OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"

[Lynn McGuire]

OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"

https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."

"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."

"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”

"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."

"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"

"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."

Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting.  The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

How do I say this diplomatically...

I know!

YOU'RE A FUCKING DANGEROUS IDIOT.

Let's take everything you say at face value.

"The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December
1968 and peaking a year later.

...

It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S."

So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

COVID-19 has killed...

(checking for exact figures)

...68,602 since it arrive in the US...

...LESS THAN 4 MONTHS AGO!

And that is with all the efforts that have been put into slowing its spread.

What do you imagine the death toll would be TODAY if we hadn't enacted
the measures that have been put in place, you fucking ignorant twit?

[Chrysi Cat]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible
to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging
her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today.
Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John
Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert.
In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock
concert of August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of
death – actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that
only peaked globally six months later. There was no thought given to
the virus which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a
non-concert-going demographic."
Interesting.  The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

How do I say this diplomatically...
I know!
YOU'RE A FUCKING DANGEROUS IDIOT.
Let's take everything you say at face value.
"The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving  December
1968 and peaking a year later.
...
It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S."
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.
COVID-19 has killed...
(checking for exact figures)
...68,602 since it arrive in the US...
...LESS THAN 4 MONTHS AGO!
And that is with all the efforts that have been put into slowing its spread.
What do you imagine the death toll would be TODAY if we hadn't enacted
the measures that have been put in place, you fucking ignorant twit?

He's already made that clear.

He thinks it'd be 68,602 "because obviously if you're meant to catch it,
you're meant to catch it, and all this cowardly hiding is doing nothing
other than destroying the economy for no reason."

It's ridiculously easy to disprove, just by showing how every social
gathering since February leads to close to half the participants
infected, but it /is/ his belief.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...

It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has proven that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his choice of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.

The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.

John Savard

[Peter Trei]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...
It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has proven that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his choice of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.
The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.
John Savard

In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In NYC it's now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of deaths from the virus that aren't being recorded as such.

I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

Pt

[Wolffan]

Post by Peter Trei

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...
It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has proven that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his choice of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.
The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.
John Savard

In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In NYC it's
now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of deaths from the
virus that aren't being recorded as such.
I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total
.html
Pt

this ain’t over yet. there’s gonna be lots and lots and lots of fun, fun,
FUN, especially in areas which ‘reopen’ quickly.

Time to buy stock in companies which make ventilators and other hospital
equipment. Time to sell stock in airlines, bus lines, trainlines, and
cruiseship companies, if you can find someone who’ll take such stock off
your hands.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Wolffan

Post by Peter Trei

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...
It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has proven that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his choice of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.
The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.
John Savard

In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In NYC it's
now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of deaths from the
virus that aren't being recorded as such.
I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total
.html
Pt

this ain’t over yet. there’s gonna be lots and lots and lots of fun, fun,
FUN, especially in areas which ‘reopen’ quickly.
Time to buy stock in companies which make ventilators and other hospital
equipment. Time to sell stock in airlines, bus lines, trainlines, and
cruiseship companies, if you can find someone who’ll take such stock off
your hands.

There are now over 100,000 ventilators sitting in warehouses around the
USA. New York State just shipped their excess ventilators to other
states. In other words, I would not invest in ventilator companies.

Warren Buffet just sold his airline stocks. Gook luck in following that
event.

And as far as people walking about, “More than 370 workers at a pork
plant in Missouri tested positive for coronavirus. All were asymptomatic”

https://us.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/triumph-foods-outbreak-missouri/index.html

“373 employees and contract workers at Triumph Foods in Buchanan County,
Missouri, have tested positive for coronavirus. All of them were
asymptomatic, according to a press release from the Missouri Department
of Health and Senior Services.”

If this is true, there is a bunch of Covid Mary’s and Covid Jim’s
walking around out there infecting the rest of us. If people do not
have symptoms, the only way to know is to test them. And this is not
the antibody test, this is the full blown test. We have only managed to
test 7 million in the USA so far, only 321 million to go. That won't be
happening for a year or two or five.

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Wolffan

Post by Peter Trei

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...
It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has
proven
that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his
choice
of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.
The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.
John Savard

In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In NYC it's
now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of deaths from the
virus that aren't being recorded as such.
I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total
.html
Pt

this ain’t over yet. there’s gonna be lots and lots and lots of fun, fun,
FUN, especially in areas which ‘reopen’ quickly.
Time to buy stock in companies which make ventilators and other hospital
equipment. Time to sell stock in airlines, bus lines, trainlines, and
cruiseship companies, if you can find someone who’ll take such stock off
your hands.

There are now over 100,000 ventilators sitting in warehouses around the
USA.  New York State just shipped their excess ventilators to other
states.  In other words, I would not invest in ventilator companies.
Warren Buffet just sold his airline stocks.  Gook luck in following that
event.
And as far as people walking about, “More than 370 workers at a pork
plant in Missouri tested positive for coronavirus.  All were asymptomatic”
https://us.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/triumph-foods-outbreak-missouri/index.html
“373 employees and contract workers at Triumph Foods in Buchanan County,
Missouri, have tested positive for coronavirus.  All of them were
asymptomatic, according to a press release from the Missouri Department
of Health and Senior Services.”
If this is true, there is a bunch of Covid Mary’s and Covid Jim’s
walking around out there infecting the rest of us.  If people do not
have symptoms, the only way to know is to test them.  And this is not
the antibody test, this is the full blown test.  We have only managed to
test 7 million in the USA so far, only 321 million to go.  That won't be
happening for a year or two or five.

And...

And hear me out.

...we could tell people to distance themselves...

...and stay home from jobs that aren't absolutely essential...

...BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ASYMPTOMATIC AND SPREADING
THIS DISEASE.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Wolffan

Post by Peter Trei

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Alan Baker
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR (assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

To be a little more diplomatic...
It's the "American Institute for Economic Research" that clearly has proven that
one should not trust a word it says... not Lynn McGuire, even if his choice of
web sites to accept information from is questionable.
The charge of deliberate dishonesty ought to be placed where it belongs.
John Savard

In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In NYC it's
now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of deaths from the
virus that aren't being recorded as such.
I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total
.html
Pt

this ain’t over yet. there’s gonna be lots and lots and lots of fun, fun,
FUN, especially in areas which ‘reopen’ quickly.
Time to buy stock in companies which make ventilators and other hospital
equipment. Time to sell stock in airlines, bus lines, trainlines, and
cruiseship companies, if you can find someone who’ll take such stock off
your hands.

There are now over 100,000 ventilators sitting in warehouses around the
USA. New York State just shipped their excess ventilators to other
states. In other words, I would not invest in ventilator companies.
Warren Buffet just sold his airline stocks. Gook luck in following that
event.
And as far as people walking about, “More than 370 workers at a pork
plant in Missouri tested positive for coronavirus. All were asymptomatic”
https://us.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/triumph-foods-outbreak-missouri/index.html
“373 employees and contract workers at Triumph Foods in Buchanan County,
Missouri, have tested positive for coronavirus. All of them were
asymptomatic, according to a press release from the Missouri Department
of Health and Senior Services.”
If this is true, there is a bunch of Covid Mary’s and Covid Jim’s
walking around out there infecting the rest of us. If people do not
have symptoms, the only way to know is to test them. And this is not
the antibody test, this is the full blown test. We have only managed to
test 7 million in the USA so far, only 321 million to go. That won't be
happening for a year or two or five.

/All/ of them were asymptomatic? Odd... Maybe there's a new
asymptomatic strain of the virus. In other words: a vaccine.

Or maybe pork produces false positive results, or else it's
a remedy...

Which presents a dilemma around the Hasidic Jewish funeral
issue...

Or, Triumph Foods wants you to /think/ they have a remedy,
and they cheated on the test...

[Titus G]

On 5/05/20 3:14 am, Peter Trei wrote:
snip

Post by Peter Trei
In many places, the overall death rate (all causes) is spiking; In
NYC it's now about 5 times normal. This suggests there are a lot of
deaths from the virus that aren't being recorded as such.
I don't know how nasty the paywall will be for you, but this is an eye opener
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

Coronavirus articles from the NYT are free so far. .

[Wolffan]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

How do I say this diplomatically...
I know!
YOU'RE A FUCKING DANGEROUS IDIOT.
Let's take everything you say at face value.
"The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December
1968 and peaking a year later.
...
It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S."
So over the course of something MORE THAN A YEAR

closer to 18 months

Post by Alan Baker
(assuming you're right
which I wouldn't even if you were telling me the colour of the Ford
pickup you're so proud of), this flue killed 100,000 people.

a bit less, in the US, about a million worldwide

Post by Alan Baker
COVID-19 has killed...
(checking for exact figures)
...68,602 since it arrive in the US...
...LESS THAN 4 MONTHS AGO!
And that is with all the efforts that have been put into slowing its spread.
What do you imagine the death toll would be TODAY if we hadn't enacted
the measures that have been put in place, you fucking ignorant twit?

he’s an ignoramus and is proud of it.

[Wolffan]

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...

1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United States_,
killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under 1/10th of the
worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The current pandemic has
killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less than six months. Let me put
this another way: in less than one third of the time the current pandemic has
killed more than two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current
rates we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.

2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong Flu
spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t serious _in the
US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very serious _in the US_. Are
you going to guarantee that the current pandemic will look more like 1968
than 1918? Really? Because you want to _go to the movies_?!

3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu

Quote:

It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's terrible and dreadful, man
It's terrible and dreadful, man
You have to rub up, rub up with a langawata
Rub up, rub up with a langawata

It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...

4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto you: go
right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you catch something in
your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you won’t get any.

[Titus G]

snip

4 if you [Lynn McGuire] want to wander the globe, or even just
Texas, I say onto you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near
_me_. And if you catch something in your travels, don’t expect
sympathy, for you won’t get any.

Given the McGuire family state of health as reported here, they will all
be straight to the morgue, (or the local mass grave), at the first whiff
of a Covid-19 sneeze.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Wolffan

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United States_,
killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under 1/10th of the
worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The current pandemic has
killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less than six months. Let me put
this another way: in less than one third of the time the current pandemic has
killed more than two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current
rates we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong Flu
spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t serious _in the
US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very serious _in the US_. Are
you going to guarantee that the current pandemic will look more like 1968
than 1918? Really? Because you want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's terrible and dreadful, man
It's terrible and dreadful, man
You have to rub up, rub up with a langawata
Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto you: go
right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you catch something in
your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million. In
fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the USA
is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu today
in the USA would be 164,000.

I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally sheet:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is number
one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the little arrows
next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in the list at 209
deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the smaller countries like
San Marino (number one), the countries Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK,
France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more deaths / 1 million population
than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths / 1 million population to Ireland
at 267 deaths / 1 million population. Sweden never locked down and is
at 274 deaths / 1 million population with an older population than the USA.

What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I can
guess is western European and older populations. The fact that Sweden
never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not locked down,
would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Lynn McGuire

On 04 May 2020, Lynn McGuire wrote (in article

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the
United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United
States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It
ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age
of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It
was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be
possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and
demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths
today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly
and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to
wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the
H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the
combined total number of American fatalities during both the
Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and
encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly
forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants.
John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful
Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that
the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January
during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a
deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months
later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours
today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United
States_, killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under
1/10th of the worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The
current pandemic has killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less
than six months. Let me put this another way: in less than one
third of the time the current pandemic has killed more than
two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current rates
we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong
Flu spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t
serious _in the US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very
serious _in the US_. Are you going to guarantee that the current
pandemic will look more like 1968 than 1918? Really? Because you
want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's
terrible and dreadful, man It's terrible and dreadful, man You have
to rub up, rub up with a langawata Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto
you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you
catch something in your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you
won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million.
In fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the
USA is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu
today in the USA would be 164,000.

