What apps do you typically add to your Android/iOS mobile device?

[Danny D.]

In another thread, it was opined there was no such animal as a
"Typical" Smartphone/Mobile Device User

So, still trying to resolve how much "internal memory" is needed
for the purchase of Android/iOS mobile devices to be used as gifts,
if I try to answer the question of:
"What apps do YOU typically wish to add?"
I can then add up the sizes, to determine how much memory is needed
for a typical gift.

To start this off, I'll list below the apps I've added to "my"
mobile device, and I ask you to add whatever I've missed below:

A backup app (e.g., Helium)
A barcode scanner (e.g., Barcode Scanner)
A car finder (e.g., Find My Car)
A checking-account manager (e.g., Mint)
A dashcam recorder (e.g., DashCam)
A document markup app (e.g., Skitch)
A document scanner/pdf/ocr app (e.g., CamScanner)
A drawing app (e.g., Paper Artist)
A file navigator (e.g., ES File Explorer)
A fitness calorie counter (e.g., MyFitnessPal)
A flashlight app (e.g., TeslaLED)
A gas station price finder app (e.g., GasBuddy)
A grocery list app (e.g., Out of Milk)
A level app (e.g., Power Bubble Spirit Level)
A memo program (e.g., Inkpad)
A memory manager (e.g., 1TapBoost)
An alternative keyboard (e.g., Swype)
An anonymity browser (e.g., Orbot)
An anonymity search engine (e.g., DuckDuckGo)
An anti-virus scanner (e.g., Avast!)
An app killer/task manager (e.g., TasKiller Free)
An app manager (e.g., Clean Master)
An automatic call recorder (e.g., Automatic Call Recorder)
An Excel viewer (e.g., Excel)
An FM radio app (e.g., TuneIn Radio)
An history eraser (e.g., History Eraser)
An installer hierarchy (e.g., FDroid)
An Internet app to remotely control your PC (e.g., TeamViewer)
An offline backcountry mapping/tracking (e.g., My Tracks)
An offline document browser (e.g., Pocket)
An offline language translator (e.g., Google Translate)
An offline map when cell signal is dodgy (e.g., Navigator)
A PDF reader (e.g., Adobe Reader)
A photo editor (e.g., Pixir Express)
A power minder (e.g., Battery Doctor)
A PowerPoint viewer (e.g., PowerPoint)
A screen recorder (e.g., ScreeenREC)
A social-networking app (e.g., LinkedIn)
A speech-to text stenographer (e.g., Speech To Text)
A streaming music app (e.g., Songza)
A task manager app (e.g., "Tasks")
A terminal emulator (e.g., Terminal Emulator)
A VOIP app (e.g., Viber)
A weather app (e.g., The Weather Channel)
A WiFi discovery app (e.g., InSSIDer)
A Word viewer (e.g., Word)
A hands-free voice-controller app (e.g., Dragon Mobile Assistant)
A caller-id white-pages lookup app (e.g., Current Caller ID)
etc

But, the question is:
Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device?

[TJ]

On 04/08/2014 01:06 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> In another thread, it was opined there was no such animal as a
> "Typical" Smartphone/Mobile Device User
>
> So, still trying to resolve how much "internal memory" is needed
> for the purchase of Android/iOS mobile devices to be used as gifts,
> if I try to answer the question of:
> "What apps do YOU typically wish to add?"
> I can then add up the sizes, to determine how much memory is needed
> for a typical gift.
>
You already know enough from painful experience. You already know that
the more internal storage the better, and that the higher the stated
capacity the higher the "true" user-available capacity as well. Therefore:

1. If you don't like the receiver, give 'em a 4GB phone. Doesn't matter
what brand - none of them will have much user-available space. The
frustration alone will make your feelings known.

2. If you don't care one way or the other, get a cheap 8GB phone. It may
not have the greatest display, or run very fast, but at least the
recipient will be able to install a fair number of apps.

3. If you like the person just OK, get a better-quality 8GB phone. The
recipient will be able to install apps, and they should run well. They
won't think any the less of you than they already do.

4. If you really like the person, get a 16GB phone of moderate quality.
They'll appreciate receiving a non-frustrating, functional workhorse.

5. If you want to show off, buy the most expensive phone you can find.
It won't be worth it, but you'll make an impression.

See how easy that was?

TJ

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:30:59 -0400, TJ wrote:

> See how easy that was?

Actually, I will do (and have done) the following:

For the nearly useless LG Optimus F3:
a) I love the recipient, so I care that they get a decent phone!
b) I already paid T-Mobile the extra $160 for the 16GB Nexus 5.
c) That phone should have about 11 to 12 GB of available FLASH ROM.
d) When the Nexus 5 arrives, we'll send the F3 back to T-Mobile.

For the nearly useless LG Optimus L9:
a) I love the recipient, so I care that they get a decent phone!
b) T-Mobile won't exchange the phone for anything more than $15.
c) So, I will root the LG Optimus L9
d) If possible, I will replace the ROM with Cyanogenmod.
e) Then, I will give it to the recipient, hopefully with more memory.

Here is the guide I think I will follow:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36351786

[TJ]

On 04/08/2014 08:44 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> For the nearly useless LG Optimus L9:
> a) I love the recipient, so I care that they get a decent phone!
> b) T-Mobile won't exchange the phone for anything more than $15.
> c) So, I will root the LG Optimus L9
> d) If possible, I will replace the ROM with Cyanogenmod.
> e) Then, I will give it to the recipient, hopefully with more memory.
>
Postulating that the recipient is your average clueless novice, if a)
then I would forget e), keep the phone myself for low-impact apps, and
buy the recipient a better phone. I wouldn't take the chance of further
frustrating the recipient.

Sometimes it's best to know when to cut your losses and move on.

TJ

[Lewis]

In message <li254t$28q$***@speranza.aioe.org>
Danny D. <***@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:30:59 -0400, TJ wrote:

>> See how easy that was?

> Actually, I will do (and have done) the following:

> For the nearly useless LG Optimus F3:
> a) I love the recipient, so I care that they get a decent phone!
> b) I already paid T-Mobile the extra $160 for the 16GB Nexus 5.
> c) That phone should have about 11 to 12 GB of available FLASH ROM.

First of all, I think Androids average around 10-10.5GB free on a 16 GB
model. an iPhone will have about 12.5GB free.

Second of all, it's not ROM. That would be rather useless.

--
I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:04:32 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> First of all, I think Androids average around 10-10.5GB free
> on a 16 GB model. an iPhone will have about 12.5GB free.

Your observation of 6GB lost on *some* Android phones is true.

Witness this article, for example:
16GB Samsung Galaxy S5 actually offers 10.7GB of usable storage
http://www.phonearena.com/news/16GB-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-actually-offers-10.7GB-of-usable-storage_id53383

However, in "my" personal experience, the phones that I have
set up each lost "only" about 4GB of the claimed memory:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/13776014483_c3e10a2362_b.jpg

Here is a rough summary of "my" phones:
- $600 12GB Samsung Galaxy SIII personal phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)
- $200 0GB LG Optimus F3 gift phone (claimed 4GB, actual 0GB)
- $200 0GB LG Optimus L9 gift phone (claimed 4GB, actual 0GB)
- $200 12GB Moto-G gift phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)
- $400 12GB Nexus 5 gift phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)

I've detailed additional app-storage needs of roughly 2GB:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/13887552563_e505818cf3_h.jpg

In the future, I would admonish prospective Android users to
*assume* they will easily lose 6GB of the claimed memory, in the
very first week of setup, with some losing as much as 8GB as
noted in the unusually wasteful case of the Samsung Galaxy S5.

[TJ]

On 04/16/2014 11:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:

> In the future, I would admonish prospective Android users to
> *assume* they will easily lose 6GB of the claimed memory, in the
> very first week of setup, with some losing as much as 8GB as
> noted in the unusually wasteful case of the Samsung Galaxy S5.
>
Sigh. You haven't "lost" so much as a byte. The storage is there. It's
just that like any computer, a portion is necessarily reserved for OS use.

A less inflammatory, more accurate statement would be "I would advise
prospective Android users to assume that 4-6GB of the claimed memory
will be reserved by the OS and pre-installed apps, and unavailable to
the user."

TJ

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:56:01 -0400, TJ wrote:

> A less inflammatory, more accurate statement would be "I would advise
> prospective Android users to assume that 4-6GB of the claimed memory
> will be reserved by the OS and pre-installed apps, and unavailable to
> the user."

I don't disagree.

Nothing wrong with saying that about 4GB will be reserved
for pre-installed "stuff".

So, if the phone starts with 4GB, you'll get almost no room
for your apps.

And, the SD card won't help, no matter how big it is.

[M.L.]

>> A less inflammatory, more accurate statement would be "I would advise
>> prospective Android users to assume that 4-6GB of the claimed memory
>> will be reserved by the OS and pre-installed apps, and unavailable to
>> the user."
>
>I don't disagree.
>
>Nothing wrong with saying that about 4GB will be reserved
>for pre-installed "stuff".
>
>So, if the phone starts with 4GB, you'll get almost no room
>for your apps.
>
>And, the SD card won't help, no matter how big it is.

Rooting the phone would obviate the shortcomings you're concerned
about by allowing app access to the external SD card.

