Gimp vs Photoshop

On Sunday 14 October 2018 23:30, root conveyed the following to
alt.os.linux.slackware...

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with
Gimp or any other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom
for a professional photographer?

I have no experience with PhotoShop, but I've been told by PhotoShop
die-hards that The Gimp is not as good. They may of course be biased by
their familiarity with PhotoShop and unfamiliarity with The Gimp. What
I do know is that The Gimp was from the onset intended to be used
professionally, and has indeed also already been used professionally.

Likewise, I also have no experience with Lightroom, but there is
GNU/Linux software called LightZone, which is supposed to be
professional darkroom software. I have it installed here, albeit that I
haven't actually used it yet so far ─ I'm not a professional
photographer by any means.

Hope this helps. ;)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

Michael Black

2018-10-15 00:47:18 UTC

GIMP has always been able to do what I needed, but then I don't really
count as a photographer.

But I've never used anything else, so GIMP is what I'm used to.

I think there are plugins that add function, a whole territory over there
that I haven't really paid attention to. Seems to be lots of room to
customize.

You used to be able to get books about using GIMP, I think the one I
bought at a clearance was "GIMP in 24 hours", but it was a tad old when I
got it. There may now be fewer such books about GIMP, the book market has
changed, so less about Linux seems to be in print.

Michael

root

2018-10-15 03:14:29 UTC

Post by Michael Black
You used to be able to get books about using GIMP, I think the one I
bought at a clearance was "GIMP in 24 hours", but it was a tad old when I
got it. There may now be fewer such books about GIMP, the book market has
changed, so less about Linux seems to be in print.
Michael

Thnaks, I have been able to download 3 Gimp books. I will show
them to my friend.

Henrik Carlqvist

2018-10-15 09:35:16 UTC

Post by Michael Black
You used to be able to get books about using GIMP, I think the one I
bought at a clearance was "GIMP in 24 hours", but it was a tad old when
I got it. There may now be fewer such books about GIMP, the book
market has changed, so less about Linux seems to be in print.
Michael

Thnaks, I have been able to download 3 Gimp books. I will show them to
my friend.

If your friend is a Windows user the right thing to do migt be to
download gimp for windows and let her try herself to see what she thinks
about it.

If she doesn't think that gimp is good enough and prefers to stick with
her current photoshop it is also possible to run photoshop in wine:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17&sClass=application

regards Henrik

root

2018-10-15 14:18:26 UTC

Post by Henrik Carlqvist

Post by Michael Black
You used to be able to get books about using GIMP, I think the one I
bought at a clearance was "GIMP in 24 hours", but it was a tad old when
I got it. There may now be fewer such books about GIMP, the book
market has changed, so less about Linux seems to be in print.
Michael

Thnaks, I have been able to download 3 Gimp books. I will show them to
my friend.

If your friend is a Windows user the right thing to do migt be to
download gimp for windows and let her try herself to see what she thinks
about it.

I am afraid to touch anything on her Windows machine. I have already set
up a linux machine for her she can run Gimp on that.

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
If she doesn't think that gimp is good enough and prefers to stick with
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17&sClass=application

For my friend the main problem with photoshop is the movement to the
cloud and a subscription form of payment. The learning curve for any
replacement is her biggest obstacle.

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
regards Henrik

As always thanks Henrik.

Peter Chant

2018-11-06 08:09:31 UTC

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
If your friend is a Windows user the right thing to do migt be to
download gimp for windows and let her try herself to see what she thinks
about it.

I am afraid to touch anything on her Windows machine. I have already set
up a linux machine for her she can run Gimp on that.

The trouble with that is that you are looking at her having to learn two
new environments at once.

root

2018-11-06 15:36:24 UTC

Post by Peter Chant

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
If your friend is a Windows user the right thing to do migt be to
download gimp for windows and let her try herself to see what she thinks
about it.

I am afraid to touch anything on her Windows machine. I have already set
up a linux machine for her she can run Gimp on that.

The trouble with that is that you are looking at her having to learn two
new environments at once.

Thanks for responding. She has sufficient experience with linux to be
able to run gimp.

Apparently the urgency to replace Photoshop/Lightroom has dwindled.
I asked her do a simple google search to find whether data files
were compatible between Gimp and Photoshop. I see that some are,
some are not but I don't know which she has.

