Discussion:
Opus 1
(too old to reply)
HT
2019-08-02 07:21:06 UTC
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I never heard Medtner's Opus 1 and am glad I finally did. Certainly in this performance by Derzhavina:



Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?

Henk
Bozo
2019-08-02 13:51:47 UTC
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Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Samuil Feinberg's Piano Sonata No.1 :

Frank Berger
2019-08-02 14:47:54 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Samuil Feinberg's Piano Sonata No.1 : http://youtu.be/NtDZ2ppQ49Y
I think he meant other recordings of Medtner's op. 1, Stimmungsbilder.

I am aware of 3 recordings of all 8. Geoffrey Tozer, Hamish Milne and
Ekaterina Derzhavina. Svetlanov recorded 3 of them. While no expert in
this music, from what I've heard I think Milne is best.
HT
2019-08-03 13:22:58 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I am aware of 3 recordings of all 8. Geoffrey Tozer, Hamish Milne and
Ekaterina Derzhavina. Svetlanov recorded 3 of them. While no expert in
this music, from what I've heard I think Milne is best.
Frank, I didn't know there were 8 versions. I only heard Tozer, Derzhavina, and Svetlanov. I'll try to find to other 5, including Milne.

Thanks,
Henk
Frank Berger
2019-08-04 02:38:51 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Frank Berger
I am aware of 3 recordings of all 8. Geoffrey Tozer, Hamish Milne and
Ekaterina Derzhavina. Svetlanov recorded 3 of them. While no expert in
this music, from what I've heard I think Milne is best.
Frank, I didn't know there were 8 versions. I only heard Tozer, Derzhavina, and Svetlanov. I'll try to find to other 5, including Milne.
Thanks,
Henk
I meant the 8 movements or sections of op. 1. AFAIK, Svetlanov only
recorded 3 of them. Is that wrong? When you asked for more
suggestions on op.1 did you in fact mean opus 1s by other composers as
everybody but me thought? Or did you mean other recordings of Medtner's
op. 1 as my puny brain thought?
HT
2019-08-04 09:48:03 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I meant the 8 movements or sections of op. 1. AFAIK, Svetlanov only
recorded 3 of them. Is that wrong? When you asked for more
suggestions on op.1 did you in fact mean opus 1s by other composers as
everybody but me thought? Or did you mean other recordings of Medtner's
op. 1 as my puny brain thought?
Frank, I was looking for Opus 1's in general. I could have said so more clearly.

It's clear that you meant the 8 movements of Medtner's Op. 1. Why I misread it, I don't know. But I went looking for other versions of Op. 1/1 on YT and Amazon and came to the conclusion that this piece is far more popular than I expected. I also noticed that I had overlooked Sudbin's version (an excellent one).

Henk
Frank Berger
2019-08-04 13:11:28 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Frank Berger
I meant the 8 movements or sections of op. 1. AFAIK, Svetlanov only
recorded 3 of them. Is that wrong? When you asked for more
suggestions on op.1 did you in fact mean opus 1s by other composers as
everybody but me thought? Or did you mean other recordings of Medtner's
op. 1 as my puny brain thought?
Frank, I was looking for Opus 1's in general. I could have said so more clearly.
It's clear that you meant the 8 movements of Medtner's Op. 1. Why I misread it, I don't know. But I went looking for other versions of Op. 1/1 on YT and Amazon and came to the conclusion that this piece is far more popular than I expected. I also noticed that I had overlooked Sudbin's version (an excellent one).
Henk
Punyness (puniness?) of my brain confirmed.
Bozo
2019-08-02 14:54:43 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Samuil Feinberg's Piano Sonata No.1 : http://youtu.be/NtDZ2ppQ49Y
Forgot to mention BIS has cd sets of all the Feinberg piano sonatas, cd's I have and I can recommend,different pianists.Hamelin has been playing Nos. 1 and 2 in some recent recitals.

Also,Gierr Tveitt's PC # 1 , I have on a Naxos cd I believe with these artists:


MiNe109
2019-08-02 14:19:50 UTC
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Post by HT
http://youtu.be/dMXMCzFbYiw
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Berg?

Stephen
HT
2019-08-03 13:08:09 UTC
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Post by HT
http://youtu.be/dMXMCzFbYiw
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Berg?
An Opus 1 and a true masterpiece! Thanks!

