Hawaii and Pele

[p***@hotmail.com]

From the _New York Times_, May 21, 2018:

When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this month,
triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting forests ablaze,
and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a retired
schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve been in her
backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on when she moved
here from Northern California. “In that time I learned that Pele created
this island in all its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”

The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

Mo-hole! Mo-hole! A driller's life for me!

[Peter Trei]

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this month,
triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting forests ablaze,
and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a retired
schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve been in her
backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on when she moved
here from Northern California. “In that time I learned that Pele created
this island in all its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.

Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that the
Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on his study
of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise based on observed rates
of eruption.

pt

[Mike Dworetsky]

Post by Peter Trei

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this
month, triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting
forests ablaze, and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their
home. ...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a
retired schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve
been in her backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on
when she moved here from Northern California. “In that time I
learned that Pele created this island in all its stunning beauty.
It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that
the Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on
his study
of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise based on
observed rates of eruption.
pt

Wasn't this the husband of Emma Hamilton, who became the mistress of Horatio
Nelson? So we have Age of the Earth geology, stirring naval warfare
history, and Georgian era sex scandals, all in one package.

[Peter Trei]

Post by Mike Dworetsky

Post by Peter Trei

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this
month, triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting
forests ablaze, and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their
home. ...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a
retired schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve
been in her backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on
when she moved here from Northern California. “In that time I
learned that Pele created this island in all its stunning beauty.
It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that
the Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on
his study
of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise based on
observed rates of eruption.
pt

Wasn't this the husband of Emma Hamilton, who became the mistress of Horatio
Nelson? So we have Age of the Earth geology, stirring naval warfare
history, and Georgian era sex scandals, all in one package.

The very same. An interesting life.

...and it wasn't just Nelson with whom she had an adventure - how she got
hooked up with William is quite the story in itself...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma,_Lady_Hamilton

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Mike Dworetsky

Post by Peter Trei

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this
month, triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting
forests ablaze, and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their
home. ...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a
retired schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve
been in her backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on
when she moved here from Northern California. “In that time I
learned that Pele created this island in all its stunning beauty.
It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that
the Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on
his study
of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise based on
observed rates of eruption.
pt

Wasn't this the husband of Emma Hamilton, who became the mistress of Horatio
Nelson? So we have Age of the Earth geology, stirring naval warfare
history, and Georgian era sex scandals, all in one package.

Apparently so. He was in a position to observe Vesuvius because
he was a British envoy to Naples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hamilton_(diplomat)

And yes, it would make an INN-teresting historical series.

[p***@hotmail.com]

Post by Peter Trei

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”
...
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this month,
triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting forests ablaze,
and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a retired
schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve been in her
backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on when she moved
here from Northern California. “In that time I learned that Pele created
this island in all its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that the
Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on his study
of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise based on observed rates
of eruption.

What was his time estimate?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by p***@hotmail.com

Post by Peter Trei

When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month, many
people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward the
drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as “the
woman who devours the earth” — usually dwe lls.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “T
here’s nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her
will.” ... Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom,
annexation by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating
the Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation of Pele
has not only persisted through the centuries, but seems to be
strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption of Hawaii’s
volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this
mont h, triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting
forests abla ze, and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, e
xpress reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava
destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin , 71, a
retired schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow.
“I†™ve been in her backyard for 30 years,” she reflected,
doing the math on when s he moved here from Northern California.
“In that time I learned that Pel e created this island in all
its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring p rocess of
destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out
lava, see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock,
adding to the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic
islands of widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire
volume of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then
comparing the size of the island to the observed accumulation of
new material over a person's lifetime would give some measure of
how old the island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that
the Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on
his study of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise
based on observed rates of eruption.

What was his time estimate?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[tried posting this earlier]

Don't know if he gave a number.

