Why is there no terrorism in China?

[Omega]

China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?

This is why....

Where’s the national will to tackle terrorism?

SUDHINDRA KULKARNI
Posted online: Sunday, November 06, 2005 at 0000 hours IST

“There is no terrorism in China. Tell me one country today which is safer than
China and I invite you for lunch!’’ This confident assertion was by a person in
Shanghai, who was interviewed for the documentary China on the Rise telecast
last month on PBS, America’s acclaimed TV channel. What’s that got to do with
the subject of this column—namely, 29/10 in Delhi? A lot.

After terrorists killed 62 innocent persons in three blasts in the nation’s
capital, India is back to debating a painful issue. It pains that unsuspecting
citizens, shopping for Diwali and Eid, can be blown up in acts of bestiality
which, going by the name of the organisation that has claimed responsibility for
them, were carried out to promote ‘‘Islamic Revolution.’’ But that’s not the
only thing that pains. After all, neither cross-border terrorism nor the
‘Islamist’ tag that its perpetrators openly advertise, are new to us. It’s more
painful that India, the worst victim of this kind of terrorism globally, fails
to unite even in the face of repeated terrorist attacks. Look at the lack of
national consensus on how the Indian state should curb terrorism and protect the
lives of citizens, which is the primary responsibility of any state. If Chinese
cities are free of terrorism, the credit goes to China’s leaders, from Deng
Xiaoping downwards, who recognised the supreme importance of internal security
for social stability, and of social stability for China’s emergence as a strong
economic power—in Asia and globally. Do India’s rulers have a similar strategic
perspective? Do they realise, in the marrow of their bones, the criticality of
internal security for ensuring the safety and security of every Indian citizen
and also for making India a strong and prosperous nation? In short, do they, to
use the damning words of R.C. Lahoti, the outgoing CJI, have the ‘‘political
will to combat terrorism?’’

It’s escapism to say that we cannot follow the harsh ways of a totalitarian
state. Of course, China is not a democracy and a free society like ours. We can
be justifiably proud of this difference. However, can we justify a state of
affairs in which terrorists can secure hideouts, procure ration cards and
driving licences by paying bribes, and smuggle in weapons at ease? Can we be
blind to the gaping flaws in our criminal justice system that has a pathetic
record in convicting the culprits in cases of terrorist, Naxalite and
communalism-related crime? The manner in which the freedoms offered by our open
society are misused by those who, in their own ideologies, have no room for any
of those freedoms is truly brazen. But what’s more galling is the alacrity with
which terrorists and Naxalites receive sympathy and institutionalised support
from a vocal section of our intellectuals who shrilly complain that any action
by the state is repressive and violation of human rights. Whose human rights?

But this alone hasn’t weakened the Indian state’s response to terrorism. Recall
the manner in which the Congress, Communists and the rest of the opposition
politicised—and communalised—POTA during the NDA rule. In speech after campaign
speech in the 2004 parliamentary polls, Smt. Sonia Gandhi projected POTA as
‘‘anti-minorities.’’ At a rally organised by a Muslim organisation in New Delhi
in May, she described the repeal of POTA as fulfillment of a major poll promise
her party had made for the ‘‘welfare of minorities.’’ This kind of crass
minorityism has serious implications for our polity, but more specifically for
India’s internal security system. Post 29/10, we must be clear-sighted about
India’s war on terror. True, it is wrong to communalise terrorism. But isn’t it
equally wrong to communalise counter-terrorism measures? True, the extremists in
VHP who defame Islam or hold the entire Muslim community responsible for the
heinous acts of some irreligious persons must be condemned and curbed. or our
fight against terrorism should not weaken our efforts for communal harmony. But
isn’t it also condemnable if those in government think that taking strong
legislative steps to counter terrorism might alienate minority votes? If POTA
was defective and vulnerable to misuse, let’s have an improved law. But let’s
not legally cripple India’s anti-terror campaign.

It’s time we stopped viewing terrorism through the majority-minority prism, and
collectively recognised the primacy of India’s national security. Specifically,
this implies that the Prime Minister should invite the NDA— and NDA should not
spurn the invitation—to evolve a national consensus on fighting terrorism and
Naxalism. This consensus should be used for comprehensively strengthening
India’s internal security system, especially through police and judicial
reforms. For let’s make no mistake: without a strong national will to defeat
terrorism and Naxalism, the future holds grave dangers for India’s internal
security, social stability and all-round development.

(Write to ***@expressindia.com)

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=81430

---
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

[ray o'hara]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?
This is why....
Where's the national will to tackle terrorism?

who says china has no terrorism? the chinese? they are hardly a credible
source.
china executes close to 40,000 a year, that is a decades worth for the rest
of the world.
if the chinese admit 10 died from bird flu you can bet it is a 1000+.
nothing that regime says can ever be counted on to be accurate.