Henk
JohnGavin
2019-08-02 14:51:38 UTC
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Only a great composer could write this deeply in their office number one. I know that his first piano Sonata Op. 5 was written when he was 16 years old so considering he might’ve been 15 or even 14 when he wrote these pieces.

I am somewhat imprinted on the Tozer Recording which is a little more classic and less Markedly emotional. Which performance one will prefer depends, naturally and one is temperamental preference.
Bozo
2019-08-02 17:47:21 UTC
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Only a great composer could write this deeply in their office number one. I know that his first piano Sonata >Op. 5 was written when he was 16 years old ...
I had missed that fact. Holy cow , that's a magnificent sonata which Debargue played at the 2015 Tchaikovsky Competition. Does the theme of his Op.1,#3," Maestoso freddo " appear in another Medtner piano work, a Skazki or sonata ?
JohnGavin
2019-08-02 17:54:33 UTC
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I had missed that fact. Holy cow , that's a magnificent sonata which Debargue played at the 2015 Tchaikovsky Competition. Does the theme of his Op.1,#3," Maestoso freddo " appear in another Medtner piano work, a Skazki or sonata ?

I don’t think so, but the first piece is an exact piano solo version of one of his songs which can be heard on the Ludmilla Andrew/ Tozer CD on Chandos.
Bozo
2019-08-02 21:19:16 UTC
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Hamish Milne's liner notes to his Hyperion cd of the work :

"One of the most frequently repeated quotations about Medtner is Rachmaninov’s assertion that only he ‘from the beginning, published works that it would be hard for him to equal in later life’, and this is exemplified by Medtner’s very first published composition, the Prologue (inspired by Lermontov’s poem The Angel) which opens his set of Stimmungsbilder (‘Mood Pictures’) Op 1. Already perfect in form, it achieves a wonderful serenity as it approaches and recedes from its impassioned climax. The poem is worth reproducing in full, since its message lies behind the central tenet of his artistic creed and he used the same text again some thirty-five years later as a preface to his book The Muse and Fashion (Edition Tair, Paris 1935), in which he pleaded for a return to the fundamental natural laws of music as evolved from the ‘primordial song’ of man.

According to Bernard Pinsonneault, Medtner’s Canadian pupil and disciple, the composer only realized some years later ‘to his stupefaction’ that the text of the poem fitted exactly, and completely fortuitously, the rhythm of the melodic line of the Prologue. With only minimal amendment, it was published in a vocal version, Op 1bis.

The remaining pieces in this Op 1 set do not reach or even aspire to this elevated plane: indeed many of them are reworkings of pieces from his early teenage years. However they all reveal qualities of invention and originality which set them poles apart from the plethora of sentimental salon pieces of that era. The violent protestations of No 2 find no comfort and die away to nothing. No 3 (Maestoso freddo) is a march with a hint of menace, while No 4 is a lyrical effusion with touches of the rhythmical sleight of hand which were to become one of Medtner’s trademarks. Another quotation from Lermontov heads No 5 (‘Through swirling snowstorm and roaring wind a distant bell tolls—it is a funeral chime’). The exuberant jollity of No 6 (Allegro con humore) suggests the festivities of a Russian village fair, which feature regularly in Russian music, literature and painting. Some have heard the lurching rhythm of the central section as an incongruous tango, but surely it is more likely a wild Cossack or Gypsy dance. Another typically Medtnerian device makes an early appearance in No 7, the interlocking of dislocated rhythms between the hands. Its mood oscillates between the furious (con ira) and the plaintive. The final piece, on the other hand, is all grace and amiable elegance, its simple message rendered more sophisticated by its rhythmical pattern of eight notes in the right hand against a three-note waltz in the left. Alexander Goldenweiser, only five years older than Medtner but already a voice of some authority by virtue of his connection to Tolstoy, adjudged the opus ‘no tentative experiments but the work of a mature and original talent’."
HT
2019-08-03 13:36:44 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Only a great composer could write this deeply in their office number one. I know that his first piano Sonata Op. 5 was written when he was 16 years old so considering he might’ve been 15 or even 14 when he wrote these pieces.
Yes, it is a remarkable piece for such a young man. But then, as this thread proves, great composers don't seem to care about how young they are.

Henk
JohnGavin
2019-08-03 14:12:19 UTC
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This is cheating, but I would draw attention to Durufle’s op 5 Suite for organ. I never tire of this piece. He composed it at a young age. If Durufle had just composed more music he would occupy the top rank of French composers IMO.
s***@hotmail.com
2019-08-03 15:28:02 UTC
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You may perhaps already know Mozart’s “second” opus 1 - better known as K 301-306 (his first opus 1 is K 6-7)?

Soeren
Ricardo Jimenez
2019-08-02 15:57:10 UTC
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Post by HT
http://youtu.be/dMXMCzFbYiw
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Henk
I assume you have heard the Beethoven, Schubert and Brahms Operas 1.
Berlioz Eight Scenes from Faust, also qualifies as a great opus 1 from
a great composer, I think.
HT
2019-08-03 13:28:05 UTC
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Post by Ricardo Jimenez
I assume you have heard the Beethoven, Schubert and Brahms Operas 1.
Berlioz Eight Scenes from Faust, also qualifies as a great opus 1 from
a great composer, I think.
This morning I've been listening to (parts of) Berlioz' Eight Scenes. As almost all the Opus 1's mentioned in this thread, it's a remarkable achievement. I don't understand why he disowned the work later.

Henk
cdc
2019-08-02 23:12:44 UTC
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Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Prokofiev Piano Sonata No. 1 in F minor Op. 1


HT
2019-08-04 15:51:39 UTC
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Post by cdc
Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Prokofiev Piano Sonata No. 1 in F minor Op. 1
http://youtu.be/APxweGUCqIs
Thanks, it's a lovely piece. But then, I like the earlier sonatas better than the later ones (the war sonatas).

Henk
cdc
2019-08-02 23:31:07 UTC
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Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Karol Szymanowski: 9 Preludes, Op.1


Bozo
2019-08-03 02:09:12 UTC
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Post by cdc
Karol Szymanowski: 9 Preludes, Op.1
Very nice.
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-03 12:16:13 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by cdc
Karol Szymanowski: 9 Preludes, Op.1
Very nice.
Indeed. Also Dohnányi Piano Quintet in C minor; Josef Suk, Piano Quartet in A minor. Cheating a bit: Zemlinsky's op. 2 is a nice set of songs, and his op. 3 is the lovely Clarinet Trio.

AC
HT
2019-08-04 13:14:18 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Indeed. Also Dohnányi Piano Quintet in C minor; Josef Suk, Piano Quartet in A minor. Cheating a bit: Zemlinsky's op. 2 is a nice set of songs, and his op. 3 is the lovely Clarinet Trio.
The adagio in Suk's quintet s remarkable. BTW is this the composer playing?



Henk
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-04 17:30:08 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by c***@gmail.com
Indeed. Also Dohnányi Piano Quintet in C minor; Josef Suk, Piano Quartet in A minor. Cheating a bit: Zemlinsky's op. 2 is a nice set of songs, and his op. 3 is the lovely Clarinet Trio.
The adagio in Suk's quintet s remarkable. BTW is this the composer playing?
http://youtu.be/9y1oRQizgdE
Henk
Yes, that movement is gorgeous. Don't confuse the Piano Quartet op. 1 with equally lovely the Piano Quintet op. 8, btw. The late Josef Suk who is performing in the video was the composer's grandson (and Dvořák's great-grandson). Supraphon issued a lovely set of the elder Suk's chamber music in which the younger one performs. I think the individual volumes are still available, if not the boxed set. This volume is especially desirable, imo: https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1350-suk-klavirni-trio-op-2-kvartet-pro-klavir-op-1?artistId=136.

AC
JohnGavin
2019-08-05 11:31:10 UTC
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Returning to Medtner - I would encourage anyone to proceed to op. 2. It gets even better. 3 Improvisations. Wonderfully imaginative music.
Steve Emerson
2019-08-22 03:59:11 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Bozo
Post by cdc
Karol Szymanowski: 9 Preludes, Op.1
Very nice.
Indeed. Also Dohnányi Piano Quintet in C minor; Josef Suk, Piano Quartet in A minor. Cheating a bit: Zemlinsky's op. 2 is a nice set of songs, and his op. 3 is the lovely Clarinet Trio.
Dohnanyi a particular standout, for my money. As is the Berg sonata cited elsewhere.

SE.
HT
2019-08-04 12:55:31 UTC
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Post by cdc
Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Karol Szymanowski: 9 Preludes, Op.1
http://youtu.be/7AqXrydTmHg
Overall even more interesting than Medtner's Op. 1 2-8.

