply you can say Gott of
Muhammed/Muslims/Moses/Jesus/Abraham/Adam. Ask Germans they may give
you a better answer. If they don't have any meaningful article then
perhaps they should invent one just to translate the Qur'an into their
language properly.
Gary Rumain
2006-05-13 01:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Why don't you prove it then?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-13 08:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
Why don't you prove it then?
Gary!

if you knew what a "proof" is you wouldn't formulate your claim like
you did...

you would rather say;->

"Why don't you prove it according to such and such then?"

so, I suggest you reconsider your question according to the laws of
logic if you are really after the proof. You can also cosult to a
friend who knows logic if you are not that well versed in the subject
and recompose your question.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Gary Rumain
2006-05-13 13:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Why should I when I know I'm dealing with a muzzie idiot who doesn't
know the first thing about logic?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Why don't you prove it then?
Gary!
if you knew what a "proof" is you wouldn't formulate your claim like
you did...
you would rather say;->
"Why don't you prove it according to such and such then?"
so, I suggest you reconsider your question according to the laws of
logic if you are really after the proof. You can also cosult to a
friend who knows logic if you are not that well versed in the subject
and recompose your question.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
2006-05-13 13:44:15 UTC
Permalink
parasite alert!

This is a public announcement service.
Post by Gary Rumain
Why should I when I know I'm dealing with a muzzie idiot who doesn't
know the first thing about logic?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Why don't you prove it then?
Gary!
if you knew what a "proof" is you wouldn't formulate your claim like
you did...
you would rather say;->
"Why don't you prove it according to such and such then?"
so, I suggest you reconsider your question according to the laws of
logic if you are really after the proof. You can also cosult to a
friend who knows logic if you are not that well versed in the subject
and recompose your question.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Gary Rumain
2006-05-13 13:53:40 UTC
Permalink
muzzie alert!

اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
parasite alert!
This is a public announcement service.
Post by Gary Rumain
Why should I when I know I'm dealing with a muzzie idiot who doesn't
know the first thing about logic?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Why don't you prove it then?
Gary!
if you knew what a "proof" is you wouldn't formulate your claim like
you did...
you would rather say;->
"Why don't you prove it according to such and such then?"
so, I suggest you reconsider your question according to the laws of
logic if you are really after the proof. You can also cosult to a
friend who knows logic if you are not that well versed in the subject
and recompose your question.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-13 22:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
muzzie alert!
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
there is nothing to be alerted, the true transalation of the above
declaration is should _not_ to be:

"there is no god except Allah"

but it should be:->

"they are not god except the God (Al-Ilah) is god"

there is no existence assertion here, this is just a definition of the
God that what everthing you call god - it is not except the God is god.
that is how it should be translated into english. This existence
concept is later on introduced into arabic language as
"vujood/mevjood/etc" from the greek philosophical works. This concept
"exist" creates a lot of philosophical problems when it is used in
relation to the God. It is meaningless to treat the God as a thing,
while He declares in the Qur'an that all things are created by the God
with a measure and a term. How can one imagine a god restricted with a
term and a measure - yes you can imagine but that is not god, for there
is none like the God.
Post by Gary Rumain
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
you don't need to get alarmed or alerted I am not rejecting the above
expression but I definitely reject its translations as declared above.
I don't belive a god who exists like a thing He created can
exist/non-exist.

it is utterly nonsense to say "the God exists" or "the God doesn't
exist".
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
2006-05-13 22:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
muzzie alert!
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
there is nothing to be alerted, the true transalation of the above
"there is no god except Allah"
but it should be:->
"they are not god except the God (Al-Ilah) is god"
The literal translation is :اشهد ان I give witness [that[ لا
اله الاﷲ there is no god but "the god"!
Post by Grand Sen~or
there is no existence assertion here, this is just a definition of the
God that what everthing you call god - it is not except the God is god.
that is how it should be translated into english. This existence
concept is later on introduced into arabic language as
"vujood/mevjood/etc" from the greek philosophical works. This concept
"exist" creates a lot of philosophical problems when it is used in
relation to the God. It is meaningless to treat the God as a thing,
while He declares in the Qur'an that all things are created by the God
with a measure and a term. How can one imagine a god restricted with a
term and a measure - yes you can imagine but that is not god, for there
is none like the God.
Post by Gary Rumain
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
you don't need to get alarmed or alerted I am not rejecting the above
expression but I definitely reject its translations as declared above.
I don't belive a god who exists like a thing He created can
exist/non-exist.
it is utterly nonsense to say "the God exists" or "the God doesn't
exist".
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-14 03:17:20 UTC
Permalink
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
The literal translation is :اشهد ان I give witness [that[ لا
اله الاﷲ there is no god but "the god"!
no that is not the literal transaltion of it, it should read like that:
la=no
ilah=god
illa=except
Allah=the God
and the literal translation is:->
no god except Allah

there is no "there is" here in the arabic phrase.