[Stuart Grey]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?
This is why....
Where’s the national will to tackle terrorism?
SUDHINDRA KULKARNI
Posted online: Sunday, November 06, 2005 at 0000 hours IST
“There is no terrorism in China. Tell me one country today which is safer than
China and I invite you for lunch!’’ This confident assertion was by a person in
Shanghai, who was interviewed for the documentary China on the Rise telecast
last month on PBS, America’s acclaimed TV channel. What’s that got to do with
the subject of this column—namely, 29/10 in Delhi? A lot.

< snip >

The Chinese DO have a terrorist problem. However, they never let it
known to the outside world, and they never let it known what draconian
methods they use to keep their moslems in line.

Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

[i2p6 west]

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

For oil, and Israel.


(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

[Gunner Asch]

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.

Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

[the seventh sign]

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Actually Gunner the person is right to a degree.
We trained these arse wipes to commit terrorism against Russia invading
army during the Russia vs Afghanistan war now they are using the same
tactics against us and the rest of the world.

We can blame a Bush for that too during the carter administration and
during the Regan administration he woke up to the fact these Muslims are
not the good guys.

an old proverb that keeps biting us all in the arse is this
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
if people were to stop trying this idea they would see the enemy for
what it is.

tss

[Omega]

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 04:50:36 -0500, the seventh sign
<***@internet.now> wrote:

|Gunner Asch wrote:
|> On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:09:46 -0800, i2p6 west <***@rr.net> wrote:
|>
|>> Stuart Grey wrote:
|>>> Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
|>>> Europe.
|>> There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
|>> that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
|>> to live. For decades.
|>>
|>> For oil, and Israel.
|>>
|>>
|>> (Yes, I Blame America First(tm))
|>
|> You are a buffoon.
|>
|> Gunner
|>
|>
|> "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
|> Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
|> off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
|> them self determination under "play nice" rules.
|>
|> Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
|> for torturing the cat." Gunner
|
|Actually Gunner the person is right to a degree.
|We trained these arse wipes to commit terrorism against Russia invading
|army during the Russia vs Afghanistan war now they are using the same
|tactics against us and the rest of the world.
|
|We can blame a Bush for that too during the carter administration and
|during the Regan administration he woke up to the fact these Muslims are
|not the good guys.
|
|an old proverb that keeps biting us all in the arse is this
|"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
|if people were to stop trying this idea they would see the enemy for
|what it is.
|
|tss

You make an assumption that is basically untrue. We did not train ALL Muslims.
We worked with a handful of Afghanistan rebels who fought the USSR. However
those individuals were conquered by the forces of bin Laden and became the
Northern Alliance which opposed the Tailban.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, many are victims. We have avoided helping what
is now the Jihadist Militants.

---
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

[Pope Secola VI]

Snipped all the bull shit.
The subject line shows the writer is a complete idiot. Ask your self
why the western areas of China are off limits for most travelers. Could
it be that there is an active moslem insurgency going on??? China is
having all kinds of problems with minority populations in western China.

[Tank Fixer]

In article <***@corp.supernews.com>,
on Mon, 07 Nov 2005 04:50:36 -0500,

Post by the seventh sign
We trained these arse wipes to commit terrorism against Russia invading
army during the Russia vs Afghanistan war now they are using the same
tactics against us and the rest of the world.

You show a limited understanding of the tactics employed both currently and by
the Afghan's during their struggle to oust the Soviets.

[Stuart Grey]

Post by the seventh sign

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not
just Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Actually Gunner the person is right to a degree.

No, i2p6 isn't. He said nothing that was correct.

Post by the seventh sign
We trained these arse wipes to commit terrorism against Russia invading
army during the Russia vs Afghanistan war now they are using the same
tactics against us and the rest of the world.

Yes. We did train them to be terrorist during the Carter administration,
and they were supported by the Reagan administration. And we instructed
them to not just attack in Afghanistan, but to go after innocent Russian
citizens.

Prior to this, there were a number of terrorist groups that were
supported or sponsored by the Soviets that worked against the United
States and the allies of the United States.

Post by the seventh sign
We can blame a Bush for that too during the carter administration and
during the Regan administration he woke up to the fact these Muslims are
not the good guys.

Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

Post by the seventh sign
an old proverb that keeps biting us all in the arse is this
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
if people were to stop trying this idea they would see the enemy for
what it is.
tss

[George Z. Bush]

Post by Stuart Grey
Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

If that's the case, why do you and your buddies continue to blame Clinton for
not having an exit strategy for getting out of Iraq when he wasn't the one who
took us into Iraq? I can only conclude that the reason for that is that you're
all irrational.

It's hell when your own words bite you in the ass, isn't it.

George Z.

[Stuart Grey]

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

If that's the case, why do you and your buddies continue to blame Clinton for
not having an exit strategy for getting out of Iraq when he wasn't the one who
took us into Iraq?

(I noticed that you suddenly decided to change the subject! From who is
to blame from the issue of who was to blame for the rise of the
terrorist to something totally different.)

