Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer

[Andreas Kohlbach]

  You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
  the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
  could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
  next door of course ............

Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
"tye" with "the", then wait :-D
It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
computer vendors by that time, they were starting.

That was Spain at that time?

Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.

Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s. Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.

[...]

  Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
  store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
  capture, but it's just not the same somehow  :-)

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.

X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

  You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
  the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
  could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
  next door of course ............

Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
"tye" with "the", then wait :-D
It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
computer vendors by that time, they were starting.

That was Spain at that time?

More or less, dates are confusing. Well, the dates when the Amstrad
started selling is known, must be on wikipedia.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s.

Yes indeed.

And electronic component shops that besides oscilloscopes could sell you
a computer. Ah, HAM stuff shops, too.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.

:-D

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[...]

  Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
  store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
  capture, but it's just not the same somehow  :-)

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.

Wow.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.

If you are interested in vintage computers (as you are apparently) I
highly recommend you do.

Although many articles are about American history which might not be that
interesting for us Europeans, there is for example another thread about
Clive Sinclair, as well as other subjects like "British
computers". Traffic is may be 10-20 articles a day with days of 0 in
between.

F'up poster (don't need to subscribe to "my group" ;-)

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
[]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found

I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?

My googlfu is weak.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
comp.os.linux.misc.

Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a
Wikipedia page not even exists.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
[]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found

I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?
My googlfu is weak.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
comp.os.linux.misc.

Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.

I have it at home, but not in my laptop, which is ancient and already
too loaded. I may try.

As a general rule, I don't like moving a thread from one group to
another, as people can be left out. Adding another group is ok.

[Peter Flass]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

  You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
  the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
  could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
  next door of course ............

Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
"tye" with "the", then wait :-D
It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
computer vendors by that time, they were starting.

That was Spain at that time?

More or less, dates are confusing. Well, the dates when the Amstrad
started selling is known, must be on wikipedia.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s.

Yes indeed.
And electronic component shops that besides oscilloscopes could sell you
a computer. Ah, HAM stuff shops, too.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.

:-D

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[...]

  Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
  store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
  capture, but it's just not the same somehow  :-)

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to the
sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be pretty
robust.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers

I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.

[Rich]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make
sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
pretty robust.

At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
simple format:

Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php

132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).

The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.

So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.

[Charlie Gibbs]

Post by Rich

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
pretty robust.

At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
motor power on and off.

I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
it was more reliable (but not much faster).

[Peter Flass]

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Rich

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
pretty robust.

At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
motor power on and off.

I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette drive
that it didn’t do this!

Post by Charlie Gibbs
I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
it was more reliable (but not much faster).

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Rich

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
pretty robust.

At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
motor power on and off.

I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette drive
that it didn’t do this!

I have a foggy memory that it used the switch on/off wires of the
microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.

That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
Learned to program on z80.

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Rich

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
experiment, to find out.

There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer
Buffs" <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard
of before. They sent program data via audio the audience
record. When I found the show on Youtube I tested that
(extracted the audio at that position) and ran the resulting
WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It
my amazement it worked.

Wow.

Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format.
Due to the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format
had to be pretty robust.

At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was
https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a
control byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the
checksum is just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other
bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift
keying, with 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format
was hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that
the cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes
it worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading
things all over again sometimes magically had them work.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I
broke into their motor circuits and built a control box that would
use the cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to
switch 110-volt motor power on and off.

I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette
drive that it didn’t do this!

I have a foggy memory that it used the switch on/off wires of the
microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.
That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.

Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin cassette recorder.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
Learned to program on z80.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200

[]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a
builtin cassette recorder.

--
Evil Sinner!

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic

I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
-- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\

Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200

[]

Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
cassette recorder.

-- Evil Sinner!

[Andrea Croci]

Same here. I so much hate having to scroll down to read what I want to
read, that could be just there for me to see.

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic

I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
-- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\

Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200

[]

Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
cassette recorder.

-- Evil Sinner!

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\d

Post by Andrea Croci
Same here. I so much hate having to scroll down to read what I want to
read, that could be just there for me to see.

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic

I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
-- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\

Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200

[]

Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
cassette recorder.

-- Evil Sinner!

[Aragorn]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P

1. Your signature delimiter is broken. It should be
"dash dash space", not "dash dash".

2. The signature should be no longer than four lines.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Corrected.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P

1. Your signature delimiter is broken. It should be
"dash dash space", not "dash dash".
2. The signature should be no longer than four lines.