Over EIGHTEEN MONTHS...

...which means you're STILL a fucking ignoramus.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally
sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in
the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the
smaller countries like San Marino (number one), the countries
Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more
deaths / 1 million population than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths /
1 million population to Ireland at 267 deaths / 1 million population.
Sweden never locked down and is at 274 deaths / 1 million population
with an older population than the USA.

Wow!

Congratulations!

You're 14th...

...on a list that includes a bunch of places that probably don't HAVE a
population of a single million.

Sweden has an actual constitutional limitation on what they were allowed
to do, you fucking moron.

Post by Lynn McGuire
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I
can guess is western European and older populations. The fact that
Sweden never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not
locked down, would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

The US would be much, much worse than it is right now, you fucking moron.

You being a moron was cute when it was about global warming and your
imagined right to fuck up the planet for grandchildren you probably
don't have.

Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

[Carl Fink]

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.

To kill Dorothy Heydt.

She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.

I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)

So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

[Wolffan]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

that’s it exactly.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Yes.

Exactly.

I'm 58 myself.

I believe I have a robust immune system, but I'm hardly a medical
expert. I'm also blood type A (and male).

But honestly, I don't care so much about myself as I do about the people
I care about who are older than myself.

My step-dad will be 77 years old on September 6.

A golfing buddy of mine is 56, and he actually has it. So we're all
holding our breath.

I know a whole bunch of folks who want to be racing cars...

...but we're not, because the demographic skews heavily to older than I am.

But dangerous idiots like Lynn just want everything to go back to
"normal"...

...where their definition of "normal" includes a whole bunch of people
dying whom they all hope don't turn out to be people that matter to them.

I'm sick of it. I'm sick of listening to their pious mouthings about
their "rights".

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.

Only if it can catch me.

Post by Carl Fink
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.

Quite possibly.

(Hey, and I have COPD, too. The chronic-bronchitis kind, not the
emphysema kind, which is much worse.)

However, I have not gone outside the house since March 19, when
Governor Newsom put out the original stay-at-home order. And I
hadn't been outside much (except for church on Sunday) before that,
because it was cold out.

Post by Carl Fink
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)

I'm O-positive and female. Maybe it all balances out? In any
case, I'm not going outside till someone on the order of Dr.
Fauci, or my own primary-care doctor, tells me I can, never mind
what Trump or anybody else says.

Post by Carl Fink
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Well, Hal and I are both retired. Our son-in-law is working from
home. Our daughter is still going out to work (legal services
are deemed "essential"), but OTOH what Meg and her boss the lawyer
can do is limited by the fact that all the courthouses in the
Greater Bay Area have been closed since March so she doesn't have
to drive around from Redwood City to Martinez, or thereabouts, to
file papers. And the sanitation procedures they use when a
client comes in are admirable.

As to supporting the economy, we've decided we can support local
business by getting takeout for dinner every Friday (Meg buys it
on her way home) so that NEITHER MEG NOR I HAVE TO COOK.

This Friday will be Hal's and my 49th anniversary; Meg is talking
about getting takeout from Black Bear.

I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.

Only if it can catch me.

Post by Carl Fink
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.

Quite possibly.
(Hey, and I have COPD, too. The chronic-bronchitis kind, not the
emphysema kind, which is much worse.)
However, I have not gone outside the house since March 19, when
Governor Newsom put out the original stay-at-home order. And I
hadn't been outside much (except for church on Sunday) before that,
because it was cold out.

Post by Carl Fink
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)

I'm O-positive and female. Maybe it all balances out? In any
case, I'm not going outside till someone on the order of Dr.
Fauci, or my own primary-care doctor, tells me I can, never mind
what Trump or anybody else says.

Post by Carl Fink
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Well, Hal and I are both retired. Our son-in-law is working from
home. Our daughter is still going out to work (legal services
are deemed "essential"), but OTOH what Meg and her boss the lawyer
can do is limited by the fact that all the courthouses in the
Greater Bay Area have been closed since March so she doesn't have
to drive around from Redwood City to Martinez, or thereabouts, to
file papers. And the sanitation procedures they use when a
client comes in are admirable.
As to supporting the economy, we've decided we can support local
business by getting takeout for dinner every Friday (Meg buys it
on her way home) so that NEITHER MEG NOR I HAVE TO COOK.
This Friday will be Hal's and my 49th anniversary; Meg is talking
about getting takeout from Black Bear.
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

Congrats on the 49th anniversary ! It is quite the accomplishment and a
good example for your kids and their kids.

My parents are at 60 years, I was born two weeks before their first
anniversary. The wife and I are at 38 years.

Some of the restaurants around here that closed are starting to reopen
now. I was concerned that they had all failed.

As to sanitation, my good friend is an electrical engineer. He
threatens anyone trying to come in his office with a Lysol spray shower.
My employees and I just try to stay away from each other. I just yell
across the building or send an email.

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.

Only if it can catch me.

Post by Carl Fink
She's 77 and has diabetes.  If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.

Quite possibly.
(Hey, and I have COPD, too.  The chronic-bronchitis kind, not the
emphysema kind, which is much worse.)
However, I have not gone outside the house since March 19, when
Governor Newsom put out the original stay-at-home order.  And I
hadn't been outside much (except for church on Sunday) before that,
because it was cold out.

Post by Carl Fink
I am 58 and have diabetes.  If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave
danger,
not as bad as Dorothy.  (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)

I'm O-positive and female.  Maybe it all balances out?  In any
case, I'm not going outside till someone on the order of Dr.
Fauci, or my own primary-care doctor, tells me I can, never mind
what Trump or anybody else says.

Post by Carl Fink
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Well, Hal and I are both retired.  Our son-in-law is working from
home.  Our daughter is still going out to work (legal services
are deemed "essential"), but OTOH what Meg and her boss the lawyer
can do is limited by the fact that all the courthouses in the
Greater Bay Area have been closed since March so she doesn't have
to drive around from Redwood City to Martinez, or thereabouts, to
file papers.  And the sanitation procedures they use when a
client comes in are admirable.
As to supporting the economy, we've decided we can support local
business by getting takeout for dinner every Friday (Meg buys it
on her way home) so that NEITHER MEG NOR I HAVE TO COOK.
This Friday will be Hal's and my 49th anniversary; Meg is talking
about getting takeout from Black Bear.
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

Congrats on the 49th anniversary !  It is quite the accomplishment and a
good example for your kids and their kids.
My parents are at 60 years, I was born two weeks before their first
anniversary.  The wife and I are at 38 years.
Some of the restaurants around here that closed are starting to reopen
now.  I was concerned that they had all failed.

But, shockingly, not concerned at all that people might be dying.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.

Only if it can catch me.

Post by Carl Fink
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.

Quite possibly.
(Hey, and I have COPD, too. The chronic-bronchitis kind, not the
emphysema kind, which is much worse.)
However, I have not gone outside the house since March 19, when
Governor Newsom put out the original stay-at-home order. And I
hadn't been outside much (except for church on Sunday) before that,
because it was cold out.

Post by Carl Fink
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)

I'm O-positive and female. Maybe it all balances out? In any
case, I'm not going outside till someone on the order of Dr.
Fauci, or my own primary-care doctor, tells me I can, never mind
what Trump or anybody else says.

Post by Carl Fink
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Well, Hal and I are both retired. Our son-in-law is working from
home. Our daughter is still going out to work (legal services
are deemed "essential"), but OTOH what Meg and her boss the lawyer
can do is limited by the fact that all the courthouses in the
Greater Bay Area have been closed since March so she doesn't have
to drive around from Redwood City to Martinez, or thereabouts, to
file papers. And the sanitation procedures they use when a
client comes in are admirable.
As to supporting the economy, we've decided we can support local
business by getting takeout for dinner every Friday (Meg buys it
on her way home) so that NEITHER MEG NOR I HAVE TO COOK.
This Friday will be Hal's and my 49th anniversary; Meg is talking
about getting takeout from Black Bear.
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

Congrats on the 49th anniversary ! It is quite the accomplishment and a
good example for your kids and their kids.
My parents are at 60 years, I was born two weeks before their first
anniversary. The wife and I are at 38 years.

Yay for them, and you too!

Post by Lynn McGuire
Some of the restaurants around here that closed are starting to reopen
now. I was concerned that they had all failed.

Some of ours have closed, others offer takeout and/or delivery,
most only do takeout.

Post by Lynn McGuire
As to sanitation, my good friend is an electrical engineer. He
threatens anyone trying to come in his office with a Lysol spray shower.
My employees and I just try to stay away from each other. I just yell
across the building or send an email.

And I hope you're all conscientious about masks. My daughter
made herself one out of leftover Halloween fabric: at first
glance it looks like little orange pumpkins scattered across a
black background, ... and then you get a closer look, and they're
little orange skulls. :)

[Kevrob]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I hope you're all conscientious about masks. My daughter
made herself one out of leftover Halloween fabric: at first
glance it looks like little orange pumpkins scattered across a
black background, ... and then you get a closer look, and they're
little orange skulls. :)

I don't carry a handkerchief often. Even when I have a bad cold
I'd rather keep a box of facial tissue nearby, and a mini-pack of
the same in my pocket. When I do break one out, it's for sticking
in the pocket of my business suit, and I wear that rarely. The last
time was for a friend's funeral, back in the summer. I might use
one as a pocket square, following the old rubric, "one for showin'
and one for blowin'." Now, a few Christmases ago I received some
hankies as a gift. The things are 100% cotton, and massive: a foot
square, easy. Properly folded, they make a nice mask. A little
masking tape keeps them from unfolding, and a spare shoelace knotted
at the corner keeps it on my face. Toss them in the laundry when
they've done the job: wash, rinse, dry.

CVS is charging $1.99 per mask, limit 3. I'll let people who
_must_ go out buy those.

I would like to have one of the ones the fellow in the
passenger seat is sporting:

https://www.comics.org/issue/1151/cover/4/

Mike Axford of The Sentinel would probably blame those
interloping, bee-murdering Asian insects on "the Harnet!"

Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I hope you're all conscientious about masks. My daughter
made herself one out of leftover Halloween fabric: at first
glance it looks like little orange pumpkins scattered across a
black background, ... and then you get a closer look, and they're
little orange skulls. :)

I don't carry a handkerchief often. Even when I have a bad cold
I'd rather keep a box of facial tissue nearby, and a mini-pack of
the same in my pocket. When I do break one out, it's for sticking
in the pocket of my business suit, and I wear that rarely. The last
time was for a friend's funeral, back in the summer. I might use
one as a pocket square, following the old rubric, "one for showin'
and one for blowin'." Now, a few Christmases ago I received some
hankies as a gift. The things are 100% cotton, and massive: a foot
square, easy. Properly folded, they make a nice mask. A little
masking tape keeps them from unfolding, and a spare shoelace knotted
at the corner keeps it on my face. Toss them in the laundry when
they've done the job: wash, rinse, dry.
CVS is charging $1.99 per mask, limit 3. I'll let people who
_must_ go out buy those.
I would like to have one of the ones the fellow in the
https://www.comics.org/issue/1151/cover/4/
Mike Axford of The Sentinel would probably blame those
interloping, bee-murdering Asian insects on "the Harnet!"

I'm missing a reference here.

