Spoiler 20th. April ‘20

That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

--
Toodle Pip

Peter Withey

2020-04-21 08:54:59 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

We were told that Blake had a broken back after the explosion. He's
the subject of a police, and presumably a Health & Safety
investigation yet he was able to "pick up his bed" and walk out of the
hospital without anyone saying "boo".

Mm, as you say, it not only smells, it wreaks!

--
Pete

Sam Plusnet

2020-04-21 20:39:17 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Well, the hospital wouldn't have him handcuffed to his bed, so he could
leave if he chose.
If he did so by the book he'd have to sign a few documents to say he was
doing so against medical advice, but no-one could force him to stay.

Post by Peter Withey
Mm, as you say, it not only smells, it wreaks!

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Withey

2020-04-22 11:03:44 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.

Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

--
Pete

Mike

2020-04-22 11:07:13 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.
With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

As I mentioned earlier, the team from Stoke Mandeville are very interested
in the method of treatment! Now Guys and Gals - how’s about that then?

--
Toodle Pip

Penny

2020-04-22 14:27:32 UTC

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:07:13 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...

Post by Mike
As I mentioned earlier, the team from Stoke Mandeville are very interested
in the method of treatment!

Wonderful as they are, the team at Stoke Mandeville managed to misdiagnose
brother #1 when he fell out of a tree (or possibly off a building, he was
always climbing things*). They had him in a full body cast for some time in
one of those wards with French windows onto a sunny courtyard and there
were many worried conversations (I was very young at the time) then
suddenly he was home again and fine.

* We always visited castles when on family holidays, in the days when the
Ministry of Works erected signs suggesting people shouldn't climb on the
walls but did not staff properties to stop people doing so. About 10
minutes after arrival Tony would be halfway up the wall, heading for the
battlements. His younger daughter seems to have inherited this yen but
usually restricts herself to cliffs and boulders with a team of like-minded
maniacs.

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2020-04-22 15:50:42 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.
With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

"We do not know how bad he was with his back though. I wonder if Roy
will really be put off the scent." - from my friend

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This is a one line proof... if we start sufficiently far to the left."
[Cambridge University Math Dept.]

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-22 16:25:08 UTC

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.
With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

"We do not know how bad he was with his back though.

Agreed. All we were told was that he had a broken back and, then, that
the prognosis was pretty good and that he should, eventually, make a
full recovery. This makes it pretty safe to assume that he hadn't
severed his spinal cord, so he may have been fit to walk out of the
hospital under his own steam or he may have needed Philip to commandeer
a wheelchair to get him to the exit.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I wonder if Roy
will really be put off the scent." - from my friend

I'm wondering if Roy will make some comment to Harrison, in all
innocence, which will set alarm bells ringing as it will contradict what
Philip had told Harrison.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. (A.A. Milne)

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-22 16:35:40 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

As he wasn't under arrest and we haven't heard anything to suggest he's
under 18, they wouldn't have any right to detain him against his wishes.
I can't see that they would have any obligation to notify either the
police or the HSE of his wherabouts but, for all we know, they may have
done so.

Post by Peter Withey
With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

It all depends on how badly broken it was. If it was just one or two
broken vertebrae and quite stable then yes, of course; if fact, he'd
have been home long ago. Without knowing how much damage he'd done, it's
impossible to know how far off being ready to go home he was or how
risky it will be for him at home. Especially as he will, presumably, be
either back on the streets or under Gavin's tender supervision.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every
part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder. (John Glenn)

John Ashby

2020-04-22 17:15:01 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

HSE have extensive powers, beyond those of the Borsetshire constabulary.
It's surprising that they aren't leading the investigation, rather than
leaving it to the local Plod, given that there's a very clear breach of
safe working practices. And failure to cooperate with HSE is also very
serious.

john

Mike

2020-04-22 17:47:00 UTC

Post by John Ashby

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

Indeed they have, and it is! HSE are ‘God’ and when something even has a
sniff of unsafe working about it, a ton of bricks is a featherweight by
comparison. Very shabby scriptwriting indeed.

