Discussion:
MOU IS OUT!
(too old to reply)
anders t
2018-12-18 10:32:44 UTC
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Just sayin'.
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Manchester United FC - CHAMPIONS
Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 13:14:04 UTC
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Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Finally some good news for United. I actually feel sad. No, no, I really do. The ride was just so much fun. I will cherish those memories for a long time. The fights, the discord, the press conferences, the insults, the results, oh sweet memories....
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 13:29:41 UTC
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Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Names being thrown around:

Pochettino - Real Madrid have a rumored interest too, I can't see him picking MU over them. Plus he seems to be a man of principal, so it's highly doubtful he'd jump to another EPL club.

Zidane - That would be interesting. But the man has shown that he can smell a sinking ship, so would he? Maybe with a boatload of money to spend he could be convinced.

Conte - A man not too dissimilar to Mourinho, so I doubt it.

Blanc - Meh.
MH
2018-12-18 17:59:53 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Pochettino - Real Madrid have a rumored interest too, I can't see him picking MU over them. Plus he seems to be a man of principal, so it's highly doubtful he'd jump to another EPL club.
I think he would be OK, but I am not sold on him.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Zidane - That would be interesting. But the man has shown that he can smell a sinking ship, so would he? Maybe with a boatload of money to spend he could be convinced.
Not a great choice, in my view. He was already connected to Real, and
spoke the language quite well, and commanded respect. Less obvious that
this would all work in the mess that currently is United.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Conte - A man not too dissimilar to Mourinho, so I doubt it.
Seems to be difficult to work with, and has tantrums if he does not get
what he wants. I think you are right about too much similarity to
Mourinho.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Blanc - Meh.
On the contrary, I think he is a reasonable candidate. A former player,
an intelligent guy, and experienced at handling big egos from both his
France and PSG days. Also did very well at Bordeaux with more limited
resources.


Other people I would look at if I were Glazers:

Deschamps. Serial winner, smart, experienced. Nothing left to prove with
France.

Eddie Howe. Why not give a break to a young Englishman who clearly
knows what he is doing ?

Nagelsmann ? Very young and a bit of a risk, but a lot of consensus
that he is the next big thing.

Adi Hütter ? Only just started at Frankfurt, but his CV is already
quite impressive.

Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 18:24:42 UTC
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Post by MH
Marco Rose ?
Too young and completely inexperienced, plus he wouldn't leave Dortmund mid-season while sitting on top of the Bundesliga.
MH
2018-12-18 18:38:58 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
Marco Rose ?
Too young and completely inexperienced, plus he wouldn't leave Dortmund mid-season while sitting on top of the Bundesliga.
What are you smoking ? Lucien Favre is Dortmund's coach and his entire
CV indicates he is top notch. But as you say he is not going to leave
Dortmund for a while.

Rose is at Salzburg. And yes, he is inexperienced, though not that young
compared to say, Nagelsmann (much younger) or Howe (same age)
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 19:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
Marco Rose ?
Too young and completely inexperienced, plus he wouldn't leave Dortmund mid-season while sitting on top of the Bundesliga.
What are you smoking ? Lucien Favre is Dortmund's coach and his entire
CV indicates he is top notch. But as you say he is not going to leave
Dortmund for a while.
Rose is at Salzburg. And yes, he is inexperienced, though not that young
compared to say, Nagelsmann (much younger) or Howe (same age)
Never mind, failed attempt at some corny humor.
Futbolmetrix
2018-12-18 23:56:08 UTC
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Post by MH
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Conte - A man not too dissimilar to Mourinho, so I doubt it.
Seems to be difficult to work with, and has tantrums if he does not get
what he wants.  I think you are right about too much similarity to
Mourinho.
This being ManU, people are naturally looking for the new Ferguson, a
man who can be in charge for 25 years. If that's what you are looking
for, then Conte is not the right choice, because he seems unable to
establish a long-term commitment. But if you're looking for immediate
success, then he seems to be clearly the best candidate. Won the title
in his first season at Juve (and then two more), won it in his first
season at Chelsea, took an absolutely dreadful Italian NT to the edge of
a Euro semifinal.

