Discussion:
"Allahuh akbar!", cry insurgents in Paris
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
2005-11-04 16:15:46 UTC
Permalink
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago

AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start - and the pattern is always the
same.

Bands of youths in balaclavas start by setting fire to parked cars, break
shop windows with baseball bats, wreck public telephones and ransack
cinemas, libraries and schools. When the police arrive on the scene, the
rioters attack them with stones, knives and baseball bats.

The police respond by firing tear-gas grenades and, on occasions, blank
shots in the air. Sometimes the youths fire back - with real bullets.

These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly
close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the
intifada that at the time of writing appears beyond control.

The troubles first began in Clichy-sous-Bois, an underprivileged suburb
east
of Paris, a week ago. France's bombastic interior minister, Nicholas
Sarkozy, responded by sending over 400 heavily armed policemen to "impose
the laws of the republic," and promised to crush "the louts and
hooligans"
within the day. Within a few days, however, it had dawned on anyone who
wanted to know that this was no "outburst by criminal elements" that
could
be handled with a mixture of braggadocio and batons.

By Monday, everyone in Paris was speaking of "an unprecedented crisis."
Both
Sarkozy and his boss, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, had to cancel
foreign trips to deal with the riots.

How did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week, a
group of young boys in Clichy engaged in one of their favorite sports:
stealing parts of parked cars.

Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened, as the police have not
been
present in that suburb for years.

The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody,
telephoned
the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her
building. The police were thus obliged to do something - which meant
entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them.

Once the police arrived on the scene, the youths - who had been reigning
over Clichy pretty unmolested for years - got really angry. A brief chase
took place in the street, and two of the youths, who were not actually
chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned-off area housing a
power
pylon. Both were electrocuted.

Once news of their deaths was out, Clichy was all up in arms.

With cries of "God is great," bands of youths armed with whatever they
could
get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee.

The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the
police
from French territory. So they hit back - sending in Special Forces,
known
as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.

Within hours, the original cause of the incidents was forgotten and the
issue jelled around a demand by the representatives of the rioters that
the
French police leave the "occupied territories." By midweek, the riots had
spread to three of the provinces neighboring Paris, with a population of
5.5
million.

But who lives in the affected areas? In Clichy itself, more than 80
percent
of the inhabitants are Muslim immigrants or their children, mostly from
Arab
and black Africa. In other affected towns, the Muslim immigrant community
accounts for 30 percent to 60 percent of the population. But these are
not
the only figures that matter. Average unemployment in the affected areas
is
estimated at around 30 percent and, when it comes to young would-be
workers,
reaches 60 percent.

In these suburban towns, built in the 1950s in imitation of the Soviet
social housing of the Stalinist era, people live in crammed conditions,
sometimes several generations in a tiny apartment, and see "real French
life" only on television.

The French used to flatter themselves for the success of their policy of
assimilation, which was supposed to turn immigrants from any background
into
"proper Frenchmen" within a generation at most.

That policy worked as long as immigrants came to France in drips and
drops
and thus could merge into a much larger mainstream. Assimilation,
however,
cannot work when in most schools in the affected areas, fewer than 20
percent of the pupils are native French speakers.

France has also lost another powerful mechanism for assimilation: the
obligatory military service abolished in the 1990s.

As the number of immigrants and their descendants increases in a
particular
locality, more and more of its native French inhabitants leave for
"calmer
places," thus making assimilation still more difficult.

In some areas, it is possible for an immigrant or his descendants to
spend a
whole life without ever encountering the need to speak French, let alone
familiarize himself with any aspect of the famous French culture.

The result is often alienation. And that, in turn, gives radical
Islamists
an opportunity to propagate their message of religious and cultural
apartheid.

Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the
population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the
Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right
to
organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its
religious beliefs.

In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In
these
areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab"
while
most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.

The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling
alcohol
and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas
and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local
administration.

A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of
Bondy, Aulnay-sous-Bois and Bobigny heard a single overarching message:
The
French authorities should keep out.

"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the
local
"emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the
police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim
Brotherhood,
to negotiate an end to the hostilities.

President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore
because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of
Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim
community.

That illusion has now been shattered - and the Chirac administration,
already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be
clueless
about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a
"ticking time bomb."

It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse
to
assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that
Islam
offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an
adviser
to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in
which
Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a
new
cultural synthesis.

The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the
important issue of political power. Who will rule this new Andalusia:
Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?

Suddenly, French politics has become worth watching again, even though
for
the wrong reasons.

Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly "Politique internationale,"
is a
member of Benador Associates.
menfin
2005-11-04 16:35:04 UTC
Permalink
f x drr§,krè gz,sè cbftdye('"za' hggys'ar cn&é'klik t
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago
AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start - and the pattern is always the
same.
Bands of youths in balaclavas start by setting fire to parked cars, break
shop windows with baseball bats, wreck public telephones and ransack
cinemas, libraries and schools. When the police arrive on the scene, the
rioters attack them with stones, knives and baseball bats.
The police respond by firing tear-gas grenades and, on occasions, blank
shots in the air. Sometimes the youths fire back - with real bullets.
These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly
close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the
intifada that at the time of writing appears beyond control.
The troubles first began in Clichy-sous-Bois, an underprivileged suburb
east
of Paris, a week ago. France's bombastic interior minister, Nicholas
Sarkozy, responded by sending over 400 heavily armed policemen to "impose
the laws of the republic," and promised to crush "the louts and
hooligans"
within the day. Within a few days, however, it had dawned on anyone who
wanted to know that this was no "outburst by criminal elements" that
could
be handled with a mixture of braggadocio and batons.
By Monday, everyone in Paris was speaking of "an unprecedented crisis."
Both
Sarkozy and his boss, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, had to cancel
foreign trips to deal with the riots.
How did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week, a
stealing parts of parked cars.
Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened, as the police have not
been
present in that suburb for years.
The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody,
telephoned
the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her
building. The police were thus obliged to do something - which meant
entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them.
Once the police arrived on the scene, the youths - who had been reigning
over Clichy pretty unmolested for years - got really angry. A brief chase
took place in the street, and two of the youths, who were not actually
chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned-off area housing a
power
pylon. Both were electrocuted.
Once news of their deaths was out, Clichy was all up in arms.
With cries of "God is great," bands of youths armed with whatever they
could
get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee.
The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the
police
from French territory. So they hit back - sending in Special Forces,
known
as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.
Within hours, the original cause of the incidents was forgotten and the
issue jelled around a demand by the representatives of the rioters that
the
French police leave the "occupied territories." By midweek, the riots had
spread to three of the provinces neighboring Paris, with a population of
5.5
million.
But who lives in the affected areas? In Clichy itself, more than 80
percent
of the inhabitants are Muslim immigrants or their children, mostly from
Arab
and black Africa. In other affected towns, the Muslim immigrant community
accounts for 30 percent to 60 percent of the population. But these are
not
the only figures that matter. Average unemployment in the affected areas
is
estimated at around 30 percent and, when it comes to young would-be
workers,
reaches 60 percent.
In these suburban towns, built in the 1950s in imitation of the Soviet
social housing of the Stalinist era, people live in crammed conditions,
sometimes several generations in a tiny apartment, and see "real French
life" only on television.
The French used to flatter themselves for the success of their policy of
assimilation, which was supposed to turn immigrants from any background
into
"proper Frenchmen" within a generation at most.
That policy worked as long as immigrants came to France in drips and
drops
and thus could merge into a much larger mainstream. Assimilation,
however,
cannot work when in most schools in the affected areas, fewer than 20
percent of the pupils are native French speakers.
France has also lost another powerful mechanism for assimilation: the
obligatory military service abolished in the 1990s.
As the number of immigrants and their descendants increases in a
particular
locality, more and more of its native French inhabitants leave for
"calmer
places," thus making assimilation still more difficult.
In some areas, it is possible for an immigrant or his descendants to
spend a
whole life without ever encountering the need to speak French, let alone
familiarize himself with any aspect of the famous French culture.
The result is often alienation. And that, in turn, gives radical
Islamists
an opportunity to propagate their message of religious and cultural
apartheid.
Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the
population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the
Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right
to
organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its
religious beliefs.
In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In
these
areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab"
while
most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.
The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling
alcohol
and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas
and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local
administration.
A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of
The
French authorities should keep out.
"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the
local
"emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the
police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim
Brotherhood,
to negotiate an end to the hostilities.
President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore
because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of
Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim
community.
That illusion has now been shattered - and the Chirac administration,
already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be
clueless
about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a
"ticking time bomb."
It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse
to
assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that
Islam
offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.
So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an
adviser
to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in
which
Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a
new
cultural synthesis.
The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the
Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?
Suddenly, French politics has become worth watching again, even though
for
the wrong reasons.
Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly "Politique internationale,"
is a
member of Benador Associates.
RLunfa
2005-11-04 16:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by menfin
f x drr§,krè gz,sè cbftdye('"za' hggys'ar cn&é'klik t
[...]

De acuerdo. Boludovsky es un imbécil.

RLunfa
Réjean Laflamme
2005-11-04 18:26:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by menfin
f x drr§,krè gz,sè cbftdye('"za' hggys'ar cn&é'klik t
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago
AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start - and the pattern is always the
same.
Je pense que c'est de l'anglosaxophone, cet idiome impérial qui nous
envahit.
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
2005-11-04 16:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.

As Salaam Aleikum

Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Nitouche
2005-11-04 16:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Et ça vous ferait rien tous là de parler français sur les forums
français ou de rester sur vos forums ?????
ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
2005-11-04 16:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Et ça vous ferait rien tous là de parler français sur les forums
français ou de rester sur vos forums ?????
Ouais, mais Paris brule!

ARIEL
floppy
2005-11-04 19:54:41 UTC
Permalink
VIVA EL PUEBLO DE PALESTINA
ABAJO EL GENOCIDA BUSH
NO ACUDAS A SER PARTICIPE DE UNA MANIFESTACÓN DE GENOCIDAS
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
Post by Nitouche
Et ça vous ferait rien tous là de parler français sur les forums
français ou de rester sur vos forums ?????
Ouais, mais Paris brule!
ARIEL
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
2005-11-04 16:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Et ça vous ferait rien tous là de parler français sur les forums
français ou de rester sur vos forums ?????
No bertube a turquito borque vamos a ir y la vamos a romber el forum abarte
del culom.

As Salaam Aleikum
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
MORDECHAI GUEMES
2005-11-04 16:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.

MORDECHAI
Réjean Laflamme
2005-11-04 16:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
MORDECHAI
Parlez français, scrogneugneu !
RLunfa
2005-11-04 16:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Réjean Laflamme
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
MORDECHAI
Parlez français, scrogneugneu !
"scrogneugneu"?
A mi nadie me dice "scrogneugneu" y conserva la vida para contarlo.

Hable en lo que quiera pero escriba en español, si quiere ser tomado más o
menos en serio.

RLunfa
Nitouche
2005-11-04 16:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by RLunfa
Post by Réjean Laflamme
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
MORDECHAI
Parlez français, scrogneugneu !
"scrogneugneu"?
A mi nadie me dice "scrogneugneu" y conserva la vida para contarlo.
Hable en lo que quiera pero escriba en español, si quiere ser tomado más o
menos en serio.
RLunfa
Et "merde" ? comprendre ?

Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !

¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
RLunfa
2005-11-04 17:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Post by RLunfa
Post by Réjean Laflamme
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como
belotudovsky.
Post by Nitouche
Post by RLunfa
Post by Réjean Laflamme
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
MORDECHAI
Parlez français, scrogneugneu !
"scrogneugneu"?
A mi nadie me dice "scrogneugneu" y conserva la vida para contarlo.
Hable en lo que quiera pero escriba en español, si quiere ser tomado más o
menos en serio.
RLunfa
Et "merde" ? comprendre ?
Y "chupame las pelotas", la juna?
Post by Nitouche
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !
Yes: kiss my ass.
Post by Nitouche
¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
Si hablo no me vas a escuchar, y en todo caso escribo en lo que quiero en
donde quiero, incluída la concha de tu hermana.

