Help for all the unemployed MSCEs posting in COLA

[Ian Hilliard]

It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.

http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318

Ian

[DFS]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0


It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.

Good one, Bighead!



"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."

LMAO!

[flatfish+++]

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

That's funny!

[DFS]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

That's funny!

They select the OS /after/ they write and test the code. That's how
it's done in Ian's world...

[flatfish+++]

Post by DFS

Post by flatfish+++

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

That's funny!

They select the OS /after/ they write and test the code. That's how
it's done in Ian's world...

"All of our cars have audio systems in them. We select the engine,
transmission and suspension based upon which audio system option the
buyer chooses".....

[Hadron]

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

[Ian Hilliard]

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable. People, who make the mistake of
making it a requirement often fall all over the results of their
decision, when their chosen platform cannot do what is required. A
common form of this is the need to do some hack in Windows using an
undocumented interface, because the OS was actually the wrong choice for
the task. Then suddenly, surprise surprise, the next set of patches from
Microsoft breaks things. This is because the developers shouldn't have
been using those undocumented interfaces anyway.

This also goes back to proper decision making methodology. A decision
should be made using the best available information. The problem is that
often some critical pieces of information are simply not available. This
is where assumptions come in to play. People make logical assumptions
often based on experience. A common form of reasoning behind the
assumption is the belief that if it works for A then it must work for B.
I have seen such assumptions being made, even where A and B bear no
resemblance to each other.

The problem with assumptions is that they may or may not be correct. I
have however seen too many such assumptions taken for gospel. Under
such circumstances, assumption is likely to lead to disaster. Put
another way, "Assumption is the mother of all fsck-ups."

If development is made on the basis that the platform could be changed,
it opens up access to a number of different tools for testing. It also
forces the developers to use the OS abstraction layer that has been
chosen and in turn stops the developers from using OS specific hacks. If
the chosen OS turns out to be usable, then the application is also
likely to survive updates. If the OS turns out not to be suitable, then
it can be changed. This is good engineering and a key to good project
management.

I know that all the wintrolls in this group are poo-pooing this posting,
as it does not agree with the evangelical training they have received
from Redmond. It is however the best way to stop from painting oneself
into a technological corner.

Ian

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Ian Hilliard

<moronic drivel snipped>

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable. People, who make the mistake of
making it a requirement often fall all over the results of their
decision, when their chosen platform cannot do what is required. A
common form of this is the need to do some hack in Windows using an
undocumented interface, because the OS was actually the wrong choice for
the task. Then suddenly, surprise surprise, the next set of patches from
Microsoft breaks things. This is because the developers shouldn't have
been using those undocumented interfaces anyway.
This also goes back to proper decision making methodology. A decision
should be made using the best available information. The problem is that
often some critical pieces of information are simply not available. This
is where assumptions come in to play. People make logical assumptions
often based on experience. A common form of reasoning behind the
assumption is the belief that if it works for A then it must work for B.
I have seen such assumptions being made, even where A and B bear no
resemblance to each other.
The problem with assumptions is that they may or may not be correct. I
have however seen too many such assumptions taken for gospel. Under
such circumstances, assumption is likely to lead to disaster. Put
another way, "Assumption is the mother of all fsck-ups."
If development is made on the basis that the platform could be changed,
it opens up access to a number of different tools for testing. It also
forces the developers to use the OS abstraction layer that has been
chosen and in turn stops the developers from using OS specific hacks. If
the chosen OS turns out to be usable, then the application is also
likely to survive updates. If the OS turns out not to be suitable, then
it can be changed. This is good engineering and a key to good project
management.
I know that all the wintrolls in this group are poo-pooing this posting,
as it does not agree with the evangelical training they have received
from Redmond. It is however the best way to stop from painting oneself
into a technological corner.

The two responders to your posts are swine. Plonkworthy.
--
Fortune's Rules for Memo Wars: #2

Given the incredible advances in sociocybernetics and telepsychology over
the last few years, we are now able to completely understand everything that
the author of an memo is trying to say. Thanks to modern developments
in electrocommunications like notes, vnews, and electricity, we have an
incredible level of interunderstanding the likes of which civilization has
never known. Thus, the possibility of your misinterpreting someone else's
memo is practically nil. Knowing this, anyone who accuses you of having
done so is a liar, and should be treated accordingly. If you *do* understand
the memo in question, but have absolutely nothing of substance to say, then
you have an excellent opportunity for a vicious ad hominem attack. In fact,
the only *inappropriate* times for an ad hominem attack are as follows:

1: When you agree completely with the author of an memo.
2: When the author of the original memo is much bigger than you are.
3: When replying to one of your own memos.

[Hadron]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard

<moronic drivel snipped>

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable. People, who make the mistake of
making it a requirement often fall all over the results of their
decision, when their chosen platform cannot do what is required. A
common form of this is the need to do some hack in Windows using an
undocumented interface, because the OS was actually the wrong choice for
the task. Then suddenly, surprise surprise, the next set of patches from
Microsoft breaks things. This is because the developers shouldn't have
been using those undocumented interfaces anyway.
This also goes back to proper decision making methodology. A decision
should be made using the best available information. The problem is that
often some critical pieces of information are simply not available. This
is where assumptions come in to play. People make logical assumptions
often based on experience. A common form of reasoning behind the
assumption is the belief that if it works for A then it must work for B.
I have seen such assumptions being made, even where A and B bear no
resemblance to each other.
The problem with assumptions is that they may or may not be correct. I
have however seen too many such assumptions taken for gospel. Under
such circumstances, assumption is likely to lead to disaster. Put
another way, "Assumption is the mother of all fsck-ups."
If development is made on the basis that the platform could be changed,
it opens up access to a number of different tools for testing. It also
forces the developers to use the OS abstraction layer that has been
chosen and in turn stops the developers from using OS specific hacks. If
the chosen OS turns out to be usable, then the application is also
likely to survive updates. If the OS turns out not to be suitable, then
it can be changed. This is good engineering and a key to good project
management.
I know that all the wintrolls in this group are poo-pooing this posting,
as it does not agree with the evangelical training they have received
from Redmond. It is however the best way to stop from painting oneself
into a technological corner.

The two responders to your posts are swine. Plonkworthy.

Yet he's posting here about MCSE etc? Maybe you could call us "cunts"
and "fuckheads" again you simpering little weenie. Or maybe show us with
assembler how Peter's crap code was really world class? Or maybe lick
Hilliard's arse about his claims that he designs, implements and tests
world class SW before deciding what platform it sell it on? Ahlstrom :
you're a twit. Out and out twit.

[flatfish+++]

Post by Hadron

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard

<moronic drivel snipped>

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable. People, who make the mistake of
making it a requirement often fall all over the results of their
decision, when their chosen platform cannot do what is required. A
common form of this is the need to do some hack in Windows using an
undocumented interface, because the OS was actually the wrong choice for
the task. Then suddenly, surprise surprise, the next set of patches from
Microsoft breaks things. This is because the developers shouldn't have
been using those undocumented interfaces anyway.
This also goes back to proper decision making methodology. A decision
should be made using the best available information. The problem is that
often some critical pieces of information are simply not available. This
is where assumptions come in to play. People make logical assumptions
often based on experience. A common form of reasoning behind the
assumption is the belief that if it works for A then it must work for B.
I have seen such assumptions being made, even where A and B bear no
resemblance to each other.
The problem with assumptions is that they may or may not be correct. I
have however seen too many such assumptions taken for gospel. Under
such circumstances, assumption is likely to lead to disaster. Put
another way, "Assumption is the mother of all fsck-ups."
If development is made on the basis that the platform could be changed,
it opens up access to a number of different tools for testing. It also
forces the developers to use the OS abstraction layer that has been
chosen and in turn stops the developers from using OS specific hacks. If
the chosen OS turns out to be usable, then the application is also
likely to survive updates. If the OS turns out not to be suitable, then
it can be changed. This is good engineering and a key to good project
management.
I know that all the wintrolls in this group are poo-pooing this posting,
as it does not agree with the evangelical training they have received
from Redmond. It is however the best way to stop from painting oneself
into a technological corner.