As for his playing style, many Juve fans consider Conte's first season
at Juve as the most aesthetically appealing one of the last seven years,
even if it ended with the lowest number of goals scored and lowest point
total. Maybe it was just the contrast with the dreck we had witnessed in
the past two years. Or maybe being out of the European Cups meant that
he could focus more on training in midweek, or just get the players to
run harder. His team then became more conservative (and also more
efficient) in the next two years. It culminated in a title won with 102
points in his third and last season.

My point is, he may not be Guardiola, but his teams can play plenty
attractive football.
Werner Pichler
2018-12-19 10:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Deschamps. Serial winner, smart, experienced. Nothing left to prove with
France.
Eddie Howe. Why not give a break to a young Englishman who clearly
knows what he is doing ?
Nagelsmann ? Very young and a bit of a risk, but a lot of consensus
that he is the next big thing.
Adi Hütter ? Only just started at Frankfurt, but his CV is already
quite impressive.
Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
Hands off!

Nobody available in the Spanish League? Could they e.g. get Machín from Sevilla?


Ciao,
Werner
Werner Pichler
2018-12-19 10:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Deschamps. Serial winner, smart, experienced. Nothing left to prove with
France.
Eddie Howe. Why not give a break to a young Englishman who clearly
knows what he is doing ?
Nagelsmann ? Very young and a bit of a risk, but a lot of consensus
that he is the next big thing.
Adi Hütter ? Only just started at Frankfurt, but his CV is already
quite impressive.
If we're naming Austrians, Peter Stöger already proved that he knows how to get
an underachieving side into the Champions League by letting them play terrible
football!


Ciao,
Werner
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-19 14:33:54 UTC
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Post by MH
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Pochettino - Real Madrid have a rumored interest too, I can't see him picking MU over them. Plus he seems to be a man of principal, so it's highly doubtful he'd jump to another EPL club.
I think he would be OK, but I am not sold on him.
This I don't get. Aside from taking his team to third place or better in the last 3 seasons, with a net-spend of about €20-30m total over his 4+ years in charge, promoting young talent into his team more than possibly any manager at a top-tier club in Europe, what else do you expect from him?

Yes, maybe he could have won a domestic cup or something, but as you yourself often point out, those single knockout type competitions are heavily dependent on luck.
MH
2018-12-19 17:43:20 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Pochettino - Real Madrid have a rumored interest too, I can't see him picking MU over them. Plus he seems to be a man of principal, so it's highly doubtful he'd jump to another EPL club.
I think he would be OK, but I am not sold on him.
This I don't get. Aside from taking his team to third place or better
Yes but never seriously got near the title, even in the year Leicester
won and a Spurs league win was well within the bounds of possibility.
They do well by dropping very few points against the bottom 2/3 of the
league, but their record against the top teams is not good enough to win
anything.


in the last 3 seasons, with a net-spend of about €20-30m total over his
4+ years in charge, promoting young talent into his team more than
possibly any manager at a top-tier club in Europe, what else do you
expect from him?
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Yes, maybe he could have won a domestic cup or something, but as you yourself often point out, those single knockout type competitions are heavily dependent on luck.
Werner Pichler
2019-04-04 15:48:04 UTC
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Post by MH
Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
Gladbach? Meh.


Ciao,
Werner
MH
2019-04-04 18:15:19 UTC
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Post by Werner Pichler
Post by MH
Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
Gladbach? Meh.
Probably better than Celtic, who were also trying to get him. But I
think Rose could have done better.

I wonder who is next for Celtic. Maybe ex-player Paul Lambert, whose
Ipswich look certain to be relegated. Or Gordon Strachan again ?
Post by Werner Pichler
Ciao,
Werner
MH
2019-04-04 21:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Pichler
Post by MH
Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
Gladbach? Meh.
Ciao,
Werner
How sought after are Markus Krösche (read 1 FNC were after him) and
Florian Kohfeldt? They would appear to be young up and coming managers.
Werner Pichler
2019-04-15 09:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Pichler
Post by MH
Marco Rose ? I am very impressed with what he has done in Salzburg.
Gladbach? Meh.
Not very surprisingly Red Bull have gone for the in-house solution as Rose's
replacement and have appointed Jesse Marsch as new Salzburg coach.

Would he - fingers crossed - become the first US-American manager in the
Champions League?


