Call me a cynic, but....

[SteveH]

I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

[Higgins@work]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

We had this discussion in the office today. The cynic in me suggested
that as a longer term measure, the only items to get through security
are purses and medicines and the only stuff allowed on the aircraft is
that purchased in the secure side of the terminal. I bet the retailers
are lobbying hard already.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

You'll find that BAA are a company who own a few airports. They do
not decide aviation law. Hundreds of flights being cancelled will
reduce the quantity of people travelling to their airports which means
less money for them. Cancelled are tickets get the tax refunded so
their fee (as part of the tax) is never handed to BAA.

You're talking bollocks, luvvie.

It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

You'll find that BAA are a company who own a few airports. They do
not decide aviation law. Hundreds of flights being cancelled will
reduce the quantity of people travelling to their airports which means
less money for them. Cancelled are tickets get the tax refunded so
their fee (as part of the tax) is never handed to BAA.
You're talking bollocks, luvvie.

*sigh*

It won't just be BAA, then. Airport owners / authorities / airlines and
everyone else involved in the 'security' of passengers who also has a
financial interest in the revenue raised from airside shops will see
what's happened to takings over the next few days and find every reason
in this world not to lift the ban on hand luggage.

Post by BGN
It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

As a short term measure, due to the delays etc. at the airports.

Once that settles and they analyse the amount of extra profit they can
make from flogging overpriced crap to people on flights I'm sure they'll
also lobby to keep the measures in force.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

You'll find that BAA are a company who own a few airports. They do
not decide aviation law. Hundreds of flights being cancelled will
reduce the quantity of people travelling to their airports which means
less money for them. Cancelled are tickets get the tax refunded so
their fee (as part of the tax) is never handed to BAA.
You're talking bollocks, luvvie.

*sigh*
It won't just be BAA, then. Airport owners / authorities / airlines and
everyone else involved in the 'security' of passengers who also has a
financial interest in the revenue raised from airside shops will see
what's happened to takings over the next few days and find every reason
in this world not to lift the ban on hand luggage.

I bet it looks something like this:

Money made from people re-buying books at airports today that wouldn't
normally re-buy a book: £1,000
Money lost from people who would have travelled but didn't so lost
profits on duty free fags/alcohol: £200,000
Money lost from people who have cancelled their flights and got a
refund: £500,000
Money lost from people who will not travel again for two years:
£3,000,000
Money lost by my company today because of cancellations: £200,000
Money lost by the government in airport tax/VAT: *LOTS*
Money lost by the government and airport authorities in extra staffing
costs + security + police: *MUCHO CASHIBO*

But at least they've made an extra grand on books, eh?

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

As a short term measure, due to the delays etc. at the airports.
Once that settles and they analyse the amount of extra profit they can
make from flogging overpriced crap to people on flights I'm sure they'll
also lobby to keep the measures in force.

No.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
It won't just be BAA, then. Airport owners / authorities / airlines and
everyone else involved in the 'security' of passengers who also has a
financial interest in the revenue raised from airside shops will see
what's happened to takings over the next few days and find every reason
in this world not to lift the ban on hand luggage.

Money made from people re-buying books at airports today that wouldn't
normally re-buy a book: £1,000
Money lost from people who would have travelled but didn't so lost
profits on duty free fags/alcohol: £200,000
Money lost from people who have cancelled their flights and got a
refund: £500,000
£3,000,000
Money lost by my company today because of cancellations: £200,000
Money lost by the government in airport tax/VAT: *LOTS*
Money lost by the government and airport authorities in extra staffing
costs + security + police: *MUCHO CASHIBO*
But at least they've made an extra grand on books, eh?

Stop thinking short term.

Think about the results of a permanent ban on hand luggage.

How much extra cash will be made?

As it appears you've never worked in retail, you have absolutely no idea
how much extra cash the airside retailers stand to make out of this.

Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

As a short term measure, due to the delays etc. at the airports.
Once that settles and they analyse the amount of extra profit they can
make from flogging overpriced crap to people on flights I'm sure they'll
also lobby to keep the measures in force.

No.

See above.

Of course, you work in the travel industry so are only seeing this from
the current, internal perspective.

Look at the bigger picture over a longer term and you'll see how it
could well work out to be a nice little earner for the airports.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Money lost by the government in airport tax/VAT: *LOTS*
Money lost by the government and airport authorities in extra staffing
costs + security + police: *MUCHO CASHIBO*
But at least they've made an extra grand on books, eh?

Stop thinking short term.
Think about the results of a permanent ban on hand luggage.

Won't happen. HTH.

Post by SteveH
How much extra cash will be made?

Not much. Making extra cash from a ban on hand baggage will be short
term. I imagine a few months rather than a few years as it's not
workable.

Post by SteveH
As it appears you've never worked in retail, you have absolutely no idea
how much extra cash the airside retailers stand to make out of this.

Steve, I have worked in retail at management level for quite some time
in places far more exciting than Iceland so do know what I'm talking
about, thankyouverymuch. Oh, and I bet you've never worked in the
travel industry and don't understand the *huge* losses something like
this makes. Most US airlines are in Chapter 11 still from 9/11 and
that was years ago.

Post by SteveH
Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Short term, luvvie. An extra bit of profit + tax on a few fancy books
doesn't offset the huge amount of cash the government loses on the VAT
from flight tickets.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

As a short term measure, due to the delays etc. at the airports.
Once that settles and they analyse the amount of extra profit they can
make from flogging overpriced crap to people on flights I'm sure they'll
also lobby to keep the measures in force.

No.

See above.
Of course, you work in the travel industry so are only seeing this from
the current, internal perspective.
Look at the bigger picture over a longer term and you'll see how it
could well work out to be a nice little earner for the airports.

I've thought about this from the exciting world of retail and the
exciting world of travel and am quite happy to work on the basis that
you've no idea what the fuck you're talking about. YMMV.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Look at the bigger picture over a longer term and you'll see how it
could well work out to be a nice little earner for the airports.

I've thought about this from the exciting world of retail and the
exciting world of travel and am quite happy to work on the basis that
you've no idea what the fuck you're talking about. YMMV.

It does, greatly.

The losses today were unavoidable.

Long term profiteering from the situation cannot yet be ruled out.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Money lost by the government in airport tax/VAT: *LOTS*
Money lost by the government and airport authorities in extra staffing
costs + security + police: *MUCHO CASHIBO*
But at least they've made an extra grand on books, eh?

Stop thinking short term.
Think about the results of a permanent ban on hand luggage.

Won't happen. HTH.

Post by SteveH
How much extra cash will be made?

Not much. Making extra cash from a ban on hand baggage will be short
term. I imagine a few months rather than a few years as it's not
workable.

Fuck it, I wasn't going to reply to every point, but I will.

