Day family Welsh Origins

[NSC]

Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.

I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.

I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?

Here is the lineage I have, all being born in Wales:

1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

Thank you kindly.

[Wjhonson]

What sources are you using to evidence that

3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)

people ever existed at all?

I suspect someone is not reading their sources correctly here







-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 10:36 am
Subject: Day family Welsh Origins


Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.

I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.

I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?

Here is the lineage I have, all being born in Wales:

1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

Thank you kindly.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[Renia]

Post by NSC
Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.
I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.
I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?
1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

I don't know a thing about Welsh genealogy, but it would be useful to
know what era this was, or give one or two dates. Perhaps Richard Dee
fought with the Lancastrians during the Wars of the Roses, for example,
and Anglicised his name?

[NSC]

To Renia:

I wouldn't rule out the War of the Roses, or another battle being the
cause of his anglicized name. I'm hoping someone who has done the
research might see this and reply.

The dates I have show Deicws Ddu born 1345 in Wales. His son Richard
Dee born 1363 Radnor, Wales. Richard's son Morgan Dee (1390-1463) born
and died in Radnor, Wales.

[Renia]

Post by NSC
I wouldn't rule out the War of the Roses, or another battle being the
cause of his anglicized name. I'm hoping someone who has done the
research might see this and reply.
The dates I have show Deicws Ddu born 1345 in Wales. His son Richard
Dee born 1363 Radnor, Wales. Richard's son Morgan Dee (1390-1463) born
and died in Radnor, Wales.

What little I do know of Welsh genealogy, is that until as late as the
17th or 18th centuries, the Welsh did not use surnames, but used the
father's name as a "surname".

Your original list shows this:

1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

Ap means "son of", so Ieuan ap Dafydd, and Madoc ap Ieuan, and Deicws ap
Madoc (or Madog). Thus, Madoc's son would be, say, Richard ap Deicws.

Eventually, the "s" suffix began to represent the "son of", hence Madoc
ap Ieuan or Madoc Evans. Other Welsh surnames: Davies; Edwards; Simons;
Maddocks.

With this in mind, it's a bit difficult to imagine, firstly, how Dee
became Day, and, secondly, how Ddu became the surname Dee, particularly
as David Topping has pointed out that Ddu meant "black". David Jameson
also wrote that Deicws "is a familiar form of Rhisiart or Richard".

So in line 3, he was equivalent to Black-haird Richard son of Madoc. His
purported son, Richard Dee, doesn't fit at all, neither does the surname
Dee for the next few generations of Welshmen. They would be more likely:
5 - Morgan ap Deicws
6 - Ieuan ap Deicws
7 - Nicholas (for a Welshman?) ap Ieuan

Unless Morgan (a Welsh name) Dee had actually moved to England, and the
Dee surname carried on there.

[Wjhonson]

What source shows that a Morgan Dee died in 1463 in Radnor?
If it's just this same book and he provides no source, then try to find a source for that
A printed, published source I mean.







-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 11:14 am
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins


To Renia:

I wouldn't rule out the War of the Roses, or another battle being the
cause of his anglicized name. I'm hoping someone who has done the
research might see this and reply.

The dates I have show Deicws Ddu born 1345 in Wales. His son Richard
Dee born 1363 Radnor, Wales. Richard's son Morgan Dee (1390-1463) born
and died in Radnor, Wales.



-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[NSC]

The source I have written down is the "Hereditary Register of the USA
1982". I have an appointment with my library next week (I live in the
sticks) and I will see if I can find a copy to validate or invalidate
what I find.

[David Topping]

Post by NSC
The source I have written down is the "Hereditary Register of the USA
1982". I have an appointment with my library next week (I live in the
sticks) and I will see if I can find a copy to validate or invalidate
what I find.