There are quotes in
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00033796900200191

"He talks of' a most remote antiquity' and events
'to be so ancient, as to be far out of the reach of history.' "

PT

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by p***@hotmail.com

Post by Peter Trei

When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month, many
people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward the
drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as “the
woman who devours the earth” — usually dwe lls.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “T
here’s nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her
will.” ... Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom,
annexation by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating
the Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation of Pele
has not only persisted through the centuries, but seems to be
strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption of Hawaii’s
volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this
mont h, triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting
forests abla ze, and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, e
xpress reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava
destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin , 71, a
retired schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow.
“I†™ve been in her backyard for 30 years,” she reflected,
doing the math on when s he moved here from Northern California.
“In that time I learned that Pel e created this island in all
its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring p rocess of
destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out
lava, see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock,
adding to the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic
islands of widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire
volume of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then
comparing the size of the island to the observed accumulation of
new material over a person's lifetime would give some measure of
how old the island would have to be.

No just Hawaiians.
Sir William Hamilton (1730-1803) was one of the first to propose that
the Earth was far older than Biblical accounts suggested, based on
his study of Vesuvius, estimating the time it would take to rise
based on observed rates of eruption.

What was his time estimate?
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[tried posting this earlier]
Don't know if he gave a number.
There are quotes in
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00033796900200191
"He talks of' a most remote antiquity' and events
'to be so ancient, as to be far out of the reach of history.' "

What it boils down to is "much longer ago than 4004 BC."

[Robert Carnegie]

What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

I bet it varies greatly by where one is on the Big Island. As
I recall (I don't have the relevent map handy), you're a lot less
likely to experience an unrequested lava excess in the north
west of the island than the south east.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

I bet it varies greatly by where one is on the Big Island. As
I recall (I don't have the relevent map handy), you're a lot less
likely to experience an unrequested lava excess in the north
west of the island than the south east.

There are no currently active volcanoes on any of the islands except
Hawaii itself.

The big island has five and a half volcanoes -- Kohala, Hualalai,
Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Kilauea, and an undersea one just off the
southeastern coast called Loihi. Kohala and Mauna Kea are extinct,
Hualali is nominally active but hasn't erupted since 1801, and the
other three are all still very much alive.

Mauna Loa (the world's largest active volcano) tends to be quiescent
for fairly extended periods (by human standards, not by geological
ones) and is currently dormant.

Kileauea has been erupting for more than thirty years, though until
recently it's been relatively low-key about it. Though the former
inhabitants of Kalapana might disagree with me about that -- their
town was destroyed in 1990.

I would guess that volcano insurance for anywhere north of Hilo on the
eastern side of the island, or Waikoloa on the western side, is cheap
-- though since Waikoloa is surrounded by a lava field left by the
1801 eruption of Hualalai, I may be over-optimistic about the western
side. And anywhere south of Hilo on either side should be wary of
Mauna Loa. Still, you won't have anything to worry about on the
slopes of Mauna Kea or Kohala.

Mauna Loa is about due, though, and the odds are that the next
eruption will dump lava toward the Kona coast; the coffee plantations
there are probably paying a fortune in insurance -- if they have any.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

I bet it varies greatly by where one is on the Big Island. As
I recall (I don't have the relevent map handy), you're a lot less
likely to experience an unrequested lava excess in the north
west of the island than the south east.

There are no currently active volcanoes on any of the islands except
Hawaii itself.
The big island has five and a half volcanoes -- Kohala, Hualalai,
Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Kilauea, and an undersea one just off the
southeastern coast called Loihi. Kohala and Mauna Kea are extinct,
Hualali is nominally active but hasn't erupted since 1801, and the
other three are all still very much alive.
Mauna Loa (the world's largest active volcano) tends to be quiescent
for fairly extended periods (by human standards, not by geological
ones) and is currently dormant.
Kileauea has been erupting for more than thirty years, though until
recently it's been relatively low-key about it. Though the former
inhabitants of Kalapana might disagree with me about that -- their
town was destroyed in 1990.
I would guess that volcano insurance for anywhere north of Hilo on the
eastern side of the island, or Waikoloa on the western side, is cheap
-- though since Waikoloa is surrounded by a lava field left by the
1801 eruption of Hualalai, I may be over-optimistic about the western
side. And anywhere south of Hilo on either side should be wary of
Mauna Loa. Still, you won't have anything to worry about on the
slopes of Mauna Kea or Kohala.
Mauna Loa is about due, though, and the odds are that the next
eruption will dump lava toward the Kona coast; the coffee plantations
there are probably paying a fortune in insurance -- if they have any.