[Lewis]

In message <lim6qp$8kh$***@speranza.aioe.org>
Danny D. <***@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:04:32 +0000, Lewis wrote:

>> First of all, I think Androids average around 10-10.5GB free
>> on a 16 GB model. an iPhone will have about 12.5GB free.

> Your observation of 6GB lost on *some* Android phones is true.

> Witness this article, for example:
> 16GB Samsung Galaxy S5 actually offers 10.7GB of usable storage
> http://www.phonearena.com/news/16GB-Samsung-Galaxy-S5-actually-offers-10.7GB-of-usable-storage_id53383

Which is a increase from the SIII and S4.


> However, in "my" personal experience, the phones that I have
> set up each lost "only" about 4GB of the claimed memory:

The Nexus should be bare android with no carrier or manufactuer shit, so
that makes sense.

> - $600 12GB Samsung Galaxy SIII personal phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)

That seems high. A friend of mine had an SIII and it had 8.9GB
available. Or maybe it was 9.8, but I really think it was 8.9. The S4
was about the same for him, but I don't remember what network he was on.
He's on T-mo now, and he rooted his phone and put a base android on it,
so I can't double check.

> - $200 12GB Moto-G gift phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)
> - $400 12GB Nexus 5 gift phone (claimed 16GB, actual 12GB)

These make sense, they should be plain vanilla android.

--
"Here comes sunrise. Yeah, here's your sunrise. I used to hide from the
sun, tried to live my whole life underground, why'd you have to rise and
ruin all my fun? Just turn over; close the curtains on the day."

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:30:59 -0400, TJ wrote:

> 3. If you like the person just OK, get a better-quality 8GB phone.
> 4. If you really like the person, get a 16GB phone of moderate quality.

The supposedly 16GB Google Nexus 5 replacement has arrived,
so, my LG Optimus F3 gift recipient will send back their almost
unusable phone and start using what turns out to be a 12.28GB
Android 4.4.2 phone, out of the box.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/13754583623_cd5359ed83.jpg

I'm still doing my homework on how to "fix" (what I consider)
the similarly nearly useless LG Optimus L9 gift, which I hadn't
bought directly from T-Mobile.

The "visible" bloatware (based on icons) doesn't seem too bad:
- Calculator
- Calendar
- Camera
- Chrome
- Clock
- Downloads
- Drive
- Email
- Gallery
- Gmail
- Google
- Google Settings
- Google+
- Hangouts
- Keep
- Maps (Google)
- News & Weather
- People
- Phone
- Photos
- Play Books
- Play Games
- Play Magazines
- Play Movies
- Play Music
- Play Store
- Quickoffice
- Settings
- Wallet
- YouTube

[Danny DiAmico]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 01:19:46 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:

> The "visible" bloatware (based on icons) doesn't seem too bad:

I should clarify that this "visible bloatware" was compiled
from the "apps" menu.

Here is what the settings reports is on the brand new
out-of-the-box 12.28GB T-Mobile Google Nexus 5 (Android 4.4.2):

Google Search 23.42MB
Google Play services 16.68MB
Wallet 16.41MB
Android System 14.91MB
Settings 12.36MB)
Quickoffice 9.81MB)
Google Play Store 9.50MB
Google+ 7.92MB
Maps 6.81MB
Google Dialer 6.30MB
Google Account Manager 6.19MB
Google Play Magazines 5.86MB
Cloud Print 5.77MB
Drive 5.61MB
YouTube 5.22MB
Hangouts 4.97MB
Google Play Books 4.84MB
Email 4.48MB
Google Play Music 4.26MB
Google Services Framework 4.24MB
Google Play Movies & TV 3.93MB
Contacts 3.85MB
Gmail 3.60MB
Gallery 3.48MB
ConfigUpdater 3.23MB
Phone 3.17MB
Talkback 3.03MB
Exchange Services 2.62MB
Chrome 2.60MB
Google Text-to-speech Engine 2.57MB
Camera 2.06MB
Keep 1.95MB
Setup Wizard 1.91MB
System UI 1.86MB
Contacts Storage 1.86MB
com.android.keyguard 1.59MB
Calendar 1.57MB
Media Storage 1.49MB
HP Print Service Plugin 1.30MB
Sound Search for Google Play 1.23MB
iWinn IME 1.20MB
Google Keyboard 1.18MB
Google Play Games 1.05MB
Google Pinyin 1.00MB
Google Hindi Input 840KB
Download Manager 804KB
Bluetooth Share 788KB
Calendar Storage 784KB
Update Device 760KB
Clock 644KB
Market Feedback Agent 590KB
News & Weather 544KB
Documents 528KB
Tags 516KB
Google Contacts Sync 488KB
Google Partner Setup 488KB
Phone/Messaging Storage 468KB
Google Backup Transport 432KB
Calculator 360KB
Settings Storage 316KB
Street View 316KB
Nfc Service 292KB
Google Korean Keyboard 228KB
Services Programu 204KB
com.android.wallpapercropper 192KB
MusicFX 188KB
Print Spooler 160KB
Package installer 156KB
com.android.backupconfirm 140KB
Input Devices 136KB
Cell Broadcasts 96.00KB
Face Unlock 76KB
VpnDialogs 72KB
Shell 68KB
External Storage 56KB
User Dictionary 56KB
SIM Toolkit 48KB
Package Access Helper 44KB
Google One Time Init 40KB
Certificate Installer 36KB
com.qualcomm.qcrilmsgtunnel 36KB
Downloads 36KB
Fused Location 32KB
iWnnIME Keyboard (White) 32KB
Key Chain 32KB
Live Wallpaper Picker 28KB
Sun Beam 24KB
Basic Daydreams 20KB
com.android.sharedstorageba 20KB
ProxyHandler 20KB
com.android.providers.partner 16KB
com.leg.update 12KB
com.android.browser.provider 8KB
HTML Viewer 8KB
PacProcessor 8KB
com.qualcomm.timeservice 4KB
Launcher 4KB

[TJ]

On 04/10/2014 04:38 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 01:19:46 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:
>
>> The "visible" bloatware (based on icons) doesn't seem too bad:
>
> I should clarify that this "visible bloatware" was compiled
> from the "apps" menu.
>
> Here is what the settings reports is on the brand new
> out-of-the-box 12.28GB T-Mobile Google Nexus 5 (Android 4.4.2):
>
(snip list of all apps, mis-identified as bloatware)

Danny, you need to realize that not ALL the apps installed are
"bloatware." Were you to remove all those apps, IHO your phone would be
pretty much as useless as the phone that was rejected.

One man's "bloatware" is another's "essential app." There are some apps
there that *I* wouldn't have a use for, but I can see where others
might. You've mentioned mapping/navigation apps as essential for you - I
have no use for them.

I'd definitely think twice about labeling all pre-installed apps as
"bloatware," if I were you. Consider Google Play Services, for example.
As I misunderstand it, if that's not there you won't be able to use any
of the Google Play Stores at all, and you'd miss out on the major source
for Android apps that you might actually *want*.

TJ

[TJ]

On 04/11/2014 12:08 PM, TJ wrote:
> On 04/10/2014 04:38 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 01:19:46 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:
>>
>>> The "visible" bloatware (based on icons) doesn't seem too bad:
>>
>> I should clarify that this "visible bloatware" was compiled
>> from the "apps" menu.
>>
>> Here is what the settings reports is on the brand new
>> out-of-the-box 12.28GB T-Mobile Google Nexus 5 (Android 4.4.2):
>>
> (snip list of all apps, mis-identified as bloatware)
>
> Danny, you need to realize that not ALL the apps installed are
> "bloatware." Were you to remove all those apps, IHO your phone would be
> pretty much as useless as the phone that was rejected.
>
> One man's "bloatware" is another's "essential app." There are some apps
> there that *I* wouldn't have a use for, but I can see where others
> might. You've mentioned mapping/navigation apps as essential for you - I
> have no use for them.
>
> I'd definitely think twice about labeling all pre-installed apps as
> "bloatware," if I were you. Consider Google Play Services, for example.
> As I misunderstand it, if that's not there you won't be able to use any
> of the Google Play Stores at all, and you'd miss out on the major source
> for Android apps that you might actually *want*.
>
> TJ
>
Come to think of it, that's something for you to look into before
changing the OS on your phone. If you do, can you still go to Google
Play for apps? Do you care? Amazon would still be available, but IMO not
in the same league as Google. Not nearly as many free apps from what I
can see, and many of the ones I do see are just come-ons for in-app
purchasing.

TJ

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:08:47 -0400, TJ wrote:

> I'd definitely think twice about labeling all pre-installed
> apps as "bloatware,"

This is a good point that all the software isn't bloat.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

I had been listing the entire "set" which came with the Nexus 5,
out of the box.

I agree, not all of the apps that came with the phone are bloat.

So others can benefit from my efforts (and so they can advise
me of apps that I've missed), here is what the new Nexus looks
like, now that I've *added* a few apps, to make the phone useful
to a kid:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

NOTE: Some is the original software; others were added by me.