I've never seen any of my buddies, or even people who are not my
buddies, blame Clinton for not having an exit strategy for getting out
of Iraq.

Now, I've seen a few point out that Clinton was a complete idiot in
Somilia, what with his trying to treat the war lords with kit gloves.

I seen people point out that Clinton was an idiot and actually threw in
with the WRONG SIDE in Kosovo.

But I've never seen anyone blame Clinton for not having a plan for
leaving Iraq... Until now.

You must understand, that until you can back this claim of yours up, I'm
going to strongly suspect that you've just made it up, that it isn't
true, and you're bullshitting me.

Post by George Z. Bush
I can only conclude that the reason for that is that you're
all irrational.
It's hell when your own words bite you in the ass, isn't it.

My words? Prove that.

[George Z. Bush]

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

If that's the case, why do you and your buddies continue to blame Clinton for
not having an exit strategy for getting out of Iraq when he wasn't the one
who took us into Iraq?

(I noticed that you suddenly decided to change the subject! From who is
to blame from the issue of who was to blame for the rise of the
terrorist to something totally different.)

When the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly it's indigestible. Thanks for
providing my laugh of the day.

Post by Stuart Grey
I've never seen any of my buddies, or even people who are not my
buddies, blame Clinton for not having an exit strategy for getting out
of Iraq.

You just haven't looked.....you've blamed him for everything else that's gone
wrong with the government he handed over to Bush.

Post by Stuart Grey
Now, I've seen a few point out that Clinton was a complete idiot in
Somilia, what with his trying to treat the war lords with kit gloves.

Yes, and have you noticed that, five years later, Bush still hasn't even
addressed the fact that Somalia is still a non-functioning nation where cruise
ships passing their coastline a hundred miles offshore are attacked by Somali
pirates. That sorry country is in the hands of the same competing war lords who
Clinton tried unsuccessfully to get rid of so that they could function as a
nation, one that might have been our friend. Apparently it's not worth Bush's
attention, since they have no oil or anything else that we want.

Post by Stuart Grey
I seen people point out that Clinton was an idiot and actually threw in
with the WRONG SIDE in Kosovo.

Sure, that's why they're enjoying a relatively peaceful existence these days.
Those people who point couldn't find their own behinds if they had a hand on
each cheek.

Post by Stuart Grey
But I've never seen anyone blame Clinton for not having a plan for
leaving Iraq... Until now.
You must understand, that until you can back this claim of yours up, I'm
going to strongly suspect that you've just made it up, that it isn't
true, and you're bullshitting me.

Why should I bother....you wouldn't believe a word I said by way of providing
proof even if I did offer it? Anyway, whatever the situation is, you can be
sure that I wouldn't bullshit you any more than Bush bullshits the American
public.

George Z.

[Stuart Grey]

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

If that's the case, why do you and your buddies continue to blame Clinton for
not having an exit strategy for getting out of Iraq when he wasn't the one
who took us into Iraq?

(I noticed that you suddenly decided to change the subject! From who is
to blame from the issue of who was to blame for the rise of the
terrorist to something totally different.)

When the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly it's indigestible. Thanks for
providing my laugh of the day.

You run away from a subject, and laugh about it when the abrupt change
is noticed and you're spotted as trying to make a different foolish
argument, having given up on the first.

A Pretend victory.

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
I've never seen any of my buddies, or even people who are not my
buddies, blame Clinton for not having an exit strategy for getting out
of Iraq.

You just haven't looked.....you've blamed him for everything else that's gone
wrong with the government he handed over to Bush.

it would have been easy for you to give a few cites, quote a few of "my
buddies". You didn't, and I believe the reason why you've not done so is
because your claims are fiction.

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Now, I've seen a few point out that Clinton was a complete idiot in
Somilia, what with his trying to treat the war lords with kit gloves.

Yes, and have you noticed that, five years later, Bush still hasn't even
addressed the fact that Somalia is still a non-functioning nation where cruise
ships passing their coastline a hundred miles offshore are attacked by Somali
pirates.

Somalia isn't a nation, it is a shithole. The people there like it being
a shithole. You can't help people like that. You would blame Bush
because Clinton stupidly tried to make it NOT a shithole? Mind you, the
discussion is about the stupidity of blaming Bush for things Clinton has
done. You made a FALSE tu quequo argument, and then affirmed once again
your stupidity in blaming leaders who didn't take power until well after
the event in question.

Post by George Z. Bush
That sorry country is in the hands of the same competing war lords who
Clinton tried unsuccessfully to get rid of so that they could function as a
nation, one that might have been our friend. Apparently it's not worth Bush's
attention, since they have no oil or anything else that we want.

No, it is not worth our attention. Feel free to get your rifle and go
and make it into your paradise.

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
I seen people point out that Clinton was an idiot and actually threw in
with the WRONG SIDE in Kosovo.

Sure, that's why they're enjoying a relatively peaceful existence these days.
Those people who point couldn't find their own behinds if they had a hand on
each cheek.

