Discussion:
Want similar or metaphor for "Speed up, slow down"
(too old to reply)
Pamela
2021-02-01 17:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.

I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.

Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.

Any ideas?

Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-02-01 17:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars
Not so old! My grandson of 5 has one.

However, I'm sorry I can't help with real problem.
Post by Pamela
which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Stefan Ram
2021-02-01 17:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
In German, the word "Anfangsverschlechterung" (initial deterioration /
aggravation) is used in such cases, but also to gloss over ineffective
therapies, kinda like:

"Kyle seems to be getting worse." -
"No no, that's good! Those are the toxins flushing out of the system!"
(South Park)

. Example (translated from German):

|During the initial aggravation, all the still "dormant"
|pimples are made to erupt and all the impurities are
|expelled.... So be patient a little longer... I think you
|will soon see the first results

Based on the quotation, it's hard to tell if this is snake oil or
a helpful drug!
Pamela
2021-02-01 23:23:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Pamela
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
In German, the word "Anfangsverschlechterung" (initial
deterioration / aggravation) is used in such cases,
That's good but anyone would think I'm an insufferable pedant if I
learnt that word and came out with it!
Post by Stefan Ram
"Kyle seems to be getting worse." -
"No no, that's good! Those are the toxins flushing out of the
system!" (South Park)
|During the initial aggravation, all the still "dormant"
|pimples are made to erupt and all the impurities are
|expelled.... So be patient a little longer... I think you
|will soon see the first results
Based on the quotation, it's hard to tell if this is snake oil
or a helpful drug!
Bebercito
2021-02-01 17:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-01 19:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
? That's not an English expresson.

"Take the rough along with the smooth" is something else.

"initial hiccup"?
Bebercito
2021-02-01 19:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Bebercito
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
? That's not an English expresson.
I know, the exact phrase is "Take the rough with the smooth", but
it can easily be "adapted" it to match the case at hand. Note
that I said "along the lines of".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"Take the rough along with the smooth" is something else.
"initial hiccup"?
Makes it difficult to swallow the medicine.
Pamela
2021-02-01 23:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
I would need to shorten it to become "rough and smooth".

It's got potential although "smooth" doesn't really suggest beneficial
and improving.

"Rough and relief" is a small step in the right direction but lacks
punch.
Lanarcam
2021-02-01 23:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Bebercito
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
I would need to shorten it to become "rough and smooth".
It's got potential although "smooth" doesn't really suggest beneficial
and improving.
"Rough and relief" is a small step in the right direction but lacks
punch.
Sink and rise?
Peter Moylan
2021-02-02 01:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Maybe something along the lines of "taking the rough to have the
smooth".
For some reason that brings to mind exercise trainers. Also my mother
saying "If it tastes bad, it's good for you".[1]

And that triggers the thought of "second wind". Not really an answer to
the original question, but maybe it will send someone thinking in a new
direction.

[1] Many years later, it now occurs to me that that might not be
precisely what she said. But that was the message I heard.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Tony Cooper
2021-02-01 18:21:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
The medicine resulted in a sudden shift from a bad initial reaction to
a positive and beneficial effect.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Pamela
2021-02-01 23:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
The medicine resulted in a sudden shift from a bad initial
reaction to a positive and beneficial effect.
That's true although I would like something catchier than that so I can
refer to it in later conversation using a punchy phrase.

Kind of like "slam and rebound" but I don't think that's particularly
good.
Mack A. Damia
2021-02-01 23:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
The medicine resulted in a sudden shift from a bad initial
reaction to a positive and beneficial effect.
That's true although I would like something catchier than that so I can
refer to it in later conversation using a punchy phrase.
Kind of like "slam and rebound" but I don't think that's particularly
good.
Impeded/delayed acceleration.
Tony Cooper
2021-02-02 02:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
The medicine resulted in a sudden shift from a bad initial
reaction to a positive and beneficial effect.
That's true although I would like something catchier than that so I can
refer to it in later conversation using a punchy phrase.
Kind of like "slam and rebound" but I don't think that's particularly
good.
Just stick in some adjectives.


The medicine resulted in a sudden, tremor-inducing shift from a bad
initial reaction to a positive and blissfully beneficial effect.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
bozo de niro
2021-02-01 18:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
Oh you want the word for "how to nicely accelerate and spin wildly out of control" — that's called Political Science for Dummies from a publisher popular a few decades ago. You could also hire a quant for a curve and an algorithm to search for a corresponding word, but then that's like watching Risky Business for how to get into college when all you really want is a date with Rebecca De Mornay.
Jerry Friedman
2021-02-01 20:14:34 UTC
Permalink
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Those are apparently "friction-powered cars". They contain
"friction motors".

Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
There's the idea that a medicine that tastes bad is good for you.

"No pain, no gain."

"Reculer pour mieux avancer" (or "sauter").

Pulling a slingshot/catapult back?