Entendiste, forro, o te lo mando al franchute para que te explique?

Y no me hagás poner nervioso porque voy de visita una temporada.

RLunfa
S***@aol.com
2005-11-04 17:16:55 UTC
Permalink
***
French President Jacques Chirac thought not to involve in Iraq was a
good
idea to protect France away from Fanatic Islam

Now, Parisien got nuts with barbarian riots

PS: Dont ever wait the insurgents come to you then you start to fight
You have to go out with the world to fight those fanatic insurgents for
good

God is great, but God dont teach you to be terrorists, otherwise, God
is Hog :))))
RLunfa
2005-11-04 17:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by S***@aol.com
***
French President Jacques Chirac thought not to involve in Iraq was a
good
idea to protect France away from Fanatic Islam
Now, Parisien got nuts with barbarian riots
PS: Dont ever wait the insurgents come to you then you start to fight
You have to go out with the world to fight those fanatic insurgents for
good
God is great, but God dont teach you to be terrorists, otherwise, God
is Hog :))))
No hablo lenguas bárbaras y vaya a sonreirle al culo de su madre.

RLunfa
Joe
2005-11-04 18:14:31 UTC
Permalink
He told you in spanish to fuck off and go to your french newsgroup.
Post by S***@aol.com
***
French President Jacques Chirac thought not to involve in Iraq was a
good
idea to protect France away from Fanatic Islam
Now, Parisien got nuts with barbarian riots
PS: Dont ever wait the insurgents come to you then you start to fight
You have to go out with the world to fight those fanatic insurgents for
good
God is great, but God dont teach you to be terrorists, otherwise, God
is Hog :))))
S***@aol.com
2005-11-04 18:39:34 UTC
Permalink
***
El francés no inventó el Internet, somos el ser humano, libertad de
palabra alguno donde. Los disturbios bárbaros hacen Chirac más idiota
tratando de quedarse dentro de la su jaula de perro y guardias de
soporte de Binladen fuera:)))

Egoísta nunca consiguen richer:) No me extraña por qué América
Latina más poorers porque ellos muder sus propios pueblos para nada,
ellos gritan "Bush sale", pero todos ellos quiere venir a EE. UU para
siempre:))))

TGIF, what is TGIF in Spanish ???? :)
RLunfa
2005-11-04 22:37:29 UTC
Permalink
<***@aol.com> escribi� en el mensaje news:***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
***
El francés no inventó el Internet, somos el ser humano, libertad de
palabra alguno donde. Los disturbios bárbaros hacen Chirac más idiota
tratando de quedarse dentro de la su jaula de perro y guardias de
soporte de Binladen fuera:)))

Egoísta nunca consiguen richer:) No me extraña por qué América
Latina más poorers porque ellos muder sus propios pueblos para nada,
ellos gritan "Bush sale", pero todos ellos quiere venir a EE. UU para
siempre:))))
//
En esta metálica traducción automática puede comprobar casi, que es usted un
salame, un gusanete más, pero que no habla español.


TGIF, what is TGIF in Spanish ???? :)
//

Yo tengo una foto de Petry en bolas en formato JPG, le va?

RLunfa
S***@aol.com
2005-11-04 23:37:48 UTC
Permalink
***

lo que ha pasado
Réjean Laflamme
2005-11-04 18:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by RLunfa
Post by Réjean Laflamme
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
MORDECHAI
Parlez français, scrogneugneu !
"scrogneugneu"?
J'aime bien.
Post by RLunfa
A mi nadie me dice "scrogneugneu" y conserva la vida para contarlo.
Et pourtant je vis toujours.

Suivi : es.charla.politica.misc

Salut !
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
2005-11-04 16:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
La ingles es idioma de la maldad.
Los esbañoles la hablan muy bien.

As Salaam Aleikum
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
MORDECHAI
Nitouche
2005-11-04 16:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
As Salaam Aleikum
Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmed Labollah
Habla ingles, maturrango.
La ingles es idioma de la maldad.
Los esbañoles la hablan muy bien.
As Salaam Aleikum
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by MORDECHAI GUEMES
MORDECHAI
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !

¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
2005-11-04 17:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !
¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
Quoi?

Celle-ci c'est une offense majore qui merite bruler deux dizaines de
bagnoles!

Aux torches citoyens!!

ARIEL
usenet
2005-11-04 17:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
Post by Nitouche
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !
¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
Quoi?
Celle-ci c'est une offense majore qui merite bruler deux dizaines de
bagnoles!
Finalmente, mas vale que siga en castellano.

Saludos

Mario "el franchute"
- GREGG - <TheScatologist@hotmail.com>
2005-11-06 02:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by usenet
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
Post by Nitouche
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !
¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
Quoi?
Celle-ci c'est une offense majore qui merite bruler deux dizaines de
bagnoles!
Finalmente, mas vale que siga en castellano.
Saludos
Mario "el franchute"
Quand non, Mario le imbecil !!! Peu effort est d'fait taire, mais non,
il doit critiquer..., sans offrir autres alternatives... Le c'est une
veritable douleur dans le cul, c'est franchute !!!

Gregg

--------------------
"I'm allowed to lick my balls. I'm allowed to sniff asses...
I shit anywhere in the yard, and hump anything that walks.
That's why I love being a dog..." (A Dog)
======================================================
* Over the Rainbow: http://tinyurl.com/ct8gb (IZ)
* http://www.geocities.com/airborne_col/America.html
My Task is so secret,I don't even know what I'm doing.
======================================================
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
2005-11-04 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Speak French or leave the French-speaking forum !
¡Hable francés o deja el foro francófono!
Why you write English in french forums?

Raciste.
Hamacame el mono.

Allah uh akbar
Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Réjean Laflamme
2005-11-04 18:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahbaraj Ahmel Labollah
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
Amir buen muslim bero un boco imbecil aunque no tanto como belotudovsky.
Vous avez un rhume ?