Your support of ethnic cleansing is noted. One wonders if you support
ethnic cleansing in Europe to remove Moslems when the non-moslems out
number them.

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
But I've never seen anyone blame Clinton for not having a plan for
leaving Iraq... Until now.
You must understand, that until you can back this claim of yours up, I'm
going to strongly suspect that you've just made it up, that it isn't
true, and you're bullshitting me.

Why should I bother....

Because you're obviously a liar, and cannot.

Post by George Z. Bush
you wouldn't believe a word I said by way of providing
proof even if I did offer it?

Give quotes. Look them up on Google. If I can look them up too, then
you're obviously telling the truth.

Post by George Z. Bush
Anyway, whatever the situation is, you can be
sure that I wouldn't bullshit you any more than Bush bullshits the American
public.

Another change of subject, after getting your butt kicked on this one.

So, are you an intellectual coward, or do you have attention deficit
disorder?

Post by George Z. Bush
George Z.

[George Z. Bush]

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush
When the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly it's indigestible. Thanks for
providing my laugh of the day.

You run away from a subject, and laugh about it when the abrupt change
is noticed and you're spotted as trying to make a different foolish
argument, having given up on the first.
A Pretend victory.

Yep.....I learned to do it watching you guys. Works for you and it works for
me.

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
I've never seen any of my buddies, or even people who are not my
buddies, blame Clinton for not having an exit strategy for getting out
of Iraq.

You just haven't looked.....you've blamed him for everything else that's gone
wrong with the government he handed over to Bush.

it would have been easy for you to give a few cites, quote a few of "my
buddies". You didn't, and I believe the reason why you've not done so is
because your claims are fiction.

The reason I haven't done it is because it obviously causes you heartburn when I
don't. Besides, there's no way on earth that I'd want to make anything easy for
you.

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Now, I've seen a few point out that Clinton was a complete idiot in
Somilia, what with his trying to treat the war lords with kit gloves.

Yes, and have you noticed that, five years later, Bush still hasn't even
addressed the fact that Somalia is still a non-functioning nation where
cruise ships passing their coastline a hundred miles offshore are attacked
by Somali pirates.

Somalia isn't a nation, it is a shithole. The people there like it being
a shithole. You can't help people like that. You would blame Bush
because Clinton stupidly tried to make it NOT a shithole? Mind you, the
discussion is about the stupidity of blaming Bush for things Clinton has
done. You made a FALSE tu quequo argument, and then affirmed once again
your stupidity in blaming leaders who didn't take power until well after
the event in question.

Yeah, I know it's a shithole and not a nation. I think I just said that in my
last posting. The people there like it being a shithole? How in God's name
could you possibly know that? You're trying to make me believe that you're in
touch with them? That'll happen about the time hell freezes over.

Clinton stupidly tried to make it NOT a shithole? You don't even know enough to
keep your mouth shut and thus be able to avoid displaying your missing brains
when you open it. I'll bet you don't even remember why we were there in the
first place, do you.

There was a famine in Somalia in 1992 and the US headed an international effort
to try to help relieve some of the misery that was there. It was a humanitarian
effort on our part.....or are you saying that because Clinton was involved we
shouldn't even have tried? Maybe you've forgotten that America historically has
always responded to humanitarian crises in other countries.

Why don't you read up on it a little and maybe save yourself some embarrassment
by knowing what you're talking about before you run your mouth and give yourself
away. Here---I'll even save you the trouble of looking for it:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cuny/laptop/somalia.html

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush
That sorry country is in the hands of the same competing war lords who
Clinton tried unsuccessfully to get rid of so that they could function as a
nation, one that might have been our friend. Apparently it's not worth
Bush's attention, since they have no oil or anything else that we want.

No, it is not worth our attention. Feel free to get your rifle and go
and make it into your paradise.

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
I seen people point out that Clinton was an idiot and actually threw in
with the WRONG SIDE in Kosovo.

Sure, that's why they're enjoying a relatively peaceful existence these days.
Those people who point couldn't find their own behinds if they had a hand on
each cheek.

Your support of ethnic cleansing is noted. One wonders if you support
ethnic cleansing in Europe to remove Moslems when the non-moslems out
number them.

Our intervention in Kosovo had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. That issue
surfaced when Yugoslavia first started disintegrating, and the Serbs had the
dubious credit for doing it to their Muslim neighbors in Slovenia, Croatia, and
Bosnia, and they continued to do it in Kosovo. Their Prime Minister is now
resting his Serbian ass in a Dutch prison and will probably stay there until he
ends up in a box ready to feed the worms.

I not only did not support ethnic cleansing in any part of Yugoslavia, but I had
family who suffered the results of German ethnic cleansing during WWII, and I
take your suggestion as a personal insult, the likes of which could be expected
only from the vilest kind of what passes for human beings.

Excuse me, but dealing with you makes it necessary for me to wash up after being
exposed to all of the filth you bring to the table.

