Post by GeemanPost by William J. BeatyPost by GeemanWhat do you think of this?
http://www.geocities.com/warpcore91/
Lots of people tried building these. None of them worked.
Wrong types, thicknessses and configurations of the dielectrics.
Right, they all followed Kennedy's written instructions. Big
waste of time. It would have all been different if he simply
said "I haven't built or even seen a working capacitor-thrust
device myself, but..."
But he didn't.
Post by GeemanJean Naudin built and tested Serrano's staggered wedge design,
then Serrano patented it.
Here's Serrano's device as built and tested
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sfptv1.htm
"Serrano's recent patent for a similar [to Kennedy's] device."
http://www.amasci.com/caps/capatnt.html
I put Naudin's page in the class of "it didn't work." Where's the
plastic bag? Where's the wind measurements? Without these the
experiment is bogus.
A beginner might be impressed by Naudin's site, but if you
actually work with these devices you quickly find that they
almost always behave as feeble ion-wind thrusters. How do you
separate any (mundane) ion-wind effects from (interesting)
gravity-thrust effects? Four well-known ways: put the device in
a bag so no air jets can escape, and see whether the thrust goes
away. Simple. In Naudin's website, where's the bag? Two: measure
the air jet produced by the device and calculate the air-jet thrust,
measure the total thrust. Where was this done in Naudin's experiment?
Three: cover all the sharp edges with a thick bead of RTV silicone
so there is no corona and hence no ion-wind jets. Where does Naudin
say this was done? Why didn't he do any of these? WHAT THE HELL
IS GOING ON HERE?!! Four (much harder): run the whole experiment
in a large sealed chamber, then pump it down to hard vacuum while
continually measuring the thrust in order to see if it falls to zero.
If the rotating-arm thing kept moving while in a hard vacuum, THAT
would be VERY interesting.
The stuff on that website is useless since all effects could
easily be produced by jets of "electric wind", and there is
no attempt to find out if this is so. Worse, it's misleading,
since the ion-wind issue is so important that it should be
discussed in every paragraph on that page, yet where is it?
It's just so DISHONEST, it really sucks. To me the website
seems intentionally designed to persuade the ignorant rather
than to get to the truth.
Post by GeemanIf Kennedy is nuts, then so are Serrano and Jean Naudin.
Sure. There are lots of nuts in the fringe sci biz. And
lots of errors, and lots of people innocently fooling themselves,
and people trying to persuade others rather than exposing truth,
and lots of pathological liars who pull hoaxes for the fun of it.
How do you cut through all that crap to find the truth? Well,
first you must WANT to find the truth... which is very different
than wanting your device to actually work. If you want to find
the truth, the first thing you must do is to become an extreme
self-critic, no holds barred. And second, you must ask for others
help in finding any errors you might have missed. Human beings
are VERY good at fooling themselves. The best cure for this is
an extreme amount of constructive criticism coming from yourself
and from others. And you must actually listen to the criticism
and not become all defensive and weasely. In Naudin's page
above, I don't see this. It lacks the bend-over-backwards level
of honesty which is the mark of real truth-seeking science.
Post by GeemanFraud abounds, but Kennedy seems to have been idealistic in 1991
when he SNAIL mailed God only knows how many pages of half-baked
theory hoping someone would make it work and benefit mankind.
Yes, but DOES IT WORK? Fringe-sci hobbyists are always sending
out untested project ideas. They're lazy, otherwise they'd test
them themselves first before sending them out. Idealism has
nothing to do with whether a cool idea will work when actually
built.
Post by GeemanOn his Website now he's GIVING AWAY a patented gravitator-based
thruster just to improve the world.
http://www.geocities.com/warpcore91/
As far as I know, he has never built this or any other device.
(Maybe I'm wrong? If so, please tell me.) If he hasn't built
these devices, then he's typical. It's far easier to draw
up some plans and make a website than it is to actually sit
down and do some experimental work. I've done the same myself,
but with a difference: I clearly label them "IDEA I CAME UP
WITH, BUT HAVEN'T TESTED YET." Also, real-world experiments
are usually a big bummer, (man,) since usually they show that
your wonderful idea must remain forever in the mental plane
because it doesn't actually do anything when you built it. The
rules of the material world are very strict, and they heartlessly
slay all the wonderful ideas which don't follow the rules. It's
a pity, but wonderful ideas are often wrong, so hobbyist
experimentation is often a very depressing activity.
(Perhaps that's why many hobbyists draw up wonderful plans and
send them to other people rather than sitting down and doing the
druge work themselves.)
Post by GeemanIf you build one you don't have to give him credit, but you
CANNOT claim ownership to it either. He made it public domain.
This is beside the point. First we have to have a working
device. Only then can we start fighting about ownership
or about who gets credit for having the idea first.
The only hint that Kennedy's capacitor is a real anomaly
is the messages from that "S" guy who dropped out of sight
without backing up his amazing email claims. Either he was
a hoaxer, or he stumbled onto some trick that nobody else
has found. I personally think it's 99% probable that he was
just another of the many hoaxers, and 1% probable that he
really saw a several-KG capacitor-stack actually take off
and fly above a lab bench. I originally thought it was 50/50,
and was waiting to see if he would supply any evidence or
instead would start up with the excuses. Instead he just
stopped communicating.