The two responders to your posts are swine. Plonkworthy.

Yet he's posting here about MCSE etc? Maybe you could call us "cunts"
and "fuckheads" again you simpering little weenie. Or maybe show us with
assembler how Peter's crap code was really world class? Or maybe lick
Hilliard's arse about his claims that he designs, implements and tests
you're a twit. Out and out twit.

Ahlstrom has no self worth and certainly no spine. He is a follower
not a leader. He will suck up to the herd no matter how bizarre or
incorrect the herd might be.

A pretty sad person this Chris Ahlstrom is.

[Silver Slimer]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Hadron

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard

<moronic drivel snipped>

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable. People, who make the mistake of
making it a requirement often fall all over the results of their
decision, when their chosen platform cannot do what is required. A
common form of this is the need to do some hack in Windows using an
undocumented interface, because the OS was actually the wrong choice for
the task. Then suddenly, surprise surprise, the next set of patches from
Microsoft breaks things. This is because the developers shouldn't have
been using those undocumented interfaces anyway.
This also goes back to proper decision making methodology. A decision
should be made using the best available information. The problem is that
often some critical pieces of information are simply not available. This
is where assumptions come in to play. People make logical assumptions
often based on experience. A common form of reasoning behind the
assumption is the belief that if it works for A then it must work for B.
I have seen such assumptions being made, even where A and B bear no
resemblance to each other.
The problem with assumptions is that they may or may not be correct. I
have however seen too many such assumptions taken for gospel. Under
such circumstances, assumption is likely to lead to disaster. Put
another way, "Assumption is the mother of all fsck-ups."
If development is made on the basis that the platform could be changed,
it opens up access to a number of different tools for testing. It also
forces the developers to use the OS abstraction layer that has been
chosen and in turn stops the developers from using OS specific hacks. If
the chosen OS turns out to be usable, then the application is also
likely to survive updates. If the OS turns out not to be suitable, then
it can be changed. This is good engineering and a key to good project
management.
I know that all the wintrolls in this group are poo-pooing this posting,
as it does not agree with the evangelical training they have received
from Redmond. It is however the best way to stop from painting oneself
into a technological corner.

The two responders to your posts are swine. Plonkworthy.

Yet he's posting here about MCSE etc? Maybe you could call us "cunts"
and "fuckheads" again you simpering little weenie. Or maybe show us with
assembler how Peter's crap code was really world class? Or maybe lick
Hilliard's arse about his claims that he designs, implements and tests
you're a twit. Out and out twit.

Ahlstrom has no self worth and certainly no spine. He is a follower
not a leader. He will suck up to the herd no matter how bizarre or
incorrect the herd might be.
A pretty sad person this Chris Ahlstrom is.

He's a cancer. Cancers generally have no mind of their own and tend to
have emotional troubles throughout their life. He's in excellent company
with Mike Tyson and OJ Simpson.

[chrisv]

Post by Ian Hilliard
I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement.

You're going to talk of "engineering" to those two shitwits, as if
they could understand, even if they wanted-to? They *live* to
childishly needle those who more intelligent and better-educated than
they are.

You can be 100% correct, able to *prove* it, and *still* be ridiculed.

Perhaps "Hadron" will do you the honor of putting your 100% correct
statements in his sig, like he has done with mine.

Yes, that's the best that they can do against me (that, and point-out
that I curse a lot).

[DFS]

Post by chrisv

Post by Ian Hilliard
I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance
in public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement.

You're going to talk of "engineering" to those two shitwits, as if
they could understand, even if they wanted-to? They *live* to
childishly needle those who more intelligent and better-educated than
they are.
You can be 100% correct, able to *prove* it, and *still* be ridiculed.

Only if you continue to say stupid things... like you and Creepy++ and
the other "advocates" constantly do. For instance, you recently said:

"It makes sense because, what, 1 percent of the world's computers,
basically one type of machine, are using NTFS?"

heh! What an innumerate idiot.

And the other day Creepy++ mewled: "Apparently the fool thinks Windows
is "the standard" OS."


cola "advocates": sure we're stupid, but we're stupid in our own newsgroup

Post by chrisv
Perhaps "Hadron" will do you the honor of putting your 100% correct
statements in his sig, like he has done with mine.
Yes, that's the best that they can do against me (that, and point-out
that I curse a lot).

I knew when I pointed it out you'd slow down, but could you get back to
the old red-faced frothing and cursing you specialized in for so long?
It's kind of amusing.

[Hadron]

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it. It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.

Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.

Someone would have to be asshole of the highest order, and that would be
you Hilliard, to design, implement and test only on Linux, for example,
when your target is... not surprisingly, the Windows desktop.

And I can assure you that users do NOT like generic kludgy swing type
UIs. They want something responsive and native.

You really are a fuckwit.

next thing : I dont believe in MS. I use Debian.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Post by Hadron

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it.

"Many reasons" you can't name, Hadron Snit Msg-ID Larry. Not one

Post by Hadron
It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.

Idiot

Post by Hadron
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.

Bullshit

As usual you display your complete incompetence. You know absolutely nothing
about crossplatform

[chrisv]

Post by Hadron
Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it.

Once again the clueless lightweight "Hadron" is 100% correct, while
the professional's position is "total and utter nonsense".

Sheesh. What a loser. What a shit-brained asshole.

"Ezekiel" likes him, though.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by chrisv

Post by Hadron
Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it.

Once again the clueless lightweight "Hadron" is 100% correct, while
the professional's position is "total and utter nonsense".
Sheesh. What a loser. What a shit-brained asshole.
"Ezekiel" likes him, though.
--
"Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by claiming
aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end when I warned
against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying shamelessly to attack,
after getting spanked in the debate (TomB actually wrote that aptitude
is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

[chrisv]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by chrisv
--
"Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by claiming
aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end when I warned
against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying shamelessly to attack,
after getting spanked in the debate (TomB actually wrote that aptitude
is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

The sphincter part, anyway.

[flatfish+++]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by chrisv
--
"Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by claiming
aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end when I warned
against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying shamelessly to attack,
after getting spanked in the debate (TomB actually wrote that aptitude
is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

The sphincter part, anyway.

And chrisv wonders why he is known in COLA as turd.

[Hadron]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by chrisv
--
"Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by claiming
aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end when I warned
against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying shamelessly to attack,
after getting spanked in the debate (TomB actually wrote that aptitude
is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

The sphincter part, anyway.

And chrisv wonders why he is known in COLA as turd.

Possibly that was a mis reading on my part but what I said was indeed
correct - regardless of whether my reading of tomB was or not. I dont
mind admitting slips.

Of more importance though was using the different tools for your repo
management : it hosed my system twice. I provided links to prove it
too. Not often BUT the different tools DO do dependency management
differently and mixing them up CAN and HAS led to some horrific f-ups.

[Sandman]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

-- "Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by
claiming aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end
when I warned against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying
shamelessly to attack, after getting spanked in the debate (TomB
actually wrote that aptitude is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

The sphincter part, anyway.

Hmmm, will this work?

[GreyCloud]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by chrisv
--
"Witness TomB recently making a right tool of himself by claiming
aptitude and apt-get used exactly the same back end when I warned
against mixing them up." - "Hadron", lying shamelessly to attack,
after getting spanked in the debate (TomB actually wrote that aptitude
is a front-end to APT.)

Aptitude may be a front end, but "Hadron" is a rear end.

The sphincter part, anyway.

A good place for you lips too, turdv.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it.

"Many reasons" you can't name, Hadron Snit Msg-ID Larry. Not one

Post by Hadron
It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.

Idiot

Post by Hadron
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator

=========================

LOL

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.

Bullshit
As usual you display your complete incompetence. You know absolutely
nothing about crossplatform

Indeed, as far as programming technology goes, you can pretty port
anything... database access, files, multimedia. Most of it is pretty
straightforward, as the rather complete support Linux has for Microsoft
technology makes pretty obvious.

However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.

It boggles my mind.

[Snit]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.

