Discussion:
Walk Towards The Light...
(too old to reply)
Martyn W
2006-02-22 09:31:33 UTC
Permalink
When that sad day comes that Ruddock is promoted to glory, ready to
coach a heavenly team, I imagine that Carwyn James will be waiting with
a friendly handshake and a word of symapathetic encouragement.
They will be able to sit, sipping nectar, and shake their heads at the
folly of a WRU who think that god sits on their right hand.
For myself I will be finding it difficult indeed to bring myself to
watch Wales in the immediate future.
Since Mike Ruddock coached Swansea, I have been promoting him as a
potential National Coach. Under Ruddock, Swansea played some sublime
attacking rugby, but with a steel that was missing from the fancy
frippery coming from the likes of Llanelli. When Hansen's number was
up, I went around telling everyone I could that Ruddock should be the
man and when he was appointed, I knew he would build on the firm
foundations laid by Hansen and add some forward adventure to Wales's
undoubted qualities in the backline.

In my view, that is why we won a Grand Slam in 2005 - because our
forwards were able to front up and move the ball quickly. No other team
worked with the ball the way Wales moved it amongst the forwards - it
was like facing fifteen backs. This IMO, was Ruddock's influence.

Now, instead of Ruddock, we have Scott Johnson, who is a backs coach
and David Young, who favours the old fashioned - dare I say "England
style" of forward play. This is a style Wales can't hope to compete
with - England and Ireland are both much better at it than Wales.

Now, it takes a special kind of forward to carry out this strategy and
unfortunately, Wales are lacking key elements - Ryan Jones and Brent
Cockbain due to injury and Gethin Jenkins' lack of fitness. The other
three players who are essential to the style of play - Martyn Williams,
Robert Sidoli and Michael Owen can't carry it out on their own, and I'm
not sure Duncan Jones, Ian Gough and Colin Charvis have the skill set
to substitute adequately - although Rhys Thomas appears to be getting
there. So, perhaps temporarily, Wales have to revert to old style rugby
- at least that's what we appear to be doing anyway - certainly against
England and Scotland, we played a much more traditional style, one that
ill suits us in my view. So maybe Dai Young, who is more expert in the
grunt and grind style of forward play will not be such a bad prospect
in the short term anyway.

One thing I would caution; we should not throw out the adventurous
style of forward play which Hansen and Ruddock developed. It served
Wales well and is now serving New Zealand, but even more so. We will
never be in the same class as England or France when it comes to big,
powerful packs who bludgeon the opposition, so there's no point in
trying to play like them except when needs must. Our path lies down the
NZ route. It's a long path, one that will take us quite some time and
quite a lot of investment in player development to complete. But it IS
achievable.

Oddly, one of the things that gives me hope that Wales are on the right
path is an email I got from David Pickering about Wales's financial
achievments over the last 18 months. He tells me that our debt of £70
million has been reduced by no less than £30 million and the WRU has
had record turnover figures. Another two or three years and the Union
could be in surplus, and in a position to invest upwards of twenty
million a year EXTRA in rugby. This is a stunning amount of money for a
small country like Wales, and potentially puts us on a similar footing,
in terms of investment as New Zealand, and in per capita terms, way
ahead of England or France.

The future is bright, and it's Scarlet.
Brad Anton
2006-02-22 11:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martyn W
The future is bright, and it's Scarlet.
Your captain's out with a crocked neck artery that makes him feel like he could have died, the
coach that led you to a momentous Grand Slam victory last year has resigned under
'yet-to-be-really-explained' circumstances at a crucial point in the Welsh season (not only in the
6N but also in the grand scheme of the RWC knockout tourney next year) AND you only owe $40 million
squids.
This is surely all great news and every reason to be feeling optimistic about the future - but just
imagine if there were also another re-shuffle of your provincial team system, a few more league
scouts hanging around west of the Severn, and Vernon Pugh was resurrected, things would really be
looking up for Welsh rugby.
You make Pollyanna look like Nostradamus and *our company would like to hire you

