Discussion:
work at / work for
(too old to reply)
tonbei
2019-12-04 14:42:43 UTC
Permalink
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.


"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)

question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.

If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Katy Jennison
2019-12-04 14:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
You might (for instance) work for the Acme Corporation (they pay you),
at their Anti-Road-Runner-Device Development Center (your place of work).
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2019-12-04 14:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.

A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.

In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-04 15:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2019-12-04 16:25:22 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Spains Harden
2019-12-04 18:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.

I'd use "nor" myself but:

"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."

...is good English isn't it?

"The person neither [works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building].

Don't get me started on XOR and XAND.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-12-04 19:05:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC"
does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
Bollocks.
Post by Spains Harden
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
No.
Post by Spains Harden
"The person neither [works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building].
Don't get me started on XOR and XAND.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2019-12-04 20:52:37 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:05:35 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC"
does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
Bollocks.
Post by Spains Harden
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
No.
Deciding what is "good English" and what is not "good English" is not
simple to do. Your one word line ("Bollocks.") is a perfectly
adequate statement of your position. But is it "good English"?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Richard Heathfield
2019-12-04 21:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:05:35 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC"
does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
Bollocks.
Post by Spains Harden
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
No.
Deciding what is "good English" and what is not "good English" is not
simple to do. Your one word line ("Bollocks.") is a perfectly
adequate statement of your position. But is it "good English"?
It sure could use a comma after "English"; that is: "...is good English,
isn't it?"
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-12-05 08:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:05:35 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC"
does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
Bollocks.
Post by Spains Harden
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
No.
Deciding what is "good English" and what is not "good English" is not
simple to do.
In the case of 'Arrison's posts it is. If 'e says something is "good
English" you can be pretty sure it isn't.
Post by Tony Cooper
Your one word line ("Bollocks.") is a perfectly
adequate statement of your position. But is it "good English"?
Probably not, but unlike 'Arrison I don't label particular expressions
as "good English".
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2019-12-04 19:05:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:08 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
"Good English" has a horses-for-courses aspect. My use of "or"
instead of "nor" was in alt.usage.english, and that's not good English
in this group. It can be good enough if I tell my cable repair person
"Neither internet or TV is working". It tells him what he needs to
know.

That does not mean that I would deliberately choose "or" when speaking
to him. It means only that either is acceptable without note.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-04 19:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:08 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
Athel's comment was valuable.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Spains Harden
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building." ...is good English isn't it?
"Good English" has a horses-for-courses aspect. My use of "or"
instead of "nor" was in alt.usage.english, and that's not good English
in this group. It can be good enough if I tell my cable repair person
"Neither internet or TV is working". It tells him what he needs to
know.
That you have two internets, and all three of your devices aren't working!

It's Good English in that lots of people would say that. It's not Good
English the way using "transpire" for 'happen' or "disinterested" for
uninterested' -- or the new ones, "reticent" for 'reluctant' and (worst
of all?) "reporting" for 'investigating' (Has that one escaped beyond
NPR yet?) -- are not Good English.
Post by Tony Cooper
That does not mean that I would deliberately choose "or" when speaking
to him. It means only that either is acceptable without note.
There may be cases where it would make a difference; after all, it's
survived an awful long time.
Spains Harden
2019-12-04 19:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:08 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
"Good English" has a horses-for-courses aspect. My use of "or"
instead of "nor" was in alt.usage.english, and that's not good English
in this group. It can be good enough if I tell my cable repair person
"Neither internet or TV is working". It tells him what he needs to
know.
That does not mean that I would deliberately choose "or" when speaking
to him. It means only that either is acceptable without note.
So it is good English. athel will perhaps take note that these
are "logic gates" - requiring logic. If the word "nor" is falling into
desuetude then we need to find other ways of communicating with each
other.