And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
--
Jerry Friedman
Vroom vroom!
Bebercito
2021-02-01 20:36:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Those are apparently "friction-powered cars". They contain
"friction motors".
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
There's the idea that a medicine that tastes bad is good for you.
"No pain, no gain."
Then maybe also "A necessary evil", "A blessing in disguise", "What
doesn't kill us makes us stronger"?
Post by Jerry Friedman
"Reculer pour mieux avancer" (or "sauter").
"Un mal pour un bien", but that hasn't made it into English.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Pulling a slingshot/catapult back?
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
--
Jerry Friedman
Vroom vroom!
Peter Moylan
2021-02-02 01:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Post by Jerry Friedman
"Reculer pour mieux avancer" (or "sauter").
"Un mal pour un bien", but that hasn't made it into English.
No, but "Taking the bad with the good" is English, and is somewhat related.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
CDB
2021-02-02 14:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Post by Jerry Friedman
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially
getting serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better
from its beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative
effects, which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you
strike along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then
letting the car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase
for this.
Those are apparently "friction-powered cars". They contain
"friction motors".
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
There's the idea that a medicine that tastes bad is good for you.
"No pain, no gain."
Then maybe also "A necessary evil", "A blessing in disguise", "What
doesn't kill us makes us stronger"?
Post by Jerry Friedman
"Reculer pour mieux avancer" (or "sauter").
"Un mal pour un bien", but that hasn't made it into English.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Pulling a slingshot/catapult back?
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Seeing Bebercito's response started me thinking about "reculer pour
mieux sauter", to move back and take a run at something.

Wiktionary says the French phrase is used in English, but it could also
be translated as something like "retreat to get a good run at the
problem", or something suggested in the article:

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reculer_pour_mieux_sauter#:~:text=reculer%20pour%20mieux%20sauter>

There is a cough syrup (Buckley's) whose slogan, at least in Canada, is
"It tastes awful. And it works".
Quinn C
2021-02-02 22:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
There is a cough syrup (Buckley's) whose slogan, at least in Canada, is
"It tastes awful. And it works".
Is that still in use? I don't remember seeing such an ad.

I've used at least two kinds of Buckley's syrup and didn't find them
awful at all. But it probably wasn't the "original mixture". The last
one I had was "mucus & phlegm".
--
Are you sure your sanity chip is fully screwed in, Sir?
-- Kryten to Rimmer (Red Dwarf)
CDB
2021-02-03 14:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
There is a cough syrup (Buckley's) whose slogan, at least in
Canada, is "It tastes awful. And it works".
Is that still in use? I don't remember seeing such an ad.
I still see it quite often.
Post by Quinn C
I've used at least two kinds of Buckley's syrup and didn't find them
awful at all. But it probably wasn't the "original mixture". The
last one I had was "mucus & phlegm".
Never tried the stuff.
Peter Moylan
2021-02-04 00:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
There is a cough syrup (Buckley's) whose slogan, at least in Canada, is
"It tastes awful. And it works".
Is that still in use? I don't remember seeing such an ad.
I've used at least two kinds of Buckley's syrup and didn't find them
awful at all. But it probably wasn't the "original mixture". The last
one I had was "mucus & phlegm".
Sounds unpleasant. When I have a cold I already have enough mucus and
phlegm.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Pamela
2021-02-01 23:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Those are apparently "friction-powered cars". They contain
"friction motors".
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
There's the idea that a medicine that tastes bad is good for you.
"No pain, no gain."
"Reculer pour mieux avancer" (or "sauter").
Pulling a slingshot/catapult back?
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
It's what I experience and what has confused a diagnosis of my
condition. I would like to refer to the effect in a punchy way that
gets the concept over in a memorable way and one that I can reuse.
Lewis
2021-02-02 23:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
I had toy cars as a child that you pulled back a few times to wind up
some internal mechanism, then you let them go and they would zip off
across the tiles.
Post by Jerry Friedman
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Sounds like the snake oil sales tactic to me.

Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".

Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
--
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know
what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be
president.
Jerry Friedman
2021-02-03 03:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
I had toy cars as a child that you pulled back a few times to wind up
some internal mechanism, then you let them go and they would zip off
across the tiles.
Sounds familiar, now that you mention it.
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Sounds like the snake oil sales tactic to me.
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Maybe chelation for exposure to radionuclides.

More to the point, I don't think Pamela mentioned expelling toxins. Stefan
did in a quotation from /South Park/.
Post by Lewis
Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
I'll go along with that.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-02-03 22:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Maybe chelation for exposure to radionuclides.
I've heard a medical research person years ago who said something to the
effect of "There's no 'detox' besides what the kidneys are doing
already." Only one opinion, but from a person I trust more in the matter
than 99.x% of the people I've heard talking about "detox treatments".
--
... she didn't exactly approve of the military. She didn't
exactly disapprove, either; she just made it plain that she
thought there were better things for intelligent human beings
to do with their lives. -- L. McMaster Bujold, Memory
Jerry Friedman
2021-02-03 22:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Maybe chelation for exposure to radionuclides.
I've heard a medical research person years ago who said something to the
effect of "There's no 'detox' besides what the kidneys are doing
already." Only one opinion, but from a person I trust more in the matter
than 99.x% of the people I've heard talking about "detox treatments".
There's that. However, chelating heavy metals does help the kidneys get
rid of them. And as Janet pointed out, it's not for radioactive isotopes.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-03 23:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
I've heard a medical research person years ago who said something to the
effect of "There's no 'detox' besides what the kidneys are doing
already." Only one opinion, but from a person I trust more in the matter
than 99.x% of the people I've heard talking about "detox treatments".
Is 99.x% equal to 100%?
Peter Moylan
2021-02-03 03:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.

Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-03 04:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
They can help with extreme hypertension. Hospitals probably have
a batch on hand.
Rich Ulrich
2021-02-03 04:57:35 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 20:34:49 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
They can help with extreme hypertension. Hospitals probably have
a batch on hand.
Google.
"Mar 23, 2020 — The U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2004
approved the use of leeches for localized venous congestion after
surgery, recognizing them as living, breathing medical devices.
Given that the scientific name for the leech is hirudinea, their use
for medical purposes is often referred to as hirudotherapy."
--
Rich Ulrich
Janet
2021-02-03 12:45:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
They can help with extreme hypertension. Hospitals probably have
a batch on hand.
Leeches are used to reduce clotting and promote blood flow for tissue
regeneration, in plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery, amputations
and re-attachments.

https://www.biopharm-leeches.com/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54553442

Janet
Lewis
2021-02-03 18:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.