Ou un accent arabe ? Pas de p, plutôt f en général d'ailleurs
falestine/fetrol.
Adrey R
2005-11-04 17:20:22 UTC
Permalink
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LOS PRESIDENTES DE LA ARGENTINA Y EE.UU. SE
REUNIRAN EN EL HOTEL HERMITAGE
Hoy se ven Kirchner y Bush, con pedidos y apoyos en la agenda
El Gobierno agradecerá varios gestos políticos de EE.UU. y espera
respaldo para negociar con el FMI. Para Washington es central el tema
del ALCA. Ayer, Condoleezza Rice se lo volvió a plantear a Bielsa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DESPUES DE LOS ELOGIOS QUE LE DESTINO BUSH AL
PRESIDENTE
Una relación que pasó de la desconfianza mutua al respeto
Washington empezó a ver en Kirchner una pieza de estabilidad para la
región.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL TRAYECTO DE GEORGE BUSH, DESPUES DEL
ATERRIZAJE EN MAR DEL PLATA
En limusina blindada, al frente de la caravana
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | NEGOCIACIONES PARA EL DOCUMENTO FINAL
El desafío de atender la esencia sin quedar cautivos de la pura forma
El debate aún inconcluso refleja las polarizaciones del hemisferio.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL ACUERDO DE LIBRE COMERCIO QUE IMPULSA
ESTADOS UNIDOS
ALCA: no hubo acuerdo y el tema será definido por los presidentes
Los cancilleres no lograron destrabar la discusión durante todo el
día de ayer. Impulsada por Estados Unidos, el Area de Libre Comercio
de las Américas es resistida por Argentina y sus socios del Mercosur.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EN MAR DEL PLATA NO HAY BANCOS, NO HAY CLASES
Y HASTA CERRO EL CEMENTERIO
Postales desde una ciudad desierta
El comercio tapió vidrieras. La gente se encerró en casa o fue a la
playa, lejos.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DIALOGO CON EL TITULAR DE LA OEA
Para Insulza, el ALCA "nunca debió haber sido introducido" en la
cumbre
Dice que el obstáculo son los subsidios al agro. Pero que dependen de
la OMC.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | FRIALDAD BILATERAL
Lula, último en llegar y primero en irse
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | ACTO Y DOCUMENTO FINAL DE LA CUMBRE DE LOS
PUEBLOS
La "contracumbre" cerró con una dura condena a los planes de Bush
Siete mil delegados se pronunciaron contra la globalización y el pago
de la deuda externa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS
Diego, Evo y Kusturika, en el Tren del Alba
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | TAMBIEN HARAN HUELGA EN ENTRE RIOS Y RIO NEGRO
Por la presencia de Bush, los maestros paran en la Capital y en Buenos
Aires
La medida afectará a unos cinco millones de chicos. Repudio de las
autoridades educativas.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LA MEDIDA GREMIAL CONTINUA HOY Y MAÑANA
El subte funcionó, pero con alguna demora
 
DESPUES DE LOS TIROS
Retorna la calma en Avellaneda
 
INVESTIGACION JUDICIAL POR EL ATAQUE A LOS TRENES
Haedo: indagan a los detenidos y hoy deciden excarcelaciones
 
EL MARTES COMIENZAN LAS INDAGATORIAS DE LOS MILITARES IMPLICADOS
Actos en Río Tercero, a diez años de la trágica explosión
 
LUEGO DE LA CAIDA ELECTORAL DEL 23 DE OCTUBRE FRENTE A CRISTINA KIRCHNER
Chiche reapareció tras la derrota: reiteró que Duhalde deja la
política
Fue en una reunión donde legisladores del duhaldismo estrenaron bloque
y nombre.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | DATOS OFICIALES DE OCTUBRE
La inflación fue 0,8%: en diez meses roza el nivel esperado de todo
2005
Indumentaria y turismo impulsaron la suba. En lo que va del año, los
precios minoristas ya subieron 9,8%, cerca del 10,5% proyectado.
Economía apuesta a las inversiones para impulsar la oferta.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LA INFLACION SEGUN LA MIRADA DE LOS
ANALISTAS PRIVADOS
Para 2006, nadie espera menos del 10%
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | TIRONEOS CON LOS INDUSTRIALES
Los supermercados esperan más subas en carne, lácteos y frutas
Impactarán de aquí a fin de año. Y son por razones estacionales,
aseguran. También suponen que habrá ajustes en los productos de
tocador y limpieza.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LAS ACCIONES SUBIERON CASI 3%. LA DIVISA
QUEDO EN $3
Repuntó la Bolsa y el Central intervino para sostener al dólar
 
TRAS LA AMENAZA DEL PRESIDENTE CHAVEZ DE REESTATIZAR SIDOR
Gestión oficial ante Venezuela por la siderúrgica de Techint
El ministro Julio De Vido se reunió ayer con el canciller venezolano,
Alí Rodríguez.
 
TRAMITE EN DIPUTADOS
Avanza una empresa satelital
 
TENDENCIA
El 35% de las pymes, con una mujer en el timón
 
CONFLICTO ENTRE LAS AUTORIDADES LOCALES Y TRASANDINAS
Los camiones brasileños siguen acaparando los fletes a Chile
Las cargas pasan por las rutas nacionales y dan trabajo a 7.000 camiones
por año
 
