Wow. Spammer has guts to reply to Spam report with Spam. (And I better do not report this one).

[Luis]

Received: by user2.cybercity.dk (mbox dsl78643)
(with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Jan 5 04:52:13 2004)
X-From_: ***@admin.spamcop.net Sun Jan 4 08:06:17 2004
Return-Path: <***@admin.spamcop.net>
X-Original-To: ***@vip.cybercity.dk
Delivered-To: ***@vip.cybercity.dk
Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53])
by user1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46A074F8D5
for <***@vip.cybercity.dk>; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:06:17 +0100 (CET)
Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (vmx1.spamcop.net [206.14.107.113])
by cicero2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF5318F9BC
for <***@vip.cybercity.dk>; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:06:17 +0100 (CET)
Received: from unknown (HELO spamcop.net) (192.168.11.201)
by vmx1.spamcop.net with SMTP; 03 Jan 2004 23:06:15 -0800
X-SpamCop-Return-Path: <***@centrapoint.com>
Delivered-To: ***@sc-app1.verio.ironport.com
Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (sc-smtp1.verio.ironport.com
[192.168.11.200])
by sc-app1.verio.ironport.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E17F26B
for <***@reports.spamcop.net>; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:06:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 54-112.202-68.se.rr.com (68.202.112.54)
by vmx1.spamcop.net with SMTP; 03 Jan 2004 23:05:53 -0800
Received: from [206.130.82.117] by 54-112.202-68.se.rr.com with ESMTP id
<416305-47230>; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:01:34 +0400
Message-ID: <sl$-5a$1y-k6c0rojw-q9c$***@gc1em.h1yl.wzr>
From: "Florine Swartz" <***@centrapoint.com>
Reply-To: "Florine Swartz" <***@centrapoint.com>
To: <***@reports.spamcop.net>
Subject: I found this site that helped me payback my Xmas debt ykm
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 04 11:01:34 GMT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="5DB_7.D_E0_"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-PMFLAGS: 570950016 0 1 PMIEVMS5.CNM


--5DB_7.D_E0_
Content-Type: text/plain;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Are you a stay at home mom? Do you have 1-4hrs of extra time on your hand=
s a week?

Do you like to work with your computer. Are you on holidays? Are you unem=
ployed.

Are you bored with your current job? Are you looking to expore new moneym=
aking methods.

We've got an easy answer for you. Make money now. Whie you sit there, do=
ing nothing, producing nothing, hundreads of our members are earning $10-$=
130USD per hour working from home,using their computer.

Cliq below to find out how easy it is to make money with technology:
http://www2.2004surveys.com/cgi/click?a=3D330009&s=3D14&p=3D1&banner=3Dlap=
1
Cliq above...


No want to make money?
Cliq below
http://www.addsad.com/rm.html

--5DB_7.D_E0_--

[Cat]

Luis wrote:
<snip spam>

I don't understand why you ignored the "no spam posting" rule at
http://spamcop.net/forum.shtml and posted spam here anyway. Please don't
do that. The people who read and post here get enough spam of their own
without having to see yours in a place where they are promised a spam
free environment. If you need to post a copy of spam, please post it
only in spamcop.spam then refer to it here. Please cancel your original
post since spam does not belong in this newsgroup.

[Luis]

Post by Cat
<snip spam>
I don't understand why you ignored the "no spam posting" rule at
http://spamcop.net/forum.shtml and posted spam here anyway. Please don't
do that. The people who read and post here get enough spam of their own
without having to see yours in a place where they are promised a spam
free environment. If you need to post a copy of spam, please post it
only in spamcop.spam then refer to it here. Please cancel your original
post since spam does not belong in this newsgroup.

The rules say:
Quote on//
No spam. Please do not post copies of spam or other commercials except in
the spamcop.spam group specifically designated for it. SpamCop provides
"tracking URL"s for posting spam samples. Please use them.
Quote off\\

You don't get it.
How should I use "tracking URL"s for a message received from:

Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (vmx1.spamcop.net [206.14.107.113])

.... That contains spam? (And which was a reply to a spam report?) How can I
both declare my issue here and at the same time stick to the rules. Thank
You.

[Cat]

Post by Luis

Post by Cat
<snip spam>
I don't understand why you ignored the "no spam posting" rule at
http://spamcop.net/forum.shtml and posted spam here anyway.

<snip>

Post by Luis
Quote on//
No spam. Please do not post copies of spam or other commercials except in
the spamcop.spam group specifically designated for it. SpamCop provides
"tracking URL"s for posting spam samples. Please use them.
Quote off\\
You don't get it.

What is it you think that I don't get? I "get it" perfectly well. You
are the one who does not "get it." You posted spam here, despite the
fact that the posting rules are to post the spam only in the
spamcop.spamnewsgroup and refer to it here in the main newsgroup. Why is
it so hard for you to post the spam there then post the discussion here?

Post by Luis
Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (vmx1.spamcop.net [206.14.107.113])
.... That contains spam? (And which was a reply to a spam report?)

The tracking URL is the address of the page that comes up when you file
the spam report through SpamCop. The tracking URL is the page that shows
you details of where to send the SpamCop report. If you don't have one,
then there's no need to post it here, but that still doesn't make it ok
for you to post the spam here instead of in spamcop.spam where it
belongs.

Post by Luis
How can I
both declare my issue here and at the same time stick to the rules. Thank
You.

Did you not read my previous reply to you? Did you not read the "no spam
posting" rule from the forum page that you quoted above? What is so
difficult to follow those instructions and post the spam in spamcop.spam
where it belongs then post a discussion post about it in this newsgroup?

[Cat]

Post by Luis
How can I
both declare my issue here and at the same time stick to the rules. Thank
You.

I also suggested that you cancel your original spam post since it
doesn't belong here, but I see that you haven't done that yet. When you
post spam in the wrong newsgroup, that causes everyone else to have to
dig through a bunch of annoying spam posts looking for actual
discussion, and the people who read the newsgroup through the mailing
list also get more spam in their inbox thanks to you.