Bullshit
As usual you display your complete incompetence. You know absolutely
nothing about crossplatform

Indeed, as far as programming technology goes, you can pretty port
anything... database access, files, multimedia. Most of it is pretty
straightforward, as the rather complete support Linux has for Microsoft
technology makes pretty obvious.
However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.
It boggles my mind.

It it is so straightforward why do so many open source developers do it so
poorly? Really: GIMP on OS X does not even use the system wide color
selector, no less other system services. LibreOffice is similarly crippled
on OS X (though it is getting better).

But you think this is easy to do - so the open source developers must be
incompetent if we are to believe you.
--
* Mint MATE: Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Mint / LibreOffice: http://youtu.be/USU9iqppfto
* Win 8 / Word 2013: http://youtu.be/z8gUL2TCcV4
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk

[DFS]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.
It boggles my mind.

It boggles your mind because you're a Linux idiot who, like all Linux
idiots, excuses every single Linux problem and magnifies every single
Windows problems.

That, and Windows has been the standard computer desktop in the business
world since the early 1990s (nearly 23 years).

[flatfish+++]

Post by DFS

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.
It boggles my mind.

It boggles your mind because you're a Linux idiot who, like all Linux
idiots, excuses every single Linux problem and magnifies every single
Windows problems.
That, and Windows has been the standard computer desktop in the business
world since the early 1990s (nearly 23 years).

Idiots like Chris Ahlstrom give the Linux community a bad name by
acting just like the various stereotypes the Linux community has been
branded with.

It's as bad as the Linux priest telling some noob to RTFM.

[Silver Slimer]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by DFS

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.
It boggles my mind.

It boggles your mind because you're a Linux idiot who, like all Linux
idiots, excuses every single Linux problem and magnifies every single
Windows problems.
That, and Windows has been the standard computer desktop in the business
world since the early 1990s (nearly 23 years).

Idiots like Chris Ahlstrom give the Linux community a bad name by
acting just like the various stereotypes the Linux community has been
branded with.
It's as bad as the Linux priest telling some noob to RTFM.

The problem with Chris AssStorm is that he has yet to provide any kind
of insight in to how GNU/Linux works. He's about as useful to this group
as a mule. Imagine how much more interesting he and the group would be
if he didn't just +1 everything and insult anyone who dared to comment
on one of the multitude of problems in the GNU/Linux operating system.
The moment Chris AssStorm becomes informative is the day the world sees
eternal sunshine with rainbows and unicorns.

[flatfish+++]

Post by Silver Slimer

Post by flatfish+++

Post by DFS

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
However, I will say that it is all too common, in my experience, to see
management people automatically assume that Windows will be the platform.
Even after *years* of miserable performance and untold hours of
trouble-shooting caused by the relative frailty and bloat of that platforms.
It boggles my mind.

It boggles your mind because you're a Linux idiot who, like all Linux
idiots, excuses every single Linux problem and magnifies every single
Windows problems.
That, and Windows has been the standard computer desktop in the business
world since the early 1990s (nearly 23 years).

Idiots like Chris Ahlstrom give the Linux community a bad name by
acting just like the various stereotypes the Linux community has been
branded with.
It's as bad as the Linux priest telling some noob to RTFM.

The problem with Chris AssStorm is that he has yet to provide any kind
of insight in to how GNU/Linux works. He's about as useful to this group
as a mule. Imagine how much more interesting he and the group would be
if he didn't just +1 everything and insult anyone who dared to comment
on one of the multitude of problems in the GNU/Linux operating system.
The moment Chris AssStorm becomes informative is the day the world sees
eternal sunshine with rainbows and unicorns.

Well, it was before your time here in COLA, but Chris has commented
on problems he has had with Linux. He does so on G+ as well. One item
was a $9.99 keyboard he bought where the leds or some other function
didn't work with Linux. He found a Perl script to fix it.

He finally admitted the camera in his Android Razr Maxx was "slow".
IOW slow to take a picture from the time the take picture button was
pressed. After denying for the longest time there was a problem.
And even when he does post some useful nugget he ruins the post by
acting like a giddy child.

Years ago he used to be a reasonable poster but he has turned into a
complete ass in recent years.
He seems to crave attention and acceptance from the herd and walks on
egg shells so as not to offend them.

[Silver Slimer]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Silver Slimer
The problem with Chris AssStorm is that he has yet to provide any kind
of insight in to how GNU/Linux works. He's about as useful to this group
as a mule. Imagine how much more interesting he and the group would be
if he didn't just +1 everything and insult anyone who dared to comment
on one of the multitude of problems in the GNU/Linux operating system.
The moment Chris AssStorm becomes informative is the day the world sees
eternal sunshine with rainbows and unicorns.

Well, it was before your time here in COLA, but Chris has commented
on problems he has had with Linux. He does so on G+ as well. One item
was a $9.99 keyboard he bought where the leds or some other function
didn't work with Linux. He found a Perl script to fix it.
He finally admitted the camera in his Android Razr Maxx was "slow".
IOW slow to take a picture from the time the take picture button was
pressed. After denying for the longest time there was a problem.
And even when he does post some useful nugget he ruins the post by
acting like a giddy child.
Years ago he used to be a reasonable poster but he has turned into a
complete ass in recent years.
He seems to crave attention and acceptance from the herd and walks on
egg shells so as not to offend them.

Imagine we were all in high school. On one side you have Porky Poaster,
chrisv and all of the other muppets who see sunlight once a year and
wear rags dating to the 1970's. They tend to be bitter, angry people due
to the fact that they have little to nothing going for them. On the
other, you have the athletic, good-looking people with excellent grades,
great hair and the latest in fashion who just also happen to be friendly
and sympathetic people. Which side would you CHOOSE to be on if you knew
that you'd be accepted as you are and weren't forced to change yourself
in any way? AssStorm picked the group with disco-era clothing which
hasn't been washed since that last orgy in 1979. Clothes filled with
unidentifiable stains to which little pubic hairs are attached which
also happen to emit an odour of cheap cologne and underarm sweat.

[flatfish+++]

Post by Silver Slimer

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Silver Slimer
The problem with Chris AssStorm is that he has yet to provide any kind
of insight in to how GNU/Linux works. He's about as useful to this group
as a mule. Imagine how much more interesting he and the group would be
if he didn't just +1 everything and insult anyone who dared to comment
on one of the multitude of problems in the GNU/Linux operating system.
The moment Chris AssStorm becomes informative is the day the world sees
eternal sunshine with rainbows and unicorns.

Well, it was before your time here in COLA, but Chris has commented
on problems he has had with Linux. He does so on G+ as well. One item
was a $9.99 keyboard he bought where the leds or some other function
didn't work with Linux. He found a Perl script to fix it.
He finally admitted the camera in his Android Razr Maxx was "slow".
IOW slow to take a picture from the time the take picture button was
pressed. After denying for the longest time there was a problem.
And even when he does post some useful nugget he ruins the post by
acting like a giddy child.
Years ago he used to be a reasonable poster but he has turned into a
complete ass in recent years.
He seems to crave attention and acceptance from the herd and walks on
egg shells so as not to offend them.

Imagine we were all in high school. On one side you have Porky Poaster,
chrisv and all of the other muppets who see sunlight once a year and
wear rags dating to the 1970's. They tend to be bitter, angry people due
to the fact that they have little to nothing going for them. On the
other, you have the athletic, good-looking people with excellent grades,
great hair and the latest in fashion who just also happen to be friendly
and sympathetic people. Which side would you CHOOSE to be on if you knew
that you'd be accepted as you are and weren't forced to change yourself
in any way? AssStorm picked the group with disco-era clothing which
hasn't been washed since that last orgy in 1979. Clothes filled with
unidentifiable stains to which little pubic hairs are attached which
also happen to emit an odour of cheap cologne and underarm sweat.

Very good analogy!

Kind of like these guys?

Loading Image...