It doesn't take *any* extra security staffing to ban all hand luggage
long term. There's no extra scanning to do - all the airports and
airlines have to do is to issue a policy statement saying that you can
only take 'essentials' on as hand luggage until further notice. All
other security measures can be returned to normal levels.

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
As it appears you've never worked in retail, you have absolutely no idea
how much extra cash the airside retailers stand to make out of this.

Steve, I have worked in retail at management level for quite some time
in places far more exciting than Iceland so do know what I'm talking
about, thankyouverymuch.

With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well paid
job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Post by BGN
Oh, and I bet you've never worked in the
travel industry and don't understand the *huge* losses something like
this makes. Most US airlines are in Chapter 11 still from 9/11 and
that was years ago.

Yes, and?

How does that relate to a decision by UK airports and airlines deciding
to effectively ban anything that hasn't been purchesed from a secure
airside source?

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Short term, luvvie. An extra bit of profit + tax on a few fancy books
doesn't offset the huge amount of cash the government loses on the VAT
from flight tickets.

Which is a short term loss.

See above about taking security back to usual levels but still
maintaining a ban on anything other than travel documents and wallets in
hand luggage.

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
It's like saying "Ooh, I bet BA will make LOADS of money selling
newspapers on their flights now!!!" when they're offering refunds to
passengers who wish to cancel their flights which costs them a little
more than 50p.

As a short term measure, due to the delays etc. at the airports.
Once that settles and they analyse the amount of extra profit they can
make from flogging overpriced crap to people on flights I'm sure they'll
also lobby to keep the measures in force.

No.

See above.
Of course, you work in the travel industry so are only seeing this from
the current, internal perspective.
Look at the bigger picture over a longer term and you'll see how it
could well work out to be a nice little earner for the airports.

I've thought about this from the exciting world of retail and the
exciting world of travel and am quite happy to work on the basis that
you've no idea what the fuck you're talking about. YMMV.

See my other post.

It's very easy to see this could easily become a profit boosting
opportunity.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
How much extra cash will be made?

Not much. Making extra cash from a ban on hand baggage will be short
term. I imagine a few months rather than a few years as it's not
workable.

Fuck it, I wasn't going to reply to every point, but I will.

I was expecting a huge rattle throw but good on you for replying.

Post by SteveH
It doesn't take *any* extra security staffing to ban all hand luggage
long term. There's no extra scanning to do - all the airports and
airlines have to do is to issue a policy statement saying that you can
only take 'essentials' on as hand luggage until further notice. All
other security measures can be returned to normal levels.

Wrong. If hand baggage was banned forever then more security
equipment would have to be purchased to scan every single suitcase as
all of the bomb-related items would just be placed in the hold. More
staff will be needed to throw every case through the security
equipment, monitor the equipment, take it off the other end and then
sort it. And if machines are there to do it instead of people then
some bugger needs to be there to fix it. How often are baggage
carousels out of service? It would be the same kind of thing.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
As it appears you've never worked in retail, you have absolutely no idea
how much extra cash the airside retailers stand to make out of this.

Steve, I have worked in retail at management level for quite some time
in places far more exciting than Iceland so do know what I'm talking
about, thankyouverymuch.

With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well paid
job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

So your boast was based on me never having worked in retail and now
you know I've worked not just in travel, but retail at your level of
management and I therefore have more scope to make such statements you
choose to ignore my viewpoint preferring to redirect the conversation
into a personal attack?

I've never 'moaned' about the lack of disposable income and I've
certainly *never* stated that I hate my job. You're making bad
assumptions. If you're referring to Verdi's thread up there somewhere
then you will note that he was on about looking forward to going to
work. Looking forward to going to work, going to work, not wishing to
go to work and hating your job are different things and just because
one doesn't approach work full of the joys of spring every morning
doesn't mean one hates the job. If I hated the job then I wouldn't do
it.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Oh, and I bet you've never worked in the
travel industry and don't understand the *huge* losses something like
this makes. Most US airlines are in Chapter 11 still from 9/11 and
that was years ago.

Yes, and?
How does that relate to a decision by UK airports and airlines deciding
to effectively ban anything that hasn't been purchesed from a secure
airside source?

The decision to ban hand baggage does not belong to UK airports or
airlines. It is with the CAA and important people like the
government. I am certain that should all UK airlines would lose
money.

Let me explain why. A potential client has a 24 hour flight ahead of
them from the UK to Australia. If they fly with British Airways out
of London they will not be permitted to bring any form of reading
material or entertainment with them in the cabin through the entire
flight. If they fly with Royal Dutch Airlines from London to
Amsterdam they will not be permitted to bring any form of reading
material or entertainment with them in the cabin for two hours until
they reach Amsterdam. KLM then let them quickly reclaim their baggage
and operate a FastConnectionCheckIn(tm) service. They've been in
Amsterdam airport for half an hour, had a walk around, got their
entertainment back, had something to eat and then hop on to the flight
for another 22 hours until they reach Australia.

If you had two youngsters with you for the above flight to Oz would
you prefer the BA flight without entertainment or would you prefer the
Royal Dutch flight without entertainment for 2 hours, a bite to eat,
and then 22 hours with entertainment for the rest of the journey?

I bet you'd select Royal Dutch which means BA, who have a far bigger
stake in UK airports than Royal Dutch, will be losing your custom.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Short term, luvvie. An extra bit of profit + tax on a few fancy books
doesn't offset the huge amount of cash the government loses on the VAT
from flight tickets.

Which is a short term loss.
See above about taking security back to usual levels but still
maintaining a ban on anything other than travel documents and wallets in
hand luggage.

Having an aircraft full of jumpy people likely to get bored and angry
isn't an effective way to run a flight. Passengers are better when
they have their own possessions to play with and it keeps them from
getting pissed out of their skins and falling down the toilet or
murdering the nearest person.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
I've thought about this from the exciting world of retail and the
exciting world of travel and am quite happy to work on the basis that
you've no idea what the fuck you're talking about. YMMV.

See my other post.
It's very easy to see this could easily become a profit boosting
opportunity.

The long term losses from things like this would far outweigh the long
term gains from people spending an extra fiver at the airport per
person and I bet airlines would provide various 'essential
entertainment' options for free if that meant they could get your cash
over another carrier.

[Cab]

Post by BGN

It doesn't take any extra security staffing to ban all hand luggage
long term. There's no extra scanning to do - all the airports and
airlines have to do is to issue a policy statement saying that you
can only take 'essentials' on as hand luggage until further notice.
All other security measures can be returned to normal levels.

Wrong. If hand baggage was banned forever then more security
equipment would have to be purchased to scan every single suitcase as
all of the bomb-related items would just be placed in the hold. More
staff will be needed to throw every case through the security
equipment, monitor the equipment, take it off the other end and then
sort it. And if machines are there to do it instead of people then
some bugger needs to be there to fix it. How often are baggage
carousels out of service? It would be the same kind of thing.