RENEGOCIACION DE LA AUTOPISTA EZEIZA-CAÑUELAS
Analizan suba en peajes
 
IMPORTACION DE GAS PARA 2006
Acuerdo con Bolivia
 
NEGOCIOS & MERCADO
Adrey R
2005-11-04 17:20:26 UTC
Permalink
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LOS PRESIDENTES DE LA ARGENTINA Y EE.UU. SE
REUNIRAN EN EL HOTEL HERMITAGE
Hoy se ven Kirchner y Bush, con pedidos y apoyos en la agenda
El Gobierno agradecerá varios gestos políticos de EE.UU. y espera
respaldo para negociar con el FMI. Para Washington es central el tema
del ALCA. Ayer, Condoleezza Rice se lo volvió a plantear a Bielsa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DESPUES DE LOS ELOGIOS QUE LE DESTINO BUSH AL
PRESIDENTE
Una relación que pasó de la desconfianza mutua al respeto
Washington empezó a ver en Kirchner una pieza de estabilidad para la
región.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL TRAYECTO DE GEORGE BUSH, DESPUES DEL
ATERRIZAJE EN MAR DEL PLATA
En limusina blindada, al frente de la caravana
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | NEGOCIACIONES PARA EL DOCUMENTO FINAL
El desafío de atender la esencia sin quedar cautivos de la pura forma
El debate aún inconcluso refleja las polarizaciones del hemisferio.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL ACUERDO DE LIBRE COMERCIO QUE IMPULSA
ESTADOS UNIDOS
ALCA: no hubo acuerdo y el tema será definido por los presidentes
Los cancilleres no lograron destrabar la discusión durante todo el
día de ayer. Impulsada por Estados Unidos, el Area de Libre Comercio
de las Américas es resistida por Argentina y sus socios del Mercosur.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EN MAR DEL PLATA NO HAY BANCOS, NO HAY CLASES
Y HASTA CERRO EL CEMENTERIO
Postales desde una ciudad desierta
El comercio tapió vidrieras. La gente se encerró en casa o fue a la
playa, lejos.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DIALOGO CON EL TITULAR DE LA OEA
Para Insulza, el ALCA "nunca debió haber sido introducido" en la
cumbre
Dice que el obstáculo son los subsidios al agro. Pero que dependen de
la OMC.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | FRIALDAD BILATERAL
Lula, último en llegar y primero en irse
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | ACTO Y DOCUMENTO FINAL DE LA CUMBRE DE LOS
PUEBLOS
La "contracumbre" cerró con una dura condena a los planes de Bush
Siete mil delegados se pronunciaron contra la globalización y el pago
de la deuda externa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS
Diego, Evo y Kusturika, en el Tren del Alba
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | TAMBIEN HARAN HUELGA EN ENTRE RIOS Y RIO NEGRO
Por la presencia de Bush, los maestros paran en la Capital y en Buenos
Aires
La medida afectará a unos cinco millones de chicos. Repudio de las
autoridades educativas.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LA MEDIDA GREMIAL CONTINUA HOY Y MAÑANA
El subte funcionó, pero con alguna demora
 
DESPUES DE LOS TIROS
Retorna la calma en Avellaneda
 
INVESTIGACION JUDICIAL POR EL ATAQUE A LOS TRENES
Haedo: indagan a los detenidos y hoy deciden excarcelaciones
 
EL MARTES COMIENZAN LAS INDAGATORIAS DE LOS MILITARES IMPLICADOS
Actos en Río Tercero, a diez años de la trágica explosión
 
LUEGO DE LA CAIDA ELECTORAL DEL 23 DE OCTUBRE FRENTE A CRISTINA KIRCHNER
Chiche reapareció tras la derrota: reiteró que Duhalde deja la
política
Fue en una reunión donde legisladores del duhaldismo estrenaron bloque
y nombre.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | DATOS OFICIALES DE OCTUBRE
La inflación fue 0,8%: en diez meses roza el nivel esperado de todo
2005
Indumentaria y turismo impulsaron la suba. En lo que va del año, los
precios minoristas ya subieron 9,8%, cerca del 10,5% proyectado.
Economía apuesta a las inversiones para impulsar la oferta.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LA INFLACION SEGUN LA MIRADA DE LOS
ANALISTAS PRIVADOS
Para 2006, nadie espera menos del 10%
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | TIRONEOS CON LOS INDUSTRIALES
Los supermercados esperan más subas en carne, lácteos y frutas
Impactarán de aquí a fin de año. Y son por razones estacionales,
aseguran. También suponen que habrá ajustes en los productos de
tocador y limpieza.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LAS ACCIONES SUBIERON CASI 3%. LA DIVISA
QUEDO EN $3
Repuntó la Bolsa y el Central intervino para sostener al dólar
 
TRAS LA AMENAZA DEL PRESIDENTE CHAVEZ DE REESTATIZAR SIDOR
Gestión oficial ante Venezuela por la siderúrgica de Techint
El ministro Julio De Vido se reunió ayer con el canciller venezolano,
Alí Rodríguez.
 
TRAMITE EN DIPUTADOS
Avanza una empresa satelital
 
TENDENCIA
El 35% de las pymes, con una mujer en el timón
 
CONFLICTO ENTRE LAS AUTORIDADES LOCALES Y TRASANDINAS
Los camiones brasileños siguen acaparando los fletes a Chile
Las cargas pasan por las rutas nacionales y dan trabajo a 7.000 camiones
por año
 
RENEGOCIACION DE LA AUTOPISTA EZEIZA-CAÑUELAS
Analizan suba en peajes
 
IMPORTACION DE GAS PARA 2006
Acuerdo con Bolivia
 
NEGOCIOS & MERCADO
Adrey R
2005-11-04 17:20:50 UTC
Permalink
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LOS PRESIDENTES DE LA ARGENTINA Y EE.UU. SE
REUNIRAN EN EL HOTEL HERMITAGE
Hoy se ven Kirchner y Bush, con pedidos y apoyos en la agenda
El Gobierno agradecerá varios gestos políticos de EE.UU. y espera
respaldo para negociar con el FMI. Para Washington es central el tema
del ALCA. Ayer, Condoleezza Rice se lo volvió a plantear a Bielsa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DESPUES DE LOS ELOGIOS QUE LE DESTINO BUSH AL
PRESIDENTE
Una relación que pasó de la desconfianza mutua al respeto
Washington empezó a ver en Kirchner una pieza de estabilidad para la
región.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL TRAYECTO DE GEORGE BUSH, DESPUES DEL
ATERRIZAJE EN MAR DEL PLATA
En limusina blindada, al frente de la caravana
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | NEGOCIACIONES PARA EL DOCUMENTO FINAL
El desafío de atender la esencia sin quedar cautivos de la pura forma
El debate aún inconcluso refleja las polarizaciones del hemisferio.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EL ACUERDO DE LIBRE COMERCIO QUE IMPULSA
ESTADOS UNIDOS
ALCA: no hubo acuerdo y el tema será definido por los presidentes
Los cancilleres no lograron destrabar la discusión durante todo el
día de ayer. Impulsada por Estados Unidos, el Area de Libre Comercio
de las Américas es resistida por Argentina y sus socios del Mercosur.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | EN MAR DEL PLATA NO HAY BANCOS, NO HAY CLASES
Y HASTA CERRO EL CEMENTERIO
Postales desde una ciudad desierta
El comercio tapió vidrieras. La gente se encerró en casa o fue a la
playa, lejos.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | DIALOGO CON EL TITULAR DE LA OEA
Para Insulza, el ALCA "nunca debió haber sido introducido" en la
cumbre
Dice que el obstáculo son los subsidios al agro. Pero que dependen de
la OMC.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | FRIALDAD BILATERAL
Lula, último en llegar y primero en irse
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | ACTO Y DOCUMENTO FINAL DE LA CUMBRE DE LOS
PUEBLOS
La "contracumbre" cerró con una dura condena a los planes de Bush
Siete mil delegados se pronunciaron contra la globalización y el pago
de la deuda externa.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS
Diego, Evo y Kusturika, en el Tren del Alba
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | TAMBIEN HARAN HUELGA EN ENTRE RIOS Y RIO NEGRO
Por la presencia de Bush, los maestros paran en la Capital y en Buenos
Aires
La medida afectará a unos cinco millones de chicos. Repudio de las
autoridades educativas.
 