Communications folder
- Gmail
- People
- Email
- Hangouts
- Viber

Web folder
- Chrome
- Google
- Google+
- News & Weather

Pic folder
- Gallery
- Photos

Record folder
- Camera
- Smart Voice Recorder
- Automatic Call Recorder
- Google Translate (wasn't sure where to put this)

Todo folder
- Calendar
- Clock
- Keep

Shopping folder
- Out of Milk
- Barcode Scanner
- Calculator

Media folder
- Play Music
- YouTube

Office folder
- Office Mobile
- Google Quickoffice (came with Android)
- Kingsoft Office

Game folder
- Temple Run 2
- Hungry Shark
- Candy Crush
- Play Games (can't get rid of this guy)

Map folder
- Google Maps
- Navigator
- Google Earth (came with the OS)
- CoPilot crippleware
- My Tracks

System folder
- Battery Doctor
- Task Killer
- Clean Master
- WiFi Analyzer (wasn't sure where to put this)
- Tesla LED (wasn't sure where to put this)

Setup folder
- Settings
- Play Store
- Downloads (wasn't sure where this goes)
- Drive (wasn't sure where to put this)

PS: If you have ideas as to organization, I'm all ears!
Also if you know of critical missing apps, let me know.

[The Real Bev]

On 04/14/2014 12:09 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:08:47 -0400, TJ wrote:
>
>> I'd definitely think twice about labeling all pre-installed
>> apps as "bloatware,"
>
> This is a good point that all the software isn't bloat.
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg
>
> I had been listing the entire "set" which came with the Nexus 5,
> out of the box.
>
> I agree, not all of the apps that came with the phone are bloat.
>
> So others can benefit from my efforts (and so they can advise
> me of apps that I've missed), here is what the new Nexus looks
> like, now that I've *added* a few apps, to make the phone useful
> to a kid:
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg
>
> NOTE: Some is the original software; others were added by me.

<much snippage>
> Setup folder
> - Settings
> - Play Store
> - Downloads (wasn't sure where this goes)
> - Drive (wasn't sure where to put this)
>
> PS: If you have ideas as to organization, I'm all ears!
> Also if you know of critical missing apps, let me know.

Damn! You're really organized. Mine are just sort of lumped together
on an ad hoc basis, which means It's generally easier to find something
in the 'applications' page :-(


--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely and in a
well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
and shouting HOLY SHIT, WHAT A RIDE!!!

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:19:13 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> Damn! You're really organized. Mine are just sort of lumped together
> on an ad hoc basis, which means It's generally easier to find something
> in the 'applications' page :-(

Thanks for noticing.

I've always organized my software hierarchies, from the start,
and have done so since the 90's, on all the Windows variants.

Android is a bit different, in that you are extremely limited
in how you can organize apps, but, at least it allows a
rudimentary organizational structure.

Android, unfortunately, doesn't allow renaming of cryptically
named or idiotically named apps either; nor can you put the
app installation where you want; but at least you can put
the desktop shortcuts into aligned folders.

You'll notice also the judicious and constant use of freeware,
since almost everything that one needs to do can be done with
the best freeware (or, as in the case of CoPilot, crippleware).

I'm testing these apps, for example, to see which is the best
freeware phone-locator tool to put on this phone for a kid.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2914/13860840325_d6935523c1_b.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 01:26:43 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> I'm testing these apps, for example, to see which is the best
> freeware phone-locator tool to put on this phone for a kid.
> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2914/13860840325_d6935523c1_b.jpg

Ooops. Wrong screenshot of freeware phone-locator tools:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3666/13861376405_75fe49a81d_b.jpg

BTW, this is a Linux view of how much space is left (roughly)
after the dozen or so necessary apps are added to a brand new
out-of-the-box smartphone such as the 16GB/12.5GB Nexus 5:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/13861204545_93a1a715be_b.jpg

That Linux report of 11.5GB (out of 16GB) free space, corresponds
to this Android 4.4.2 App-Storage report of 10.72 GB available
out of the original 12.55 that wasn't taken up by Android itself:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2879/13861489633_b8b02699e3_b.jpg

[The Real Bev]

On 04/14/2014 06:26 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:19:13 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Damn! You're really organized. Mine are just sort of lumped together
>> on an ad hoc basis, which means It's generally easier to find something
>> in the 'applications' page :-(
>
> Thanks for noticing.
>
> I've always organized my software hierarchies, from the start,
> and have done so since the 90's, on all the Windows variants.

I despise hierarchies that somebody else designed -- especially Windows.
You have to guess where somebody else thought it was a good idea to
put somethng :-( And I've generally used commands to do a lot of stuff,
and having long pathnames is more than I want to deal with, especially
if something doesn't have tab-completion.

> Android is a bit different, in that you are extremely limited
> in how you can organize apps, but, at least it allows a
> rudimentary organizational structure.
>
> Android, unfortunately, doesn't allow renaming of cryptically
> named or idiotically named apps either; nor can you put the
> app installation where you want; but at least you can put
> the desktop shortcuts into aligned folders.

I don't see how to do 'folders' on either the BLU or my Samsung tablet.
Just pages, and it's kind of cumbersome to move things around,
especially if you're clumsy :-(

> You'll notice also the judicious and constant use of freeware,
> since almost everything that one needs to do can be done with
> the best freeware (or, as in the case of CoPilot, crippleware).

I paid for two ski apps, but I got $25 worth of appstore stuff free with
my tablet so I'm good. The ads are annoying, but there's always a price...

> I'm testing these apps, for example, to see which is the best
> freeware phone-locator tool to put on this phone for a kid.
> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2914/13860840325_d6935523c1_b.jpg

Give preference to something that will find a phone when it's turned off :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Never try to extort more than it would cost to have you killed.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:10:23 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> I despise hierarchies that somebody else designed -- especially Windows.

Mine are logical, but, that's not the point.

< begin rant >

The critical point, which almost nobody understands, is that because
*most* people can't find their stuff, the operating system has layer
upon layer of crap added, just to help people find their stuff.

In fact, the entire concept of "library" and "recent anything" is a
lame attempt by the operating system to help people find stuff that
they should know where it is when they turned on the machine in
the first place.

I realize very very few people can possibly understand what I'm
saying, and even fewer will agree (because they have their own notion
of how to organize a computer).

My main point is that people can organize the computer any way
they want - but - if most don't organize it any way whatsoever.

And that's exactly just one reason why we have so many layers of
crap on top of crap in the operating systems.

< / end of rant >

[The Real Bev]

On 05/01/2014 09:50 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:10:23 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I despise hierarchies that somebody else designed -- especially Windows.
>
> Mine are logical, but, that's not the point.
>
> < begin rant >
>
> The critical point, which almost nobody understands, is that because
> *most* people can't find their stuff, the operating system has layer
> upon layer of crap added, just to help people find their stuff.
>
> In fact, the entire concept of "library" and "recent anything" is a
> lame attempt by the operating system to help people find stuff that
> they should know where it is when they turned on the machine in
> the first place.

One of the first macros I wrote back in DOS days was something so I
could look at a directory one page at a time, sorted by date with the
newest files on top. I almost never do anything else. I also tried to
make the subdirectories I used frequently require as little typing as
possible.

> I realize very very few people can possibly understand what I'm
> saying, and even fewer will agree (because they have their own notion
> of how to organize a computer).
>
> My main point is that people can organize the computer any way
> they want - but - if most don't organize it any way whatsoever.
>
> And that's exactly just one reason why we have so many layers of
> crap on top of crap in the operating systems.

At lease ES File Explorer can sort files by time. I just wish it gave
size information too, but maybe some other file manager does that.

--
Cheers, Bev
---------------------------------------------
"The primary purpose of any government entity
is to employ the unemployable."

[Chris Uppal]

The Real Bev wrote:

> At lease ES File Explorer can sort files by time. I just wish it gave
> size information too, but maybe some other file manager does that.

I've recently been converted to "FX"[*] -- which is the first file manager I've
tried[**] that does what I want it to /and/ works the way I want it to. Among
other things it can sort by name, date, size, or type.

-- chris

[*] Oddly enogh, as a result of the Android 4.4 vs. SD card fiasco -- looking
for a cure found "NextApp SDFix" (which requires temporary root access
apparently so I haven't actually used it yet) and tried FX from the same
authors. And immediately bought the full version.

[**] Others include "AndroidXplorer" (the previous favourite), "QI File
Manager", "File Comander", "ES File Explorer", "AndExplorer", and "File
Manager"

[M.L.]

>> At lease ES File Explorer can sort files by time. I just wish it gave
>> size information too, but maybe some other file manager does that.
>
>I've recently been converted to "FX"[*] -- which is the first file manager I've
>tried[**] that does what I want it to /and/ works the way I want it to. Among
>other things it can sort by name, date, size, or type.

The View icon of ES File Explorer allows sorting by name, type, size
and modified date.

[Chris Uppal]

Danny D. wrote:
> < begin rant >
>
> And that's exactly just one reason why we have so many layers of
> crap on top of crap in the operating systems.
>
> < / end of rant >

The helpful features/worthless layers of crap are OK when you can side-step
them. What gets me is when the OS makes it difficult or impossible to find
stuff /without/ using the "helpful features".

On Windows XP I have a nicely -- hierarchically -- organised "Start" menu. It
has around 1,800 links in around 500 (nested) folders.

On my newer Windows 8+ machines -- when I get them loaded with similar numbers
of programs and other links -- that load will be completely unmanageable,
because it /only/ provides "search" and (leaving aside the fact that the search
doesn't work properly) /I don't know the names of most of the stuff in the
hierarchy!/ I don't /need/ to -- all I need to know is how to navigate to them
(and to related programs, that I might even have forgotten I had).