[Kevrob]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Kevrob

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I hope you're all conscientious about masks. My daughter
made herself one out of leftover Halloween fabric: at first
glance it looks like little orange pumpkins scattered across a
black background, ... and then you get a closer look, and they're
little orange skulls. :)

I don't carry a handkerchief often. Even when I have a bad cold
I'd rather keep a box of facial tissue nearby, and a mini-pack of
the same in my pocket. When I do break one out, it's for sticking
in the pocket of my business suit, and I wear that rarely. The last
time was for a friend's funeral, back in the summer. I might use
one as a pocket square, following the old rubric, "one for showin'
and one for blowin'." Now, a few Christmases ago I received some
hankies as a gift. The things are 100% cotton, and massive: a foot
square, easy. Properly folded, they make a nice mask. A little
masking tape keeps them from unfolding, and a spare shoelace knotted
at the corner keeps it on my face. Toss them in the laundry when
they've done the job: wash, rinse, dry.
CVS is charging $1.99 per mask, limit 3. I'll let people who
_must_ go out buy those.
I would like to have one of the ones the fellow in the
https://www.comics.org/issue/1151/cover/4/
Mike Axford of The Sentinel would probably blame those
interloping, bee-murdering Asian insects on "the Harnet!"

I'm missing a reference here.

Publisher Britt (the Green Hornet) Reid employed Axford as
a reporter, and the role was always played on radio with a
"stage Oirish" accent.

Have you heard of the Giant Hornets up in Washington State?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/05/asian-giant-hornets-arrive-united-states/

Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Kevrob

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And I hope you're all conscientious about masks. My daughter
made herself one out of leftover Halloween fabric: at first
glance it looks like little orange pumpkins scattered across a
black background, ... and then you get a closer look, and they're
little orange skulls. :)

I don't carry a handkerchief often. Even when I have a bad cold
I'd rather keep a box of facial tissue nearby, and a mini-pack of
the same in my pocket. When I do break one out, it's for sticking
in the pocket of my business suit, and I wear that rarely. The last
time was for a friend's funeral, back in the summer. I might use
one as a pocket square, following the old rubric, "one for showin'
and one for blowin'." Now, a few Christmases ago I received some
hankies as a gift. The things are 100% cotton, and massive: a foot
square, easy. Properly folded, they make a nice mask. A little
masking tape keeps them from unfolding, and a spare shoelace knotted
at the corner keeps it on my face. Toss them in the laundry when
they've done the job: wash, rinse, dry.
CVS is charging $1.99 per mask, limit 3. I'll let people who
_must_ go out buy those.
I would like to have one of the ones the fellow in the
https://www.comics.org/issue/1151/cover/4/
Mike Axford of The Sentinel would probably blame those
interloping, bee-murdering Asian insects on "the Harnet!"

I'm missing a reference here.

Publisher Britt (the Green Hornet) Reid employed Axford as
a reporter, and the role was always played on radio with a
"stage Oirish" accent.

So he would've pronounced "Hornet" as "Harnet?" I live in the
States, we don't hear much in the way of Irish accents around the
Bay Area, whether stage or genuine.

Post by Kevrob
Have you heard of the Giant Hornets up in Washington State?
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/05/asian-giant-hornets-arrive-united-states/

Yes. Drat it. The last thing (well, one of the last things) we
need now is something *else* taking down the bee population.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

If there were justice in the world, perhaps.

But my understanding is that the dumb teenager will almost certainly get off
with nothing more than a bout of something a bit worse than the 'flu - and some
permanent lung damage, and perhaps discolored toes.

I count myself fortunate that I live in Canada - not in a country where, since
Republican-voting farmers are being inconvenienced, Democratic-voting meat
packing plant workers are being ordered back to work even if it kills them. (Had
Trump cared about their lives, he would have made efforts to get PPE for the
meat-packing plants *without* using the Defence Production Act to put any
pressure on the plants to re-open until it was clear it was safe to do so.)

John Savard

[Paul S Person]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

If there were justice in the world, perhaps.
But my understanding is that the dumb teenager will almost certainly get off
with nothing more than a bout of something a bit worse than the 'flu - and some
permanent lung damage, and perhaps discolored toes.
I count myself fortunate that I live in Canada - not in a country where, since
Republican-voting farmers are being inconvenienced, Democratic-voting meat
packing plant workers are being ordered back to work even if it kills them. (Had
Trump cared about their lives, he would have made efforts to get PPE for the
meat-packing plants *without* using the Defence Production Act to put any
pressure on the plants to re-open until it was clear it was safe to do so.)

But ... but ... but ...

that would have required him to /think/

something that is clearly impossible.

And, anyway, if he did that, there'd be no way to make money on the
deal.

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I suspect our chances of getting to our 50th are better than
those of some dumb teenager crowding onto the beach of getting to
Labor Day.

If there were justice in the world, perhaps.
But my understanding is that the dumb teenager will almost certainly get off
with nothing more than a bout of something a bit worse than the 'flu - and some
permanent lung damage, and perhaps discolored toes.

Unless in a bout of drunken stupor he wraps his car around a tree.

Post by Quadibloc
I count myself fortunate that I live in Canada - not in a country where, since
Republican-voting farmers are being inconvenienced, Democratic-voting meat
packing plant workers are being ordered back to work even if it kills them.

Uh, Democratic and Republican-voting hungry people are also being
inconvenienced you know.

Post by Quadibloc
(Had
Trump cared about their lives, he would have made efforts to get PPE for the
meat-packing plants *without* using the Defence Production Act to put any
pressure on the plants to re-open until it was clear it was safe to do so.)

Is there any evidence that they don't already have PPE? These are not
tiny struggling mom-and-pop businesses you know.

[Carl Fink]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
However, I have not gone outside the house since March 19, when
Governor Newsom put out the original stay-at-home order. And I
hadn't been outside much (except for church on Sunday) before that,
because it was cold out.

Unfortunately, you have people living with you who do. You are doing the
right thing, but it isn't impregnable armor. I wish it was.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.
She's 77 and has diabetes. If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.
I am 58 and have diabetes. If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave danger,
not as bad as Dorothy. (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Please remove me from this conversation. I do not wish that Dorothy or
anyone (you especially) dies. To say that I wish that Dorothy dies is a
false representation of me.

BTW, I am sorry that you have diabetes. Several of my relatives have
diabetes and are struggling with it. My uncle runs up into the 300+
range routinely and is very close to losing his vision. I will be 60
next month and am hoping that I do not get it. Not enough to lose 30 to
40 lbs though.

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Alan Baker
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

Let's be exact.
To kill Dorothy Heydt.
She's 77 and has diabetes.  If she gets the disease she is in terrible
danger.
I am 58 and have diabetes.  If I get COVID-19, I'm "only" in grave
danger,
not as bad as Dorothy.  (I have blood type A and am male, both also risk
factors.)
So Lynn is happy to kill me to (fail to) keep businesses going.

Please remove me from this conversation.  I do not wish that Dorothy or
anyone (you especially) dies.  To say that I wish that Dorothy dies is a
false representation of me.

No one has claimed that you WISH it, asshole.

It's that you don't give a fuck what happens to her or (literally)
thousands of people...

...so long as your favourite restaurant reopens.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I am sorry that you have diabetes. Several of my relatives have
diabetes and are struggling with it. My uncle runs up into the 300+
range routinely and is very close to losing his vision. I will be 60
next month and am hoping that I do not get it. Not enough to lose 30 to
40 lbs though.

Oh, dear, I hope your uncle is taking the best care of himself
that he can, and that he has a good endocrinologist. My sugars
run between 120s and 160s, and my endocrinologist says,
considering my age and weight, that's fine with her.

As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."

But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I am sorry that you have diabetes. Several of my relatives have
diabetes and are struggling with it. My uncle runs up into the 300+
range routinely and is very close to losing his vision. I will be 60
next month and am hoping that I do not get it. Not enough to lose 30 to
40 lbs though.

Oh, dear, I hope your uncle is taking the best care of himself
that he can, and that he has a good endocrinologist. My sugars
run between 120s and 160s, and my endocrinologist says,
considering my age and weight, that's fine with her.
As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."
But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

The wife and I did the South Beach diet about 16 years ago. I lost 40
lbs and she lost 30 lbs. I have regained 10 lbs and she (I am not going
there). At the end of our South Beach diet she was diagnosed with
breast cancer, stage 2b. That was a year of hell for her, five
surgeries and a year of chemo.

I am 6'1" and weigh 245 lbs. Dropping to 210 or so would be nice, that
is what I weighed in college but, I could bench press 330 lbs then and
squat 540 lbs. I am a pansy now. I did lift my mother and her
wheelchair the other day up eight inches over a door threshold, she
weighs about what you do. Her wheelchair weighs about 14 lbs, Dad got
her the lightweight so he can lift it in and out of the car trunk. But
it has small wheels.

Note to self: get a temporary ramp for the office and the house. Much
easier.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I am sorry that you have diabetes. Several of my relatives have
diabetes and are struggling with it. My uncle runs up into the 300+
range routinely and is very close to losing his vision. I will be 60
next month and am hoping that I do not get it. Not enough to lose 30 to
40 lbs though.

Oh, dear, I hope your uncle is taking the best care of himself
that he can, and that he has a good endocrinologist. My sugars
run between 120s and 160s, and my endocrinologist says,
considering my age and weight, that's fine with her.
As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."
But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

The wife and I did the South Beach diet about 16 years ago. I lost 40
lbs and she lost 30 lbs. I have regained 10 lbs and she (I am not going
there). At the end of our South Beach diet she was diagnosed with
breast cancer, stage 2b. That was a year of hell for her, five
surgeries and a year of chemo.
I am 6'1" and weigh 245 lbs. Dropping to 210 or so would be nice, that
is what I weighed in college but, I could bench press 330 lbs then and
squat 540 lbs. I am a pansy now. I did lift my mother and her
wheelchair the other day up eight inches over a door threshold, she
weighs about what you do. Her wheelchair weighs about 14 lbs, Dad got
her the lightweight so he can lift it in and out of the car trunk. But
it has small wheels.
Note to self: get a temporary ramp for the office and the house. Much
easier.

Good plan. My daughter's planning to get me a lightweight,
folding wheelchair for the next time we have to go through an
airport (whenever that will be: she's praying to assorted gods for
Disneyland in November, which might or might not happen). I could
wish we could get a ramp for our front steps, but they're way too
steep. And there's no handrail; when I have to go up or down
them I have to clutch at the branches of the hedge.

I don't know if you've seen _Jumanji: The Next Level._ It's a
hoot. Danny deVito plays an elderly man recovering from a broken
hip, who keeps saying "Old age stinks, don't let anybody tell you
any different." But then he is transported into a video game
(cf. the previous film, _Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle_) and his
character has to be played by two different actors in sequence,
NYawk accent and all. (He coached them.) When they get back to
what we may as well call Real Life, he's changed his tune:
"Getting old is great!" After all, it beats the alternative.

[Lynn McGuire]

On 5/5/2020 2:50 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
...

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Good plan. My daughter's planning to get me a lightweight,
folding wheelchair for the next time we have to go through an
airport (whenever that will be: she's praying to assorted gods for
Disneyland in November, which might or might not happen). I could
wish we could get a ramp for our front steps, but they're way too
steep. And there's no handrail; when I have to go up or down
them I have to clutch at the branches of the hedge.
I don't know if you've seen _Jumanji: The Next Level._ It's a
hoot. Danny deVito plays an elderly man recovering from a broken
hip, who keeps saying "Old age stinks, don't let anybody tell you
any different." But then he is transported into a video game
(cf. the previous film, _Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle_) and his
character has to be played by two different actors in sequence,
NYawk accent and all. (He coached them.) When they get back to
"Getting old is great!" After all, it beats the alternative.

We are going to be playing with the SARS-COV-2 for the next two years.
Please stay inside and tell Hal not to bring it back home.