Brad

*Please disregard if your original post was sent in 'irony-mode'
Martyn W
2006-02-22 11:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
Post by Martyn W
The future is bright, and it's Scarlet.
Your captain's out with a crocked neck artery that makes him feel like he could have died, the
coach that led you to a momentous Grand Slam victory last year has resigned under
'yet-to-be-really-explained' circumstances at a crucial point in the Welsh season (not only in the
6N but also in the grand scheme of the RWC knockout tourney next year) AND you only owe $40 million
squids.
This is surely all great news and every reason to be feeling optimistic about the future - but just
imagine if there were also another re-shuffle of your provincial team system, a few more league
scouts hanging around west of the Severn, and Vernon Pugh was resurrected, things would really be
looking up for Welsh rugby.
You make Pollyanna look like Nostradamus and *our company would like to hire you
Brad
*Please disregard if your original post was sent in 'irony-mode'
I take your point, but 40 million dollar squids is better than 70
million. Given that the reduction has happened over 18 months, then you
have to assume that 20 million a year extra is going to be released in
a couple of years. Then we will also have a mortgage free Millstone
Stadium as an asset, the income from which will be entirely
unencumbered. This represents an investment opportunity the like of
which Wales has never before experienced. As long as we don't go back
to the dark days of blazer wearing leeches lining their pockets at the
expense of the union, then we'll be on a sound financial footing for
the foreseeable future. Hats off to Mr Moffatt.

The other misfortunes aren't insurmountable in the long term, but look
out NZ, we're coming to get your coaches and we have a very big cheque
book. It'll make your investment in the PI look like pocket money.
Brad Anton
2006-02-22 11:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martyn W
The other misfortunes aren't insurmountable in the long term, but look
out NZ, we're coming to get your coaches and we have a very big cheque
book. It'll make your investment in the PI look like pocket money.
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
Martyn W
2006-02-22 12:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
Post by Martyn W
The other misfortunes aren't insurmountable in the long term, but look
out NZ, we're coming to get your coaches and we have a very big cheque
book. It'll make your investment in the PI look like pocket money.
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
We did quite well out of them too, and probably sent them back better
coaches than when they arrived. Wales have a long road to follow, but
we've taken the first few steps. Naturally, there will be setbacks, but
the direction is the right one.
PDA
2006-02-24 21:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to
our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
LOL

Henry is a loser who made a pigs ear of beating the aussies in 2001.

You're right about one thing though. The 6N as the premier annual tournament
and the northern hemisphere is a great place for crap southern hemiesphere
coaches and referees to learn how the game is played.
Martyn W
2006-02-24 22:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by PDA
Post by Brad Anton
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to
our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
LOL
Henry is a loser who made a pigs ear of beating the aussies in 2001.
You're right about one thing though. The 6N as the premier annual tournament
and the northern hemisphere is a great place for crap southern hemiesphere
coaches and referees to learn how the game is played.
Henry is a loser?
Dominic
2006-02-25 00:37:33 UTC
Permalink
yeah I think so.

Brad's description of him and Hansen is spot on - "In light of the
Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to our coaches".

Henry spent several years at Wales, never had any success followed by
Hansen who also had no success and in between, Henry made a pigs ear on
the lions tour in 2001 when we really should have won.

Then he goes home, followed rapidly by Hansen (do you really believe
the stories about family commitments after the last week or so?) and as
if by magic, Ruddock coaches Wales to a grand slam ...

The hard work behind the scenes of the grand slam was done by the
people before lewis and pickering - I've forgotten their names. I don't
accept this rubbish that Henry and Hansen laid the foundations.

e.g. What foundations did Williams lay with Scotland?

Get rid of the man and all of a sudden, Scotland play alot better. All
that Frank Hadden has done is to be a normal coach.

Going hunting for SH coaches is a big mistake because they are losers.
We had all that crap about how good the super 12 was and now the
aussies can't produce props who can compete with any premiership team.

SH referees are also crap although they've fortunately started to get
better. When was Andre Watson's last international match?

The world cup final would be my guess ...
rick boyd
2006-02-25 01:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Henry spent several years at Wales, never had any success followed by
Hansen who also had no success
You can lead an idiot to water, but you can't make him drink.

This is why the Welsh called him the Great Redeemer, is it Duminic?
Post by Dominic
and in between, Henry made a pigs ear on
the lions tour in 2001 when we really should have won.
You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's arse, Duminic. If the bunch
of preening, prancing prima donnas in the Lions, who spent more time
whinging about how Henry wasn't pampering them enough, aren't up to the
task, how is it the coach's fault? You will notice that Henry was
involved in another Lions tour more recently, one that the Lions lost
3-0, and in fact never looked like getting close. Can you spot the
difference with your giant brain? Hint: this time Henry made a silk
purse out of a rhinoceros.
-- rick boyd
Dominic
2006-02-25 08:58:29 UTC
Permalink
They can call him anything they like. They were never anywhere near a
Grand Slam unlike Ruddock. The facts speak for themselves. Under
Henry's reign, England and France were the only teams capable of
winning the GS.