[Silver Slimer]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Silver Slimer
Imagine we were all in high school. On one side you have Porky Poaster,
chrisv and all of the other muppets who see sunlight once a year and
wear rags dating to the 1970's. They tend to be bitter, angry people due
to the fact that they have little to nothing going for them. On the
other, you have the athletic, good-looking people with excellent grades,
great hair and the latest in fashion who just also happen to be friendly
and sympathetic people. Which side would you CHOOSE to be on if you knew
that you'd be accepted as you are and weren't forced to change yourself
in any way? AssStorm picked the group with disco-era clothing which
hasn't been washed since that last orgy in 1979. Clothes filled with
unidentifiable stains to which little pubic hairs are attached which
also happen to emit an odour of cheap cologne and underarm sweat.

Very good analogy!
Kind of like these guys?
http://www.abiword.org/~abi/expo99/expo_02_010_full.jpg

Those three are clearly the alpha males of the bunch.

[Ian Hilliard]

Post by Hadron

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it. It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.
Someone would have to be asshole of the highest order, and that would be
you Hilliard, to design, implement and test only on Linux, for example,
when your target is... not surprisingly, the Windows desktop.
And I can assure you that users do NOT like generic kludgy swing type
UIs. They want something responsive and native.
You really are a fuckwit.
next thing : I dont believe in MS. I use Debian.

It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter, I will try to educate you.

Most of the development that I manage is in C++. There are however a
large number of very good cross platform libraries to help with the
development. If the project uses a graphical front end, QT is a very
good place to start. Have a look at:

http://qt-project.org/

If your developers are experienced in using MFC, then the wxWidgets
library is a very good place to start. Have a look at:

https://www.wxwidgets.org/

For general programming, the Boost library is an excellent start. Parts
of the boost library are to be included in the next revision of the C++
standard (r11). Have a look at:

http://www.boost.org/

For writing communications code and web servers from scratch the POCO
library provides a good solid basis. This is at:

http://pocoproject.org

The Apache foundation develop most of their software to be cross
platform. Have a look at:

http://projects.apache.org

There is a lot of cross platform development around, the problem is that
the evangelists at Redmond don't want you knowing about it. Have a look at:

http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351958

--- Quote ---

Our mission is to establish Microsoft's platforms as the de facto
standards throughout the computer industry.... Working behind the scenes
to orchestrate "independent" praise of our technology, and damnation of
the enemy's, is a key evangelism function during the Slog. "Independent"
analyst's report should be issued, praising your technology and damning
the competitors (or ignoring them). "Independent" consultants should
write columns and articles, give conference presentations and moderate
stacked panels, all on our behalf (and setting them up as experts in the
new technology, available for just $200/hour). "Independent" academic
sources should be cultivated and quoted (and research money granted).
"Independent" courseware providers should start profiting from their
early involvement in our technology. Every possible source of leverage
should be sought and turned to our advantage.

--- End Quote ---

Regards,
Ian

[chrisv]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter,

You *must* know, by now, that it's both.

Post by Ian Hilliard
I will try to educate you.

Good luck to you. Filth like "Hadron" and "Ezekiel" aren't here to
learn. They're here to attack.

[flatfish+++]

Post by chrisv

Post by Ian Hilliard
It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter,

You *must* know, by now, that it's both.

Post by Ian Hilliard
I will try to educate you.

Good luck to you. Filth like "Hadron" and "Ezekiel" aren't here to
learn. They're here to attack.

Is cola where you learned to be an unrepentant shitheel who lies and
curses like a 3rd grader and makes bogus attacks based on your own
stupidity?

But Chris Ahlstrom likes him.

<snicker>

[DFS]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by chrisv

Post by Ian Hilliard
It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter,

You *must* know, by now, that it's both.

Post by Ian Hilliard
I will try to educate you.

Good luck to you. Filth like "Hadron" and "Ezekiel" aren't here to
learn. They're here to attack.

Is cola where you learned to be an unrepentant shitheel who lies and
curses like a 3rd grader and makes bogus attacks based on your own
stupidity?

But Chris Ahlstrom likes him.
<snicker>

ha! That he does.

Post by flatfish+++
chrisv: What a piece of shit liar you are, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: You're a piece of shit, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: You sure are a shitty and transparent liar, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: lying fsckwit Ezekiel
chrisv: Hey Ezekiel, you stupid piece of shit.
chrisv: What you can expect from lying assholes like "Ezekiel"
chrisv: bald-faced liars like "Ezekiel"
chrisv: Even his shitty pals, like "Ezekiel".
chrisv: that POS hypocrite "Ezekiel"
chrisv: Are you mentally retarded, cc?
chrisv: Apple is slimey. As are you, "Lloyd".
chrisv: "Ezekiel" is a piece of shit,
chrisv: DumFSck
chrisv: "Ezekiel" You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You are a filthy liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Lloyd" is simply a lying piece of shit,
chrisv: What transparent, idiotic, lying, immoral assholes, "Lloyd"
and "Ezekiel" are. What filth!
chrisv: How fscking obtuse do you want to be, "Ezekiel", you piece of
shit?
chrisv: The trolling jackass filth "Lloyd" displays his ignorance
again.
chrisv: Sounds like you're a piece of shit who attacks people for no
reason, "GreyCloud".... you fscking asshole?
chrisv: What a fscking asshole, you are, "GreyCloud".
chrisv: "GreyCloud" you piece of shit
chrisv: Having fun sucking-off that vile troll, "GreyCloud?
chrisv: You're a piece of shit again "GreyCloud"
chrisv: Poor "Ezekiel". You are a filthy liar, a dumbshit, and a
fscking asshole who makes a jackass of himself on a regular
basis.
chrisv: fscking filth like Flatfish
chrisv: "GreyCloud" You piece of shit.
chrisv: "Ezekiel" you stupid piece of shit?

chrisv is a raging kindergartener.

[flatfish+++]

Post by DFS

Post by flatfish+++

Post by chrisv

Post by Ian Hilliard
It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter,

You *must* know, by now, that it's both.

Post by Ian Hilliard
I will try to educate you.

Good luck to you. Filth like "Hadron" and "Ezekiel" aren't here to
learn. They're here to attack.

Is cola where you learned to be an unrepentant shitheel who lies and
curses like a 3rd grader and makes bogus attacks based on your own
stupidity?

But Chris Ahlstrom likes him.
<snicker>

ha! That he does.

Post by flatfish+++
chrisv: What a piece of shit liar you are, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: You're a piece of shit, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: You sure are a shitty and transparent liar, "Ezekiel".
chrisv: lying fsckwit Ezekiel
chrisv: Hey Ezekiel, you stupid piece of shit.
chrisv: What you can expect from lying assholes like "Ezekiel"
chrisv: bald-faced liars like "Ezekiel"
chrisv: Even his shitty pals, like "Ezekiel".
chrisv: that POS hypocrite "Ezekiel"
chrisv: Are you mentally retarded, cc?
chrisv: Apple is slimey. As are you, "Lloyd".
chrisv: "Ezekiel" is a piece of shit,
chrisv: DumFSck
chrisv: "Ezekiel" You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You are a filthy liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Ezekiel", You shameless fscking liar.
chrisv: "Lloyd" is simply a lying piece of shit,
chrisv: What transparent, idiotic, lying, immoral assholes, "Lloyd"
and "Ezekiel" are. What filth!
chrisv: How fscking obtuse do you want to be, "Ezekiel", you piece of
shit?
chrisv: The trolling jackass filth "Lloyd" displays his ignorance
again.
chrisv: Sounds like you're a piece of shit who attacks people for no
reason, "GreyCloud".... you fscking asshole?
chrisv: What a fscking asshole, you are, "GreyCloud".
chrisv: "GreyCloud" you piece of shit
chrisv: Having fun sucking-off that vile troll, "GreyCloud?
chrisv: You're a piece of shit again "GreyCloud"
chrisv: Poor "Ezekiel". You are a filthy liar, a dumbshit, and a
fscking asshole who makes a jackass of himself on a regular
basis.
chrisv: fscking filth like Flatfish
chrisv: "GreyCloud" You piece of shit.
chrisv: "Ezekiel" you stupid piece of shit?

chrisv is a raging kindergartener.

I still say he's a reverse troll pretending to be a Linux advocate
but really here to make Linux and Linux advocacy look bad.