--
Toodle Pip

Flop

2020-04-22 20:32:42 UTC

Post by Mike
Indeed they have, and it is! HSE are ‘God’ and when something even has a
sniff of unsafe working about it, a ton of bricks is a featherweight by
comparison. Very shabby scriptwriting indeed.

From my experience of HSE they are incredibly efficient. They even
produced a manual of safe practices which have been banned on the
grounds of 'elf and safety' [eg conkers].

I would have anticipated that there first action would be to interview
Philip. And the first question they would ask is "where is the Risk
Assessment for this procedure?".

'Unsafe working' can result from a failure to make an assessment or from
making an assessment, following it but then encountering unanticipated
bad luck.

So, if Philip had thought about possible failures, tried to avoid them
but had not expected someone to try and toast bread in an unfamiliar
setting, he would likely not encountered the 'ton of bricks'.

I do wonder when SWs make things up and when they run them past an expert.

--
Flop

Truly the Good Lord gave us computers that we might learn patience

Sam Plusnet

2020-04-22 21:22:17 UTC

Post by Flop
I do wonder when SWs make things up and when they run them past an expert.

I think they did try it once, but it would have ruined their storyline,
so they've never repeated the exercise.

--
Sam Plusnet

Nick Odell

2020-04-23 16:54:27 UTC

Post by Flop
I do wonder when SWs make things up and when they run them past an expert.

I think they did try it once, but it would have ruined their storyline,
so they've never repeated the exercise.

I have only known personally one specialist adviser to the programme
and that was many years ago. As teacher of the non-stipendiary
ministers course at what was then Salisbury Theological College I
think you can guess what he advised on and just how long ago that was.
But he felt they did a pretty good interpretation of his input.

Nick

BrritSki

2020-04-23 07:11:54 UTC

Post by Flop
I do wonder when SWs make things up and when they run them past an expert.

Easy: all the time and never, respectively.

Sam Plusnet

2020-04-22 21:26:04 UTC

Post by Mike

Post by John Ashby
HSE have extensive powers, beyond those of the Borsetshire constabulary.
It's surprising that they aren't leading the investigation, rather than
leaving it to the local Plod, given that there's a very clear breach of
safe working practices. And failure to cooperate with HSE is also very
serious.
john

Indeed they have, and it is! HSE are ‘God’ and when something even has a
sniff of unsafe working about it, a ton of bricks is a featherweight by
comparison. Very shabby scriptwriting indeed.

Possibly, but can recall events where HSE never got involved (beyond,
presumably, receiving reports).
The occasions I'm thinking of didn't result in major injury - but that
was only by sheer luck.

--
Sam Plusnet

krw

2020-04-23 09:03:02 UTC

TA knows about HSE - didn't they land on Bodge Farm after Johnny took a
turn for the worse and Tony cuddled a bull?

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-23 09:40:56 UTC

Post by krw

TA knows about HSE - didn't they land on Bodge Farm after Johnny took a
turn for the worse and Tony cuddled a bull?

They have been mentioned in the context of the recent explosion and were
the authors of the interim report. It's the subsequent interviews which
have been done by the local plods - I don't know how realistic that is
or whether they would have kept everything in house.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)

BrritSki

2020-04-23 11:02:02 UTC

Post by krw

TA knows about HSE - didn't they land on Bodge Farm after Johnny took a
turn for the worse and Tony cuddled a bull?

He will now always be known, by me at least, as cuddleabull Tony. Ta.

Sam Plusnet

2020-04-22 21:33:01 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

Agreed. The NHS isn't HMP and would have no interest in holding someone
against their will (exceptions for those 'sectioned' and prisoners in
custody).

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Withey

2020-04-23 10:20:36 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

Agreed. The NHS isn't HMP and would have no interest in holding someone
against their will (exceptions for those 'sectioned' and prisoners in
custody).

As both you and Serena speak with such certainty I assume you both
have inside knowledge and accept it.

As an outsider the way I thought it would have worked would be,

When the explosion occurred the emergency services were called
and Ambulance, Fire an Police attended. When Grey Gables was made safe
and Blake and Lynda moved to hospital the police would follow on and
as neither Blake nor Lynda would be in position to either give a
preliminary let alone a full statement the Police would request/
instruct? the hospital to inform them when their condition/
circumstances changes as the incident would be the subject of a HSE
and Police investigation.

And Blake, the one with most knowledge of the moments leading up to
the explosion suddenly discharging himself against medical advise
would necessitate the hospital informing the Police.

Where am I going wrong?

--
Pete

J. P. Gilliver (John)

2020-04-24 03:14:08 UTC

[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Agreed. The NHS isn't HMP and would have no interest in holding someone
against their will (exceptions for those 'sectioned' and prisoners in
custody).

As both you and Serena speak with such certainty I assume you both
have inside knowledge and accept it.

[]
Are you suggesting that S&S have been inside?

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never make the same mistake twice...there are so many new ones to make!

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-24 09:05:56 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.

Agreed. The NHS isn't HMP and would have no interest in holding someone
against their will (exceptions for those 'sectioned' and prisoners in
custody).

As both you and Serena speak with such certainty I assume you both
have inside knowledge and accept it.

I wouldn't claim any inside knowledge, just a general understanding of
the law. I've also seen various reports, over the years, making it
clear that medics tend to strongly resist being co-opted into enforcing
the law.

Post by Peter Withey
As an outsider the way I thought it would have worked would be,
When the explosion occurred the emergency services were called
and Ambulance, Fire an Police attended. When Grey Gables was made safe
and Blake and Lynda moved to hospital the police would follow on and
as neither Blake nor Lynda would be in position to either give a
preliminary let alone a full statement the Police would request/
instruct? the hospital to inform them when their condition/
circumstances changes as the incident would be the subject of a HSE
and Police investigation.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.

We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Post by Peter Withey
And Blake, the one with most knowledge of the moments leading up to
the explosion suddenly discharging himself against medical advise
would necessitate the hospital informing the Police.
Where am I going wrong?

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.

[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
If at first you don’t succeed try, try, Try a Gin

Peter Withey

2020-04-24 10:19:23 UTC

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:05:56 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
<***@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:

<a lot snipped>

I wrote.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.
We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.
[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

Thanks Serena for explaining so clearly how things would have worked
and where my scenario was incorrect.

--
Pete

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-24 12:14:25 UTC

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:05:56 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
<a lot snipped>
I wrote.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.
We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.
[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

Thanks Serena for explaining so clearly how things would have worked
and where my scenario was incorrect.

Glad that clarified things.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
Hard work pays off in the future! Laziness pays off NOW!

Peter Withey

2020-04-26 09:52:05 UTC

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:14:25 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:05:56 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
<a lot snipped>
I wrote.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.
We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.
[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

Thanks Serena for explaining so clearly how things would have worked
and where my scenario was incorrect.

Glad that clarified things.

One other thing you might be able to help me with. Listening to the
omnibus edition and Roy's conversation with the occupant in the bed
next to the one Blake was in. It was clear that a doctor was on hand
and Philip wasn't able to spirit him away without anybody being aware
it.

Would Blake have to sign a form or similar to the effect that he was
discharging himself voluntarily, against medical advise, and absolving
the hospital from any responsibility?

--
Pete

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-26 10:39:49 UTC

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:14:25 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:05:56 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
<a lot snipped>
I wrote.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.
We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.
[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

Thanks Serena for explaining so clearly how things would have worked
and where my scenario was incorrect.

Glad that clarified things.

One other thing you might be able to help me with. Listening to the
omnibus edition and Roy's conversation with the occupant in the bed
next to the one Blake was in. It was clear that a doctor was on hand
and Philip wasn't able to spirit him away without anybody being aware
it.
Would Blake have to sign a form or similar to the effect that he was
discharging himself voluntarily, against medical advise, and absolving
the hospital from any responsibility?

Yes, I think so although, once again, this isn't something I have
first-hand experience of. My understanding is that the potential
outcomes would have been strongly spelt out to him and he would have had
to sign something confirming that he had been told this and accepted the
risks.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
For all that has been, thanks. For all that shall be, yes. (Dag
Hammarskjold)

Flop

2020-04-26 11:43:49 UTC

Post by Serena Blanchflower
Yes, I think so although, once again, this isn't something I have
first-hand experience of. My understanding is that the potential
outcomes would have been strongly spelt out to him and he would have had
to sign something confirming that he had been told this and accepted the
risks.