Here is the lightweight wheelchair (14 lbs) (I think !) that my 81 year
father is using with my 78 year old mother.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001MBCS6K/

I need to see the Jumangi: The Next Level movie. The first (Robin
Williams) and second (Dwayne "Rock" Johnson) movies were awesome.

Mom broke her hip on Christmas day of 2018. The first three hip
surgeries went bad, the 4th was the charm. Except, her leg nerve died
from mid-thigh to her toes and is growing back at 1 mm/day (yes, that is
two years). Six months of hell for the two of them. Mom is in
remission for stage 4 endometrial cancer and the first surgeon did not
take the radiation damage into account. Her hip bleed into an abscess
after the first surgery. The hip abscess compressed the leg nerve and
killed it, took about 48 hours.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire
...

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Good plan. My daughter's planning to get me a lightweight,
folding wheelchair for the next time we have to go through an
airport (whenever that will be: she's praying to assorted gods for
Disneyland in November, which might or might not happen). I could
wish we could get a ramp for our front steps, but they're way too
steep. And there's no handrail; when I have to go up or down
them I have to clutch at the branches of the hedge.
I don't know if you've seen _Jumanji: The Next Level._ It's a
hoot. Danny deVito plays an elderly man recovering from a broken
hip, who keeps saying "Old age stinks, don't let anybody tell you
any different." But then he is transported into a video game
(cf. the previous film, _Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle_) and his
character has to be played by two different actors in sequence,
NYawk accent and all. (He coached them.) When they get back to
"Getting old is great!" After all, it beats the alternative.

We are going to be playing with the SARS-COV-2 for the next two years.
Please stay inside and tell Hal not to bring it back home.

Well, he still has to go out shopping, but he wears a mask.

Post by Lynn McGuire
Here is the lightweight wheelchair (14 lbs) (I think !) that my 81 year
father is using with my 78 year old mother.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001MBCS6K/

Thanks. Bookmarked, against the time when we (might) get outside
again.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I need to see the Jumangi: The Next Level movie. The first (Robin
Williams) and second (Dwayne "Rock" Johnson) movies were awesome.

It's available on DVD now. All the teenagers (including Alex,
sort of) are back, and a couple of extra real-world people
playing old and new characters.

Post by Lynn McGuire
Mom broke her hip on Christmas day of 2018. The first three hip
surgeries went bad, the 4th was the charm. Except, her leg nerve died
from mid-thigh to her toes and is growing back at 1 mm/day (yes, that is
two years). Six months of hell for the two of them. Mom is in
remission for stage 4 endometrial cancer and the first surgeon did not
take the radiation damage into account. Her hip bleed into an abscess
after the first surgery. The hip abscess compressed the leg nerve and
killed it, took about 48 hours.

Oh, gosh. I'm so sorry. Still, 1mm/day is better than nothing.
That's about how quickly the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is spreading.
Please send her my best wishes.

[J. Clarke]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Lynn McGuire
BTW, I am sorry that you have diabetes. Several of my relatives have
diabetes and are struggling with it. My uncle runs up into the 300+
range routinely and is very close to losing his vision. I will be 60
next month and am hoping that I do not get it. Not enough to lose 30 to
40 lbs though.

Oh, dear, I hope your uncle is taking the best care of himself
that he can, and that he has a good endocrinologist. My sugars
run between 120s and 160s, and my endocrinologist says,
considering my age and weight, that's fine with her.
As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."
But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

As long as the 20 pounds you take off is fat and not muscle.

[Carl Fink]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."

I lost 100 pounds over two years, and I would bet I'm a bit larger than you
baseline. Just the ADA diabetic diet (which, of course, is also relatively
low-carb). Went from three diabetes meds, a blood pressure med, a diuretic,
and a gout med to ... no meds at all.

http://blog.nitpicking.com/2016/04/before-and-after.html
(I know you've read one entry on my blog before--it was my review of The
Interior Life.)

These days I take vitamin D every day because (for no known reason) my serum
levels run really low.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

I loved being able to climb stairs without panting again.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Carl Fink

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As for you, Lynn, consult your own doctor about a
low-carbohydrate diet. NOT, note, a ketosis diet, which can
(among other things) ruin your kidneys and/or kill you. But a
low-carb diet, like the South Beach Diet (which I've been on for
years) caused me to lose sixty pounds over two years. I'd like
to lose another twenty or so, but my endocrinologist says, "If
you were thirty-five or forty and wanted to get pregnant, I'd go
along with that, but as it is, you don't need to lose more
weight."

I lost 100 pounds over two years, and I would bet I'm a bit larger than you
baseline. Just the ADA diabetic diet (which, of course, is also relatively
low-carb). Went from three diabetes meds, a blood pressure med, a diuretic,
and a gout med to ... no meds at all.
http://blog.nitpicking.com/2016/04/before-and-after.html

Impressive.

Post by Carl Fink
These days I take vitamin D every day because (for no known reason) my serum
levels run really low.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But I'd like to, just because ~160 poundds is a lot of weight to
carry around when one is old and weak.

I loved being able to climb stairs without panting again.

Cool. I have to climb the *seventeen* stairs to the main floor
(we're in the in-law basement) by climbing the handrail hand over
hand like a vine or something.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Lynn McGuire
Please remove me from this conversation. I do not wish that Dorothy or
anyone (you especially) dies. To say that I wish that Dorothy dies is a
false representation of me.

Then why are you posting an article here that contains despicable falsehoods,
which, if people believe them, will lead to people like Dorothy dying?

Of course, there's an answer. You really don't believe the article is lying -
that the influenza of 1968 was not, remotely, as dangerous as the current novel
coronavirus.

Influenza... makes people sick, they recover in a few days, although _some_ of
the elderly and frail who get infected can die from it.

The novel coronavirus... makes people very sick, _most_ young and healthy
people, if they're not exposed to a large viral load (i.e. working in a hospital
without PPE) won't die from it; not just the elderly and frail, but any senior
citizen, anyone with a number of conditions, high blood pressure, Type II
diabetes, and so on, has a *large* chance of dying, from 25% on up.

That's why the current pandemic is _not_ comparable to what was happening in
1968, and, instead, precautions like those that were taken in 1918 for a more
potent strain of the flu are appropriate.

I am amazed that there are people trying to sow confusion about this, and make
it more difficult for elected officials across the United States to take
appropriate actions in response to this public health emergency.

Of course you don't want a United States that has been devastated by the deaths
of a significant proportion of its populations. One where those who are strongly
conservative and identified with support for Donald Trump will be specifically
singled out as being responsible for the tragedy, in which even the most
moderate and legitimate conservative ideas can no longer recieve a fair hearing.

But what you want, and what you're going to get, from a course of action that is
mistaken, accepted without proper thought, based on lies from people advancing
their self-interest instead of the objective facts, as best we know them from
qualified scientific and medical authorities... can be expected to differ.

I don't know what sort of insanity has overtaken the United States, and much of
the world, where what the scientific community says, first about global warming,
and now about the novel coronavirus, is not accepted as being almost as nearly
the truth as the evidence of one's own senses. But somehow pompous politicians
who clearly don't have most people's best interests at heart, have managed to
set themselves up as better authorities than the people who really know what
they're talking about.

John Savard

[Titus G]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Lynn McGuire
Please remove me from this conversation.

Once upon a time there was a parameter option to determine whether
usenet posts would be archived or not. Used by mainly the guilty.

I do not wish that Dorothy or

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Lynn McGuire
anyone (you especially) dies. To say that I wish that Dorothy dies is a
false representation of me.

Then why are you posting an article here that contains despicable falsehoods,
which, if people believe them, will lead to people like Dorothy dying?

Well questioned Mr. Quadibloc.
(Having said that, do I now have to seek psychiatric treatment or will
they automatically contact me?)
snip

Post by Quadibloc
I am amazed that there are people trying to sow confusion about this, and make
it more difficult for elected officials across the United States to take
appropriate actions in response to this public health emergency.

Hey! In the land of the free, people get to chose which Cola or burger
they want and even if they want fries with it but not if they want to
have an unhappy day. If I was an aggressive free person like some on
this forum I would tell you to FUCK OFF but I am not so I won't.

Post by Quadibloc
Of course you don't want a United States that has been devastated by the deaths
of a significant proportion of its populations.

As if that hasn't happened before. (Don't mention colour.)
Perhaps the remaining Zionist billionaires and their lackeys would be
generous enough to create reservations for the remaining paupers.

One where those who are strongly

Post by Quadibloc
conservative and identified with support for Donald Trump will be specifically
singled out as being responsible for the tragedy, in which even the most
moderate and legitimate conservative ideas can no longer recieve a fair hearing.

I before E unless before V.:-)
Perhaps oligarchic advertisements of democracy with policies of freedom
and private ownership believe that each individual should own their own
virus and pay for its maintenance through insurance if employed without
government interference whereas more socialist governments including the
extremes of communism believe that government should deny individual
ownership of viruses.

Post by Quadibloc
But what you want, and what you're going to get, from a course of action that is
mistaken, accepted without proper thought, based on lies from people advancing
their self-interest instead of the objective facts, as best we know them from
qualified scientific and medical authorities... can be expected to differ.

Ha, ha, ha, ha. When has self-interest ever been relevant in the history
of anything?

Post by Quadibloc
I don't know what sort of insanity has overtaken the United States, and much of
the world, where what the scientific community says, first about global warming,
and now about the novel coronavirus, is not accepted as being almost as nearly
the truth as the evidence of one's own senses. But somehow pompous politicians
who clearly don't have most people's best interests at heart, have managed to
set themselves up as better authorities than the people who really know what
they're talking about.

Well, I haven't thought about it much but do you think this insanity
could possibly be a result of self-interest?

Post by Quadibloc
John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Lynn McGuire
Please remove me from this conversation. I do not wish that Dorothy or
anyone (you especially) dies. To say that I wish that Dorothy dies is a
false representation of me.

Then why are you posting an article here that contains despicable falsehoods,
which, if people believe them, will lead to people like Dorothy dying?
Of course, there's an answer. You really don't believe the article is lying -
that the influenza of 1968 was not, remotely, as dangerous as the current novel
coronavirus.
Influenza... makes people sick, they recover in a few days, although _some_ of
the elderly and frail who get infected can die from it.

Quadi, what assertion, exactly, are you questioning? It is a matter
of historical record that 100,000 people died of H3N1 in 1968-69.
Adjust for population and that works out to about 160,000 now.

Post by Quadibloc
The novel coronavirus... makes people very sick, _most_ young and healthy
people, if they're not exposed to a large viral load (i.e. working in a hospital
without PPE) won't die from it; not just the elderly and frail, but any senior
citizen, anyone with a number of conditions, high blood pressure, Type II
diabetes, and so on, has a *large* chance of dying, from 25% on up.

When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

Post by Quadibloc
That's why the current pandemic is _not_ comparable to what was happening in
1968, and, instead, precautions like those that were taken in 1918 for a more
potent strain of the flu are appropriate.

In your opinion.

Post by Quadibloc
I am amazed that there are people trying to sow confusion about this, and make
it more difficult for elected officials across the United States to take
appropriate actions in response to this public health emergency.

The "elected officials" are enacting edicts and pretending that they
are laws and otherwise behaving like kings. This should be bothersome
to you, but you seem to belong to the "anything to keep us safe"
school.

Post by Quadibloc
Of course you don't want a United States that has been devastated by the deaths
of a significant proportion of its populations.

The worst case scenario involves less "devastation" than happens in
the ordinary course of events. The notion that so many people will
die that there will be a shortage of workers or consumers is blatant
fearmongering.