It's really the only thing he does well.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Ian Hilliard

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Post by Ian Hilliard
It is said that ignorance can be cured with education, but there is no
cure for stupidity. So, with the hope that you only suffer from the
former and not the latter, I will try to educate you.
Most of the development that I manage is in C++. There are however a
large number of very good cross platform libraries to help with the
development. If the project uses a graphical front end, QT is a very
http://qt-project.org/
If your developers are experienced in using MFC, then the wxWidgets
https://www.wxwidgets.org/
For general programming, the Boost library is an excellent start. Parts
of the boost library are to be included in the next revision of the C++
http://www.boost.org/
For writing communications code and web servers from scratch the POCO
http://pocoproject.org
The Apache foundation develop most of their software to be cross
http://projects.apache.org

Some good links there.

Post by Ian Hilliard
There is a lot of cross platform development around, the problem is that
the evangelists at Redmond don't want you knowing about it.

Well, I doubt "Hadron" lives in Redmond. :-)

[flatfish+++]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Why don't you grow up already Chris Ahlstrom?

[Hadron]

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Why don't you grow up already Chris Ahlstrom?

Maybe Creepy "dunno" if Hilliard does the speccing, design,
implementation and testing before selecting a platform....

What a fuck knuckle Ahlstrom is these days.

[Ian Hilliard]

Post by Hadron

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Why don't you grow up already Chris Ahlstrom?

Maybe Creepy "dunno" if Hilliard does the speccing, design,
implementation and testing before selecting a platform....
What a fuck knuckle Ahlstrom is these days.

If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Ian

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Why don't you grow up already Chris Ahlstrom?

LOL. Rich irony from Flounder.

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron
Maybe Creepy "dunno" if Hilliard does the speccing, design,
implementation and testing before selecting a platform....
What a fuck knuckle Ahlstrom is these days.

<chuckle> (Rhymes with "knuckle").

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

[flatfish+++]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron

Post by flatfish+++

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

I really am a fuckwit.

Message corrected.

Why don't you grow up already Chris Ahlstrom?

LOL. Rich irony from Flounder.

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron
Maybe Creepy "dunno" if Hilliard does the speccing, design,
implementation and testing before selecting a platform....
What a fuck knuckle Ahlstrom is these days.

<chuckle> (Rhymes with "knuckle").

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

You growing up, my comment, has nothing to do with what Ian doesn't
know about engineering, Chris Ahlstrom.

[chrisv]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

LOL. Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

Of course, rather than taking the opportunity to learn from an expert,
the shitty trolls went on the attack, claiming that "everyone knows"
that negative feedback "stabilizes" the amplifier, and I could not
possibly be an engineer for claiming otherwise. Failing to understand
what they Googled-up on the subject, their "instant Google expertise"
failed them mightily.

Ignorant assholes.

[Ian Hilliard]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

LOL. Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

Such a statement is only wrong because of its incompleteness. Negative
feedback reduces the overall gain of an amplifying circuit and
compensates for distortion by cancelling out some of the input signal.
If an amplifier circuit through design or implementation problems has
end to end positive feedback, it can become unstable without negative
feedback.

Negative feedback can only have a moderating effect if there is positive
feedback in intermediate circuits within the amplifier chain. Under
these circumstances it is not uncommon for the instability to move
outside of the normal operating range. In audio amplifiers, this usually
then manifests itself as distortion, because the amplifier is being
fully driven producing RF.

Saying that negative feedback stabilises an amplifier is half an answer.
The problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Ian

[Peter Köhlmann]

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but
the preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it
is suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

LOL. Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

Such a statement is only wrong because of its incompleteness. Negative
feedback reduces the overall gain of an amplifying circuit and
compensates for distortion by cancelling out some of the input signal.
If an amplifier circuit through design or implementation problems has
end to end positive feedback, it can become unstable without negative
feedback.

It can also become unstable with too much negative feedback.
But it has to be way overdone to get it unstable.

It trades gain (as you have written) for better linearity and less
distortion, as all amplifying stages are not really linear

< snip >

Post by Ian Hilliard
Saying that negative feedback stabilises an amplifier is half an answer.

It is, but to say that positive feedback stabilises the amp is even less of
an answer, it gets quickly to the point where the amp starts oscillating.
In any given amp you will likely find both forms

[chrisv]

Post by Peter Köhlmann
It can also become unstable with too much negative feedback.
But it has to be way overdone to get it unstable.

I would not say that it has to be way overdone. It is common to find
circuits that fead-back even 100% of the signal. If someone hasn't
done the engineering to ensure that the circuit is stable under those
conditions...

[Hadron]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

LOL. Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

You#re a fucking idiot TRYING to play with words. Negative feedback
loops ARE introduced into circuits to provide stability and also to
provide noise reduction.

Such a statement is only wrong because of its incompleteness. Negative feedback
reduces the overall gain of an amplifying circuit and compensates for distortion
by cancelling out some of the input signal. If an amplifier circuit
through

Wrong. It doesnt "cancel out the input signal" whatsoever : it or a
directly attenuated multiple/fraction of it is subtracted from the
input. This is in no way cancelling anything - rather
modifying. consider a +/- sine wave sitting on top of a 5 v "carrier" or
bias. The negative feeback might only remove the carrier/bias or a portion of
it - the actual signal component modulated onto the carrier is in no way
affected.

design or implementation problems has end to end positive feedback, it can
become unstable without negative feedback.

You're being too nice. turdv is a fucking idiot that denied negative
feedback is used to stabilise systems. "Just the opposite in fact" is
his quote.

Negative feedback can only have a moderating effect if there is positive
feedback in intermediate circuits within the amplifier chain. Under these
circumstances it is not uncommon for the instability to move outside of the
normal operating range. In audio amplifiers, this usually then manifests itself
as distortion, because the amplifier is being fully driven producing
RF.

*garble* No surprise there.

Saying that negative feedback stabilises an amplifier is half an
answer. The

Of course but IT IS an answer as to why its used in most places.

problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no answer,
because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER. The fact that it "might be used for
something else" is immaterial.

Ian

[Ian Hilliard]

Post by Hadron

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Ian Hilliard
If you are doing your job correctly, requirement collection and
implementation is platform independent. Testing is done on multiple
platforms. It is common that the development is done on Windows, but the
preferred OS is only used for deployment, if testing proves that it is
suitable. It is really quite simple.

Apparently "Hadron" and Flounder know a lot more about engineering than
you do, Ian. :-D

LOL. Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

You#re a fucking idiot TRYING to play with words. Negative feedback
loops ARE introduced into circuits to provide stability and also to
provide noise reduction.

Negative feedback increases noise, because it feeds output noise back
into the input. There is no cancellation of noise, because it is random.

Post by Hadron

Such a statement is only wrong because of its incompleteness. Negative feedback
reduces the overall gain of an amplifying circuit and compensates for distortion
by cancelling out some of the input signal. If an amplifier circuit
through

Wrong. It doesnt "cancel out the input signal" whatsoever : it or a
directly attenuated multiple/fraction of it is subtracted from the
input. This is in no way cancelling anything - rather
modifying. consider a +/- sine wave sitting on top of a 5 v "carrier" or
bias. The negative feeback might only remove the carrier/bias or a portion of
it - the actual signal component modulated onto the carrier is in no way
affected.

Wrong, some of the output is fed in counter phase back to the input to
cancel some of the input signal. Learn some electronics, before spouting
off.

Post by Hadron

design or implementation problems has end to end positive feedback, it can
become unstable without negative feedback.

You're being too nice. turdv is a fucking idiot that denied negative
feedback is used to stabilise systems. "Just the opposite in fact" is
his quote.

Negative feedback can only have a moderating effect if there is positive
feedback in intermediate circuits within the amplifier chain. Under these
circumstances it is not uncommon for the instability to move outside of the
normal operating range. In audio amplifiers, this usually then manifests itself
as distortion, because the amplifier is being fully driven producing
RF.

*garble* No surprise there.

Saying that negative feedback stabilises an amplifier is half an
answer. The

Of course but IT IS an answer as to why its used in most places.

problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no answer,
because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER. The fact that it "might be used for
something else" is immaterial.