I doubt if a hospital would anticipate a patient discharging himself -
especially when they are effectively immobilised.

They would only advise against leaving if they had been forewarned -
which presumably they had not.

I think (but this is debatable) that the police cannot arrest him whilst
he is in hospital as they are unable to to question him without a lawyer
and with no recording facility. An arrest has a limited (24/48 hour)
lifetime.

--
Flop

Truly the Good Lord gave us computers that we might learn patience

Chris McMillan

2020-04-26 17:13:18 UTC

Post by Flop

I doubt if a hospital would anticipate a patient discharging himself -
especially when they are effectively immobilised.
They would only advise against leaving if they had been forewarned -
which presumably they had not.
I think (but this is debatable) that the police cannot arrest him whilst
he is in hospital as they are unable to to question him without a lawyer
and with no recording facility. An arrest has a limited (24/48 hour)
lifetime.

I’ve seen police guarding in A and E abd I think once or twice on single
rooms on my many visitings to hospitals

Sincerely Chris

Peter Withey

2020-04-27 10:35:48 UTC

Post by Flop

I doubt if a hospital would anticipate a patient discharging himself -
especially when they are effectively immobilised.

Agreed.

Post by Flop
They would only advise against leaving if they had been forewarned -
which presumably they had not.

Not forewarned, but If we are to believe the patient in the next bed
to Blake there was a Doctor present when Blake, with his "Uncle"
Philip's assistance, discharged himself.

Until Serena said it earlier in the thread it hadn't occurred to me
that there different degrees of broken back, should have, but it
didn't. If this website is correct in the "best case" he could have
been out of hospital within a couple of days.

https://www.healthline.com/health/broken-back

We know that Lynda suffered multiple injuries. Broken bones, bad
burns. Have we heard whether Blake suffered any other injuries in
addition to his broken back?

Post by Flop
I think (but this is debatable) that the police cannot arrest him whilst
he is in hospital as they are unable to to question him without a lawyer
and with no recording facility. An arrest has a limited (24/48 hour)
lifetime.

We have heard that he has been interviewed but I don't think we know
whether he had a lawyer present or not.

What I still can't get my head around is that Blake is in hospital
with, at the least a broken back suffered in an explosion. Serious
enough that he is still there, until he "voluntarily" discharges
himself, after four? weeks.

He's been interviewed while in there by the police and/ or HSE so that
the hospital know he is part of the investigation in the accident but
unless I've misunderstood what I've being told earlier in this thread,
even under these circumstances, there would be no obligation on the
part of the hospital to inform the police/ HSE that Blake, with the
assistance of "Uncle" Philip had discharged himself against medical
advice and the first they would know about it was when the phoned up
or arrived at the hospital to conduct a further interview.

--
Pete

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-27 12:03:47 UTC

Post by Flop

I doubt if a hospital would anticipate a patient discharging himself -
especially when they are effectively immobilised.

Agreed.

Post by Flop
They would only advise against leaving if they had been forewarned -
which presumably they had not.

Not forewarned, but If we are to believe the patient in the next bed
to Blake there was a Doctor present when Blake, with his "Uncle"
Philip's assistance, discharged himself.

Yes, it was made pretty clear that he discharged himself, rather than
just having walked out. He's also still going for outpatient treatment.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
Until Serena said it earlier in the thread it hadn't occurred to me
that there different degrees of broken back, should have, but it
didn't. If this website is correct in the "best case" he could have
been out of hospital within a couple of days.
https://www.healthline.com/health/broken-back

That's certainly what happened to the chap I know of who broke his neck
(one fractured and one crushed vertebrae) recently.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
We know that Lynda suffered multiple injuries. Broken bones, bad
burns. Have we heard whether Blake suffered any other injuries in
addition to his broken back?

No, I don't think so. It was implied that he had head injuries and I
think we were told that his recovery would take some considerable number
of months. I don't remember us being given any more detail than that
though.