Post by Quadibloc
One where those who are strongly
conservative and identified with support for Donald Trump will be specifically
singled out as being responsible for the tragedy, in which even the most
moderate and legitimate conservative ideas can no longer recieve a fair hearing.

No conservative idea can get a fair hearing among liberals today, or
vice versa. This is a separate phenomenon from Trump-hatred. (Funny,
you're not allowed to hate anybody except the President)

Post by Quadibloc
But what you want, and what you're going to get, from a course of action that is
mistaken, accepted without proper thought, based on lies from people advancing
their self-interest instead of the objective facts, as best we know them from
qualified scientific and medical authorities... can be expected to differ.

Mostly what we're getting is the press trying to sell newspapers and
collect web clicks.

Post by Quadibloc
I don't know what sort of insanity has overtaken the United States, and much of
the world, where what the scientific community says, first about global warming,
and now about the novel coronavirus, is not accepted as being almost as nearly
the truth as the evidence of one's own senses.

You mean the "scientific community" that told us that there was an
"energy crisis" and that we were going to run out of oil and that we
had to go to all these drastic measures to "save energy"? _That_
"scientific community"? Why should anyone trust such people? And
don't tell me "science works". There is a difference between science
and the ravings of self-promoting charlatans in lab coats.

Post by Quadibloc
But somehow pompous politicians
who clearly don't have most people's best interests at heart, have managed to
set themselves up as better authorities than the people who really know what
they're talking about.

The politicians are paid to make the call. If you don't like their
call, vote them out. Of course that would mean having the courage to
get out of your little ivory tower or bunker or wherever it is that
you hide from humanity and relocate to the place whose laws you want
to change.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.

Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why is the current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).

If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel coronavirus is.

Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.

This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to take
you seriously.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.

"Annual flu epidemics" are not under discussion. A specific pandemic
is being discussed, the one in 1968, which killed more people
worldwide and in the US than COVID-19 has killed and the actions
taking in dealing with it.

Post by Quadibloc
Why is the current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?

Because the press is telling us to panic.

Post by Quadibloc
Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).

You don't have to be elderly and frail to die from the flu--it helps
but it is neither necessary or sufficient. And we are not talking
about flu now, we are talking about H3N1 in 1968, when there was no
vaccine.

Post by Quadibloc
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel coronavirus is.

Being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems is
likely to be fatal regardless you know.

It is your assertion that "killing healthy young adults" makes it
"different". That is rather heartless of you you know, not to mention
ageist, dismissing the deaths of the elderly as being unimportant.

Post by Quadibloc
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.

No, the number is, so far, much lower than from H3N1 in 1968. Not "a
flu oubreak", a specific, documented pandemic.

Post by Quadibloc
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to take
you seriously.

What is obvious to me is that you are dodging the point. You keep
going back to "a flu oubreak" and not the 1968 H3N1 pandemic.

As for "political agendas", anyone who wants to create an underclass
of "vat girls" so he can have a hope of finding a woman desperate
enough to have sex with him shouldn't talk about "political agendas".

[Alan Baker]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people.

"Annual flu epidemics" are not under discussion. A specific pandemic
is being discussed, the one in 1968, which killed more people
worldwide and in the US than COVID-19 has killed and the actions
taking in dealing with it.

..."in more than 4 times as much time".

You and your idiot friends keep leaving that out.

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
Why is the current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine?

Because the press is telling us to panic.

And the 70,000 dead in less than 4 months?

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).

You don't have to be elderly and frail to die from the flu--it helps
but it is neither necessary or sufficient. And we are not talking
about flu now, we are talking about H3N1 in 1968, when there was no
vaccine.

And when only 1.42 times as many people died...

...in more than 4 times they time.

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel coronavirus is.

Being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems is
likely to be fatal regardless you know.

So... ...fuck 'em! Just let 'em die!

Just so long as you can get a haircut.

Post by J. Clarke
It is your assertion that "killing healthy young adults" makes it
"different". That is rather heartless of you you know, not to mention
ageist, dismissing the deaths of the elderly as being unimportant.

Post by Quadibloc
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.

No, the number is, so far, much lower than from H3N1 in 1968. Not "a
flu oubreak", a specific, documented pandemic.

1. 70,000 is not really "much lower" than 100,000.

2. Do you want to do the comparison again in just another 2 months?

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to take
you seriously.

What is obvious to me is that you are dodging the point. You keep
going back to "a flu oubreak" and not the 1968 H3N1 pandemic.

And you keep wanting to ignore that it took 18 months for the 1968 flu
to kill 100,000...

...when COVID-19 has killed 70,000 in less than a quarter of the time.

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why is the current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to take
you seriously.
John Savard

Sadly........it is you who have distorted all statistical concepts.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
When it gets to 160,000 then your argument that it is "worse" than
H3N1 will have merit.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"... and you are using statistics in a
way that justifies Mark Twain's comment.
Of course annual flu epidemics kill a lot of people. Why is the current novel
coronavirus causing a panic, whereas flu is just routine? Because of who it
kills. If you have to be elderly and frail to die from it, as is the case for
the flu, it is not a serious threat (and we have flu vaccines now).
If being elderly, or having any of a large number of health problems, is enough
to make it likely to be fatal, and plenty of healthy young adults have died as
well... that is a different matter. And that's what the novel coronavirus is.
Because we've taken extreme measures to limit its spread, yes, the death toll is
limited to a number comparable with that from a flu outbreak... when no such
extreme measures were taken.
This should be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you because of your political
agenda, that is your problem - and the problem of anyone silly enough to take
you seriously.
John Savard

You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the USA. You do not
know this for a fact. Nobody knows if the quarantining has helped at all.

Lynn

[Carl Fink]

Post by Lynn McGuire
You are assuming that the quarantine has helped in the USA. You do not
know this for a fact. Nobody knows if the quarantining has helped at all.

Yes, we do. You can't just assert obvious things out of existence because
they are inconvenient.

[Wolffan]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire

On 04 May 2020, Lynn McGuire wrote (in article

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemi
c/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the
United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United
States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It
ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age
of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It
was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be
possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and
demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths
today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly
and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to
wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the
H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the
combined total number of American fatalities during both the
Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and
encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly
forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants.
John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful
Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that
the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January
during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a
deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months
later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours
today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United
States_, killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under
1/10th of the worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The
current pandemic has killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less
than six months. Let me put this another way: in less than one
third of the time the current pandemic has killed more than
two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current rates
we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong
Flu spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t
serious _in the US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very
serious _in the US_. Are you going to guarantee that the current
pandemic will look more like 1968 than 1918? Really? Because you
want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's
terrible and dreadful, man It's terrible and dreadful, man You have
to rub up, rub up with a langawata Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto
you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you
catch something in your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you
won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million.
In fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the
USA is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu
today in the USA would be 164,000.

Over EIGHTEEN MONTHS...
...which means you're STILL a fucking ignoramus.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally
sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in
the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the
smaller countries like San Marino (number one), the countries
Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more
deaths / 1 million population than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths /
1 million population to Ireland at 267 deaths / 1 million population.
Sweden never locked down and is at 274 deaths / 1 million population
with an older population than the USA.

Wow!
Congratulations!
You're 14th...
...on a list that includes a bunch of places that probably don't HAVE a
population of a single million.
Sweden has an actual constitutional limitation on what they were allowed
to do, you fucking moron.

Post by Lynn McGuire
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I
can guess is western European and older populations. The fact that
Sweden never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not
locked down, would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

The US would be much, much worse than it is right now, you fucking moron.
You being a moron was cute when it was about global warming and your
imagined right to fuck up the planet for grandchildren you probably
don't have.
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

the truly frightening things are:

1 he thinks that killing off fellow citizens is okay

2 he is not alone
no, if only he and those who think like him were the ones affected, I’d say
‘carry on’ and get popcorn. the thing is, he’s going to take a lot of
others with him.

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire

On 04 May 2020, Lynn McGuire wrote (in article

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the
United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United
States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It
ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age
of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It
was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be
possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and
demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths
today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly
and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to
wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the
H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the
combined total number of American fatalities during both the
Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and
encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly
forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants.
John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful
Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that
the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January
during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a
deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months
later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours
today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United
States_, killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under
1/10th of the worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The
current pandemic has killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less
than six months. Let me put this another way: in less than one
third of the time the current pandemic has killed more than
two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current rates
we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong
Flu spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t
serious _in the US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very
serious _in the US_. Are you going to guarantee that the current
pandemic will look more like 1968 than 1918? Really? Because you
want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's
terrible and dreadful, man It's terrible and dreadful, man You have
to rub up, rub up with a langawata Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto
you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you
catch something in your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you
won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million.
In fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the
USA is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu
today in the USA would be 164,000.

Over EIGHTEEN MONTHS...
...which means you're STILL a fucking ignoramus.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally
sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in
the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the
smaller countries like San Marino (number one), the countries
Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more
deaths / 1 million population than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths /
1 million population to Ireland at 267 deaths / 1 million population.
Sweden never locked down and is at 274 deaths / 1 million population
with an older population than the USA.

Wow!
Congratulations!
You're 14th...
...on a list that includes a bunch of places that probably don't HAVE a
population of a single million.
Sweden has an actual constitutional limitation on what they were allowed
to do, you fucking moron.

Post by Lynn McGuire
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I
can guess is western European and older populations. The fact that
Sweden never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not
locked down, would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

The US would be much, much worse than it is right now, you fucking moron.
You being a moron was cute when it was about global warming and your
imagined right to fuck up the planet for grandchildren you probably
don't have.
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

You see like such a lovely person.

[Alan Baker]

Post by o***@gmail.com

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire

On 04 May 2020, Lynn McGuire wrote (in article

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the
United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United
States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It
ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age
of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It
was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be
possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and
demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths
today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly
and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to
wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the
H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the
combined total number of American fatalities during both the
Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and
encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly
forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants.
John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful
Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that
the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January
during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a
deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months
later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours
today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United
States_, killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under
1/10th of the worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The
current pandemic has killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less
than six months. Let me put this another way: in less than one
third of the time the current pandemic has killed more than
two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current rates
we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong
Flu spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t
serious _in the US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very
serious _in the US_. Are you going to guarantee that the current
pandemic will look more like 1968 than 1918? Really? Because you
want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's
terrible and dreadful, man It's terrible and dreadful, man You have
to rub up, rub up with a langawata Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto
you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you
catch something in your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you
won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million.
In fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the
USA is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu
today in the USA would be 164,000.

Over EIGHTEEN MONTHS...
...which means you're STILL a fucking ignoramus.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally
sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in
the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the
smaller countries like San Marino (number one), the countries
Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more
deaths / 1 million population than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths /
1 million population to Ireland at 267 deaths / 1 million population.
Sweden never locked down and is at 274 deaths / 1 million population
with an older population than the USA.

Wow!
Congratulations!
You're 14th...
...on a list that includes a bunch of places that probably don't HAVE a
population of a single million.
Sweden has an actual constitutional limitation on what they were allowed
to do, you fucking moron.

Post by Lynn McGuire
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I
can guess is western European and older populations. The fact that
Sweden never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not
locked down, would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

The US would be much, much worse than it is right now, you fucking moron.
You being a moron was cute when it was about global warming and your
imagined right to fuck up the planet for grandchildren you probably
don't have.
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

You see like such a lovely person.

Thank you. I am.

I'm just very tired of suffering fools.