I asked weeks ago and she hasn't got back to me.

Peter Chant

2018-11-06 18:27:03 UTC

Post by Peter Chant

Post by root
I am afraid to touch anything on her Windows machine. I have already set
up a linux machine for her she can run Gimp on that.

The trouble with that is that you are looking at her having to learn two
new environments at once.

Thanks for responding. She has sufficient experience with linux to be
able to run gimp.

Didn't know that.

Post by root
Apparently the urgency to replace Photoshop/Lightroom has dwindled.
I asked her do a simple google search to find whether data files
were compatible between Gimp and Photoshop. I see that some are,
some are not but I don't know which she has.
I asked weeks ago and she hasn't got back to me.

Well, she has a linux box with gimp on to play with, so, if interested
can do so at her own speed.

Jimmy Johnson

2018-10-15 10:01:26 UTC

I was certified in Photoshop, it was a extra class I took in college and
all the things I had to do for my final I can do using Gimp. I'm sure
your fried will catch on quick.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

root

2018-10-15 14:19:11 UTC

Post by Jimmy Johnson

I was certified in Photoshop, it was a extra class I took in college and
all the things I had to do for my final I can do using Gimp. I'm sure
your fried will catch on quick.

That is most encouraging. Thanks.

Jimmy Johnson

2018-10-15 18:19:41 UTC

Post by Jimmy Johnson

I was certified in Photoshop, it was a extra class I took in college and
all the things I had to do for my final I can do using Gimp. I'm sure
your fried will catch on quick.

That is most encouraging. Thanks.

A couple links for your friend to check out:
https://www.rileybrandt.com/2014/03/09/photoshop-to-gimp/
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/switch-photoshop-gimp/
Let them read and decide for them self.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

Rich

2018-10-15 10:48:37 UTC

This very heavily depends upon just how much of Photoshop's
capabilities your friend uses, as well as how much "aversion to change"
disease she exhibits.

If she expects GIMP to be a perfect clone of photoshop such that she
has zero learning to do in order to be productive (i.e., a huge level
of "aversion to change" disease) then she will have difficulty.

If she uses some of the very esoteric features of photoshop, then there
very well may be one or more features that GIMP simply does not do (or
do well or simply) and that might also impact her viewpoint.

But in *every* case where GIMP has an identical feature to Photoshop,
GIMP will likely differ in how it accomplishes the feature (or even in
"where" the control is found within the UI) all of which get in the way
of those expecting it to be a drop-in clone (i.e., those with "aversion
to change" disease).

So the best thing you can do is set her up with a copy of GIMP somehow
(either GIMP for windows on her existing system or a second system with
GIMP for Linux) and have her do a serious evaluation. Because in
reality only she can answer the question of "would GIMP be an
acceptable alternative to Photoshop" (and this assumes she does a real
evaluation instead of a knee jerk emotional reaction to change).

Zaphod Beeblebrox

2018-10-15 12:10:26 UTC

If she expects GIMP to be a perfect clone of photoshop such that she has
zero learning to do in order to be productive (i.e., a huge level of
"aversion to change" disease) then she will have difficulty.

Why doesn't Gimp look and work just like Photoshop?

Those of us who remember the look-n-feel copyright
lawsuits from the old days know very well that will
never happen, because of the screwed-up, mickey-mouse
copyright laws in the US and elsewhere.

Rich

2018-10-15 14:47:25 UTC

Post by Zaphod Beeblebrox

Post by Rich
If she expects GIMP to be a perfect clone of photoshop such that she
has zero learning to do in order to be productive (i.e., a huge
level of "aversion to change" disease) then she will have
difficulty.

Why doesn't Gimp look and work just like Photoshop?
Those of us who remember the look-n-feel copyright lawsuits from the
old days know very well that will never happen, because of the
screwed-up, mickey-mouse copyright laws in the US and elsewhere.

Yes, very much so.

This fact, however, does not stop those inflicted with "aversion to
change" disease from asking the "why can't it look, act, feel, and
otherwise be identical to X so I don't have to learn anything"
question.

root

2018-10-15 14:24:28 UTC

Post by Rich

I think everybody has such an aversion. I am certain she does.