[Aragorn]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Corrected.

Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
replying to.

Most people on Usenet are subscribed to more than one newsgroup. Your
style of quoting makes that into a nightmare every time they stumble
upon your posts.

Usenet netiquette and convention stipulate that you would sbip the
irrelevant quoted content from your replies and that you write your own
replies underneath the remaining paragraphs in an interleaved fashion.

Any deviation from that standard makes the Usenet experience only
harder for everyone else, and needlessly so, because it really doesn't
cost any effort to do it right.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Corrected.

Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
replying to.

Ok, I AM BACK TO SANITY.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Why just four lines?
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P

1. Your signature delimiter is broken. It should be
"dash dash space", not "dash dash".
2. The signature should be no longer than four lines.

[Aragorn]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Why just four lines?

Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.

[J. Clarke]

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Why just four lines?

Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.

Geez, just plonk the twit.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Why just four lines?

Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.

Geez, just plonk the twit.

Score file or kill file or filter is for weak minded, ones that could
not stand what is written :P
Just don't reply and relax, it's much better exercize :P

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Aragorn

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Why just four lines?

Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.

understood. Will just quote on what i am replying...

[yamas]

UNDER '--', SIGNATURE

IOW, you're a moron. THAT, is NOT what a signature is, nor how you
construct one!!!

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by yamas

UNDER '--', SIGNATURE

IOW, you're a moron. THAT, is NOT what a signature is, nor how you
construct one!!!

Thanks, for compliment, is this now OK?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

Post by yamas

UNDER '--', SIGNATURE

IOW, you're a moron. THAT, is NOT what a signature is, nor how you
construct one!!!

Thanks, for compliment, is this now OK?

the fact that thunderbird deletes it, suggests that it is

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.

Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)

?

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.

That only happens when people don't trim quoted text appropriately.
If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.

Outlook (Express) can be configured to put the cursor below the
quote. Default is top posting thought. One of the countless annoying
"features" of it. Am amazed, that people today still use Outlook.

F'up2 comp.os.linux.misc, although it's off topic in either group.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT

Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.

At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.

[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"

or "Out House".

[Charlie Gibbs]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT

Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.

At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.

[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"

or "Out House".

My analogy to this is a memo that gets sent around the office.
When you receive it, you photocopy the whole thing, staple your
reply to the top, and pass it on. Each time it comes back to you
you have another copy of the whole damned thing, growing thicker
every time. And all of those copies would be filling up everyone's
filing cabinets. Worst of all, trying to read such a monstrosity
from the beginning (i.e. bottom up) is a nightmare. If books were
printed that way, they would start with the last chapter, followed
by the second-to-last one, all the way down to the first chapter,
which appears at the end. Reading such a book in order would be a
supreme pain in the ass.

I realize that this habit has gotten so ingrained that it'll
probably never be eradicated. But I don't have to like it.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT

Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.

At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.

Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

<...>

Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the point of
the new reply rather than at the start of the message when reading new
messages.

It is easy in VIM, just gq}, you have formated text and cursor position, BOTH.

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the replies to
be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread. Interleaved
replies and snipping in that context is completely wrong it destroys
essential information.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the replies to
be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread. Interleaved
replies and snipping in that context is completely wrong it destroys
essential information.

This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.

Especially when there are several paragraphs covering different topics in
an article it should be easier for everybody to post replies to each
topic after every paragraph.

But then...

<https://what-is-what.com/what_is/top_posting.html>

| Top posting is the practice of placing the reply text to an email at
| the top of the message being returned, with the original message
| quoted below. Although most mail clients encourage top posting by
| automatically placing the cursor at the beginning of the message
| editor, the practice is often considered rude and against the rules
| of netiquette. In fact, RFC 1855 specifically states that the quoted
| message be above the reply text (and trimmed appropriately). While
| not binding, the RFC conventions are considered the de-facto
| standard in netiquette and non-compliance is regarded as arrogant
| and rude in many veteran Internet communities.

So it might just be us veterans complaining about top posting?

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:06:45 -0400

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the
replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
wrong it destroys essential information.

This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.

Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:27:01 -0400

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.

Microsoft failed to mention this small detail that to its customers. ;-)

I think they shout it from the rooftops to their big customers, the
ones that buy the big fat support contracts. Microsoft don't really care
about the home users - the PC vendors are their customers there.