In 2001, England were playing fantastic rugby and would have won the
grand slam had it not been for foot and mouth and the lions tour to
Australia should also have been won. The lions were 1-0 and leading in
the second test when he made some substitutions and it all went
pearshaped.

Everyone knew that GH was the wrong man for the job in 2001 and it
should have gone to SCW.
Dave L
2006-02-25 12:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
In 2001, England were playing fantastic rugby and would have won the
grand slam had it not been for foot and mouth and the lions tour to
Australia should also have been won. The lions were 1-0 and leading in
the second test when he made some substitutions and it all went
pearshaped.
Richard Hill getting injured and JW throwing the ball for Roff to score
were the main turning points

Dave
rick boyd
2006-02-25 14:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
They can call him anything they like. They were never anywhere near a
Grand Slam unlike Ruddock. The facts speak for themselves. Under
Henry's reign, England and France were the only teams capable of
winning the GS.
And the coach of England was one Sir Clive of Knob End. Who didn't even
win one Lions test, so by your logic he is an even crapper coach than Henry.
Post by Dominic
In 2001, England were playing fantastic rugby and would have won the
grand slam had it not been for foot and mouth and the lions tour to
Australia should also have been won. The lions were 1-0 and leading in
the second test when he made some substitutions and it all went
pearshaped.
Everyone knew that GH was the wrong man for the job in 2001 and it
should have gone to SCW.
Oh absolutely. As we can see from his victorious sweep through New
Zealand last year.

-- rick boyd
Dominic
2006-02-25 15:41:21 UTC
Permalink
"And the coach of England was one Sir Clive of Knob End. Who didn't
even
win one Lions test, so by your logic he is an even crapper coach than
Henry".

Your logic is faulty here. Its easy to say things with hindsight of
course, but there were plenty of people who predicted that SCW's
management style would not suit the lions because his large specialist
coaching organisation takes too much time to develop a team and time is
something a lions tour does not have.

The other point is the small matter of the Webb Ellis Trophy. I'm sure
you understand the point here.
Post by Dominic
Everyone knew that GH was the wrong man for the job in 2001 and it
should have gone to SCW.
Oh absolutely. As we can see from his victorious sweep through New
Zealand last year.
Actually yes. There were plenty of people in 2001 who thought SCW
should have been the lions coach.
rick boyd
2006-02-26 00:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Your logic is faulty here. Its easy to say things with hindsight of
course, but there were plenty of people who predicted that SCW's
management style would not suit the lions because his large specialist
coaching organisation takes too much time to develop a team and time is
something a lions tour does not have.
You too have the benefit of hindsight in these cases, great thinker
Duminic. But all you really want to do is find reasons to praise an
English coach and cirticise a New Zealand coach, when all the evidence
is against your agument.
Post by Dominic
The other point is the small matter of the Webb Ellis Trophy. I'm sure
you understand the point here.
Indeed I do. Sir Clive managed a win in a knockout tournament, had one
good year in what, seven or eight, with dismal failures to either side.
He's a hell of a coach all right.
Post by Dominic
Actually yes. There were plenty of people in 2001 who thought SCW
should have been the lions coach.
Brilliant! He could have lost that series 3-0 as well.

-- rick boyd
oob
2006-02-26 01:47:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Actually yes. There were plenty of people in 2001 who thought SCW
should have been the lions coach.
All of them English, happy he got the Lions '05 and happy that he
selected an inordinate number of English players.

..and all of whom are eating their words now, after SCWs Lions were so
thoroughly obliterated by the ABs.

Henry's '01 Lions were unlucky. Unlucky that they had English players in
the squad such as Healy and Dawson who did everything that they
possibly could to sew disharmony in the squad and derail the campaign.