Negative feedback stabilises a system iff there is already positive
feedback. It is the positive feedback that causes the instability. A
well designed amplifier doesn't become unstable. The main reason for
negative feedback is that it is a quick and dirty way to compensate for
the non-linearity of the amplifier both in E & wt.

Ian

[chrisv]

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron
You#re a fucking idiot TRYING to play with words. Negative feedback
loops ARE introduced into circuits to provide stability

No, they are *not*. "Setting the gain" is *not* "providing
stability". They are *different things*.

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron
and also to provide noise reduction.

There is no cancellation of noise, because it is random.

Quack is *such* an *ignorant* asshole.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.
Apart from the fact that overdoing it will remove much gain, making more
amp-stages necessary (which will introduce additional noise and distortion)

You again try to imply that you are a "knowledgeable" man (after all, you
were at CERN and IBM [rolls eyes])

You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.
Apart from the fact that overdoing it will remove much gain, making more
amp-stages necessary (which will introduce additional noise and distortion)
You again try to imply that you are a "knowledgeable" man (after all, you
were at CERN and IBM [rolls eyes])
You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

Yup.

And Ian is absolutely right in attempt to clarify terms and meanings, and to
explain how there is more than one goal being effected by choosing the type
of feedback.

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick

Is that the sound of one "Hadron" fapping?

[Hadron]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.

Too much of ANYTHING breaks things, For crying out loud.

Do we have to go back to 1+1 == 2? For crying out loud.

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann
Apart from the fact that overdoing it will remove much gain, making more
amp-stages necessary (which will introduce additional noise and distortion)
You again try to imply that you are a "knowledgeable" man (after all, you
were at CERN and IBM [rolls eyes])

I was. I also DO have a EE Bsc... Admittedly from the 80s but even then
negative feedback was a staple of ANY engineering.

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann
You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.

I know more about Linux than you Kohlkopf. As I have repeatedly shown.

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

Yup.
And Ian is absolutely right in attempt to clarify terms and meanings, and to
explain how there is more than one goal being effected by choosing the type
of feedback.

He clarified nothing. What he DID do was, in a mealy mouthed, way show
turd to be a frothing idiot. But he had to cover that up with "only half
an answer".

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick

Is that the sound of one "Hadron" fapping?

Its probably the sound of you slurping pee pees you little weenie.

Negative feedback IS USED TO STABLISE SYSTEMS END OF STORY.

It is used for other things too including noise reduction.

turd was wrong and you're too much of a simpering little tit to admit
it.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Post by Hadron

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.

Too much of ANYTHING breaks things, For crying out loud.

Oh, the Hadron cop out

Post by Hadron
Do we have to go back to 1+1 == 2? For crying out loud.

It was claimed that negative feedback will make an amp more stable.
It does, but only to a certain point. The claim is too general, because it
does not mention the fact that it can make the circuit really unstable too

Post by Hadron

Post by Peter Köhlmann
Apart from the fact that overdoing it will remove much gain, making more
amp-stages necessary (which will introduce additional noise and distortion)
You again try to imply that you are a "knowledgeable" man (after all,
you were at CERN and IBM [rolls eyes])

I was.

And you were fired because you were too damn incompetent to sweep the
parking lots. If they even allowed you anywhere near those

Post by Hadron
I also DO have a EE Bsc... Admittedly from the 80s

You have nothing of that kind

Post by Hadron
but even then
negative feedback was a staple of ANY engineering.

Negative feedback is usually the easy way out. By far not the best. It is a
cheap solution. It is better to use a good design, good components and then
apply feedback sparingly

[chrisv]

Post by Hadron
I also DO have a EE Bsc... Admittedly from the 80s

Don't you wish that you were not a shameless, documented liar, so that
someone might believe you, shithead?

Post by Hadron
but even then negative feedback was a staple of ANY engineering.

Not to "provide stability", you ignorant asshole.

Why don't you just STFU when you don't know what you're talking about,
Quack? You won't find me spouting-off in the technical areas of
software design. Oh, that's right, you must *attack* your moral and
intellectual superiors, truth be damned.

[chrisv]

Post by chrisv

Post by Hadron
I also DO have a EE Bsc... Admittedly from the 80s

Don't you wish that you were not a shameless, documented liar, so that
someone might believe you, shithead?

Anyone who has been educated as an engineer (and is not a complete
lying piece of shit) would, at least, be sympathetic to my points.
They would not ridicule me, when I am technically correct. My
correction of Flathead's (incorrect) statements was correct. The
issue was not about setting gain, so that (tenuous) angle cannot be
relevant.

[chrisv]

Post by chrisv
Oh, that's right, you must *attack* your moral and
intellectual superiors, truth be damned.

You, and your filthy friend, the "instant Google expert" Ezekreep.

Is that bald-faced lying Kreep still twisting my words into "negative
feedback reduces the stability of an amplifier" to attack me?

Why use my actual words, when they can be "interpreted" into something
not correct, right? So "honest" of the Kreep.

At least you like him, eh, Quack?

[DFS]

Post by chrisv
Oh, that's right, you must *attack* your moral and
intellectual superiors, truth be damned.

turd, you're intellectually superior to Dumb Willie, but that's about it.

[flatfish+++]

Post by DFS

Post by chrisv
Oh, that's right, you must *attack* your moral and
intellectual superiors, truth be damned.

turd, you're intellectually superior to Dumb Willie, but that's about it.

So is 7, and that ain't saying much either.

[chrisv]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Hadron
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick

Is that the sound of one "Hadron" fapping?

The Quack asshole has real "issues" with anyone who is better-
educated and/or more experienced than he is.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by chrisv

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Hadron
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick
pretentious dick

Is that the sound of one "Hadron" fapping?

The Quack asshole has real "issues" with anyone who is better-
educated and/or more experienced than he is.

He hate everyone?
--
We have the flu. I don't know if this particular strain has an official
name, but if it does, it must be something like "Martian Death Flu". You
may have had it yourself. The main symptom is that you wish you had another
setting on your electric blanket, up past "HIGH", that said "ELECTROCUTION".
Another symptom is that you cease brushing your teeth, because (a)
your teeth hurt, and (b) you lack the strength. Midway through the brushing
process, you'd have to lie down in front of the sink to rest for a couple
of hours, and rivulets of toothpaste foam would dribble sideways out of your
mouth, eventually hardening into crusty little toothpaste stalagmites that
would bond your head permanently to the bathroom floor, which is how the
police would find you.
You know the kind of flu I'm talking about.
-- Dave Barry, "Molecular Homicide"

[Silver Slimer]

Post by Peter Köhlmann
You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

LOL @ the slightly demented cow part.

[GreyCloud]

Post by Peter Köhlmann
You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

Heh. OT, I heard a funny senior joke today:

An old man was at the local Senior center, and the host was giving
oration on safety and fire drills. He asked what steps should be taken
in case of a fire. The old man said "Big fucking ones..." which
obviously wasn't the correct answer.

[chrisv]

Post by Hadron
Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

Indeed, I would say that Ian was being overly generous, Quack.

*Everything* I've said on this issue has been correct, you *fscking*
asshole.

[GreyCloud]

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.

Unless of course you are wanting unity gain for the purposes of current
drive. A small resistor from output to input usually accomplishes this.
Today most of this is done with Op amps anyway. I've seen a wire
attached to the output to input to achieve unity gain on certain types
of op amps.

Post by Peter Köhlmann
Apart from the fact that overdoing it will remove much gain, making more
amp-stages necessary (which will introduce additional noise and distortion)
You again try to imply that you are a "knowledgeable" man (after all, you
were at CERN and IBM [rolls eyes])
You have about as much of an idea about electronics as you have about linux.
Any slightly demented cow knows more about quantum physics than you do about
linux or electronics. You just "know" what google tells you, and because you
are a incredibly stupid prick don't understand even 1% of that

[Hadron]

Post by GreyCloud

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.

Unless of course you are wanting unity gain for the purposes of current
drive. A small resistor from output to input usually accomplishes this.
Today most of this is done with Op amps anyway. I've seen a wire
attached to the output to input to achieve unity gain on certain types
of op amps.