Incidentally, you may or may not notice it, but this conversation (which
conversation always requires two to tango) is now over. Your knee jerk
response, which I'm sure you can't resist adding to the cyberbabble that goes
on in this place, shall go unread by me.

George Z.

[Stuart Grey]

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by George Z. Bush
When the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly it's indigestible. Thanks for
providing my laugh of the day.

You run away from a subject, and laugh about it when the abrupt change
is noticed and you're spotted as trying to make a different foolish
argument, having given up on the first.
A Pretend victory.

Yep.....I learned to do it watching you guys. Works for you and it works for
me.

I see, you are a parrot, you ape the process of an actual discussion,
but you don't have a clue as to how reasoning works. You are very
amusing, sort of like... a monkey.

< snip drivel >

Some leftist at least have a point sorry though it may be. You don't.

[Gunner]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:29:17 -0500, "George Z. Bush"

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Stuart Grey
Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

If that's the case, why do you and your buddies continue to blame Clinton for
not having an exit strategy for getting out of Iraq when he wasn't the one who
took us into Iraq? I can only conclude that the reason for that is that you're
all irrational.
It's hell when your own words bite you in the ass, isn't it.
George Z.

And the exit strategy for Haiti, Bosnia, Somalia, and so forth were
what again? And we still have troops stationed in Germany, and Japan
of course..so we can blame FDR for not having an exit strategy for
WW2. Correct?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

[the seventh sign]

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by the seventh sign

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not
just Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Actually Gunner the person is right to a degree.

No, i2p6 isn't. He said nothing that was correct.

Post by the seventh sign
We trained these arse wipes to commit terrorism against Russia
invading army during the Russia vs Afghanistan war now they are using
the same tactics against us and the rest of the world.

Yes. We did train them to be terrorist during the Carter administration,
and they were supported by the Reagan administration. And we instructed
them to not just attack in Afghanistan, but to go after innocent Russian
citizens.
Prior to this, there were a number of terrorist groups that were
supported or sponsored by the Soviets that worked against the United
States and the allies of the United States.

Post by the seventh sign
We can blame a Bush for that too during the carter administration and
during the Regan administration he woke up to the fact these Muslims
are not the good guys.

Blame Bush? Is that a joke? No rational person would blame Bush for acts
taken long before he became president.

Post by the seventh sign
tss

Yes you can blame the carter aminstrations CIA DIRECTOR before he became
president George Bush (regan's ex VP and one time president G.W.Bush's
Daddy.) (During the Carter Administration's there were Americans being
held hostage by Iran. There was a badly botched rescue op that the army
tried that had several people killed and ended in dismal failure. Where
was CIA intelligence in this venture?)

Post by Stuart Grey

Post by the seventh sign
An old proverb that keeps biting us all in the arse is this
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
if people were to stop trying this idea they would see the enemy for
what it is.

TSS

[George Z. Bush]

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west
There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.

He may very well be, but don't you think the rest of us can't recognize that
without your help? What do you think you accomplish by name-calling, other than
to make yourself feel better and perhaps superior than your target?

George Z.

[Gio Medici]

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Gunner Asch

(i2p6 west)
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.
Gunner

He may very well be, but don't you think the rest of us can't recognize that
without your help? What do you think you accomplish by name-calling, other than
to make yourself feel better and perhaps superior than your target?
George Z.

Getting jumpy, isn't he? In Gunner's defense, he probably thought that
i2p6 west was me; TM-ing attitudes here being one of my creations.
Merely a knee-jerk reaction to having his sorry ass repeatedly nailed
to the wall in the warmonger hall of fame.

Gio

[redc1c4]

Gio Mediocre wrote:

(snipage occurs)

Post by Gio Medici
Merely a knee-jerk reaction to having his sorry ass repeatedly nailed
to the wall in the warmonger hall of fame.

that's an impressive fantasy world you've created for yourself skippy.

redc1c4,
yer a regular "legend in their own mind"... %-)

[Gio Medici]

Post by redc1c4
(snipage occurs)

Post by Gio Medici
Merely a knee-jerk reaction to having his sorry ass repeatedly nailed
to the wall in the warmonger hall of fame.

that's an impressive fantasy world you've created for yourself skippy.
redc1c4,
yer a regular "legend in their own mind"... %-)
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

<chink-fizz....roll.... clunkeedy-clunk...fizzzz.....> (the sound of
an OCS class being called to order by a pineapple).

Gio

"Kill a dog for Jesus!" tm

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 06:19:33 -0500, "George Z. Bush"

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west
There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.

He may very well be, but don't you think the rest of us can't recognize that
without your help? What do you think you accomplish by name-calling, other than
to make yourself feel better and perhaps superior than your target?
George Z.

Ah...George..I AM better and more superior to the buffoon.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

[George Z. Bush]

Post by Gunner Asch
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 06:19:33 -0500, "George Z. Bush"

Post by George Z. Bush

Post by Gunner Asch
You are a buffoon.