That Henry's '01 Lions went so close despite the best efforts of the
English contingent is a testament to him, the rest of the management
team and the Celtic players in the squad.
GHFAN
2006-02-25 01:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Henry gave Wales back something they'd be missing for
years.........PRIDE. He then called it quits after realizing that the
tall poppy syndrome was flaring up and he didn't have the athletes
comiung through. Mr. Hansen carried on and gave his all while Mr.
Ruddock took over what Mr. Henry and Mr. Hansen had set in place. Let's
see what the others can do.

Remember, it's not about those who can play rugby, it's about athletes
who can play rugby.
Martyn W
2006-02-25 13:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
yeah I think so.
Brad's description of him and Hansen is spot on - "In light of the
Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to our coaches".
Henry spent several years at Wales, never had any success followed by
Hansen who also had no success and in between, Henry made a pigs ear on
the lions tour in 2001 when we really should have won.
Then he goes home, followed rapidly by Hansen (do you really believe
the stories about family commitments after the last week or so?) and as
if by magic, Ruddock coaches Wales to a grand slam ...
The hard work behind the scenes of the grand slam was done by the
people before lewis and pickering - I've forgotten their names. I don't
accept this rubbish that Henry and Hansen laid the foundations.
e.g. What foundations did Williams lay with Scotland?
Get rid of the man and all of a sudden, Scotland play alot better. All
that Frank Hadden has done is to be a normal coach.
Going hunting for SH coaches is a big mistake because they are losers.
We had all that crap about how good the super 12 was and now the
aussies can't produce props who can compete with any premiership team.
SH referees are also crap although they've fortunately started to get
better. When was Andre Watson's last international match?
The world cup final would be my guess ...
Henry:
Turned Wales around from a country still playing the amateur game.
Put in a a whole series of reforms design to drag the country into
present.
10 wins on the trot.
A first ever series win in Argentina.
Henry did well.
Sean Byrne
2006-02-27 09:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
yeah I think so.
Brad's description of him and Hansen is spot on - "In light of the
Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to our coaches".
Henry spent several years at Wales, never had any success
You really have no idea do you?

Henry won ten on the trot with a team that had received a record pasting
at the hands of South Africa.

Later,
Sean
Greig Blanchett
2006-02-25 00:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martyn W
Post by PDA
Post by Brad Anton
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to
our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
LOL
Henry is a loser who made a pigs ear of beating the aussies in 2001.
You're right about one thing though. The 6N as the premier annual tournament
and the northern hemisphere is a great place for crap southern hemiesphere
coaches and referees to learn how the game is played.
Henry is a loser?
I'd hate to hear how he describes SCW.

Who am I kidding? I'd LOVE to hear how he describes SCW.

--
greig
oob
2006-02-25 01:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by PDA
You're right about one thing though. The 6N as the premier annual tournament
and the northern hemisphere is a great place for crap southern hemiesphere
coaches and referees to learn how the game is played.
Thanks for the lessons;

P W D L %Wins
NZ v England 28 21 1 6 75.00
NZ v France 41 30 1 10 73.17
NZ v Ireland 18 17 1 0 94.44
NZ v Italy 8 8 0 0 100
NZ v Scotland 25 23 2 0 92.00
NZ v Wales 22 19 0 3 86.36
NZ v BI Lions 34 26 2 6 76.47
NZ v Anglo-Welsh 3 2 0 1 66.67
NZ v Britain 1 1 0 0 100
--------------------------------------
NZ v 6N 180 147 7 26 81.67
--------------------------------------
Uncle Dave
2006-02-25 22:48:28 UTC
Permalink
oob wrote:

<snip>

Yes, yes, and your point presumably is that New Zealand are the finest
team to never win a real world cup?

UD
oob
2006-02-25 23:14:10 UTC
Permalink
<unsnip>
Post by oob
P W D L %Wins
NZ v England 28 21 1 6 75.00
NZ v France 41 30 1 10 73.17
NZ v Ireland 18 17 1 0 94.44
NZ v Italy 8 8 0 0 100
NZ v Scotland 25 23 2 0 92.00
NZ v Wales 22 19 0 3 86.36
NZ v BI Lions 34 26 2 6 76.47
NZ v Anglo-Welsh 3 2 0 1 66.67
NZ v Britain 1 1 0 0 100
--------------------------------------
NZ v 6N 180 147 7 26 81.67
--------------------------------------
Yes, yes, and your point presumably is that New Zealand are the finest
team to never win a real world cup?
Your envy is palpable. It pleases me.
Uncle Dave
2006-02-26 15:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by oob
Your envy is palpable. It pleases me.
Good Lord man, have you actually read a word I've written during your
time here?! Why on earth should anyone envy another team's record -
wtf woul dbe the point of that?!