We have heard that he has been interviewed but I don't think we know
whether he had a lawyer present or not.

I think we were told that, on the strong advice of "Uncle Philip" he was
claiming to have no recollection of the events of that morning. I don't
know whether, since then, he's recovered his memory at all.

Post by Serena Blanchflower
What I still can't get my head around is that Blake is in hospital
with, at the least a broken back suffered in an explosion. Serious
enough that he is still there, until he "voluntarily" discharges
himself, after four? weeks.
He's been interviewed while in there by the police and/ or HSE so that
the hospital know he is part of the investigation in the accident but
unless I've misunderstood what I've being told earlier in this thread,
even under these circumstances, there would be no obligation on the
part of the hospital to inform the police/ HSE that Blake, with the
assistance of "Uncle" Philip had discharged himself against medical
advice and the first they would know about it was when the phoned up
or arrived at the hospital to conduct a further interview.

The fact that he's in hospital is a bit of a red herring. His legal
situation is just the same as if he'd been incredibly lucky and been
relatively unscathed in the explosion or, come to that, to Philip and
Gavin's legal situation. Any or all of the three of them may (or may
not, I don't think we've heard) have been advised to tell the police if
they decide to leave home (or hospital). Even if they have been so
advised, no one else is legally responsible for ensuring they comply
with this requirement.

Do you think the hospital were, or should have been, under any
obligation to let the police know that Lynda was being discharged? As
far as they are concerned, she's in the same situation as Blake.
Injured in the explosion and subsequently interviewed. The hospital
won't have either the information the police / HSE have on the causes of
the explosion nor the information we have.

I've read a number of stories, in the press, over the years where the
NHS is very resistant to being made responsible for legal matters like
this (most often stuff relating to immigration status). Not only is it
an extra burden on an already over-stretched health service but they see
it as a potential conflict of interest and likely to introduce stresses
in the patient / doctor relationship.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
My doctor told me to keep in shape. Well, this is my shape and I'm
keeping it (anon)

Chris McMillan

2020-04-26 17:13:17 UTC

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:14:25 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Peter Withey
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:05:56 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
<a lot snipped>
I wrote.

I think that's pretty much what we were told did happen, although I'm
not sure, under those circumstances, whether the police would expect the
hospital to notify them, once Blake and/or Lynda had recovered enough to
be interviewed, or whether the police would just keep asking.
We know (from Philip and Gavin stressing about it) that Blake was
extensively interviewed, in hospital, by the police and, I think, the
HSE, as soon as he was sufficiently compos mentis for this to be possible.

Blake hasn't been arrested and is a free man who is perfectly entitled
to discharge himself and go home (wherever that may be). If the police
want to be kept up to date about his whereabouts, it was up to them to
tell him this and up to Blake to comply[1]. If they want him to be in
custody so that he couldn't do a vanishing act, they should have
arrested him. If this had happened, he would have had a policeman
guarding him in hospital. The hospital wouldn't have taken on the role
of custody officer.
[1] Exactly as they would if they want to keep tabs on Philip and Gavin.

Thanks Serena for explaining so clearly how things would have worked
and where my scenario was incorrect.

Glad that clarified things.

One other thing you might be able to help me with. Listening to the
omnibus edition and Roy's conversation with the occupant in the bed
next to the one Blake was in. It was clear that a doctor was on hand
and Philip wasn't able to spirit him away without anybody being aware
it.
Would Blake have to sign a form or similar to the effect that he was
discharging himself voluntarily, against medical advise, and absolving
the hospital from any responsibility?

No, Philip would have done it. They’re discharged into the care of the
person collecting them. I had to do this with step-mum when she refused to
move away from the front door of the care home she was having planned
respite in two years ago but had a mini stroke the day before she was due
to go in. It looked as if the stroke was in the eye, but from that day on
she’s lived in a serious world of hallucinations. She didn’t believe her
fostered cat was being cared for (I was going over every day to feed moggie
as well as visit her). I don’t think I’ve ever been so
embarrassed in my life!