Sounds like the caffeine junkies should be stocking up and getting ready
to short Starbucks on the stock market. :)

[Peter Trei]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

I bet it varies greatly by where one is on the Big Island. As
I recall (I don't have the relevent map handy), you're a lot less
likely to experience an unrequested lava excess in the north
west of the island than the south east.

There are no currently active volcanoes on any of the islands except
Hawaii itself.
The big island has five and a half volcanoes -- Kohala, Hualalai,
Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Kilauea, and an undersea one just off the
southeastern coast called Loihi. Kohala and Mauna Kea are extinct,
Hualali is nominally active but hasn't erupted since 1801, and the
other three are all still very much alive.
Mauna Loa (the world's largest active volcano) tends to be quiescent
for fairly extended periods (by human standards, not by geological
ones) and is currently dormant.
Kileauea has been erupting for more than thirty years, though until
recently it's been relatively low-key about it. Though the former
inhabitants of Kalapana might disagree with me about that -- their
town was destroyed in 1990.
I would guess that volcano insurance for anywhere north of Hilo on the
eastern side of the island, or Waikoloa on the western side, is cheap
-- though since Waikoloa is surrounded by a lava field left by the
1801 eruption of Hualalai, I may be over-optimistic about the western
side. And anywhere south of Hilo on either side should be wary of
Mauna Loa. Still, you won't have anything to worry about on the
slopes of Mauna Kea or Kohala.
Mauna Loa is about due, though, and the odds are that the next
eruption will dump lava toward the Kona coast; the coffee plantations
there are probably paying a fortune in insurance -- if they have any.

Sounds like the caffeine junkies should be stocking up and getting ready
to short Starbucks on the stock market. :)

Kona coffee is such a small part of the market (1000 tons/year vs 9 million
worldwide) that its loss won't move it much. You might go long on Blue
Mountain, though.

pt

[Mike Van Pelt]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
I would guess that volcano insurance for anywhere north of Hilo on the
eastern side of the island, or Waikoloa on the western side, is cheap
-- though since Waikoloa is surrounded by a lava field left by the
1801 eruption of Hualalai, I may be over-optimistic about the western
side. And anywhere south of Hilo on either side should be wary of
Mauna Loa. Still, you won't have anything to worry about on the
slopes of Mauna Kea or Kohala.

Ginny and I watch on HGTV (I think) show about buying
houses in Hawaii. For the big island, they have mentioned
that the USGS has an offical Volcano Hazard Map. I'd be
surprised if insurance rates weren't pegged to this map.

Ah, I found it online....

Loading Image...

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
I would guess that volcano insurance for anywhere north of Hilo on the
eastern side of the island, or Waikoloa on the western side, is cheap
-- though since Waikoloa is surrounded by a lava field left by the
1801 eruption of Hualalai, I may be over-optimistic about the western
side. And anywhere south of Hilo on either side should be wary of
Mauna Loa. Still, you won't have anything to worry about on the
slopes of Mauna Kea or Kohala.

Ginny and I watch an HGTV (I think) show about buying
houses in Hawaii. For the big island, they have mentioned
that the USGS has an offical Volcano Hazard Map. I'd be
surprised if insurance rates weren't pegged to this map.
Ah, I found it online....
http://lureofhawaii.com/images/volcanohazard.jpg

Hey, thanks!

That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

[Kevrob]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

Kevin R

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

Hellscape =/= Hellmouth

Which doesn't mean they HAVEN'T. But I'm not aware of any.

[Kevrob]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

Hellscape =/= Hellmouth
Which doesn't mean they HAVEN'T. But I'm not aware of any.

One has to be careful. The beaches on Oahu are filled with
Healthy Young Women who might be Slayer-candidates, after all.

Kevin R

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Debra Dunbar's Amber, a half-elf, half-succubus, ended up in a threesome
with Pele in _Sins Of The Flesh_. She (Amber) is able to use the energy
to reverse a blight on the islands.