He may very well be, but don't you think the rest of us can't recognize that
without your help? What do you think you accomplish by name-calling, other
than to make yourself feel better and perhaps superior than your target?
George Z.

Ah...George..I AM better and more superior to the buffoon.
Gunner

In that case, all the more reason to show more restraint and class.

George Z.

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by Gunner Asch

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

You are a buffoon.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

The aide [to President Bush] said that guys like me were ''in
what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as
people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious
study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something
about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off.
''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he
continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
own reality. And while you're studying that reality --
judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new
realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will
sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will
be left to just study what we do.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ei=5088&en=6a9ce1d022952b10&ex=1255752000&partner=rssnyt&pagewanted=print&position=

http://tinyurl.com/6y5z3

[LeMod Pol]

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S. The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.
For oil, and Israel.
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

Of course you do because you are just another clueless
roadrunner with no grasp of the issues or the facts.

Consider that, this year, there have been a number of
trials in USA where muslims convicted of terrorism or
its support. At this moment, in a Tampa FL courtroom,
summations are commencing in the trial of ex USF
professor Sami al-Arian and 3 confederates.

Google the thread @ M-ID:***@regers.com
for the account of the trial + a link to all the details

Also go to www.jihadwatch.org/ for up to the minute
terrorism news. It was jihadwatch.org that tipped the
feds to al-Arian - the interview was read at the trial <G>

Back in 1968 I was attacked, with my cameraman, by a
bunch of well dressed young thugs when I presumed to
cover their public meeting in a major hotel. -- I was
the only reporter there - Which shows you why you and
your ilk are unaware of the objectives of the muslim jihad.

BTW- there certainly are two terrorist factions in China.

The prime terrorists in China are the soldiers of the
PRC army.
In the Far Western provinces variously known as
Sinkiang or Chinese Turkestan etc the predominately
muslim population has been giving the government in
Beijing fits - with help from a Central Asian offshoot
of the Muslim Brotherhood - Hizb ut-Tahrir - [financial
offices in London and Berlin].

--
LP

[Nothing] will pacify these current and
potential killers. The terror would
continue until the entire non-Islamic
world is under their control.

This is what they say in their sermons
and media, teach in their schools, and
believe in their hearts.

It matters little that "the overwhelming
majority of Muslims are not terrorists".

It matters a great deal that most
terrorists are Muslims. The sooner
Western leaders and Western media begin
stating what is obvious to most people;
the quicker the real root cause can be
dealt with."

[Stuart Grey]

Post by i2p6 west

Post by Stuart Grey
Moslem terrorist are a world wide problem, not just U.S. and not just
Europe.

There is no Moslem terrorism problem inside the U.S.

Due to the first World Trade Center attack and the subsequent
destruction of the WTC by moslem terrorist on 9/11, and the capture of a
Moslem terrorist at our border who intended to blow up the Space Needle
and LAX, you seem to be clearly and utterly wrong.

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

We don't tell them how to live, our leftist seduce them into decadent
ways with their advertising and hollywood movies.

Post by i2p6 west
For oil, and Israel.

If it was for oil, we would have just let Saddam keep kuwait, and bought
the oil from Saddam.

Post by i2p6 west
(Yes, I Blame America First(tm))

But, like all blame America firsters, you have no rational reason for
doing so.

[Gunner]

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

Ok..so if thats the reason for the terrorists hatred of the US...why
did they just break up (3) three terrorist cells in Austrialia, who
were intent on attacking Austrialia..and of course..how many Aussies
have died so far in Bali and so forth?

Is it because of their world wide empire?

Buffoon.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

[Stuart Grey]

Post by Gunner

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

Ok..so if thats the reason for the terrorists hatred of the US...why
did they just break up (3) three terrorist cells in Austrialia, who
were intent on attacking Austrialia..and of course..how many Aussies
have died so far in Bali and so forth?
Is it because of their world wide empire?
Buffoon.
Gunner

Not just Australia, but the Moslems have been conducting terrorism in
Israel, India, China, Russia, France, Germany, the UK, the Phillipines, ...

The entire "it's all America's fault for telling people how to live for
decades" is just absurd on the face of it. If so, then why are the
Moslems doing this to all those other countries, some which don't even
LIKE us?

The real reason is that they are doing this to advance Islam. What has
happened is that we buy oil from the Saudi, they use the money to build
fundamentalist Islam "schools" all over the Moslem world (including
France, the UK and the US, btw) and they teach hatred of the west in all
these schools, and advocate terrorist acts against the infidels.

This problem predates the United States' very existance by hundreds of
years, moslems have always preached hate towards infidels.

[Gio Medici]

Post by Gunner

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

Ok..so if thats the reason for the terrorists hatred of the US...why
did they just break up (3) three terrorist cells in Austrialia, who
were intent on attacking Austrialia..and of course..how many Aussies
have died so far in Bali and so forth?
Is it because of their world wide empire?
Buffoon.