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by o***@gmail.com

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lynn McGuire

On 04 May 2020, Lynn McGuire wrote (in article

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the
United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United
States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It
ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age
of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It
was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be
possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and
demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths
today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly
and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to
wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the
H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the
combined total number of American fatalities during both the
Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother
vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and
encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly
forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You
could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants.
John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful
Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that
the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January
during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a
deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months
later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours
today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the
radio in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby
Kennedy had been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United
States_, killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under
1/10th of the worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The
current pandemic has killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less
than six months. Let me put this another way: in less than one
third of the time the current pandemic has killed more than
two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current rates
we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong
Flu spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t
serious _in the US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very
serious _in the US_. Are you going to guarantee that the current
pandemic will look more like 1968 than 1918? Really? Because you
want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's a killer, whoa oh, aha It's
terrible and dreadful, man It's terrible and dreadful, man You have
to rub up, rub up with a langawata Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto
you: go right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you
catch something in your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you
won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million.
In fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the
USA is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu
today in the USA would be 164,000.

Over EIGHTEEN MONTHS...
...which means you're STILL a fucking ignoramus.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu tally
sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in
the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the
smaller countries like San Marino (number one), the countries
Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more
deaths / 1 million population than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths /
1 million population to Ireland at 267 deaths / 1 million population.
Sweden never locked down and is at 274 deaths / 1 million population
with an older population than the USA.

Wow!
Congratulations!
You're 14th...
...on a list that includes a bunch of places that probably don't HAVE a
population of a single million.
Sweden has an actual constitutional limitation on what they were allowed
to do, you fucking moron.

Post by Lynn McGuire
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I
can guess is western European and older populations. The fact that
Sweden never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not
locked down, would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?

The US would be much, much worse than it is right now, you fucking moron.
You being a moron was cute when it was about global warming and your
imagined right to fuck up the planet for grandchildren you probably
don't have.
Your idiocy about this is helping to KILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

You see like such a lovely person.

Thank you. I am.
I'm just very tired of suffering fools.

Then crawl back under your bed and STFU

[o***@gmail.com]

Businesses are being murdered (not simply dying, but murdered by political BS) nationwide.....which will lead to more deaths (quietly, individually, unspoken of by the media) than by C19.

For those just starting out, and others, that were living paycheck to paycheck, this fiasco has been disastrous. Small business, the center of our economy, is being "dictated" out of business....viz: Michigan

They are in a hole of the Government's making. They may eventually get out, but they will still be years behind where they could have been if this had just been treated as new flu variation. (note: "treated as" not "thought of as")

(refer to 100,000 flu deaths in 1968, while nobody noticed and Woodstock was happening)

The same groups of people -- today, as then -- would have been at high risk of dying and the rest would get sick, feel like shit for a couple of weeks, and then got back to work.

All of this was unnecessary, as far is the disease was concerned -- there are other, political, reasons to cause a panic: Kill the economy, and blame the
President.

When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world he, his views were shat upon hourly by the Left and the MSM. The heartless bastard wanted people to die!

For the nationwide shutdown to work - everyone needed to be afraid......
"If you or a loved one get it - it is a death sentence!" "We project over a million dead."
What a crock, but, at least for awhile, most people believed it.

Now, the truth is coming out. However, many are still scared....
"You are willing to risk people's lives for the national survival ?"

My answer -- as an 81 yr old guy, quad bypass survivor, COPD suffer, who goes dancing, fishing, hunting, hiking -- is.........

HELL YES.......AREN'T YOU ??

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by o***@gmail.com
Businesses are being murdered (not simply dying, but murdered by political BS) nationwide.....which will lead to more deaths (quietly, individually, unspoken of by the media) than by C19.
For those just starting out, and others, that were living paycheck to paycheck, this fiasco has been disastrous. Small business, the center of our economy, is being "dictated" out of business....viz: Michigan
They are in a hole of the Government's making. They may eventually get out, but they will still be years behind where they could have been if this had just been treated as new flu variation. (note: "treated as" not "thought of as")
(refer to 100,000 flu deaths in 1968, while nobody noticed and Woodstock was happening)
The same groups of people -- today, as then -- would have been at high risk of dying and the rest would get sick, feel like shit for a couple of weeks, and then got back to work.
All of this was unnecessary, as far is the disease was concerned -- there are other, political, reasons to cause a panic: Kill the economy, and blame the
President.
When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world he, his views were shat upon hourly by the Left and the MSM. The heartless bastard wanted people to die!
For the nationwide shutdown to work - everyone needed to be afraid......
"If you or a loved one get it - it is a death sentence!" "We project over a million dead."
What a crock, but, at least for awhile, most people believed it.
Now, the truth is coming out. However, many are still scared....
"You are willing to risk people's lives for the national survival ?"
My answer -- as an 81 yr old guy, quad bypass survivor, COPD suffer, who goes dancing, fishing, hunting, hiking -- is.........
HELL YES.......AREN'T YOU ??

[o***@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 3:38:59 PM UTC-5, ***@gmail.com wrote:

....a reasoned rant, by a pissed off old guy, who is watching his nation get flushed away by chicken littles.....

Just wanted to note.....

I re-reading, it sounds like a C&P.

It isn't

It is the conclusion reached by watching media from across the spectrum, being a retired (thank the FSM) public health officer, and observing that the whiners are totally fukkking up MY nation my kids, g-kids, and g-g-kids have come to enjoy, while prospering.

I wrote it......and stand by it.

[Quadibloc]

Post by o***@gmail.com
When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world

It isn't the end of the world. The 1918 flu pandemic wasn't the end of the world,
and this one isn't _quite_ as bad as that.

But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

The comparison with the 1968 flu is dishonest as well as misleading.

National survival does not have to be an issue. If the spread can be *stopped*,
it wouldn't take more than about two weeks before the country could re-open. The
problem is that as long as some places only take half-measures, the disease
keeps spreading instead.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by o***@gmail.com
When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world

It isn't the end of the world. The 1918 flu pandemic wasn't the end of the world,
and this one isn't _quite_ as bad as that.
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

And we should believe them because?

Post by Quadibloc
The comparison with the 1968 flu is dishonest as well as misleading.

So demonstrate that is is dishonest or misleading, don't just wave
your arms about and shout "is so".

Post by Quadibloc
National survival does not have to be an issue. If the spread can be *stopped*,
it wouldn't take more than about two weeks before the country could re-open.

Uh, the spread won't be "stopped" until (a) there is a vaccine or (b)
everybody has had it. The notion that you can shut everything down
for two weeks and the nasty ol' virus will just go off and leave in a
huff doesn't pass the giggle test.

Post by Quadibloc
The
problem is that as long as some places only take half-measures, the disease
keeps spreading instead.

So what would be "full measures" in your book? Set down 6 billion
posts 12 feet apart and chain someone to each one for two weeks?

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by J. Clarke
Uh, the spread won't be "stopped" until (a) there is a vaccine or (b)
everybody has had it. The notion that you can shut everything down
for two weeks and the nasty ol' virus will just go off and leave in a
huff doesn't pass the giggle test.

It's paused. Sort of. People are still falling sick...

If you could stop /everything/ for long enough, or isolate every
person perfectly from everyone else, then it would go away...
unless there's a rare case, like "Typhoid Mary", who has it
permanently. When there are millions of acases, there are
rare cases.

As for stopping it by everyone having it, "herd immunity" should
appear abd basically stop it before we get to 100%. However,
new people are born every day, and we shouldn't be certain
that after having it, you can never get it again.

Technically "a widespread endemic disease with a stable
number of infected people is not a pandemic", but I think
the infection count is not considered "stable" if it is
being contained or reduced by temporary rules for isolation.
If we go back to 2019 living then coronavirus will explode
again. If we have a new normal with more working from home
and more robots... then our society can sruvive without
having a treatment that prevents or cures Covid-19.
Provided that we also survive the robots.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

And we should believe them because?

I'm sorry, I did not understand that question.

I suppose if I take it literally, I can supply an answer of sorts.

The United States is a world leader in science and technology. Its colleges and
universities turn out qualified professionals in mathematics, science,
engineering, and medicine each year.

Despite some problems in the elementary and secondary school systems in some
areas of the U.S., which has led to some degree of reliance on immigration in
professional fields instead of socially beneficial upwards mobility within the
U.S., it is still true that the U.S. has a qualified manpower base to support
technological activities that in many cases are second to none.

So even if too many members of the general public are listening to anti-vaxxers
or conspiracy theorists or whatever, America does still seem to have a thriving
science and technology sector.

It's not like the nations science professors are out chasing flying saucers or
studying psychic phenomena or proving that astrology really works, thus making
America a laughing-stock among countries that still take science seriously. That
hasn't happened.

So this is one part of the answer: as scientists, America's scientists do still
have a good reputation for being competent scientists.

But that isn't the full answer. After all, maybe you're wondering why we should
pay attention to all this science jazz after all?

Thomas Huxley once defined science as "organized common sense". It's true that
before one can get very far in science, one has to have taken first-year
calculus, and to some people integral equations look like mystical mumbo-jumbo.

But science isn't obscurantism. Science is an honest effort to make sense of the
world around us. And, by and large, it has lived up to its goals and principles.

Science can't answer every question - life's "big questions" are mostly out of
its reach. But when it comes to the matters which are the proper domain of
science, it has had an excellent record - to which the world of technical
marvels in which we live is a strong testament.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

And we should believe them because?

I'm sorry, I did not understand that question.
I suppose if I take it literally, I can supply an answer of sorts.
The United States is a world leader in science and technology. Its colleges and
universities turn out qualified professionals in mathematics, science,
engineering, and medicine each year.
Despite some problems in the elementary and secondary school systems in some
areas of the U.S., which has led to some degree of reliance on immigration in
professional fields instead of socially beneficial upwards mobility within the
U.S., it is still true that the U.S. has a qualified manpower base to support
technological activities that in many cases are second to none.
So even if too many members of the general public are listening to anti-vaxxers
or conspiracy theorists or whatever, America does still seem to have a thriving
science and technology sector.
It's not like the nations science professors are out chasing flying saucers or
studying psychic phenomena or proving that astrology really works, thus making
America a laughing-stock among countries that still take science seriously. That
hasn't happened.
So this is one part of the answer: as scientists, America's scientists do still
have a good reputation for being competent scientists.
But that isn't the full answer. After all, maybe you're wondering why we should
pay attention to all this science jazz after all?
Thomas Huxley once defined science as "organized common sense". It's true that
before one can get very far in science, one has to have taken first-year
calculus, and to some people integral equations look like mystical mumbo-jumbo.
But science isn't obscurantism. Science is an honest effort to make sense of the
world around us. And, by and large, it has lived up to its goals and principles.
Science can't answer every question - life's "big questions" are mostly out of
its reach. But when it comes to the matters which are the proper domain of
science, it has had an excellent record - to which the world of technical
marvels in which we live is a strong testament.

It's clear that you do not understand the question. The press or the
politicians tell us that Joe Schmoe is a "scientist" and we should
believe him. They don't tell us why we should believe him, what
outstanding track record he has or what amazing discoveries he has
made, just that he's a "scientist" and so we should believe him.

Why should we believe the "scientists" that the press and the
politicians put before us? What reason do we have to believe that
they are actually competent at what they do?

I remember discussions on IMDB of "Interstellar" in which numerous
people accepted Niell DeGrasse Tyson as the world's expert on black
holes because the press keeps trotting him out. Any time anyone
mentioned Kip Thorne he was dismissed because he wasn't a public
figure that "everybody knew" was a "great scientist".

I also remember the panic over the "energy crisis" in the early '70s,
and the manufactured panic over a supposed "oil shortage" that led to
panic buying and inane government actions when all they had to do was
take the leash off the oil companies--now, nearly half a century
later, when all the oil, according to the "respected scientists" that
the press and politicians kept parading before us, has been used up
and we are freezing to death in the dark, the oil companies are going
broke because they have more oil than they can sell. So much for the
brilliance of that crop of "experts".