Ciao,
Werner

MH
2018-12-18 19:06:41 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Pochettino - Real Madrid have a rumored interest too, I can't see him picking MU over them. Plus he seems to be a man of principal, so it's highly doubtful he'd jump to another EPL club.
Zidane - That would be interesting. But the man has shown that he can smell a sinking ship, so would he? Maybe with a boatload of money to spend he could be convinced.
Conte - A man not too dissimilar to Mourinho, so I doubt it.
Blanc - Meh.
Here's two slightly off the wall choices:

Cocu - did well at PSV, just fired by Fenerbahce, could give him the job
for the rest of the year and see how he does. Must have learned a thing
or two at Barca.

Van Bronckhorst. Decent record at Feyenoord (first title in 18 years),
played in Scotland and England (so good English) and Spain. Absorbed
the Barca mentality. Has been at Feyenoord long enough now that a move
might be worth considering if he wants to increase his profile.
Jesper Lauridsen
2018-12-18 13:29:46 UTC
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Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
What do you have against Mou? It fits this time of year.

https://www.mou.dk/
Google Beta User
2018-12-18 13:45:49 UTC
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I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?

Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.

The squad isn't a title-challenging team: https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/first-team

They need a lot of work, either with a Pochettino style project, or spend another half-a-billion.

Also a lot of their fans overestimating their pull as the "biggest name in the sport" and assuming they'll be forever a financial juggernaut. They'll see if they haven't already yet as we did in the 1990s that there's no god given right to always be winning.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 14:24:54 UTC
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Post by Google Beta User
I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?
Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.
You've named their 4 biggest stars - 2 of which have already shown they can be world class and 2 who have the potential. They also have Sanchez upfront, who still has gas in the tank.

In midfield they have Matic who has an EPL title, and Fred who isn't a bad player. Herrera is also a good workhorse off the bench, he would certainly get minutes if he was at LFC. The defense is aging for sure, but they have Dalot who's one for the future and Bailly who is an excellent defender if he can stay fit.

The squad isn't a world beater but it's certainly top 4 caliber. If they buy a top CB and a dominant CM they can be a formidable outfit in the new year again.

Their biggest problem was that Mourinho had completely destroyed the heart and soul of the team.

I don't think Mourinho will ever get a top-top team again - the best he can hope for is a return to Inter.
Google Beta User
2018-12-18 15:31:03 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Google Beta User
I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?
Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.
You've named their 4 biggest stars - 2 of which have already shown they can be world class
I conceded De Gea, and I think Pogba is leaving.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
and 2 who have the potential. They also have Sanchez upfront, who still has gas in the tank.
Sanchez, Rashford and Martial wouldn't get into the XI of any other top 6 team.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
In midfield they have Matic who has an EPL title, and Fred who isn't a bad player. Herrera is also a good workhorse off the bench, he would certainly get minutes if he was at LFC.
Over who? Over Lallana maybe. Not over Milner, Gini or Henderson who are arguably the second choice midfield if we had all midfielders available.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The defense is aging for sure, but they have Dalot who's one for the future and Bailly who is an excellent defender if he can stay fit.
I wasn't saying they have zero players. I was saying they're not as good as the other top six teams, and it's not even close.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The squad isn't a world beater but it's certainly top 4 caliber.
I don't think so.