Henk
cdc
2019-08-02 23:53:01 UTC
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Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Arnold Schoenberg: 2 Songs for baritone, Op. 1 (1898)

Remarkable the second song: Abschied
(even if G.Gould found it boring...)


cdc
2019-08-21 17:54:43 UTC
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Post by HT
other Opus 1
Cajkovskij (1840-1893)

Two Pieces for piano (1867) Op. 1

It is interesting to note that Cajkovskij's op.1 was written when he was
27 years old. It is relatively late, yet it has become one of the
greatest composers ever.
Steve Emerson
2019-08-21 18:46:18 UTC
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Post by HT
http://youtu.be/dMXMCzFbYiw
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Henk
Schumann Abegg Variations is a strong start, and a more representative work than many Op. 1's. Not representative, but riveting, is Chopin's Op. 1 -- which one doesn't run into often. Bashkirov made a specialty of it.

SE.
Bozo
2019-08-21 20:24:55 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Not representative, but riveting, is Chopin's Op. 1 -- which one doesn't run into often.
Thanks for the reminder ; indeed a wonderful work.
Not a Dentist
2019-08-21 20:42:42 UTC
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Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
Steve Emerson
2019-08-22 03:57:53 UTC
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Post by Not a Dentist
Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
They're pretty good, those KZ performances, but so are Freire and particularly Sokolov; though not remembering if both have done each of the two first ones.

One reason Brahms's Op 1 is so good is that it was written second; Op 2 was written first, as you're probably aware.

SE.
Not a Dentist
2019-08-22 20:47:59 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Not a Dentist
Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
They're pretty good, those KZ performances, but so are Freire and particularly Sokolov; though not remembering if both have done each of the two first ones.
One reason Brahms's Op 1 is so good is that it was written second; Op 2 was written first, as you're probably aware.
SE.
Yes, they were switched for publication. Cannot find Opus 1 on any Freire or Sokolov recordings, although both have done Opus 5 (Freire just made a new one for Decca; must hear that!).
Steve Emerson
2019-08-23 00:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Not a Dentist
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Not a Dentist
Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
They're pretty good, those KZ performances, but so are Freire and particularly Sokolov; though not remembering if both have done each of the two first ones.
One reason Brahms's Op 1 is so good is that it was written second; Op 2 was written first, as you're probably aware.
SE.
Yes, they were switched for publication. Cannot find Opus 1 on any Freire or Sokolov recordings, although both have done Opus 5 (Freire just made a new one for Decca; must hear that!).
There are winked-at bootlegs of Sokolov in #1, at least three of which can be found on Youtube. His aversion to official releases may keep things this way.

Helsinki 1995 --


Bergen 1997 --


And one from Madrid available as part of a complete 1998 recital.

My files and records fail me on Freire, though I believe he has both in his repertoire.

SE.
Bozo
2019-08-23 01:36:10 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
My files and records fail me on Freire, though I believe he has both in his repertoire.
I have an mp3 download of Freire playing Brahms' 2nd Piano Sonata, although I failed to record date , venue, possibly a recital in NYC in 2009. https://www.instantencore.com/concert/details.aspx?PId=5024326
Bozo
2019-08-23 01:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
My files and records fail me on Freire, though I believe he has both in his repertoire.
Terrible sound,Freire playing Brahms' 2nd Sonata :

Steve Emerson
2019-08-23 18:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bozo
Post by Steve Emerson
My files and records fail me on Freire, though I believe he has both in his repertoire.
I have an mp3 download of Freire playing Brahms' 2nd Piano Sonata, although I failed to record date , venue, possibly a recital in NYC in 2009. https://www.instantencore.com/concert/details.aspx?PId=5024326
Thanks for digging this out, Steve.

SE.
Al Eisner
2019-08-30 21:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Not a Dentist
Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
They're pretty good, those KZ performances, but so are Freire and particularly Sokolov; though not remembering if both have done each of the two first ones.
One reason Brahms's Op 1 is so good is that it was written second; Op 2 was written first, as you're probably aware.
SE.
The impression I've had is that Opus 2 (apart from one movement, the
scherzo as I recall) sounds somewhat more Lisztian rather than
Brahmsian, but that Opus 1 is pretty-much-fully-formed Brahms.