imagine yourself to shop for the God, you come to market and sales
persons show you a sample of gods

you like this one "Moon! Nice nad shiny"
you say "la! this is not the god I am looking for"
then he tries the sun which is brighter than the Moon...
you still say "la no god, don't cheat me!"
he then brings the light "how about that one?"
you say "la this is coming fron that source, why would I accept it as
the God while I rejected the source as a god? Are you trying to cheat
me?"
he thinks that you are a though customer, he tries once more, he says
"How about Nature?!"
"Nature?! is just a collections of commands in action, bring me the one
who made those commands and who supervises them"
and your sales person gives up and says "you bring it to me I'll buy
it!"
and you respond "would you really?"
he says "Yes, why not? I know the market none can bring such a god"
and you supply him the Book of the God saying "He, only He Himself
supply a Book like that to reveal himself to you, buy it or leave it,
if you can bring anay better-similar Book from Him then I promise I
will by it from you, now bring your book if you are a truthful salesman
of the God!"

you see it is somehow like buying computers, but not exactly;->RO(T/F)L
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
2006-05-15 16:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
The literal translation is :اشهد ان I give witness [that[ لا
اله الاﷲ there is no god but "the god"!
la=no
ilah=god
illa=except
Allah=the God
and the literal translation is:->
no god except Allah
U missed the part that says اشهد ان which means: I give witness
that!
btw, do u?
Post by Gary Rumain
there is no "there is" here in the arabic phrase.
imagine yourself to shop for the God, you come to market and sales
persons show you a sample of gods
you like this one "Moon! Nice nad shiny"
you say "la! this is not the god I am looking for"
then he tries the sun which is brighter than the Moon...
you still say "la no god, don't cheat me!"
he then brings the light "how about that one?"
you say "la this is coming fron that source, why would I accept it as
the God while I rejected the source as a god? Are you trying to cheat
me?"
he thinks that you are a though customer, he tries once more, he says
"How about Nature?!"
"Nature?! is just a collections of commands in action, bring me the one
who made those commands and who supervises them"
and your sales person gives up and says "you bring it to me I'll buy
it!"
and you respond "would you really?"
he says "Yes, why not? I know the market none can bring such a god"
and you supply him the Book of the God saying "He, only He Himself
supply a Book like that to reveal himself to you, buy it or leave it,
if you can bring anay better-similar Book from Him then I promise I
will by it from you, now bring your book if you are a truthful salesman
of the God!"
you see it is somehow like buying computers, but not exactly;->RO(T/F)L
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-15 20:56:09 UTC
Permalink
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Gary Rumain
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
The literal translation is :اشهد ان I give witness [that[ لا
اله الاﷲ there is no god but "the god"!
la=no
ilah=god
illa=except
Allah=the God
and the literal translation is:->
no god except Allah
U missed the part that says اشهد ان which means: I give witness
I didn't miss that, it wasn't in my original message, but you asked I
will add it to my translation as you except it, which will change
nothing from my translation and you will still owe an appology to us!

I wittness that: no god except Allah and Muhammed is the Messenger of
Allah

Ula Acemi, When Allah asks you this question in Hereafter:
"Where is "there is" in the Qur'an "la ilahe illallah"?".

Then what will you answer?
Give your answer here, don't run away like a liar!

Do _not_ distort the message of the God!
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
that!
btw, do u?
you wouldn't understand my answerm because you don't know what it means
in the first place. So, let us agree on the transalation first that you
understand what it means without suspicion then ask such questions.
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
Post by Gary Rumain
there is no "there is" here in the arabic phrase.
imagine yourself to shop for the God, you come to market and sales
persons show you a sample of gods
you like this one "Moon! Nice nad shiny"
you say "la! this is not the god I am looking for"
then he tries the sun which is brighter than the Moon...
you still say "la no god, don't cheat me!"
he then brings the light "how about that one?"
you say "la this is coming fron that source, why would I accept it as
the God while I rejected the source as a god? Are you trying to cheat
me?"
he thinks that you are a though customer, he tries once more, he says
"How about Nature?!"
"Nature?! is just a collections of commands in action, bring me the one
who made those commands and who supervises them"
and your sales person gives up and says "you bring it to me I'll buy
it!"
and you respond "would you really?"
he says "Yes, why not? I know the market none can bring such a god"
and you supply him the Book of the God saying "He, only He Himself
supply a Book like that to reveal himself to you, buy it or leave it,
if you can bring anay better-similar Book from Him then I promise I
will by it from you, now bring your book if you are a truthful salesman
of the God!"
you see it is somehow like buying computers, but not exactly;->RO(T/F)L
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-14 03:19:46 UTC
Permalink
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
The literal translation is :اشهد ان I give witness [that[ لا
اله الاﷲ there is no god but "the god"!
no that is not the literal transaltion of it, it should read like that:
la=no
ilah=god
illa=except
Allah=the God
and the literal translation is:->
no god except Allah

there is no "there is" here in the arabic phrase.