Try here, specifically. No Richard:
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I13613&tree=Welsh
David

[Wjhonson]

Looking sketchy

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22hereditary+register%22&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=rsd&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ei=Bab5UPikO-eujALt5IH4DQ&ved=0CA0Q_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=471









-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 11:37 am
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins


The source I have written down is the "Hereditary Register of the USA
1982". I have an appointment with my library next week (I live in the
sticks) and I will see if I can find a copy to validate or invalidate
what I find.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[Wjhonson]

Here's an earlier edition, 700 pages!
but you can buy it used for 8 bucks

http://www.amazon.com/Hereditary-Register-United-States-America/dp/B000E7NYZM

I'm not having good feelings on the veracity of this source for someone who died 500 years ago







-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 11:37 am
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins


The source I have written down is the "Hereditary Register of the USA
1982". I have an appointment with my library next week (I live in the
sticks) and I will see if I can find a copy to validate or invalidate
what I find.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[NSC]

Wow, that is a weak looking source. The Welsh Database on FamilySearch
is very large, I have found Deicws Ddu and his family, but no mention of
a Richard. His children were:

Daughters:
Angharad
Tanw

Sons:
Einion
Gruffudd
Rhys

Still no closer to finding out why someone would attribute a Richard to
his family.

[David Topping]

Post by NSC
Wow, that is a weak looking source. The Welsh Database on FamilySearch
is very large, I have found Deicws Ddu and his family, but no mention of
Angharad
Tanw
Einion
Gruffudd
Rhys
Still no closer to finding out why someone would attribute a Richard to
his family.

There has been at least one previous discussion of this family:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/11RP1Iuby18
I can't, though, see actual evidence to support much of this line. Where do the FACTS start?
David

[Derek Howard]

Post by NSC
Wow, that is a weak looking source. The Welsh Database on FamilySearch
is very large, I have found Deicws Ddu and his family, but no mention of
Angharad
Tanw
Einion
Gruffudd
Rhys
Still no closer to finding out why someone would attribute a Richard to
his family.

An example of the conversion of the Welsh name Du to Dee is to be found in relation to the philosopher John Dee, son of Rowland Dee, gentleman server to Henry VIII, son of Bedo Dee, son of Davydd ddu, who are all recorded as Du or Ddu recorded in Deputy Herald Lewys Dwnn’s visitations, printed in “Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the marches between the years 1586 and 1613”, ed Meyrick, vol 1, (Llandovery 1846), at p 167, see:
http://archive.org/stream/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheMarchesBetweenTheYears1586/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheMarchesBetweenTheYears1586And1613ByLewysDwnnVol.1#page/n193/mode/2up
and at p 267, under Llynwenny: http://archive.org/stream/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheMarchesBetweenTheYears1586/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheMarchesBetweenTheYears1586And1613ByLewysDwnnVol.1#page/n295/mode/2up
I have not checked for your ancestors in this source.

Derek Howard

[Wjhonson]

Fishing.






-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 11:51 am
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins


Wow, that is a weak looking source. The Welsh Database on FamilySearch
is very large, I have found Deicws Ddu and his family, but no mention of
a Richard. His children were:

Daughters:
Angharad
Tanw

Sons:
Einion
Gruffudd
Rhys

Still no closer to finding out why someone would attribute a Richard to
his family.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[NSC]

When I fish I usually catch nothing :(

I seem to have found the origin of the supposed Deicws Ddu connection
with Richard Dee. Through the WayBack Machine I have found the remains
of a defunct website (www.dayfamilies.com).
http://web.archive.org/web/20030701113430/http://www.dayfamilies.com/gearlyanc.htm

The origin of this "line" came from that website, I have found it
referenced in multiple places, it no longer exists (2003-2008). The
website states that a Leonard Day wrote a few books on the family
history and supposed had a proven paternal ancestry of Richard Dee. It
is listed on that page near the end. It also states that Leonard Day
died "in the 1970's" and it has no title for the book in question.

I think I have found the origin of the theory, but it seems to be a dead
end. The website was rand by William Day and I do not think he is an
active researcher.