The "experts" have been crying wolf for all of my life and no wolf has
appeared. So why should I trust these ones?

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

And we should believe them because?

I'm sorry, I did not understand that question.

[ snip sermon ]

Obviously

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by o***@gmail.com
When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world

It isn't the end of the world. The 1918 flu pandemic wasn't the end of the world,
and this one isn't _quite_ as bad as that.
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.

And we should believe them because?

Post by Quadibloc
The comparison with the 1968 flu is dishonest as well as misleading.

So demonstrate that is is dishonest or misleading, don't just wave
your arms about and shout "is so".

Post by Quadibloc
National survival does not have to be an issue. If the spread can be *stopped*,
it wouldn't take more than about two weeks before the country could re-open.

Uh, the spread won't be "stopped" until (a) there is a vaccine or (b)
everybody has had it. The notion that you can shut everything down
for two weeks and the nasty ol' virus will just go off and leave in a
huff doesn't pass the giggle test.

Post by Quadibloc
The
problem is that as long as some places only take half-measures, the disease
keeps spreading instead.

So what would be "full measures" in your book? Set down 6 billion
posts 12 feet apart and chain someone to each one for two weeks?

Careful there, you are getting Quaddie excited about chained women.

Lynn

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by o***@gmail.com
When Trump tried to say that it wasn't the end of the world

It isn't the end of the world. The 1918 flu pandemic wasn't the end of the world,
and this one isn't _quite_ as bad as that.
But it is very serious, and Trump doesn't seem to realize that. This isn't
"political BS". This is what responsible scientific and medical authorities are
saying.
The comparison with the 1968 flu is dishonest as well as misleading.
National survival does not have to be an issue.

Yes it does.......it is THE issue.

Post by Quadibloc
If the spread can be *stopped*,
it wouldn't take more than about two weeks before the country could re-open.

Well.......DUH.......

Post by Quadibloc
The
problem is that as long as some places only take half-measures, the disease
keeps spreading instead.

Without details (....those pesky details....) that statement means nothing.

[Quadibloc]

Post by o***@gmail.com
Then crawl back under your bed and STFU

Excuse me. Killing people right now is *exactly* what the vicious deliberate lies
about the coronavirus pandemic from the "American Institute of Economic Research"
is doing.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by o***@gmail.com
Then crawl back under your bed and STFU

Excuse me. Killing people right now is *exactly* what the vicious deliberate lies
about the coronavirus pandemic from the "American Institute of Economic Research"
is doing.

Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.

But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.

And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

You think I don't?

Unfortunately, he chose to run for the office of President of the United States,
and as a result, his decisions often have a great influence on major public
issues.

I will admit that some of the media may have been jumping to conclusions about
his early dismissals of the coronavirus as something like the flu. That could
have been an honest mistake.

Yes, there were news articles pointing out that historically, good numbers on
the economy make it hard for a President not to be re-elected.

Yes, shutting stuff down to prevent the spread of a virus is bad for the
economy.

While some of what Donald Trump is up to _now_ is inexcusable, though, I have to
admit that thre really isn't enough evidence to claim that Trump's early claims
that the coronavirus was similar to the flu - some real medical doctors were
saying as much in the very early days before we knew better - was part of a
cold-blooded deliberate plan to condemn millions of Americans to death (after
November, though) so that he could be re-elected. That may be what the editorial
board of the Washington Post believes, but I will agree with you that there's no
real evidence to justify that conclusion.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

You think I don't?

You're the one who brought him up so obviously you don't.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

Quaddie has TDS real bad. Real, real bad.

And he lives in Canada which is a real mystery to me why he cares. Did
Trump bomb Canada or something that I missed ?

Lynn

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:32:15 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

Quaddie has TDS real bad. Real, real bad.
And he lives in Canada which is a real mystery to me why he cares. Did
Trump bomb Canada or something that I missed ?

It is truly weird how important foreign politics is to him when he
seems to have no intention of every actually crossing the border.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by J. Clarke
It is truly weird how important foreign politics is to him when he
seems to have no intention of every actually crossing the border.

And he might not be able to at this point. Meg's boss the lawyer
has her son living with her at present. He is employed by a game
company (ISTR) in Quebec City. He came back to the States in
February to visit family and to attend DunDraCon, and when he
wanted to go back to Canada the border police wouldn't let him.

Fortunately, he's having no problems working remotely in his
mum's back bedroom.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html

Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

Lynn

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:41:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

That's true, but that's something he had been trying to do from the
day he got elected.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:41:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

That's true, but that's something he had been trying to do from the
day he got elected.

I am with him. I have sold one license to my software in China. But I
have over a thousand users there.

China has been taking advantage of the USA for a long time, going back
to the 1940s.

Lynn

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:53:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:41:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

That's true, but that's something he had been trying to do from the
day he got elected.

I am with him. I have sold one license to my software in China. But I
have over a thousand users there.
China has been taking advantage of the USA for a long time, going back
to the 1940s.

And Elon Musk is the latest sucker--the idiot is going to teach them
how to make Teslas and then be surprised when there are 500 factories
popping up making fourth-rate Tesla clones and not paying him one cent
of royalties. Of course, being Elon Musk, he does have a delivery
system, now all he needs is the warheads . . .

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:53:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:41:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

That's true, but that's something he had been trying to do from the
day he got elected.

I am with him. I have sold one license to my software in China. But I
have over a thousand users there.
China has been taking advantage of the USA for a long time, going back
to the 1940s.

And Elon Musk is the latest sucker--the idiot is going to teach them
how to make Teslas and then be surprised when there are 500 factories
popping up making fourth-rate Tesla clones and not paying him one cent
of royalties. Of course, being Elon Musk, he does have a delivery
system, now all he needs is the warheads . . .

....heh,heh,heh.....

ELON 2024

MAGA

(those that are humor impaired may ignore)

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by o***@gmail.com

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:53:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 5 May 2020 18:41:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day. Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"? I think you need to do a bit more research. The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor? The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual. You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan. He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing. Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then. Wow ! And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

That's true, but that's something he had been trying to do from the
day he got elected.

I am with him. I have sold one license to my software in China. But I
have over a thousand users there.
China has been taking advantage of the USA for a long time, going back
to the 1940s.

And Elon Musk is the latest sucker--the idiot is going to teach them
how to make Teslas and then be surprised when there are 500 factories
popping up making fourth-rate Tesla clones and not paying him one cent
of royalties. Of course, being Elon Musk, he does have a delivery
system, now all he needs is the warheads . . .

....heh,heh,heh.....
ELON 2024
MAGA
(those that are humor impaired may ignore)

Can't happen. Elon Musk was born in South Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Lynn

[Chrysi Cat]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day.  Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"?  I think you need to do a bit more research.  The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor?  The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual.  You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan.  He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing.  Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then.  Wow !  And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/
Lynn

The key words here are "non-US-citizen". He actually ran _repatriation_
flights after that that unquestionably imported more infected Americans,
and they /weren't/ rushed to hotels for strict quarantine for the next
three weeks; they were allowed to go home and live their lives.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day.  Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"?  I think you need to do a bit more research.  The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor?  The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual.  You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan.  He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing.  Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan
1 until then.  Wow !  And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/
Lynn

The key words here are "non-US-citizen". He actually ran _repatriation_
flights after that that unquestionably imported more infected Americans,
and they /weren't/ rushed to hotels for strict quarantine for the next
three weeks; they were allowed to go home and live their lives.

Bingo.

AND he didn't stop people coming in from Europe...

...even when he WAS stopping people coming in from Iran.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day.  Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"?  I think you need to do a bit more research.  The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor?  The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual.  You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan.  He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing.  Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan
1 until then.  Wow !  And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/
Lynn

The key words here are "non-US-citizen". He actually ran _repatriation_
flights after that that unquestionably imported more infected Americans,
and they /weren't/ rushed to hotels for strict quarantine for the next
three weeks; they were allowed to go home and live their lives.

All of the countries are running repatriation flights. My
sister-in-law's Italian exchange student went back to Italy on an
Italian government charter flight at the end of March.

Infected Americans are still Americans. I thought that the obviously
sick ones went to March AFB. Nope, everybody went into 2 week quarantine:

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/americans-fleeing-coronavirus-to-be-released-after-14-day-quarantine-at-march-air-reserve-base/

Lynn

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day.  Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"?  I think you need to do a bit more research.  The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor?  The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual.  You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan.  He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing.  Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then.  Wow !  And I wonder how many of them were infected ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/
Lynn

The key words here are "non-US-citizen". He actually ran _repatriation_
flights after that that unquestionably imported more infected Americans,
and they /weren't/ rushed to hotels for strict quarantine for the next
three weeks; they were allowed to go home and live their lives.

Being U.S. citizens, they had a reasonable expectation
to be allowed back in.

I think the cruise passengers, who nearly weren't allowed
back in because they would make the infection statistics
worse, were bussed to a shopping mall to make their own
way from there. Or at least that's nearly what ensued.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Chrysi Cat

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Why are the lives of these people so much more important than the
lives of the 2,500,000 who die every year in the US?

Why were the lives of the 2,000 people who died in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001 so important?

It wasn't the lives so much as the attack.

Post by Quadibloc
Because they were deliberately murdered by someone, and those responsible for
those murders were likely to go around killing more people unless they were
stopped.

Actually those responsible were all dead by the end of the day.  Those
that put them up to it on the other hand, some of them are likely
still out there.

Post by Quadibloc
While I would not be displeased if the United States were to do more, say, to
improve safety on its roads... the current coronavirus epidemic is urgent.

Unless is isn't.

Post by Quadibloc
Not because the people who die from it are more important than other people who
die from other things.
But because of *how many people would die* if its spread is not checked.
Already, a lot of people have died... _when hardly anyone has been infected_.
The death toll if nothing is done to check its spread hardly bears thinking
about.

"Hardly anyone"?  I think you need to do a bit more research.  The
"number of cases" has little to do with the number of infected.

Post by Quadibloc
I mean, there is good news. The country would still survive. Most healthy young
adults would be alive afterwards. (If nothing is done to check the spread, of
course, some will have been exposed to high virus loads, enough to kill even
healthy young people).

What leads you to believe that being exposed to "high virus loads" is
the deciding factor?  The evidence seems to be that young people who
die of it pretty much kill themselves, it's not a case of the immune
system being overwhelmed, it's a case of the immune system going after
the wrong thing.

Post by Quadibloc
But very few families would be unscathed - and _since_ the horror could have
been prevented, the country's mood would turn ugly.

The country's mood is already turning ugly.

Post by Quadibloc
We don't need that. This didn't have to be about politics, but Trump _chose_ to
make it about politics by standing in the way of sound policies based on the
best scientific knowledge.

No, he stood in the door with his finger up his ass, as usual.  You
seem to think that he has some kind of plan.  He's not that smart.
And I really wish that it was possible to have a conversation on any
topic without Trump being brought into it.

I disagree on Trump doing nothing.  Trump blocked non-USA citizens on
flights from China on Jan 31, effective Feb 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html
Prior to that, 400,000 people traveled from China to the USA from Jan 1
until then.  Wow !  And I wonder how many of them were infected ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/trumps-claim-that-he-imposed-first-china-ban/

Post by Chrysi Cat

Lynn

The key words here are "non-US-citizen". He actually ran _repatriation_
flights after that that unquestionably imported more infected Americans,
and they /weren't/ rushed to hotels for strict quarantine for the next
three weeks; they were allowed to go home and live their lives.