Neither A or B
Neither A nor B

Which did you intend?
Richard Heathfield
2019-12-04 19:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:08 -0800 (PST), Spains Harden
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building may have the
name of a particular organization, and the space in the building may
be occupied by the organization, but other space is leased to other
tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank of America
building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work at some
organization's workplace but not be employed by that organization.
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC
building."
...is good English isn't it?
"Good English" has a horses-for-courses aspect. My use of "or"
instead of "nor" was in alt.usage.english, and that's not good English
in this group. It can be good enough if I tell my cable repair person
"Neither internet or TV is working". It tells him what he needs to
know.
That does not mean that I would deliberately choose "or" when speaking
to him. It means only that either is acceptable without note.
So it is good English. athel will perhaps take note that these
are "logic gates" - requiring logic.
The "logic gate" usage is a technical usage, not ordinary English usage.

Lots of technical words have meanings that differ, sometimes to some
considerable extent, from their ordinary meanings.

Take, for example, these technical terms from my own field:

float: not a carnival vehicle or a fishing aid, but an attempt to
provide some degree of precision for storing real numbers.

double: not a döppelganger or an extra helping of whisky, but a float
that is intended to provide extra precision.

main: not the beautiful briny, but an entry point into a program.

long: not "yearn", but a wider-than-usual integer data type.

auto: not a car, but a data type qualifier indicating that its storage
should be temporary.

And there are lots more examples where they came from, too.
Post by Spains Harden
If the word "nor" is falling into
desuetude then we need to find other ways of communicating with each
other.
If the word "the" is falling... but it isn't. Neither is "nor".
Post by Spains Harden
Neither A or B
Neither A nor B
Which did you intend?
The first is acceptable to most people. In my view, the second is
preferable (and better English).
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
CDB
2019-12-05 14:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a
novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited
guest on occasion." (note: CFC stands for the Cambridge
Forensic Center. ) (Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work
for", since it seems that they are almost of the same
meaning. I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning,
if there are.
If there's a difference, "work at CFC" means "work at a
workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's
employee."
Yes, but it should be "a CFC employee".
Post by Tony Cooper
Many buildings house more than one tenant. The building
may have the name of a particular organization, and the
space in the building may be occupied by the organization,
but other space is leased to other tenants.
A person here in Orlando could have an office in the Bank
of America building but not work for Bank of America.
Also a contractor--from a janitor to a consultant--may work
at some organization's workplace but not be employed by that
organization.
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither
works for the CFC or has an office in the CFC building. (you
mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things
done in one newsgroup are viewed differently in another
newsgroup, or not even noticed. My error would not have been
noticed in the photography newsgroup I follow. Everyone
reading my post in this newsgroup probably noticed it, and you
were just the first to point it out.
I think the word "nor" is no longer part of everyday BrE.
"...the person neither works for the CFC or has an office in the
CFC building."
...is good English isn't it?
"Good English" has a horses-for-courses aspect. My use of "or"
instead of "nor" was in alt.usage.english, and that's not good
English in this group. It can be good enough if I tell my cable
repair person "Neither internet or TV is working". It tells him
what he needs to know.
That does not mean that I would deliberately choose "or" when
speaking to him. It means only that either is acceptable without
note.
So it is good English. athel will perhaps take note that these are
"logic gates" - requiring logic. If the word "nor" is falling into
desuetude then we need to find other ways of communicating with each
other.
Neither A or B Neither A nor B
Which did you intend?
The second, since the first is incorrect: "neither ... nor" is a linked
pair. To use "or" you would have to recast the sentence to something
like "the person doesn't work for the CFC or have an office in the CFC
building."

The OP example is IMO correct because it is separated into two
utterances and doesn't use "neither ... nor". "I don't work at the CFC.
Or [work] for it." Not that I insist on a period as a separator; a
comma would do.
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-04 21:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 08:31:26 -0700, Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
In the situation Cornwell describes, the person neither works for the
CFC or has an office in the CFC building.
(you mean "nor", not "or".)
Yes, of course. In a different thread I commented that things done in
one newsgroup are viewed differently in another newsgroup, or not even
noticed. My error would not have been noticed in the photography
newsgroup I follow. Everyone reading my post in this newsgroup
probably noticed it, and you were just the first to point it out.
And I wouldn't have bothered, but the OP is here trying to improve
their English.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-12-04 23:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
My first thought was that
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it"
could mean:
"I'm not an employee of CFC (working in the CFC building) nor a
(self-employed) contractor for CFC".