[Bronwen Edwards]

As an aside (but possibly for obvious reasons), when did the common Welsh surnames like Evans, Edwards, Williams, Richards, etc. come into common use? Clearly there would have been people with these personal names from whom these lines came. These names are so common in Wales that it is crazy-making trying to trace non-royal, non-noble lines from America to Wales when all you have is that surname. Bronwen Edwards (my step-father's surname)

[Wjhonson]

Whenever you're curious about *any* printed publication, your first stop is always WorldCat
Always :)


http://www.worldcat.org/title/copy-of-an-additions-to-the-genealogical-register-of-robert-day-of-hartford-connecticut-and-his-two-sons-thomas-and-john/oclc/58876765&referer=brief_results










-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins


When I fish I usually catch nothing :(

I seem to have found the origin of the supposed Deicws Ddu connection
with Richard Dee. Through the WayBack Machine I have found the remains
of a defunct website (www.dayfamilies.com).
http://web.archive.org/web/20030701113430/http://www.dayfamilies.com/gearlyanc.htm

The origin of this "line" came from that website, I have found it
referenced in multiple places, it no longer exists (2003-2008). The
website states that a Leonard Day wrote a few books on the family
history and supposed had a proven paternal ancestry of Richard Dee. It
is listed on that page near the end. It also states that Leonard Day
died "in the 1970's" and it has no title for the book in question.

I think I have found the origin of the theory, but it seems to be a dead
end. The website was rand by William Day and I do not think he is an
active researcher.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[W David Samuelsen]

starting point
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I22381&tree=Welsh

using alleged sister Angharad

and clicked on father, turned up no Richard as son

only these children...

Angharad ferch
Tanw ferch
Einion ap
Gruffudd ap
Rhys ap

Rhys become Richard??

sources are listed below.

How did I find the correct one, just ignore surname!

same software as used by Leo, different versions.

W. David Samuelsen

[David Topping]

Post by W David Samuelsen
starting point
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I22381&tree=Welsh
using alleged sister Angharad
and clicked on father, turned up no Richard as son
only these children...
Angharad ferch
Tanw ferch
Einion ap
Gruffudd ap
Rhys ap
Rhys become Richard??
sources are listed below.
How did I find the correct one, just ignore surname!
same software as used by Leo, different versions.
W. David Samuelsen

The Ddu/Du part of Dicws ‘Ddu’ ap Madog’s name means ‘black’ in English and probably refers to hair colour or some other personal quality. It is pronounced almost identically to Dee, so it would be possible to argue that this is merely an anglicisation. In my experience, however, Rhys was rarely anglicised (except for spelling) and I see no real equivalence to Richard.
The family of Rhys ap Dicws ‘Ddu’ seems to have settled in Trofarth, Betws-yn-Rhos, Denbighshire for several generations.
There would therefore have to be a pretty solid bit of documentary evidence to identify this individual with Richard Dee.
Mwynhewch eich diwrnod
David

[NSC]

Post by Wjhonson
What sources are you using to evidence that
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
people ever existed at all?
I suspect someone is not reading their sources correctly here
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 10:36 am
Subject: Day family Welsh Origins
Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.
I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.
I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?
1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day
Thank you kindly.
-------------------------------
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

To Wjhonson:

One of the sources I am using to reach Morgan Dee son of Richard Dee
is the book "A Genealogical Register of the Descendants in the Male Line
of Robert Day" by George Edward Day. That book does not mention the
father of Richard Dee, it only states that the ancestry of the Day
family lies in Wales.
I have no solid source for the father of Richard Dee. Everywhere I
look Deicws Ddu is his supposed father, but no-one seems to have a
source for that, which is why I am here. I believe one person either
made it up or sourced it from somewhere and it spread like wildfire.
Did they exist at all? I do not know.

[Wjhonson]

The connection back that one step is without any evidence then.
Online family trees are completely worthless for this sort of inquiry.
You need to extract what sources this man used for his book (if any), and start with that.