*ding*

All stuff that's booked in needs to be labelled. This stuff needs to be
scanned at every stage from when it's checked in to when it goes onto
the 'plane. So in a instant, their workload has significantly
increased. This doesn't take into account the actually handling,
scanning, etc, etc.

As a matter of interest, I'm off to see the way it all works behind the
scenes in Paris - CDG on Wednesday, as the AF baggage crews use my
company's equipment.

[BGN]

On 11 Aug 2006 07:12:15 GMT, "Cab"

Post by Cab
As a matter of interest, I'm off to see the way it all works behind the
scenes in Paris - CDG on Wednesday, as the AF baggage crews use my
company's equipment.

While you're there if you see an AF employee can you ask why they're
being so fucking shit with their Business class seat rates from SCL
via CDG to LHR?

Ta.

[Cab]

Post by BGN
On 11 Aug 2006 07:12:15 GMT, "Cab"

Post by Cab
As a matter of interest, I'm off to see the way it all works behind
the scenes in Paris - CDG on Wednesday, as the AF baggage crews use
my company's equipment.

While you're there if you see an AF employee can you ask why they're
being so fucking shit with their Business class seat rates from SCL
via CDG to LHR?
Ta.

SCL?

[BGN]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 19:20:49 +0200, "Cab"

Post by BGN

Post by Cab
As a matter of interest, I'm off to see the way it all works behind
the scenes in Paris - CDG on Wednesday, as the AF baggage crews use
my company's equipment.

While you're there if you see an AF employee can you ask why they're
being so fucking shit with their Business class seat rates from SCL
via CDG to LHR?
Ta.

SCL?

Santiago. Little fuckers. I hate Air France. The only reason I had
to move the flights from Lufthansa was because LH pulled the route.

I had twenty business class seats on allocation which I was flogging
for a grand a piece, I sold out of those and asked for six more which
I sold for a grand each. I asked for six more and they said "Yes,
have them: But we've shoved the price up by £150!" It's as if I'm
being punished for selling their highest class seats.

Don't worry about it: I'll sort the fuckers out next year.

[Cab]

Post by BGN

SCL?

Santiago. Little fuckers. I hate Air France. The only reason I had
to move the flights from Lufthansa was because LH pulled the route.
I had twenty business class seats on allocation which I was flogging
for a grand a piece, I sold out of those and asked for six more which
I sold for a grand each. I asked for six more and they said "Yes,
have them: But we've shoved the price up by £150!" It's as if I'm
being punished for selling their highest class seats.
Don't worry about it: I'll sort the fuckers out next year.

Ah, I see. I'll have words on Wednesday for you. ;-)

[dwb]

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

[BGN]

Post by dwb

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

I managed to avoid bringing up his longing to run a Heine Gerkin
franchise and just counted it as a minor rattle throw. I do have to
admit that throwing something personal like that into a conversation
was a bad call on my part and I probably shouldn't have done it as it
wasn't called for. But at least I'm not Welsh.

[SteveH]

Post by dwb

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

I may have had jobs I've hated, but I've never moaned about lack of cash
on here.

HTH.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by dwb

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

I may have had jobs I've hated, but I've never moaned about lack of cash
on here.

I've never moaned about it either. You're mistaking me saying
something to wessie as moaning. Moaning is very different to a
statement or comment.

I don't mind the fact that you couldn't hold up your end of a weak
argument. It's not the first time you've been wrong and I doubt it's
going to be the last time, but try not to make it personal as I'm a
bigger bitch than you'll ever be.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by dwb

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

I may have had jobs I've hated, but I've never moaned about lack of cash
on here.

I've never moaned about it either. You're mistaking me saying
something to wessie as moaning. Moaning is very different to a
statement or comment.

I've lost count of the times you've said you can't do something because
of a lack of cash on here.

I can't be arsed to google, but you must have done it several times for
it to stick in my mind.

Post by BGN
I don't mind the fact that you couldn't hold up your end of a weak
argument. It's not the first time you've been wrong and I doubt it's
going to be the last time, but try not to make it personal as I'm a
bigger bitch than you'll ever be.

You're the one who started on personal snipes, not me.

Either you're deliberately being argumentative these days or you really
are as miserable as you come across on here.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by dwb

Post by SteveH
With so much exciting experience, why aren't you working in a well
paid job that you like, rather than moaning on here about a lack of
disposable income and a job you hate?

Now, you've managed to find a job you like now... but wouldn't this
have applied to you not too long ago?

I may have had jobs I've hated, but I've never moaned about lack of cash
on here.

I've never moaned about it either. You're mistaking me saying
something to wessie as moaning. Moaning is very different to a
statement or comment.

I've lost count of the times you've said you can't do something because
of a lack of cash on here.
I can't be arsed to google, but you must have done it several times for
it to stick in my mind.

Post by BGN
I don't mind the fact that you couldn't hold up your end of a weak
argument. It's not the first time you've been wrong and I doubt it's
going to be the last time, but try not to make it personal as I'm a
bigger bitch than you'll ever be.

You're the one who started on personal snipes, not me.
Either you're deliberately being argumentative these days or you really
are as miserable as you come across on here.

So you're not going to address any of the issues raised in my last
post destroying your arguments, then? Good show old boy.

[Cab]

It doesn't take any extra security staffing to ban all hand luggage
long term. There's no extra scanning to do - all the airports and
airlines have to do is to issue a policy statement saying that you can
only take 'essentials' on as hand luggage until further notice. All
other security measures can be returned to normal levels.

Yes it does. Don't look at it from the security checks whilst walking
through to departures. You need to look at the extra workload that goes
on behind the scenes for all booked in baggage.

[Ace]

<Something>

Post by BGN
I've thought about this from the exciting world of retail and the
exciting world of travel and am quite happy to work on the basis that
you've no idea what the fuck you're talking about. YMMV.

So, no surprises there then.

[antonye]

Post by SteveH
Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Buy stuff at the airport? How very pikey!
Surely you just use the club lounge where it's all free?

[SteveH]

Post by antonye

Post by SteveH
Profit margin on a bottle of water - say 50p. Now multiply this by just
about every single customer that takes a flight from a typical UK
airport and you start to see just how much money the retailers and / or
airport authorities stand to make out of this.

Buy stuff at the airport? How very pikey!
Surely you just use the club lounge where it's all free?

Well, yes, I do.... but a lot don't.

[Champ]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Hmm. It was my understanding that the only things you can *take onto
the plane* are those listed. Which means the airport shops won't be
selling a bloody thing.

[SteveH]

Post by Champ

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Hmm. It was my understanding that the only things you can *take onto
the plane* are those listed. Which means the airport shops won't be
selling a bloody thing.