But for snake bites does sound plausible; probably not actually
possible, but then again a lot of plausible things don't actually work.

As far as I know, any idea of "sucking out the venom" is nonsense.
--
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I
approved of it." - Mark Twain
Ken Blake
2021-02-03 19:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
--
Ken
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-03 20:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
I'm sure there would be.
I hear a Dalek voice saying:

Exsanguinate! Exsanguinate!
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Tony Cooper
2021-02-03 22:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
I get it, but - actually - when the detached is successfully
reattached blood flow is restored.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-04 00:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
Yes, pedantic point. When they are re-attached leeches are used to
promote blood flow into the limbs or digits that were previously
detached.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Yes, but why does the chicken cross the road, huh, if not for love?
I do not know."
Ken Blake
2021-02-04 15:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
Yes, pedantic point.
Sigh. It was meant more as a joke, rather than as a pedantic point.
Post by Lewis
When they are re-attached leeches are used to
promote blood flow into the limbs or digits that were previously
detached.
--
Ken
Pamela
2021-02-05 08:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical
procedure that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're
out in the bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to
be recommended for snake bites, but I don't know whether that
advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to
stimulate blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
There is no blood low in a detached limb or digit.
Yes, pedantic point.
Sigh. It was meant more as a joke, rather than as a pedantic
point.
It's hardy pedantic to read "detached" and "previously detached" and
two different things. One is detached and the other is not.
Tony Cooper
2021-02-03 19:06:56 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
It's not that they stimulate the blood flow. Leeches secret peptides
that prevent blood clots where a limb has been detached or reattached.
It's their saliva that contributes to the healing.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-04 00:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
It's not that they stimulate the blood flow. Leeches secret peptides
that prevent blood clots where a limb has been detached or reattached.
It's their saliva that contributes to the healing.
That's not what the doctor's said when they reattached my sister's arm.
--
My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can
feel it. I can feel it. I'm... afraid.
Tony Cooper
2021-02-04 01:18:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:20:26 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
It's not that they stimulate the blood flow. Leeches secret peptides
that prevent blood clots where a limb has been detached or reattached.
It's their saliva that contributes to the healing.
That's not what the doctor's said when they reattached my sister's arm.
Doctors often state things to non-medical people in terms that they
feel will be understandable, but are not either technically correct or
incorrect.

You would take "stimulate" to mean "increase", but removing or
preventing blood clots simply stops the flow from being restricted.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-04 05:57:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:20:26 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
It's not that they stimulate the blood flow. Leeches secret peptides
that prevent blood clots where a limb has been detached or reattached.
It's their saliva that contributes to the healing.
That's not what the doctor's said when they reattached my sister's arm.
Doctors often state things to non-medical people in terms that they
feel will be understandable, but are not either technically correct or
incorrect.
You would take "stimulate" to mean "increase", but removing or
preventing blood clots simply stops the flow from being restricted.
Since the leeches were used after the attachment and they specifically
said they helped make sure the blood flowed into the reattached tissue,
I'm going to go with the assumption they knew what they were talking
about. It was years ago, but there was quite a lot of detail at the
time.
--
Margo: Give me a phaser and a red shirt.
Male centurion: What?
Tony Cooper
2021-02-04 15:27:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 05:57:52 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:20:26 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:31:25 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
It's not that they stimulate the blood flow. Leeches secret peptides
that prevent blood clots where a limb has been detached or reattached.
It's their saliva that contributes to the healing.
That's not what the doctor's said when they reattached my sister's arm.
Doctors often state things to non-medical people in terms that they
feel will be understandable, but are not either technically correct or
incorrect.
You would take "stimulate" to mean "increase", but removing or
preventing blood clots simply stops the flow from being restricted.
Since the leeches were used after the attachment and they specifically
said they helped make sure the blood flowed into the reattached tissue,
I'm going to go with the assumption they knew what they were talking
about. It was years ago, but there was quite a lot of detail at the
time.
I'm not contesting whether or not the doctors knew what they were
talking about. I'm simply saying the peptides prevented blood clots
from forming, and this facilitates blood flow. Clots restrict flow,
and the capillary structure will not regenerate with clots present.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Adam Funk
2021-02-03 19:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Leeches.
I don't think so.
Post by Peter Moylan
Apparently still used in some medical procedures. If you're out in the
bush, with no chance of medical help, they used to be recommended for
snake bites, but I don't know whether that advice is still current.
I haven't heard they are used for that., but they are used to stimulate
blood flow, especially in detached limbs or digits.
But for snake bites does sound plausible; probably not actually
possible, but then again a lot of plausible things don't actually work.
As far as I know, any idea of "sucking out the venom" is nonsense.
Right, don't do that any more. I think the reason lot of people still
"know" to suck out the venom is because that used to be taught (not
because they're stupid).
--
Not even computers will replace committees, because committees buy
computers. ---Shepherd Mead
Janet
2021-02-03 12:35:18 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@m1mini.local>, ***@kreme.dont-
email.me says...
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
I had toy cars as a child that you pulled back a few times to wind up
some internal mechanism, then you let them go and they would zip off
across the tiles.
Post by Jerry Friedman
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Sounds like the snake oil sales tactic to me.
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
chelation?
Post by Lewis
Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
Aren't enemas, purges and diuretics medical procedures to induce
peeing and crapping?

