Discussion:
We've all got one?
(too old to reply)
Vicky Ayech
2020-06-06 18:24:41 UTC
Permalink
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Sally Thompson
2020-06-07 09:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Vicky Ayech
2020-06-07 10:59:49 UTC
Permalink
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
Serena Blanchflower
2020-06-07 11:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
I've just checked mine and the first thing it says is:

To turn on COVID-19 exposure
notifications, open an available app

This makes me think that it isn't the contact tracing app which has been
downloaded but some essential updates to Android, which will enable the
app to work, once its been released.
--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
I finally got my head together, and my body fell apart.
Vicky Ayech
2020-06-07 16:05:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:08:18 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Vicky
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
To turn on COVID-19 exposure
notifications, open an available app
This makes me think that it isn't the contact tracing app which has been
downloaded but some essential updates to Android, which will enable the
app to work, once its been released.
Yes. Currently the updates do not enable it to work but there are
going to be changed in a further update that will enable it without
the ap eventually. And it will send data back automatically about your
whereabouts. Apparently.
Serena Blanchflower
2020-06-07 16:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:08:18 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Vicky
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
To turn on COVID-19 exposure
notifications, open an available app
This makes me think that it isn't the contact tracing app which has been
downloaded but some essential updates to Android, which will enable the
app to work, once its been released.
Yes. Currently the updates do not enable it to work but there are
going to be changed in a further update that will enable it without
the ap eventually. And it will send data back automatically about your
whereabouts. Apparently.
Where did you hear that? The info about the update says that you have
to specifically install an app, in order to activate it.
--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. (Carroll Bryant)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-06-07 17:02:45 UTC
Permalink
(When I saw the subject, I was reminded of the saying "opinions are like
..."!)

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 17:33:31, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:08:18 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
I thought it only used the BT (bluetooth) to log _who_ you were near,
not _where_; I didn't think BT had location information. Unless it's
going to get location from the other person's phone if that has 5G,
which I'd be very uneasy about.
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
the ap eventually. And it will send data back automatically about your
whereabouts. Apparently.
Again, that uneases (?) me. I know the usual argument about "if you've
got nothing to hide", but. I certainly wouldn't object to it logging who
[or to be more accurate, which 'phone numbers: that distinction is
important!] I was near, as that would help track and trace, for exactly
the case often described, of the person in the supermarket queue (or
bus), who you probably _don't_ know the identity of. But tracking my
_location_ is a bit too Big Brother for me.
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Where did you hear that? The info about the update says that you have
to specifically install an app, in order to activate it.
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support it
- will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example? I
can't see that just logging people [or rather numbers!] you're close to
for more than a minute or two needs any great processing power
(obviously the 'phone has to have BT and an Android - or iOS - that
knows how to use it), but recent experience with apps and software in
general is that developers are lazy and don't cater for older OSs.
(Though in this case, as I've said, it doesn't need anything fancy.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die -
attributed to Carrie Fisher by Gareth McLean, in Radio Times 28 January-3
February 2012
Sjouke Burry
2020-06-07 17:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(When I saw the subject, I was reminded of the saying "opinions are like
..."!)
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 17:33:31, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:08:18 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
I thought it only used the BT (bluetooth) to log _who_ you were near,
not _where_; I didn't think BT had location information. Unless it's
going to get location from the other person's phone if that has 5G,
which I'd be very uneasy about.
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
the ap eventually. And it will send data back automatically about your
whereabouts. Apparently.
Again, that uneases (?) me. I know the usual argument about "if you've
got nothing to hide", but. I certainly wouldn't object to it logging who
[or to be more accurate, which 'phone numbers: that distinction is
important!] I was near, as that would help track and trace, for exactly
the case often described, of the person in the supermarket queue (or
bus), who you probably _don't_ know the identity of. But tracking my
_location_ is a bit too Big Brother for me.
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Where did you hear that? The info about the update says that you have
to specifically install an app, in order to activate it.
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support it
- will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example? I
can't see that just logging people [or rather numbers!] you're close to
for more than a minute or two needs any great processing power
(obviously the 'phone has to have BT and an Android - or iOS - that
knows how to use it), but recent experience with apps and software in
general is that developers are lazy and don't cater for older OSs.
(Though in this case, as I've said, it doesn't need anything fancy.)
Hmmm... see how long your battery lasts with bleutooth always on.
Also, is they query your GPS, your battery will be flat even sooner.
carolet
2020-06-07 19:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(When I saw the subject, I was reminded of the saying "opinions are like
..."!)
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 17:33:31, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:08:18 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location.  Without  bluetooth being on.  Mine is off.
I thought it only used the BT (bluetooth) to log _who_ you were near,
not _where_; I didn't think BT had location information. Unless it's
going to get location from the other person's phone if that has 5G,
which I'd be very uneasy about.
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
the ap eventually. And it will send data back automatically about your
whereabouts. Apparently.
Again, that uneases (?) me. I know the usual argument about "if you've
got nothing to hide", but. I certainly wouldn't object to it logging who
[or to be more accurate, which 'phone numbers: that distinction is
important!] I was near, as that would help track and trace, for exactly
the case often described, of the person in the supermarket queue (or
bus), who you probably _don't_ know the identity of. But tracking my
_location_ is a bit too Big Brother for me.
Is it phone numbers? I thought it was something more cryptic than that,
essentially a random number. If I come down with it, I don't think my
phone would be able to contact my contacts' phones directly, it would
have to contact the central control, which would then interpret my
contact list so that my contacts' phones could be contacted.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Where did you hear that?  The info about the update says that you have
to specifically install an app, in order to activate it.
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support it
- will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example? I
can't see that just logging people [or rather numbers!] you're close to
for more than a minute or two needs any great processing power
(obviously the 'phone has to have BT and an Android - or iOS - that
knows how to use it), but recent experience with apps and software in
general is that developers are lazy and don't cater for older OSs.
(Though in this case, as I've said, it doesn't need anything fancy.)
--
CaroleT
Chris B
2020-06-08 09:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support it
- will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example? I
can't see that just logging people [or rather numbers!] you're close to
for more than a minute or two needs any great processing power
(obviously the 'phone has to have BT and an Android - or iOS - that
knows how to use it), but recent experience with apps and software in
general is that developers are lazy and don't cater for older OSs.
(Though in this case, as I've said, it doesn't need anything fancy.)
If you are still on Andriod 4.2.2 I would be surprised if it is ever
available for that version. For now
https://covid19.nhs.uk/using-the-app.html
reveals