For instance, I know that on this machine there is a program to search websites
for broken links. Can't remember a thing about what it's called or who
provided it. But I know how to find it. It's under "Network tools".

Android is, and increasingly so, like Windows *8+ in that it actively prevents
me from arranging stuff /my/ way.

Grrr...

-- chris

[Lewis]

In message <lihbp8$9v9$***@speranza.aioe.org>
Danny D. <***@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:08:47 -0400, TJ wrote:

>> I'd definitely think twice about labeling all pre-installed
>> apps as "bloatware,"

> This is a good point that all the software isn't bloat.
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

> I had been listing the entire "set" which came with the Nexus 5,
> out of the box.

> I agree, not all of the apps that came with the phone are bloat.

There isn't a single app on that list I'd call bloatware.

Bloatware is the 2+ GB of shit that a carrier and/or Samsung adds to a
phone. Some (very few) of those apps in your list are apps I wouldn't
use,. but none of them are bloatware.

> So others can benefit from my efforts (and so they can advise
> me of apps that I've missed), here is what the new Nexus looks
> like, now that I've *added* a few apps, to make the phone useful
> to a kid:
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

> NOTE: Some is the original software; others were added by me.

> PS: If you have ideas as to organization, I'm all ears!
> Also if you know of critical missing apps, let me know.

Depends on the age of the kid. Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, and/or
Twitter may be required. Maybe even actually required. I have a kid in
High School who has to have a Facebook account because his school clubs
post event notices to Facebook only. It's also impossible to organize a
study group without Facebook. He hates Facebook nearly as much as I do,
but at this point he doesn't really have a choice.

I have a folder for mail and phone apps (Hangouts, gmail, mail, mailbox,
Messages, Google Voice) and a separate folder for "social" apps (Google
+, app.net, twitter, Line, etc). Yes, I know some people would put
Hangouts in social, but I don't.

I like to have several maps apps and weather apps, and I put those
together along with Gas Cubby and the Automatic app.

Dropbox is a requirement for me on any computer or device.

My Sound folder contains iTunes, Downcasts (podcast app), Soundhound,
Sonos, Google's Play Music, iTunesU, Spotify, Pandora, and a couple of
Smule apps. Oh, and I recently reinstalled Shazam because of something
on TV I wanted to use it with.

I have a separate folder for movie/video apps, including things like
Flixster and Fandango as well as video players like Plex and Youtube and
Ted and the (terrible) app for my AMC Stubs card.

--
“Life is one damned kitten after another." Mehitabel the Alley Cat”

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:23:48 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> Bloatware is the 2+ GB of shit that a carrier and/or Samsung adds to a
> phone. Some (very few) of those apps in your list are apps I wouldn't
> use,. but none of them are bloatware.

I understand your point.

Whether it's actually bloatware, or just non-removable appware
might not really be the key point anyway, since it can't be removed.

On the left side of this screenshot, for example, is a listing
of the 100 or so apps that came with my recent $400 12GB Nexus 5:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/13887552563_e505818cf3_h.jpg

That set of about 100 pre-loaded apps, plus the Android OS, took
up about 4GB of the claimed 16GB of the primary flash memory.

After adding what I deem to be a "typical" set of apps to that
12GB Nexus 5, what remained was about 10GB for user content.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:23:48 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> Depends on the age of the kid.
> Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, and/or Twitter may be required.

Nice list!
I'm using it, as we speak, to create a "typical" app list!

> I have a folder for mail and phone apps (Hangouts, gmail, mail, mailbox,
> Messages, Google Voice) and a separate folder for "social" apps (Google
> +, app.net, twitter, Line, etc).

I hadn't known that Google Voice was a separate app, so, I'll
add that to the "typical" list. Thanks!

Also, I had never heard of "Line" or "app.net", so, I'll
investigate adding them (once I figure out what they are).

> I like to have several maps apps and weather apps, and I put those
> together along with Gas Cubby and the Automatic app.

I will add the "Gas Buddy" app to the "typical" list. Thanks.

> Dropbox is a requirement for me on any computer or device.

Good idea. I will add it to the "typical" list.

> My Sound folder contains iTunes, Downcasts (podcast app), Soundhound,
> Sonos, Google's Play Music, iTunesU, Spotify, Pandora, and a couple of
> Smule apps. Oh, and I recently reinstalled Shazam because of something
> on TV I wanted to use it with.

Hmmmmmmm... iTunes? On Android? I didn't realize that was an option.
I deplore iTunes, mostly because it's one of the worst examples of
a user interface that I have ever seen, and I've tested a lot!

After having been burned (many times) by iTunes, I resolved to
never use it ever again, except to temporarily install in order
to initialize the many personal and gift iPods that I've bought
over the years. Then I delete it immediately, if not sooner.

Do typical Android users really use iTunes?

> I have a separate folder for movie/video apps, including
> things like Flixster and Fandango as well as video players
> like Plex and Youtube and Ted and the (terrible) app for
> my AMC Stubs card.

Thanks again!

Ted?
Plex?

I'll need to look these up.

Since I don't watch video on "my" Android phone, I wasn't
aware of these; but I will add them to the "typical" list
and report back to the group for review, so that everyone
can mutually benefit from our efforts, as always.

[Lewis]

In message <lim8ih$dpr$***@speranza.aioe.org>
Danny D. <***@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:23:48 +0000, Lewis wrote:

>> Depends on the age of the kid.
>> Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, and/or Twitter may be required.

> Nice list!
> I'm using it, as we speak, to create a "typical" app list!

>> I have a folder for mail and phone apps (Hangouts, gmail, mail, mailbox,
>> Messages, Google Voice) and a separate folder for "social" apps (Google
>> +, app.net, twitter, Line, etc).

> I hadn't known that Google Voice was a separate app, so, I'll
> add that to the "typical" list. Thanks!

It might not be separate on android, but I suspect it is because even
the chrome app for Hangouts doesn't pick up the voice mails from google
voice.

> Also, I had never heard of "Line" or "app.net", so, I'll
> investigate adding them (once I figure out what they are).

Line is like What'sApp, Messenger, etc.

App.net is like twitter.

>> I like to have several maps apps and weather apps, and I put those
>> together along with Gas Cubby and the Automatic app.

> I will add the "Gas Buddy" app to the "typical" list. Thanks.

>> Dropbox is a requirement for me on any computer or device.

> Good idea. I will add it to the "typical" list.

>> My Sound folder contains iTunes, Downcasts (podcast app), Soundhound,
>> Sonos, Google's Play Music, iTunesU, Spotify, Pandora, and a couple of
>> Smule apps. Oh, and I recently reinstalled Shazam because of something
>> on TV I wanted to use it with.

> Hmmmmmmm... iTunes? On Android? I didn't realize that was an option.

It's not. My phone is an iPhone. Still, most of the apps are available
on both platforms.

> I deplore iTunes, mostly because it's one of the worst examples of
> a user interface that I have ever seen, and I've tested a lot!

It's better than every other music player app I've ever used, and that's
probably in the low triple digits. I'm not saying it's good, just better
than everything else. I tried to help someone once with their music
player in Ubuntu. Never going to do that again, what a horrible piece of
shit. Then we tried Banshee (widely considered one of the best if not
the best Linux music player) and while it looked better, it was a
freaking nightmare to setup and it really made some thigns very awkward
and unnecessarily hard.

> Do typical Android users really use iTunes?

No idea. The majority of people I know have iPhones and the android
users don't seem to do anything with their phones that might involve a
computer. They call, they text, and they might check the weather.

> Ted?

TED. http://www.ted.com

> Plex?

plexapp.com

--
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you
really make them think, they'll hate you.” ― Don Marquis

[Danny DiAmico]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:01:06 BST, Bob Martin wrote:
> If those apps constitute "bloatware" to you then
> clearly you neither want nor need a smart-phone.

Here's my take on just those visible desktop icon apps:

KEEP BECAUSE THEY ARE USEFUL and OFTEN USED:
- Calculator
- Calendar
- Camera
- Clock
- Gmail
- Maps (Google)
- People
- Phone
- Photos
- Settings
- Play Store
- YouTube

DELETE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER BE USED:
- Chrome (why need more than 1 single small quick secure browser?)
- Email (why use Email when you can use Gmail?)
- Google (why not just use a browser?)
- Google+ (who needs social networking? Not me!)
- Hangouts (don't even know what this is)
- Quickoffice (why not just use the "real" office?)

UNKNOWN AS TO WHAT THESE PROGRAMS EVEN DO SO I'D DELETE THESE:
- Downloads (who knows what this is?)
- Drive (who knows what this is?)
- Gallery (who knows what this is?)
- Google Settings (why can't we do this from a browser?)
- Keep (who even knows what this is?)
- News & Weather (why can't we get this from a browser?)
- Play Books (I've never used this, whatever it is)
- Play Games (I've never used this, whatever it is)
- Play Magazines (I've never used this, whatever it is)
- Play Movies (I've never used this, whatever it is)
- Play Music (I've never used this, whatever it is)
- Wallet (I've never used this, whatever it is)

If you know what some of these programs do,
then please let the rest of us know, because I'd delete
them in a heartbeat, if I could. I just can't.