None of which alters the FACT that negative feedback IS USED TO
STABILISE SYSTEMS. All sorts of systems. Of course if it was configured
by an idiot (ie Peter Koehlmann) it would probably blow up the system
too.....

That wanker Kohlmann is blowing hot air about something he also knows
nothing about.

The bottom line is that turdv denied NF systems maintain stability.

He is an idiot and needs flushing.

Quote below :

[GreyCloud]

Post by Hadron

Post by GreyCloud

Post by Peter Köhlmann

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard
problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Stop being such a pretentious dick. negative feedback stabilising
systems is in NO WAY A HALF ANSWER.

It is. Too much negative feeback will make the circuit unstable.

Unless of course you are wanting unity gain for the purposes of current
drive. A small resistor from output to input usually accomplishes this.
Today most of this is done with Op amps anyway. I've seen a wire
attached to the output to input to achieve unity gain on certain types
of op amps.

None of which alters the FACT that negative feedback IS USED TO
STABILISE SYSTEMS. All sorts of systems. Of course if it was configured
by an idiot (ie Peter Koehlmann) it would probably blow up the system
too.....

The problem here is what frequency are we talking about?
Is it a UHF amp, Microwave amp, audio amp?
As the frequency goes up, new problems arise and a different engineering
discipline is needed.
Today, you just buy the chip that does the job plus the data sheet that
comes with it.

Post by Hadron
That wanker Kohlmann is blowing hot air about something he also knows
nothing about.
The bottom line is that turdv denied NF systems maintain stability.
He is an idiot and needs flushing.

[chrisv]

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by chrisv
Sure. Like when Flathead claimed that negative feedback is
added into the amplifier circuitry "in order to maintain stability"
and that the amp "will go unstable" if there's not enough negative
feedback. Both flat-out *wrong* statements, that I corrected.

Such a statement is only wrong because of its incompleteness.

I would say it's flat-out wrong, considering the context. The fact
that the amount of negative feedback can be used to set the circuit's
gain (and thus make the gain unsusceptible to variations in the
amplifier's open-loop gain) does not mean it is "stable".

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by chrisv

Negative feedback is added into the amplifier circuitry in order
to maintain stability.
Too much and you will hear it.
Not enough and the amp will go unstable.

There's a couple of flat-out wrong statements in there. Certainly,
the last one is indefensible, in the context of audio amplifiers.

The first one is also wrong under the technical definition of
"stability" (it does *not* mean having "stable gain", despite Googled
examples of people misusing it that way).

Post by Ian Hilliard
Negative
feedback reduces the overall gain of an amplifying circuit and
compensates for distortion by cancelling out some of the input signal.

One of the "many benefits" that I alluded-to is reducing distortion,
yes.

Post by Ian Hilliard
If an amplifier circuit through design or implementation problems has
end to end positive feedback, it can become unstable without negative
feedback.

Of course, no one has claimed that the _only_ thing that can make an
amplifier unstable is (too much) negative feedback (in an amplifier
that is not unconditionally stable).

Post by Ian Hilliard
Negative feedback can only have a moderating effect if there is positive
feedback in intermediate circuits within the amplifier chain. Under
these circumstances it is not uncommon for the instability to move
outside of the normal operating range. In audio amplifiers, this usually
then manifests itself as distortion, because the amplifier is being
fully driven producing RF.

High-frequency oscillation. Yes, and the more negative feedback, the
greater the risk of it occurring. My point all-along.

Post by Ian Hilliard
Saying that negative feedback stabilises an amplifier is half an answer.

It's half an answer if one generously accepts the lay person's
"stabilization of gain" point.

I might be inclined to such generosity, were I not under attack by
vicious assholes bent on attacking me (the guy with the BSEE) as
"clueless" and a "liar" regarding my education.

Post by Ian Hilliard
The problem with half answers is that they can be more dangerous than no
answer, because they can lull one into the belief that they have the answer.

Like I said, they are not here to learn. They are here to attack.

[DFS]

Post by Ian Hilliard
There is a lot of cross platform development around, the problem is that
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351958
--- Quote ---
Our mission is to establish Microsoft's platforms as the de facto
standards throughout the computer industry.... Working behind the scenes
to orchestrate "independent" praise of our technology, and damnation of
the enemy's, is a key evangelism function during the Slog. "Independent"
analyst's report should be issued, praising your technology and damning
the competitors (or ignoring them). "Independent" consultants should
write columns and articles, give conference presentations and moderate
stacked panels, all on our behalf (and setting them up as experts in the
new technology, available for just $200/hour). "Independent" academic
sources should be cultivated and quoted (and research money granted).
"Independent" courseware providers should start profiting from their
early involvement in our technology. Every possible source of leverage
should be sought and turned to our advantage.
--- End Quote ---

That's nothing compared to various lowlifes in the Linux "community":


Fraud 7: "Appile should be actively barred from all schools"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7cbc23034609637f?hl=en&dmode=source


Marti: "Non-Free proprietary applications should not be included in
*any* GNU/Linux distribution by default."
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/b50fa67489ff74a9?hl=en&dmode=source


"The government has had a history of desiring more than one source for
their systems and Windows shouldn't be a choice."
#22 at http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=43629.0


mlw: "It has to be Linux or BSD....or something, just get rid of
Windows. It doesn't matter, Mac, BSD, or Linux, geez, ANYTHING but
Windows!"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/bd7ba1c950da917b?hl=en&dmode=source


"windows shouldn't be a choice for anyone mang"
http://www.irclog.org/freenode/suse/2006-06-19/page4.html


"I'm a Unix/Linux guy... MS Windows should not be allowed in a business
environment."
http://www.thegearpage.net/board//showpost.php?p=15072408&postcount=8


"Microsoft should not be allowed to bake Windows into silicon and CMOS
(or equivalents)."
http://techrights.org/2013/03/12/nice-work-if-you-can-get-it/



Such proponents of "freedom and choice"...

[Silver Slimer]

Post by DFS
Fraud 7: "Appile should be actively barred from all schools"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7cbc23034609637f?hl=en&dmode=source

I don't entirely disagree with it. Schools would benefit from having
students use free software in lieu of proprietary solutions. Not only
would it allow the more curious users to take a look at the code but it
would also allow users who want to continue using some of the software
to do so at home, free of charge. Schools have an objective of
integrating all students of all social statuses and incomes and free
software allows that. Apple products do not cater to the poor at all and
definitely limit how far a curious user can go when it comes to
discovering the software.

Post by DFS
Marti: "Non-Free proprietary applications should not be included in
*any* GNU/Linux distribution by default."
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/b50fa67489ff74a9?hl=en&dmode=source

It's not a bad idea and many distributions exclude proprietary software
for legal or philosophical reasons. However, these proprietary solutions
should be EASILY available to the user if he chooses to install them
rather than completely barred the way Stallman advocates.

Post by DFS
Such proponents of "freedom and choice"...

Ah, point well made.

[Nobody]

Post by Hadron

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it. It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.
Someone would have to be asshole of the highest order, and that would be
you Hilliard, to design, implement and test only on Linux, for example,
when your target is... not surprisingly, the Windows desktop.
And I can assure you that users do NOT like generic kludgy swing type
UIs. They want something responsive and native.
You really are a fuckwit.
next thing : I dont believe in MS. I use Debian.

Did you end your diatribe by admitting to being an "asshole of the
highest order?"

[William Poaster]

Post by Nobody

Post by Hadron

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number of different
platforms, using a number of different tools, on a number of different
processors to detect any errors. The actual end platform is then
selected based on a series of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER design,
implementation, testing and, probably, user acceptance tests. What an
idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your ignorance in
public. In the world of true software engineering, platform is not a
requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go into
it. It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs like Swing
etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable offing however
generally you are then programming to the lowest common denominator
BEFORE we even start to talk about user training, infrastructure and
support.
Someone would have to be asshole of the highest order, and that would be
you Hilliard, to design, implement and test only on Linux, for example,
when your target is... not surprisingly, the Windows desktop.
And I can assure you that users do NOT like generic kludgy swing type
UIs. They want something responsive and native.
You really are a fuckwit.
next thing : I dont believe in MS. I use Debian.