But, as has been shown by other replies, the meaning is unclear.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tony Cooper
2019-12-04 23:33:05 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 04 Dec 2019 23:20:13 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
My first thought was that
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it"
"I'm not an employee of CFC (working in the CFC building) nor a
(self-employed) contractor for CFC".
But, as has been shown by other replies, the meaning is unclear.
I don't think it's unclear. If the speaker is, say, someone involved
in forensics the person could be invited to the building to consult on
a case. That person may not be someone who works at the CFC or for
CFC.

I am, of course, fabricating context. It's a logical fabrication,
though.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
s***@gmail.com
2019-12-05 00:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 04 Dec 2019 23:20:13 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC" does "he's a CFC's employee."
My first thought was that
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it"
"I'm not an employee of CFC (working in the CFC building) nor a
(self-employed) contractor for CFC".
But, as has been shown by other replies, the meaning is unclear.
I don't think it's unclear. If the speaker is, say, someone involved
in forensics the person could be invited to the building to consult on
a case. That person may not be someone who works at the CFC or for
CFC.
I am, of course, fabricating context. It's a logical fabrication,
though.
And indeed, the OP included "just an invited guest on occasion".
Perhaps called in as a consultant (an official invite)
or as a watcher-over-the-shoulder of an employee (a [friendly] unofficial invite).

/dps
Mark Brader
2019-12-05 00:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by tonbei
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it. Just an invited guest on occasion."
(note: CFC stands for the Cambridge Forensic Center. )
(Port Mortuary by P. Cornwell)
question: about a difference between "work at" and "work for",
since it seems that they are almost of the same meaning.
I couldn't grasp their differences in meaning, if there are.
If there's a difference,
"work at CFC" means "work at a workplace of CFC", and "work for CFC"
does "he's a CFC's employee."
My first thought was that
"I don't work at the CFC. Or for it"
"I'm not an employee of CFC (working in the CFC building) nor a
(self-employed) contractor for CFC".
Huh?
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
But, as has been shown by other replies, the meaning is unclear.
What? I thought it was perfectly clear and was explanied correctly by
Tonbei in the original posting.
--
Mark Brader | Moreover, as experts, we... deserve certain courtesies,
Toronto | like high rates of pay, and blind trust in our competence
***@vex.net | on the part of John Q. Public. --Geoffrey K. Pullum
Richard Heathfield
2019-12-05 00:58:28 UTC
Permalink
On 05/12/2019 00:44, Mark Brader wrote:

<snip>
Post by Mark Brader
I thought it was perfectly clear and was explanied correctly by
Tonbei in the original posting.
I suspected that my dictionaries were incomplete with respect to ^[Ee]x,
and it seems my suspicion was correct. Neither my /usr/share/dict/words
nor my rather larger cobbled-together dictionary has "explanied".

If I'd paid for them, right now I'd be thinking about demanding my money
back.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
tonbei
2019-12-06 08:28:52 UTC
Permalink
I don't work at the CFC.

which implies "I don't work for CFC's affiliated company, etc".

Is this right?
Because a big company's building lend its spaces to its own affiliated
or associated enterprises.

A similar expression is "work with".
"I work with the CFC." means he works for its associated company,etc.
except it doesn't say about whether the subject has an office or not there.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-06 15:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by tonbei
I don't work at the CFC.
which implies "I don't work for CFC's affiliated company, etc".
Is this right?
no
Post by tonbei
Because a big company's building lend its spaces to its own affiliated
or associated enterprises.
People have ALREADY EXPLAINED to you that all sorts of companies can
rent space in a building that happens to be named for its principal
or best-known tenant.

And it certainly doesn't "lend" them to its subsidiaries, it collects
rent from them just like from any other tenant.
Post by tonbei
A similar expression is "work with".
"I work with the CFC." means he works for its associated company,etc.
except it doesn't say about whether the subject has an office or not there.
no

Most likely, "he" is an independent contractor.

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