[TJ]

On 04/15/2014 11:56 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:01:06 BST, Bob Martin wrote:
>> If those apps constitute "bloatware" to you then
>> clearly you neither want nor need a smart-phone.
>
> Here's my take on just those visible desktop icon apps:
>
> KEEP BECAUSE THEY ARE USEFUL and OFTEN USED:
> - Calculator
> - Calendar
> - Camera
> - Clock
> - Gmail
> - Maps (Google)
> - People
> - Phone
> - Photos
> - Settings
> - Play Store
> - YouTube
>
> DELETE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER BE USED:
> - Chrome (why need more than 1 single small quick secure browser?)

Depends on the sites visited. Some browsers are better on some sites
than others. I know the Linux version of Chrome comes with a Flash
player that is more recent than the one from Adobe, but which won't run
in Firefox. And before you say that's what the Youtube app is for,
remember that flash videos are embedded in many places other than Youtube.

> - Email (why use Email when you can use Gmail?)

Because AFAIK, Gmail only works with Gmail accounts. Other domains need
not apply.

> - Google (why not just use a browser?)

See below.

> - Google+ (who needs social networking? Not me!)

Is this one of the phones you're giving to a grandchild? And you're
wondering who needs social networking? You're even more out of touch
than I thought.

> - Hangouts (don't even know what this is)

Appears to be another social networking app.

> - Quickoffice (why not just use the "real" office?)

Personal preference. I don't have any use for an office program on my
Android tablet, but if I did, I'd want something other than a Microsoft
product. Something that would be able to use the open document format
files I produce with LibreOffice on my Linux desktop computer.

>
> UNKNOWN AS TO WHAT THESE PROGRAMS EVEN DO SO I'D DELETE THESE:
> - Downloads (who knows what this is?)

Lets you view recent downloads. Probably nice if you do a lot of
downloading on your phone.

> - Drive (who knows what this is?)

Appears to be for accessing Google's free cloud file storage.

> - Gallery (who knows what this is?)

Used to view photos, videos, etc. on your phone. If you take photos, you
probably want this.

> - Google Settings (why can't we do this from a browser?)

Some "settings" can't be done with a browser. Your phone's settings, for
example. I suggest you find out what is being set before deciding to
delete this one.

> - Keep (who even knows what this is?)

Appears to be a personal organizer.

> - News & Weather (why can't we get this from a browser?)

See below.
> - Play Books (I've never used this, whatever it is)

Used to "purchase" and read ebooks from Google. As with Google Play,
there are free books as well.

> - Play Games (I've never used this, whatever it is)
> - Play Magazines (I've never used this, whatever it is)
> - Play Movies (I've never used this, whatever it is)
> - Play Music (I've never used this, whatever it is)

Ditto for Games, Magazines, Movies, Music.

> - Wallet (I've never used this, whatever it is)

Used to make purchases through your phone.

>
> If you know what some of these programs do,
> then please let the rest of us know, because I'd delete
> them in a heartbeat, if I could. I just can't.
>
On the "Why not just use a browser?" questions, often it's because the
web interface is more cumbersome to use with an Android device than a
specialized app. For example, I read my daily newspaper with an app
especially designed for it. I *can* use a browser for the same thing,
and did on my Linux PC before buying the tablet. But, the web interface
is rather clunky. The Android app is much easier and more convenient to use.

On the other hand, the newspaper's website (not the same as the paper
itself) is a different story. I much prefer to use the website with my
PC than with either the special app or any of the Android browsers.

With the local TV weather, it's the same thing. The browser is fine on
the PC, but on the tablet the special app is better.

It's really a matter of personal preference with each app.

TJ

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:36:55 -0400, TJ wrote:

> Is this one of the phones you're giving to a grandchild? And you're
> wondering who needs social networking? You're even more out of touch
> than I thought.

Good point. I don't even know *what* social networking sites
they are on; nor do I know their logins; and certainly I don't
know their passwords.

So, I just populated the 12GB Nexus 5 with my favorite free apps,
which took up another 2GB of primary flash storage space.

Here are the detailed results:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/13887552563_e505818cf3_h.jpg

[Zaky Waky]

"Danny D." <***@ahr.invalid> wrote in news:lil3i3$fcs$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:36:55 -0400, TJ wrote:
>
>> Is this one of the phones you're giving to a grandchild? And you're
>> wondering who needs social networking? You're even more out of touch
>> than I thought.
>
> Good point. I don't even know *what* social networking sites
> they are on; nor do I know their logins; and certainly I don't
> know their passwords.
>
> So, I just populated the 12GB Nexus 5 with my favorite free apps,
> which took up another 2GB of primary flash storage space.
>
> Here are the detailed results:
> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/13887552563_e505818cf3_h.jpg
>

So, to surerize from your various threads, posts, photo essays and rants:

1) You don't understand how much available memory comes with a mobile
andriod.

2) The device you see is a great price, almost too good to be true, and
certainly a good bargin.

4) There are litteraly hundreds of apps that you want to install on this
"bottom line" devices that use a lot of memory. You wnat to install them
even though they cannot use the supplimental memory card you bought, but
you "thought they should be able to us the card'.

5) It finally dawns on you that this cheap entry level phone is more like
a Vega than a Corvette and you are pissed about it. You want to find out
who cheated you and who is to blame.

6) You spend the next week railing at the FTC, the phone manufacturer and
the advertising industry for you incompetitence. You want them to pay
for your stupidity.

7) Finally, the manufacturer takes pitty on you and will give you credit
for one of you phones, said credit being applied to the purchase of a new
"better model" from the same manufacturer; as long as you stick with the
manjfacturer's 36-month data plan.

Nice work DD. Your are a salesman's wed-tream.
You must have a lot of time on your hands.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:42:01 +0000, Zaky Waky wrote:

> 1) You don't understand how much available memory comes
> with a mobile andriod.

Hi Zaky Waky,

These observations were apropos, and I don't disagree with some.
Here are technical clarifications for each excellent point below.

> 1) You don't understand how much available memory comes
> with a mobile andriod.

I fully agree. I was a fool. I fell for the implied promise
that the 32GB sdcard could, somehow, augment the primary memory.

I was wrong!

Basically, there is almost zero primary memory left on the
LG Optimus L9 and F3. On all the phones that I have bought,
(about a half dozen), all lose about 4GB out of the box,
which can never be recovered (sans rooting).

In addition, each loses at least another 2GB to load the
a "typical user" might want to load in the first week.

I didn't study what you need after those 6GB are used up.

> 2) The device you see is a great price, almost too good to
> be true, and certainly a good bargin.

There are no real bargains in Android phones that I know of.

It's trivially easy to buy a great $600 phone; but it's not easy to
buy a good $200 phone. The 12GB Moto G, for examnple, that I bought,
is a good $200 phone; the 0GB LG Optimus L9 & 0GB LG Optimus F3 are
both terrible $200 phones.

> 4) There are litteraly hundreds of apps that you want to install
> on this "bottom line" devices that use a lot of memory. You
> wnat to install them even though they cannot use the supplimental
> memory card you bought, but you "thought they should be able
> to us the card'.

On my 12GB Samsung Galaxy SIII, I have, probably hundreds, of apps.

But these $200 gift phones only get the desired apps. We listed
exactly what those apps are. The total, including pre-installed apps,
is around three score, as follows:

Automatic Call Recorder, Barcode Scanner, Battery Doctor, Calculator,
Calendar, Camera, Candy Crush, ChatSecure, Chrome, Clean Master, Clock,
CoPilot, Device Manager , Downloads, DuckDuckGo search engine, Email,
ES File Explorer, Firefox, Focal, Gallery, Gmail, Google, Google Drive,
Google Earth, Google Maps, Google Translate, Hangouts, Hungry Shark,
Keep, Kingsoft Office, Lookout, My Tracks, Navigator, News & Weather,
Office Mobile, Orbot, Orweb, Out of Milk, Pandora, People, Phone, Photos,
Play Games, Play Music, Play Store, Prey , Proxy Mobile add-on for
Firefox, QuickOffice, Red Laser, Settings, Skype, Smart Voice,
Temple Run 2, TeslaLED, Viber, VLC DIrect Pro, WiFi Analyzer, & YouTube.

As noted, that list doesn't count trendy social-networking sites,
which the gift recipients will need to install themselves.

User input as to the "standard" apps almost everyone would want is
always solicited, as I/we want to learn from you.

> 5) It finally dawns on you that this cheap entry level phone is
> more like a Vega than a Corvette and you are pissed about it.
> You want to find out who cheated you and who is to blame.

I had expected a $200 Vega; but what I got was a $200 go cart.

Both the 0GB LG Optimus L9 & F3 $200 gifts performed like go carts.
My $200 12GB Moto-G gift phone, on the other hand, performed like a Vega.
In contrast, my $600 12GB Samsung Galaxy SIII performs like a Corvette.

Mea culpa. I believed the phone manufacturer's advertisements.
Now, I know, they lie. These LG phones are, essentially, 0GB phones.
Caveat emptor.

> 6) You spend the next week railing at the FTC, the phone
> manufacturer and the advertising industry for you incompetitence.
> You want them to pay for your stupidity.

Not factual. I filed a complaint to the FTC & FCC. I explained that I
believe I was duped by the carrier's advertising & customer support.
I am fully aware that my complaint will be meaningless unless/until
others file similar complaints.

If I'm the only one - nothing will change.

In addition, I'm not asking anyone to *pay* for my mistakes.

Most importantly, I don't want my gift recipients to pay for my
mistakes by being stuck with these go carts.

