EMs kick New Stern butt

[c***@provide.net]

I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)

So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.

Here's the paid audits:
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)

So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!

Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.

For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:
http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm

Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

[seymour.shabow]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!

FD was the first of my games by far for me to rack 500 plays up on.
They had it down right in those days and before by just whetting your
appetite so much that you HAD to play another game.

-scott CARGPB#29

[Ace]

Actually if the op's would do what you are doing then I bet we would get
more people playing pins and I bet that in the coming weeks the new Sterns
earn more money then they did before you put the FD in. I believe people
will say man I used to play that FD back in the day. After a couple of
games they will try out the new Sterns. FD will still make more because it
is a bring back the old days thing. We all would like to go back to the
days we started playing. Lets just hope it doen't wear off in a couple of
weeks.

Post by seymour.shabow

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!

FD was the first of my games by far for me to rack 500 plays up on.
They had it down right in those days and before by just whetting your
appetite so much that you HAD to play another game.
-scott CARGPB#29

[Bill Heatherly]

I know a guy here in Eastern Pa. that operates games and had the same
result. He has a location with 6 dot matrix Willima/Bally games and
put an old EM in there and the EM has consistantly brought in more
money.
Bill

[j***@comcast.net]

I wonder if there a lot of people (casual pin players) who might be
put off by the apparent complexity of the newer DMD games, or if there
are a lot of guys 40 plus walking by who happen to see these old EM
games that they haven't seen in years and are like "COOL!", and they
drop some quarters in and play a few games.

When I went to the arcade at Cedar Point in Sandusky Ohio last year, I
expected to find a bunch of newer DMD games, but to my surprise they
had a row of some of my favorite EMs. I couldn't believe it. My wife
and son had to drag me out of there on 2 occasions, because I wouldn't
stop playing them.

At any rate, it's cool that the EMs are seeing some plays on location.

Jeff

[Gott Lieb?]

A friend of mine put some EMs out, and they did surprisingly well.
There were no solid state machines at this location, so it's tough to
do a side-by-side comparison. However, talking to other guys who
route newer games, they don't do quite as well. I don't know if it's
the nostalgia effect, the cost per game, or if flat layouts are just
easier for patrons to figure out the rules faster. It's always been
my opinion that the newer games intimidate potential players.

You're *thinking* about an OXO? What gives? ;-)

Jim

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

[Vic Camp]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

Maybe the EM is just easier to understand how to play compared to the
newer Stern games and that's what the general public wants in a
pinball machine.

[BlueMalibu]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

Yep. At Marvin't there are 6 Sterns and a GTB ElDorado. The Eldorado
gets played a lot. It doesn't earn the most but only because it 25
cents per game and the top earner is 75 cents per game.

The nostalgia effect is huge. I see people in Marvin's just gush
over the EM and say things like "I used to play this in the Navy."
Puts a BIG SMILE on peoples faces.

Also have found that kids like the simplicity of the game. Rules like
"see if you can knock down all the targets and win a free game" are
very appealing to kids.

Parker

[John in WI]

It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

[c***@provide.net]

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

[cody chunn]

Yes but players don't care what the games cost, only how much it is to play.
Coming here and saying what you did without stating the EM was
half-priced-to-play is misleading.

Make them all the same price to play and then come back and tell us what an
even playfield results in.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

[Brian]

It's too bad that EMs can't provide you with the assortment of audit
information that a SS machine can. Maybe what you're seeing is a
temporary blip as people try out or experience again an old-school
machine, only to realize what drain monsters some of those games can
be. Sinbad was one of our favorites back in the day because at least
the average person stood a fighting chance for extended gameplay
(which doesn't really help operators). Tricky thing, the balance
between earnings and gameplay.

[c***@provide.net]

In my original post i CLEARLY stated the
cost for one play on each game!
please read original post.

Post by cody chunn
Yes but players don't care what the games cost, only how much it is to play.
Coming here and saying what you did without stating the EM was
half-priced-to-play is misleading.
Make them all the same price to play and then come back and tell us what an
even playfield results in.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

[cody chunn]

I did read the original post. I read the title too, which is what I was
commenting on. Kind of the ole bait and switch. Would they "kick butt" at
the same price? Your title is misleading by omission.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4



<***@provide.net> wrote in message news:64329def-149b-43a3-abc6-***@m12g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
In my original post i CLEARLY stated the
cost for one play on each game!
please read original post.