Dunno. Maybe this is the case short term.

In the longer term, I can see you only being able to take stuff on board
that's been bought from 'secure' airside shops.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by Champ

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Hmm. It was my understanding that the only things you can *take onto
the plane* are those listed. Which means the airport shops won't be
selling a bloody thing.

Thank you - that's how I had read it too.

I'm still completely confused as to why books, magazines and newspapers
seem to be banned - even from clear plastic bags. Anyone got a clue?

It's all barking mad anyway. Still if it remains in place in a few weeks
when it is my hols then I doubt I'm going abroad - no way am I standing
in a queue for 10 hours to get on a plane. Hopefully the railways will
exploit this chaos for all they can get [1] and people will see that
train travel is damn sight more civilised for a proportion of journeys
within the UK and Europe.

[1] clever of Mr Branson to say that Virgin Trains will accept any plane
ticket for an equivalent journey by rail for today.

[Champ]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:26:20 +0100, Paul Corfield

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by Champ

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Hmm. It was my understanding that the only things you can *take onto
the plane* are those listed. Which means the airport shops won't be
selling a bloody thing.

Thank you - that's how I had read it too.
I'm still completely confused as to why books, magazines and newspapers
seem to be banned - even from clear plastic bags. Anyone got a clue?

I think it's because they could possibly be used to disguise
containers of liquid. I've no idea how much liquid you need for a
viable device, but reports on the C4 news just now [1] suggest that
passengers in the US had to ditch lipstick and the like.

Post by Paul Corfield
It's all barking mad anyway.

It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand. After
all, I use the roads every day - the equivalent death rate would be a
Jumbo exploding every six weeks.

[1] I do still like C4 news. They quite rightly used the phrase
"alleged conspiracy" throughout. Bet the Beeb didn't.

[Matt Chapter]

Post by Champ
It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand. After

Can't swing one a week? I do like the turn of 'cost of freedom', though.

[Christofire]

Post by Matt Chapter

Post by Champ
It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand.
After

Can't swing one a week? I do like the turn of 'cost of freedom', though.

<Team America>
#Buck o' Five
</TA>

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by Champ
I use the roads every day - the equivalent death rate would be a
Jumbo exploding every six weeks.

<Does the maths>

It would, too. Makes you think.

[t***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Champ
It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand. After
all, I use the roads every day - the equivalent death rate would be a
Jumbo exploding every six weeks.

So true. Twould be a small price to pay for a continuation of normal
life. ...and more importantly terrorism only works if we allow
ourselves to be openly and blatently terrorized to the point where we
close our airports and full our news with all this shit.

These wankers have killed a mere 50 people in the UK. I bet more die
from bee stings yet our press and politicians reward these cunts for
their pitiful attempts to kill us with a level of panic out of all
proportion to the risks we face.

Mind ewe, I'm pretty sure the government are well aware there is damn
all terrorism risk and just want to ramp up some panic for their own
benifit so discussing this issue in terrorism terms is perhaps missing
the point.

[BGN]

Post by t***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Champ
It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand. After
all, I use the roads every day - the equivalent death rate would be a
Jumbo exploding every six weeks.

So true. Twould be a small price to pay for a continuation of normal
life. ...and more importantly terrorism only works if we allow
ourselves to be openly and blatently terrorized to the point where we
close our airports and full our news with all this shit.

Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by BGN
Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

That'll be the city you're discussing I assume.

"The market is never wrong..." Pah!

[BGN]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by BGN
Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

That'll be the city you're discussing I assume.
"The market is never wrong..." Pah!

No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by BGN
Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

That'll be the city you're discussing I assume.
"The market is never wrong..." Pah!

No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

Just watching News 24.

Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.

What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by BGN
Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

That'll be the city you're discussing I assume.
"The market is never wrong..." Pah!

No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

Just watching News 24.
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they were
going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

Just watching News 24.
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they were
going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

We'll see.

Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

It isn't BAA who set the security policy. It's the Government.

And what extra cash do you think will be generated? Sure book sales
will increase but do you really think a few extra bottles of water will
make that much difference?

[BGN]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

It isn't BAA who set the security policy. It's the Government.
And what extra cash do you think will be generated? Sure book sales
will increase but do you really think a few extra bottles of water will
make that much difference?

God yes. Steve is under the impression that the same amount of people
will fly even if they can't take hand baggage with them.

Long haul airline seat = £2,000 but even though the country has lost
that £2,000 as the passenger didn't travel it will make a whole POUND
from selling TWO bottles of mineral water! Genius! That man will go
far.

[MikeH]

Post by BGN

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

It isn't BAA who set the security policy. It's the Government.
And what extra cash do you think will be generated? Sure book sales
will increase but do you really think a few extra bottles of water will
make that much difference?

God yes. Steve is under the impression that the same amount of people
will fly even if they can't take hand baggage with them.
Long haul airline seat = £2,000 but even though the country has lost
that £2,000 as the passenger didn't travel it will make a whole POUND
from selling TWO bottles of mineral water! Genius! That man will go
far.

Ah, but how much will people pay for a bottle if it's the *only* place
they can get it? Especially once they turn the heating up.

[SteveH]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

It isn't BAA who set the security policy. It's the Government.
And what extra cash do you think will be generated? Sure book sales
will increase but do you really think a few extra bottles of water will
make that much difference?

Working on average profit margins and assuming most passengers will buy
a bottle, BAA sites would stand to make an extra £50m or so just from
water sales alone.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

It isn't BAA who set the security policy. It's the Government.
And what extra cash do you think will be generated? Sure book sales
will increase but do you really think a few extra bottles of water will
make that much difference?

Working on average profit margins and assuming most passengers will buy
a bottle, BAA sites would stand to make an extra £50m or so just from
water sales alone.

And how much will they lose through not receiving £36 airport tax a
seat by a passenger not travelling?

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Working on average profit margins and assuming most passengers will buy
a bottle, BAA sites would stand to make an extra £50m or so just from
water sales alone.

And how much will they lose through not receiving £36 airport tax a
seat by a passenger not travelling?

That's making assumptions that people will choose not to fly for the
reasons of hand luggage restrictions. We don't know what effect this
will have, yet.

I'm merely playing devil's advocate, doing some quick back of fag packet
calculations, and have come to the conclusion that airside retail are
making a killing from the current restrictions. It doesn't take much of
an imagination to see that there may well be restrictions left in place
that make the current short-term profiteering a long term situation.

There's always someone who'll see an opportunity to take extra money
from any situation.

[Switters]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
And how much will they lose through not receiving £36 airport tax a
seat by a passenger not travelling?

That's making assumptions that people will choose not to fly for the
reasons of hand luggage restrictions. We don't know what effect this
will have, yet.

<waves> I won't fly long haul until they stop this nonsense. I'm still
considering short flights.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by Switters

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
And how much will they lose through not receiving £36 airport tax a
seat by a passenger not travelling?