"It currently supports Apple iOS versions 11 and higher, and Android
versions 8 and higher. We are looking to support earlier versions of
these operating systems in future where possible".

I think that there is some confusion elsewhere in this thread about the
decentralised model (which the UK NHS are not using but many other
countries are) and the centralised model (favoured by the UK NHS). The
recent android update is to allow the decentralised model apps to work.

This blog post gives a good background to the differences
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app
--
Chris B (News)
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2020-06-08 10:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Android 5.1.1 here.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-06-08 18:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris B
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support
it - will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example?
[]
Post by Chris B
If you are still on Andriod 4.2.2 I would be surprised if it is ever
available for that version. For now
https://covid19.nhs.uk/using-the-app.html
reveals
"It currently supports Apple iOS versions 11 and higher, and Android
versions 8 and higher. We are looking to support earlier versions of
these operating systems in future where possible".
Wow, things move fast; I thought Android 6 was still considered quite
up-to-date. And I don't see what the difficulty is: just logging numbers
isn't really something that requires fancy processing ability!
Post by Chris B
I think that there is some confusion elsewhere in this thread about the
decentralised model (which the UK NHS are not using but many other
countries are) and the centralised model (favoured by the UK NHS). The
recent android update is to allow the decentralised model apps to work.
This blog post gives a good background to the differences
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app
Hmm. "runs well on the supported devices, including quite old ones";
"won’t drain your battery or stop other apps working properly".
"removing self diagnosis makes managing the disease very, very hard in
the UK."
That's a long (and I'd say good, if you can maintain your concentration)
article!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There's too much attention paid to how TV can be bad for you, but I think it's
good for us more often than it's bad - Professor Barrie Gunter of Sheffield
University (quoted in RT, 15-21 March 2003).
Chris B
2020-06-08 19:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Wow, things move fast; I thought Android 6 was still considered quite
up-to-date. And I don't see what the difficulty is: just logging numbers
isn't really something that requires fancy processing ability!
I don't think its really the number crunching that is causing the
problem but the bluetooth implementation. Getting two devices (one of
which may be android one ios) to communicate with one another via
bluetooth when both phones are in a "standby" state and neither device
has the tracking app in the foreground is what is causing most of the
heart ache.

In the early days most of the industry experts said "it cant be done"
(and maybe it cant - only time will tell) but quite some numbers were
surprised when the app was rolled out on the IoW, working in a way that
was allegedly technically impossible. The conspiracy theorists
suggesting that GCHQ had found weaknesses in both sets of software
operating systems and this was being exploited. This may or may not be
the case I couldn't possibly comment.