I also don't get why you think someone spammed you as result of sending
a spam report since you didn't post any actual request for help and only
posted the spam. Are you saying that you reported the spam directly to
the spammer, who spammed you in return? If that is so, then you should
be more careful about who receives spam complaints from you so that you
don't send the complaint directly to the spammer. Or maybe you're saying
that the ISP that received the complaint forwarded your complaint to the
spammer? If you had posted a clearly worded request for help while
posting the spam in spamcop.spam where it belongs, someone might be more
willing and able to help you. As it is, I don't see how your spam
posting here proves that you received spam as a direct result of a spam
complaint, but you did contribute more spam to everyone else's spam
load.

[Mike Vollmer]

Another control freak on the prowl... In a couple of of Cat's other posts
this evening he picks at at someone else's spelling and refers to another as
"particularly rude and snotty". Try looking in the mirror and improve your
own demeanor first.

[Cat]

Post by Mike Vollmer
Another control freak on the prowl...

You obviously weren't around when the newsgroups were first created and
Julian asked the regulars to help keep the newsgroup running smoothly

Post by Mike Vollmer
In a couple of of Cat's other posts
this evening he picks at at someone else's spelling and refers to another as
"particularly rude and snotty".

"Cat" is an obvious female name. Try getting it right next time.
Automatically assuming that someone using the name Cat is a "he" is
about as ridiculous as if someone were to assume you're female despite
your name being Mike. Since you mention a "he" though, I guess that
means you wouldn't be referring to me. You also should get your facts
straight since the "particularly rude and snotty" comment was directed
at the idiots running Comcast. Don't twist my words around. It only
makes you look pathetic. You're obviously just looking for some excuse
to flame me over stupid stuff.

Post by Mike Vollmer
Try looking in the mirror and improve your
own demeanor first.

My demeanor is just fine, no thanks to you. As for your own obnoxious
behavior when several people asked you to stop top posting, I hardly
think you're in any position to give someone else that sort of advice.
Oh, and when I do look in the mirror, I see a female, not the male
gender you so ignorantly tried to label me with at the beginning of your
little flame.

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

There's nothing obviously female about "Cat". Took me a long time to
figure out what gender you are.

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

There's nothing obviously female about "Cat". Took me a long time to
figure out what gender you are.

Strange. I automatically assumed Cat was female, as in Catherine, Kaitlin,
Cathy, Kate...

Of course, then there's Cat Stevens who comes along and muddies the
waters :)

[Cat]

Post by Godwin Stewart

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

There's nothing obviously female about "Cat". Took me a long time to
figure out what gender you are.

It must just be a language barrier thing then. In English, most people
are going to rightfully assume that someone calling herself "Cat" is
female, whether or not it is considered a masculine noun in other
languages. No self-respecting straight male would call himself just
plain "Cat." The only example of that, as mentioned below, was Cat
Stevens, but that was back in the 70s, and he changed his name since
then.

Post by Godwin Stewart
Strange. I automatically assumed Cat was female, as in Catherine, Kaitlin,
Cathy, Kate...

That's exactly why I wonder why a small few people in the newsgroup
still think I'm a male since Cat is short for other female names. In my
case, it's not short for my real name, but I use variations of nicknames
with "cat" or "kat" as part of a longer username in other places on the
internet since I like cats so much.

Post by Godwin Stewart
Of course, then there's Cat Stevens who comes along and muddies the
waters :)

Yes, and even he had the good sense to finally change his name to
something else much less feminine.

[John J. Burness]

------------------snip----------

Post by Cat

Post by Godwin Stewart
Of course, then there's Cat Stevens who comes along and muddies the
waters :)

Yes, and even he had the good sense to finally change his name to
something else much less feminine.

But Cat Stevens changed his name for Religious reasons (as he equally
would have done if he had been a Fred, Tom or a Larry), so that doesn't
count!!

Regards,
John

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Cat

Post by Godwin Stewart
Of course, then there's Cat Stevens who comes along and muddies the
waters :)

Yes, and even he had the good sense to finally change his name to
something else much less feminine.

He took on an Arabic name after converting to Islam: Yusuf Islam.

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by Cat

Post by Godwin Stewart

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

There's nothing obviously female about "Cat". Took me a long time
to figure out what gender you are.

It must just be a language barrier thing then. In English, most people
are going to rightfully assume that someone calling herself "Cat" is
female, whether or not it is considered a masculine noun in other
languages. No self-respecting straight male would call himself just
plain "Cat." The only example of that, as mentioned below, was Cat
Stevens, but that was back in the 70s, and he changed his name since
then.

If you think in the context of names, maybe (still not to me). But the
context here is one where many people use handles instead of names;
there is no way to tell whether "Cat" is an actual name or a handle.

Post by Cat

Post by Godwin Stewart
Strange. I automatically assumed Cat was female, as in Catherine,
Kaitlin, Cathy, Kate...

That's exactly why I wonder why a small few people in the newsgroup
still think I'm a male since Cat is short for other female names.

Now that this is explained to me, it is obvious (with hindsight, and
only if I'm thinking of "name" not "handle"). But you have to _know_
that "Cat" is short for a female name; if you don't...

[Cat]

Post by Marjolein Katsma
Now that this is explained to me, it is obvious (with hindsight, and
only if I'm thinking of "name" not "handle"). But you have to _know_
that "Cat" is short for a female name; if you don't...

Yeah, but name or nickname, most people know that "Cat" has an obvious
feminine touch. Outside of Cat Stevens, you just don't see men willing
to go by such a feminine nickname.

[Luis]

While I'm still amazed about the volume of both ON and OFF topic replies to
my original post, (Now it looks like I was holding a match to the edge of a
dry corn field), I must say that Ellen not only caught the central issue
(without complaining about my possible misposting), but also took the
appropriate and logical action. Kudos to Ellen.

Yes, I have both Cat-5, Cat-5e and Cat-6 in the house. Both male and female.
And both genders are supposed to work together. Let us call THIS one carried
"Ad absurdum".