Post by Rich
So the best thing you can do is set her up with a copy of GIMP somehow
(either GIMP for windows on her existing system or a second system with
GIMP for Linux) and have her do a serious evaluation. Because in
reality only she can answer the question of "would GIMP be an
acceptable alternative to Photoshop" (and this assumes she does a real
evaluation instead of a knee jerk emotional reaction to change).

My first avenue of exploration with Gimp will be to make certain it
can access her store of many many TB of pictures.

Rich

2018-10-15 14:49:32 UTC

Post by Rich

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom
for Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the
Adobe products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with
Gimp or any other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom for
a professional photographer?

This very heavily depends upon just how much of Photoshop's
capabilities your friend uses, as well as how much "aversion to
change" disease she exhibits.

I think everybody has such an aversion. I am certain she does.

Yes, the question we do not know (and you may not know) is where on the
aversion scale she resides.

You will quickly find out once you get her started using something other
than photoshop.

Post by root
My first avenue of exploration with Gimp will be to make certain it
can access her store of many many TB of pictures.

Yeah, if you can't get the Linux box you've setup to access her data
store, then you've found a non-starter (not GIMP related, however)
right there.

Richard Kettlewell

2018-10-15 13:07:18 UTC

Gimp doesn’t solve the same problems as Lightroom, so it’s not going to
be a very good replacement for it...

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Aragorn

2018-10-15 17:26:48 UTC

On Monday 15 October 2018 15:07, Richard Kettlewell conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...

Gimp doesn’t solve the same problems as Lightroom, so it’s not going
to be a very good replacement for it...

Then what about LightZone? It's supposed to be an alternative to
Lightroom the way GIMP is supposed to be an alternative to Photoshop.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

Richard Kettlewell

2018-10-15 19:25:16 UTC

Richard Kettlewell conveyed the following to alt.os.linux.slackware...

Gimp doesn’t solve the same problems as Lightroom, so it’s not going
to be a very good replacement for it...

Then what about LightZone? It's supposed to be an alternative to
Lightroom the way GIMP is supposed to be an alternative to Photoshop.

No idea l-)

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Aragorn

2018-10-15 19:46:17 UTC

On Monday 15 October 2018 21:25, Richard Kettlewell conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...

Richard Kettlewell conveyed the following to
alt.os.linux.slackware...

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom
for Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the
Adobe products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with
Gimp or any other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom
for a professional photographer?

Gimp doesn’t solve the same problems as Lightroom, so it’s not going
to be a very good replacement for it...

Then what about LightZone? It's supposed to be an alternative to
Lightroom the way GIMP is supposed to be an alternative to Photoshop.

No idea l-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightZone

It's written in Java, so it's pretty cross-platform. It also used to be
proprietary, but now it's available under a BSD license. ;)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

dillinger

2018-10-15 20:04:44 UTC

Post by Aragorn
On Monday 15 October 2018 21:25, Richard Kettlewell conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...

Richard Kettlewell conveyed the following to
alt.os.linux.slackware...

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom
for Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the
Adobe products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with
Gimp or any other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom
for a professional photographer?

Gimp doesn’t solve the same problems as Lightroom, so it’s not going
to be a very good replacement for it...

Then what about LightZone? It's supposed to be an alternative to
Lightroom the way GIMP is supposed to be an alternative to Photoshop.

No idea l-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightZone
It's written in Java, so it's pretty cross-platform. It also used to be
proprietary, but now it's available under a BSD license. ;)

Or have a look at Darktable: https://www.darktable.org/

Clark Smith

2018-10-15 14:09:51 UTC

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with Gimp or any
other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom for a
professional photographer?

I don't know. But it would be very nice if somebody could
enlighten us on this. Over the years, the common knowledge seems to have
developed that the Gimp is not an acceptable alternative to Photoshop.
When asked about the reasons, the gist of it seems to be that Photoshop
does CYMK, whereas the Gimp doesn't, and that seems to be essential to
professionals. I wouldn't know why. I am not saying it is nonsense - it
is just that I have been unable to understand why that is a deal breaker.
Other than this, the other reason is that people are used to doing things
the Photoshop way.

It would be great if some professional could please enlighten us.

Rich

2018-10-15 14:56:38 UTC

Post by Clark Smith

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with Gimp or any
other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom for a
professional photographer?