CUMBRE DE LAS AMERICAS | LA MEDIDA GREMIAL CONTINUA HOY Y MAÑANA
El subte funcionó, pero con alguna demora
 
DESPUES DE LOS TIROS
Retorna la calma en Avellaneda
 
INVESTIGACION JUDICIAL POR EL ATAQUE A LOS TRENES
Haedo: indagan a los detenidos y hoy deciden excarcelaciones
 
EL MARTES COMIENZAN LAS INDAGATORIAS DE LOS MILITARES IMPLICADOS
Actos en Río Tercero, a diez años de la trágica explosión
 
LUEGO DE LA CAIDA ELECTORAL DEL 23 DE OCTUBRE FRENTE A CRISTINA KIRCHNER
Chiche reapareció tras la derrota: reiteró que Duhalde deja la
política
Fue en una reunión donde legisladores del duhaldismo estrenaron bloque
y nombre.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | DATOS OFICIALES DE OCTUBRE
La inflación fue 0,8%: en diez meses roza el nivel esperado de todo
2005
Indumentaria y turismo impulsaron la suba. En lo que va del año, los
precios minoristas ya subieron 9,8%, cerca del 10,5% proyectado.
Economía apuesta a las inversiones para impulsar la oferta.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LA INFLACION SEGUN LA MIRADA DE LOS
ANALISTAS PRIVADOS
Para 2006, nadie espera menos del 10%
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | TIRONEOS CON LOS INDUSTRIALES
Los supermercados esperan más subas en carne, lácteos y frutas
Impactarán de aquí a fin de año. Y son por razones estacionales,
aseguran. También suponen que habrá ajustes en los productos de
tocador y limpieza.
 
LA MARCHA DE LOS PRECIOS | LAS ACCIONES SUBIERON CASI 3%. LA DIVISA
QUEDO EN $3
Repuntó la Bolsa y el Central intervino para sostener al dólar
 
TRAS LA AMENAZA DEL PRESIDENTE CHAVEZ DE REESTATIZAR SIDOR
Gestión oficial ante Venezuela por la siderúrgica de Techint
El ministro Julio De Vido se reunió ayer con el canciller venezolano,
Alí Rodríguez.
 
TRAMITE EN DIPUTADOS
Avanza una empresa satelital
 
TENDENCIA
El 35% de las pymes, con una mujer en el timón
 
CONFLICTO ENTRE LAS AUTORIDADES LOCALES Y TRASANDINAS
Los camiones brasileños siguen acaparando los fletes a Chile
Las cargas pasan por las rutas nacionales y dan trabajo a 7.000 camiones
por año
 
RENEGOCIACION DE LA AUTOPISTA EZEIZA-CAÑUELAS
Analizan suba en peajes
 
IMPORTACION DE GAS PARA 2006
Acuerdo con Bolivia
 
NEGOCIOS & MERCADO
usenet
2005-11-04 17:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago
[snip]
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the
police from French territory. So they hit back - sending in Special
Forces, known as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of
engagement.
Los CRS son ahora "Special Forces" ? Y si... desde que las armaron con
Kalachnikovs gracias a la popularidad creciente de Sarkozy...
Para los que no saben, los CRS ("Companias Republicanas de Seguridad")
es un cuerpo auxiliar de la policia especializado en el mantenimiento
del orden publico en las manifestaciones masivas (huelgas,
manifestaciones, conciertos, desfiles, cualquier lugar donde haya mucha
gente). Durante el verano, muchos de ellos son enviados a las playas y
actuan como bañeros. So much para las "Special Forces"...

Saludos

Mario "el franchute"
Réjean Laflamme
2005-11-04 18:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago
L'anglais, ailleurs. Zou !
Fortinbras
2005-11-04 19:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Mentiras! Amir Taheri es un comprobado hombre de la CIA. En ese caracter
redacto una interesante Biografia de Khomeini y el escandalo que provoco esa
biografia revelo su pertenencia a la CIA. La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa serioa, sino
con la miseria.

