For the older geeks......

https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Lynn McGuire

2020-04-09 01:45:15 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2020-04-09 01:56:53 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

--
<to be filled in at a later date>

Lynn McGuire

2020-04-09 01:59:58 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works every
freaking day. It just sucks.

I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in 1977
??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the verboseness.

Lynn

J. Clarke

2020-04-09 02:04:27 UTC

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:59:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works every
freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in 1977
??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the verboseness.

It's like a programming language designed by Martians--it works fine
once you learn to think like a Martian.

Kevrob

2020-04-09 02:25:34 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:59:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

A "Department of Labor" that wants volunteers? I hope they plan to
reward these civic-minded individuals by, I dunno...paying them?!!

Post by J. Clarke

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works every
freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in 1977
??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the verboseness.

As I used to remind some folks in a RL political group I was involved
in back in the last century, Wm Buckley's sesquipedalianism was fun,
but if one wanted to persuade voters, it was wise to ...

ESCHEW LATINATE VERBOSITY!

Post by J. Clarke
It's like a programming language designed by Martians--it works fine
once you learn to think like a Martian.

Greps no kapootie!

Kevin R

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 03:54:00 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:59:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html
A "Department of Labor" that wants volunteers? I hope they plan to
reward these civic-minded individuals by, I dunno...paying them?!!

Nope. They want them to volunteer.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 02:17:51 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_.Â Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works every
freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in 1977
??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that
with COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not
need programmers.

Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Titus G

2020-04-09 03:26:21 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language

Post by Lynn McGuire
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works
every freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in
1977 ??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the
verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

Really? I thought it was a far easier language to learn than most
because it was all in English and a step away from machine language and
symbols. And after a while, so many routines were reusable and with
templates or even just copying an entire program as a template, the
verbosity didn't seem to matter. And it was a specialist language,
created for sequential business processes. A major advantage, (25 years
ago on PCs), was the speed of its indexed file system.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 03:55:26 UTC

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

If you have the kind of mind that is capable of being a
programmer, yeah, it's probably easy. But your basic manager is
incapable of thinking like a programmer. There is a great gulf
fixed.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Dimensional Traveler

2020-04-09 05:40:19 UTC

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

If you have the kind of mind that is capable of being a
programmer, yeah, it's probably easy. But your basic manager is
incapable of thinking like a programmer. There is a great gulf
fixed.

Ya, managers have problems with concepts like "reality" and "logic". :P

--
<to be filled in at a later date>

J. Clarke

2020-04-09 20:06:08 UTC

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

If you have the kind of mind that is capable of being a
programmer, yeah, it's probably easy.

Only if you have a mind that is capable of being a Martian programmer.

COBOL and APL are alike in the sense that they are easier to learn if
you come into them with absolutely no programming experience. And
that if either of them is your first language you will likely struggle
with your second.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But your basic manager is
incapable of thinking like a programmer. There is a great gulf
fixed.

m***@sky.com

2020-04-09 04:53:34 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language

Post by Lynn McGuire
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works
every freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in
1977 ??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the
verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

Cobol was an improvement on its predecessors, but its first version missed out on the concept of the subroutine, and the attempt at providing english-language constructs turned out to make it verbose and less understandable, compared to constructs based on mathematical notation in other computer languages, at least when read and written by programmers who were either ex-mathematicians or had time to practice with the alternative notations. Making life easy for beginners on day one doesn't necessarily help the same people when they have become practiced users.

Finding out that making things look like (rather verbose and stilted) English doesn't help is one of my top two interesting things found out in language design. The other is a lesson from PL/I - having the computer search widely for an interpretation for what you have written and then execute that interpretation without checking back with you doesn't help either, because it is far too likely that the interpretation that it has found is not what you intended.

Titus G

2020-04-09 05:47:43 UTC

Post by m***@sky.com

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language

Post by Lynn McGuire
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works
every freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in
1977 ??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the
verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

Cobol was an improvement on its predecessors, but its first version missed out on the concept of the subroutine, and the attempt at providing english-language constructs turned out to make it verbose and less understandable, compared to constructs based on mathematical notation in other computer languages, at least when read and written by programmers who were either ex-mathematicians or had time to practice with the alternative notations. Making life easy for beginners on day one doesn't necessarily help the same people when they have become practiced users.
Finding out that making things look like (rather verbose and stilted) English doesn't help is one of my top two interesting things found out in language design. The other is a lesson from PL/I - having the computer search widely for an interpretation for what you have written and then execute that interpretation without checking back with you doesn't help either, because it is far too likely that the interpretation that it has found is not what you intended.

I hated COBOL when I first learnt it because I had to as part of my
employment with a bureau and because it lacked the challenge of machine
or assembler languages but valued it many years later when I wrote
several accounting systems because of its self-documentation as well as
factors mentioned previously. Most of what I was involved with was
sequential batch processing, recording transactions and updating master
records all of which the COBOL of the time was ideally suited for so my
comments on these matters is somewhat limited by my experience.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 12:11:57 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Post by Lynn McGuire
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language

Post by Lynn McGuire
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works
every freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in
1977 ??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the
verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that with
COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not need
programmers.
Ha. Ha. And again, Ha!