That's making assumptions that people will choose not to fly for the
reasons of hand luggage restrictions. We don't know what effect this
will have, yet.

<waves> I won't fly long haul until they stop this nonsense. I'm still
considering short flights.

<AOL> I hate airports at the best of times even if flying business
where I get access to the lounge. Putting me through hours of
unmitigated nonsense will mean I don't fly. The ludicrous measures put
in place by the Americans also means I won't got to the States either
until they stop treating people from the UK - their bosom buddies in the
war on terror - like bloody criminals.

I can only just about tolerate the stupidity that is security,
immigration and customs on Eurostar. It's odd how trains can whizz
through tunnels, over bridges and at the same time cross borders in
Europe without being subjected to the frontier lunacy we have in this
country.

[Cab]

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by Switters
<waves> I won't fly long haul until they stop this nonsense. I'm

still

Post by Switters
considering short flights.

<AOL> I hate airports at the best of times even if flying business
where I get access to the lounge. Putting me through hours of
unmitigated nonsense will mean I don't fly. The ludicrous measures
put in place by the Americans also means I won't got to the States
either until they stop treating people from the UK - their bosom
buddies in the war on terror - like bloody criminals.

Heh, to be fair, they treat all non-Merkins like criminals, not just
the British.

I still remember the story of when the Merkins started to put tougher
security measures into place (such as retina scans, etc). They got
really upset when the Brazilians start to fingerprint all Merkins
entering Brazil.

Ah here it was:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/12/30/brazil.usa.immigration.reut
/
http://www.talkleft.com/new_archives/004958.html

[Paul Corfield]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:09:17 +0200, "Cab"

Post by Cab

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by Switters
<waves> I won't fly long haul until they stop this nonsense. I'm

still

Post by Switters
considering short flights.

<AOL> I hate airports at the best of times even if flying business
where I get access to the lounge. Putting me through hours of
unmitigated nonsense will mean I don't fly. The ludicrous measures
put in place by the Americans also means I won't got to the States
either until they stop treating people from the UK - their bosom
buddies in the war on terror - like bloody criminals.

Heh, to be fair, they treat all non-Merkins like criminals, not just
the British.

Well you can understand it with the french and the Germans. They are not
playing war games with terror and sending their citizens of to Iraq and
Afghanistan to be slaughtered.

Post by Cab
I still remember the story of when the Merkins started to put tougher
security measures into place (such as retina scans, etc). They got
really upset when the Brazilians start to fingerprint all Merkins
entering Brazil.

Which goes to show how stupid and arrogant they are. They have still to
scale things back even though the number of tourist arrivals has fallen
since the restrictions came in.

[Cab]

Post by Switters

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
And how much will they lose through not receiving £36 airport tax a
seat by a passenger not travelling?

That's making assumptions that people will choose not to fly for the
reasons of hand luggage restrictions. We don't know what effect this
will have, yet.

<waves> I won't fly long haul until they stop this nonsense. I'm
still considering short flights.

I'm a bit stuffed as most of my flights are short haul. Luckily most
are not into the UK. So I'm not stuffed after all.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

Just watching News 24.
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they were
going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

We'll see.

Can we also see your reply to the points raised in Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com> please? You've ignored
it totally changing conversation to an "I'm richer than your" pissing
contest.

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation Business
Consultant (also available for natural disasters) who appears to know
everything about business.

Just watching News 24.
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they were
going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

We'll see.

it totally changing conversation to an "I'm richer than your" pissing
contest.

Hold on, Nick. *You* started a pissing contest. I've chosen to largely
avoid going further down that road as it's a bit pointless.

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

[Cab]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
No, it's the wish and viewpoint of our Expert Aviation

Business >> >> Consultant (also available for natural disasters)
who appears to know >> >> everything about business.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Just watching News 24.
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to

generate >> >extra profits?

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they

were >> going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

Post by SteveH
We'll see.

it totally changing conversation to an "I'm richer than your"
pissing contest.

Hold on, Nick. You started a pissing contest. I've chosen to largely
avoid going further down that road as it's a bit pointless.

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage
ban in place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly
with hold luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside
retail.

Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

I don't know what the percentages are for business travel compared to
leisure travel, but in Europe I'd reckon it'd be pretty high. At the
moment, 99% of my trips are business and I see mostly business
travellers on my flights. Most of them are either carrying a PC OR a
light travel case that will fit into the overhead bins.

I reckon that the hold luggage is minimal in most cases.

Oh and the fact that Air France have installed a load more electronic
ticket points (mainly used by hand luggage travellers only), points to
my assumption being correct.

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
That wasn't the argument, young Steve. Your point was that they were
going to ban it forever and ever and ever.

We'll see.

it totally changing conversation to an "I'm richer than your" pissing
contest.

Hold on, Nick. *You* started a pissing contest. I've chosen to largely
avoid going further down that road as it's a bit pointless.

So you're not going to address it the valid points and examples? I'm
pleased that you're admitted defeat.

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban in
place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

Yeah - My company deals with more than TEN passengers a year and 100%
of those have a suitcase with them in addition to their hand baggage.
One or two of those TEN people will even ask for more baggage lables
so they can pre-address an extra suitcase.

[SteveH]

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

Yeah - My company deals with more than TEN passengers a year and 100%
of those have a suitcase with them in addition to their hand baggage.
One or two of those TEN people will even ask for more baggage lables
so they can pre-address an extra suitcase.

So I was right to assume that most people fly with hold luggage, then?

[BGN]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

Yeah - My company deals with more than TEN passengers a year and 100%
of those have a suitcase with them in addition to their hand baggage.
One or two of those TEN people will even ask for more baggage lables
so they can pre-address an extra suitcase.

So I was right to assume that most people fly with hold luggage, then?

This is the problem: People going on holiday don't make up more than
half of the people who travel on flights.

Out of the last ten flights I've taken I only took a suitcase on one
of them as most of them were quick visits to places to sort things out
or troubleshoot abroad.

People that fly from Heathrow to Glasgow at 8am and back to Heathrow
at 6pm aren't likely to be checking anything in.

[Cab]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Yeah - My company deals with more than TEN passengers a year and
100% of those have a suitcase with them in addition to their hand
baggage. One or two of those TEN people will even ask for more
baggage lables so they can pre-address an extra suitcase.

So I was right to assume that most people fly with hold luggage, then?

No.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by SteveH

Post by BGN
Can you please give your source for 'most people fly with hold
luggage' thanks.

Can you give me figures that support the opinion that most don't?

My (limited) experience of short haul in Europe is that a huge
proportion of people are away for a day or two and only have hand
luggage to go in the overhead lockers. Flying back from Berlin last year
with BA there was virtually no hold luggage - I was one of very few who
waited by the carousel at Heathrow. Everyone else (90% of the passengers
must have been travelling on business) simply fucked off with their mini
cases on wheels to try to fell as many people in the terminal as
possible.

Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more luggage
being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small proportion of
people - probably those going business or First - may opt to travel only
with cabin luggage as they get a better allowance.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Paul Corfield
Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more luggage
being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small proportion of
people - probably those going business or First - may opt to travel only
with cabin luggage as they get a better allowance.

If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold luggage;
taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each end of the
flight.

[Cab]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Paul Corfield
Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more
luggage being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small
proportion of people - probably those going business or First - may
opt to travel only with cabin luggage as they get a better
allowance.

If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

AONTL.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Paul Corfield
Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more luggage
being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small proportion of
people - probably those going business or First - may opt to travel only
with cabin luggage as they get a better allowance.

If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold luggage;
taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each end of the
flight.

Yup. Even for a week in Ecuador, I was just going to take hand luggage.
If I run short of clean shirts and knicks - that's what hotel laundry is
for.

Trip now rescheduled to 30 August and (fingers crossed) biz class from
Schipol with KLM.

I would like my laptop on the flight, plus a couple of books, and my
Travel Scrabble set. I frequently play against myself[1] on long
flights. So I might not ask for the luggage to be checked all the way
through from LHR, so I can retrieve them at Schipol, if the transfer
time allows it.

[1] Anyone who does the obvious edit on this is dead.

[Champ]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Paul Corfield
Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more luggage
being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small proportion of
people - probably those going business or First - may opt to travel only
with cabin luggage as they get a better allowance.

If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold luggage;
taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each end of the
flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

[Cab]

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

I'm not in a hurry, as a rule. I just CBA to wait for my luggage. I get
bored, see.

[Verdigris]

Post by Cab

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

I'm not in a hurry, as a rule. I just CBA to wait for my luggage. I get
bored, see.

I usually find that if I stroll rather than stride from the plane I don't
have much of a wait for my baggage.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Verdigris

Post by Cab

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

I'm not in a hurry, as a rule. I just CBA to wait for my luggage. I get
bored, see.

I usually find that if I stroll rather than stride from the plane I don't
have much of a wait for my baggage.

Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't *DO* slow[1] anything really.

This is why waiting for anything (with the exception of food which is
being prepared) is a real chore for me. I think I'm still about 8 or so
really.

[1] This includes riding bikes, am I pushing my luck cruising to work on
the M4 at 90-110 day in day out? I rarely see a police traffic car
unexpectedly. I think I'll get caught out by an unmarked car but I do
check *every* car for two occupants, non-dealer plates etc. etc. Then
again I've been speeding on the M4 on a daily basis for oh... 15 years
now. # I can't help it if I'm lucky...

<rant>
And whilst I'm on this subject... what is it with fucking bike riders
and filtering? I'm not *that* fast but I keep coming up behind new
bikes and will the riders pull over and let me past? No. I flash my
lights, nothing. Beep my horn and in some cases nothing. Ignorant
cunts filtering in static traffic at 10-15mph ought to have their bikes
confiscated if they refuse to get out of my way when there's a gap they
can pull into. Wankers.
</rant>

[Eiron]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't *DO* slow[1] anything really.

You obviously do *DO* slow. If you walked fast on the moving walkway
you would be much faster. Still, you're probably rushing into an early
grave. Can I have your bike after your heart attack?

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Eiron

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't *DO* slow[1] anything really.

You obviously do *DO* slow. If you walked fast on the moving walkway
you would be much faster. Still, you're probably rushing into an early
grave. Can I have your bike after your heart attack?

No, I'm saving time since I get a cardio workout and avoid spending
additional time in the gym. In any case, my car won't be brought to the
front of the airport by the time i get out so I'll have to hang around
for a couple of minutes there.

And re rushing to an early grave, I doubt it. My cardio system is
tip-top according to my recent medical there's a 3% chance of coronary
heart disease in the next ten years (for my age it should be a 7%
chance) exactly the same as it was four years ago.

Anyway, which bike are you angling for; K100 (parked), K100RT, K1100LT
or ZXR750H1?

[Cab]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Verdigris
I usually find that if I stroll rather than stride from the plane I
don't have much of a wait for my baggage.

Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't DO slow[1] anything really.

I'm pretty much the same. Ironically, I take my time in getting to
airports, time to chill, etc. At the other end, I can't wait to get out.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Cab

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Verdigris
I usually find that if I stroll rather than stride from the plane I
don't have much of a wait for my baggage.

Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't DO slow[1] anything really.

I'm pretty much the same. Ironically, I take my time in getting to
airports, time to chill, etc. At the other end, I can't wait to get out.

Well, since I generally take an early morning flight (Heathrow at 6.15
means getting up at 4.15) and I can't get out of the house in less than
40 minutes from getting up so I end up doing the hundred miles to
heathrow in about 1 hour 10 to 1 hour 20. This isn't a 'chilled'
journey in the car. It is on the bike though.

Put on Guns n' Roses and go for it basically.

[Cab]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
Well, since I generally take an early morning flight (Heathrow at 6.15
means getting up at 4.15) and I can't get out of the house in less
than 40 minutes from getting up so I end up doing the hundred miles to
heathrow in about 1 hour 10 to 1 hour 20. This isn't a 'chilled'
journey in the car. It is on the bike though.

That's your fault for being an hour behind the rest of Europe! :-)

For me, most of my flights are between 7am and 7:30am, so most days
it's a 5am wake up.

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
Put on Guns n' Roses and go for it basically.

Heh, for me it's BBC World.

[Champ]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
<rant>
And whilst I'm on this subject... what is it with fucking bike riders
and filtering? I'm not *that* fast but I keep coming up behind new
bikes and will the riders pull over and let me past? No. I flash my
lights, nothing. Beep my horn and in some cases nothing. Ignorant
cunts filtering in static traffic at 10-15mph ought to have their bikes
confiscated if they refuse to get out of my way when there's a gap they
can pull into. Wankers.
</rant>

My standard technique when filtering on motorways (like pretty much
all of the M6, last Friday) and I come up behind a bike in lane 2a is
to find a gap and switch into lane 1a - filter fast enough to pass the
other bike, and then switch back into 2a.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
<rant>
And whilst I'm on this subject... what is it with fucking bike riders
and filtering? I'm not *that* fast but I keep coming up behind new
bikes and will the riders pull over and let me past? No. I flash my
lights, nothing. Beep my horn and in some cases nothing. Ignorant
cunts filtering in static traffic at 10-15mph ought to have their bikes
confiscated if they refuse to get out of my way when there's a gap they
can pull into. Wankers.
</rant>

My standard technique when filtering on motorways (like pretty much
all of the M6, last Friday) and I come up behind a bike in lane 2a is
to find a gap and switch into lane 1a - filter fast enough to pass the
other bike, and then switch back into 2a.