Post by Cat

Post by Marjolein Katsma
Now that this is explained to me, it is obvious (with hindsight, and
only if I'm thinking of "name" not "handle"). But you have to _know_
that "Cat" is short for a female name; if you don't...

Yeah, but name or nickname, most people know that "Cat" has an obvious
feminine touch. Outside of Cat Stevens, you just don't see men willing
to go by such a feminine nickname.

[Robert Slade]

Post by Luis
While I'm still amazed about the volume of both ON and OFF topic replies to
my original post, (Now it looks like I was holding a match to the edge of a
dry corn field), I must say that Ellen not only caught the central issue
(without complaining about my possible misposting), but also took the
appropriate and logical action. Kudos to Ellen.
Yes, I have both Cat-5, Cat-5e and Cat-6 in the house. Both male and female.
And both genders are supposed to work together. Let us call THIS one carried
"Ad absurdum".

Post by Cat

Post by Marjolein Katsma
Now that this is explained to me, it is obvious (with hindsight, and
only if I'm thinking of "name" not "handle"). But you have to _know_
that "Cat" is short for a female name; if you don't...

Yeah, but name or nickname, most people know that "Cat" has an obvious
feminine touch. Outside of Cat Stevens, you just don't see men willing
to go by such a feminine nickname.

You will note that Ellen said that action had already been taken. This
was done before you posted. This was old news. If you had posted your
spam in .spam you would have seen several copies of exactly the same
spam in that group going back several days. This topic has also been
discussed in .help again several days ago.

Re the point regarding not posting spam in newsgroups other that .spam
this is so that users who are using modems etc do not have to pay for
downloading someone else's spam.

Rob

[Firewoman]

Post by Robert Slade
Re the point regarding not posting spam in newsgroups other that .spam
this is so that users who are using modems etc do not have to pay for
downloading someone else's spam.
Rob

So instead we get to download over 30 posts concerning the sex of a
nickname? Seems to be the same waste.

[Miss Betsy]

Post by Firewoman

Post by Robert Slade
Re the point regarding not posting spam in newsgroups other that .spam
this is so that users who are using modems etc do not have to pay for
downloading someone else's spam.
Rob

So instead we get to download over 30 posts concerning the sex of a
nickname? Seems to be the same waste.

Some one should have set followups to .social on about the 4th post.

Miss Betsy, an almost new internet user

[Don Wannit]

Post by Firewoman
So instead we get to download over 30 posts concerning the sex of a
nickname? Seems to be the same waste.

Fyr Cat, is that you?

[Cat]

Post by Don Wannit

Post by Firewoman
So instead we get to download over 30 posts concerning the sex of a
nickname? Seems to be the same waste.

Fyr Cat, is that you?

Huh?

[Don Wannit]

Post by Don Wannit
Fyr Cat, is that you?

Huh?

No, not you. Firewoman. If it's she, she'll know the reference.
If not, then not.

You're not she. (you might be *a* she, but you're not *that* she.

[Cat]

Post by Don Wannit
No, not you. Firewoman. If it's she, she'll know the reference.
If not, then not.
You're not she. (you might be *a* she, but you're not *that* she.

Ohhh, ok. Now that makes sense.

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by Cat
Yeah, but name or nickname, most people know that "Cat" has an obvious
feminine touch.

Only if those "most people" know other people named "Cat" or know it's
an abbreviation of a female name. There really is nothing "obvious"
there - only knowledge and experience.

I might as well say that "most people" will know that "Marjolein" is a
female name - but I won't because it just isn't true. It's true only for
those people who have experience with other people named that way, or a
a similar name, or who have some exposure to French. To everyone else,
it's just a toss up.

Or did you mean "most people in the US"?

As a nickname, all bets are off. People can use a "male" nickname to
hide their female identity and vice versa. I don't make any assumptions.

[Dick Cardy]

Post by Godwin Stewart
Of course, then there's Cat Stevens who comes along and muddies the
waters :)

Now I understand why he changed his name!

Dick

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

There's nothing obviously female about "Cat". Took me a long time to
figure out what gender you are.

[]

If memory serves,

"cat":

Italian: "il gatto"; masculine noun.

Spanish: "el gato"; masculine noun.

French: "le chat"; masculine noun.

There must be others (not German ("die Katze"). English, perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep truth
from this?). The above are just a few that come to mind. Dutch--I forget.
Marjolean(?).

Regards,

Robert

--
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm


NOTARY SOJAC
(Dizzy Gillespie, Prop.)

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by Robert Taylor
If memory serves,
Italian: "il gatto"; masculine noun.
Spanish: "el gato"; masculine noun.
French: "le chat"; masculine noun.
There must be others (not German ("die Katze"). English,
perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?). The above are just a few that come to mind.
Dutch--I forget. Marjolean(?).

Dutch: 'Kat'; not gender-specific (unless you refer to a specific animal
of which you know the gender). When you want to specifally indicate a
male cat, it's 'kater'; when that is used, 'kat' in that context (only)
is the femnale. Can also be "poes", more usual for a female than a male
cat, but strictly speaking also not gender-specific.

Of course, 'kat' is also the first three letters of my last name - no
semantic relationship though. But although I'm allergic to cats, I am
"cat people" and cats know it. :=)

[m***@spamcop.net]

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Robert Taylor
If memory serves,
Italian: "il gatto"; masculine noun.
Spanish: "el gato"; masculine noun.
French: "le chat"; masculine noun.
There must be others (not German ("die Katze"). English,
perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?). The above are just a few that come to mind.
Dutch--I forget. Marjolean(?).