To that end, I've already *paid* T-Mobile an additional $200 to
upgrade the 0GB LG Optimus F3 go-cart to a 12GB Nexus 5.

The 0GB LG Optimus L9 is still useless, sitting in the box, waiting
for me to figure out how to make it usable.

> 7) Finally, the manufacturer takes pitty on you and will give
> you credit for one of you phones, said credit being applied
> to the purchase of a new "better model" from the same
> manufacturer; as long as you stick with the manjfacturer's
> 36-month data plan.

Not fully factual. T-Mobile did not give me a contract.

In addition, while T-Mobile did give me a $240 full-price
credit for the unusable 0GB LG Optimus F3, they also charged me
the full $400 price for the 12GB Nexus 5.

All of us know that I could buy a $28GB unlocked Nexus 5 for the
same price on Amazon, so, don't feel too sorry for T-Mobile, since
all their phones are about $50 higher than better (unlocked) phones.

The reason I had gone to the T-mobile store was that the gift recipient
had wanted to choose the phone at the store. Otherwise I would have
purchased an unlocked $200 0GB LG Optimus F3 on the open market for less.

> Nice work DD. Your are a salesman's wed-tream.
> You must have a lot of time on your hands.

Thanks for your observations. I learn from *everyone* here; so, to
that end, I greatly appreciate your input.

Danny D.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Danny D.:
>I fully agree. I was a fool. I fell for the implied promise
>that the 32GB sdcard could, somehow, augment the primary memory.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but could you expand on
that?

I'm a fairly heavy external SD card user and, while I would agree that
not all apps can be moved to external SD, I found that many can. Also,
music, photos, and books are slam-dunks for external SD.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:23:26 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> I haven't read all the posts in this thread,
> but could you expand on that?
>
> I'm a fairly heavy external SD card user and, while I would agree that
> not all apps can be moved to external SD, I found that many can. Also,
> music, photos, and books are slam-dunks for external SD.

I agree it isn't intuitive that you can't use the sdcard
for app storage.

In fact, the manufacturers and carriers "imply" that you can:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/11309699925_b12f3b390c_b.jpg

The complete answer is that it's technically complicated; but the
simple answer is shown in these reviews on the LG web site for
my particular model (P769) of the T-Mobile 0GB LG Optimus L9:
http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-P769-optimus-l9/reviews

Basically, it's not obvious that this is, essentially, a 0GB
phone, even with a 32GB sdcard - until you actually try to use
that sdcard for app storage.

LG support (800-243-0000) told me point blank that you can't
use the sd card to move or delete the 4GB of pre-loaded apps.
And, you can't even download new apps to that sdcard.

The "why" is complicated, and I don't really fully understand
it myself. Googling, we find these explanations ...

Is Google blocking apps writing to SD cards?
http://www.chainfire.eu/articles/113/Is_Google_blocking_apps_writing_to_SD_cards_/

Google Has Brought Big Changes to SD Cards in KitKat
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/02/17/external-blues-google-has-brought-big-changes-to-sd-cards-in-kitkat-and-even-samsung-may-be-implementing-them/

Why Google Wants to Kill SD Cards
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Why-Google-wants-to-kill-SD-cards-and-whats-holding-them-back_id23986

KitKat and SD Cards - What's Fixed, What's Broken
http://www.androidcentral.com/kitkat-sdcard-changes

Why Does Google Hate Your SD Card
http://pocketnow.com/2013/08/23/google-hates-sdcards

etc.

If someone who is more technical than I can *summarize* where
we stand on using sd cards for app storage, please explain!

[Danny D.]

(PeteCresswell) wrote, on Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:23:26 -0400:

> I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but could you expand
> on [why the SD card can't be used for apps]?
>
> I'm a fairly heavy external SD card user and, while I would agree that
> not all apps can be moved to external SD, I found that many can. Also,
> music, photos, and books are slam-dunks for external SD.

I agree it isn't intuitive that you can't use the sdcard
for app storage.

In fact, the manufacturers and carriers "imply" that you can:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/11309699925_b12f3b390c_b.jpg

The complete answer is that it's technically complicated; but the
simple answer is shown in these reviews on the LG web site for
my particular model (P769) of the T-Mobile 0GB LG Optimus L9:
http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-P769-optimus-l9/reviews

Basically, it's not obvious that this is, essentially, a 0GB
phone, even with a 32GB sdcard - until you actually try to use
that sdcard for app storage.

LG support (800-243-0000) told me point blank that you can't
use the sd card to move or delete the 4GB of pre-loaded apps.
And, you can't even download new apps to that sdcard.

The "why" is complicated, and I don't really fully understand
it myself. Googling, we find these explanations ...

Is Google blocking apps writing to SD cards?
http://www.chainfire.eu/articles/113/Is_Google_blocking_apps_writing_to_SD_cards_/

Google Has Brought Big Changes to SD Cards in KitKat
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/02/17/external-blues-google-has-brought-big-changes-to-sd-cards-in-kitkat-and-even-samsung-may-be-implementing-them/

Why Google Wants to Kill SD Cards
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Why-Google-wants-to-kill-SD-cards-and-whats-holding-them-back_id23986

KitKat and SD Cards - What's Fixed, What's Broken
http://www.androidcentral.com/kitkat-sdcard-changes

Why Does Google Hate Your SD Card
http://pocketnow.com/2013/08/23/google-hates-sdcards

etc.

If someone who is more technical than I can *summarize* where
we stand on using sd cards for app storage, please explain!

[Lewis]

In message <lik598$ghv$***@dont-email.me>
TJ <***@noneofyour.business> wrote:
>> - Hangouts (don't even know what this is)

> Appears to be another social networking app.

No, hangouts is a messaging app that has some (but only SOME) of the
functionality of Google Voice.

>> - Drive (who knows what this is?)

> Appears to be for accessing Google's free cloud file storage.

As well as Google's insanely cheap cloud storage.

--
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F16

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:28:06 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> ... hangouts is a messaging app that has some (but only SOME)
> of the functionality of Google Voice.

My 12GB Nexus 5 came *only* with Hangouts, as the SMS phone app!

How does this list, culled from the suggestions in this thread,
look for the "typical" apps a user might wish to add?

Sample desktop organization:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/13887552563_e505818cf3_h.jpg

[Communicate]
Gmail
Email
People
Hangouts
Viber
Skype
Google Voice

[Social]
Snapchat
Instagram
Facebook
Twitter
Line
Linked-In
Google+

[Web]
Chrome
Firefox
Google Search
News & Weather

[Map]
Google Maps
Navigator
CoPilot
My Tracks
Google Earth

[Game]
Temple Run 2
Hungry Shark
Candy Crush
Play Games

[Camera]
Camera
Focal

[Audio]
Phone
Pandora
Play Music
Smart Voice
Google Translate
Automatic Call Recorder

[Video]
YouTube
VLC
Flixster
Fandango
Plex

[Files]
ES File Explorer
Google Drive
Downloads
Gallery
Photos
Dropbox
iTunes

[Todo]
Calendar
Clock
Keep

[Shop]
Calculator
Out of Milk
Barcode Scanner
Red Laser

[Office]
Office Mobile
QuickOffice
Kingsoft Office

[System]
Play Store
Settings
Battery Doctor
Clean Master
WiFi Analyzer
TeslaLED

[Security]
Lookout or AVG
Prey
Device Manager

[Anonymity]
Orbot
Orweb
ChatSecure
DuckDuckGo
Proxy Mobile Firefox Add-On

[TJ]

On 04/15/2014 11:56 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:

>
> If you know what some of these programs do,
> then please let the rest of us know, because I'd delete
> them in a heartbeat, if I could. I just can't.
>
Danny, next time remember: If you want to find out something, Google is
your friend.

TJ

[tlvp]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 08:56:36 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:

> DELETE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER BE USED:
> - Chrome (why need more than 1 single small quick secure browser?)

Never pass up the opportunity to have another browser -- you never know
when only *that* browser will open the site that keeps crashing your
preferred browser :-) .

Likewise, when out and about, never pass up the opportunity to use a loo --
you never know how long after you really need it the next one will turn up

:-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:01:06 +0000, Bob Martin wrote:

> If those apps constitute "bloatware" to you then
> clearly you neither want nor need a smart-phone.

Your point is well taken.

That list is just what came with the Nexus 5 and which
can't be moved or removed.

So, not all of it is bloat.

The phone isn't for me, but, many of those apps will
*never* be used. Plus, I had to *add* apps, to make
the phone functional for the gift recipient:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

If you have suggestions as to what free apps to *add*
in order to make the phone functional, please let me know.

Also, since all desktop shortcuts must go into a folder,
let me know what you consider a basic organizational
structure.