Did you end your diatribe by admitting to being an "asshole of the
highest order?"

Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D

"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer."
From: Hadron <***@googlemail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

"I have to update my Milestone from XP."
Hadron - alt.os.linux.ubuntu
Message-ID: <iapdfj$kv3$***@news.eternal-september.org>

[Nobody]

Post by William Poaster

Post by Nobody

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their
hands. I guess that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is
a very useful link, which should help them to become
useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318

Ian

Post by William Poaster

Post by Nobody

Post by Hadron

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
It's MCSE. And I see you're not posting from your Windows job.
Good one, Bighead!
"All the code that my teams produce is tested on a number
of different platforms, using a number of different tools,
on a number of different processors to detect any errors.
The actual end platform is then selected based on a series
of tests."
LMAO!

Yup. The "legend" actually pics the deployment platform AFTER
design, implementation, testing and, probably, user
acceptance tests. What an idiot Hilliard is.

I love how you Microsoft True Believers love to display your
ignorance in public. In the world of true software engineering,
platform is not a requirement. It is a dependent variable.

Total and utter fucking nonsense for so many reasons I wont go
into it. It might be so for your dancing penguin applet.
Yes, yes languages like Java and the platform independent UIs
like Swing etc do make real cross platform a sometimes viable
offing however generally you are then programming to the lowest
common denominator BEFORE we even start to talk about user
training, infrastructure and support.
Someone would have to be asshole of the highest order, and that
would be you Hilliard, to design, implement and test only on
Linux, for example, when your target is... not surprisingly, the
Windows desktop.
And I can assure you that users do NOT like generic kludgy swing
type UIs. They want something responsive and native.
You really are a fuckwit.
next thing : I dont believe in MS. I use Debian.

Did you end your diatribe by admitting to being an "asshole of the
highest order?"

Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D
"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer." From: Hadron
"I have to update my Milestone from XP." Hadron -

Which means he uses Debian to "design, implement, and test only on
Linux... when [his]target is...the Windows desktop."

He wrote "someone would have to be an "asshole of the highest order" to
do that.

Great self-nuke!

[DFS]

Post by William Poaster
Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D

Only lying asshole I see here is you, Dumb Willie.

Post by William Poaster
"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer."
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Hadron didn't say that, you lying piece of shit.

Post by William Poaster
"I have to update my Milestone from XP."
Hadron - alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Android Linux wasn't up to the job at the time.

[Steve Carroll]

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D

Only lying asshole I see here is you, Dumb Willie.

Post by William Poaster
"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer."
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Hadron didn't say that, you lying piece of shit.

Hadron is a lying piece of shit so it all comes out in the wash.

[Hadron]

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D

Only lying asshole I see here is you, Dumb Willie.

Post by William Poaster
"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer."
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

I was. As were/are you.

Post by DFS
Hadron didn't say that, you lying piece of shit.

Dont confuse poor Dumb Willy.

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
"I have to update my Milestone from XP."

I did.

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
Hadron - alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Android Linux wasn't up to the job at the time.

I dont know why Willy posts. He'e easily proven to be a liar time and
time again.

[DFS]

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
Surely a "Lying Asshole of the Highest Order?" (LAHO for short) :-D

Only lying asshole I see here is you, Dumb Willie.

Post by William Poaster
"I'm a long term Windows user and programmer."
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu

I was. As were/are you.

'was' being the operative word.

Post by Hadron

Post by DFS
Hadron didn't say that, you lying piece of shit.

Dont confuse poor Dumb Willy.

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
"I have to update my Milestone from XP."

I did.

Post by DFS

Post by William Poaster
Hadron - alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Android Linux wasn't up to the job at the time.

I dont know why Willy posts. He'e easily proven to be a liar time and
time again.

Dumb Willie (Nov 2008)

"I don't (unfortunately) have a direct link for this, but in 2005
Microsoft Executives deposed in **sworn testimony** before Courts, &
in every quarterly SEC filing since then, that Linux users made up
over 17% of all Internet users with a growth rate of >3% per annum."

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/e0740eb324f23f6e



He posted a similar lie 11 other times.

[Silver Slimer]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318

Who are these unemployed MCSE's exactly?

[chrisv]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch.

So is mental illness, which appears to afflict a good number of the
cola trolls.

Did you know that "Flatfish" thinks that Linus regrets "giving Linux
away for free"?

Guffaw. As if Linux would have succeeded *anything* like it has, if
it was not Free software.

Flathead's stupid, shitty pal "Hadron" has made the same ridiculous
claim.

"Ezekiel" and "DFS" like them both, and would never denounce their
idiocy and their lies.

Post by Ian Hilliard
So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318

Here's a couple more.

https://www.google.com/#q=help%20for%20mentally%20ill

https://www.google.com/#q=help%20for%20pathological%20liars

[Benny]

Post by chrisv
"Ezekiel" and "DFS" like them both, and would never denounce their
idiocy and their lies.

Show a single lie from Ezekiel or DFS. Don't forget the Message-ID.

[7]

Post by Benny

Post by chrisv
"Ezekiel" and "DFS" like them both, and would never denounce their
idiocy and their lies.

Show a single lie from Ezekiel or DFS. Don't forget the Message-ID.

Liar!!!

Show one single post from yourself or Ezekiel or DFS that isn't in itself
a trolling lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

[chrisv]

Post by 7

Post by Benny
Show a single lie from Ezekiel or DFS. Don't forget the Message-ID.

Yeah, let's pretend that countless examples have not already been
given. Let's pretend that all four of the trolls mentioned in my last
post are not shameless, documented liars.

Post by 7
Liar!!!
Show one single post from yourself or Ezekiel or DFS that isn't in itself
a trolling lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They may not "lie" in every post, but finding on-topic posts from them
that are honest, fair, and reasonable might be a challenge.

[Sinister Midget]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?

sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318

Post by Ian Hilliard
Ian

Don't assume the trolls are employable. Or, for that matter, that nutters
like Snot want to get off of public assistance to better themselves.

[Snit]

Post by Ian Hilliard

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?

sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=1
9318

Post by Ian Hilliard
Ian

Don't assume the trolls are employable. Or, for that matter, that nutters
like Snot want to get off of public assistance to better themselves.

More baseless insults and attacks.

It truly is amazing how little reasoning and logic is shown by COLA folks...
keeps this place interesting.
--
* Mint MATE: Trash, Panel, Menu:

* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?

* Mint KDE working with folders:

* Mint KDE creating files:

* Mint KDE help:

* Mint KDE general navigation:

* Mint / LibreOffice:

* Win 8 / Word 2013:

* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:

[7]

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

Nice - I wish I had that advise 10 years earlier.

Still, how will the Internet trolls get their reputation from
doing community work with Linux and open source?

The only one doing any kind of community work has so far
been the empty vessel DFS re-posting Ubuntu Linux 14.04 bug reports.

Even MSCE's would get sacked for being such empty slackers surely?

[DFS]

Post by 7

Post by Ian Hilliard
It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess
that unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which
should help them to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

Nice - I wish I had that advise 10 years earlier.
Still, how will the Internet trolls get their reputation from
doing community work with Linux and open source?
The only one doing any kind of community work has so far
been the empty vessel DFS re-posting Ubuntu Linux 14.04 bug reports.

Nothing was reposted.


No sardine for you, walrus.

Post by 7
Even MSCE's would get sacked for being such empty slackers surely?

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by 7
The only one doing any kind of community work has so far
been the empty vessel DFS re-posting Ubuntu Linux 14.04 bug reports.

LOL

[Hadron]

It appears that some people have too much time on their hands. I guess that
unemployment is a bitch. So, here is a very useful link, which should help them
to become useful members of society.
http://opensource.com/business/14/4/open-source-job-skills?sc_cid=70160000000cVxvAAE&elq=7dd4d12255494fd8bd1b3ae1c8adf9a8&elqCampaignId=19318
Ian

That would be you, Creepy, Kohlman, turd etc. All who make their money
with Windows.