Janet
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-03 13:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
email.me says...
Post by Lewis
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
Aren't enemas, purges and diuretics medical procedures to induce
peeing and crapping?
Not in so many words ...
Lewis
2021-02-03 18:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
email.me says...
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
I had toy cars as a child that you pulled back a few times to wind up
some internal mechanism, then you let them go and they would zip off
across the tiles.
Post by Jerry Friedman
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Sounds like the snake oil sales tactic to me.
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
chelation?
Sure. DIdn't know about that, but it is about removing too much of
something from the body.
Post by Janet
Post by Lewis
Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
Aren't enemas, purges and diuretics medical procedures to induce
peeing and crapping?
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure, and I'm not sure the intent
of diuretics is to expel toxins, not to mention that many things people
eat every day are diuretics.

(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
--
It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all
and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought...should be literally
unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words.
Adam Funk
2021-02-03 19:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Janet
email.me says...
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Note that you push them forward to spin them up, so there's no
reverse motion, if that's what you're looking for.
I had toy cars as a child that you pulled back a few times to wind up
some internal mechanism, then you let them go and they would zip off
across the tiles.
Post by Jerry Friedman
And does this really happen, or is it what the manufacturers want
you to think?
Sounds like the snake oil sales tactic to me.
Other than inducing vomiting I can't think of any medical procedure
that is designed to "expel toxins".
chelation?
Sure. DIdn't know about that, but it is about removing too much of
something from the body.
Post by Janet
Post by Lewis
Crapping and peeing is not a medical procedure.
Aren't enemas, purges and diuretics medical procedures to induce
peeing and crapping?
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
You are NOT going to make me google that.
Post by Lewis
and I'm not sure the intent
of diuretics is to expel toxins, not to mention that many things people
eat every day are diuretics.
(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
Have you had your 8 glasses of water today?
--
...the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not
necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is
simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large
part of a day off to deal with the ravages. ---Amis _On Drink_
Peter Moylan
2021-02-04 00:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Lewis
(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
Have you had your 8 glasses of water today?
Too much! Water is a diuretic.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Lewis
2021-02-04 00:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Lewis
(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
Have you had your 8 glasses of water today?
I've had 12 cups of coffee and I FEEEL FINE! FINE I TELLS YOU!
--
Vampires are [...] by nature as co-operative as sharks. Vampyres are
just the same, the only real difference being that they can't
spell properly. --Carpe Jugulum
Adam Funk
2021-02-04 10:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Lewis
(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
Have you had your 8 glasses of water today?
I've had 12 cups of coffee and I FEEEL FINE! FINE I TELLS YOU!
Hey, that worked for Frank Zappa.
--
Slade was the coolest band in England. They were the kind of guys
that would push your car out of a ditch. ---Alice Cooper
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-03 20:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Tony Cooper
2021-02-03 22:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Depends on if the hospital has a code for this. What would be
charged, absolutely, is an outrageous amount for the enema bag/fluid
and the disposable basin.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-04 00:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain! But is Chippendale's ready for 'The Full Pinky?'"
Tony Cooper
2021-02-04 01:22:24 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
When I had surgery, the hospital provided me with socks with a
gripping sole to wear during the procedure and to wear when I got out
of the bed in recovery.

I don't know if I was billed for them as a line charge or if the cost
was lumped in with the other charges.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-04 06:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
When I had surgery, the hospital provided me with socks with a
gripping sole to wear during the procedure and to wear when I got out
of the bed in recovery.
I don't know if I was billed for them as a line charge or if the cost
was lumped in with the other charges.
My FIL's insurance was billed for a pair of compression socks that
someone (don't know if it was a nurse or a OT or what) helped him
put on at a diabetic clinic. I seem to recall the charge was in the
three digits.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Yes, I am!"
Ken Blake
2021-02-04 15:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
When I had surgery, the hospital provided me with socks with a
gripping sole to wear during the procedure and to wear when I got out
of the bed in recovery.
I don't know if I was billed for them as a line charge or if the cost
was lumped in with the other charges.
I had surgery a year ago and I also got special socks to wear. I wasn't
billed for them at all.
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2021-02-04 16:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
When I had surgery, the hospital provided me with socks with a
gripping sole to wear during the procedure and to wear when I got out
of the bed in recovery.
I don't know if I was billed for them as a line charge or if the cost
was lumped in with the other charges.
I had surgery a year ago and I also got special socks to wear. I wasn't
billed for them at all.
Not that you know, that is. I'd have to dig out the invoice from the
hospital to know how the hospital where I had surgery billed the
miscellaneous items they provided, but I am quite confident that
nothing was free.

Hospitals find ways to recover their costs, and make a profit on the
items, that escape the eye of the patient. They bury some of the
charges lest patients complain about a $10 line charge for a packet of
Kleenex that sells for less than a dollar at a store.

The place where I had some mechanical work on my automobile uses a
single line labeled as "shop supplies" to recover their costs for
this.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Ken Blake
2021-02-04 16:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 00:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
When I had surgery, the hospital provided me with socks with a
gripping sole to wear during the procedure and to wear when I got out
of the bed in recovery.
I don't know if I was billed for them as a line charge or if the cost
was lumped in with the other charges.
I had surgery a year ago and I also got special socks to wear. I wasn't
billed for them at all.
Not that you know, that is.
Yes, of course. But I still don't think so.


