Discussion:
What crime? "desecration"?
(too old to reply)
agnon
2009-04-05 23:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Ann dies, and is buried in an English churchyard.

Bob visits the grave several weeks afterwards. He looks to see that no-
one is around. He then urinates on the grave. (Perhaps on the gravestone
too.)

There is no racial or sexual motivation for the crime.

Maybe he doesn't stand and pee, maybe he takes a bottle of pee with him.



What crime has Bob committed, if any?
What are the penalties for those crimes?
Any recent (past 5 years) news reports?
Ishtar
2009-04-06 00:44:32 UTC
Permalink
The location is of no relevance.

It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
t***@aol.com
2009-04-06 00:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
Only if it is a Christian church or burial place.

If it was Muslim, it would also be a hate crime.

Svenne
Mr X
2009-04-06 11:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
Only if it is a Christian church or burial place.
If it was Muslim, it would also be a hate crime.
Not if it was a Muslim doing the pissing.
Svenne
2009-04-06 14:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr X
Post by t***@aol.com
If it was Muslim, it would also be a hate crime.
Not if it was a Muslim doing the pissing.
Not even if the Muslim was pissing in a Christian churchyard.

Svenne
Mr X
2009-04-06 15:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Svenne
Post by Mr X
Post by t***@aol.com
If it was Muslim, it would also be a hate crime.
Not if it was a Muslim doing the pissing.
Not even if the Muslim was pissing in a Christian churchyard.
Depends on his motivations. If he was pissing on the grave of an enemy I
don't see why it would be hate crime - same the other way round. It if was
mindless pissing on any old grave then it might well be.
peterwn
2009-04-06 02:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
Disrespectful treatment of human remains. Violation of cemetary
bylaws. Trespass - the implied licence to be there ceases when
commencing the act (Robson v Hallett sort of refers).
Gaz
2009-04-06 14:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not uncommon
for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside miles from
anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a tree, and urinate
at the same time as a police car just happens to pull up investigating a
parked car, would i have a defence??

Gaz
Mr X
2009-04-06 14:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not uncommon
for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside miles from
anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a tree, and urinate
at the same time as a police car just happens to pull up investigating a
parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that. I dad has a medical condition that causes him to pee a
lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he needed to
go and there were no public loos close by.
Svenne
2009-04-06 15:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr X
I've wondered that. I dad has a medical condition that causes him to pee a
lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he needed to
go and there were no public loos close by.
The Magna Carta stipulates that if you need a pee and there is nowhere
to go, a policeman has a duty to take off his helmet and hold it out
for you to pee in.

Svenne
Mr X
2009-04-06 15:49:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Svenne
Post by Mr X
I've wondered that. I dad has a medical condition that causes him to pee a
lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he needed to
go and there were no public loos close by.
The Magna Carta stipulates that if you need a pee and there is nowhere
to go, a policeman has a duty to take off his helmet and hold it out
for you to pee in.
It should be his mouth. Oh wait they only talk shit.
Ishtar
2009-04-06 22:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not uncommon
for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside miles from
anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a tree, and urinate
at the same time as a police car just happens to pull up investigating a
parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that.  I dad has a medical condition that causes him to pee a
lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he needed to
go and there were no public loos close by.
------------

Well I guess the cops would expect you to have one of these medical
appliances, a catether attached to your penis or vulva with a tube
leading to a container strapped to your inside leg to collect your
piss, which you empty in a properly concealed location when it is
convenient.
agnon
2009-04-06 23:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ishtar
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public
place or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not
uncommon for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside
miles from anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a
tree, and urinate at the same time as a police car just happens to
pull up investigating a parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that.  I dad has a medical condition that causes him to
pee a lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he
needed to go and there were no public loos close by.
------------
Well I guess the cops would expect you to have one of these medical
appliances, a catether attached to your penis or vulva with a tube
leading to a container strapped to your inside leg to collect your piss,
which you empty in a properly concealed location when it is convenient.
I kind of hope that they would see a difference between a driver in a
reasonably remote location, without many people around, having a pee
against a bush and a drunk youth peeing on a shop door in full view of
people.