Post by cody chunn
Yes but players don't care what the games cost, only how much it is to play.
Coming here and saying what you did without stating the EM was
half-priced-to-play is misleading.
Make them all the same price to play and then come back and tell us what an
even playfield results in.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

[kirb]

Post by cody chunn
I did read the original post. I read the title too, which is what I was
commenting on. Kind of the ole bait and switch. Would they "kick butt" at
the same price? Your title is misleading by omission.

Bait and switch when he gave all the info? Misleading by omission?
That's asking a lot out of the subject.

Clay's sample range is a bit low and isn't apples and apples (should
have tested this theory with all titles being fresh to the location),
but he didn't leave out any details.

Who cares what the parameters are as long as you can earn? The ROI on
the EM is going to be far greater at a nickel, let alone a quarter.

Bottom line- is it better to put a new Stern out for $0.50 per play or
an EM for $0.25 in the long run? The short dollar says the EM will
get paid for quicker and earn more money for the op. This would be
location dependant, but it would be much easier stock locations with
pins...

I'll even say the EM is less of a pain to keep going.

Kirb

[Lloyd Olson]

ROI will go out the window if you factor in service calls. ( for any pin
there figuring what they are earning ) clay posted some time back this
location was aways away from him and he couldn't get there often. If gas
goes back up, and time used, that is going to be some costly service calls
when you have three pins doing $4 a day or less. LTG :)


"kirb" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4f3149bd-a2b4-4bc0-b1da-***@e25g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

Who cares what the parameters are as long as you can earn? The ROI on
the EM is going to be far greater at a nickel, let alone a quarter.

Bottom line- is it better to put a new Stern out for $0.50 per play or
an EM for $0.25 in the long run? The short dollar says the EM will
get paid for quicker and earn more money for the op. This would be
location dependant, but it would be much easier stock locations with
pins...

I'll even say the EM is less of a pain to keep going.

Kirb

[ldnayman]

Post by c***@provide.net

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

But how can it be a level playing field? The fast draw cost $150!!!

It's kicking the Stern's ass on location. It'll be paid for in a
couple weeks wheras the Stern will probably pay itself off when he
sells it.

I have a Bally Big Show at a bar. Now this is one of the crappiest
games around, standard early 70s Bally banality. And for THREE YEARS
it has routinely brought it in at least $20 a week. I had $600 in
that game.

Do the math - it's been paid off for years and it's all profit.

[kirb]

Post by ldnayman
But how can it be a level playing field? The fast draw cost $150!!!

To be on a level playing field, the Stern at $3,500 would need 7000
plays to break even. The EM would have to have the games priced at
$0.02 per play to match that ROI.

Throwing some classics back on location might help some ops get income
where there once was none on top of having less $$ out in the field.

My op friend in the sticks still routes EMs and does very well. He
will throw out 70's games, wedgeheads, bowlers, etc...He still says
they do well for him. He wishes someone would repop a small ball
bowler as these have a small foot print and do VERY well for him at $.
25 per play.

Pool tables and CD jukes are still his top earners. He really wanted
me to develop a retrofit kit for CD jukes that replaced the players
with flash based memory cards. This would cut his juke service calls
by 90% when you get rid of the moving parts.

Kirb

[a***@hotmail.com]

Be careful if you do this... Touch Tunes, AMI and even eCast are
encouraging snitches to turn in locations with modified juke boxes
that have bootleg stored recordings that royalaties are not being
payed on. For a reward of course.

He really wanted

Post by kirb
me to develop a retrofit kit for CD jukes that replaced the players
with flash based memory cards. This would cut his juke service calls
by 90% when you get rid of the moving parts.
Kirb

[BlueMalibu]

Post by c***@provide.net

Post by John in WI
It would be interesting to see what happens if you price the Sterns at
.25 per game like the EM.

I don't think you can even price a new stern below 50 cents a game.
i will check that out. but at 25 cents a game for a $3500 game,
wow that's kind of a hit to the owner's pocketbook.

Hmm,

At Marvin's there is the mix of 75, 50 cents and the EM at 25 cents.
The EM has been there a couple of months and is consistent in the
number of plays it is averaging. So I think the concept holds (at
Marvins anyway) that an EM will be played and will earn its keep.

If you lowered the Sterns to 25 cents I am sure the plays would go up
but earning would likely suffer. Would the EM plays also fall?
Probably some. But it is EARNINGs location games are after.

Once you lower to 25 newer cents it will be tough to go back. I
wouldn't do it. Those who are price conscience can play the 25 cents
games. Those that are not so much can play the others. You present a
choice and they can choose. People can understand the price
differential also. 50 cents for SM is a bargain.

Clay, you should put in a change machine though!