I'd have to dig out the invoice from the
Post by Tony Cooper
hospital to know how the hospital where I had surgery billed the
miscellaneous items they provided, but I am quite confident that
nothing was free.
Hospitals find ways to recover their costs, and make a profit on the
items, that escape the eye of the patient. They bury some of the
charges lest patients complain about a $10 line charge for a packet of
Kleenex that sells for less than a dollar at a store.
The place where I had some mechanical work on my automobile uses a
single line labeled as "shop supplies" to recover their costs for
this.
--
Ken
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-04 19:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-02-04 19:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Tony Cooper
2021-02-04 22:06:29 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:24:19 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
New one on me, and I thought I knew what all the "ists" are.

I have visited a foot specialist who treated an ingrown toenail, but
she is a podiatrist. A podiatrist, in the US, is a medical doctor
(M.D.)

I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.

I see frequent references to "chiropodists" in British writing, and
that seems to be the same as a podiatrist in this country. I don't
see chiropodist used in the US, but I don't read too many things that
deal with foot disorders.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-05 00:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.
First two hits for me:

<https://pedimanie.com/who-is-a-podologist-what-does-a-foot-doctor-do/>
<https://www.askdifference.com/podiatrist-vs-podologist/>
--
Maybe I should have seen it as some kind of sign, except I don't
believe in them no more; no no, but I believe these things I
can't forget, tho I don't see you anymore.
Tony Cooper
2021-02-05 01:49:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 00:53:11 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.
<https://pedimanie.com/who-is-a-podologist-what-does-a-foot-doctor-do/>
"A podologist is a medical doctor who specializes in providing
comprehensive leg and foot care."

"A podiatrist is a doctor of podiatric medicine, physician or surgeon
who specializes in diagnosing and treating the foot, ankle and lower
extremities of the leg."

Why is one a "medical doctor" and the other is a "doctor of podiatric
medicine"?

Based on the above, the definitions *seem* to say that they are both
the same. Two terms, but applicable to either.
Post by Lewis
<https://www.askdifference.com/podiatrist-vs-podologist/>
"The main difference between Podiatrist and Podologist is that the
Podiatrist is a medical professional devoted to the medical treatment
of disorders of the foot and Podologist is a branch of medicine
devoted to the study of, diagnosis, and medical treatment of disorders
of the foot, ankle, and lower extremity."

Worse. It seems to say that the Podiatrist is the only one of the two
that is a medical professional.

The catagory is "Differences". What differences are in that
statement? It seems to mean that the Podiatrist doen't engage in the
study of or diagnosis; just the treatment. A good guesser?
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-02-05 06:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 00:53:11 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.
<https://pedimanie.com/who-is-a-podologist-what-does-a-foot-doctor-do/>
"A podologist is a medical doctor who specializes in providing
comprehensive leg and foot care."
"A podiatrist is a doctor of podiatric medicine, physician or surgeon
who specializes in diagnosing and treating the foot, ankle and lower
extremities of the leg."
Why is one a "medical doctor" and the other is a "doctor of podiatric
medicine"?
I didn't write it, but it sounds to me like a podiatrist specifically
studied podiatry and may also be a surgeon or physician while the other
is a doctor who is practicing with a focus on leg and foot care?

Not sure it all makes sense, but I suspect a doctor might parse some of
that. It does seem to contain weasel words that aren't clear to the
layman, though it seems to be written for the layman. Badly written,
however.
Post by Tony Cooper
Based on the above, the definitions *seem* to say that they are both
the same. Two terms, but applicable to either.
Post by Lewis
<https://www.askdifference.com/podiatrist-vs-podologist/>
"The main difference between Podiatrist and Podologist is that the
Podiatrist is a medical professional devoted to the medical treatment
of disorders of the foot and Podologist is a branch of medicine
devoted to the study of, diagnosis, and medical treatment of disorders
of the foot, ankle, and lower extremity."
Worse. It seems to say that the Podiatrist is the only one of the two
that is a medical professional.
I believe "Medical Professional" is a catch-all term that includes many
non-MDs like PTs, OTs, nurses, massage therapists, pharmacists,
psychologists... ?

I know that for vaccination purposes against COVID-19 my friend who is
a pharmacy tech is classified as a medical professional, which is why
he's already been vaccinated despite working in a office with no outside
contact.
--
Internet was down last night. Turns out I have two kids. They seem
pretty well-behaved
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-05 19:59:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Lewis
<https://www.askdifference.com/podiatrist-vs-podologist/>
"The main difference between Podiatrist and Podologist is that the
Podiatrist is a medical professional devoted to the medical treatment
of disorders of the foot and Podologist is a branch of medicine
devoted to the study of, diagnosis, and medical treatment of disorders
of the foot, ankle, and lower extremity."
"Lower extremity" seems far too vague to me. I worry that some part of
my shin may languish in a no-man's-land where no specialist will tend to it.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Snidely
2021-02-05 20:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Lewis
<https://www.askdifference.com/podiatrist-vs-podologist/>
"The main difference between Podiatrist and Podologist is that the
Podiatrist is a medical professional devoted to the medical treatment
of disorders of the foot and Podologist is a branch of medicine
devoted to the study of, diagnosis, and medical treatment of disorders
of the foot, ankle, and lower extremity."
"Lower extremity" seems far too vague to me. I worry that some part of my
shin may languish in a no-man's-land where no specialist will tend to it.
Orthopedics, especially if treating a break. A myo[mumble] if your
calf muscles are wasting away. A dermatologist might be involved with
eczema, shingles, or moles. I'm not sure who treats a condition of
being knock-kneed.