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2020/04/29/claims-that-gchq-advised-coronavirus-track-and-trace-app-has-security-and-privacy-flaws/
--
Chris B (News)
Sam Plusnet
2020-06-08 21:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris B
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Is there any indication yet as to what level of Android won't support
it - will it work on 4.2.2 (which IIRR is what mine is), for example?
I can't see that just logging people [or rather numbers!] you're close
to for more than a minute or two needs any great processing power
(obviously the 'phone has to have BT and an Android - or iOS - that
knows how to use it), but recent experience with apps and software in
general is that developers are lazy and don't cater for older OSs.
(Though in this case, as I've said, it doesn't need anything fancy.)
If you are still on Andriod 4.2.2 I would be surprised if it is ever
available for that version.  For now
https://covid19.nhs.uk/using-the-app.html
reveals
"It currently supports Apple iOS versions 11 and higher, and Android
versions 8 and higher. We are looking to support earlier versions of
these operating systems in future where possible".
I think that there is some confusion elsewhere in this thread about the
decentralised model (which the UK NHS are not using but many other
countries are) and the centralised model (favoured by the UK NHS).  The
recent android update is to allow the decentralised model apps to work.
This blog post gives a good background to the differences
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app
Thanks for that link, it helps to have some idea of how this thing is
intended to function.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Withey
2020-06-07 11:22:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:59:49 +0100, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
Now you've pointed it out I do have that but the first thing it says
on the page is "To turn on COVID-19 Exposure Notifications - Open an
available app". I don't have one installed atm.

Further down the page under "learn more" it say "To use the system,
you need to download your public health authority's app" which isn't
available in my area yet.
--
Pete
Sally Thompson
2020-06-07 15:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
This is not the same on an iPhone (I don't have "services" under Google,
though I hardly ever use Google), but I would still be wary that something
has installed (not updated) without your agreement.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Penny
2020-06-07 16:24:09 UTC
Permalink
On 7 Jun 2020 15:20:42 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
This is not the same on an iPhone (I don't have "services" under Google,
though I hardly ever use Google), but I would still be wary that something
has installed (not updated) without your agreement.
No, it's an Android thing - Google produce Android.
I have what Vicky has found on my tablet, which only leaves the house if
I'm going to an appointment (so I have a book to read) or to college,
neither of which will be happening for some time.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2020-06-07 18:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On 7 Jun 2020 15:20:42 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
On 7 Jun 2020 09:52:10 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
Personally, I would be very careful about that. My phone updates
automatically too but it would never actually install something new without
my agreement. I will certainly download the official NHS tracker when it
comes but it isn't available yet unless you're on the Isle of Wight. (I've
just checked!)
Check under google settings.
Go to settings
Google
it is then the first item I see under services. Covid-19 exposure
notifications. I didn't install it, updates are automatically
installed. It tells me i can't be traced unless I turn bluetooth on as
3 and 4 g are not adequate to track but 5 g will be down to very exact
location. Without bluetooth being on. Mine is off.
This is not the same on an iPhone (I don't have "services" under Google,
though I hardly ever use Google), but I would still be wary that something
has installed (not updated) without your agreement.
No, it's an Android thing - Google produce Android.
I have what Vicky has found on my tablet, which only leaves the house if
I'm going to an appointment (so I have a book to read) or to college,
neither of which will be happening for some time.
I was taking it when I walk alone although no t the later dog walk.
But am inclined to leave it at home now. My phone number is on my keys
in case I have need to be identified. I have my ccs in the phone case
but could take them out to go shopping. I could get a simple
voice/text phone. Just use this one when use whats ap. Which I
recentlty learned to use :)
Penny
2020-06-07 22:00:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 19:53:09 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
I was taking it when I walk alone although no t the later dog walk.
But am inclined to leave it at home now. My phone number is on my keys
in case I have need to be identified. I have my ccs in the phone case
but could take them out to go shopping. I could get a simple
voice/text phone. Just use this one when use whats ap. Which I
recentlty learned to use :)
Where did you hear it would automagically install an app without your
consent? I am very sceptical about that.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2020-06-08 06:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
I was taking it when I walk alone although no t the later dog walk.
But am inclined to leave it at home now. My phone number is on my keys
in case I have need to be identified. I have my ccs in the phone case
but could take them out to go shopping. I could get a simple
voice/text phone. Just use this one when use whats ap. Which I
recentlty learned to use :)
Where did you hear it would automagically install an app without your
consent? I am very sceptical about that.
Not that it would install the ap but that the software that is already
there would be changed to not need the ap to connect. Apparently a
closed group. The in-house geek reads a lot on these things and
doesn't trust anyone. On the other hand I am the branch of the family
that is here, unlike my father's branch, who stopped in around 1942.
There are parallels.
Peter Withey
2020-06-07 10:15:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 06 Jun 2020 19:24:41 +0100, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
My phone does updates automatically. B just showed me that it has
installed via google settings, which I didn't know I have as don't use
it on the phone, they have installed a virus tracker! So they can
activate it.
I haven't received, yet! Thanks for the heads-up, I'll keep a lookout.

I'm happy to use one if it helps to kill the virus but I'd like to be
advised before it's downloaded and installed.
--
Pete
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