CMYK are the four basic colors for four color offset printing (i.e.,
professional level duplicating for huge distribution). So those
designing adverts and such for mass duplication likely need CMYK
separation support to submit the final product to print contractors.

GIMP does have CMYK separation support, at least the versions I have
have an option to create a CMYK separation as four layers. Maybe the
pro's want to natively work with an image stored as CMYK (so no need to
generate a separation at the end). I don't know if GIMP can natively
operate with a CMYK image (yet, such may be on the developers road map
for later).

Post by Clark Smith
I am not saying it is nonsense - it is just that I have been unable
to understand why that is a deal breaker.

Well, if one works with agencies that require CMYK data for duplication
purposes, one believes that such is a dealbreaker if an alternate does
not give you that output.

Post by Clark Smith
Other than this, the other reason is that people are used to doing
things the Photoshop way.

A lot can be explained by this. GIMP works different, so one focuses
on something that seems missing and elevates it as the reason it can't
be used, when the real reason is "I don't want to learn something new".

Jimmy Johnson

2018-10-15 18:15:48 UTC

Post by Rich

Post by Clark Smith

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products. She has marginal facility with linux but none with Gimp or any
other alternative to Photoshop.
Would Gimp be an acceptible alternative to Photoshop/Lightroom for a
professional photographer?

CMYK are the four basic colors for four color offset printing (i.e.,
professional level duplicating for huge distribution). So those
designing adverts and such for mass duplication likely need CMYK
separation support to submit the final product to print contractors.
GIMP does have CMYK separation support, at least the versions I have
have an option to create a CMYK separation as four layers. Maybe the
pro's want to natively work with an image stored as CMYK (so no need to
generate a separation at the end). I don't know if GIMP can natively
operate with a CMYK image (yet, such may be on the developers road map
for later).

Post by Clark Smith
I am not saying it is nonsense - it is just that I have been unable
to understand why that is a deal breaker.

Well, if one works with agencies that require CMYK data for duplication
purposes, one believes that such is a dealbreaker if an alternate does
not give you that output.

Post by Clark Smith
Other than this, the other reason is that people are used to doing
things the Photoshop way.

Rich, you sound like a windows user, what you're saying is to general
and can be applied to any thing Linux. Gimp help is great and anyone
who knows the terminology is way ahead of someone who don't know what
they are doing.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

notbob

2018-10-15 23:07:29 UTC

Post by Rich
CMYK are the four basic colors for four color offset printing (i.e.,
professional level duplicating for huge distribution).

CMYK has been an issue fer yrs. Also, PS is supposed to be 16 bit,
while GIMP remains 8 bit (last I heard).

I don't know all, but I bought "The Book of GIMP", when it first came
out. Much of it was incomplete and referred to the online GIMP manual.
which is totally incomplete and pretty much useless.

As usual, documentation on Linux stuff is lacking. I offered to be a
documentarian fer LibreCAD ....twice. I got zero response both times. 8|

nb

Peter Chant

2018-11-05 21:32:10 UTC

Post by Rich
CMYK are the four basic colors for four color offset printing (i.e.,
professional level duplicating for huge distribution).

CMYK has been an issue fer yrs. Also, PS is supposed to be 16 bit,
while GIMP remains 8 bit (last I heard).

Worth checking out Gimp 2.10. Bit depth up to 32 bit floating point.
However, still grey scale and RGB only. I wonder if printing is
becoming more of a niche interest compared to digital viewing?

Pete

notbob

2018-11-07 19:29:01 UTC

Post by Peter Chant
I wonder if printing is
becoming more of a niche interest compared to digital viewing?

If you do brochures, pamphlets, books, etc, it is! No "niche" to it.
Printers want Photoshop.

I've been trying to learn GIMP fer yrs. The info jes isn't available.

nb

Eli the Bearded

2018-11-07 19:40:23 UTC

Post by notbob

Post by Peter Chant
I wonder if printing is
becoming more of a niche interest compared to digital viewing?

If you do brochures, pamphlets, books, etc, it is! No "niche" to it.
Printers want Photoshop.

For digital printing (I want to make a book for someone for xmas),
I've started playing around with Scribus. It's pretty much exactly
what I expect in a page layout program, having used Framemaker (in
the 1990s when it was available on Solaris instead of being an Adobe
product for popular OSes as it is now). And it's free and open
source.