What do you think of Richter's?
--
Al Eisner
Steve Emerson
2019-08-31 18:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Not a Dentist
Good enough to impress the Schumanns, the Opus 1 of Johannes Brahms was just one of the three piano sonatas he published as a young man. Hoping, one day, to hear the Krystian Zimerman recordings of Opus 1 (and Opus 2) which he decided to withdraw.
They're pretty good, those KZ performances, but so are Freire and particularly Sokolov; though not remembering if both have done each of the two first ones.
One reason Brahms's Op 1 is so good is that it was written second; Op 2 was written first, as you're probably aware.
SE.
The impression I've had is that Opus 2 (apart from one movement, the
scherzo as I recall) sounds somewhat more Lisztian rather than
Brahmsian, but that Opus 1 is pretty-much-fully-formed Brahms.
What do you think of Richter's?
Hi Al -- Yes, I think there's plenty of Liszt in Opus 2, and possibly some in Op 1 as well. (Although I read that when taken to visit Liszt as a young man, Brahms fell asleep.)

Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did. Maybe a bit leery of this period in his work (mid-1980s)? Hesitation to invest further in works I seldom listen to? Do you have an opinion? There seem to be performances on big labels from two recitals: Mantua and Tours.

SE.
Bozo
2019-08-31 19:40:46 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did.
Fww, I can certainly reccomend this Decca cd I have :

https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Piano-Sonatas-1-2/dp/B00000E54P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=richter+brahms&qid=1567280320&s=music&sr=1-2

Have not checked to see if it's at YT or elsewhere.
Steve Emerson
2019-08-31 22:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bozo
Post by Steve Emerson
Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did.
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Piano-Sonatas-1-2/dp/B00000E54P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=richter+brahms&qid=1567280320&s=music&sr=1-2
Have not checked to see if it's at YT or elsewhere.
Noted; thank you. That's Mantua 1986. And I now see that for Op 1, besides this and the Tours (1988, Philips) there are additional recordings from Prague (Praga) and Hasselburg (RCA), both 1988. All are live.

SE.
Al Eisner
2019-09-03 21:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Bozo
Post by Steve Emerson
Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did.
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Piano-Sonatas-1-2/dp/B00000E54P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=richter+brahms&qid=1567280320&s=music&sr=1-2
Have not checked to see if it's at YT or elsewhere.
Noted; thank you. That's Mantua 1986. And I now see that for Op 1, besides this and the Tours (1988, Philips) there are additional recordings from Prague (Praga) and Hasselburg (RCA), both 1988. All are live.
SE.
I have the Praga release, and enjoyed it. The problem is that I think
I have only one other performance of these works, in the Katchen set.
So I'm leary of doing an evaluation. Leave it to Richter to avoid the
most interesting sonata (which is the one everyone else does)!
--
Al Eisner
Bozo
2019-09-03 22:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Leave it to Richter to avoid the
most interesting sonata (which is the one everyone else does)!
I've mentioned before , but will again, if you enjoy # 3, Kempff's live 1969 on BBC Legends cd ( I have the cd , may be at YT ? ) is worth hearing.Imogen Cooper reports that she and Alfred Brendel attended that recital, Brendel called Kempff's playing "miraculous ", although I recall she was not entirely clear whether Brendel was referring to the Brahms, or to the Schumann " Papillons" or Op.17 "Fantasy", also on the recital, my impression at the time I heard her BBC Radio 3 interview being Brendel's comment was to the whole recital.
Frank Berger
2019-09-03 22:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Bozo
Post by Steve Emerson
Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did.
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Piano-Sonatas-1-2/dp/B00000E54P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=richter+brahms&qid=1567280320&s=music&sr=1-2
Have not checked to see if it's at YT or elsewhere.
Noted; thank you. That's Mantua 1986. And I now see that for Op 1, besides this and the Tours (1988, Philips) there are additional recordings from Prague (Praga) and Hasselburg (RCA), both 1988. All are live.
SE.
Actually, it's 1987 according to this:

https://tinyurl.com/y5brxg28

Mantua 1986 is/was on St-Laurent.

Unless someone has messed up the dates.
Steve Emerson
2019-09-04 17:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Bozo
Post by Steve Emerson
Have to confess I've never heard Richter in either of the Brahms sonatas he did.
https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Piano-Sonatas-1-2/dp/B00000E54P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=richter+brahms&qid=1567280320&s=music&sr=1-2
Have not checked to see if it's at YT or elsewhere.
Noted; thank you. That's Mantua 1986. And I now see that for Op 1, besides this and the Tours (1988, Philips) there are additional recordings from Prague (Praga) and Hasselburg (RCA), both 1988. All are live.
SE.
https://tinyurl.com/y5brxg28
Mantua 1986 is/was on St-Laurent.
Unless someone has messed up the dates.
That's probably right. Discogs.com says the same thing. When posting, I wasn't able to find the Geffen discography and relied on this:

http://www.doremi.com/sr.html

where it's 1986 for the Decca.