[Peter Flass]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:06:45 -0400

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the
replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
wrong it destroys essential information.

This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.

Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.

Oh, it was *designed*?

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:28:23 -0700, Peter Flass

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:06:45 -0400

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the
replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
wrong it destroys essential information.

This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.

Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.

Oh, it was *designed*?

Did somebody add NNTP support to Outlook when I wasn't looking?

[Bud Frede]

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:06:45 -0400

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the
replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
wrong it destroys essential information.

This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.

Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.

Oh, it was *designed*?

I think it's actually the result of much work by a series of dung
beetles. :-)

I was forced to use it at a couple of workplaces. It was astonishing how
bad it was, given that Microsoft had been developing it (polishing a
turd?) for so many years. Of course, as of 2017 it still had major bugs
that had been reported to MS at least as far back as 2000. (Somewhere I
have the bug reports, but it's not worth looking for them at this
point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
don't care.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Bud Frede
Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
don't care.

Designed to sell, but not to work

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Bud Frede
point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
don't care.

They are paying low cost programmers, and save on engineers because
they are gready...

[Richard Kettlewell]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.

You have missed the point - in this context you want the replies to be
at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread.

Anyone added to the discussion late has to read all the context
backwards. Speaking as someone is quite often added to discussions half
way through, that’s the opposite of what I want.

Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely wrong
it destroys essential information.

Interleaving and putting the new material at the top aren’t the only
options.

[Jeff Gaines]

On 24/09/2021 in message

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.

That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.

Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
read top to bottom.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 24 Sep 2021 21:05:57 GMT

Post by Jeff Gaines
On 24/09/2021 in message

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.

That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical

Correct, more to the point it is direct email not mailing list
email.

Post by Jeff Gaines
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact

Mailing list or USENET correct. My point was that Outlook is not
designed for mailing lists or USENET it is designed for direct email in a
corporate setting where top posting and full quotes are appropriate in
complete contrast to USENET and mailing lists where they are not.

[Bud Frede]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 24 Sep 2021 21:05:57 GMT

Post by Jeff Gaines
On 24/09/2021 in message

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.

That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical

Correct, more to the point it is direct email not mailing list
email.

Post by Jeff Gaines
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact

Mailing list or USENET correct. My point was that Outlook is not
designed for mailing lists or USENET it is designed for direct email in a
corporate setting where top posting and full quotes are appropriate in
complete contrast to USENET and mailing lists where they are not.

They're not appropriate for replying via e-mail to various ticketing
systems either. I run into this with clients a lot.


I think that, for business use, it would be better to put e-mail
messages into some sort of central database and allow people to access
previous replies in a conversation there (what a novel idea!), rather
than having e-mail messages accrete into thousand-pagers where your
fingers go numb if you try to scroll back to a reply near the beginning.

Exchange uses some sort of database for its mailstore. Too bad they
don't encourage its use instead of just vomiting the entire contents of
a conversation thread into each and every reply.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 08:57:49 -0400

Post by Bud Frede
I think that, for business use, it would be better to put e-mail
messages into some sort of central database and allow people to access
previous replies in a conversation there (what a novel idea!), rather
than having e-mail messages accrete into thousand-pagers where your
fingers go numb if you try to scroll back to a reply near the beginning.

The only catch with that is that for business purposes you need
circulation control - at least some people think so and they may be right.

OTOH in the last couple of years with everybody working from home
Slack threads have tended to replace email for a lot of things and they do
work that way - it's a pity that the database belongs to another company
but hey B2B is all the rage these days.

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

<...>

Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all read
top to bottom.

Sure, but to make people *THINK* on WHAT YOU ARE REPLYING is MORE IMPORTANT.

Yes, when I read a message, if if see I need a little bit context, I'll
read the short quotation above. I'll never read the long message bellow
and I'll consider the message as useless.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:55:07 GMT

Then, snipping is most important?

Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
brief.

[1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Then, snipping is most important?

Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
brief.
[1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.

Thanks, I'll remember, that just to aknowledge that I have read.

[D.J.]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:31:23 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:55:07 GMT

Then, snipping is most important?

Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
brief.
[1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.

Ah, the good old days of ftpmail for binaries for home computers.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by D.J.
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:31:23 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:55:07 GMT

Then, snipping is most important?

Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
brief.
[1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.

Ah, the good old days of ftpmail for binaries for home computers.