Photoshop / Gimp is probably okay for the "single page" type output, but
I don't think anyone does pamphlets or books in it.

Elijah
------
also used Ready Set Go on System 6 / System 7 Macs

Eli the Bearded

2018-10-15 19:33:01 UTC

Post by Clark Smith

I'm not expert in this field, I haven't touched Photoshop since 2.5
(pretty sure that was pre-layers support). I find Gimp perfectly
servicable, but slightly awkward as if it hasn't had a bunch of
professional UI experts polishing the interface (wonder why :^).

But the folks over at pixls.us seem to be much more knowledgeable. It's a
site dedicated to FOSS photography. I think they could explain what the
free alternative to Lightroom is and point to other programs useful in a
workflow.

I've found some good stuff there about software for use on Android
phones.

Elijah
------
pretty sure PS 2.5 came included with a flatbed scanner he purchased

Peter Chant

2018-10-15 20:35:35 UTC

All she can do is try it. It only costs time and unless MS has done
something strange Gimp should work on Win 10.

I believe that Photoshop and Lightroom are the pro de-facto standards
with ecosystems built round them. So if she finds that Gimp or other
alternatives do not give her the work-flow she needs she is stuck where
she is.

Pete

notbob

2018-10-15 23:18:19 UTC

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products.

No doubt due to Adobe's plan to start "renting" PS and it's other
products, much like AutoDesk. IOW, you never own it, Adobe does.

I've heard M$ wants to do the same with Windows. Jes lease it. I think
M$ has discovered they can make more $$ mining yer data. Windows 10 is
perfect for that. W10 seems to know before I do!

My buddy --also a "graphic designer/photographer-- wanted to know about
GIMP. Last I heard. he's still using PS. 8|

nb

root

2018-10-16 14:10:15 UTC

Post by notbob

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom for
Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the Adobe
products.

No doubt due to Adobe's plan to start "renting" PS and it's other
products, much like AutoDesk. IOW, you never own it, Adobe does.

Exactly the reason.

Post by notbob
My buddy --also a "graphic designer/photographer-- wanted to know about
GIMP. Last I heard. he's still using PS. 8|

Maybe he could use some help getting started with Gimp?

Rich

2018-10-16 15:35:31 UTC

Post by notbob

Post by root
I have a photographer friend who has used Photoshop and Lightroom
for Windows. She is increasingly unhappy with both Win 10 and the
Adobe products.

No doubt due to Adobe's plan to start "renting" PS and it's other
products, much like AutoDesk. IOW, you never own it, Adobe does.

Exactly the reason.

Post by notbob
My buddy --also a "graphic designer/photographer-- wanted to know
about GIMP. Last I heard. he's still using PS. 8|

Maybe he could use some help getting started with Gimp?

Each case is unique. There is only one person on the planet who can
actually answer the question you've posed to us. And that one person
is your friend who is the photographer.

You can set up a Linux system, install GIMP, and make sure it can
access her "archive" of past work.

But she has to use GIMP (honestly, not just for five minutes then give
up because "it's not PS") to see if it would meet her needs or not.

root

2018-10-16 18:11:51 UTC

Post by Rich
You can set up a Linux system, install GIMP, and make sure it can
access her "archive" of past work.

I asked her to google for something like "gimp acess photoshop files"
and read about whether what she finds corresponds to the file formats
she has. No results so far.

Post by Rich
But she has to use GIMP (honestly, not just for five minutes then give
up because "it's not PS") to see if it would meet her needs or not.

I think she will have to be motivated by the pain/cost of sticking
with Windows and Adobe vs. the nuisance of switching. That's the
way it sits now. I've already set up a linux system for her.

Peter Chant

2018-11-05 21:35:35 UTC

Post by root
I think she will have to be motivated by the pain/cost of sticking
with Windows and Adobe vs. the nuisance of switching. That's the
way it sits now. I've already set up a linux system for her.

What about gimp on windows?

It is a lot of anyone to expect, including of themselves, to switch
platform and application simultaneously.

If she likes gimp then she can think about a platform switch.

Eli the Bearded

2018-10-16 21:36:10 UTC