Dutch: 'Kat'; not gender-specific (unless you refer to a specific animal
of which you know the gender). When you want to specifally indicate a
male cat, it's 'kater'; when that is used, 'kat' in that context (only)
is the femnale. Can also be "poes", more usual for a female than a male
cat, but strictly speaking also not gender-specific.
Of course, 'kat' is also the first three letters of my last name - no
semantic relationship though. But although I'm allergic to cats, I am
"cat people" and cats know it. :=)

Norwegian *katt* is masculine. We have words to specify if necessary,
like *kjette*, f and *hankatt* m. Like dutch poes we have *pus*, also m

helge

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by Robert Taylor
If memory serves,
Italian: "il gatto"; masculine noun.
Spanish: "el gato"; masculine noun.
French: "le chat"; masculine noun.
There must be others (not German ("die Katze"). English,
perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?). The above are just a few that come to mind.
Dutch--I forget. Marjolean(?).

Dutch: 'Kat'; not gender-specific (unless you refer to a specific animal
of which you know the gender). When you want to specifally indicate a
male cat, it's 'kater'; when that is used, 'kat' in that context (only)
is the femnale. Can also be "poes", more usual for a female than a male
cat, but strictly speaking also not gender-specific.
Of course, 'kat' is also the first three letters of my last name - no
semantic relationship though. But although I'm allergic to cats, I am
"cat people" and cats know it. :=)

In German, I believe the male cat (and, as in the Dutch, only the male) is
also "Kater".

I am not allergic to cats. Curiously (no pun) they have always seemed to
like me inordinately; never could figure that out. Dogs too, oddly.
Galvanic reactions? Who knows. ;) I've heard "poes", in NL. Also, in
Germany (Berlinisch?) something similar I think, that sounds like "Miesche",
or "Miesch" (never seen it written).

Best,

--
Robert
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm

23 skidoo foo (Dizzy Gillespie, Prop.)

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Robert Taylor
I've heard "poes", in NL.

That's probably where we get "puss", as in "puss in boots" or "pussy-cat"
from in English.

[SikaSpam]

Post by Godwin Stewart
That's probably where we get "puss", as in "puss in boots" or "pussy-cat"
from in English.

In the vernacular of a certain community in L.A. and in the Southern USA,
"cat" is a literal translation of "pussy" in a context that geeky
newsgroups would not normally evoke.

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by SikaSpam
In the vernacular of a certain community in L.A. and in the Southern
USA, "cat" is a literal translation of "pussy" in a context that geeky
newsgroups would not normally evoke.

<splorf!!/>

FYI and amusement, the same would apply to Dutch "poe" and its diminutive
"poesje".

And etymologically, of course, "poes' and "pussy" derive from the same
root.

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Marjolein Katsma

Post by SikaSpam
In the vernacular of a certain community in L.A. and in the Southern
USA, "cat" is a literal translation of "pussy" in a context that geeky
newsgroups would not normally evoke.

<splorf!!/>
FYI and amusement, the same would apply to Dutch "poe" and its diminutive
"poesje".
And etymologically, of course, "poes' and "pussy" derive from the same
root.

(If that's a pun, then your English is even better than I thought.)

Final footnote: For decades, (as most Americans probably still know) among
American jazz musicians, the word "cat" referred to any adult male, but
primarily to other jazz musicians (male). Thus: in the '30s and '40s, "hip
cat"; in the '50s and thereabouts, "cool cat"; both terms denoting a
person who was temperamentally, ethically, or musically (or all three)
deserving of great respect. During the '50s, a single woman was called a
"chick". Interesting juxtaposition.

Regards,

Robert

--
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm


NOTARY SOJAC
(Dizzy Gillespie, Prop.)

[Tom]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:08:22 -0500, "Robert Taylor"

Post by Robert Taylor
Final footnote: For decades, (as most Americans probably still know) among
American jazz musicians, the word "cat" referred to any adult male, but
primarily to other jazz musicians (male). Thus: in the '30s and '40s, "hip
cat"; in the '50s and thereabouts, "cool cat"; both terms denoting a
person who was temperamentally, ethically, or musically (or all three)
deserving of great respect. During the '50s, a single woman was called a
"chick". Interesting juxtaposition.

Boy, has this wandered off topic. Anyway. "cat" also referred to an
aficionado of jazz (of either sex). "Cool Cat" was part of the beatnik
generation in the late 50's and early 60's and was probably
personified best by Ed "Cookie" Burns (at least on television).

I haven't bothered going back through this long thread, but "Cat" is
also a nickname for Catherine (and its variant spellings)... and most
likely used as a nickname by Cat in this forum.

[Cat]

(follow-ups to .social)

Tom wrote:

<snip>

Post by Tom
Boy, has this wandered off topic.

Hehe, I'm surprised no one else moved it to .social before now, which is
what I'm doing.

Post by Tom
Anyway. "cat" also referred to an
aficionado of jazz (of either sex). "Cool Cat" was part of the beatnik
generation in the late 50's and early 60's and was probably
personified best by Ed "Cookie" Burns (at least on television).
I haven't bothered going back through this long thread, but "Cat" is
also a nickname for Catherine (and its variant spellings)... and most
likely used as a nickname by Cat in this forum.

Yes, that's exactly why I find it hard to believe that some people want
to label me with the male gender on this board. "Cat" isn't short for my
real name, but I have seen it most often used as a nickname for people
with names like Catherine or other Cat/Kat type names. Used here, "Cat"
is just a shorter variation of nicknames I use on other parts of the
internet. I've also noticed on this particular newsgroup (examples like
"dear sir", etc.), that some people are under the false impression that
women don't concern themselves with spam fighting, which leads to some
people mistakenly assuming all of the newsgroup participants are male.

[Uncle StoatWarbler]

Post by Robert Taylor
Final footnote: For decades, (as most Americans probably still know) among
American jazz musicians, the word "cat" referred to any adult male, but
primarily to other jazz musicians (male). Thus: in the '30s and '40s, "hip
cat"; in the '50s and thereabouts, "cool cat"; both terms denoting a
person who was temperamentally, ethically, or musically (or all three)
deserving of great respect. During the '50s, a single woman was called a
"chick". Interesting juxtaposition.

At the same time you had "cathouses" and "Chick Corea"(sp) :)

[Thomas Mooney]

Post by Robert Taylor
English, perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?).