imagine yourself to shop for the God, you come to market and sales
persons show you a sample of gods

you like this one "Moon! Nice nad shiny"
you say "la! this is not the god I am looking for"
then he tries the sun which is brighter than the Moon...
you still say "la no god, don't cheat me!"
he then brings the light "how about that one?"
you say "la this is coming fron that source, why would I accept it as
the God while I rejected the source as a god? Are you trying to cheat
me?"
he thinks that you are a though customer, he tries once more, he says
"How about Nature?!"
"Nature?! is just a collections of commands in action, bring me the one
who made those commands and who supervises them"
and your sales person gives up and says "you bring it to me I'll buy
it!"
and you respond "would you really?"
he says "Yes, why not? I know the market none can bring such a god"
and you supply him the Book of the God saying "He, only He Himself
supply a Book like that to reveal himself to you, buy it or leave it,
if you can bring anay better-similar Book from Him then I promise I
will by it from you, now bring your book if you are a truthful salesman
of the God!"

you see it is somehow like buying computers, but not exactly;->RO(T/F)L
erikc
2006-05-15 17:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Where did god come from?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
muzzie alert!
???? ?? ?? ??? ????
there is nothing to be alerted, the true transalation of the above
"there is no god except Allah"
but it should be:->
"they are not god except the God (Al-Ilah) is god"
there is no existence assertion here, this is just a definition of the
God that what everthing you call god - it is not except the God is god.
that is how it should be translated into english. This existence
concept is later on introduced into arabic language as
"vujood/mevjood/etc" from the greek philosophical works. This concept
"exist" creates a lot of philosophical problems when it is used in
relation to the God. It is meaningless to treat the God as a thing,
while He declares in the Qur'an that all things are created by the God
with a measure and a term. How can one imagine a god restricted with a
term and a measure - yes you can imagine but that is not god, for there
is none like the God.
Post by Gary Rumain
???? ?? ?? ??? ????
you don't need to get alarmed or alerted I am not rejecting the above
expression but I definitely reject its translations as declared above.
I don't belive a god who exists like a thing He created can
exist/non-exist.
it is utterly nonsense to say "the God exists" or "the God doesn't
exist".
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 08:00:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
Where did god come from?
good question erikc if and only you could meaningfully assert "the god
exist/non-exist".
only for things that the God created one can say exist/non-exist, or
ask questions like where did it/she/he come from, where will it/she/he
will go?
Perhaps you may ask your question about your god which is no-god for
me, therefore I don't care where did your no-god come from or will go.

if someone gives an answer to your question at all, just reject such a
non-god as false!
erikc!
I do not believe in such a non-god, now bring me another one of
yours;->RO(T/F)L
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-14 08:18:03 UTC
Permalink
اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ
۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X||| wrote:

ula Acemi!
it looks like you don't know what banner means. After that if I were in
your boots I would change it to "Acemi". You owe muslims an appology
for your false alert!
Post by اشهد ان لا اله الاﷲ ۞:=╠☼╣Ǚ∑§â€IÐ_SBR_­X|||
parasite alert!
This is a public announcement service.
Post by Gary Rumain
Why should I when I know I'm dealing with a muzzie idiot who doesn't
know the first thing about logic?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Why don't you prove it then?
Gary!
if you knew what a "proof" is you wouldn't formulate your claim like
you did...
you would rather say;->
"Why don't you prove it according to such and such then?"
so, I suggest you reconsider your question according to the laws of
logic if you are really after the proof. You can also cosult to a
friend who knows logic if you are not that well versed in the subject
and recompose your question.
Post by Gary Rumain
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
Well then, let's pass judgement on the koran. You muzzies claim its the
word of allah, the moon goddess. If that's so, why then doesn't she
talk in the first person in the koran?
this is because the God is not some thing, the God is the creator of
all things, therefore you cannot eveb say maeningfully "the God
exists/doesn't exist".
because one can talk about exist/non-exist only in relation to things
that created by the God.
Muslims don't declare that the God is she/he, but because of the
limitations of english you may use she/he/it as you wish.
Muslims also do not say Allah (the God) is the Moon God/Goddess but
what they say as thought by the Qur'an is "the God is the creator of
the Heavens and the Earth, He/She is the Owner of the Heavens and the
Earth".
Muslims do not "they are _no_ gods except the God"
"and the God is not born or gave birth and there is none comparable to
the God"
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 07:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
exactly what type of scumbag that dirty pig was. That poor girl must
don't bother swearing me I just ignore them, and read if you really say
something, so you better try to say something if you want me to respond
you. Otherwise I leave you in your swamp of language and nobody bothers
to save you from swallowing the shit you have piled around yourself. I
want to help you, don't refuse my streched hand, you have not much
choice;->RO(T/F)L
Gary Rumain
2006-05-12 14:24:25 UTC
Permalink
LOL!! Can you say that again? Even though you've replied twice to me
already. Only this time, can you say it in coherent English?
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
exactly what type of scumbag that dirty pig was. That poor girl must
don't bother swearing me I just ignore them, and read if you really say
something, so you better try to say something if you want me to respond
you. Otherwise I leave you in your swamp of language and nobody bothers
to save you from swallowing the shit you have piled around yourself. I
want to help you, don't refuse my streched hand, you have not much
choice;->RO(T/F)L
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 18:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary Rumain
LOL!! Can you say that again? Even though you've replied twice to me
already. Only this time, can you say it in coherent English?
I want to help you, don't refuse my stretched hand,
you have not much choice;->RO(T/F)L

T for Truth
F for False
Ben Cramer
2006-05-12 06:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
in your criminal records have you seen a pedophile who married his
victim and live happy there after till he dies?
The stinky yids have people called mohels (grown men) who continue to suck
the knob ends of little boys, to this day.

Deviant cunts.
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS!
2006-05-12 18:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
in your criminal records have you seen a pedophile who married his
victim and live happy there after till he dies?
The stinky yids have people called mohels (grown men) who continue to suck
the knob ends of little boys, to this day.
Deviant cunts.
Hey you dumb racist,
do you know the posting policy of netspace.net.au ?
***@otis.netspace.net.au has been informed.
Enjoy!
erikc
2006-05-12 20:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Gary Rumain
You're talking out of your muzzie ass. The truth is he was a pedophile.
in your criminal records have you seen a pedophile who married his
victim and live happy there after till he dies?
Nothing, but nothing touches to the Messenger of the God from your
slanderings, they only display how lowly creeper you are, but don't
give up to discover the reality because the religion of the Prophet was
the reality. And of course get ready for the Grand Judgement, keep
collecting evidence to back your slanders if you can and be sure you
will be judged properly by the Excellent Judge.
There is no "Excellent Judge" except the one in your mind. Your padeophile
prophet (PISS be on him) contributed nothing to this world but 1400 years of
misery and death and corruption that continues to this very day.

If Islam is not de-fanged and de-balled, then it will have to be de-stroyed.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-12 21:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
There is no "Excellent Judge" except the one in your mind.
not in my mind, but in an open Book that the God revealed His messages.
Post by erikc
If Islam ...... will have to be de-stroyed.
that was the aim for the last 1400 years - to de-stroy,
but you have de-stroyed nothing, besides you couldn't supply a similar
Book.
You guys are impotent liers, you can't keep your promises!
erikc
2006-05-15 17:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
There is no "Excellent Judge" except the one in your mind.
not in my mind, but in an open Book that the God revealed His messages.
Post by erikc
If Islam ...... will have to be de-stroyed.
that was the aim for the last 1400 years - to de-stroy,
but you have de-stroyed nothing, besides you couldn't supply a similar
Book.
You guys are impotent liers, you can't keep your promises!
No, we have just been pussyfooting around. You'll know when we are REALLY
pissed when the mushroom clouds start sprouting in dar-al-islam.

Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 08:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by erikc
pissed when the mushroom clouds start sprouting in dar-al-islam.
erikc!
mushrooms or not mushrooms we will all die and the God will question us
what we were doing with our mushrooms. And do you know what? None dies
unless the God permits.

actually I heard that type of threats from ex-USSR before chernobyl
that they were saying "we can bring Europe down to ashes!". Look what
happened to them and take lessons. Be careful by mistake those clouds
doesn't descend over Israel.
choro-nik
2006-05-16 08:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Grandee,

May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".

I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.

Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?

Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!

Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
pissed when the mushroom clouds start sprouting in dar-al-islam.
erikc!
mushrooms or not mushrooms we will all die and the God will question us
what we were doing with our mushrooms. And do you know what? None dies
unless the God permits.
actually I heard that type of threats from ex-USSR before chernobyl
that they were saying "we can bring Europe down to ashes!". Look what
happened to them and take lessons. Be careful by mistake those clouds
doesn't descend over Israel.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 09:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.