Muy poco informado el citar a un tan reconocido AGENTE PROVOCADOR DE USA COMO
AMIR TAHERI.

saludos cordiales

Fortinbras


n article <***@157.170.133.60>, ***@hotmail.co.il
says...
Post by ARIEL BOLUDOVSKY
By AMIR TAHERI
2 hours, 41 minutes ago
AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start - and the pattern is always the
same.
Bands of youths in balaclavas start by setting fire to parked cars, break
shop windows with baseball bats, wreck public telephones and ransack
cinemas, libraries and schools. When the police arrive on the scene, the
rioters attack them with stones, knives and baseball bats.
The police respond by firing tear-gas grenades and, on occasions, blank
shots in the air. Sometimes the youths fire back - with real bullets.
These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly
close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the
intifada that at the time of writing appears beyond control.
The troubles first began in Clichy-sous-Bois, an underprivileged suburb
east
of Paris, a week ago. France's bombastic interior minister, Nicholas
Sarkozy, responded by sending over 400 heavily armed policemen to "impose
the laws of the republic," and promised to crush "the louts and
hooligans"
within the day. Within a few days, however, it had dawned on anyone who
wanted to know that this was no "outburst by criminal elements" that
could
be handled with a mixture of braggadocio and batons.
By Monday, everyone in Paris was speaking of "an unprecedented crisis."
Both
Sarkozy and his boss, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, had to cancel
foreign trips to deal with the riots.
How did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week, a
stealing parts of parked cars.
Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened, as the police have not
been
present in that suburb for years.
The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody,
telephoned
the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her
building. The police were thus obliged to do something - which meant
entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them.
Once the police arrived on the scene, the youths - who had been reigning
over Clichy pretty unmolested for years - got really angry. A brief chase
took place in the street, and two of the youths, who were not actually
chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned-off area housing a
power
pylon. Both were electrocuted.
Once news of their deaths was out, Clichy was all up in arms.
With cries of "God is great," bands of youths armed with whatever they
could
get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee.
The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the
police
from French territory. So they hit back - sending in Special Forces,
known
as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.
Within hours, the original cause of the incidents was forgotten and the
issue jelled around a demand by the representatives of the rioters that
the
French police leave the "occupied territories." By midweek, the riots had
spread to three of the provinces neighboring Paris, with a population of
5.5
million.
But who lives in the affected areas? In Clichy itself, more than 80
percent
of the inhabitants are Muslim immigrants or their children, mostly from
Arab
and black Africa. In other affected towns, the Muslim immigrant community
accounts for 30 percent to 60 percent of the population. But these are
not
the only figures that matter. Average unemployment in the affected areas
is
estimated at around 30 percent and, when it comes to young would-be
workers,
reaches 60 percent.
In these suburban towns, built in the 1950s in imitation of the Soviet
social housing of the Stalinist era, people live in crammed conditions,
sometimes several generations in a tiny apartment, and see "real French
life" only on television.
The French used to flatter themselves for the success of their policy of
assimilation, which was supposed to turn immigrants from any background
into
"proper Frenchmen" within a generation at most.
That policy worked as long as immigrants came to France in drips and
drops
and thus could merge into a much larger mainstream. Assimilation,
however,
cannot work when in most schools in the affected areas, fewer than 20
percent of the pupils are native French speakers.
France has also lost another powerful mechanism for assimilation: the
obligatory military service abolished in the 1990s.
As the number of immigrants and their descendants increases in a
particular
locality, more and more of its native French inhabitants leave for
"calmer
places," thus making assimilation still more difficult.
In some areas, it is possible for an immigrant or his descendants to
spend a
whole life without ever encountering the need to speak French, let alone
familiarize himself with any aspect of the famous French culture.
The result is often alienation. And that, in turn, gives radical
Islamists
an opportunity to propagate their message of religious and cultural
apartheid.
Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the
population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the
Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right
to
organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its
religious beliefs.
In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In
these
areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab"
while
most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.
The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling
alcohol
and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas
and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local
administration.
A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of
The
French authorities should keep out.
"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the
local
"emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the
police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim
Brotherhood,
to negotiate an end to the hostilities.
President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore
because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of
Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim
community.
That illusion has now been shattered - and the Chirac administration,
already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be
clueless
about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a
"ticking time bomb."
It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse
to
assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that
Islam
offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.
So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an
adviser
to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in
which
Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a
new
cultural synthesis.
The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the
Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?
Suddenly, French politics has become worth watching again, even though
for
the wrong reasons.
Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly "Politique internationale,"
is a
member of Benador Associates.
rilke
2005-11-04 20:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fortinbras
La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa serioa, sino
con la miseria.
Violencia en París

La discriminación institucionalizada es la cuestión. La falta de
oportunidades económicas reales es el caldo de cultivo de la violencia
suburbana disparada en París

Opinión - 04-11-2005

La noche más violenta en una semana en varios suburbios parisienses
habitados por minorías norteafricanas y negras -incendios, disparos a
policías y bomberos- confirma la tardanza y el oportunismo con que el
Gobierno ha abordado una situación circunstancial que ha acabado
transformándose en seria crisis política. El presidente Chirac ha dejado
pasar el tiempo sin pronunciarse y su primer ministro sólo lo ha hecho
después de cinco días en los que el responsable de Interior ha atizado el
fuego con su política de mano dura sin matices.
Disturbios de características similares ocurren en otros países europeos con
fuerte presión inmigratoria, desde Reino Unido a Alemania, pasando por
Holanda o incipientemente España. Y tienen carácter recurrente en Francia,
que proclama orgullosamente un ideal de igualdad, pero aparca a los
proscritos en guetos fuera de la vista de la mayoría. Los protagonistas de
esta revuelta creciente -iniciada con la muerte accidental de dos
adolescentes- son jóvenes, inmigrantes de segunda generación, que sienten
poco apego por un país donde carecen de oportunidades dignas de tal nombre.
Las raíces hay que buscarlas 30 o 40 años atrás, con la llegada masiva de
inmigrantes africanos y el crecimiento de deprimentes aglomeraciones en las
afueras de las grandes ciudades. Estos suburbios son ahora guetos étnicos,
en los que la policía raramente se aventura y donde se vive casi al margen
de la ley.
Casi todo en Francia está hoy contaminado por las presidenciales de 2007, y
la respuesta a la violencia suburbial parisiense no es una excepción. Las
discrepancias y la abierta rivalidad entre el ministro del Interior y el
jefe del Gobierno, aspirantes ambos de la derecha a la jefatura del Estado,
se han trasladado al manejo de la crisis. Sarkozy habla de firmeza y
justicia, pero exhibe sólo contundencia policial y estigmatiza a los
insurrectos como "escoria" y "matones". De Villepin ha roto su ominoso
silencio para señalar que no hay soluciones milagrosas a la situación de los
suburbios y anunciar un enésimo plan para combatir su marginación.
Pero en el mejor de los casos, los programas sociales son un parche y la
policía por sí sola nunca resolverá el conflicto de integración que subyace
en los enfrentamientos. La discriminación institucionalizada es la cuestión.
La falta de oportunidades económicas reales es el caldo de cultivo de la
violencia suburbana disparada en París.