Cobol was an improvement on its predecessors, but its first version
missed out on the concept of the subroutine, and the attempt at
providing english-language constructs turned out to make it verbose and
less understandable, compared to constructs based on mathematical
notation in other computer languages, at least when read and written by
programmers who were either ex-mathematicians or had time to practice
with the alternative notations. Making life easy for beginners on day
one doesn't necessarily help the same people when they have become
practiced users.
Finding out that making things look like (rather verbose and stilted)
English doesn't help is one of my top two interesting things found out
in language design. The other is a lesson from PL/I - having the
computer search widely for an interpretation for what you have written
and then execute that interpretation without checking back with you
doesn't help either, because it is far too likely that the
interpretation that it has found is not what you intended.

Or, as the old saw went,

"I really hate this damn machine;
I wish that they would sell it.
It never does just what I mean,
But only what I tell it."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Scott Lurndal

2020-04-09 14:48:56 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_.Â Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

I said nothing about the ability to get things done. Cobol works every
freaking day. It just sucks.
I had one of my fellow programmers try to teach me Cobol back in 1977
??? on our Prime 450. I just could not get my head around the verboseness.

Remember, the designers thought ... or at least *said* ... that
with COBOL the managers could write their own programs and not
need programmers.

Actually, it was never said that managers could write their
own programs using COBOL. What was said was that business analysts could write
their own programs without involving the systems programming staff.

That part was true, particularly with the various 4GLs that actually
generated the COBOL code for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LINC_4GL

J. Clarke

2020-04-09 02:01:46 UTC

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 02:19:47 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Hal says he used to do that. "Did it work?" "Yeah. [pause] It
did things you're not supposed to do in COBOL, but it worked."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Scott Lurndal

2020-04-09 14:51:06 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Hal says he used to do that. "Did it work?" "Yeah. [pause] It
did things you're not supposed to do in COBOL, but it worked."

Our (Burroughs) COBOL68 compiler allowed embedded assembler, so it could do
pretty much everything. Even the file system defragmenter utility (called SQUASH)
was written in COBOL68.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 15:37:43 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Hal says he used to do that. "Did it work?" "Yeah. [pause] It
did things you're not supposed to do in COBOL, but it worked."

Our (Burroughs) COBOL68 compiler allowed embedded assembler, so it could do
pretty much everything. Even the file system defragmenter utility (called SQUASH)
was written in COBOL68.

Hal is old enough that he learned to write in assembler (as well
as FORTRAN), while COBOL was still a gleam in its daddy's eye.

When we were first dating (~50 years ago), Hal decided he would
teach me FORTRAN. This got nowhere fast; FORTRAN was not able to
do anything I wanted to do. Later on, when I was working for UC
Berkeley, I discovered the UNIX text-processing software--ex, vi,
n/troff, eqn, tbl--and seized on them with (as James Burke once
put it) all the mad abandon of an alcoholic in a brewery.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Scott Lurndal

2020-04-09 17:32:35 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Hal says he used to do that. "Did it work?" "Yeah. [pause] It
did things you're not supposed to do in COBOL, but it worked."

Our (Burroughs) COBOL68 compiler allowed embedded assembler, so it could do
pretty much everything. Even the file system defragmenter utility (called SQUASH)
was written in COBOL68.

Hal is old enough that he learned to write in assembler (as well
as FORTRAN), while COBOL was still a gleam in its daddy's eye.

He was programming before 1959?

And surely it was [Grand]Mommy's (Adm Grace Hopper) eye :=)

J. Clarke

2020-04-09 20:10:05 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:56:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Writing Fortran in COBOL is not for the faint of heart. It's going to
fight you at every turn, or at least it used to.

Hal says he used to do that. "Did it work?" "Yeah. [pause] It
did things you're not supposed to do in COBOL, but it worked."

Our (Burroughs) COBOL68 compiler allowed embedded assembler, so it could do
pretty much everything. Even the file system defragmenter utility (called SQUASH)
was written in COBOL68.

Hal is old enough that he learned to write in assembler (as well
as FORTRAN), while COBOL was still a gleam in its daddy's eye.

Fortran and COBOL are two years apart.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
When we were first dating (~50 years ago), Hal decided he would
teach me FORTRAN. This got nowhere fast; FORTRAN was not able to
do anything I wanted to do. Later on, when I was working for UC
Berkeley, I discovered the UNIX text-processing software--ex, vi,
n/troff, eqn, tbl--and seized on them with (as James Burke once
put it) all the mad abandon of an alcoholic in a brewery.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 02:16:33 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Inertia. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and besides we've
already invested $N million worth of programmer-hours in it."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

p***@hotmail.com

2020-04-09 02:39:05 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Didn't Admiral Grace Hopper have something to do with COBOL?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

h***@gmail.com

2020-04-09 03:31:55 UTC

Post by p***@hotmail.com

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Didn't Admiral Grace Hopper have something to do with COBOL?