I'm curious about two things:

1) In what way is being non-gender-specific perverse?

2) Conversely, perhaps, how does gender-specificity of nouns improve a
language?

I was raised speaking the american dialect of english. I studied french and
german while in school. (Well, to be honest, I didn't study all that much.
<g>) We were never told how having masculinity and femininity (and, in the
case of german, neutrality) associated with nouns was valuable. I could
only see it as "one more thing to remember".

Further, the lack of consistency, even among the europeans, leaves one
feeling that the assignment of gender specificity is a bit capricious.

Truly curious,

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

[Dick Cardy]

Post by Thomas Mooney
2) Conversely, perhaps, how does gender-specificity of nouns improve a
language?

Try Hebrew (Ivrit), not only nouns are gender specific

Dick

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Thomas Mooney

English, perversely, is not gender-specific about much of anything
(should we infer some deep truth from this?).

1) In what way is being non-gender-specific perverse?

In a strictly figurative sense. Implication was that most Indo-European
languages are gender-specific, but "we" had to be different. Largely
tongue-in cheek; not seriously intended. :)

Post by Thomas Mooney
2) Conversely, perhaps, how does gender-specificity of nouns improve a
language?

I don't believe I indicated that it did, although there are certain
conveniences. A bit too lengthy to go into, though, especially OT.

Post by Thomas Mooney
... the lack of consistency, even among the europeans, leaves one
feeling that the assignment of gender specificity is a bit capricious.

Apparently a series of accidents, or simply geo-historical residue. The
Roman Legions spread a mass of Latin dialects all over the place for a very
long time, which in due course became French, Spanish, Italian, and left
strong traces in German, etc. (Gross over-simplification of course: a lot
of stuff happened before, and in-between--beginning with Sanscrit.)

All natural languages are shot through with capriciousness. If you're
looking for logic, read Principia Mathematica (Russell/Whitehead), or study
the development of context-free languages; you'll never find it in natural
languages.


Regards,

Robert

--
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm


NOTARY SOJAC
(Dizzy Gillespie, Prop.)

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Robert Taylor
In a strictly figurative sense. Implication was that most Indo-European
languages are gender-specific, but "we" had to be different. Largely
tongue-in cheek; not seriously intended. :)

English *used* to have gender. It can be seen in the possessive case.

Like in German, we add an "s" (or "'s" most of the time) to the end of a
word to make it a possessive, for example "my cat's teeth are sharp".

German does the same thing, but only to masculine and neutral nouns. For
example, "my dog's teeth are sharp" would be "Die Zähne meines Hunds sind
scharf" (dog = Hund, masculine in German), but coming back to the cat's
teeth, it would be "Die Zähne meiner Katze sind scharf". "Katze" being
feminine takes no "s".

English used to be like this and there is still at least one example of it
in today's language: "Lady day". Not "Lady's day" as it would be now, but
"Lady day" in which the original Germanic construct is maintained.

And that concludes today's wildly off-topic language lesson :)

[Frank Ellermann]

Godwin Stewart wrote:

[OT, old English]

Post by Godwin Stewart
dog = Hund, masculine in German

You could use three steps to explain this:
Hund - hound - dog, Tier - deer - animal, Schwein - svine - pig

Post by Godwin Stewart
in today's language: "Lady day"

Interesting. For the example with countries the old Latin name
might help: Austria, Britannia, Germania (all female). For
ships it might be similar, many ships have female names, but
I don't recall any "her" in conjunction with the "Enterprise".

Post by Godwin Stewart
that concludes today's wildly off-topic language lesson :)

As long as others feel free to top-post let's have fun... ;-)

Bye, Frank

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Frank Ellermann
I don't recall any "her" in conjunction with the "Enterprise".

Scotty made many references to "her" in the various Star Trek movies :)

[James McCarty Yeager]

Post by Godwin Stewart

Post by Frank Ellermann
I don't recall any "her" in conjunction with the "Enterprise".

Scotty made many references to "her" in the various Star Trek movies :)

plus of course scotty's famous <scots burr> "she can't take much more of this,
cap'n!" </scots burr>
jmy

[Jeff G.]

Post by James McCarty Yeager

Post by Godwin Stewart

Post by Frank Ellermann
I don't recall any "her" in conjunction with the "Enterprise".

Scotty made many references to "her" in the various Star Trek movies :)

plus of course scotty's famous <scots burr> "she can't take much more
of this, cap'n!" </scots burr>

Scotty could've just meant the engine, rather than the entire ship.

OTOH, Gene Roddenberry gave female Majel Barrett the part of the ships'
computers voices, the leading female role in the pilot "The Cage" as Number
One, and supporting roles in ST:TOS as Nurse Christine Chapel and in ST:TNG
and ST:DS9 as Lwaxana Troi (Deanna's Troi's mother). He also married her.
"Majel remains the only actor to have contributed to every facet of the
/Star Trek/ phenomenon." Ref:
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/cast/111529.html

[Pat Willener]

Post by Thomas Mooney

English, perversely, is not gender-specific about much of anything.

...
I was raised speaking the american dialect of english. I studied french and
german while in school. (Well, to be honest, I didn't study all that much.
<g>) We were never told how having masculinity and femininity (and, in the
case of german, neutrality) associated with nouns was valuable. I could
only see it as "one more thing to remember".
Further, the lack of consistency, even among the europeans, leaves one
feeling that the assignment of gender specificity is a bit capricious.

Being a non-native English speaker, I believed until recently that nouns in
the English language are not gender-specific. Then I heard some instances
where really curious things (like a country, or a ship) is referred to as
"she". From my native language I would have assumed that it would be "it".
Obviously, English is more gender-specific than - for instance - Japanese.

Interesting subject coming out of an original flame...

[Jeff G.]

Post by Pat Willener

Post by Thomas Mooney
I was raised speaking the american dialect of english. I studied
french and german while in school. (Well, to be honest, I didn't
study all that much. <g>) We were never told how having masculinity
and femininity (and, in the case of german, neutrality) associated
with nouns was valuable. I could only see it as "one more thing to
remember".
Further, the lack of consistency, even among the europeans, leaves
one feeling that the assignment of gender specificity is a bit
capricious.