-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
To: Wjhonson <***@aol.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 11:08 am
Subject: Re: Day family Welsh Origins



On 1/18/2013 12:53 PM, Wjhonson wrote:


What sources are you using to evidence that

3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)



people ever existed at all?



I suspect someone is not reading their sources correctly here












-----Original Message-----
From: NSC <***@me.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 10:36 am
Subject: Day family Welsh Origins



Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.

I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.

I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?

Here is the lineage I have, all being born in Wales:

1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

Thank you kindly.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message






To Wjhonson:

One of the sources I am using to reach Morgan Dee son of Richard Dee
is the book "A Genealogical Register of the Descendants in the Male Line
of Robert Day" by George Edward Day. That book does not mention the
father of Richard Dee, it only states that the ancestry of the Day
family lies in Wales.
I have no solid source for the father of Richard Dee. Everywhere I
look Deicws Ddu is his supposed father, but no-one seems to have a
source for that, which is why I am here. I believe one person either
made it up or sourced it from somewhere and it spread like wildfire.
Did they exist at all? I do not know.

[Renia]

Post by NSC
Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.
I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.
I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?
1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day

Familysearch is setting up a Welsh database:

http://histfam.familysearch.org/showtree.php?tree=Welsh

[O***@aol.com]

Post by David Topping
The Ddu/Du part of Dicws ‘Ddu’ ap Madog’s name means ‘black’ in English

and probably

Post by David Topping
refers to hair colour or some other personal quality. It is pronounced

almost identically to Dee,

Post by David Topping
so it would be possible to argue that this is merely an anglicisation. In

my experience, however,

Post by David Topping
Rhys was rarely anglicised (except for spelling) and I see no real

equivalence to Richard.

Post by David Topping
The family of Rhys ap Dicws ‘Ddu’ seems to have settled in Trofarth,

Betws-yn-Rhos,

Post by David Topping
Denbighshire for several generations.
There would therefore have to be a pretty solid bit of documentary

evidence to identify this

Post by David Topping
individual with Richard Dee.
Mwynhewch eich diwrnod
David

David Topping is correct. It is inconceivable that a 14th century Welshman
Deicws ap Madog who as an individual was known contemporaneously as Deicws
"Ddu" (black Deicws) would have, because of that appellation, any
connection with a much later family which had the surname Day. None of his children,
even, would have carried the "Ddu" appellation. Deicws itself is a
familiar form of Rhisiart (Richard) equivalent to English Dick or Dicken. The
names Rhys and Richard have no connection with each other at all.

David Jameson

[NSC]

`I agree that makes no sense, and there is no basis for that connection
to have been made in the first place. I hope other Day family
researches find this thread and learn something, or chime in with their
own research.

[Claudia Day]

Post by NSC
`I agree that makes no sense, and there is no basis for that connection
to have been made in the first place. I hope other Day family
researches find this thread and learn something, or chime in with their
own research.

In the Latin Romance languages the "e" is pronounced as a long "a" sound. Dee would be pronounced the same as Day. I am often asked how to spell my last name probably because people are aware of the Dey spelling.
I found a Welsh language book...Someday I'll sit down and read it.
Leonard Frances Day added the female line and two years work on ancestors from the Royal Museum in London to George Edward Day's "Descendants of Robert Day in the Male Line" to publish "The Ancient Family of Dee and Day of Wales, Ireland and England" by Pine Hill Press in Freeman, South Dakota. On page 191 Richard Dee of
Newport, Shropshire.
p. 192 Morgan, = Maud, dau., of Howell ap Madoc.
John Dee, = Margaret, dau. of
Llewelyn ap Howell
Griffith ap Grono.
Nicholas Day, =
English
spelling.
Richard, = Elizabeth
Worfield Osborne,
co. Salop
Richard,=
Robert=Vrsulowe {Ursulowe} page 177

The book is available at The New York State Library in Albany, The University of Virginia Library. It was at the Library of Michigan in Lansing. They have culled their shelves. It might still be there.