SE.

HT
2019-08-22 08:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Schumann Abegg Variations is a strong start, and a more representative work than many Op. 1's. Not representative, but riveting, is Chopin's Op. 1 -- which one doesn't run into often. Bashkirov made a specialty of it.
The Abeggs are indeed a very strong start. It's also one of Haskil's best recording, IMO.

I really liked this recent live version of the Rondo by Shishkin (somehow it sounds younger - more naive? - than Bashkirov's).



Henk
Steve Emerson
2019-08-22 19:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by HT
Post by Steve Emerson
Schumann Abegg Variations is a strong start, and a more representative work than many Op. 1's. Not representative, but riveting, is Chopin's Op. 1 -- which one doesn't run into often. Bashkirov made a specialty of it.
The Abeggs are indeed a very strong start. It's also one of Haskil's best recording, IMO.
I really liked this recent live version of the Rondo by Shishkin (somehow it sounds younger - more naive? - than Bashkirov's).
http://youtu.be/WXcfIegR-F8
Henk
Thanks, Henk. Very skillful player! And with those fingers of his, a born pianist. Probably does sound younger; elfin aspects work well. After a while it feels a bit fussy, to me. I like Bashkirov's energy and mirth, his propulsion. But he certainly isn't the last word. I guess Horowitz didn't play it? Seems like his sort of work.

SE.
Johannes Roehl
2019-08-22 13:06:43 UTC
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Post by HT
http://youtu.be/dMXMCzFbYiw
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Webern: Passacaglia

Haydn's quartets op.1 are also quite good, if fairly light works.

Then there are those op.1 that are not early works at all, e.g. Bach's Partitas (Clavieruebung part 1) or Corelli's or Buxtehude's first sets of trio sonatas.
cdc
2019-08-23 01:24:13 UTC
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Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Rachmaninoff (1873-1943), Piano Concerto No.1 Op.1.
Composed in 1891, was eighteen.


c***@gmail.com
2019-08-23 13:50:01 UTC
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Post by cdc
Post by HT
Are there other Opus 1 I should hear?
Rachmaninoff (1873-1943), Piano Concerto No.1 Op.1.
Composed in 1891, was eighteen.
http://youtu.be/F7a9K4lvVn8
Nope, that's the 1917 revision, which is dramatically different from the original. Here's an excerpt from the real op. 1, which hardly resembles the work we know:


Has anyone recorded the original version other than Ghindin/Ashkenazy?

AC
Bozo
2019-08-23 16:49:19 UTC
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Nope, that's the 1917 revision, which is dramatically different from the original. Here's an excerpt from >the >real op. 1, which hardly resembles the work we know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?>v=qtdpEgMCPMs.
FYI, next Tuesday,Aug. 27 , Proms 41 replay on BBCR3:

The London Philharmonic and pianist Alexander Ghindin, conducted by Vladimir Jurowski

Rimsky-Korsakov: Mlada – suite
Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 1 in F sharp minor (original version, 1891)
Interval
Lyadov: Baba-Yaga; Kikimora; From the Apocalypse
Glazunov: Symphony No. 5 in B flat major

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007y8n
Bozo
2019-08-27 14:17:23 UTC
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Post by Bozo
he London Philharmonic and pianist Alexander Ghindin, conducted by Vladimir Jurowski
Post by Bozo
Rimsky-Korsakov: Mlada – suite
Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 1 in F sharp minor (original version, 1891)
On second hearing today of the original Rach PC # 1 , I may have to reconsider my earlier preference for the revised # 1 over the original Ghindin played. A closer case than after first hearing on his Ondine cd. Or, at least acquire the Ondine cd. Ghinidn’s playing bit more inspired at Proms than on the cd , probably was a factor.
Bozo
2019-08-23 20:06:36 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Has anyone recorded the original version other than Ghindin/Ashkenazy?
I do not have, but understand perhaps :

Karina Wisniewska with the Moscow Radio Symphony
conducted by Fedoseyev:

MUSICA CLASSIC 780010-2 (DDD)
c***@gmail.com
2019-08-23 20:10:56 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by c***@gmail.com
Has anyone recorded the original version other than Ghindin/Ashkenazy?
Karina Wisniewska with the Moscow Radio Symphony
MUSICA CLASSIC 780010-2 (DDD)
Thanks. Proms 41 already has turned up on Symphonyshare (haven't listened yet). Alas, the group seems to be in the process of imploding. A sad and strange business, and so far calls for reconciliation have been ineffective.