You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
choro-nik
2006-05-16 09:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Grandee,

This wasn't supposed to be giving you a chance to delve into God/s//Deity
but simply on your use of the definite article "the" every time you mention
"God". I believe it is grammatically wrong. You can talk of "the God" of the
Moslems/Christians/Jews etc but since you are claiming that there is only
ONE God then you should not refer to him as "the" God because if you do they
people may very well ask you to define your God. They have got the right to
ask you, "Which God?" as they are apt to.

We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.

I have capitalized God and He/Him out of deference to your religious views
as I am personally at best an agnostic, in truth an atheist. Because I
believe in mother nature and the laws of physics and chemistry

This is purely a case concerning the use of the definite article "the"
according to the rules of English grammar which of course changes the
concept of God with and without the definite article preceding it.
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 10:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
This wasn't supposed to be giving you a chance to delve into God/s//Deity
but simply on your use of the definite article "the" every time you mention
"God". I believe it is grammatically wrong. You can talk of "the God" of the
Moslems/Christians/Jews etc but since you are claiming that there is only
I am not claiming "there is only...." what I assert is "the God is god,
others no god"
Post by choro-nik
ONE God then you should not refer to him as "the" God because if you do they
people may very well ask you to define your God. They have got the right to
ask you, "Which God?" as they are apt to.
of course they will ask me "which god?"
and I will answer;-> The God fo Abraham, the God of Jesus, the God of
Muhammed, the God of Adam and Eve, the Owner of the Earth and the
Heavens, the Creator of everything with a measure and term, the One Who
is not born, Who doesn't give birth, the One I shall be returned, the
Real Ruler, the Mercyful, the Compassionate...etc.
Post by choro-nik
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
according to me others are no-god - exist/non-exist, but there are
millions out there assume millions of gods, to distinguish the God from
the assumed ones we say 'the God".
When Christians say "god" they mean three mother-son-father in one,
(perhaps that's why they cannot say the God) for me those are non-god
except the One and Only - the God.
Post by choro-nik
I have capitalized God and He/Him out of deference to your religious views
as I am personally at best an agnostic, in truth an atheist. Because I
believe in mother nature and the laws of physics and chemistry
for me those are non-god, the God is the One who impose the nature on
His creatures by his orders how can orders (you may call it physical
laws, program etc) be assumed as god?
Post by choro-nik
This is purely a case concerning the use of the definite article "the"
according to the rules of English grammar which of course changes the
concept of God with and without the definite article preceding it.
apparently English grammar is flexible enough to accomodate the
translation of Al-Ilah which should be translated as the God, not God,
because God is used by Christians as three in one mother-son-father
holy-spirit etc. Muslims reject such trio as non-god.
Post by choro-nik
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
gogu
2006-05-16 21:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
according to me others are no-god - exist/non-exist,
And probably for them your G-d is a ... non-G-d!
So what's your point?
Post by Grand Sen~or
but there are
millions out there assume millions of gods, to distinguish the God from
the assumed ones we say 'the God".
When Christians say "god" they mean three mother-son-father in one,
(perhaps that's why they cannot say the God) for me those are non-god
except the One and Only - the God.
Your lack of knowledge of the Christian faith is astonishing!
There is *NO* "mother G-d" in Christianity!
The Virgin Mary is *NOT* considered to be ... G-d in the Christian faith!
You are confusing Her with the ... Holly Spirit which is a totally different
entity!
When you don't know much about a thing it's better to keep silent...

And who said that we Christians can't say G-d?!
In every morning I say "Please G-d keep my family well, give me strength to
overcome the difficulties of life and to be a fair person".
How can you assert such BS that we can't say G-d?!
Post by Grand Sen~or
apparently English grammar is flexible enough to accomodate the
translation of Al-Ilah which should be translated as the God, not God,
because God is used by Christians as three in one mother-son-father
holy-spirit etc. Muslims reject such trio as non-god.
And I can retaliate by saying that Christians reject Mohamed and his G-d as
non-G-d, so
what's your point?...
Everyone says his G-d is the true one.

Your lack of knowledge of the Christian faith is astonishing!
There is *NO* "mother G-d" in Christianity!
The Virgin Mary is *NOT* considered to be ... G-d in the Christian faith!
You are confusing Her with the ... Holly Spirit which is a totally different
entity!
When you don't know much about a thing it's better to keep silent...
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
choro-nik
2006-05-17 03:19:07 UTC
Permalink
Our Grandee obviously made a mistake here in thinking that Virgin Mary was
part of the Holy Trinity which in a way is understandable in view of the
veneration with in she is held particularly in Catholic societies coupled
with the fact that she is highly venerated by Moslems as the mother of
Christ.