Claudia Day

[Claudia Day]

Post by NSC
`I agree that makes no sense, and there is no basis for that connection
to have been made in the first place. I hope other Day family
researches find this thread and learn something, or chime in with their
own research.

That is John Dee's wife is Margaret, dau., of Llewelyn ap Howell
Griffith ap Grono

[Claudia Day]

Post by NSC
`I agree that makes no sense, and there is no basis for that connection
to have been made in the first place. I hope other Day family
researches find this thread and learn something, or chime in with their
own research.

Griffith ap Grono is directly under Llewelyn ap Howell. I've typed it twice, and each time the program moves the phrases.

There must be some left between Howell and Griffith. Does anyone know?

Claudia Day

[Claudia Day]

Post by NSC
`I agree that makes no sense, and there is no basis for that connection
to have been made in the first place. I hope other Day family
researches find this thread and learn something, or chime in with their
own research.

Also The River Dee flows between England and Wales.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by NSC
Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.
I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.
I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?
1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day
Thank you kindly.

My last name is Day and apparently comes from Wales originally spelled Dee. Richard Dee being the first with that last name. I believe Nicholas 1635-1704 was his son. I am researching the Dee name too. I think it comes from the settlers who lived along the Dee river in Wales.

[m***@gmail.com]

I've been doing some research. I have come up with being cousin 17 times removed of King Henry VIII and King Edward VII (who Share the same blood line) Through the surname of wentworth. Also I took have searched it all the way back to the Dinefwr dynasty of Wales. Also My line has shown a surname of Beaumont via marriage through wentworth which goes into French Royalty as well.

[m***@gmail.com]

My Line that I have found to British/UK Royalty


First One:
14th Great Grand Father was Sir John Day 1544 who Married Elizabeth Wentworth
- Elizabeth's 2nd Great Grandfather's Aunt is Jane Seymour (Wentworth Maiden Name) who was King Henry VIII Last Wife. Their Child was King Edward VI.

Second One:
19th Great Grand Father is Morgan Dee 1390. I have a paper exert from a book written by Leonard Day anyone can email me and ill send them the scanned photo if you go to Morgan Dee. But it goes back to 727, King of Deyrallug, Cadell and the House of Dinefwr - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Dinefwr

Some notable People :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhys_ap_Tewdwr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maredudd_ab_Owain_ab_Edwin

Several More: Also later on there is a link to the Tudor Dynasty which is Queen Elizabeth, King Henry etc.

[m***@gmail.com]

Also a book if anyone is interested


https://archive.org/details/genealogicalregi00dayg

[2***@gmail.com]

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by NSC
Long time reader, first time poster. I am hoping that someone can help
me clear this up, please bear with me.
I am looking into the Welsh origins of the Day/Daye/Dee/Ddu family. I
am having trouble with a supposed son of Deikws Dee (Deicws Ddu), the
son being Richard Dee. I have found conflicting information online an
through my reading.
I can't seem to accept the idea that a Welsh man (Deikws) with other
children named using the Welsh naming system would have a son with a
Germanic name (Richard) and an anglicized surname (Dee). Unless he
changed his name to Richard later in his life (since the English King
was named Richard). Perhaps he disliked his family and "became
English", I don't know. Does anyone have some information that can
clear my conscience?
1 - Ieuan Goch ap Dafydd
2 - Madoc Goch ap Ieuan
3 - Deicws Ddu ap Madoc
4 - Richard Dee (siblings names Einion, Angharad, Tanw)
5 - Morgan Dee
6 - John Dee
7 - Nicholas Dee
8 - Richard Warfield Day
Thank you kindly.

Hi I've been working on this all night, and frankly i'm knackered!
Up for work at 3.30am!!
Would love to discuss this this onne day.
Drop me a line someday.
You can find my tree page on My Heritage web site, Tony Day