Here's that starting point for the organization that I'm
setting up on the new Nexus 5, to replace the kid's Optimus F3:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/13854479874_ccb9c07b48_b.jpg

[Brian Gregory]

On 08/04/2014 20:30, TJ wrote:
> You already know enough from painful experience. You already know that
> the more internal storage the better, and that the higher the stated
> capacity the higher the "true" user-available capacity as well. Therefore:
>
> 1. If you don't like the receiver, give 'em a 4GB phone. Doesn't matter
> what brand - none of them will have much user-available space. The
> frustration alone will make your feelings known.
>
> 2. If you don't care one way or the other, get a cheap 8GB phone. It may
> not have the greatest display, or run very fast, but at least the
> recipient will be able to install a fair number of apps.
>
> 3. If you like the person just OK, get a better-quality 8GB phone. The
> recipient will be able to install apps, and they should run well. They
> won't think any the less of you than they already do.
>
> 4. If you really like the person, get a 16GB phone of moderate quality.
> They'll appreciate receiving a non-frustrating, functional workhorse.
>
> 5. If you want to show off, buy the most expensive phone you can find.
> It won't be worth it, but you'll make an impression.
>
> See how easy that was?
>
> TJ

I'm finding a 16GB Android phone isn't enough for me.
I'll be looking for 32GB next time.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

[Your Name]

In article <***@giganews.com>, Brian
Gregory <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/2014 20:30, TJ wrote:
> > You already know enough from painful experience. You already know that
> > the more internal storage the better, and that the higher the stated
> > capacity the higher the "true" user-available capacity as well. Therefore:
> >
> > 1. If you don't like the receiver, give 'em a 4GB phone. Doesn't matter
> > what brand - none of them will have much user-available space. The
> > frustration alone will make your feelings known.
> >
> > 2. If you don't care one way or the other, get a cheap 8GB phone. It may
> > not have the greatest display, or run very fast, but at least the
> > recipient will be able to install a fair number of apps.
> >
> > 3. If you like the person just OK, get a better-quality 8GB phone. The
> > recipient will be able to install apps, and they should run well. They
> > won't think any the less of you than they already do.
> >
> > 4. If you really like the person, get a 16GB phone of moderate quality.
> > They'll appreciate receiving a non-frustrating, functional workhorse.
> >
> > 5. If you want to show off, buy the most expensive phone you can find.
> > It won't be worth it, but you'll make an impression.
> >
> > See how easy that was?
> >
> > TJ
>
> I'm finding a 16GB Android phone isn't enough for me.
> I'll be looking for 32GB next time.

If you can afford it, go higher to 64GB or maybe even 128GB by then -
always best to have more than not enough. :-)

Of course you can always just get an external storage drive (connected
via Bluetooth or wi-fi), online storage, or for some phones / external
storage drives use the SD Memory Card slot.

[nospam]

In article <040520141354460694%***@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<***@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >
> > I'm finding a 16GB Android phone isn't enough for me.
> > I'll be looking for 32GB next time.
>
> If you can afford it, go higher to 64GB or maybe even 128GB by then -
> always best to have more than not enough. :-)

the same can be said for money.

if someone doesn't need 64 gig of space, then they are better off with
not wasting money on it.

> Of course you can always just get an external storage drive (connected
> via Bluetooth or wi-fi), online storage, or for some phones / external
> storage drives use the SD Memory Card slot.

more idiocy.

nobody is going to want to drag around an external hard drive with
their phone all the time and they don't connect via bluetooth.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Danny D.:
>But, the question is:
> Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device?

- Root access (Ok, it's not an app...)

- CallControl (filters out telephone
solicitor calls)

- Automatic Call Recorder

- Skype

- TeamViewer

- TeamViewer Remote Support

- ES File Explorer

- Google Tasks Organizer (links to
GoogleTasks)

- DoggCatcher (podcasts... not in love
with it, but seems tb the only
game in town that actually works)

- SlingBox

- GSam Battery Monitor Pro

- Android Assistant

- mSecure (password/ID manager)

- MX Media Player

- Sygic GPS

- IP Cam Viewer

- Bria VOIP phone dialer (linked
to a prepaid account at CallCentric.com

- Waze (crowd-sourced traffic info)

- Kingsoft Office

- BitTorrentSync (to synchronize various
files among Android devices and PCs)

- Fing (network analyzer)

- WiFi Manager

- Osmand+ (map application)

- GoogleMaps

- GoogleEarth

- MyTracks (records GPS positions)

--
Pete Cresswell

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:53:56 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

>> Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device

Nice list.
Thank you for taking the time, and risk, of compiling it
so that we may ascertain what apps are "typical" to
a "standard" user such as you and me.

Your list has a LOT of commonality with mine, either
exactly, or with equivalent functionality. In fact,
I'd delete only 5 apps out of your list of almost
six times that number. So there is a lot of overlap!

That's a good thing...

These, we have exactly in common:
- Automatic Call Recorder
- Osmand+ (map application)
- GoogleMaps
- GoogleEarth
- MyTracks (records GPS positions)
- Skype

These, I can agree with are very useful to you and me:
- BitTorrentSync
- Root access (Ok, it's not an app...)
- ES File Explorer
- Google Tasks Organizer (links to GoogleTasks)
- GSam Battery Monitor Pro
- WiFi Manager
- mSecure (password/ID manager)
- MX Media Player
- CallControl (filters out telephone solicitor calls)
- Fing (network analyzer)

These, I would have to look up what function they perform:
- TeamViewer
- TeamViewer Remote Support
- SlingBox
- Android Assistant
- IP Cam Viewer

These I would never use (but thanks for this list!):
- DoggCatcher (podcasts) <== I've never watched a podcast ever
- Sygic GPS <=== very pretty, but very dumb in my experience
- Waze (crowd-sourced traffic info) <== is better than Maps traffic?
- Bria VOIP phone dialer <== it is understood why you'd use it
- Kingsoft Office <== Why not the "real" Microsoft Office?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Danny DiAmico:
>These, I would have to look up what function they perform:
>- TeamViewer
Allows the Android device to connect to PC's running same and see/use
a desktop on that PC.
Freebie.

>- TeamViewer Remote Support
Reverse of above. Allows a PC to bring up the Android device in
a window on the PC and operate it as if it were there. Primarily
for assisting somebody.
Freebie.

>- SlingBox
Connects to a SlingBox TV tuner. Enables Android user to view TV
TV shows tuned by the SlingBox anywhere in the world.
Can't recall the cost, but it was pricey...

>- Android Assistant
Tells what is running and how much of what resources each
running entity is using.
Can't recall if it's free or a couple bucks.

>- IP Cam Viewer
Allows Android device to view video streams from IP Cameras.
Couple bucks...
--
Pete Cresswell

[M.L.]

>>- Android Assistant
> Tells what is running and how much of what resources each
> running entity is using.
> Can't recall if it's free or a couple bucks.

Looks promising. The free version contains ads, like most Android
freeware. The ad-free version currently costs 99¢.

[Ivan The Not-So-Bad]

We have a lot of common apps that we use. The one thing we differ on here is
mSecure. I use KeePass/KeePassX. I think KeePass is an older, more stable
solution which is supported on all systems (mSecure doesn't seem to have a
Linux client, strangely enough), is free, has tons of plugins and is updated
constantly.

Check it out: http://keepass.info/

On 2014-04-08, (PeteCresswell) <***@y.Invalid> wrote:
> Per Danny D.:
>>But, the question is:
>> Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device?
>
> - Root access (Ok, it's not an app...)
>
> - CallControl (filters out telephone
> solicitor calls)
>
> - Automatic Call Recorder
>
> - Skype
>
> - TeamViewer
>
> - TeamViewer Remote Support
>
> - ES File Explorer
>
> - Google Tasks Organizer (links to
> GoogleTasks)
>
> - DoggCatcher (podcasts... not in love
> with it, but seems tb the only
> game in town that actually works)
>
> - SlingBox
>
> - GSam Battery Monitor Pro
>
> - Android Assistant
>
> - mSecure (password/ID manager)
>
> - MX Media Player
>
> - Sygic GPS
>
> - IP Cam Viewer
>
> - Bria VOIP phone dialer (linked
> to a prepaid account at CallCentric.com
>
> - Waze (crowd-sourced traffic info)
>
> - Kingsoft Office
>
> - BitTorrentSync (to synchronize various
> files among Android devices and PCs)
>
> - Fing (network analyzer)
>
> - WiFi Manager
>
> - Osmand+ (map application)
>
> - GoogleMaps
>
> - GoogleEarth
>
> - MyTracks (records GPS positions)
>

[tlvp]

On 23 Apr 2014 16:44:55 GMT, Ivan The Not-So-Bad wrote:

> We have a lot of common apps that we use. The one thing we differ on here is
> mSecure. I use KeePass/KeePassX. I think KeePass is an older, more stable
> solution which is supported on all systems (mSecure doesn't seem to have a
> Linux client, strangely enough), is free, has tons of plugins and is updated
> constantly.
>
> Check it out: http://keepass.info/

I've not yet entrusted my digital life to an automated password keeper --
if I lose it, or if it just dies an electrical death (several thumbdrives
I've had have done just that, becoming useless little chunks of landfill),
my digital life is over.

Do you keep a pen-and-ink transcript somewhere of all that your KeePass[X]
maintains for you? or some other human-readable record?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Lewis]

In message <sue9q9byvt0m$.2e64qf2nqzvj$***@40tude.net>
tlvp <***@att.net> wrote:
> On 23 Apr 2014 16:44:55 GMT, Ivan The Not-So-Bad wrote:

>> We have a lot of common apps that we use. The one thing we differ on here is
>> mSecure. I use KeePass/KeePassX. I think KeePass is an older, more stable
>> solution which is supported on all systems (mSecure doesn't seem to have a
>> Linux client, strangely enough), is free, has tons of plugins and is updated
>> constantly.
>>
>> Check it out: http://keepass.info/

> I've not yet entrusted my digital life to an automated password keeper --
> if I lose it, or if it just dies an electrical death (several thumbdrives
> I've had have done just that, becoming useless little chunks of landfill),
> my digital life is over.