Being a non-native English speaker, I believed until recently that
nouns in the English language are not gender-specific. Then I heard
some instances where really curious things (like a country, or a
ship) is referred to as "she". From my native language I would have
assumed that it would be "it". Obviously, English is more
gender-specific than - for instance - Japanese.

I believe that this comes from a "things that men can love too much and
women can be jealous of" perspective. I've also heard from other men that
this comes from a "difficult to steer" similarity. In addition, as it ends
in an "a", "America" sounds feminine.

Post by Pat Willener
Interesting subject coming out of an original flame...

Certainly.

[James McCarty Yeager]

Post by Thomas Mooney

Post by Robert Taylor
English, perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?).

1) In what way is being non-gender-specific perverse?

in this context, perverse=non-standard to most of the rest of the world's languages.

Post by Thomas Mooney
2) Conversely, perhaps, how does gender-specificity of nouns improve a
language?

languages over time seem to move from more grammatical specificity (or
complexity if you will) toward less. like mountain ranges wearing down from
erosion, after a while gender smooths out and becomes less visible, case smooths
out and becomes less visible, and some tenses seem to drop away from lack of
use. gender specificity is not added in later to a language; it's there at the
beginning, and then wears away.

Post by Thomas Mooney
I was raised speaking the american dialect of english. I studied french and
german while in school. (Well, to be honest, I didn't study all that much.
<g>) We were never told how having masculinity and femininity (and, in the
case of german, neutrality) associated with nouns was valuable. I could
only see it as "one more thing to remember".

it is an artefact of a previous consciousness. when the world was new and
mankind looked at it and began to try to classify it in sounds, he/she
attributed all kinds of human qualities to everything in creation. as gender is
one of the most basic, it was universally attributed. but then, over time,
languages shed their original fine level of grammatical detail, possibly
supplementing its functionality with vocabulary spread.

Post by Thomas Mooney
Further, the lack of consistency, even among the europeans, leaves one
feeling that the assignment of gender specificity is a bit capricious.

well, yes. language is an agreement to use sounds and symbols in a certain way.
and all symbols are capricious, inherently.

jmy

[Thomas Mooney]

Post by James McCarty Yeager

Post by Thomas Mooney

Post by Robert Taylor
English, perversely, is
not gender-specific about much of anything (should we infer some deep
truth from this?).

1) In what way is being non-gender-specific perverse?

in this context, perverse=non-standard to most of the rest of the world's languages.

I'll say this in my defense: before I posted my question I pulled out a
dictionary and looked up "perverse" to affirm that it carried the negative
meaning I inferred and that "non-standard" wasn't buried down in the fourth
or fifth definition. I have subsequently consulted other dictionaries and
while most definitions carry some significant negative overtones, I found a
reference to "counter to what is expected".

I really wasn't looking to pick a fight here, but rather to learn something.
And I really don't suspect Robert Taylor was looking to pick a fight, except
possibly in some playful way (e.g. the followup line about inferring some
"deep truth").

I just don't see any value to imposing gender specificity. The germans at
least allow for neutrality. The french insist on gender assignment. But,
regardless, knowing the gender of a noun doesn't really help the
writer/reader in communication 99.99999% of the time. Beyond writing with
significant historical context (e.g. mythology), gender specificity seems to
be merely a skill to be mastered with no compensation for mastery.

The historical perspective you and others have provided is quite
interesting. And I probably wouldn't have raised the issue except that the
word "perverse" was provocative. And it seemed to defend an aspect of
speech that could most kindly be viewed as vestigal, less kindly as a
nuisance. And I couldn't/can't see how the loss of gender specificity
was/is anything but an improvement in the language.

Thanks to all who replied. It was educational.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

[Marjolein Katsma]

Post by James McCarty Yeager

Post by Thomas Mooney
1) In what way is being non-gender-specific perverse?

in this context, perverse=non-standard to most of the rest of the world's languages.

For the languages I've had exposure to, I would say about half (at most)
have gender-specific nouns (and corresponding forms); but there are *so*
many languages in the world, I certainly wouldn't be prepared to say that
most languages in the world have gender-specific forms.

[Nobody]

"Cat" <***@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:***@spamcop.net...
<snip>

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name. Try getting it right next time.
Automatically assuming that someone using the name Cat is a "he" is
about as ridiculous as if someone were to assume you're female despite
your name being Mike.

</snip>

Cat is the name of the male feline character on Red Dwarf. I have known
more male "Cat"s than female. There is nothing inherently female in this
name, particularly in Asia.

We all come from different frames of reference, especially since so many of
the posters here are using English as a second language. Moreover, the
gender conventions in use in much of the world--which tend to grate on the
ears of Westerners who have been spanked by the PC police for making gender
assumptions--do not spark the same visceral reaction in female listeners
outside the West.

IMHO, we would be better served by assuming the best of intentions in the
posters here, especially those who post somewhat frequently. I have seen a
lot of these topics get wildly off track, largely because someone got
offended by what might or might not have been an honest mistake. (Except
for the obvious trolling. . .which should be met with a prompt YHBT, YHL,
HAND.)

Let us please try to ignore the incitements to flame, minor slights that
have no bearing on the topic at hand, and gently handle the newbies.

At least until I get my *plonk* working again.

Patrick

[Leon Mayne]

Post by Cat
"Cat" is an obvious female name.

You've never watched Red Dwarf then.....

:-)

[Cat]

Post by Mike Vollmer
Another control freak on the prowl...

One more thing...
Maybe in all your top posting glory, you don't mind sifting through all
the spam posts to find a real discussion, but the rest of us who follow
the posting rules do mind.

[sol]

Post by Cat

Post by Mike Vollmer
Another control freak on the prowl...

One more thing...
Maybe in all your top posting glory, you don't mind sifting through all
the spam posts to find a real discussion, but the rest of us who follow
the posting rules do mind.