Sincerely Chris

Chris McMillan

2020-04-23 10:30:07 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

I'm sure it's as you say under normal circumstances Sam, but here I'm
talking about Blake and the circumstances surrounding his accident.
Given those, surely the hospital would have been informed that the
accident and Blake were the subject of a police and presumably a Heath
and Safety investigation also and be under an obligation to inform the
police before, if they couldn't prevent it, allowing him to leave.
With a broken back, even after six? weeks he could hardly sneak out
with only Philip to help him, or could he?

No. See my reply, Pete.

Sincerely Chris

Chris McMillan

2020-04-23 10:29:58 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Post by Peter Withey
Mm, as you say, it not only smells, it wreaks!

But if he leaves against medical advice he won’t be able to access the
rehab he obviously needs and has been having. Also, how come Philip simply
wheeled him away?? He would still be in traction till the bones mend. His
family home won’t have the needed equipment, oh, and Wales is not England
either. They didn’t ask Frank Gardener for advice clearly.

Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

Sorry, SWs but just like pregnancies some things have to be real time

Sincerely Chris

Sincerely Chris

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-24 09:32:37 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Post by Peter Withey
Mm, as you say, it not only smells, it wreaks!

Don't forget that the term "broken back" doesn't necessarily mean that
the spinal cord has been severed (as Frank Gardner's was). The fact
that Philip told us that Blake was expected to make a full recovery
makes it clear that his hasn't been.

I think I've mentioned before that someone I know of[1] broke his neck
in a cycling accident, a few weeks ago and he was discharged from
hospital after only a few days, although he has to go back at regular
intervals for scans to make sure everything's OK.

Some years ago, a then colleague broke her back in a riding accident and
she was discharged after about two or three weeks in hospital, once she
had been fitted for a body brace to immobilise her spine.

It seems safe to assume that Blakes injuries are more extensive than
either of these, while being considerably less serious than Frank
Gardner's. There have been references to him having ongoing physio, so
presumably he isn't completely immobile and we have also been told that
Gavin is having to take him back for this to continue as an out-patient.

I don't think we have enough info to be sure just how premature his
discharge was or how risky. It wouldn't surprise me though if things go
horribly wrong for him and this proves to be another crime to be laid at
Philip's feet.

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.

As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.

[1] The son of a FOAF

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're told. Obedience
is doing what you're told regardless of what is right (H.L. Mencken)

Chris McMillan

2020-04-26 16:58:12 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Post by Peter Withey
Mm, as you say, it not only smells, it wreaks!

Don't forget that the term "broken back" doesn't necessarily mean that
the spinal cord has been severed (as Frank Gardner's was). The fact
that Philip told us that Blake was expected to make a full recovery
makes it clear that his hasn't been.
I think I've mentioned before that someone I know of[1] broke his neck
in a cycling accident, a few weeks ago and he was discharged from
hospital after only a few days, although he has to go back at regular
intervals for scans to make sure everything's OK.
Some years ago, a then colleague broke her back in a riding accident and
she was discharged after about two or three weeks in hospital, once she
had been fitted for a body brace to immobilise her spine.
It seems safe to assume that Blakes injuries are more extensive than
either of these, while being considerably less serious than Frank
Gardner's. There have been references to him having ongoing physio, so
presumably he isn't completely immobile and we have also been told that
Gavin is having to take him back for this to continue as an out-patient.
I don't think we have enough info to be sure just how premature his
discharge was or how risky. It wouldn't surprise me though if things go
horribly wrong for him and this proves to be another crime to be laid at
Philip's feet.

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.
As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.
[1] The son of a FOAF

And not many councils have the wherewithal to get a visit, a man to do the
work, another to bring the bed, the hoist or and the rest of it. Lynda was
under sedation plus multiple injuries and burns: I still can’t believe she
was able to to cone home without the need of a hospital bed, protection for
the burn sites, a chair for a shower, handrails for steps. Never mind with
energy to go to an Easter fete.

BTW, talking via Zoom to a couple this morning who had most of the Covid
symptoms but avoided hospital (and they’re sure they have had it), the
husband still has fatigue problems. They also think their teenaged son had
it but was very mild.