UD
rick boyd
2006-02-26 22:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Dave
Post by oob
Your envy is palpable. It pleases me.
Good Lord man, have you actually read a word I've written during your
time here?! Why on earth should anyone envy another team's record -
wtf woul dbe the point of that?!
Patricularly when that team is New Zealand, eh Dave?

-- rick boyd
rick boyd
2006-02-26 00:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Dave
<snip>
Yes, yes, and your point presumably is that New Zealand are the finest
team to never win a real world cup?
UD
Hey Dave, how's your domination of international rugby this morning?

-- rick boyd
Uncle Dave
2006-02-26 15:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by rick boyd
Post by Uncle Dave
<snip>
Yes, yes, and your point presumably is that New Zealand are the finest
team to never win a real world cup?
UD
Hey Dave, how's your domination of international rugby this morning?
Still alive and kicking.

UD
rick boyd
2006-02-26 22:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Dave
Post by rick boyd
Post by Uncle Dave
<snip>
Yes, yes, and your point presumably is that New Zealand are the finest
team to never win a real world cup?
UD
Hey Dave, how's your domination of international rugby this morning?
Still alive and kicking.
I have to admire your optimism, Dave. You make Pollyanna look suicidal.

-- rick boyd
Brad Anton
2006-02-25 04:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
In light of the Hansen and Henry 'investment' I'd say you're welcome to
our coaches, just send'em
back when they're ready to work with real talent.
Brad
LOL
Henry is a loser who made a pigs ear of beating the aussies in 2001.
Henry wasn't playing as far as I can remember, he was put in charge of a bunch of blokes that
couldn't work with him for various reasons depending on who you listen to. Cut to 2005 and the same
bloke is in charge of a team that beats the Lions 3-0 and then goes on complete a Grand Slam. How
this fits your definition of 'loser' is beyond me unless you mean 'winner'.
What I meant in the above quoted post is; if, as result of spending time coaching in Wales, our
Kiwi coaches come back with the knowledge of how to coach a team (with the right qualities) to beat
all and sundry then I'm all for it. You guys foot the bill for this acquisition of coaching nouse
and NZ supplies the quality of players for them to work with upon their return. Then you have all
our cast-offs so you can maintain the 'greatest provincial tournament in the world'
Brad
Dominic
2006-02-25 09:20:44 UTC
Permalink
The fact remains that the 2001 tour was distinctly winnable whereas the
2005 tour wasn't. The problem with the lions even more so in the
professional era is creating a team in a few short weeks that can win a
test series away from home.

"What I meant in the above quoted post is; if, as result of spending
time coaching in Wales, our
Kiwi coaches come back with the knowledge of how to coach a team (with
the right qualities) to beat
all and sundry then I'm all for it".

Exactly.

I'll give credit to GH for that. The years he spent as coach of Wales
gave him an understanding of the importance of set-pieces such as scrum
and lineout and that having mobile forwards does not negate the need to
do the traditional tasks very well.

Frankly having learnt that lesson and then going back to NZ from Wales,
is anyone surprised that he starts winning games with NZ?

As for the Triple Crown that NZ won last autumn, the only serious game
was against England and your full strength team won by 4 points. Thats
hardly setting the world on fire. No-one denies that NZ have a good
team at the moment, but have they peaked too early?

"You guys foot the bill for this acquisition of coaching nouse and NZ
supplies the quality of players for them to work with upon their
return. Then you have all our cast-offs so you can maintain the
'greatest provincial tournament in the world'"

Thanks for making my point for me. We don't want your SH coaches thank
you. Henry and Hansen didn't achieve anything up here and Williams was
a disaster for Scotland.
Greig Blanchett
2006-02-25 10:26:47 UTC
Permalink
On 25 Feb 2006 01:20:44 -0800, "Dominic" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

[...]
Post by Dominic
I'll give credit to GH for that. The years he spent as coach of Wales
gave him an understanding of the importance of set-pieces such as scrum
and lineout and that having mobile forwards does not negate the need to
do the traditional tasks very well.
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
Frankly having learnt that lesson and then going back to NZ from Wales,
is anyone surprised that he starts winning games with NZ?
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
As for the Triple Crown that NZ won last autumn, the only serious game
was against England and your full strength team won by 4 points. Thats
hardly setting the world on fire. No-one denies that NZ have a good
team at the moment, but have they peaked too early?
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
"You guys foot the bill for this acquisition of coaching nouse and NZ
supplies the quality of players for them to work with upon their
return. Then you have all our cast-offs so you can maintain the
'greatest provincial tournament in the world'"
Thanks for making my point for me. We don't want your SH coaches thank
you. Henry and Hansen didn't achieve anything up here and Williams was
a disaster for Scotland.
You're a looney. Like, totally.