/dps "or is that a hackney'd phrase these days?"
--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-02-05 07:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:24:19 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
New one on me, and I thought I knew what all the "ists" are.
I have visited a foot specialist who treated an ingrown toenail, but
she is a podiatrist. A podiatrist, in the US, is a medical doctor
(M.D.)
I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.
I see frequent references to "chiropodists" in British writing, and
that seems to be the same as a podiatrist in this country. I don't
see chiropodist used in the US, but I don't read too many things that
deal with foot disorders.
Probably "chiropodist": I didn't remember that word but just anglicized
the French "podologue". I didn't need the word when I lived in an
anglophone world. I suppose mymotherhad a chiropodist in her later
years, but it wasn't the sort of thing we talked about. Anyway, she
seems to be recognized as a health professional; for example, when we
went to see her last November she said that it was regarded as a
medical visit for lock-down purposes.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
charles
2021-02-05 09:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:24:19 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a
medical procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision? It's only a matter of time before you
are charged with practising medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
New one on me, and I thought I knew what all the "ists" are.
I have visited a foot specialist who treated an ingrown toenail, but she
is a podiatrist. A podiatrist, in the US, is a medical doctor (M.D.)
I can't determine if a podologist is a medical doctor or not. Google
keeps defaulting to "podiatrist" when I search.
I see frequent references to "chiropodists" in British writing, and that
seems to be the same as a podiatrist in this country. I don't see
chiropodist used in the US, but I don't read too many things that deal
with foot disorders.
I have a friend (in England) who used to call himself a 'chiropodist" but
later changed that to 'podiatrist'. He used to be involved in our village
amateur theatre mainly backstahe but occasionally taking an acting part. In
one such role, a child in the audience swaid loudly "Look, there's Mr
Veruca!"
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Janet
2021-02-05 12:31:30 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@imm.cnrs.fr
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the right
or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.

Janet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-02-05 13:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a
medical procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my
socks on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on
myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the
right or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.
Janet
I never did understand why Rowan & Martin's performers wanted people to
"sock it to me". Another strange US custom?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
charles
2021-02-05 14:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a
medical procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my
socks on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on
myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the
right or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.
Janet
I never did understand why Rowan & Martin's performers wanted people to
"sock it to me". Another strange US custom?
The main script write was a Brit.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-02-05 21:13:36 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:55:59 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a
medical procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my
socks on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on
myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the
right or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.
Janet
I never did understand why Rowan & Martin's performers wanted people to
"sock it to me". Another strange US custom?
The main script write was a Brit.
The OED says phrase "sock it to someone" is: Originally and chiefly U.S.

"sock, v.2" means to "hit forcefully".
Etymology: Of obscure origin.

The phrase:

'to sock it to' (one): to strike, deal a blow to (that person);
to ‘give it’ to (one). Hence figurative; frequently in
imperative, as catchphrase sock it to me (them, etc.)!, used to
express encouragement, sexual invitation, etc. Also in noun phrase
sock-it-to-me, a loud and violent style of music; a piece of such
music. Originally and chiefly U.S.

1877 J. R. Bartlett Dict. Americanisms (ed. 4) 623 Two loafers
are fighting; one of the crowd cries out, ‘Sock it to him.’
1883 ‘M. Twain’ Life on Mississippi xliii. 438 A rich man won't
have anything but your very best; and you can..pile it on and sock
it to him.

And more recently:

1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.

And the last 2 of the 15 quotations:

1977 New Yorker 2 May 34/2 I can't afford a second divorce.
Daphne would really sock it to me.
1978 Railway Age 25 Dec. 25/2 Does all this boil down to some
kind of accounting legerdemain that, in the end, will be socking
it to the taxpayers?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-05 21:34:38 UTC
Permalink
1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.
How unobservant. _Everyone_ on Laugh-In said it. (Including
Richard Nixon.) Judy Carne was the one with the British accent.
1977 New Yorker 2 May 34/2 I can't afford a second divorce.
Daphne would really sock it to me.
1978 Railway Age 25 Dec. 25/2 Does all this boil down to some
kind of accounting legerdemain that, in the end, will be socking
it to the taxpayers?
It seems odd to intermingle literal uses and the catch-phrase
uses (and to try to impute a literal sort of meaning to the catch-
phrase use).
Tony Cooper
2021-02-05 22:45:50 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 13:34:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.
How unobservant. _Everyone_ on Laugh-In said it. (Including
Richard Nixon.) Judy Carne was the one with the British accent.
But it was Judy Carne who was the one most closely associated with the
phrase, and the one who would get a bucket of water doused on her. She
is the "sock-it-to-me girl".

Her biography is titled "Laughing on the Outside, Crying on the
Inside: The Bittersweet Saga of the Sock-It-To-Me Girl.”

She came by that British accent legitimately. She was born in
Northhampton, UK.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-05 23:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 13:34:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.
How unobservant. _Everyone_ on Laugh-In said it. (Including
Richard Nixon.) Judy Carne was the one with the British accent.
But it was Judy Carne who was the one most closely associated with the
phrase, and the one who would get a bucket of water doused on her. She
is the "sock-it-to-me girl".
Her biography is titled "Laughing on the Outside, Crying on the
Inside: The Bittersweet Saga of the Sock-It-To-Me Girl.”
It's unlikely that an Australian newspaper would have seen that
in June 1968, at the end of the first season. She was only in the
cast for three of the six seasons.