I want to say maybe Arsenal, but under Emery so far they seem a little mentally stronger.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Google Beta User
If they buy a top CB and a dominant CM they can be a formidable outfit in the new year again.
Problem is it's not a two-team league anyway. The others will improve too.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Their biggest problem was that Mourinho had completely destroyed the heart and soul of the team.
Their bigger problem is they are just objectively not THAT good. They're really at about their level--upper-midtable.
MH
2018-12-18 18:09:05 UTC
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Post by Google Beta User
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Google Beta User
I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?
Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.
You've named their 4 biggest stars - 2 of which have already shown they can be world class
I conceded De Gea, and I think Pogba is leaving.
Pogba might thrive under a different manager.
Post by Google Beta User
Post by a***@hotmail.com
and 2 who have the potential. They also have Sanchez upfront, who still has gas in the tank.
Again, Sanchez might turn things around with a new manager.
Post by Google Beta User
Sanchez, Rashford and Martial wouldn't get into the XI of any other top 6 team.
They would get regular playing time with some. Chelsea is weak up
front, Arsenal would be glad to have Sanchez back. Spurs have no depth
at striker beyond Kane.
And don't forget Lukaku. Yes, he has been in a slump, and has looked
overweight and lumbering for about the past year, but he would still be
a regular starter ahead of Giroud or Morata, and offers options to
Aubameyang/Lacazette.
Post by Google Beta User
Post by a***@hotmail.com
In midfield they have Matic who has an EPL title, and Fred who isn't a bad player. Herrera is also a good workhorse off the bench, he would certainly get minutes if he was at LFC.
Over who? Over Lallana maybe. Not over Milner, Gini or Henderson who are arguably the second choice midfield if we had all midfielders available.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The defense is aging for sure, but they have Dalot who's one for the future and Bailly who is an excellent defender if he can stay fit.
I wasn't saying they have zero players. I was saying they're not as good as the other top six teams, and it's not even close.
Shaw is still a promising prospect if he can stay injury free.
Post by Google Beta User
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The squad isn't a world beater but it's certainly top 4 caliber.
I don't think so.
I think it is. They have more depth than Spurs, and in theory more
depth at the back than Arsenal.
Post by Google Beta User
I want to say maybe Arsenal, but under Emery so far they seem a little mentally stronger.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Google Beta User
If they buy a top CB and a dominant CM they can be a formidable outfit in the new year again.
Problem is it's not a two-team league anyway. The others will improve too.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Their biggest problem was that Mourinho had completely destroyed the heart and soul of the team.
Their bigger problem is they are just objectively not THAT good. They're really at about their level--upper-midtable.
Mehdi
2019-01-28 21:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Google Beta User
Sanchez, Rashford and Martial wouldn't get into the XI of any other top 6 team.
What a dumb thing to say, even with the benefit of hindsight.
Post by Google Beta User
Their bigger problem is they are just objectively not THAT good.
They're really at about their level--upper-midtable.
They have the third best squad in the league. They have the best GK and
best MF in the World.
RED DEVIL
2018-12-19 20:20:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Google Beta User
I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?
Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.
You've named their 4 biggest stars - 2 of which have already shown they can be world class and 2 who have the potential. They also have Sanchez upfront, who still has gas in the tank.
In midfield they have Matic who has an EPL title, and Fred who isn't a bad player. Herrera is also a good workhorse off the bench, he would certainly get minutes if he was at LFC. The defense is aging for sure, but they have Dalot who's one for the future and Bailly who is an excellent defender if he can stay fit.
The squad isn't a world beater but it's certainly top 4 caliber. If they buy a top CB and a dominant CM they can be a formidable outfit in the new year again.
Their biggest problem was that Mourinho had completely destroyed the heart and soul of the team.
I don't think Mourinho will ever get a top-top team again - the best he can hope for is a return to Inter.
Hard for me to admit, but I totally agree with you.




The RED DEVIL
RED DEVIL
2018-12-19 20:19:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 05:45:49 -0800 (PST), Google Beta User
Post by Google Beta User
I'm seeing lots of very well paid pundits saying this is a talented team that will do MUCH better. I mean sure, they'll get a new manager bump, but other than that, what are people seeing that I'm not?
Other than De Gea who do they have that would get into the XI of the other top 6? Ok Pogba but I get the feeling he's done. Martial is good when he's on, and Rashford will be good if he has more levels on him.
The squad isn't a title-challenging team: https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/first-team
They need a lot of work, either with a Pochettino style project, or spend another half-a-billion.
Also a lot of their fans overestimating their pull as the "biggest name in the sport" and assuming they'll be forever a financial juggernaut. They'll see if they haven't already yet as we did in the 1990s that there's no god given right to always be winning.
Club Legend Ole Gunnar Solksjaer takes over until end of season with
seasoned United #2 Mike Phelan. Hope he gives the youth a chance. The
Youth teams are bursting with talent and its time to blood a few of
them. Chong and Gomez come to mind but there are others worthy of a
chance to show what they can do. Young Striker Greenwood looks very
good but has just turned 17, still he has the build and speed to
trouble defenders at any level.

"And Solkjaers won it"







The RED DEVIL
anders t
2018-12-18 18:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Still, Mou had more trophies during his years in MU than Liverpool has had
in ten years...
--
Manchester United FC - CHAMPIONS
Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-18 18:34:19 UTC
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Post by anders t
Still, Mou had more trophies during his years in MU than Liverpool has had
in ten years...
In an all or nothing world, that is true. But a more nuanced view paints a slightly different picture. Those 2 cups were won in the most bland manner with incredibly easy paths.

Europa League: Saint-Étienne->Rostov->Anderlecht->Celta Vigo->Ajax
Carabao Cup: Northampton->Man City->WHU->Hull->Southampton

Aside from Man City, who IIRC played with a mostly second string team, it was a cakewalk in both instances, and yet United made very hard work of some of those games.

Klopp's Europa run alone in 2016 was more impressive than both those cups combined.

Oh and btw, you forgot the Community Shield.
anders t
2018-12-18 21:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
--
Manchester United FC - CHAMPIONS
Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08
Qian Cai
2018-12-19 01:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.

Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-19 14:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Qian Cai
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
What are your views on Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier, Davies, and Winks?
Qian Cai
2018-12-19 15:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
What are your views on Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier, Davies, and Winks?
Kane is a good player. Not a world class. He lakes of creativity compared
to top ones like Suarez. He could find a role in top elite club, Juventus,
PSG, Barcelona and Man City.

Others are only promising. No role for them in top elite clubs.

The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-20 18:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Qian Cai
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
What are your views on Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier, Davies, and Winks?
Kane is a good player. Not a world class. He lakes of creativity compared
to top ones like Suarez. He could find a role in top elite club, Juventus,
PSG, Barcelona and Man City.
You should decide what your argument is. First you said that "Pochettino isn’t that great to develop players," now you're saying that Kane isn't world class. Those are two different things. Just because a player isn't considered WC doesn't mean he hasn't been developed well by a coach.

Having a half dozen grown starters in a team that's finished in the top 3 of the most competitive and richest league in the world for 3 consecutive seasons, and made the knockouts of the UCL for 2 consecutive seasons is a very impressive feat.

On a side-note, in my opinion Kane is WC (based on numbers alone), and he's an excellent passer of the ball, which would fall into the 'creative' category in some definitions. Sergio Ramos said earlier this year that Kane surprises defenders with his technical qualities.
Post by Qian Cai
Others are only promising. No role for them in top elite clubs.
Agreed on most, but Alli might have a few top suitors should he want to leave Spurs.
Post by Qian Cai
The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
That cliche is over a decade old and quite outdated. Even the English have wisened up to the limitations of their players and teams, as witnessed by the performances of their clubs and country in international/continental competitions over the last decade or so.
Qian Cai
2018-12-21 00:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
What are your views on Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier, Davies, and Winks?
Kane is a good player. Not a world class. He lakes of creativity compared
to top ones like Suarez. He could find a role in top elite club, Juventus,
PSG, Barcelona and Man City.
You should decide what your argument is. First you said that "Pochettino
isn’t that great to develop players," now you're saying that Kane isn't
world class. Those are two different things. Just because a player isn't
considered WC doesn't mean he hasn't been developed well by a coach.
Having a half dozen grown starters in a team that's finished in the top 3
of the most competitive and richest league in the world for 3 consecutive
seasons, and made the knockouts of the UCL for 2 consecutive seasons is a
very impressive feat.
The core of the Spur team, Hugo Lloris, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Kane,
Eriksen. Only Alderweireld was purchased by Pochettino. Others are
inherited from previous managers. So, there is also no proof that he is
good at making good transfers once have budget.

Spurs without Eriksen is like a man without attacking brain.

I have to agree the overall results are good compared to how much he spent
but it does not mean he is good at developing players.

Going to ManU means the bars is much higher, i.e., trophies not only just
qualifying for UCL.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
On a side-note, in my opinion Kane is WC (based on numbers alone), and
he's an excellent passer of the ball, which would fall into the
'creative' category in some definitions. Sergio Ramos said earlier this
year that Kane surprises defenders with his technical qualities.
The world class attackers are Suarez, Hazard, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and
Mbappe who has so many weapons to break defenses directly and open up
spaces, dribbling, shooting, free kicks, headers. Kane can shoot (some time
can be a possession killer) and header, but no dribbling and his first
touch isn’t that great compared to above which is everything. His short
pass is OK though but lack of imagination.

Kane is for now is more like another Rooney or Owen. Both were considered
WC by English media and people. Although he has potential to develop into
WC, he need seriously improve his dribbling, first touch and decision
making though not just shoot from everywhere.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Others are only promising. No role for them in top elite clubs.
Agreed on most, but Alli might have a few top suitors should he want to leave Spurs.
Post by Qian Cai
The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
That cliche is over a decade old and quite outdated. Even the English
have wisened up to the limitations of their players and teams, as
witnessed by the performances of their clubs and country in
international/continental competitions over the last decade or so.
One OK World Cup and is really lucky. Played only one good game against
Sweden. Lucky to win the penalty against Colombia. Lucky to be drawn in an
easy good. Have to watch and see what the future hold. The only noticed
improvement is hiring a sports
psychologist which really paid off and finally found a decent goalkeeper.

The playing style is still too much defensive with focus on set piece to
break deadlocks.

One data point of inflation is Luck Shaw’s salary is 10m UK pounds per year
which is more than anyone in Juventus except Ronaldo.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-12-21 02:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Qian Cai
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
What are your views on Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier, Davies, and Winks?
Kane is a good player. Not a world class. He lakes of creativity compared
to top ones like Suarez. He could find a role in top elite club, Juventus,
PSG, Barcelona and Man City.
You should decide what your argument is. First you said that "Pochettino
isn’t that great to develop players," now you're saying that Kane isn't
world class. Those are two different things. Just because a player isn't
considered WC doesn't mean he hasn't been developed well by a coach.
Having a half dozen grown starters in a team that's finished in the top 3
of the most competitive and richest league in the world for 3 consecutive
seasons, and made the knockouts of the UCL for 2 consecutive seasons is a
very impressive feat.
The core of the Spur team, Hugo Lloris, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Kane,
Eriksen. Only Alderweireld was purchased by Pochettino. Others are
inherited from previous managers. So, there is also no proof that he is
good at making good transfers once have budget.
Spurs without Eriksen is like a man without attacking brain.
I have to agree the overall results are good compared to how much he spent
but it does not mean he is good at developing players.
Going to ManU means the bars is much higher, i.e., trophies not only just
qualifying for UCL.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
On a side-note, in my opinion Kane is WC (based on numbers alone), and
he's an excellent passer of the ball, which would fall into the
'creative' category in some definitions. Sergio Ramos said earlier this
year that Kane surprises defenders with his technical qualities.
The world class attackers are Suarez, Hazard, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and
Mbappe who has so many weapons to break defenses directly and open up
spaces, dribbling, shooting, free kicks, headers. Kane can shoot (some time
can be a possession killer) and header, but no dribbling and his first
touch isn’t that great compared to above which is everything. His short
pass is OK though but lack of imagination.
There is only one #9 in your list above (Suarez). The rest are all mostly wide forwards. #9s don't need to dribble or make assists (though both are bonuses), their main job is to score goals (and hold up play until the cavalry arrives, in some systems). And Kane is pretty freaking good at scoring goals. He has scored 117 goals in 167 league games for Spurs, that's a phenomenal strike-rate.

And btw, he's got a good range of passing too. Watch England's win over Spain last fall and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about. His footballing IQ is very high too.
Post by Qian Cai
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
Others are only promising. No role for them in top elite clubs.
Agreed on most, but Alli might have a few top suitors should he want to leave Spurs.
Post by Qian Cai
The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
That cliche is over a decade old and quite outdated. Even the English
have wisened up to the limitations of their players and teams, as
witnessed by the performances of their clubs and country in
international/continental competitions over the last decade or so.
One OK World Cup and is really lucky. Played only one good game against
Sweden. Lucky to win the penalty against Colombia. Lucky to be drawn in an
easy good. Have to watch and see what the future hold. The only noticed
improvement is hiring a sports
psychologist which really paid off and finally found a decent goalkeeper.
Looks like you missed my point. I was arguing that England's performances on the international stage have actually been subpar and underwhelming over the last decade, leading the English faithful to finally start acknowledging that their players might have been domestically overrated.
Qian Cai
2018-12-21 03:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
The world class attackers are Suarez, Hazard, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo and
Mbappe who has so many weapons to break defenses directly and open up
spaces, dribbling, shooting, free kicks, headers. Kane can shoot (some time
can be a possession killer) and header, but no dribbling and his first
touch isn’t that great compared to above which is everything. His short
pass is OK though but lack of imagination.
There is only one #9 in your list above (Suarez). The rest are all mostly
wide forwards. #9s don't need to dribble or make assists (though both are
bonuses), their main job is to score goals (and hold up play until the
cavalry arrives, in some systems). And Kane is pretty freaking good at
scoring goals. He has scored 117 goals in 167 league games for Spurs,
that's a phenomenal strike-rate.
I agree he is very good at taking credit like Rooney but using scoring
goals as a measurement can be very misleading, i.e., goals scored by
trashing low-tier teams is less meaningful.