It is proper netiquette to bottom post on newsgroups, but to reply to
e-mails in top post fashion? That seems to be Mozilla's default
behavior. I sure hope that I have this correct.

Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

[Larry Kilgallen]

Post by sol

Post by Cat

Post by Mike Vollmer
Another control freak on the prowl...

One more thing...
Maybe in all your top posting glory, you don't mind sifting through all
the spam posts to find a real discussion, but the rest of us who follow
the posting rules do mind.

It is proper netiquette to bottom post on newsgroups,

No, it is not proper to bottom-post on newsgroups. One should
trim heavily and post interspersed after each comment to
which one is responding. For very short posts, that might
look like bottom posting, but the thought process is totally
different.

Post by sol
but to reply to
e-mails in top post fashion?

Email is a different mechanism, less likely to have people coming
into the discussion in the middle.

Post by sol
That seems to be Mozilla's default
behavior.

It is impossible for a program to do the part about "trim that
which is unrelated to the comments you are about to make.

[Cat]

<snip>

Post by sol

Post by Cat
One more thing...
Maybe in all your top posting glory, you don't mind sifting through all
the spam posts to find a real discussion, but the rest of us who follow
the posting rules do mind.

It is proper netiquette to bottom post on newsgroups, but to reply to
e-mails in top post fashion?

<snip>

E-mail is one thing because it's a one on one conversation. On the other
hand, the method of proper netiquette for newsgroups where many people
read and participate in the discussion is inline posting, not top
posting or bottom posting. The preferred method around this newsgroup,
which follows netiquette, is to snip any quoted text not relevant to
your reply then add your own comments below each quoted point you are
addressing. Inline posting keeps the conversation in order and easy to
follow. Top posting forces people to read the reply at the top then to
waste time scrolling down to figure out the context of the reply, which
is totally backward. Bottom posting is really only good if you're
snipping everything except one quoted point then replying to that point
at the bottom. Otherwise, bottom posting forces people to waste time
scrolling down through endless lines of irrelevant text to find the
reply somewhere at the bottom then to have to figure out the context.
Mike Vollmer caused quite a stir somewhere in another thread because
people politely asked him to stop top posting, and he reacted with a
childish temper tantrum, protesting the request to stop top posting.
Hopefully this isn't going to turn into yet another top/bottom/inline
posting debate since the thread is already way off topic, and the
top/bottom/inline thing has already been hashed and rehashed several
times recently in other threads.

[sol]

<snip>
On the other

Post by Cat
hand, the method of proper netiquette for newsgroups where many people
read and participate in the discussion is inline posting, not top
posting or bottom posting. The preferred method around this newsgroup,
which follows netiquette, is to snip any quoted text not relevant to
your reply then add your own comments below each quoted point you are
addressing.

Thanks - I agree that inline is much more reader friendly. A moment of
extra effort is involved in preparing the post, but it saves plenty of
time for the many readers.

[Miss Betsy]

Sol is male

Miss Betsy

[n***@spamcop.net]

Wow, how the thread does wander!

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

I know one of each, so I can't tell from personal experience.
Probably male is more common, but this might be a trick
question, asked by one of the few female examples!

[Jeff G.]

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

All of the "Sol"s that I have known were male, and all short for "Solomon",
so I'll guess Male.

OTOH, CNN's Anchor Soledad O'Brien is female.

[Miss Betsy]

Post by Jeff G.

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

All of the "Sol"s that I have known were male, and all short for "Solomon",
so I'll guess Male.
OTOH, CNN's Anchor Soledad O'Brien is female.

OTOH, Sol (the Sun) is a male gender noun, I believe, in languages
having gender as well as being a god rather than a goddess in
myths.

Miss Betsy

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Miss Betsy

Post by Jeff G.

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

All of the "Sol"s that I have known were male, and all short for
"Solomon", so I'll guess Male.
OTOH, CNN's Anchor Soledad O'Brien is female.

OTOH, Sol (the Sun) is a male gender noun, I believe, in languages
having gender as well as being a god rather than a goddess in
myths.
Miss Betsy

OTOH (:-} ), not male in at least one, rather pervasive language; German:
"die Sonne" (noun, fem.). IIRC, so-called "Romance" languages of the
Indo-European stripe all use the feminine form of the word (It., "la luna",
Fr., la lune, etc.). Also, in German, the moon is masculine ("der Mond").
/Figuriamoci/ ("go figure").

As I remarked somewhere else on this board (I think), if you're looking for
logic, don't expect to find it in natural languages; they'll baffle you
every time! :)

(P. S. The gender of the word "foo" is, AFAICT, unknown, and Smokey
Stover, who _might_ have known (doubtful) is no longer whinnying with us...)

Regards,

--
Robert
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm

23 skidoo foo (Dizzy Gillespie, Prop.)

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Robert Taylor

Post by Miss Betsy

Post by Jeff G.

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

All of the "Sol"s that I have known were male, and all short for
"Solomon", so I'll guess Male.
OTOH, CNN's Anchor Soledad O'Brien is female.

OTOH, Sol (the Sun) is a male gender noun, I believe, in languages
having gender as well as being a god rather than a goddess in
myths.
Miss Betsy

"die Sonne" (noun, fem.). IIRC, so-called "Romance" languages of the
Indo-European stripe all use the feminine form of the word (It., "la
luna", Fr., la lune, etc.). Also, in German, the moon is masculine ("der
Mond"). /Figuriamoci/ ("go figure").
As I remarked somewhere else on this board (I think), if you're looking
for logic, don't expect to find it in natural languages; they'll baffle
you every time! :)
(P. S. The gender of the word "foo" is, AFAICT, unknown, and Smokey
Stover, who _might_ have known (doubtful) is no longer whinnying with us...)