The following is from Encarta'99...

"Mary (Virgin Mary), also the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ,
venerated by Christians since apostolic times. Islam also venerates her as
the sinless virgin Maryan."

If I may be allowed to correct the Encarta entry, in Turkish she is referred
to as "Meryem Ana" (in some dialects pronounced as Meyrem Ana (note the
spelling and the pronunciation as opposed to the Encarta version of
Maryan). Meryem or Meyrem Ana means Mother Mary or Mother Miriam which is
the biblical equivalent of Mary.

In Turkish she is never referred to as "Virgin Meryem/Meyrem" though
according to the Koran she was a Virgin and all Moslems accept her as
"Virgin".

But wasn't it the Holy Ghost who was supposed to have impregnated Virgin
Mary with her son Jesus or "Isa" (which must stand for Isaac) as He is known
in Turkish?

I think you were a bit harsh on our Grandee. He is not such a bad soul,
really. He means well though, being a bit of an agnostic myself, I do tease
him from time to time.
--
choro-nik
*******
Post by gogu
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
according to me others are no-god - exist/non-exist,
And probably for them your G-d is a ... non-G-d!
So what's your point?
Post by Grand Sen~or
but there are
millions out there assume millions of gods, to distinguish the God from
the assumed ones we say 'the God".
When Christians say "god" they mean three mother-son-father in one,
(perhaps that's why they cannot say the God) for me those are non-god
except the One and Only - the God.
Your lack of knowledge of the Christian faith is astonishing!
There is *NO* "mother G-d" in Christianity!
The Virgin Mary is *NOT* considered to be ... G-d in the Christian faith!
You are confusing Her with the ... Holly Spirit which is a totally different
entity!
When you don't know much about a thing it's better to keep silent...
And who said that we Christians can't say G-d?!
In every morning I say "Please G-d keep my family well, give me strength to
overcome the difficulties of life and to be a fair person".
How can you assert such BS that we can't say G-d?!
Post by Grand Sen~or
apparently English grammar is flexible enough to accomodate the
translation of Al-Ilah which should be translated as the God, not God,
because God is used by Christians as three in one mother-son-father
holy-spirit etc. Muslims reject such trio as non-god.
And I can retaliate by saying that Christians reject Mohamed and his G-d
as non-G-d, so
what's your point?...
Everyone says his G-d is the true one.
Your lack of knowledge of the Christian faith is astonishing!
There is *NO* "mother G-d" in Christianity!
The Virgin Mary is *NOT* considered to be ... G-d in the Christian faith!
You are confusing Her with the ... Holly Spirit which is a totally different
entity!
When you don't know much about a thing it's better to keep silent...
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
2006-05-16 14:30:15 UTC
Permalink
I too told him exactly what you say
(search for "God has no article" under this same thread).
But it seems we are talking to a Grand wall... :-)
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
This wasn't supposed to be giving you a chance to delve into God/s//Deity
but simply on your use of the definite article "the" every time you mention
"God". I believe it is grammatically wrong. You can talk of "the God" of the
Moslems/Christians/Jews etc but since you are claiming that there is only
ONE God then you should not refer to him as "the" God because if you do they
people may very well ask you to define your God. They have got the right to
ask you, "Which God?" as they are apt to.
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
I have capitalized God and He/Him out of deference to your religious views
as I am personally at best an agnostic, in truth an atheist. Because I
believe in mother nature and the laws of physics and chemistry
This is purely a case concerning the use of the definite article "the"
according to the rules of English grammar which of course changes the
concept of God with and without the definite article preceding it.
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 18:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
I too told him exactly what you say
(search for "God has no article" under this same thread).
But it seems we are talking to a Grand wall... :-)
you don't know what language is for and how it works.
you thing that language is given by Jupiter and none can make any
change on it.
but you forget that Grand Sen~or will come and change it for ever -
sort of for ever;->RO(T/F)L
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
This wasn't supposed to be giving you a chance to delve into God/s//Deity
but simply on your use of the definite article "the" every time you mention
"God". I believe it is grammatically wrong. You can talk of "the God" of the
Moslems/Christians/Jews etc but since you are claiming that there is only
ONE God then you should not refer to him as "the" God because if you do they
people may very well ask you to define your God. They have got the right to
ask you, "Which God?" as they are apt to.
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
I have capitalized God and He/Him out of deference to your religious views
as I am personally at best an agnostic, in truth an atheist. Because I
believe in mother nature and the laws of physics and chemistry
This is purely a case concerning the use of the definite article "the"
according to the rules of English grammar which of course changes the
concept of God with and without the definite article preceding it.
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the expression "the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the existence of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are talking of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is only ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed to "the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be taken to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless you make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer to "the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
choro-nik
2006-05-17 03:19:07 UTC
Permalink
Grand Sen~or, it is all a question of what sounds OK to the English ear but
if you are hell bent on changing the English language to make your point,
then so be it. OK, so the Arabs call him "The God" but as you must be fully
aware in Turkish there IS no definite article though in certain
circumstances it is evident from the suffix such as -a, -e, or -i -u added
to the word that it is a definite something we are talking about. But I dare
say, you won't be making much of a headway if you persist in your ways.