--
greig
PDA
2006-02-25 10:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greig Blanchett
You're a looney. Like, totally.
Oh thats a really intelligent contribution to the discussion.

Is it because I don't bow down and worship at the All Black altar?
rick boyd
2006-02-25 14:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by PDA
Post by Greig Blanchett
You're a looney. Like, totally.
Oh thats a really intelligent contribution to the discussion.
Is it because I don't bow down and worship at the All Black altar?
No, it's because you're an idiot who does not merit any more sensible
response.

And a looney.

-- rick boyd
Greig Blanchett
2006-02-25 18:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by PDA
Post by Greig Blanchett
You're a looney. Like, totally.
Oh thats a really intelligent contribution to the discussion.
Is it because I don't bow down and worship at the All Black altar?
No, silly. It's because you're a looney.

--
greig
The Green Phantom
2006-02-25 19:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by PDA
Post by Greig Blanchett
You're a looney. Like, totally.
Oh thats a really intelligent contribution to the discussion.
Is it because I don't bow down and worship at the All Black altar?
No, it's because you've never heard of Sheds.

regards

The Green Phantom
Brad Anton
2006-02-25 14:38:31 UTC
Permalink
"Greig Blanchett" <***@nzrfu.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
On 25 Feb 2006 01:20:44 -0800, "Dominic" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

[...]
Post by Dominic
I'll give credit to GH for that. The years he spent as coach of Wales
gave him an understanding of the importance of set-pieces such as scrum
and lineout and that having mobile forwards does not negate the need to
do the traditional tasks very well.
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
Frankly having learnt that lesson and then going back to NZ from Wales,
is anyone surprised that he starts winning games with NZ?
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
As for the Triple Crown that NZ won last autumn, the only serious game
was against England and your full strength team won by 4 points. Thats
hardly setting the world on fire. No-one denies that NZ have a good
team at the moment, but have they peaked too early?
You're a looney.
Post by Dominic
"You guys foot the bill for this acquisition of coaching nouse and NZ
supplies the quality of players for them to work with upon their
return. Then you have all our cast-offs so you can maintain the
'greatest provincial tournament in the world'"
Thanks for making my point for me. We don't want your SH coaches thank
you. Henry and Hansen didn't achieve anything up here and Williams was
a disaster for Scotland.
You're a looney. Like, totally.

--
greig

Why fucking bother Greig - the guy's a dipstick.
Brad
Andrew Muir
2006-02-25 11:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
I'll give credit to GH for that. The years he spent as coach of Wales
gave him an understanding of the importance of set-pieces such as scrum
and lineout and that having mobile forwards does not negate the need to
do the traditional tasks very well.
THis is nonsense, quite frankly. The Auckland NPC sides of 1992-97 (four
titles during that time) and the champion Blues sides of 1996-7, all of
which were coached by Henry, showed no lack of awareness as to how to use
the set piece properly or appropriately.
Post by Dominic
As for the Triple Crown that NZ won last autumn, the only serious game
was against England and your full strength team won by 4 points. Thats
hardly setting the world on fire. No-one denies that NZ have a good
team at the moment, but have they peaked too early?
More nonsense. Any All Black side without McCaw or Oliver as an option, and
using several newbies in either the starting 15 or coming on later (Masoe,
Tialata etc), cannot be called full strength. It was partially used as a
development tour, for goodness sakes. Bit hard to peak when half the point
of the tour is 'Introduction to AB Atmosphere 101'.