[Leo Sgouros]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Debra Dunbar's Amber, a half-elf, half-succubus, ended up in a threesome
with Pele in _Sins Of The Flesh_. She (Amber) is able to use the energy
to reverse a blight on the islands.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

SportFootballNews & Comment
Pele collapses: Brazil football legend hospitalised due to ‘severe exhaustion’
Pele – widely regarded as the greatest footballer of all-time – “has undergone a series of tests which appear to point to severe exhaustion”

Luke Brown @lukedbrown Friday 19 January 2018 14:14 GMT

Just thought I should mention it.
Does he know he is named after a gurl? ;-)

[Kevrob]

Post by Leo Sgouros

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Debra Dunbar's Amber, a half-elf, half-succubus, ended up in a threesome
with Pele in _Sins Of The Flesh_. She (Amber) is able to use the energy
to reverse a blight on the islands.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

SportFootballNews & Comment
Pele collapses: Brazil football legend hospitalised due to ‘severe exhaustion’
Pele – widely regarded as the greatest footballer of all-time – “has undergone a series of tests which appear to point to severe exhaustion”
Just thought I should mention it.
Does he know he is named after a gurl? ;-)

If by "gurl" you mean "goalkeeper José Lino."

https://preview.tinyurl.com/Bile-Pele OR

https://tinyurl.com/Bile-Pele

which resolves to a page from Pele's (the footballer's)
autobiography:

https://books.google.com/books?id=NalAgJSnEUUC&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=Bil%C3%A9+goalkeeper&source=bl&ots=sysK4H4ywV&sig=FDbEaj1npEZNvV7Ex-x1XDjChOU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjh0bLAq6HbAhXxwVkKHctXBg84ChDoAQhAMAQ#v=onepage&q=Bil%C3%A9%20goalkeeper&f=false

There's an accent over the footballer's final vowel,
so Pele and Pelé aren't actually identical.

Kevin R

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

The Hawaiians are very definite about Pele being female. No ambiguity
whatsoever. She's straight, too, and has been known to take an
interest in handsome young men.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

The Hawaiians are very definite about Pele being female. No ambiguity
whatsoever. She's straight, too, and has been known to take an
interest in handsome young men.

A common hobby among gods.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

The Hawaiians are very definite about Pele being female. No ambiguity
whatsoever. She's straight, too, and has been known to take an
interest in handsome young men.

These days, calling a female member of Equity
an actress can give offence. I don't know if it's
the same for supernatural beings - and I suppose
you've considered this carefully... and so have
the Hawaiians.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Now I'm remembering a cartoon from long ago (New Yorker, maybe?)
showing the inhabitants of a tropical island watching the local
volcano spouting an exaltation of fireworks. "Whatever the gods
are, they aren't angry."

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Now I'm remembering a cartoon from long ago (New Yorker, maybe?)
showing the inhabitants of a tropical island watching the local
volcano spouting an exaltation of fireworks. "Whatever the gods
are, they aren't angry."

It's an Aadams:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s57ISZAyJXI/RzFmz-ZEItI/AAAAAAAAAdk/CpALaAMYSWs/

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kevrob

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
That Zone 2 and 3 area in the southwest is the Kona coast. The
eastern half of the Kilauea Zone 1 is the present-day hellscape you
see on the news.

Have any Slayers started showing up....?

OBSF, one of the Mercy Thompson books featured a volcano god.

Now I'm remembering a cartoon from long ago (New Yorker, maybe?)
showing the inhabitants of a tropical island watching the local
volcano spouting an exaltation of fireworks. "Whatever the gods
are, they aren't angry."

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s57ISZAyJXI/RzFmz-ZEItI/AAAAAAAAAdk/CpALaAMYSWs/

Ah, so it is! Remarkably cheerful, as Addams's works go.

Bookmarked. Thanks.

[Johnny1A]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Robert Carnegie
What about property insurance in Hawaii? Does it cover
Act of Volcano God?

Hal says: "Yes, but it's extremely expensive. Your fire insurance
can cover volcano damage if you can prove that the house caught
fire. All insurance is priced to cover risk." (He's been
spending a lot of time watching volcano news, much of it copied
from the local news channels.

I bet it varies greatly by where one is on the Big Island. As
I recall (I don't have the relevent map handy), you're a lot less
likely to experience an unrequested lava excess in the north
west of the island than the south east.

There are no currently active volcanoes on any of the islands except
Hawaii itself.
The big island has five and a half volcanoes -- Kohala, Hualalai,
Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa, Kilauea, and an undersea one just off the
southeastern coast called Loihi. Kohala and Mauna Kea are extinct,
Hualali is nominally active but hasn't erupted since 1801, and the
other three are all still very much alive.