It just does NOT sound right to the English ear. But if you insist of
calling him The God, then so be it. Aa-MEN!!!
--
choro-nik
*******
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
I too told him exactly what you say
(search for "God has no article" under this same thread).
But it seems we are talking to a Grand wall... :-)
you don't know what language is for and how it works.
you thing that language is given by Jupiter and none can make any
change on it.
but you forget that Grand Sen~or will come and change it for ever -
sort of for ever;->RO(T/F)L
Post by ARMENIAN LIES, NO THANKS !
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
This wasn't supposed to be giving you a chance to delve into God/s//Deity
but simply on your use of the definite article "the" every time you mention
"God". I believe it is grammatically wrong. You can talk of "the God" of the
Moslems/Christians/Jews etc but since you are claiming that there is only
ONE God then you should not refer to him as "the" God because if you do they
people may very well ask you to define your God. They have got the right to
ask you, "Which God?" as they are apt to.
We all know which God you are talking about. Hence there is absolutely no
need to mention Him as "the God" if, according to you anyway, there IS no
other God.
I have capitalized God and He/Him out of deference to your religious views
as I am personally at best an agnostic, in truth an atheist. Because I
believe in mother nature and the laws of physics and chemistry
This is purely a case concerning the use of the definite article "the"
according to the rules of English grammar which of course changes the
concept of God with and without the definite article preceding it.
--
choro-nik
********
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by choro-nik
Grandee,
May I take this opportunity of questioning your use of the
expression
"the
God".
I take it you are not pushing the line that there are all sorts of different
Gods. If I am correct in my assumption that you believe in the
existence
of
only one single God to the exclusion of so-called other "Gods", then your
existence??!!
no, no, no, no!
Post by choro-nik
use of the definite article "the" is not only unnecessary but also quite
misleading in the sense that when you talk of "the God" you are
talking
of a
specific or definite God among other Gods.
exactly, the difference it the other ones are non-god in contrast to
the God.
it is meaningless to say "the God exists/non-exists" for we use exists
for the things that the God created, and the God created everything
with a measure and term. For such things we say exist/non-exist.
Post by choro-nik
Shouldn't you be talking of "God" since you believe that there is
only
ONE
I never say/said "there is" rather I say there is no "there is" when I
say "they are no god except the God". I don't say "there are" I say
"they are". In othe words "none of them are god except the God".
Post by choro-nik
God. Or are you trying to push the idea that God is somewhat like "the
President" or "the Chairman" of a corporation?
not at all, for they are no god but the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Unless of course you are referring to "the (Islamic) God" as opposed
to
"the
(Jewish) God" or "the (Christian) God" in which case you would be
taken
to
mean that there ARE different Gods!!!
I don't say that there are different gods either, what I say is what
you assume as god is no-god except the none - the God is god.
Post by choro-nik
Personally I would have thought that all three are somewhat varying CONCEPTS
of the one and the same God. So why use the term "the God" unless
you
make a
reference to, say, a pagan god in which case you can certainly refer
to
"the
god of the ancient Aztecs" etc, etc?
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
gogu
2006-05-16 21:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You don't know a thing about Christianity!
Christ is the Son of G-d, thus part of G-d therefore G-d!
In the Christian religion we believe to the Trinity: G-d, Son and the
Holly Ghost/Spirit.
So G-d is one, not a ... prophet!
Post by Grand Sen~or
You see there is a big - BIG difference between their assumed gods and
my God, theirs are no-god while mine is god - the God is god none
others.
The same can be said about "your" (LOL) G-d, so where are we ending with
that?!
Who is going to decide who's G-d is the real G-d?:-)
I am a Christian but I've always had an allergy to the religious fanatics,
Christian, Muslim or whatever other faith...
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
ren' (The Reverend)
2006-05-17 03:19:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:01:05 +0300, "gogu"
Post by gogu
Post by Grand Sen~or
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You don't know a thing about Christianity!
Christ is the Son of G-d, thus part of G-d therefore G-d!
In the Christian religion we believe to the Trinity: G-d, Son and the
Holly Ghost/Spirit.
So G-d is one, not a ... prophet!
G-ddam right!
choro-nik
2006-05-17 03:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Who said that to Christians Christ was just a prophet? I didn't. So do not
put words into my mouth?