Sincerely Chris

Vicky Ayech

2020-04-26 17:46:19 UTC

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:58:12 GMT, Chris McMillan

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.
As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.
[1] The son of a FOAF

Not sure about a shower anyway because she has lots of burn damage to
skin. Would there have to be a nurse coming in to wash her safely?
Bed bath?

Serena Blanchflower

2020-04-27 09:14:43 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:58:12 GMT, Chris McMillan

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.
As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.
[1] The son of a FOAF

Not sure about a shower anyway because she has lots of burn damage to
skin. Would there have to be a nurse coming in to wash her safely?
Bed bath?

Worse, they seem to think that she'd be able to get in and out of a
bath, unaided. The first day she was home, one of the first things
Robert did for her, IIRC, was to run her a bath; it was clear that she
neither needed nor wanted his help, as she threw a wobbly when he came
into the bathroom, while she was soaking, until he reminder her that
he'd already seen her, and all her burns, while she was in hospital.

How she got herself in and out of it remains a mystery.

--
Happy hibernating and stay well,
best wishes, Serena
You can't stay in your corner of the Forest waiting for others to come
to you. You have to go to them sometimes. (A.A. Milne)

Mike

2020-04-27 09:45:51 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:58:12 GMT, Chris McMillan

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.
As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.
[1] The son of a FOAF

Not sure about a shower anyway because she has lots of burn damage to
skin. Would there have to be a nurse coming in to wash her safely?
Bed bath?

Worse, they seem to think that she'd be able to get in and out of a
bath, unaided. The first day she was home, one of the first things
Robert did for her, IIRC, was to run her a bath; it was clear that she
neither needed nor wanted his help, as she threw a wobbly when he came
into the bathroom, while she was soaking, until he reminder her that
he'd already seen her, and all her burns, while she was in hospital.
How she got herself in and out of it remains a mystery.

‘...and with one giant leap, she was free...’

--
Toodle Pip

Vicky Ayech

2020-04-27 09:50:03 UTC

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:58:12 GMT, Chris McMillan
Not sure about a shower anyway because she has lots of burn damage to
skin. Would there have to be a nurse coming in to wash her safely?
Bed bath?

Worse, they seem to think that she'd be able to get in and out of a
bath, unaided. The first day she was home, one of the first things
Robert did for her, IIRC, was to run her a bath; it was clear that she
neither needed nor wanted his help, as she threw a wobbly when he came
into the bathroom, while she was soaking, until he reminder her that
he'd already seen her, and all her burns, while she was in hospital.
How she got herself in and out of it remains a mystery.

They seem to have nobody onstaff with experience and information about
injured or disabled people. This is not to do with the current
dislocation as this story was done before the lockdown. And for those
who think the ROb/helen story was done well, it was also full or bad
errors that would not have helped those in that situation.

krw

2020-04-27 15:39:37 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
And for those
who think the ROb/helen story was done well, it was also full or bad
errors that would not have helped those in that situation.

Particularly taking a knife to it.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Penny

2020-04-27 11:58:06 UTC

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower
Worse, they seem to think that she'd be able to get in and out of a
bath, unaided. The first day she was home, one of the first things
Robert did for her, IIRC, was to run her a bath; it was clear that she
neither needed nor wanted his help, as she threw a wobbly when he came
into the bathroom, while she was soaking, until he reminder her that
he'd already seen her, and all her burns, while she was in hospital.
How she got herself in and out of it remains a mystery.

Sheer bloody-mindedness!

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

BrritSki

2020-04-27 12:29:59 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Sheer bloody-mindedness!

Hover farts !

Nick Odell

2020-04-27 18:35:06 UTC

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:29:59 +0100, BrritSki

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Sheer bloody-mindedness!

Hover farts !

No! No! No! Lynda is fart oo environmentally aware to allow the
release of greenhouse gases.

Nick

BrritSki

2020-04-27 15:42:19 UTC

Post by Nick Odell
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:29:59 +0100, BrritSki

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Sheer bloody-mindedness!

Hover farts !

No! No! No! Lynda is fart oo environmentally aware to allow the
release of greenhouse gases.