You mean that the Aussies *said that they did the above.
That's as reliable as the claimed arrest of 'terrorists' by the US.

Gio

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by Gunner

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

Ok..so if thats the reason for the terrorists hatred of the US...why
did they just break up (3) three terrorist cells in Austrialia, who
were intent on attacking Austrialia..and of course..how many Aussies
have died so far in Bali and so forth?
Is it because of their world wide empire?

No, it's because Australia is a Coalition member. You go
sticking your hands in a hornet's nest and you get stung. But
you like trying to make the Middle East live YOUR way...

Oh, that's right, you need the oil.

--Jeff

[Gunner]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:42:16 -0500, Jeffrey Turner

Post by Jeffrey Turner

Post by Gunner

Post by i2p6 west
The problem is
that the U.S. is halfway around the world, telling other people how
to live. For decades.

Ok..so if thats the reason for the terrorists hatred of the US...why
did they just break up (3) three terrorist cells in Austrialia, who
were intent on attacking Austrialia..and of course..how many Aussies
have died so far in Bali and so forth?
Is it because of their world wide empire?

No, it's because Australia is a Coalition member. You go
sticking your hands in a hornet's nest and you get stung. But
you like trying to make the Middle East live YOUR way...
Oh, that's right, you need the oil.
--Jeff

Nope. Its because the Aussies are trying to build a world empire of
naked chicks, beer, and brawling. All of which are anithema to Islam.
So by Muslim reconing...the Aussies, like the US, are the Great Satan.
Which means no matter how much Chamberlianian compromising the Aussies
try, they are still dead meat. Unless they kill the Muslims first.

Now..if the Aussies simply consider the Muslims to be another form of
Abo...the problem will be solved in the not too distant future. They
will simply exterminate most of the Muslims

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

[Richard Lewis]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?

Because driving a tank over someone makes a great statement? Because
taking a guys' kidneys out prior to executing him "so they won't be
damaged" gets the point across? Could be a million reasons. ;)

ral

[pyotr filipivich]

It isn't that there isn't terrorism in China, but that it doesn't get
reported to the outside world.

toodles

[Offbreed]

Post by pyotr filipivich
It isn't that there isn't terrorism in China, but that it doesn't get
reported to the outside world.

Some of what really goes on.

http://english.epochtimes.com/index10.html

http://www.peacehall.com/news/gb/english/page1.shtml

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?

But I venture the challenging statement that if American
democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking
day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our
citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously
perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength
in our land. --Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[Stuart Grey]

Post by Jeffrey Turner
But I venture the challenging statement that if American
democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking
day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our
citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously
perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength
in our land. --Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Interesting line. Roughly, he is saying that we should move HIS
socialist programs forward, least the communist (or fascist) will move
foward.

Given that many people figured FDR for a closet commie because of his
socialist policies, his friendship with Stalin, and his hiding communist
and soviet agents in his administration, and that there was no
difference between what the treasonous communist wanted and what FDR
wanted, this is pretty funy.

We think we won the cold war. The face of our dime has a socialist on
it, a buddy of Joe Stalin. We honor only ONE man with a national
holliday, a known communist. And upon the passing of a communist
agitator, we let her body lie in state in the capital rotunda.

[TheAlligator]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?

China IS it's own terrorism. Wise up, monkey-boy.