Parker

[John in WI]

Post by BlueMalibu
If you lowered the Sterns to 25 cents I am sure the plays would go up
but earning would likely suffer. Would the EM plays also fall?
Probably some. But it is EARNINGs location games are after.

Well...that would depend on HOW MUCH the plays would go up. 20 plays at
25 cents per out earns 3 plays at 50 cents each.

[m***@mindspring.com]

Howdy,

This posts does bring up an suggestion that is made every so often
regarding Stern. Produce a pinball machine that harkens back to the
classic period. There's Classic Coke, Classic Jeep Cherokee, why not
Classic Stern (SS). I realize they won't produce EMs but they could
produce EM style as an SS.

Not everyone is up to the challenge of a multi-level, multi-playfield
pinball machine.

MrMarco

[Les Manley]

Post by m***@mindspring.com
Howdy,
This posts does bring up an suggestion that is made every so often
regarding Stern.  Produce a pinball machine that harkens back to the
classic period.  There's Classic Coke, Classic Jeep Cherokee, why not
Classic Stern (SS).  I realize they won't produce EMs but they could
produce EM style as an SS.
Not everyone is up to the challenge of a multi-level, multi-playfield
pinball machine.
MrMarco

I think the difference has more to do with the price of the EM and the
newness of the machine to the location than anything else. There are
many people who won't pay more than $.25 for a game, be it right or
wrong. At $.25 per game, you will do better because there are so many
people out there who simply would not play if it costs more than
that. You can get twice as many games on the EM than on the Stern, so
any cash strapped kid or parent will gravitate to that if they just
want to kill a little time.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by c***@provide.net
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!

Obviously it's the licensed theme that's pulling them in.

When Stern makes simpler modern games we complain - maybe the problem
is they haven't clearly distinguished their product line - is it the
case that their shallow games out earn things like LoTR on location?

Maybe we should just define simple as "low time per ball". Really, a
game is never going to earn that much when you can only play two games
an hour.

It would be fun to see if Crazy Carl's security TV shows who is
playing those machines, and how they are reacting to the choice you
are offering them.

[CornCob]

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by c***@provide.net
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!

Obviously it's the licensed theme that's pulling them in.
When Stern makes simpler modern games we complain - maybe the problem
is they haven't clearly distinguished their product line - is it the
case that their shallow games out earn things like LoTR on location?

True enough, we all complain when the games are to easy and have no
depth but now days we're all thinking about how these games will be in
our homes. LOTR is a tough one to beat for the theme alone is a
strong crowd puller.

Post by a***@gmail.com
Maybe we should just define simple as "low time per ball".  Really, a
game is never going to earn that much when you can only play two games
an hour.
It would be fun to see if Crazy Carl's security TV shows who is
playing those machines, and how they are reacting to the choice you
are offering them.

I'd bet mostly people who simply wanted to experience an older game.

Ping

[Ron, (Boatcat)]

I think you need a larger sample size than a few days and 33 games.
All you would need is one kid with a roll of quarters who likes
pirates and your stats are blown. If my Nephews were there they would
not have left Spiderman or any other super hero game.

A lot of good points mentioned here
but thus far, the one above makes the most
sence to me. Needs a much longer period of
"Test Time."
I think another area of interest is the
type of location. I don't think a video store is
the type of place anyone enters with the idea
that they're going to be there entertaining
themselves for a while. It also probably has
the type of older clientele, (passing through
renting a few vids), that would have nostalgic
values to the older games. Putting all 3 in a
lounge of 20-30 year olds and pricing them
the same would probably reveal the real
outcome........

[Josh A.]

Post by CornCob
I'd bet mostly people who simply wanted to experience an older game.

Ron in upstate NY had similar good results with a '78 Lost World he
put on location in Fair Haven last year. That's an early SS, but
still.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/msg/be605a467c3ff8d6?hl=en

[t***@myfairpoint.net]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

Yes, but you must factor in repair cost and labor into all equations.

-Tom

[Donnie Barnes]

Post by t***@myfairpoint.net
Yes, but you must factor in repair cost and labor into all equations.

For many of us that might be a big deal, but I'm having trouble believing
that *Clay* takes any longer to fix an EM than an SS or vice versa. In
fact, it seems more likely the SS might end up taking more repair time on
average because of the larger array of parts one might not have on hand
(like a spare board). Clay's likely to be able to put his hands on the
EM parts he needs much faster.


--Donnie

[kirb]

Post by Donnie Barnes

Post by t***@myfairpoint.net
Yes, but you must factor in repair cost and labor into all equations.