Being U.S. citizens, they had a reasonable expectation
to be allowed back in.
I think the cruise passengers, who nearly weren't allowed
back in because they would make the infection statistics
worse, were bussed to a shopping mall to make their own
way from there. Or at least that's nearly what ensued.

The ones that docked at San Francisco were transported to
Travis AFB, and held for the appropriate number of weeks. I
don't know what was done with those who docked elsewhere.

[o***@gmail.com]

Trump _chose_ to make it about politics by standing in the way of sound
policies based on the best scientific knowledge.

Specific, documented incidents, please (not just "reports")

thanx

[Wolffan]

Post by Wolffan

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic
/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United States_,
killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under 1/10th of the
worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The current pandemic has
killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less than six months. Let me put
this another way: in less than one third of the time the current pandemic has
killed more than two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current
rates we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong Flu
spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t serious _in the
US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very serious _in the US_. Are
you going to guarantee that the current pandemic will look more like 1968
than 1918? Really? Because you want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's terrible and dreadful, man
It's terrible and dreadful, man
You have to rub up, rub up with a langawata
Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto you: go
right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you catch something in
your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million. In
fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the USA
is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu today
in the USA would be 164,000.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is number
one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the little arrows
next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in the list at 209
deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the smaller countries like
San Marino (number one), the countries Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK,
France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more deaths / 1 million population
than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths / 1 million population to Ireland
at 267 deaths / 1 million population. Sweden never locked down and is
at 274 deaths / 1 million population with an older population than the USA.
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I can
guess is western European and older populations. The fact that Sweden
never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not locked down,
would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?
Lynn

words fail me.

you should not be allowed out without a keeper.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Wolffan

Post by Wolffan

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic
/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United States_,
killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under 1/10th of the
worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The current pandemic has
killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less than six months. Let me put
this another way: in less than one third of the time the current pandemic has
killed more than two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current
rates we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong Flu
spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t serious _in the
US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very serious _in the US_. Are
you going to guarantee that the current pandemic will look more like 1968
than 1918? Really? Because you want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's terrible and dreadful, man
It's terrible and dreadful, man
You have to rub up, rub up with a langawata
Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto you: go
right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you catch something in
your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million. In
fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the USA
is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu today
in the USA would be 164,000.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is number
one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the little arrows
next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in the list at 209
deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the smaller countries like
San Marino (number one), the countries Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK,
France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more deaths / 1 million population
than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths / 1 million population to Ireland
at 267 deaths / 1 million population. Sweden never locked down and is
at 274 deaths / 1 million population with an older population than the USA.
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I can
guess is western European and older populations. The fact that Sweden
never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not locked down,
would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?
Lynn

words fail me.
you should not be allowed out without a keeper.

Have a good life.

Goodbye.

Lynn

[Alan Baker]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Wolffan

Post by Wolffan

Post by Lynn McGuire
OT: "Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic"
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic
/
"In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United
States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving
December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000
people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide."
"Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today.
Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was
also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to
extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we
might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So
in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not
more so, though we shall have to wait to see."
"“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2
pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total
number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
"And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age."
"I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely
remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom
and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?"
"Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could
go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a
friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact,
people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of
August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death –
actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked
globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus
which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going
demographic."
Interesting. The only thing that I remember from 1968 is when the radio
in Mom's VW Bus broke into a song and announced that Bobby Kennedy had
been shot in California and sadly died later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy
Lynn

Lynn, m’man...
1 Hong Kong Flu was a relatively mild pandemic _in the United States_,
killing only a bit less than 100,000 (!) in the US, under 1/10th of the
worldwide total, and it took 18 months to do it. The current pandemic has
killed just short of 70,000 in the US in less than six months. Let me put
this another way: in less than one third of the time the current
pandemic
has
killed more than two-thirds of the total of the 1968 outbreak. At current
rates we’re looking at having death tolls in the US of more than double
those of 1968.
2 this is the _first wave_ of covid-19. One reason why Hong Kong Flu
spluttered out _in the US_ was that the second wave wasn’t serious _in the
US_; the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was very serious _in the US_. Are
you going to guarantee that the current pandemic will look more like 1968
than 1918? Really? Because you want to _go to the movies_?!
3 I remember the song ‘Hong Kong Flu’ getting lots of airplay.
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/ethiopians-hong-kong-flu
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's a killer, whoa oh, aha
It's terrible and dreadful, man
It's terrible and dreadful, man
You have to rub up, rub up with a langawata
Rub up, rub up with a langawata
It’s possible that agood ol’ boy from Texas isn’t a fan of reggae
music...
4 if you want to wander the globe, or even just Texas, I say onto you: go
right ahead, boyo. Just don’t come near _me_. And if you catch
something
in
your travels, don’t expect sympathy, for you won’t get any.

You do know that the population of the USA in 1968 was 200 million. In
fact, I quoted that from the article. The population today of the USA
is 328 million. The equivalent death rate from the Hong Kong Flu today
in the USA would be 164,000.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is number
one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the little arrows
next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14 in the list at 209
deaths / 1 million population. Discounting the smaller countries like
San Marino (number one), the countries Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK,
France, Sweden, and Ireland all have more deaths / 1 million population
than the USA. Belgium is 684 deaths / 1 million population to Ireland
at 267 deaths / 1 million population. Sweden never locked down and is
at 274 deaths / 1 million population with an older population than the USA.
What do these countries all have in common ? The only thing that I can
guess is western European and older populations. The fact that Sweden
never locked down is very interesting. If the USA had not locked down,
would the USA be at the same stats that it is now ?
Lynn

words fail me.
you should not be allowed out without a keeper.

Have a good life.
Goodbye.
Lynn

You have full-blown asshole.

[Titus G]

snip

Earlier this month, this group appeared to conclude that population
density was the major factor in spread and consequent death from
Covid-19. If this was the case with the Hong Kong 'Flu, then the hippie
movement wouldn't have lasted so long. OK, for the serious people, the
population density at Woodstock would have exceeded that of Manhattan on
a fine day resulting in many deaths but this was obviously not the case.
Last night after tea I ate an apple. It tasted nothing like something
different.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu
tally sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14
in the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population.

Reported deaths from the USA have already been found to be deliberately
initially ignored and later understated and still so. I see that New
York is reported as having at least over 1200 deaths per million but
Wyoming and a couple of others only 12.
Ignoring any other factors and admitting a foreigner's geography deficit
whilst using DimMcWire logic, obviously the pandemic policies of the
country that Wyoming is in are far superior to the policies of the
country that New York is in.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Titus G
snip
Earlier this month, this group appeared to conclude that population
density was the major factor in spread and consequent death from
Covid-19. If this was the case with the Hong Kong 'Flu, then the hippie
movement wouldn't have lasted so long. OK, for the serious people, the
population density at Woodstock would have exceeded that of Manhattan on
a fine day resulting in many deaths but this was obviously not the case.
Last night after tea I ate an apple. It tasted nothing like something
different.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu
tally sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14
in the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population.

Reported deaths from the USA have already been found to be deliberately
initially ignored and later understated and still so. I see that New
York is reported as having at least over 1200 deaths per million but
Wyoming and a couple of others only 12.
Ignoring any other factors and admitting a foreigner's geography deficit
whilst using DimMcWire logic, obviously the pandemic policies of the
country that Wyoming is in are far superior to the policies of the
country that New York is in.

Wyoming is mostly open space. And cattle.

Hard for anything to spread when people are so spread out.

But, give it time. At one time, there was only /one/ death from
Covid-19 in Washington State. Now, there have been many more.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Paul S Person
Wyoming is mostly open space. And cattle.

Where half the population lives in one municipal area or another. Tragically
for Wyoming, land doesn't catch c19, humans do, and humans tend to clump.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Paul S Person
Wyoming is mostly open space. And cattle.

Where half the population lives in one municipal area or another. Tragically
for Wyoming, land doesn't catch c19, humans do, and humans tend to clump.

There you go, bringing facts and reality into a political discussion.
*Hrmph*

[Titus G]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Titus G
snip
Earlier this month, this group appeared to conclude that population
density was the major factor in spread and consequent death from
Covid-19. If this was the case with the Hong Kong 'Flu, then the hippie
movement wouldn't have lasted so long. OK, for the serious people, the
population density at Woodstock would have exceeded that of Manhattan on
a fine day resulting in many deaths but this was obviously not the case.
Last night after tea I ate an apple. It tasted nothing like something
different.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I have noted an interesting fact on the Worldmeters Chinese Flu
tally sheet: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you change the order from from “Total Cases” where the USA is
number one to “Deaths / 1M population” descending (click on the
little arrows next to the column header, the USA becomes number 14
in the list at 209 deaths / 1 million population.

Reported deaths from the USA have already been found to be deliberately
initially ignored and later understated and still so. I see that New
York is reported as having at least over 1200 deaths per million but
Wyoming and a couple of others only 12.
Ignoring any other factors and admitting a foreigner's geography deficit
whilst using DimMcWire logic, obviously the pandemic policies of the
country that Wyoming is in are far superior to the policies of the
country that New York is in.

Wyoming is mostly open space. And cattle.

"Ignoring any other factors" "using DimMcWire logic"

Post by Paul S Person
Hard for anything to spread when people are so spread out.

"Ignoring any other factors" "using DimMcWire logic"

[a***@yahoo.com]

That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father would have a radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy assassination the next morning. They closed all the schools ( we lived in Massachusetts then. I was 8)

[Quadibloc]

Post by a***@yahoo.com
That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father would have a

radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy
assassination the next morning.

Oh, you mean the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.

The Kennedy assassination took place five years earlier, on November 22, 1963.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com
That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father would have a

radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy
assassination the next morning.
Oh, you mean the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.
The Kennedy assassination took place five years earlier, on November 22, 1963.

A Kennedy assassination took place 5 years earlier. He is talking
about a different Kennedy assassination from that one. And given your
insistence on making assertions about generic flu outbreaks in a
discussion of the 1968 H3N1 outbreak, you shouldn't be upset when
someone refers to one of the several Kennedy assassinations as "the
Kennedy assassination".

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
you shouldn't be upset

I wasn't upset. I was just giving a notification that I experienced a delay in
parsing input due to an error condition that required backtracking.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com
That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father

would have a

Post by a***@yahoo.com
radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy
assassination the next morning.
Oh, you mean the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.
The Kennedy assassination took place five years earlier, on November 22, 1963.

A Kennedy assassination took place 5 years earlier. He is talking
about a different Kennedy assassination from that one. And given your
insistence on making assertions about generic flu outbreaks in a
discussion of the 1968 H3N1 outbreak, you shouldn't be upset when
someone refers to one of the several Kennedy assassinations as "the
Kennedy assassination".

Without mentioning a date, at least a year, to provide context.

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com
That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father

would have a

Post by a***@yahoo.com
radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy
assassination the next morning.
Oh, you mean the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.
The Kennedy assassination took place five years earlier, on November 22, 1963.

A Kennedy assassination took place 5 years earlier. He is talking
about a different Kennedy assassination from that one. And given your
insistence on making assertions about generic flu outbreaks in a
discussion of the 1968 H3N1 outbreak, you shouldn't be upset when
someone refers to one of the several Kennedy assassinations as "the
Kennedy assassination".

Without mentioning a date, at least a year, to provide context.

It was SAID to be '68.

Did you read the post...or just the cliff notes ?

[o***@gmail.com]

Post by a***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@yahoo.com
That's also one of the few things I remember from 1968. My father would have a

radio that he would play while shaving and we heard about the Kennedy
assassination the next morning.
Oh, you mean the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.

uh....yeah.......he probably counts as a Kennedy