Andrew Muir
Dominic
2006-02-25 15:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
I'll give credit to GH for that. The years he spent as coach of Wales
gave him an understanding of the importance of set-pieces such as scrum
and lineout and that having mobile forwards does not negate the need to
do the traditional tasks very well.
THis is nonsense, quite frankly. The Auckland NPC sides of 1992-97
(four
titles during that time) and the champion Blues sides of 1996-7, all of

which were coached by Henry, showed no lack of awareness as to how to
use
the set piece properly or appropriately.

Ok Fine, I have no experience of how he managed before coming to Wales,
but the time he spent in Wales he achieved virtually nothing.
Post by Dominic
As for the Triple Crown that NZ won last autumn, the only serious game
was against England and your full strength team won by 4 points. Thats
hardly setting the world on fire. No-one denies that NZ have a good
team at the moment, but have they peaked too early?
More nonsense. Any All Black side without McCaw or Oliver as an
option, and
using several newbies in either the starting 15 or coming on later
(Masoe,
Tialata etc), cannot be called full strength. It was partially used as
a
development tour, for goodness sakes. Bit hard to peak when half the
point
of the tour is 'Introduction to AB Atmosphere 101'.

Fair point - forgotten about McCaw. It was just the way in which he
virtually changed all 15 players from one match to the next.
Brad Anton
2006-02-25 14:37:24 UTC
Permalink
"Dominic" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Brad - "You guys foot the bill for this acquisition of coaching nouse and NZ
supplies the quality of players for them to work with upon their
return. Then you have all our cast-offs so you can maintain the
'greatest provincial tournament in the world'"
Post by Dominic
Thanks for making my point for me. We don't want your SH coaches thank
you. Henry and Hansen didn't achieve anything up here and Williams was a
disaster for Scotland.
You're not very good at following an argument are you? Let me explain: If 2 coaches rock up in Wales
and turn out a relatviely good team then return to NZ and turn out a team that takes on the world
and wins, I want more of it. Do you understand?
Brad
Dominic
2006-02-25 15:32:44 UTC
Permalink
"You're not very good at following an argument are you? Let me explain:
If 2 coaches rock up in Wales
and turn out a relatviely good team then return to NZ and turn out a
team that takes on the world
and wins, I want more of it. Do you understand?"

Ok shall we observe a few facts?

What did Wales achieve with Henry and Hansen?

Answer: Nothing

What did Henry achieve with the lions in 2001?

Answer: Nothing
Brad Anton
2006-02-25 15:50:34 UTC
Permalink
"Dominic" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
"You're not very good at following an argument are you? Let me explain:
If 2 coaches rock up in Wales
and turn out a relatviely good team then return to NZ and turn out a
team that takes on the world
and wins, I want more of it. Do you understand?"
Post by Dominic
Ok shall we observe a few facts?
What did Wales achieve with Henry and Hansen?
Answer: Nothing
What did Henry achieve with the lions in 2001?
Answer: Nothing
Jesus Christ mate, I don't care about Wales - but if a little time spent with your mob means Kiwi
coaches come back to NZ with enough savvy to blat the panties off every other team in the world then
please - import away.
I also don't think the ultimate failure of a team can be laid wholesale at the feet of the coach.
If, by your argument, Henry is such a loser, how did the ABs win so much when he came home?
From your POV, if there's any blame to be placed, then it's at the feet of the group of people who
employed this 'loser' in the first place; namely the WRU.
Brad
Dominic
2006-02-25 22:01:21 UTC
Permalink
"Jesus Christ mate, I don't care about Wales - but if a little time
spent with your mob means Kiwi
coaches come back to NZ with enough savvy to blat the panties off every
other team in the world then
please - import away.
I also don't think the ultimate failure of a team can be laid wholesale
at the feet of the coach.
If, by your argument, Henry is such a loser, how did the ABs win so
much when he came home?
Post by Brad Anton
From your POV, if there's any blame to be placed, then it's at the feet
of the group of people who
employed this 'loser' in the first place; namely the WRU"

Thank you - I couldn't have said it any better.

:o)
oob
2006-02-25 22:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
"Jesus Christ mate, I don't care about Wales - but if a little time
spent with your mob means Kiwi
coaches come back to NZ with enough savvy to blat the panties off every
other team in the world then
please - import away.
I also don't think the ultimate failure of a team can be laid wholesale
at the feet of the coach.
If, by your argument, Henry is such a loser, how did the ABs win so much when he came home?
Post by Brad Anton
From your POV, if there's any blame to be placed, then it's at the feet
of the group of people who
employed this 'loser' in the first place; namely the WRU"
Thank you - I couldn't have said it any better.
:o)
Learn how to quote Dominic or fuck off.
rick boyd
2006-02-26 01:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Thank you - I couldn't have said it any better.
That much is certainly true.