maybe I'm just optimistic.
Ishtar
2009-04-06 23:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by agnon
Post by Ishtar
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public
place or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not
uncommon for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside
miles from anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a
tree, and urinate at the same time as a police car just happens to
pull up investigating a parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that.  I dad has a medical condition that causes him to
pee a lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he
needed to go and there were no public loos close by.
------------
Well I guess the cops would expect you to have one of these medical
appliances, a catether attached to your penis or vulva with a tube
leading to a container strapped to your inside leg to collect your piss,
which you empty in a properly concealed location when it is convenient.
I kind of hope that they would see a difference between a driver in a
reasonably remote location, without many people around, having a pee
against a bush and a drunk youth peeing on a shop door in full view of
people.
maybe I'm just optimistic.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PC is all about cowardice and *soft targets*

----
PC - a god that failed:

----
Bill Lind on PC:

Svenne
2009-04-07 06:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by agnon
I kind of hope that they would see a difference between a driver in a
reasonably remote location, without many people around, having a pee
against a bush and a drunk youth peeing on a shop door in full view of
people.
maybe I'm just optimistic.
And naive

Svenne
Mr X
2009-04-07 14:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by agnon
Post by Ishtar
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public
place or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not
uncommon for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside
miles from anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a
tree, and urinate at the same time as a police car just happens to
pull up investigating a parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that. I dad has a medical condition that causes him to
pee a lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he
needed to go and there were no public loos close by.
------------
Well I guess the cops would expect you to have one of these medical
appliances, a catether attached to your penis or vulva with a tube
leading to a container strapped to your inside leg to collect your piss,
which you empty in a properly concealed location when it is convenient.
I kind of hope that they would see a difference between a driver in a
reasonably remote location, without many people around, having a pee
against a bush and a drunk youth peeing on a shop door in full view of
people.
maybe I'm just optimistic.
What's a drunk youth meant to do when he needs a piss?
Cynic
2009-04-07 15:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr X
What's a drunk youth meant to do when he needs a piss?
Go to a place where it is not likely to cause offence either during
the act itself or due to the staining and/or smell.

Even in a city there is usually some such place within a reasonable
walking distance. Preferably somewhere with bare earth, grass or
shrubbery so long as it is not used so often that a smell builds up.
--
Cynic
Mr X
2009-04-07 18:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cynic
Post by Mr X
What's a drunk youth meant to do when he needs a piss?
Go to a place where it is not likely to cause offence either during
the act itself or due to the staining and/or smell.
Even in a city there is usually some such place within a reasonable
walking distance. Preferably somewhere with bare earth, grass or
shrubbery so long as it is not used so often that a smell builds up.
Would that stop the Police harassing him?
agnon
2009-04-07 22:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr X
Post by Mr X
What's a drunk youth meant to do when he needs a piss?
Go to a place where it is not likely to cause offence either during the
act itself or due to the staining and/or smell.
Even in a city there is usually some such place within a reasonable
walking distance. Preferably somewhere with bare earth, grass or
shrubbery so long as it is not used so often that a smell builds up.
Would that stop the Police harassing him?
maybe not, but he'd be in a better position to argue than if he'd pissed
in a shop letterbox.
Cynic
2009-04-08 16:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr X
Post by Cynic
Post by Mr X
What's a drunk youth meant to do when he needs a piss?
Go to a place where it is not likely to cause offence either during
the act itself or due to the staining and/or smell.
Even in a city there is usually some such place within a reasonable
walking distance. Preferably somewhere with bare earth, grass or
shrubbery so long as it is not used so often that a smell builds up.
Would that stop the Police harassing him?
Nope. But that has nothing to do with what the youth *should* do.
(It applies to people of any age, not only youths).
--
Cynic
lmnw43771
2009-04-07 22:58:18 UTC
Permalink
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk:80/north-east-news/todays-evening-chronicle/2009/04/07/csa-orders-dad-to-cough-up-3p-or-face-the-bailiffs-72703-23329762/
Post by Gaz
Post by Ishtar
The location is of no relevance.
It's covered by the usual law relating to urinating in a public place
or in view of a public place.
What kind of excuse could one use to avoid prosecution? It is not uncommon
for me to be caught short in the middle of the countryside miles from
anywhere, if i was to pull over and hide myself behind a tree, and urinate
at the same time as a police car just happens to pull up investigating a
parked car, would i have a defence??
I've wondered that. I dad has a medical condition that causes him to pee a
lot (diabetes insipidus) and also wonder what would happen if he needed to
go and there were no public loos close by.
------------

Well I guess the cops would expect you to have one of these medical
appliances, a catether attached to your penis or vulva with a tube
leading to a container strapped to your inside leg to collect your
piss, which you empty in a properly concealed location when it is
convenient.
Paul Hyett
2009-04-07 06:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by agnon
Ann dies, and is buried in an English churchyard.
Bob visits the grave several weeks afterwards. He looks to see that no-
one is around. He then urinates on the grave. (Perhaps on the gravestone
too.)
There is no racial or sexual motivation for the crime.
Maybe he doesn't stand and pee, maybe he takes a bottle of pee with him.
What crime has Bob committed, if any?
What are the penalties for those crimes?
Any recent (past 5 years) news reports?
When Thatcher finally kicks it, the answer to this might become much
more relevant... :p
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Elmo
2009-04-07 12:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Hyett
Post by agnon
Ann dies, and is buried in an English churchyard.
Bob visits the grave several weeks afterwards. He looks to see that no-
one is around. He then urinates on the grave. (Perhaps on the gravestone
too.)
There is no racial or sexual motivation for the crime.
Maybe he doesn't stand and pee, maybe he takes a bottle of pee with him.
What crime has Bob committed, if any?
What are the penalties for those crimes?
Any recent (past 5 years) news reports?
When Thatcher finally kicks it, the answer to this might become much
more relevant... :p
There was a recent local case of a woman being convicted of insulting
behaviour after being caught pissing in a cemetry while squatting
behind a headstone. Happened in the last 18 months but unfortunately I
can't find the reports of the court case
Ishtar
2009-04-27 02:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo
Post by Paul Hyett
When Thatcher finally kicks it, the answer to this might become much
more relevant... :p
There was a recent local case of a woman being convicted of insulting
behaviour after being caught pissing in a cemetry while squatting
behind a headstone. Happened in the last 18 months but unfortunately I
can't find the reports of the court case
---------------------------

Do you mean this?
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-184222939.html

===
Forget about Margaret Thatcher.

Think about what will happen after Gill Langley dies.

Special Care
2009-04-10 17:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by agnon
Ann dies, and is buried in an English churchyard.
Bob visits thegraveseveral weeks afterwards.  He looks to see that no-
one is around. He then urinates on thegrave.  (Perhaps on the gravestone
too.)
There is no racial or sexual motivation for the crime.
Maybe he doesn't stand and pee, maybe he takes a bottle of pee with him.
What crime has Bob committed, if any?
What are the penalties for those crimes?
Any recent (past 5 years) news reports?
===============================

You can do it quite legally, by proxy:
-----------------------------------------------------------
An old man and old woman had been married for about 52 years when one
day the old woman died. The entire family showed up to the funeral.

Every day after the funeral the old man would show up at the grave
with his dog and spend a few minutes out there. About two months later
the vicar saw the old man out there with his dog and decided to go
talk to the old man.

"Hello there. You know, we see you come out here every day to visit
your wife's grave and we think that so sweet. We were all wondering if
the dog was special to your wife since you always bring her out here
with you."

"No, actually, Reverend, I bring the dog out here to piss on the old
bat's grave. I'd do it myself, but I'd get arrested for indecent
exposure!"
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