For many of us that might be a big deal, but I'm having trouble believing
that *Clay* takes any longer to fix an EM than an SS or vice versa.  In
fact, it seems more likely the SS might end up taking more repair time on
average because of the larger array of parts one might not have on hand
(like a spare board).  Clay's likely to be able to put his hands on the
EM parts he needs much faster.
--Donnie
--http://www.carefreeway.com

My collection has 8 DMD, 1 sys 11, and 9 EMs of the vintage Clay put
on location. My history (and Clay has confirmed this as well) is that
EMs are FAR cheaper and requre LESS work to keep going in the long run
than a WMS DMD game. I assume the same is true for Stern (even more so
with the higher parts cost of Stern). ROIs on EMs can be weeks instead
of months or years.

EM parts are easier to keep on hand because you only need a few rubber
rings, and maybe a flipper kit- all are found at PBR and none game
specific. They just run and run. A problem often requires a quick
adjustment or cleaning. The key is to spend the proper time going
through a 35 year old game before you put it on route.

Not sure if the game will out-earn in the long run, but there sure is
a market for simple fun to play games.

Kirb

[ldnayman]

Post by Donnie Barnes

Post by t***@myfairpoint.net
Yes, but you must factor in repair cost and labor into all equations.

For many of us that might be a big deal, but I'm having trouble believing
that *Clay* takes any longer to fix an EM than an SS or vice versa. �In
fact, it seems more likely the SS might end up taking more repair time on
average because of the larger array of parts one might not have on hand
(like a spare board). �Clay's likely to be able to put his hands on the
EM parts he needs much faster.

My 1973 Bally Big Show requires about 2 service calls a year. In every
case it has been a loose wire.

[Taxman]

I think you need a larger sample size the a few days and 33 games.
All you would need is one kid with a roll of quarters who likes
pirates and your stats are blown. If my Nephews were there they would
not have left Spiderman or any other super hero game.

It could be that it is simpler or it could be someone who loved Fast
Draw as a kid came by.

Make sure they are all working, all priced the same and come back
after a few hundered games are played.

Dave "Taxman"

[Don H.]

I'd play the EM too.. then go play the Sterns. For most of the
players I'm betting it was the rarity factor of finding an EM in a
locations.

A similar example:
You go to Crazy Carl's this afternoon to rent a movie. He has a
special going in the parking lot. You get to take a test drive in a
2009 Mustang or a hot '57 Chevy coup. Which one are you going for
first? :-)

- Don

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

[gangstarr]

that is interesting and great you have those on location.
any time i have placed a new machine of any type on location, it earns
a high amount in a short period of time at first as well.
you can not assume on short time frames that it will consistantly win
that battle thow.

it also pends how long the other games have been in that location as
they may have been going downhill in earning or reaches a "norm" point
as they are played out.

you also have to consider "down time" and service calls. with an em,
those are bound to happen very frequently.

if its within an arcade or a location that the owner or operator is
close by or frequents often, that may be fine thow.

ps: id play all 3 pins there:0)

[kirb]

Post by gangstarr
you also have to consider "down time" and service calls. with an em,
those are bound to happen very frequently.

Not for a game that has been gone through properly. The frequency of
repairs on my EMs if far less than the DMDs I have. My EMs hardly ever
have the glass off and when they do the repair is quick and usually an
adjustment.

An EM will also play for a long time with minor problems with little
impact on game play. There are only a few that will lock the game up
and be unplayable.

Kirb

[Steve]

Back when I had a few games out on location, I saw
the same thing. The DMD games did well for a few
weeks, then tapered off. Early SS and EM pins did
much better overall and maintained earnings. The record
was a Sinbad that made $400 in one month
($.25/3balls).
Steve

[g***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

How bout put that FD EM at .75 a play. I would price it like a
current modern game, not like it was 1975 again.

[alexf]

Post by g***@hotmail.com

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

How bout put that FD EM at .75 a play. I would price it like a
current modern game, not like it was 1975 again.

Are sure it's about the money? I remember when I was around 10 seeing
Paragon and thinking, Wow I really want to play that. Of course you
would have to wait in line for awhile. I wonder how many kids will
wait in line to play CSI?
Alex

[kirb]

Post by alexf
Are sure it's about the money? I remember when I was around 10 seeing
Paragon and thinking, Wow I really want to play that. Of course you
would have to wait in line for awhile. I wonder how many kids will
wait in line to play CSI?

Kids have other entertainment options that are far more exciting than
pinball (to them)...

They also don't play 'kick the can' much anymore, either.

Kirb

[Tony Holdgate]

"Kids have other entertainment options that are far more exciting than
pinball (to them)...