Oops (correcting my own post; should have taken that nap). Second
sentence in my post, above, should of course read:

" IIRC, so-called "Romance" languages of the Indo-European stripe all use
the feminine form of the word _"moon"_ (It., "la luna", Fr., la lune, etc.).
Also, in German, the moon is masculine ("der Mond"). /Figuriamoci/ ("go
figure"). "

The word "sun", as Miss B. points out, appears often in masculine form (It.,
"il sole", Fr. "le soleil", etc.).

Regards,

--
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm

SILENCE IS FOO

[Frank Ellermann]

if you're looking for logic, don't expect to find it in
natural languages; they'll baffle you every time! :)

The reason could be rather simple, Germany is one of these
cold northern countries, so we like the sun, therefore it's
female (same as terra - Erde - earth). Italy is one of
the hot southern countries, they prefer a cool "la luna".

But "terra sol" was the nick name of a German net activist,
male... ;-)
Bye, Frank

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Frank Ellermann

if you're looking for logic, don't expect to find it in
natural languages; they'll baffle you every time! :)

The reason could be rather simple, Germany is one of these
cold northern countries, so we like the sun, therefore it's
female (same as terra - Erde - earth). Italy is one of
the hot southern countries, they prefer a cool "la luna".
But "terra sol" was the nick name of a German net activist,
male... ;-)
Bye, Frank

Anyone living in a northerly clime will likely be most appreciative of the
warmth of the sun (it often seemed to me that I noticed a disproportionate
number of Germans settled in Southern California, compared to persons from
other European countries--and having lived in Berlin for more than two
years, the logic of that was not hard to see!); though how this might be
related to the *gender* of the sun is less clear to me.
Perhaps that depends on the gender of the observer. ;-)

As for the Italians, they seem always to prefer the Greek roots of such
objects--as well as other, quite varied, common nouns ("/il pilota/", "/il
programma/", "/il poeta/", etc.). No, I'm afraid we're stuck with the
vagaries of Greek (or not) roots, by way of Latin, for the most part. Then,
there's always Middle English, and the "Franglais" of Chaucer's time, among
other singularities; but that really takes us far afield! (Fun though.)

Better end the topic-drift here, though, else the OT police will descend. :)

Regards,


--
Robert
eMail: ***@SpamCop.net
Web-Address: http://users.rcn.com/robertt.nh.ultranet/Web-SitePg1.htm

(1506 nix nix - Dizzy Gillespie, foo Mgr.)

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Robert Taylor
Better end the topic-drift here, though, else the OT police will descend.

I guess it makes sense that "Police" is feminine in many languages:
la police, die Polizei, de politie... :)

[Robert Taylor]

Post by Godwin Stewart

Post by Robert Taylor
Better end the topic-drift here, though, else the OT police will descend.

la police, die Polizei, de politie... :)

... I wouldn't touch that with tongs, Godwin :)

[sol]

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

Sol's gender is posted in spamcop.social - news://news.spamcop.net:119/bu246h$kk4$***@news.spamcop.net
It was fun to see everyone guess and speculate

[Jeff G.]

Post by sol

Post by sol
Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to Sol's gender?

It was fun to see everyone guess and speculate
In reference to the following thread that drifted severely
Sol is male, inspired by the sun. Thanks to all for speculating.

[Miss Betsy]

Post by Mike Vollmer
Another control freak on the prowl... In a couple of of Cat's

other posts

Post by Mike Vollmer
this evening he picks at at someone else's spelling and refers to another as
"particularly rude and snotty". Try looking in the mirror and

improve your

Post by Mike Vollmer
own demeanor first.

I am not going to debate about Cat's personal characteristics;
however, I had no idea why Luis posted or what he wanted. I find
the inline/bottom posting to be much better for the conversational
style of a newsgroup and the posting of a complete spam to be a
nuisance - not everyone needs to see the entire spam to comment.
If it is necessary, then there is a place to post it.

And even if Luis didn't know about. spam or can't access it for
some reason, there was no reason to post the entire spam. Relevant
parts would be enough to start a discussion.

The question of how he posted is moot since this particular case
has been fixed in spamcop, but it is not unusual for abuse desks to
pass reports on to the originator and for the spammer to respond
with another spam - sometimes with nasty comments embedded in the
sender or subject line.

Miss Betsy, an almost new internet user

[RW]

This issue has been dealt with. ***@accessconx.com will not be
receiving any more SpamCop reports (at least directly).

Richard

[Ellen]

Post by Luis
Received: by user2.cybercity.dk (mbox dsl78643)
(with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Jan 5 04:52:13 2004)
Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53])
by user1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46A074F8D5
Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (vmx1.spamcop.net [206.14.107.113])
by cicero2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF5318F9BC
Received: from unknown (HELO spamcop.net) (192.168.11.201)
by vmx1.spamcop.net with SMTP; 03 Jan 2004 23:06:15 -0800
Received: from vmx1.spamcop.net (sc-smtp1.verio.ironport.com
[192.168.11.200])
by sc-app1.verio.ironport.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E17F26B
Received: from 54-112.202-68.se.rr.com (68.202.112.54)
by vmx1.spamcop.net with SMTP; 03 Jan 2004 23:05:53 -0800
Received: from [206.130.82.117] by 54-112.202-68.se.rr.com with ESMTP id
<416305-47230>; Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:01:34 +0400
Subject: I found this site that helped me payback my Xmas debt ykm
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 04 11:01:34 GMT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="5DB_7.D_E0_"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-PMFLAGS: 570950016 0 1 PMIEVMS5.CNM

This was sent to a report number address; each report that is sent from the
system gets a report number that is unique to that report. The theory is
that the ISP getting the report can write to that address if they need to
ask you something or to acknowledge the report. It appears that
***@accessconx.com is passing the reports they receive to the spammer or
perhaps they are the spammer and people are now starting to get spam to the
report number addresses. ***@accessconx.com is no longer getting SpamCop
reports and the report number email addresses become non-functional after 30
days.

The headers will parse just fine and this spam was injected using a RR open
proxy.

Ellen

[Spam Trap]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:41:23 -0500, "Ellen" <***@spamcop.net> wrote:


...
Yay!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

--
A user, not a reporting address...