Well, yes I use this one when traffic is moving. But it's when traffic
is static and it's slightly awkward to move to 1a through 2.

I just get miffed that people don't automatically get out of my way; if
there's a faster bike behind me I always pull in at the first chance to
let them past.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Verdigris

Post by Cab

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

I'm not in a hurry, as a rule. I just CBA to wait for my luggage. I get
bored, see.

I usually find that if I stroll rather than stride from the plane I don't
have much of a wait for my baggage.

Well, I don't walk slowly. I walk fucking swiftly and don't use the
walkway escalator things. I don't *DO* slow[1] anything really.
This is why waiting for anything (with the exception of food which is
being prepared) is a real chore for me. I think I'm still about 8 or so
really.

I think that of all the possible ukrm candidates you were number 1 on my
list to come out with these comments. Do you get very cross if the
plane is late when you're travelling on business?

[Cab]

Post by Paul Corfield
I think that of all the possible ukrm candidates you were number 1 on
my list to come out with these comments. Do you get very cross if the
plane is late when you're travelling on business?

Heh, I do. I have to concentrate to calm myself down. Even worse, is
when you're on the plane and the pilot comes on the tannoy announcing a
30 minute delay 'due to ATC'. Even thinking about it, makes my blood
boil.

Yes, yes, it's irrational, but I'm trying to learn to calm myself down.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by Cab
Even worse, is
when you're on the plane and the pilot comes on the tannoy announcing a
30 minute delay 'due to ATC'. Even thinking about it, makes my blood
boil.

No, the delay that *really* gets on my tits is when it's due to some
cloth-eared chav fuckwit who hasn't connected with the final boarding
call, and who has his luggage offloaded.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
This is why waiting for anything (with the exception of food which is
being prepared) is a real chore for me. I think I'm still about 8 or so
really.

I'm with you on the food, and note you make the subtle but essential
distinction between 'being prepared' and 'being served'.

Shite service in restaurants and hotels really, *really* annoys me.[1]

As for waiting - depends in how much of a hurry I am. If I've got a good
book and maybe a Scrabble set, I can wait for a lot of things.

[1] Some years ago, dining at a restaurant in some poncey country club
outside Coventry, with a load of colleagues after a food exhibition at
the NEC:

I've been scoffing different foods all day, and wasn't wildly hungry. My
eye fell on the 'Greek salad', which sounded just the ticket.

After a wait of 50 minutes (!) out came a plate, bearing a neat
hemisphere of shredded lettuce, four tiny cubes of feta cheese, a sliced
tomato, a few slices of cucumber, and a handful of stuffed cocktail
olives.

"What's this?" queried I.

'Your Greek salad, sir.'

"That isn't a Greek salad."

'Yes it is. It's what you ordered.'

"It's not a Greek salad."

Off she went and came back a couple of minutes later with the salad and:
'Chef says it's a Greek salad.'

At this point I seized it, marched into the kitchens, slammed it down on
a surface, and hollered that a Greek salad was composed of a nice lot of
feta cheese, lots of cucumber, lots of tomatoes, a bare minimum of
lettuce and quite definitely decent olives, not stuffed cocktail ones.

There was a deathly hush.....

[Cab]

Post by The Older Gentleman
I'm with you on the food, and note you make the subtle but essential
distinction between 'being prepared' and 'being served'.
Shite service in restaurants and hotels really, really annoys me.[1]

I'll criticise food, but will rarely send it back. I just don't go back
to the restaurant concerned.

Mind you, I tend not to eat in shite restaurants. :-)

[MattG]

Post by Cab

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold
luggage; taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each
end of the flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

I'm not in a hurry, as a rule. I just CBA to wait for my luggage. I
get bored, see.

He'd never fit enough shoes in hand luggage

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Paul Corfield
Long haul tends to have much longer check in queues and far more luggage
being carried with the majority going in the hold. A small proportion of
people - probably those going business or First - may opt to travel only
with cabin luggage as they get a better allowance.

If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold luggage;
taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each end of the
flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

My time is precious to *me* since it's almost always business travel.

If I've got to retrieve luggage from the carousel on the outbound leg
I'm losing business time, on the homebound leg it's *my* time 'cos the
sooner I get my luggage the sooner I can get out of the fucking airport.

Actually, in general time is the commodity I'm shortest of. I can't
find enough time to fit my life into. Still, I suppose it's better than
the alternative of not having enough life to fit my time into.

[Champ]

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk

Post by Champ

Post by d***@burnt.org.uk
If I'm away for less than three or four days I never take hold luggage;
taking hold luggage wastes about 30 minutes or so at each end of the
flight.

I'm rarely in that much of a hurry.

My time is precious to *me* since it's almost always business travel.

Yet one other reason why I strongly dislike business travel.

[Cab]

Post by SteveH
Ramp back security to pre-alert levels but leave the hand luggage ban
in place. Negligible extra cost given that most people fly with hold
luggage, lots of extra cash generated from airside retail.

I think that's bollox. 'specially IME.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by SteveH
Stuff bought airside can be taken on as hand luggage.
What was that about them not using it as an opportunity to generate
extra profits?

Well that's fine then and I'm happy.

I can buy books when I next fly.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

Post by BGN
Some complete and utter fuckwits also wish to make a short term work
around a long term investment. I imagine it's purely because they
have shares in some airport shop that sells purple Smarties and have a
selection of moody fiction to get shot of.

Just as ebay became flooded with confiscated knives after the previous
ban, I foresee a glut of filched ipods on the market.

[Christofire]

Post by Champ
It is. I'd quite happily accept a plane full of people blowing up
every few months - that's a cost of freedom I could understand.

I'm not sure I'd be for it if I was on the jumbo. Although this week it
was small jets and Fokkers, so for now you can crack on with the Jumbo
idea.

[wessie]

Post by Paul Corfield
It's all barking mad anyway. Still if it remains in place in a few weeks
when it is my hols then I doubt I'm going abroad - no way am I standing
in a queue for 10 hours to get on a plane.

I looked into the fly/drive option for my jaunt to the Black Forest & Reims
next week. There wasn't a huge difference in price if we went from Stansted
at some unspeakable hour.

I'm feeling quite smug that I chose the drive-ferry-drive option. The
possibility of stocking up with cheaper booze on the way back had nothing
to do with the decision of course.

There's no reason why you cannot go for an overseas trip. September is a
lovely time to go motorcycle touring in the Alps, Dolomites etc.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by wessie

Post by Paul Corfield
It's all barking mad anyway. Still if it remains in place in a few weeks
when it is my hols then I doubt I'm going abroad - no way am I standing
in a queue for 10 hours to get on a plane.