It was building on FLOW-MATIC which she and her team had designed

She was a technical consultant for the committee that designed COBOL and a lot of the committee was people who'd previously worked for her.

She developed validation software for COBOL and COBOL compilers for the navy

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 03:56:25 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

COBOL sucks.Â A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL _works_. Why do you think it was taught and used for so long?

Didn't Admiral Grace Hopper have something to do with COBOL?

I have no idea. I suppose it's not impossible; why don't you
research and let us know? I have to do some dishes and go to
bed.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 02:15:20 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."

And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Post by o***@gmail.com
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.

But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Titus G

2020-04-09 03:26:46 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."
And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Post by o***@gmail.com
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.
But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

400,000 NZers have returned from overseas since the alarm went off.
Popn of ~5million.
Anyone returning now is isolated for 14 days in a single room in a
specified hotel set aside for quarantine purposes.
We have been sort of confined to home and neighbourhood for two weeks
now, sources of Covid 19 have been traced and there appears to be little
community transmission.
There are more often than not, queues to enter supermarkets but the
shelves are full.
With a border easier to police than most and prudent action by our
government, we are probably going to get off lightly. Luckily, our
Glorious and Radiant Leader thinks New Zealand is a family and she's a
mum who loves her family, even the coloured, the old and the poor ones.

Dorothy J Heydt

2020-04-09 03:59:48 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."
And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Post by Lynn McGuire
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.
But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

What? All 400K of them in a single room??????

When did New Zealand develop TARDIS technology, and where can I
get some?

Post by o***@gmail.com
We have been sort of confined to home and neighbourhood for two weeks
now, sources of Covid 19 have been traced and there appears to be little
community transmission.
There are more often than not, queues to enter supermarkets but the
shelves are full.
With a border easier to police than most and prudent action by our
government, we are probably going to get off lightly. Luckily, our
Glorious and Radiant Leader thinks New Zealand is a family and she's a
mum who loves her family, even the coloured, the old and the poor ones.

Brava.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Titus G

2020-04-09 05:13:43 UTC

snip

(He works in Quebec

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El
Cerrito because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come
back from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

What? All 400K of them in a single room??????

It was a large room to begin with and they removed the paintings off the
walls and most of the furniture. The ventilator to keep them alive was
on the outside of the room. See, you didn't think it through, did you?

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
When did New Zealand develop TARDIS technology, and where can I get
some?

Anyone returning since the other day after most of those 400k had
already squashed in, have been and will be given, their own room.
(What? She thinks we are stupid enough to share our technological
secrets with the evil empire?)

J. Clarke

2020-04-09 20:18:14 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."
And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Earth to the idiot governor of New Jersey, check glassdoor and see
what that labor you want for free is actually worth in the market.

Post by o***@gmail.com
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.
But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

Robert Carnegie

2020-04-10 11:01:53 UTC

Post by J. Clarke

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."
And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Earth to the idiot governor of New Jersey, check glassdoor and see
what that labor you want for free is actually worth in the market.

If not covered, this appears to be the response form.
<https://forms.business.nj.gov/tech/>

This allows for part time or full time contribution,
and says that "all paid service offerings will be
subject to applicable State procurement laws,
regulations, and processes.". So they're paying where
appropriate (there isn't a figure given), but are also
accepting donations.

I expect that they will be cautious about who does
work on a system that handles benefit money and
personal information.

Post by J. Clarke

Post by o***@gmail.com
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.
But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

Post by o***@gmail.com
https://www.newser.com/story/289309/older-programmers-are-suddenly-in-high-demand.html

Yeah. Sean Fagan told me about it several days ago, and the
Register reported it the day after. Hal said, "If I can do it
remotely, and they pay me [some huge amount], I'd consider it."
And a day or so after *that*, it was reported that the governor
of NJ wants *volunteers.* He wants six people to dust off their
COBOL skills and revamp his antiquated system for free.

Earth to the idiot governor of New Jersey, check glassdoor and see
what that labor you want for free is actually worth in the market.

Post by o***@gmail.com
COBOL sucks. A real programmer can write Fortran in any language
though, I do so in C++ every day.

COBOL may suck, but Hal made a nice living out of it for thirty
years. Nowadays he does most of his programming in some flavor
of C[*], plus MySQL, under Raspbian.
But our daughter's boss's son is a hotshot young programmer who
eats C[*] for lunch and is helping Hal tweak his registration software.
Maybe when we're dead he'll take it over. (He works in Quebec
City, Canada, but is currently living with his mother in El Cerrito
because the Canadian border patrol wouldn't let him come back
from a visit to the US. Go figure.)

o***@gmail.com

2020-04-09 20:36:28 UTC