There are at least a dozen copies of my 1Password file. Most are current
as of a few minutes ago. A few are backups going a bit further back in
time.

It would take a end-of-the-world event for me to lose access to all of
them.

They are stored on iCloud, Dropbox, google drive, and copy.com, as well
as on my iPads and iPhone and all the computers in the house.

--
Gehm's Corollary to Clarke's law: Any technology distinguishable from
magic is insufficiently advanced.

[tlvp]

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 05:34:46 +0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

>> I've not yet entrusted my digital life to an automated password keeper --
>> if I lose it, or if it just dies an electrical death (several thumbdrives
>> I've had have done just that, becoming useless little chunks of landfill),
>> my digital life is over.
>
> There are at least a dozen copies of my 1Password file. Most are current
> as of a few minutes ago. A few are backups going a bit further back in
> time.
>
> It would take a end-of-the-world event for me to lose access to all of
> them.
>
> They are stored on iCloud, Dropbox, google drive, and copy.com, as well
> as on my iPads and iPhone and all the computers in the house.

I see. Thanks. Those remote access places are not for me. I remember the
t-Mobile/Microsoft/Sidekick/Danger fiasco of a few years ago; and I'm aware
of the changes one of the MS OneDrive services makes to files it archives.

But I guess copies on spare thumb drives, floppies, phones, tablets, etc.,
could work out for me :-) . So thanks again for your ideas. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[tlvp]

On Tue, 8 Apr 2014 17:06:28 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

>
> ... question is:
> Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device?

1) Kindle for Android;
2) Sophos AntiMalware; and
3) One of the free streetmaps softwares discussed here earlier.

That's about it. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Danny DiAmico]

On Tue, 8 Apr 2014 23:48:47 -0400, tlvp wrote:

> 3) One of the free streetmaps softwares discussed here earlier.

I've tested them all, and, for free offline use,
the combination of Navigator & CoPilot can't be beat.
Of course, they take up a lot of space, but, I think
the maps should be downloadable to the sdcard.

If you have a good data plan, and if you never go far
from cellular signal, then the simpler map solution
of just Google Maps works without any need to download
anything extra, ahead of time, to the sdcard.

If you *plan* on going far from cell signal within
the next 30 days, and you *know* where you will be,
then, even without data, the offline content from
"OK MAPS" will work just fine with Google Maps.
(But Google will delete it in 30 days.)

[Danny D.]

According to this news article today, the following dozen apps are forced
onto the phone by Google:
Google uses secret Android deals for illegal search monopoly, lawsuit claims
https://gigaom.com/2014/05/01/google-used-secret-android-deals-for-illegal-search-monopoly-lawsuit-claims/

Set-up Wizard,
Google Phone-top Search,
Gmail,
Google Calendar,
Google Talk,
YouTube,
Google Maps for Mobile,
Google Street View,
Contact Sync,
Android Market Client (not products downloaded from Android Market),
Google Voice Search, and
Network Location Provider.


Danny D. wrote, on Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:06:28 +0000:

> In another thread, it was opined there was no such animal as a
> "Typical" Smartphone/Mobile Device User
>
> So, still trying to resolve how much "internal memory" is needed
> for the purchase of Android/iOS mobile devices to be used as gifts,
> if I try to answer the question of:
> "What apps do YOU typically wish to add?"
> I can then add up the sizes, to determine how much memory is needed
> for a typical gift.
>
> To start this off, I'll list below the apps I've added to "my"
> mobile device, and I ask you to add whatever I've missed below:
>
> A backup app (e.g., Helium)
> A barcode scanner (e.g., Barcode Scanner)
> A car finder (e.g., Find My Car)
> A checking-account manager (e.g., Mint)
> A dashcam recorder (e.g., DashCam)
> A document markup app (e.g., Skitch)
> A document scanner/pdf/ocr app (e.g., CamScanner)
> A drawing app (e.g., Paper Artist)
> A file navigator (e.g., ES File Explorer)
> A fitness calorie counter (e.g., MyFitnessPal)
> A flashlight app (e.g., TeslaLED)
> A gas station price finder app (e.g., GasBuddy)
> A grocery list app (e.g., Out of Milk)
> A level app (e.g., Power Bubble Spirit Level)
> A memo program (e.g., Inkpad)
> A memory manager (e.g., 1TapBoost)
> An alternative keyboard (e.g., Swype)
> An anonymity browser (e.g., Orbot)
> An anonymity search engine (e.g., DuckDuckGo)
> An anti-virus scanner (e.g., Avast!)
> An app killer/task manager (e.g., TasKiller Free)
> An app manager (e.g., Clean Master)
> An automatic call recorder (e.g., Automatic Call Recorder)
> An Excel viewer (e.g., Excel)
> An FM radio app (e.g., TuneIn Radio)
> An history eraser (e.g., History Eraser)
> An installer hierarchy (e.g., FDroid)
> An Internet app to remotely control your PC (e.g., TeamViewer)
> An offline backcountry mapping/tracking (e.g., My Tracks)
> An offline document browser (e.g., Pocket)
> An offline language translator (e.g., Google Translate)
> An offline map when cell signal is dodgy (e.g., Navigator)
> A PDF reader (e.g., Adobe Reader)
> A photo editor (e.g., Pixir Express)
> A power minder (e.g., Battery Doctor)
> A PowerPoint viewer (e.g., PowerPoint)
> A screen recorder (e.g., ScreeenREC)
> A social-networking app (e.g., LinkedIn)
> A speech-to text stenographer (e.g., Speech To Text)
> A streaming music app (e.g., Songza)
> A task manager app (e.g., "Tasks")
> A terminal emulator (e.g., Terminal Emulator)
> A VOIP app (e.g., Viber)
> A weather app (e.g., The Weather Channel)
> A WiFi discovery app (e.g., InSSIDer)
> A Word viewer (e.g., Word)
> A hands-free voice-controller app (e.g., Dragon Mobile Assistant)
> A caller-id white-pages lookup app (e.g., Current Caller ID)
> etc
>
> But, the question is:
> Q: What apps do you ADD to your mobile device?

[Your Name]

In article <ljv7ul$ubf$***@news.albasani.net>, Danny D.
<***@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> According to this news article today, the following dozen apps are forced
> onto the phone by Google:
> Google uses secret Android deals for illegal search monopoly, lawsuit claims
>
> https://gigaom.com/2014/05/01/google-used-secret-android-deals-for-illegal-sea
> rch-monopoly-lawsuit-claims/
>
> Set-up Wizard,
> Google Phone-top Search,
> Gmail,
> Google Calendar,
> Google Talk,
> YouTube,
> Google Maps for Mobile,
> Google Street View,
> Contact Sync,
> Android Market Client (not products downloaded from Android Market),
> Google Voice Search, and
> Network Location Provider.


The first app every Android user loads is the "iPhone / iPad Skin" so
they can pretend they really bought an iPhone / iPad rather than some
junk pile they did buy. ;-)

[TJ]

On 05/02/2014 12:46 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> According to this news article today, the following dozen apps are forced
> onto the phone by Google:
> Google uses secret Android deals for illegal search monopoly, lawsuit claims
> https://gigaom.com/2014/05/01/google-used-secret-android-deals-for-illegal-search-monopoly-lawsuit-claims/
>
> Set-up Wizard,
> Google Phone-top Search,
> Gmail,
> Google Calendar,
> Google Talk,
> YouTube,
> Google Maps for Mobile,
> Google Street View,
> Contact Sync,
> Android Market Client (not products downloaded from Android Market),
> Google Voice Search, and
> Network Location Provider.
>
>
Jumping to conclusions again, Danny. The article is reporting on a
lawsuit where the plaintiff *alleges* that such deals exist.

At this point it's only an accusation. Nothing has been proven.

Suppose, for example, some woman who you dated last year sues you for
child support. Are we to assume, merely because a lawsuit has been
filed, that you actually *are* the deadbeat father of the child? Or
should we wait until the case is settled before making assumptions?

Come to think of it, the above assumes you are male, and that hasn't
been proven here, either. "Danny" could be applied to either gender. But
the point is still valid, even if you are a female.

Making assumptions on the basis of incomplete data is a bad idea.

TJ

[Chris Uppal]

Danny D. wrote:
> According to this news article today, the following dozen apps are forced
> onto the phone by Google:
> Google uses secret Android deals for illegal search monopoly, lawsuit
> claims
> https://gigaom.com/2014/05/01/google-used-secret-android-deals-for-illegal-search-monopoly-lawsuit-claims/

There may be agreements. Thay may even be secret. But I doubt if there's any
merit in the class action.

Vendors may agree to put Google apps on their devices, but there's nothing
anti-comptative about that. Not that I can see, anyway. It's not like price
fixing.

It'd be different, perhaps, if Google were "forcing" vendors to include Google
apps (a bit like MS "forcing" suppliers to include IE Explorer). But. The
only stick that Google has to "force" vendors into such agreements is that they
have to pass certain tests (I have no idea what they are) before they can use
the Google app store mechansm. That doesn't sound like a Very Big Stick to me.
The Amazon devices aren't certified and don't suffer (I assume -- why should
they bother). OTOH I think I recently saw that CyanogenMod /has/ been
certified, and they are hadly out to build Google monopolistic empire ;-)

-- chris