He is a old-fashion #9 which means he needs to depend on other creative
players to create chances. That is why it is easier to defense against once
high-tier teams figured out their focus is shut off Eriksen instead.

In modern football, transitional #9 is no longer a mandatory due to above
limitation, so if he goes to those 4 top elite clubs, the whole attacking
strategy will not be based on him but other creative players.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
And btw, he's got a good range of passing too. Watch England's win over
Spain last fall and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about. His
footballing IQ is very high too.
I watched that game and he played really well, but it is easy to play one
very good game than consistently performance that kind of creativity.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
One OK World Cup and is really lucky. Played only one good game against
Sweden. Lucky to win the penalty against Colombia. Lucky to be drawn in an
easy good. Have to watch and see what the future hold. The only noticed
improvement is hiring a sports
psychologist which really paid off and finally found a decent goalkeeper.
Looks like you missed my point. I was arguing that England's performances
on the international stage have actually been subpar and underwhelming
over the last decade, leading the English faithful to finally start
acknowledging that their players might have been domestically overrated.
The ego is on the rise again due to “success” of this World Cup and Europe
National league.
Werner Pichler
2018-12-21 12:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
That cliche is over a decade old and quite outdated. Even the English have
wisened up to the limitations of their players and teams, as witnessed by
the performances of their clubs and country in international/continental
competitions over the last decade or so.
The problem as I see it is not so much that the English (media and fans)
tend to overlook the limitations of their players - in fact nobody lays into
them quite as viciously - but that they have a woefully inadequate
knowledge of the game outside the Premier League. It's one thing to lament
that 'our players are so bad they lose even against XY', quite another to
appreciate that 'our players are good, but those others they play against
are also good'.

Ciao,
Werner
Qian Cai
2018-12-21 14:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Pichler
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Qian Cai
The power of English media is inflating all those English players.
That cliche is over a decade old and quite outdated. Even the English have
wisened up to the limitations of their players and teams, as witnessed by
the performances of their clubs and country in international/continental
competitions over the last decade or so.
The problem as I see it is not so much that the English (media and fans)
tend to overlook the limitations of their players - in fact nobody lays into
them quite as viciously - but that they have a woefully inadequate
knowledge of the game outside the Premier League. It's one thing to lament
that 'our players are so bad they lose even against XY', quite another to
appreciate that 'our players are good, but those others they play against
are also good'.
Very true. Even is U.S. I am living in New England and surrounding by
people overwhelming only knew EPL because it is only league that is
broadcasting on main channels. Even UCL has to pay to watch.

Even though they don’t watch other leagues and made comments like La Liga
is only two teams and the rest of teams’ quality dropped significantly.
They think other leagues are too slow too.
Mehdi
2019-01-28 21:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Qian Cai
Pocchetino isn’t that great to develop players. Walker was only a decent
player under him but developed into the best in EPL only under Guardiola.
Danny Rose is totally destroyed under him who looks so so promising a few
years ago.
Rose is thick and Dele Alli, Kane and Son have developed into fantastic
players under Pochettino.
RED DEVIL
2018-12-19 20:26:31 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 22:19:42 +0100, anders t
Post by anders t
Question is: Is Tottenham interested in letting Pocchetino go already in
January? That way they can at least get some money for him.
United aren't interested in him coming in Jan.

FWIW, Im hearing Solkjaer/Phelan until end of season (Confirmed by
Club today). Pocchetino in the Summer with Paul Mitchell coming as
Director of Football.

But who knows?




The RED DEVIL
Werner Pichler
2018-12-19 10:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
So Solskjær is the interim manager. Quite a logical move really.

Ciao,
Werner
RED DEVIL
2018-12-19 20:13:36 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:32:44 +0100, anders t
Post by anders t
Just sayin'.
Thank you God!



The RED DEVIL
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