www.elpais.es
Nitouche
2005-11-04 20:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa serioa, sino
con la miseria.
Violencia en París
Quiere tener la cortesía de no escribir sobre un foro francófono otra
lengua que el francés!!! ¡Gracias!
RLunfa
2005-11-04 22:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa
serioa,
Post by Nitouche
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
sino
con la miseria.
Violencia en París
Quiere tener la cortesía de no escribir sobre un foro francófono otra
lengua que el francés!!! ¡Gracias!
No (français)

RLunfa
rilke
2005-11-05 00:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nitouche
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa serioa, sino
con la miseria.
Violencia en París
Quiere tener la cortesía de no escribir sobre un foro francófono otra
lengua que el francés!!! ¡Gracias!
Callate boludo!

r.
RLunfa
2005-11-05 01:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by rilke
Post by Nitouche
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
La violencia en Francia nada tiene
que ver con el Islam, como lo informan todos los medios de prensa
serioa,
Post by rilke
Post by Nitouche
Post by rilke
Post by Fortinbras
sino
con la miseria.
Violencia en París
Quiere tener la cortesía de no escribir sobre un foro francófono otra
lengua que el francés!!! ¡Gracias!
Callate boludo!
Esto es muy correcto pero no está en francés.

Saludos,
RLunfa
Chuck
2006-02-08 16:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Primary question: How many Jews died (and how many were deliberately killed)
during WWII? How do we know? In how many Western Democracies is doubting the
"correct number " of Jewish victims during WWII now against the law? (seven)

It's known that after the second world war, the Red Cross put the number of
Jewish deaths at considerably less than one million. That's still a lot of
dead people. Yes, it is theoretically possible that 6,000,000 Jews were
killed during the war, but--forgive me--I sense a bold exaggeration.

But aside from that, since when is skepticism a crime? Where are the bodies,
for instance? May I have a list of names, please?

Even the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Israel, after 60 years, can only
muster three million names, and many of those names are of Jews who merely
died (or disappeared) during WWII, causes unknown. Many names appear more
than once. In a similar vein, while the number of Jews murdered at Auschwitz
was officially reduced by millions in recent years, the irreducible number
of "six million Jews" remains. Isn't it possible that there's some
politically-motivated chicanery here?

It is, after all, indisputable that some earlier "facts" regarding the
Holocaust have been streamlined and smoothed out for popular consumption.
The lamp shade and human soap stories, for instance, have been quietly
retired. The secret dealings between Nazis and Zionists during WWII have
been suppressed. Another ignored fact concerns the lethal Typhus epidemics
in the death camps. Why have they been airbrushed from popular memory?

One problem is that all the "experts" tend to be Jewish and show bias on the
subject. How many Germans died in WWII? FiveÊmillion? Actually I'm not sure,
since their suffering isn't supposed to matter and therefore their
casualties aren't noted. What was the total number of dead in WWII?--50
million? How many have died in wars during the 20th Century?--275 million?
(that's Zbig. Brezinski's estimate). Considering this, even if six million
Jews were deliberately killed during WWII, shouldn't we demand that the
Zionized world stop caring so singularly about Jewish suffering? The Jewish
obsession with everything Jewish is shamefully narcissistic and burdensome.
Their defiant ethnocentrism is an ongoing insult to the rest of the human
race.

As for the "un-revisable" six million figure, Jews have superstitious
reasons pertaining to the number "six" for claiming that six million died.
In fact, similar charges about six million Jews were made, incredibly, in
1919, concerning the fantastic number of Jews facing death during WWI. These
nutty allegations were even published in the NY Times. The claimants were
Jewish.

Jews for the Whole Truth
Viejo Vizcacha
2006-02-08 17:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Chuck wrote:

Chuck. La idea era hacer un chiste sobre el holocausto, no convertirse
uno en el chiste usando el holocausto.

VV
Chuck
2006-02-08 17:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Para que mas.Ya se han hecho demasiado. El mito esta totalmente
desacreditado hoy por hoy.

Chuck
Post by Viejo Vizcacha
Chuck. La idea era hacer un chiste sobre el holocausto, no convertirse
uno en el chiste usando el holocausto.
VV
Ernesto
2006-02-08 18:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Que fueran 3 o 6 millones no cambia nada. El hecho es que los campos de
concentración y de exterminio existieron y no fueron un invento. Y los
republicanos españoles, y los comunistas alemanes o los miembros de las
"razas inferiores" que también murieron en esos campos, supongo que también
cuentan.

Que los judíos prefieran ampararse en esa cifra pues bueno Me da igual, para
eso están los historiadores.
. Ni eso niega la existencia del genocidio ni eso les da salvoconducto para
perpetrar barbaridades con los palestinos.
Post by Chuck
Para que mas.Ya se han hecho demasiado. El mito esta totalmente
desacreditado hoy por hoy.
Chuck
Post by Viejo Vizcacha
Chuck. La idea era hacer un chiste sobre el holocausto, no convertirse
uno en el chiste usando el holocausto.
VV
usenet
2006-02-08 22:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ernesto
Que fueran 3 o 6 millones no cambia nada. El hecho es que los campos de
concentración y de exterminio existieron y no fueron un invento. Y los
republicanos españoles, y los comunistas alemanes o los miembros de las
"razas inferiores" que también murieron en esos campos, supongo que también
cuentan.
No te gastes, Ernesto. El nazichuck hace esto simplemente para buscar
roña. Si insistis, nos va a contar tambien que Videla nunca le hizo mal
a una mosca y que Suarez Mason es un dechado de honestidad.

Saludos

mario "el franchute"
usenet
2006-02-08 22:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck
Para que mas.Ya se han hecho demasiado. El mito esta totalmente
desacreditado hoy por hoy.
El nazichuck repite esto todas las mañanas para autoconvencerse. El
problema, es que solo le quedan cinco o seis mil millones de personas a
convencer...

Saludos

mario "el franchute"

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