[iceman]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?
This is why....
Where's the national will to tackle terrorism?
SUDHINDRA KULKARNI
Posted online: Sunday, November 06, 2005 at 0000 hours IST
"There is no terrorism in China. Tell me one country today which is safer
than
China and I invite you for lunch!'' This confident assertion was by a
person in
Shanghai, who was interviewed for the documentary China on the Rise telecast
last month on PBS, America's acclaimed TV channel. What's that got to do
with
the subject of this column-namely, 29/10 in Delhi? A lot.
After terrorists killed 62 innocent persons in three blasts in the
nation's
capital, India is back to debating a painful issue. It pains that unsuspecting
citizens, shopping for Diwali and Eid, can be blown up in acts of bestiality
which, going by the name of the organisation that has claimed
responsibility for
them, were carried out to promote ''Islamic Revolution.'' But that's not
the
only thing that pains. After all, neither cross-border terrorism nor the
'Islamist' tag that its perpetrators openly advertise, are new to us. It's
more
painful that India, the worst victim of this kind of terrorism globally, fails
to unite even in the face of repeated terrorist attacks. Look at the lack of
national consensus on how the Indian state should curb terrorism and protect the
lives of citizens, which is the primary responsibility of any state. If Chinese
cities are free of terrorism, the credit goes to China's leaders, from
Deng
Xiaoping downwards, who recognised the supreme importance of internal security
for social stability, and of social stability for China's emergence as a
strong
economic power-in Asia and globally. Do India's rulers have a similar
strategic
perspective? Do they realise, in the marrow of their bones, the criticality of
internal security for ensuring the safety and security of every Indian citizen
and also for making India a strong and prosperous nation? In short, do they, to
use the damning words of R.C. Lahoti, the outgoing CJI, have the
''political
will to combat terrorism?''
It's escapism to say that we cannot follow the harsh ways of a
totalitarian
state. Of course, China is not a democracy and a free society like ours. We can
be justifiably proud of this difference. However, can we justify a state of
affairs in which terrorists can secure hideouts, procure ration cards and
driving licences by paying bribes, and smuggle in weapons at ease? Can we be
blind to the gaping flaws in our criminal justice system that has a pathetic
record in convicting the culprits in cases of terrorist, Naxalite and
communalism-related crime? The manner in which the freedoms offered by our open
society are misused by those who, in their own ideologies, have no room for any
of those freedoms is truly brazen. But what's more galling is the alacrity
with
which terrorists and Naxalites receive sympathy and institutionalised support
from a vocal section of our intellectuals who shrilly complain that any action
by the state is repressive and violation of human rights. Whose human rights?
But this alone hasn't weakened the Indian state's response to terrorism.
Recall
the manner in which the Congress, Communists and the rest of the opposition
politicised-and communalised-POTA during the NDA rule. In speech after
campaign
speech in the 2004 parliamentary polls, Smt. Sonia Gandhi projected POTA as
''anti-minorities.'' At a rally organised by a Muslim organisation in New
Delhi
in May, she described the repeal of POTA as fulfillment of a major poll promise
her party had made for the ''welfare of minorities.'' This kind of crass
minorityism has serious implications for our polity, but more specifically for
India's internal security system. Post 29/10, we must be clear-sighted
about
India's war on terror. True, it is wrong to communalise terrorism. But
isn't it
equally wrong to communalise counter-terrorism measures? True, the extremists in
VHP who defame Islam or hold the entire Muslim community responsible for the
heinous acts of some irreligious persons must be condemned and curbed. or our
fight against terrorism should not weaken our efforts for communal harmony. But
isn't it also condemnable if those in government think that taking strong
legislative steps to counter terrorism might alienate minority votes? If POTA
was defective and vulnerable to misuse, let's have an improved law. But
let's
not legally cripple India's anti-terror campaign.
It's time we stopped viewing terrorism through the majority-minority
prism, and
collectively recognised the primacy of India's national security.
Specifically,
this implies that the Prime Minister should invite the NDA- and NDA should
not
spurn the invitation-to evolve a national consensus on fighting terrorism
and
Naxalism. This consensus should be used for comprehensively strengthening
India's internal security system, especially through police and judicial
reforms. For let's make no mistake: without a strong national will to
defeat
terrorism and Naxalism, the future holds grave dangers for India's
internal
security, social stability and all-round development.
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=81430
---
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

This is such a *good* question: but it seems from the answers people pretty
much fell for the false-flag of the Muslim terrorist.

Developing the Muslim as a patsie has been a long-term highly successful
project of both Israel and the USG. In part it was highly successful
because of the control of the monopoly press. For decades journalists had
known that to even suggest that an event was actually the Mossad at work, or
to point out there were no muslims present, etc.... was a career-killer, and
possibly a life-ender.

Personally, I doubt it would be very hard to find a seasoned journalist who
was privately pro-Israel, and my guess would be 80% of all terrorism is
orchestrated by the Mossad. Probably started with the Achili Lauro
incident, of throwing a jew in a wheelchair over the side of a cruise ship
way back when, and quicklym before any investigation could be started,
Israel supplied the "Palestinians" as the guilty.

That's always a tell-tale sign--when they provide the right people to blame
quickly--before the public has time to wonder.

In answer to your very excellent question, my thinking is the Mossad/US
can't get in there to set up a patsie or an event, so the Chinese Muslims
are safe from being used.

Did you know that most of the Israelis killed in "terrorist" attacks are
Arab Israelis? It's true. The Arab Israelis are heavy uses of the
buses--and who would be more likely to be gathered around a falafal
stand--Arabs or Jews? A friend was a staunch Zionist until she discovered
that Sharon's people started the Intefada-- It all really too bad. Such a
thorough job of blaming has been done, it will be generations before
"Muslims" will not be equated with a "terrorist", and they will be very
bitter.

[8ackgr0und N015e]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?
This is why....

ummm... wait a sec... I know this one.... oh.....I got it .....

"China controls the monopoly on it " for 20 points!!!!!

[Moderate Mammal]

Post by Omega
China has a large Islamic population in its northern provinces yet very little
terrorism. Why?

Actually, in the West of China the mooslums do in fact commit numerous
acts of terrorism. The Chinese media is full of propaganda
downplaying any events.

--
Keith

-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____

Forums to discuss news items of illegal immigration:

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org

http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/index.php

Indexes breaking news of illegal immigration:

http://idexer.com

Other important links:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.rescuewithoutborders.org/index.html
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

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