From her front bottom then. It's a trick she learned in Thailand
wiff-waff tournaments I'm told.

Chris McMillan

2020-04-28 15:46:03 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:14:43 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Sheer bloody-mindedness!

Well yes, this *is* Lyndy!

Sincerely Chris

Sam Plusnet

2020-04-27 19:56:07 UTC

That Personality Transplant Fairy has moved on to become Disability
Transformation Fairy - but then she worked on Brian and Jazzer in the
past, so she's had plenty of practice.

--
Sam Plusnet

Vicky Ayech

2020-04-27 20:16:44 UTC

That Personality Transplant Fairy has moved on to become Disability
Transformation Fairy - but then she worked on Brian and Jazzer in the
past, so she's had plenty of practice.

And Daniel.

Chris McMillan

2020-04-28 15:46:04 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech

That Personality Transplant Fairy has moved on to become Disability
Transformation Fairy - but then she worked on Brian and Jazzer in the
past, so she's had plenty of practice.

And Daniel.

At least with Danul, it was a possibility as TNMF told us

Sincerely Chris

Chris McMillan

2020-04-28 15:46:03 UTC

That Personality Transplant Fairy has moved on to become Disability
Transformation Fairy - but then she worked on Brian and Jazzer in the
past, so she's had plenty of practice.

And magicked Mike, Bethany and Vicky away altogether.

Sincerely Chris

Chris McMillan

2020-04-28 15:46:02 UTC

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:58:12 GMT, Chris McMillan

Post by Chris McMillan
Another thing, Lyndie would also need a hospital bed still surely. No way
can her bones have recovered to get in and out of the average single bed.

You're probably right about that. I think there would, almost
certainly, have been a home visit from an OT and/or physio to check that
it was safe for her to go home and arrange any aids she would need.
They would also have been involved in discussions such as making a
downstairs bedroom for Lynda and she would have been fully aware of, and
involved in, the plans.
As well as a hospital bed, she'd probably have been lent things like a
raised loo seat, long handled grabber, blocks to raise her favourite
chair (unless it was already fairly high) and probably a few other bits
and pieces.
[1] The son of a FOAF

Not sure about a shower anyway because she has lots of burn damage to
skin. Would there have to be a nurse coming in to wash her safely?
Bed bath?

Worse, they seem to think that she'd be able to get in and out of a
bath, unaided. The first day she was home, one of the first things
Robert did for her, IIRC, was to run her a bath; it was clear that she
neither needed nor wanted his help, as she threw a wobbly when he came
into the bathroom, while she was soaking, until he reminder her that
he'd already seen her, and all her burns, while she was in hospital.
How she got herself in and out of it remains a mystery.

Exactly why I said about having the hoist etc, or even a simple bath board
(which having seen one makes me think I’m glad we got rid of our bath for a
walk in shower before we got anywhere near using that sort of thing!

Sincerely Chris

BrritSki

2020-04-22 08:23:19 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Wreaks havoc on Gay Grables kitchen you mean ?

Mike

2020-04-22 08:27:29 UTC

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Wreaks havoc on Gay Grables kitchen you mean ?

Well, it’s a Blake lookout for everyone, including the Police I expect.

--
Toodle Pip

steve hague

2020-04-22 12:08:34 UTC

Post by Mike

Post by Mike
That rat is not just smelly - it wreaks!

Wreaks havoc on Gay Grables kitchen you mean ?

Well, it’s a Blake lookout for everyone, including the Police I expect.

Blake will need at least seven to get him over this.
Steve

Chris J Dixon

2020-04-22 14:17:38 UTC

Post by steve hague
Blake will need at least seven to get him over this.

As I'm sure I have mentioned before, we didn't think it
particularly remarkable when a colleague named his firstborn
Blake. However, when the daughter who followed was named Cally,
we had to ask if he was going to persevere until he reached Orac.

Chris

--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

steve hague

2020-04-23 12:03:25 UTC

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by steve hague
Blake will need at least seven to get him over this.

Or possibly even Zen?

Chris McMillan

2020-04-23 10:18:27 UTC