I looked into the fly/drive option for my jaunt to the Black Forest & Reims
next week. There wasn't a huge difference in price if we went from Stansted
at some unspeakable hour.

I keep meaning to do an Interrail again - perhaps that is an alternative
option with a bit of forward planning for accommodation and nice whizzy
fast trains that I've not been on before e.g. ICE in Germany.

Post by wessie
I'm feeling quite smug that I chose the drive-ferry-drive option. The
possibility of stocking up with cheaper booze on the way back had nothing
to do with the decision of course.

You, bring back drink? - sorry can't believe it.

Post by wessie
There's no reason why you cannot go for an overseas trip. September is a
lovely time to go motorcycle touring in the Alps, Dolomites etc.

I know this will sound barmy but I do not think I could ride a bike
through mountain passes or on precipitous bridges. I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on a
TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

[wessie]

Post by Paul Corfield
I know this will sound barmy but I do not think I could ride a bike
through mountain passes or on precipitous bridges. I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on
a TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

You big girl's blouse!

I can't work out my head for heights, mind. Ask me to climb a ladder and
clear some leaves from the guttering of a 2 storey building and I get a bit
wobbly at the knees. Yet, I have no problem riding mountain passes with
nothing but air on one side or travelling in a cable car. I'm fine doing
aerobatics in a Chipmunk or riding rollercoasters[1] too. Weird, me.

[1] trip to the Black Forest will include visiting this theme park
http://www.europapark.de/index.php?lang=en

[Paul Corfield]

Post by wessie

Post by Paul Corfield
I know this will sound barmy but I do not think I could ride a bike
through mountain passes or on precipitous bridges. I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on
a TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

You big girl's blouse!

Yes - what colour pink or blue, sweetie?

Post by wessie
I can't work out my head for heights, mind. Ask me to climb a ladder and
clear some leaves from the guttering of a 2 storey building and I get a bit
wobbly at the knees. Yet, I have no problem riding mountain passes with
nothing but air on one side or travelling in a cable car. I'm fine doing
aerobatics in a Chipmunk or riding rollercoasters[1] too. Weird, me.

I think many people who have some fear of heights are like this. Flying
is no problem, I can climb a ladder reasonably OK and looking down a
hill or a mountain having walked up one is OK. Bridges over water or
precipitous cliff edges or ravines - err no thank you.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by Paul Corfield
I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on a
TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

But, but, but... you've got an R1150GS.

[wessie]

Post by The Older Gentleman

Post by Paul Corfield
I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on a
TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

But, but, but... you've got an R1150GS.

Have you seen how much the suspension compresses when a gentleman of my
stature sits astride one? Now think about my stature in relation to
Paul's....

[Paul Corfield]

Post by wessie

Post by The Older Gentleman

Post by Paul Corfield
I nearly panicked
going over some scary bridge near a toll area on the A26 in France on a
TOG Tour - scared of heights see.

But, but, but... you've got an R1150GS.

Have you seen how much the suspension compresses when a gentleman of my
stature sits astride one? Now think about my stature in relation to
Paul's....

I think the current favoured response to comments like this is "fuck
off".

[Cab]

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by wessie

Post by The Older Gentleman
But, but, but... you've got an R1150GS.

Have you seen how much the suspension compresses when a gentleman
of my stature sits astride one? Now think about my stature in
relation to Paul's....

I think the current favoured response to comments like this is "fuck
off".

BWAHAHA. Nice bite. :-)

[Pip Luscher]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:13:07 +0200, "Cab"

Post by Cab

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by wessie

Post by The Older Gentleman
But, but, but... you've got an R1150GS.

Have you seen how much the suspension compresses when a gentleman
of my stature sits astride one? Now think about my stature in
relation to Paul's....

I think the current favoured response to comments like this is "fuck
off".

BWAHAHA. Nice bite. :-)

I'm sure it it customary in such circumstances to refer to a
nasally-unusual child of a single-parent family as well.

[Tosspot]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

I think this whole thing is bollicks. The reasoning is for me is thus;

We check luggage and if we don't have a passenger we remove the luggage.

We X-Ray/Examine/scan hand luggage because no one in their right mind
would blow themselves up.

So, now we put the luggage in the hold and assume no one will board the
plane in the sure knowledge they will die.

Yeah right. But I've had a few beers!

I can't wait for the next Lufthansa business flight when they give me a
steel knife and fork for eating[1]. I *am* going to nick it and return
it on the next flight, after all, it belongs to them >:-)

[1] They thoughtfully stamp it 'Lufthansa'.

[s***@hotmail.co.uk]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Question. Given that the airside shops aren't run by BAA, but by WH
Smiths, Dixons etc just how will BAA make a "killing", bad choice of
phrase notwithstanding?

[SteveH]

Post by s***@hotmail.co.uk

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

Question. Given that the airside shops aren't run by BAA, but by WH
Smiths, Dixons etc just how will BAA make a "killing", bad choice of
phrase notwithstanding?

Depends on the deal they have with the retailers, but I know some work
on a fixed fee + percentage of turnover.

[Veggie Dave]

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

BAA just increased the amount of hand luggage they allow on their
flights. It's a good selling point.

[Ace]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:01:09 +0100, Veggie Dave

Post by Veggie Dave

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

BAA just increased the amount of hand luggage they allow on their
flights. It's a good selling point.

Not sure if I'm missing a joke here or what. First, BAA don't do
flights, they're the airport operator. Secondly, neither they, nor BA,
have any changed guidlines on their websites.

So what you on about?

[BGN]

Post by Ace

Post by Veggie Dave

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

BAA just increased the amount of hand luggage they allow on their
flights. It's a good selling point.

Not sure if I'm missing a joke here or what. First, BAA don't do
flights, they're the airport operator. Secondly, neither they, nor BA,
have any changed guidlines on their websites.
So what you on about?

I'm not sure. IIRC BA, on some routes, will permit a piece of hand
baggage up to 8Kg to be taken into the hold if you book their World
Traveller Plus seats. WTP is their Long Haul premium economy product.

[d***@burnt.org.uk]

Post by BGN

Post by Ace

Post by Veggie Dave

Post by SteveH
I can't see any of these hand luggage restrictions being lifted any time
soon, 'cos BAA will be making a killing from their 'airside' shops until
things get back to normal.

BAA just increased the amount of hand luggage they allow on their
flights. It's a good selling point.

Not sure if I'm missing a joke here or what. First, BAA don't do
flights, they're the airport operator. Secondly, neither they, nor BA,
have any changed guidlines on their websites.
So what you on about?

I'm not sure. IIRC BA, on some routes, will permit a piece of hand
baggage up to 8Kg to be taken into the hold if you book their World
Traveller Plus seats. WTP is their Long Haul premium economy product.

BA have recently changed their cabin luggage allowance for economy to
two pieces of luggage IIRC.