""Sock it to me"; Judy Carne was often tricked into saying the phrase
("It may be rice wine to you, but it's still sake to me!"), which almost
invariably led to her (and other cast members) falling through a trap
door, being doused with water, or playfully assaulted in various other
manners. The phrase was also uttered by many of the cameo guest
stars, most notably Richard Nixon, though they were almost never
subjected to the same treatment as Carne." --Wikip"
Post by Tony Cooper
She came by that British accent legitimately. She was born in
Northhampton, UK.
I've known people from Northampton, Mass.
Tony Cooper
2021-02-05 23:43:46 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:18:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 13:34:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.
How unobservant. _Everyone_ on Laugh-In said it. (Including
Richard Nixon.) Judy Carne was the one with the British accent.
But it was Judy Carne who was the one most closely associated with the
phrase, and the one who would get a bucket of water doused on her. She
is the "sock-it-to-me girl".
Her biography is titled "Laughing on the Outside, Crying on the
Inside: The Bittersweet Saga of the Sock-It-To-Me Girl.”
It's unlikely that an Australian newspaper would have seen that
in June 1968, at the end of the first season. She was only in the
cast for three of the six seasons.
If an Australian newspaper reporter was familiar with "Laugh In", that
reporter would have been familiar with Judy Carne being known as the
"sock-it-to-me" girl. As all of us who watched the show thought of
her.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-06 00:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:18:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 13:34:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
1968 Telegraph (Brisbane) 15 June 2/3 ‘Sock it to me’ is a
catch-phrase which is sweeping America... It's all due to Judy
Carne,..who cheekily used the phrase in a weekly comedy show
called ‘Laugh In’.
How unobservant. _Everyone_ on Laugh-In said it. (Including
Richard Nixon.) Judy Carne was the one with the British accent.
But it was Judy Carne who was the one most closely associated with the
phrase, and the one who would get a bucket of water doused on her. She
is the "sock-it-to-me girl".
Her biography is titled "Laughing on the Outside, Crying on the
Inside: The Bittersweet Saga of the Sock-It-To-Me Girl.”
It's unlikely that an Australian newspaper would have seen that
in June 1968, at the end of the first season. She was only in the
cast for three of the six seasons.
If an Australian newspaper reporter was familiar with "Laugh In", that
reporter would have been familiar with Judy Carne being known as the
"sock-it-to-me" girl. As all of us who watched the show thought of
her.
How typically deceptively dishonest of you to delete the paragraph
describing the _actual_ use of the catch-phrase on the show, which
apparently conflicts with your apparently hormone-driven memories
of perhaps an occasional glimpse of the outline of a nipple under a
wet t-shirt.

And also your misspelling of a place name that you had presumably
just copied from Wikipedia.

Snidely
2021-02-05 18:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
I'm not sure a enema is a medical procedure,
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a
medical procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my
socks on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on
myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the
right or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.
Janet
I never did understand why Rowan & Martin's performers wanted people to
"sock it to me". Another strange US custom?
"hit me with it", not "knit me one"

/dps
--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm
Jerry Friedman
2021-02-05 21:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
[enema, but it could have been about anything]
Post by Janet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
Do you mean an American hospital wouldn't charge for this as a medical
procedure?
Oh, if that is the criteria then putting on socks is a medical
procedure.
You do that without supervision?
It's only a matter of time before you are charged with practising
medicine without a licence.
I had an appointment with my podologist this morning. She put my socks
on for me afterwards, but she allowed me to put my shoes on myself.
But did she put the right sock back on the right foot, and the left
sock back on its right foot. If the right sock was not left on the right
or left foot, your sole could be on a slippery slope.
And even if she toed the line, that's not the sole thing necessary for you
to heal.

Are the French taxpayers footing the bill?
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-02-03 22:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
(If I had a dollar for every supposed medical professional who said that
drinking coffee did not count as hydration because it's a diuretic I'd
be quite wealthy.)
I hate that. I trust my body not to let itself die of thirst in the
presence of water. But it's just one of hundreds of popular phony
messages about food and drink.
--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-01 21:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to imply
an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Paul Wolff
2021-02-01 22:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to imply
an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.

Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain". And
"reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by missing out
the accent.
--
Paul
Jerry Friedman
2021-02-01 23:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to imply
an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you can't
rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is what
Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain". And
"reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by missing out
the accent.
I don't think it's missing an accent.
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Wolff
2021-02-01 23:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to imply
an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you can't
rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is what
Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain". And
"reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by missing out
the accent.
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I wondered, afterwards - not a circumflex on the 'u' of reculer? If not
that, then it's missing my terrible French accent.

(And now I think I missed you suggesting the same phrase. I only read a
small fraction of the posts here.)
--
Paul
Snidely
2021-02-02 00:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain". And
"reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by missing out
the accent.
I don't think it's missing an accent.
You haven't heard my French.