Earthquakes still appear to have their epicenter below Mauna Kea at times, and there was an eruption in historical times one island up the chain, too. So I wouldn't want to absolutely rule out Mauna Kea doing something eventually.

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 31 May 2018 21:07:38 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A

Post by Johnny1A
Earthquakes still appear to have their epicenter below Mauna Kea at times,

Isn't an epicenter, by definition, on the surface?

[Greg Goss]

Post by Joy Beeson
On Thu, 31 May 2018 21:07:38 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A

Post by Johnny1A
Earthquakes still appear to have their epicenter below Mauna Kea at times,

Isn't an epicenter, by definition, on the surface?

Yup. Epi means above (like epinephrin is made above the kidneys. As
opposed to the latin version ad renal = towards ??? the kidney)

[Leo Sgouros]

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”

And thanks to SCIENCE! we have determined her eyes are brown.
"What in the world can make a brown-eyed girl turn blue"
Roxette,
"She's Got The Look"

https://earther.com/now-kilaueas-eruption-is-producing-wild-blue-flames-1826266419

:-)

...

Post by p***@hotmail.com
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this month,
triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting forests ablaze,
and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a retired
schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve been in her
backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on when she moved
here from Northern California. “In that time I learned that Pele created
this island in all its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Mo-hole! Mo-hole! A driller's life for me!

[Leo Sgouros]

Post by Leo Sgouros

Post by p***@hotmail.com
When the rivers of lava forced thousands to flee this month,
many people on Hawaii’s Big Island pointed with awe toward
the drizzle-shrouded volcanic crater where Pele — known as
“the woman who devours the earth” — usually dwells.
...
“Our deity is coming down to play,” said Lokelani Puha, 52, a
hula dancer and poet who evacuated as the lava encroached,
referring to Hawaii’s goddess of volcanoes and fire. “There’s
nothing to do when Pele makes up her mind but accept her will.”

And thanks to SCIENCE! we have determined her eyes are brown.
"What in the world can make a brown-eyed girl turn blue"
Roxette,
"She's Got The Look"
https://earther.com/now-kilaueas-eruption-is-producing-wild-blue-flames-1826266419
:-)
...

Post by p***@hotmail.com
Hawaiians have endured the overthrow of their kingdom, annexation
by the United States and policies aimed at obliterating the
Hawaiian language. But in a striking display of the resilience
and adaptability of Native Hawaiian culture, the exaltation
of Pele has not only persisted through the centuries, but
seems to be strengthening with every bone-rattling eruption
of Hawaii’s volcanoes.
...
The Kilauea volcano has already laid waste to dozens of homes this month,
triggering earthquakes, releasing lethal gases and setting forests ablaze,
and on Monday it showed few signs of subsiding.
...
And yet many living in Kilauea’s shadow welcome the eruption, express
reverence for Pele and thank her — even when the lava destroys their home.
...
“My house was an offering for Pele,” said Monica Devlin, 71, a retired
schoolteacher whose home was destroyed by a lava flow. “I’ve been in her
backyard for 30 years,” she reflected, doing the math on when she moved
here from Northern California. “In that time I learned that Pele created
this island in all its stunning beauty. It’s an awe-inspiring process
of destruction and creation and I was lucky to glimpse it.”
The last paragraph suggests an interesting possibility. In western
culture the geological age of the Earth was only discovered a
few centuries ago. The Polynesians could see volcanoes spew out lava,
see the lava flow downhill, and see lava cool into rock, adding to
the bulk of the island. They could also see volcanic islands of
widely different sizes. If they believed that the entire volume
of a big island like Oahu had come from lava flows, then comparing
the size of the island to the observed accumulation of new material
over a person's lifetime would give some measure of how old the
island would have to be.
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Mo-hole! Mo-hole! A driller's life for me!

Whoops, can't forget the sci-fi, keep it on topic, all that and more!

"Are you aware," he asked his imaginary visitor, "that the hula preserves an ancient sign language which once belonged only to males? You've never heard of the hula'' Of course. Who dances it anymore? Dancers have preserved many things, though. The translations have been lost, but I know them.

God Emperor Of Dune