I merely expressed MY view that Christ was a messenger of God but only in
the sense that he was a messenger of God like all the other prophets from
Abraham to you name them in strict alphabetical order. BTW, as an agnostic
at best I myself do not buy into this theory myself. To me the whole thing
is a myth, a fairy tale. Yet, may be it is what society badly needs or at
least the badies among us. I need no fear of God to be put in me to be a
good person and not do unto others what I do not want others to do unto me.

There. You go and pray to God so that he may forgive you for your sins, you
sinful bastard! You think you can buy clemency like that!!! Shit,what bloody
hypocrisy.
--
choro-nik
*******
Post by ren' (The Reverend)
On Wed, 17 May 2006 00:01:05 +0300, "gogu"
Post by gogu
Post by Grand Sen~or
all I could say about Aztecs' god was no-god, aztecs assumed that it
was god.
Similarly Christians assume that Christ is god, however he is not, he
is just a prophet, a messenger of the God.
You don't know a thing about Christianity!
Christ is the Son of G-d, thus part of G-d therefore G-d!
In the Christian religion we believe to the Trinity: G-d, Son and the
Holly Ghost/Spirit.
So G-d is one, not a ... prophet!
G-ddam right!
Ben Cramer
2006-05-16 10:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by erikc
pissed when the mushroom clouds start sprouting in dar-al-islam.
erikc!
mushrooms or not mushrooms we will all die and the God will question us
Which god, dopey? There's hundreds of the fuckers.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 10:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Ben Cramer
2006-05-16 11:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.

By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-16 18:47:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
Ben Cramer
2006-05-17 02:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
I'm totally agnostic.
choro-nik
2006-05-17 03:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
I'm totally agnostic.
Do not worry, you will be introduced (!) to one another one day and you can
then become a gnostic. Make sure you wear your Sunday best for the
introduction. It always leaves a good impression, you know. The biggest
crooks such as lawyers and insurance brokers and NOT FORGETTING SECOND HAND
CAR SALESMEN are always wearing their "Sunday best".
--
choro-nik
*******
Ben Cramer
2006-05-17 06:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by choro-nik
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
I'm totally agnostic.
Do not worry, you will be introduced (!) to one another one day and you can
then become a gnostic. Make sure you wear your Sunday best for the
introduction. It always leaves a good impression, you know. The biggest
crooks such as lawyers and insurance brokers and NOT FORGETTING SECOND HAND
CAR SALESMEN are always wearing their "Sunday best".
I'll keep that in mind.
Grand Sen~or
2006-05-17 08:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
I'm totally agnostic.
I think you don't understand, there nothing to doubt there.
Look at the dictionary for agnostic it reads: "One who doubts the
existence of God"
"existence of God" ??!! is by itself a bosh, nonsense. I would
understand you if you said "I doubt God" but then if you doubt the God
whom would you trust?
Ben Cramer
2006-05-17 09:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Post by Grand Sen~or
Post by Ben Cramer
Which god, dopey?
the One that you will eventually be boxed and posted to when He permits
Sucker!;->RO(T/F)L
Boxed be fucked. It's the cooker for me.
even if your ashes had been blown out into void you will be returned to
the God, and guess what, the God will be questioning you about what you
ahve been posting here for what.
Post by Ben Cramer
By the bye. There is no god. Of any flavour.
"there is no god" means nothing, don't cheat yourself, just because
"there is god" means nothing too. You see, you have nothing, but not a
thing you believe in, but the God who is not a thing but the Creator of
all things with a measure and term. Look at yourself! you have a
measure, haven't you and a term - yes you are thing. Now if you believe
in yourself you just believe a thing with a measure and a term, when
your term is up your ashes will be blown out to return to the Merciful.
Now you can put anything in place of "thing" in above sentences except
the God who is not a thing. Try "Bush" or "Condi";->RO(T/F)L
I'm totally agnostic.
I think you don't understand, there nothing to doubt there.
Look at the dictionary for agnostic it reads: "One who doubts the
existence of God"
"existence of God" ??!! is by itself a bosh, nonsense. I would
understand you if you said "I doubt God" but then if you doubt the God
whom would you trust?
Agnosticism is not exclusively devoted to non-belief in gods.
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