/dps
--
You could try being nicer and politer
Post by Jerry Friedman
instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison
Quinn C
2021-02-02 00:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain". And
"reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by missing out
the accent.
I don't think it's missing an accent.
You haven't heard my French.
I guess he's not missed anything.
--
Be afraid of the lame - They'll inherit your legs
Be afraid of the old - They'll inherit your souls
-- Regina Spektor, Après moi
CDB
2021-02-02 14:06:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially
getting serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better
from its beneficial effects. I thought of "see saw" but that
doesn't suggest adverse effects. Also it gives exactly equal
time to positive and negative effects, which is not usually the
case. Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which
you strike along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and
then letting the car power away merrily. However I can't find a
phrase for this. Any ideas? Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases,
whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you
can't rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is
what Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain".
And "reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by
missing out the accent.
Pipped again.
Post by Jerry Friedman
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I concur.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-02 16:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially
getting serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better
from its beneficial effects. I thought of "see saw" but that
doesn't suggest adverse effects. Also it gives exactly equal
time to positive and negative effects, which is not usually the
case. Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which
you strike along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and
then letting the car power away merrily. However I can't find a
phrase for this. Any ideas? Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases,
whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you
can't rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is
what Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain".
And "reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by
missing out the accent.
Pipped again.
At the pass?
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I concur.
Would someone whom Pamela has not "killfiled" kindly pass on
my suggestion, "No pain no gain"?
Bebercito
2021-02-02 16:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially
getting serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better
from its beneficial effects. I thought of "see saw" but that
doesn't suggest adverse effects. Also it gives exactly equal
time to positive and negative effects, which is not usually the
case. Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which
you strike along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and
then letting the car power away merrily. However I can't find a
phrase for this. Any ideas? Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases,
whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you
can't rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is
what Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain".
And "reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by
missing out the accent.
Pipped again.
At the pass?
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I concur.
Would someone whom Pamela has not "killfiled" kindly pass on
my suggestion, "No pain no gain"?
Jerry has already, but the suggestion was his - so that he pipped you
at the _post_, literally.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-02-02 16:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially
getting serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better
from its beneficial effects. I thought of "see saw" but that
doesn't suggest adverse effects. Also it gives exactly equal
time to positive and negative effects, which is not usually the
case. Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which
you strike along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and
then letting the car power away merrily. However I can't find a
phrase for this. Any ideas? Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases,
whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that you
can't rise any higher than where you started, which I don't think is
what Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no gain".
And "reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh just by
missing out the accent.
Pipped again.
At the pass?
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I concur.
Would someone whom Pamela has not "killfiled" kindly pass on
my suggestion, "No pain no gain"?
Jerry has already, but the suggestion was his - so that he pipped you
at the _post_, literally.
That's some sort of Briticism that means nothing to me, whereas I
alluded to Browning.
CDB
2021-02-02 22:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to
express the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and
initially getting serious adverse effects but hours later
feeling better from its beneficial effects. I thought of
"see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects. Also it
gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case. Then ... I had in mind one
of those old toy cars which you strike along the ground to
spin some flywheel inside and then letting the car power
away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this. Any
ideas? Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might
be used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady
rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed
by soaring flight.
The problem with an image like that, if taken literally, is that
you can't rise any higher than where you started, which I don't
think is what Pamela wants.
Post by Paul Wolff
Or Pamela might find it easier to improvise on "no pain, no
gain". And "reculer pour mieux sauter" doesn't become Engli8sh
just by missing out the accent.
Pipped again.
At the pass?
At the past, more like. Could be a portmanteau.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
I don't think it's missing an accent.
I concur.
Would someone whom Pamela has not "killfiled" kindly pass on my
suggestion, "No pain no gain"?
Ken Blake
2021-02-01 23:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to imply
an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
I thought a ski jump was an initial plunge followed by a crash with
multiple broken bones.
--
Ken
Sam Plusnet
2021-02-02 21:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can you help?  I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
 I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
 Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily.  However I can't find a phrase for this.
 Any ideas?
 Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and downs.
It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be used to
imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
I was thinking of a ski-jump image: an initial plunge followed by
soaring flight.
I thought a ski jump was an initial plunge followed by a crash with
multiple broken bones.
Sore like (Eddie) the Eagle.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Pamela
2021-02-01 23:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative
effects, which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting
the car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for
this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
Roller coaster is close to the experience but it too suggests repeated
cycles rather than a single one.
Quinn C
2021-02-02 00:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express
the idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative
effects, which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting
the car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for
this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
In my view, a "see saw" implies a repeated series of ups and
downs. It's far from perfect, but a roller coaster ride might be
used to imply an initial plunge followed by a steady rise.
Roller coaster is close to the experience but it too suggests repeated
cycles rather than a single one.
"Getting over the (initial) hump" is not uncommon as a description, but
it describes an initial slow-down rather than a speed-up. Also, it seems
that it may suggest "high" in the context of drugs.
--
9/11 was pretty much the 9/11 of the falafel business.
-- Abed Nadir on Community
occam
2021-02-02 15:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Can you help? I'm trying to write s report and want to express the
idea of taking a medicine or supplement and initially getting
serious adverse effects but hours later feeling better from its
beneficial effects.
I thought of "see saw" but that doesn't suggest adverse effects.
Also it gives exactly equal time to positive and negative effects,
which is not usually the case.
Then ... I had in mind one of those old toy cars which you strike
along the ground to spin some flywheel inside and then letting the
car power away merrily. However I can't find a phrase for this.
Any ideas?
Metaphors, similes, catchy phrases, whatever.
I have not read all the intermediate posts, so apologies if this
suggestion has already come up.

"V-shaped recovery" is what the press used when coming out of the first
wave of covid. It describes a bottoming out, and a sharp recovery. If a
'V' is too abrupt for U, use a "U-shaped...etc"
Joy Beeson
2021-02-05 01:36:07 UTC
Permalink
This thread reminds me of a comic strip I read not too long ago -- but
long enough that I have no citation.

Characters of of different species are conversing. One comments that
his people also use the expression "bend the knee" -- but it means
"get ready to leap into battle".
--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
Stefan Ram
2021-02-05 01:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Characters of of different species are conversing. One comments that
his people also use the expression "bend the knee" -- but it means
"get ready to leap into battle".
|"Be serious. You and all the other puppeteers have been
|making the same wrong assumption. A puppeteer instinctively
|turns to run from danger. Right?"
|
|"Yes, Louis."
|
|"Wrong. A puppeteer instinctively turns away from danger.
|It's to free his hind leg for action. That hoof makes a
|deadly weapon, Nessus."
|
Niven
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