They also don't play 'kick the can' much anymore, either.

Kirb"

You are right about pinballs- both my kids are competent players but prefer
video games. However I just finished a mame cocktail cabinet and put about
150 games on it. I can't get near it as the kids are on it all the time. I
also got an emulator running on the three PC's and we play Daytona and sega
rally together with sterring wheels and pedals on each one The Co-op thing
is what they like - playing together at the same time. They are not fond of
games where its seperate turns - and perhaps thats why pinball is not as
popular now. Linking games seems to be the attraction which surprises me
when Tourney doesn't work

Tony
CARGPB18

[Cliffy]

Post by c***@provide.net
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

You might also want to bring a bunch of quarter rolls to Carl so he has
the change for folks who need it. I, for one, never carry change in my
pocket, hate it. Maybe put a little sign on the games too stating that
change is available at the checkout counter. I'm sure Crazy Carl
wouldn't mind given the increased opportunity for traffic and sales.
Either that or put in a change machine :)

[mattyb]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

I think one of the points here is to consider your customer base
before placing a game. I'm guessing that people who still go to video
stores to rent movies are mostly middle-aged or older; just the type
who can relate to older pins. Put SM and Fastdraw in an Apple Computer
store and I'd bet SM pulls in alot more.

One other point. I can't understand why OPs still place games and
charge only 25 cents. Can't they see how this sabotages the price
point on new games? How it perpetuates the publics expectation that
pinball shouldn't cost more than chump change? Pinball needs to be
profitable to survive. If a game of pinball, any game of pinball,
isn't worth a measley 50 cents, then the future of pinball on route
and especially pinball manufacturing is surely headed for the grave.
MattyB.

[Lloyd Olson]

While you *hate* black rubber, has no bearing on your customer's preference.

48 hours is hardly a test, and a different game just put it. While EMs might
do better there, right now you are on pace if it keeps up of doing $3 a day.
Hardly kicking ass. And seeing what your other games are doing, your EMs
will degenerate to that level fast. LTG :)

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

[David Gersic]

Post by c***@provide.net
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)

You should crank up the price on the Fastdraw. I'd gladly pay $1/3 ball for
a working EM on location here.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by David Gersic

Post by c***@provide.net
2005SternPirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008SternSpiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)

You should crank up the price on the Fastdraw. I'd gladly pay $1/3 ball for
a workingEMon location here.
--
| David Gersic                            http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com|
| PEBKAC: "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair."                    |
|   Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info.    |

I guess if you can add a bill acceptor to an EM pin that would be
possible. Did Gottlieb ever make a 3 or 4 coin unit? I know they
offered a 2 coin unit. Otherwise an old Match unit could be modified
to accomplish this.

[BigChris]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
new Stern games was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the new Stern solidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005 Stern Pirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008 Stern Spiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

Been wanting to try this same experiment at a my local bowling alley.
Anyone have a GTB "300" or Top Score in decent shape near Ohio?

Chris

[Greg B]

Clay -

Great to see the FD is working fine and earning. Now how much of that
do I get for helping out?

I've got a nice Dealer's Choice you could put out there!

Greg B

[Mike M. in MI]

Simple solution...sell me SM and Tom V. will buy POTC.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@provide.net
I have a location in Walled Lake Michigan with
a new Spiderman and a new Pirates of the Carb.
It's a video store (Crazy Carl's, 1340 S. Commerce rd,
Commerce MI), so not a high volume arcade location.
In fact, the first 2 weeks of earning on these two
newSterngames was like $30. These new sterns
have white/red rubber by the way. (I just *hate*
black rubber.)
So for fun, i put a $150 Gottlieb Fast Draw
that I bought and cleaned up on location
next to the newSternsolidstates. Put the
game there friday night, and check on the
games yesterday (sunday). So that's 48 hours
of "on location" time.
2005SternPirates: 2 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
2008SternSpiderman: 3 games (50 cents/game, 3 balls)
1975 Gottlieb Fastdraw: 27 games (25 cents/game, 3 balls)
So basically the Fastdraw kicked solidstate ass!
Because of this, I bought a nice Gottlieb Jumpin Jacks
last night for $400, and i'll put that on location
at Crazy Carl's too. And I'm thinking about adding
an OXO and a Capt Fantastic to the mix too.
For reference, pictures of the Fastdraw are here:http://marvin3m.com/gtb/fastdraw.htm
Also if you go play the games, please rent a movie
from Crazy Carl. The last thing I want to happen is
Crazy Carl goes out of business!

As for the "I hate black rubber" comment; have you been hanging around
wit Tim A. again?