Yeah I remember using UUCP to exchange news and mail :P
it was somewhat difficult to setup without documentation :P

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 01:15:57 GMT

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
it was somewhat difficult to setup without documentation :P

Yep and you couldn't just google it and watch a youtube video of
instructions.

[D.J.]

On 24 Sep 2021 21:05:57 GMT, "Jeff Gaines"

Post by Jeff Gaines
On 24/09/2021 in message

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.

That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
read top to bottom.

We had outlook at my last job, we all bottom posted. My boss, and the
head boss, preferred it that way.

[Bud Frede]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT

Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.

At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.

[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"

or "Out House".

That's the one I've always used. Outhouse Express is then for people
with diarrhea.

[Rich]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.

A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of
English language text.

Q: Why should one not top post?

[Branimir Maksimovic]

On 2021-09-24, Rich <***@example.invalid> wrote:
<...>

A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
language text.
Q: Why should one not top post?

Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
<...>

A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
language text.
Q: Why should one not top post?

Please don't play Jeopardy here. ;-)

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.

What's wrong with that?

If you reply in between the lines people can *easily* figure out what the
previous poster relates to.

When you otherwise have a large quote covering different topics but just
top post a reply on top of it, it's hard to figure out what the reply
refers to exactly.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.folklore.computers.]

OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P

Thanks, perfect. Thank you.
Well, leave an empty line between the quote an your text.

Like this?

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.folklore.computers.]

OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P

Thanks, perfect. Thank you.
Well, leave an empty line between the quote an your text.

Like this?

Yes, like this. :-)

[Stéphane CARPENTIER]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
<...>

A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
language text.
Q: Why should one not top post?

Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.

That's the purpose of removing everything out of context. Because usenet
is an asynchronous media, when you read the answer a week after, it can
be good to have a little context. It avoid the need to chose between
reading again the all message and reading nothing of it.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Stéphane CARPENTIER

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

Post by Rich
Q: Why should one not top post?

Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.

That's the purpose of removing everything out of context. Because usenet
is an asynchronous media, when you read the answer a week after, it can
be good to have a little context. It avoid the need to chose between
reading again the all message and reading nothing of it.

OK. LEARNED.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

OK, I am learning, bit NOT TOP POSTING, NOTE '--' SIGNATURE :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.

Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)

Post by Branimir Maksimovic
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.

That only happens when people don't trim quoted text appropriately.
If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"

[Andreas Kohlbach]

I don;t top post, notice '--', SIGNATURE.

Then what is this if not a top post?

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

'--' is also no valid signature delimiter. '-- ' (note the appended space
character).

F'up2 poster.

[gareth evans]

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet,
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet,
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

[Dave Garland]

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

Touché

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Dave Garland

Post by Branimir Maksimovic

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
didn't do it last time, mea culpa).

Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
happy.

great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.

Touché

It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.
But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly formatted text
out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To begin
to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
before letting it flutter out to the net.


bliss - Your tag lines (k) were stolen!
(more) There is a puff of smoke!

Quaff a potion of See Invisible.
Smeagol is at it again.
Quaff a potion of Speed.
Pretend you haven't eeen him.
Wait a turn until he tries for these lines.
The smite him with your enchanted dagger...

[Branimir Maksimovic]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Pretend you haven't eeen him.
Wait a turn until he tries for these lines.
The smite him with your enchanted dagger...

Great allegory :P

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Dave Garland
Touché

It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.
But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly
formatted text out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To
begin
to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
before letting it flutter out to the net.

You can always set an Expire line in the header otherwise. ;-)

This article should evaporate from the usenet on
27 Sep 2021 23:59:00 -0400 to never be seen again.

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Dave Garland
Touché

It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.

I haven't noticed any issue in my Thunderbird

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly
formatted text out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To
begin
to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
before letting it flutter out to the net.

You can always set an Expire line in the header otherwise. ;-)
This article should evaporate from the usenet on
27 Sep 2021 23:59:00 -0400 to never be seen again.

We'll see :-)

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Dave Garland
Touché

It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.

I haven't noticed any issue in my Thunderbird

Me neither in Gnus.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly
formatted text out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To
begin
to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
before letting it flutter out to the net.

You can always set an Expire line in the header otherwise. ;-)
This article should evaporate from the usenet on
27 Sep 2021 23:59:00 -0400 to never be seen again.

We'll see :-)

Or not see (after that date ;-).