AC
Bozo
2019-08-25 12:38:19 UTC
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Some more info about the Rach Pc's 1 and 4 form a poster at another group :

There is also a recording of the original version of the First Concerto on Ondine ODE 977-2 Alexander Ghindin, piano with Ashkenazy conducting the Helsinki PO. The disc also offers the "original" version of the 4th Concerto.  I believe that after the composer made a significantly revised version of the First Concerto, he made another version with some slight editorial changes. Hence there are three versions of the First Concerto. As for the 4th Concerto, the version usually performed is the result of what he did for the recording. There is a curious letter the composer wrote to his friend Medtner. My recollection is that Rachmaninoff was commenting on the recently completed 4th saying something like, "it is so long, it would need to be performed in parts over two successive evenings!" That has sparked speculation that even the "original" version is not fully complete.

I should add that the composer made a revision of the 4th Concerto before the revisions he did for the version he recorded. The first revision dates from 1927 and has been recorded by pianist William Black and the Iceland SO conducted by Igor Buketoff [Chandos 8987].

The text below is from an article by Geoffrey Norris. The new Rachmaninoff Edition contains, as I recall, all versions of the 4th Concerto.


"Our plan was that the other three in our group would then have the arduous task of preparing a score and orchestral parts, though in the event this was taken on by Boosey & Hawkes, Rachmaninov's principal publisher. My next job was to find somebody to perform it, and here there was a stroke of luck. Selflessly pursuing my sybaritic brief, I was spending a weekend as a guest of [Alexandre Rachmaninoff] at the Swiss villa that his grandfather built on the shores of Lake Lucerne. Vladimir Ashkenazy, who lives on the other side of the lake, came over for drinks. In conversation it turned out that our Fourth Concerto idea fitted in perfectly with a plan of his own to conduct and record the first version of the First Concerto, with the Helsinki Philharmonic and the pianist Alexander Ghindin. The Fourth would make an ideal coupling. From then on, it was plain sailing, and both concertos were recorded for the Ondine label in Helsinki's Finlandia Hall in March this year. So, why did we decide to set this project in motion? The fact is that the Fourth Concerto has never sounded quite right. The music, particularly in the finale, has a truncated feel to it. And there is good reason why that should be so, because Rachmaninov made hefty cuts to it. The concerto had been germinating in his mind during his last years in Russia, but only after he had emigrated in 1917, and when he needed a new concerto to add to his own repertoire as a pianist, did he sit down and finish it. Immediately, he was alarmed by how long it had become, joking to his friend, the pianist and composer Nikolai Medtner (to whom the concerto is dedicated), that it would have to be performed on consecutive nights, like Wagner's Ring. There is a lobby of opinion - including, it must be admitted, Ashkenazy himself - which reckons that Rachmaninov would have been better advised to discard the finale and write a new one, because the musical material lacks the strength and substance to match a first movement that Ashkenazy regards as a "masterpiece, absolutely wonderful, nothing like he composed before, one of my favourite Rachmaninov movements".


( Bozo: So I guess I've not really heard yet either the 1st or 4th !! )
cdc
2019-08-25 13:54:43 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Nope, that's the 1917 revision, which is dramatically different from the
original.
It would be interesting to see the two scores in parallel.
Bozo
2019-08-26 00:22:07 UTC
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Post by cdc
It would be interesting to see the two scores in parallel.
No parallel scores, but here the Ghindin / Ashkenazy / Helsinki Phil. cd on Odine label of “original “ Rach PC’s 1,4. The cd original PC No.1 is all very different from the revised , first 2 movs. may be “ better “ in the revised versions, original 3rd mov. “ better “ than the revised (?). The first 2 movs. of the
original PC No.4 are not as radically different from the revised, as in the case of the PC No.1, but the original 3rd mov. of the 4th PC much different than the revised. I prefer the revised 4th in total.

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