-- rick boyd
Martyn W
2006-02-25 19:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
If 2 coaches rock up in Wales
and turn out a relatviely good team then return to NZ and turn out a
team that takes on the world
and wins, I want more of it. Do you understand?"
Ok shall we observe a few facts?
What did Wales achieve with Henry and Hansen?
Answer: Nothing
What did Henry achieve with the lions in 2001?
Answer: Nothing
Wales went a long way under Henry - anyone who tries to deny that it a
complete looney. Henry laid the foundations for last year's Grand Slam
- something that's won by hard work - not just turning up. Hansen
turned Wales into an exciting attacking team. We can now turn to the
strength in depth issue and start to develop decent replacements when
our first choices aren't available - something we admittedly don't have
right now. As for England - they need Arrogance Management Classes.
Dominic
2006-02-25 22:25:44 UTC
Permalink
"Wales went a long way under Henry - anyone who tries to deny that it a

complete looney".

What you mean he realised that he needed Professionally fit players for
the Professional era?

Well durr ...

"Henry laid the foundations for last year's Grand Slam
- something that's won by hard work - not just turning up. Hansen
turned Wales into an exciting attacking team. We can now turn to the
strength in depth issue and start to develop decent replacements when
our first choices aren't available - something we admittedly don't have

right now".

Thats your Welsh opinion. England never feared any of GH's teams.

"As for England - they need Arrogance Management Classes"

The classic celtic comment since time immemorial ...
Greig Blanchett
2006-02-25 22:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
"Wales went a long way under Henry - anyone who tries to deny that it a
complete looney".
What you mean he realised that he needed Professionally fit players for
the Professional era?
Well durr ...
"Henry laid the foundations for last year's Grand Slam
- something that's won by hard work - not just turning up. Hansen
turned Wales into an exciting attacking team. We can now turn to the
strength in depth issue and start to develop decent replacements when
our first choices aren't available - something we admittedly don't have
right now".
Thats your Welsh opinion. England never feared any of GH's teams.
"As for England - they need Arrogance Management Classes"
The classic celtic comment since time immemorial ...
Hey Dominic / PDA / whatever, you're not related to that other
nitwitted Healy are you? You know, big mouth, head up arse, hated
Henry - you seem to have a lot in common. Let me guess - you're a pom,
right? And all this fuss about Welsh coaches is just a troll to divert
comment away from the laughably inept wrecking crew in charge of the
English first XV at the moment?

--
greig
rick boyd
2006-02-26 01:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Thats your Welsh opinion. England never feared any of GH's teams.
They were stupid then, weren't they? They lost to a number of them.

-- rick boyd
Sean Byrne
2006-02-27 09:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominic
Thats your Welsh opinion. England never feared any of GH's teams.
And consequently lost to them at Wembley.

Later,
Sean

rick boyd
2006-02-26 01:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Anton
If 2 coaches rock up in Wales
and turn out a relatviely good team then return to NZ and turn out a
team that takes on the world
and wins, I want more of it. Do you understand?"
Ok shall we observe a few facts?
What did Wales achieve with Henry and Hansen?
Answer: Nothing
'Nothing' is a child's answer befitting someone of your intellectual
calibre. Do you have an actual statistics, little fellow?
Post by Brad Anton
What did Henry achieve with the lions in 2001?
Answer: Nothing
How about comparing the record of Lions tours to the antipodes. See how
Henry's outing fits in with the others.

But no, i suspect you would much rather stay safe and happy in your
delusional world of juvenile simplicity.

-- rick boyd
rick boyd
2006-02-22 11:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martyn W
The future is bright, and it's Scarlet.
That's the story Martyn, you keep the torch burning!

And in the short term, if you want a good deal on a hunting rifle with
an ex-SAS telsecopic sight, I believe Nick, our very own
thick-as-a-post-colinial boy, can point you in the right direction.

-- rick boyd
Martyn W
2006-02-22 11:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by rick boyd
Post by Martyn W
The future is bright, and it's Scarlet.
That's the story Martyn, you keep the torch burning!
The welcome in the hillsides?
Loading...