Post by GeemanDoes that sound like somebody with selfish intentions?
Yep. It's very simple: it doesn't matter how many unselfish
actions a person takes; the unselfish actions don't cancel out
the bad ones. If I torture puppies, then it doesn't matter
if I donate to charities and help lots of old ladies across the
street, the puppies were still harmed. Altruistic goals don't
erase dishonest acts.
Post by Geeman-He also describes how to make Serrano's 'demo' model a
practical, useful thruster.
Kennedy (claims - do a patent search?) to have gone through
the time and expense of getting a patent, then he gives it away
in a way that EVERYBODY owns it, and he can NEVER charge
royalties of any kind.
But it's worthless if the device is nothing but an ion-wind
thruster.
If it really worked, then it would be a major scientific
discovery, and would probably change the face of civilization.
But if it doesn't do anything except blow air around using
high voltage, then the whole fiasco is only useful as a warning
to others about not trusting untested plans for fringe-sci
devices. Untested plans are all about ego and vanity, and
about attaching one's name to a possibly major discovery. A
proper scientist (even an amateur) is different, and spends time
actually doing experiments, not spending the time drawing up
detailed plans to send out to other people.
Post by GeemanSerrano and Kennedy disgarded that old "Waxed Paper Dielectric"
(The 'waxed paper' used in 1800's Fizeaus Condensers was VERY
thick, home made stuff, nothing like today's waxed paper.)
Kennedy first instructed people to use waxed paper. But he
neglected to mention that he'd never built any such device and
didn't know if it would work if waxed paper was used.
Anything he said later on cannot change this fact.
(You know, now that I think about it, I see that if Kennedy
HAD told people that the idea had never been tested, then
maybe he wouldn't have persuaded anyone to even try. If the
hidden goal was to get other people to build the device for
him, better to use a bit of deception to make his case APPEAR
stronger?)
Post by GeemanHe was not an internet hoaxer and he probably never expected that
The internet just showed how many people are dishonest hoaxers.
Before the internet... they were still the same types. The
world is full of hoaxers, and the internet didn't change this.
If something looks too good to be true, then unless you have a
good reason to think otherwise, it's probably the product of
someone dishonest. If hoaxers were extremely rare, then amazing
claims would be far more trustworthy.
Post by Geemanyears later people would post any of his stuff on the internet.
By not clearly stating that the plans were ideas only, and had
never been tested, he used deception. It's a lie of omission.
It's VERY close to an intentional hoax (where the "hoax" part
seemed meant to fool people into building the device for him.)
Post by GeemanPost by William J. BeatyNote well that in all of his writing, Mr. Kennedy very carefully
avoids saying "I tried this and it worked." This should be a
BIG red flag that subtle dishonesty is present.
Maybe he simply KNEW that the basic principles worked.
I've had very clear visions of new physics before, but when I
tested them in the real world... nothing happened. They weren't
real. Visions are a great source of possible new information,
but they aren't 100% trustworthy (maybe not even 1% trustworthy.)
When the discarnate entities give you an incredible idea during
dreams, most of the time it's bogus. To misquote Aleister Crowley,
any fool of a magician can learn to hear spirit voices, but to get
them to tell the truth... there's the real trick.
Post by GeemanPost by William J. BeatySuppose you draw up some detailed plans for some cool idea you
had, yet you've never built it, and you're hoping that you can
convince someone else to built and test it... then you should
say exactly that. Say it in huge flaming red letters right at
the top, like so: "I SPENT DAYS DRAWING UP THESE DETAILED PLANS OUT
OF MY HEAD, BUT I'VE NEVER DONE ANY TECHNICAL WORK BEFORE, I HAVE
NO INTENTION OF ACTUALLY BUILDING THIS DEVICE, AND I HAVE NO IDEA
WHETHER THE WHOLE THING IS JUST A BUNCH OF HOT AIR... PLEASE DO
THE WORK FOR ME AND THEN REPORT BACK SO I CAN TAKE THE CREDIT."
Did you ever stop to consider that Kennedy's motives are altruistic?
They're dishonest AND altruistic. The one doesn't cancel out the
other. If an altruistic person uses lies and deception, then
that person is not honest, and no amount of altruism can change
this.
Post by GeemanMaybe there really are some unselfish people in the world?
Maybe Serrano is one of the "stupid, greedy people who [stole his idea]"
to try and make money.
That's the inference I get from the statement at the top of the
"warpcore91" Website and the links to Serrano's "similar device"
further down.
Rather than spending time on sci.physics.electromag, go spend
the time actually building a capacitor thruster. Why haven't
you done so already? If you can get it to produce thrust and
fly in a circle while covered in a plastic bag, perhaps there's
something interesting going on.
If you can get it to lift its own weight and fly above the lab
bench as "S" claims that it can, then you can show that everything
I said above was a pile of crap. And you personally will take
mankind into a new age of antigravity technology. But will you
dare to spend a large number of man-hours on something that might
be worthless? I did. And I'll probably do so again with some other
weird device. But will you? Or are you like most, all theory and
no experiment?
(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
***@eskimo.com http://amasci.com
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Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci