The LHO plan was simple

[claviger]

CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.

Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.

The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

[mainframetech]

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.

Chris

[claviger]

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Chris

That is your approach to this historic case, not mine. The fundamental
failure of Federal agencies involved in this important parade was lack of
cooperation and coordination with each other, and the local authorities.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Chris

Give him a break: he wasn't using his forehead/temple when he wrote it.

[Caeruleo]

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.

Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)

[mainframetech]

Post by Caeruleo

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.

Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)

Looks like you're still full of OPINIONS. Which count for nothing when
debating or arguing.

Chris

[Caeruleo]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Caeruleo
Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)

Looks like you're still full of OPINIONS.

Well, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black, since you are one
of the most opinionated humans I've ever encountered in my life, on the
internet or off of it. ;-)

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Caeruleo

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.

Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)

Looks like our government ignored the obvious.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it

What do you mean without anyone noticing? You think you have 2 witness
to him bringing in the bag.

Post by claviger
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually

Oh, OK, and you always look in your friend's bags? How rude.

Post by claviger
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not

It's not about decorating. It's about room darkening. I already told you
that I had the same problem and had to buy room darkening curtains for my
room in a rooming hous. And I was just a low wage blue collat worker. Not
all of can be millionaires living in mansions.

Post by claviger
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.

I did not have Venetian blinds.

Post by claviger
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,

No, it's none of his business.

Post by claviger
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two

Didn't anyone think it was a little weird for 2 or 3 other men to bring in
rifles to show up on the week that The President was due to visit Dallas?
And why could an assassin only shoot in Dealey Plaza? What about the
airport or San Antonio?

Post by claviger
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.

What possible threat? You mean General Walker or the JBS or the KKK or any
of the hundreds of people who had threatened the President? They didn't
have the man power to watch every kook.

Post by claviger
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could

They did. The police were stationed on the overpasses and at
intersections.

Post by claviger
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade

Feds? CIA did not share information. FBI could not find Oswald.

Post by claviger
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

And who would tell them that?

[bigdog]

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

[claviger]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.

At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.

Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.

All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.

Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.

I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.

Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.

He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.

[bigdog]

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.

Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.

I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.

20/20 hindsight.

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.

He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.

I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.

Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.

Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.

I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.

20/20 hindsight.

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.

He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.

I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.

Hosty quoting from the FBI report on Oswald:

Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"

Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?

Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.

You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.

Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

[John McAdams]

On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.

Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.

Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?

My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

The Gale report is pretty damning. Scapegoating agents still risks having
the FBI - Hoover - receive the brunt of the criticism. A smarter move -
and Hoover was notorious for worrying about the agency's image - would
have been to sweep it under the proverbial rug.

It seems to me we can keep two ideas in our heads: the FBI failed to
adequately keep track of Oswald AND those failures didn't cause the
assassination. Or as Hosty put it in his book, even if the agents followed
proper procedures, e.g., Oswald kept on the security index, the
assassination still would have occurred.

Still, given Oswald's fragile emotional makeup after his rejection by the
Cubans in MC I think a face-to-face meeting with Hosty might have raised
some red flags. Oswald did, I think, blame the agency for his
financial/job problems. He was a pretty desperate person by late October
1963.

Would this has stopped the assassination? Most likely not. The FBI and SS
didn't have much of a working relationship. At least based on Hosty's
account.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

The Gale report is pretty damning. Scapegoating agents still risks having
the FBI - Hoover - receive the brunt of the criticism. A smarter move -
and Hoover was notorious for worrying about the agency's image - would
have been to sweep it under the proverbial rug.
It seems to me we can keep two ideas in our heads: the FBI failed to
adequately keep track of Oswald AND those failures didn't cause the

Was it the FBI's job to keep track of Oswald? Is it the FBI's job to
keep track of every person in the world?

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
assassination. Or as Hosty put it in his book, even if the agents followed
proper procedures, e.g., Oswald kept on the security index, the
assassination still would have occurred.

That's right. People on the watch list are still allowed to assassinate
the President. Brilliant!

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Still, given Oswald's fragile emotional makeup after his rejection by the
Cubans in MC I think a face-to-face meeting with Hosty might have raised
some red flags. Oswald did, I think, blame the agency for his
financial/job problems. He was a pretty desperate person by late October
1963.
Would this has stopped the assassination? Most likely not. The FBI and SS
didn't have much of a working relationship. At least based on Hosty's
account.

Would not goingd to Dallas have stopped the assassination? Connally urged
JFK to Not come to Dallas.

[claviger]

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?

LHO was a hitman trying to make his bones by hiding in plain sight.
He talked the talk and walked the walk. He was making war on US
Capitalism in word and deed, just like his hero Fidel Castro did, who
was proud of his record as a sniper during the Cuban Revolución.

Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.

Yes the focus was on right-wingers. Here's a thought, why not request
help from local law enforcement for 30 volunteers to help sort through
and evaluate risk profiles? Basic info like where do the live and where
they work? That research alone might have saved President Kennedy.
I don't hate Hosty but he was the perfect FBI clone who could not think
outside the box. Did the FBI have a condescending ego toward all local
Law Enforcement officers? If so, that Federal arrogance may have been
a deadly mistake.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?

LHO was a hitman trying to make his bones by hiding in plain sight.
He talked the talk and walked the walk. He was making war on US
Capitalism in word and deed, just like his hero Fidel Castro did, who
was proud of his record as a sniper during the Cuban Revolución.

Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.

Yes the focus was on right-wingers. Here's a thought, why not request
help from local law enforcement for 30 volunteers to help sort through

Compartmentalization.

Post by claviger
and evaluate risk profiles? Basic info like where do the live and where
they work? That research alone might have saved President Kennedy.
I don't hate Hosty but he was the perfect FBI clone who could not think
outside the box. Did the FBI have a condescending ego toward all local
Law Enforcement officers? If so, that Federal arrogance may have been
a deadly mistake.

[claviger]

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

If there was no culpability why did Shanklin destroy the note from LHO?

Why did Chief Curry never mention the DPD knew LHO was passing out
Hands Off Cuba leaflets in downtown Dallas?

If both knew LHO was a Communist punk why not keep an eye on him
until the motorcade has safely passed the warehouse where he works
inside Dealey Plaza?

Curry blamed the FBI for not telling him about LHO and rightly so, but his
downtown patrol knew about him. I wonder if they ever told Curry before
or after the fact?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.

I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?

You also have to rember that the CIA was not sharing EVERYTHING with the
FBI. Sure, Hosty knew about the trip to Mexico, but he did not know that
Kostikov was the head of the KGB's asassinationdeprtment. Sources and
Methods.

Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
Too much work for one man.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering

You mean like the other TSBD employee who brought in his rifle to show
off? Are you forgetting that it was Take Your Rifle to Work Week?

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.

So, bringing something IN to the TSBD is theft?
If I take a pencil to the store and leave it there you call that
shoplifting?

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one

Are you trying to make Fraazier an accomplice the way Fritz did? Are you
suggesting conspiracy?

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the

So what? No proof for that.

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.

Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.

Reductio ad Absurdum. So you say the SS was unqualified to do their job. I
had a little visit from the SS and it didn't bother me at all. I was happy
to see them doing their jobs properly. I showed them my Carcano and they
did not take it away from me.

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.

Sources and Methods.

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.

What list? He was already on a Watchlist.

Post by bigdog
20/20 hindsight.

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.

He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in

Please show me the film of Oswald handing out FPCC flyers in Dallas.
I think you don't understand the difference between Dallas and New Orleans.

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both

Hosty tried and couldn't find him.

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.

I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There

Why not? Because the DPD were morons.

Post by bigdog
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.

[OHLeeRedux]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering

You mean like the other TSBD employee who brought in his rifle to show
off? Are you forgetting that it was Take Your Rifle to Work Week?

Another of Marsh's childish clichés to add to my list.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.

Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.

Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.

He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.

Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.

I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information

No. Secret Service, not FBI. FBI couldn't even find Oswald to question
him.

Post by claviger
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.

The FBI did not even tell the DPD that Oswald was back in Dallas.

Post by claviger
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.

Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.

Maybe threatening to blow up the FBI office. How many people had done
that?

<crickets>

Post by claviger
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI

Great info. Do you have any photos or films of Oswald having out FPCC
flyers in Dallas? Please post them.

Post by claviger
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a

Then why didn't they keep the other 400 suspects under surveillance?

Post by claviger
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

[bigdog]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.

[claviger]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.

These were found inside the Paine garage:
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/


Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________

After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

[claviger]

Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.

You're asking tough questions of the cover-up. How rude!

[claviger]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.

Sounds like LHO was trying to get attention from the media and anyone else
who would pay attention. Failing that, he asked the question: "What do I
need to do to make you people notice me, shoot the President?"

Sadly, the answer was yes.

All his life he was ignored as a nerdy little twerp. To the outside world
he was harmless even though he passed a rigorous Qualification process in
the USMC. Still he got no respect. While in the USSR he probably offered
his services to the KGB and they turned him down too.

The final rejection that sent him over the top was his trip to Mexico City
where both embassies gave him a double dose. So he came back to Dallas
angry at the world in a seething rage. His bad luck was about to change. A
final chance for revenge would be a double ambush to strike back at two
political enemies riding in the Presidential parade through downtown
Dallas. He would prove to all who rejected his services, that he could do
something the combined efforts of the Soviets and Castro could never do,
topple the extraordinarily popular Kennedy regime who blocked Communist
ambitions in the Caribbean region.

Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.

Sounds like LHO was trying to get attention from the media and anyone else
who would pay attention. Failing that, he asked the question: "What do I
need to do to make you people notice me, shoot the President?"
Sadly, the answer was yes.
All his life he was ignored as a nerdy little twerp. To the outside world
he was harmless even though he passed a rigorous Qualification process in
the USMC. Still he got no respect. While in the USSR he probably offered
his services to the KGB and they turned him down too.
The final rejection that sent him over the top was his trip to Mexico City
where both embassies gave him a double dose. So he came back to Dallas
angry at the world in a seething rage. His bad luck was about to change. A
final chance for revenge would be a double ambush to strike back at two
political enemies riding in the Presidential parade through downtown
Dallas. He would prove to all who rejected his services, that he could do
something the combined efforts of the Soviets and Castro could never do,
topple the extraordinarily popular Kennedy regime who blocked Communist
ambitions in the Caribbean region.
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.

You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
resources using slave labor.

JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

[bigdog]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
resources using slave labor.
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

In today's Democrat Party, JFK would be a pariah. He had softened the hard
line anti-Communist views he came to Washington with that allied him with
Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon, but he had not abandoned them. He believed
in supply side economics. He was a proud Life Member of the NRA. His views
on abortion are not clearly defined but his only SCOTUS appointee still on
the court when Roe v. Wade was handed down, Byron White, wrote the
dissenting opinion. He would have had to drastically alter his core
beliefs as Teddy did or he couldn't have been nominated to run for dog
catcher. Such views are no longer welcome in today's Democrat Party.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.

I think that's bad for growth.

Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but

Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart? But he also came up with
Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose. How about if you agree
to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural

EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?

Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.

They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare

And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.

Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National

Maybe, not always.

Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

Don't pretend to be an economist.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.

A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but

Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?

LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?

All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural

EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?

The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.

They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare

And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.

Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National

Maybe, not always.

President Kennedy thought so.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

Don't pretend to be an economist.

Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.

"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."

"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The

No one disputed that. Move on.

Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery

FYI. the South would NOT have collapsed. England would have propped it up.

Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union

What about England? They did away with slavery without a Civil War and
without bloodshed. The Confederacy might be the only State which went to
war to maintain slavery.

Post by claviger
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did

Maybe the starvation of millions was not a consequence but the design.

Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.

Yeah, I think we've been over this before. Production is one thing,
distribution is another.

The US produces huge amount of soy, but now wants to restrict the
distribution to starve China.

Cuba produced vast amounts of sugar cane, so the US burned their fields to
limit its distribution and hurt it financially.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The

No one disputed that. Move on.

Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery

FYI. the South would NOT have collapsed. England would have propped it up.

The history books I've read said the South had maybe a decade before the
plantation system would no longer be a viable economic model. England did
not support the South during the Civil War. They were neutral. France
may have lent support but had their own problems in Mexico.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union

What about England? They did away with slavery without a Civil War and
without bloodshed. The Confederacy might be the only State which went
to war to maintain slavery.

The Confederacy was the only State which went to war to maintain slavery
that lost. The North won their war to enslave Native Americans all the
way to the Pacific Ocean. They also enslaved the South during
Reconstruction.

The British won their war against the Zulu rebellion in South Africa and
the Boers. Belgium conquered the native tribes in the Congo.

One of the ironies of the US Civil War is the only race riots were in
Northern cities. The last Confederate General to surrender was Stand
Watie of the Cherokee Nation. The Choctaw also fought for the
Confederacy. The most unexpected statistic is the large number of Slaves
and Black Freedmen who fought for the Confederacy.

There were numerous rebellions in South America against Spain first, then
later against Mexico. Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, El
Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama once belonged to Mexico.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death.

Maybe the starvation of millions was not a consequence but the design.

Stalin was a native of Georgia, who had no friendly attachment to Russia.
Not sure he planned to starve the Russians but he simply didn't care. He
ordered them to hold their position against the Wehrmacht without weapons
or ammunition. Of course most of those unlucky Russians were slaughtered.
Stalin looked at it as fewer mouths to feed. Marina's mother despised
Stalin.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.

Yeah, I think we've been over this before. Production is one thing,
distribution is another.

The Russian farmers and peasants had no use for Communism so Stalin
had them liquidated. Whole villages were completely exterminated.
likvidirovat: close out, disposed of, kill, eliminate

Post by Anthony Marsh
The US produces huge amount of soy, but now wants to restrict the
distribution to starve China.

Starve China? How long have they depended on US soy production?

Post by Anthony Marsh
Cuba produced vast amounts of sugar cane, so the US burned their
fields to limit its distribution and hurt it financially.

Sugar cane fields are burned on a regular basis every year for
agricultural reasons.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.

A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.

WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK was
assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.

DUH!

JFK showed it with charts.

Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.

Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but

Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?

LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?

All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote. Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural

EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?

The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a

OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.

Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer

Do you have a book reference in mind?

Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the

What did Jesus say?

Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.

You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.

Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,

Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.

Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.

They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery

Interesting theory? Any [professor write about this?

Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did

Ya think!

Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.

There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare

And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.

Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?

Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??

Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?

HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National

Maybe, not always.

President Kennedy thought so.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

Don't pretend to be an economist.

Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,

You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware

Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.

Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.

Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.

See below.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!

I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or
inflation, so LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go
back to 1963 and pay 91% taxes.

A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.

WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and Kennedy
removed from office.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.

DUH!
JFK showed it with charts.

Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.

Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but

Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?

LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?

All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn’t happen until 1962.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural

EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?

The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a

OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.

Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer

Do you have a book reference in mind?

Most well known: The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,
by Edward Gibbon.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the

What did Jesus say?

We already discussed that.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.

You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.

No. Wished I had.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,

Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.

Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.

They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery

Interesting theory? Any professor write about this?

A few have and some historians are aware of this fact. No one talks
about it a lot because it does not reflect well on US History.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did

Ya think!

Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.

There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare

And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.

Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?

Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??

I thought everyone knew about that.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?

HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.

Wiretaps.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National

Maybe, not always.

President Kennedy thought so.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

Don't pretend to be an economist.

Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,

You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once I'm impressed!
Way to go!!

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware

Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.

Which books?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.

Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.

It's insurance, like a life insurance policy or an IRA.
My life insurance is also paid by current workers. I did not put $25,000
cash into it.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.

No, just people like you and the Koch brothers. For YOU I suggested that
you VOLUNTARILY pay 91%.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.

See below.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!

I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.

Sure, you can eat and and sleep at McDonalds. Is that the type of country
you want? Ever hear of the Great Depression? That's what you want while
the Koch Brothers have all the money?

And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or
inflation, so LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go
back to 1963 and pay 91% taxes.

A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.

WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original

Is that a book? Do you remember the title?

Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and Kennedy
removed from office.

I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

What teeth?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.

DUH!
JFK showed it with charts.

Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.

Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK. Fascism and
Liberalism are polar opposites.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but

Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?

LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

SHOW me which one you like the best.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?

All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote

Not that long ago. 2016.

Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.

Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family
tradition. Like the Adams family.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural

EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?

The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a

OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.

Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer

Do you have a book reference in mind?

Most well known: The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,
by Edward Gibbon.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the

What did Jesus say?

We already discussed that.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.

You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.

No. Wished I had.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,

Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.

Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.

They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.

We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery

Interesting theory? Any professor write about this?

A few have and some historians are aware of this fact. No one talks
about it a lot because it does not reflect well on US History.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did

Ya think!

Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.

There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare

And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.

Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?

Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??

I thought everyone knew about that.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?

HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.

Wiretaps.

In testimony.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National

Maybe, not always.

President Kennedy thought so.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.

Don't pretend to be an economist.

Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,

You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once I'm impressed!
Way to go!!

Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation in
Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income so
learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware

Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.

Which books?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.

Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.

It's insurance, like a life insurance policy or an IRA.
My life insurance is also paid by current workers.
I did not put $25,000 cash into it.

So hard working tax payers are providing you life insurance too.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.

No, just people like you and the Koch brothers. For YOU I suggested that
you VOLUNTARILY pay 91%.

That brings up a good point. No tax payer should ever pay more
than 10% in taxes. Liberals always want to spend the OPM, "other
people's money." Nothing in the Constitution prevents Liberals
from paying 50% or 91% of their own money to help the poor.

If the moral thing to do why do you need the Federal Government
to force you to do it? You as an arrogant condescending Liberal
should have been paying 50% all the years you had a job, but you
didn't do that did you? You want someone else to do it but not
yourself. How very Liberal of you.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address
anything I said.

See below.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!

I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.

Sure, you can eat and and sleep at McDonalds. Is that the type of country
you want?

McDonalds provides affordable food for everyone. When I was in college
we could buy 4 little burgers for a dollar.

Post by Anthony Marsh
Ever hear of the Great Depression?

My mother grew up dirt poor during "The Depression" as
she called it. She was part Choctaw and her father was a
day worker who went from farm to ranch looking for work
everyday.

The amazing thing, her family had a lot of pride and did not
expect the government to take care of them. They would
accept charity from friends and neighbors only if they could
work in return for the food and clothing donated by those
generous people. My mother said the only time she wore
shoes was to church or on a cold day to school. She never
felt sorry for herself because most people they knew were
in same situation.

In those days there was good envy and bad envy. Good envy
was "We want to work hard for everything we earn and have
some nice clothes and a car one day." Bad envy was jealousy
of other people doing well. That kind of envy was not tolerated
in her family, who considered jealousy a sickness they wanted
nothing to do with.

Post by Anthony Marsh
That's what you want while the Koch Brothers have all the money?

Actually the Federal Reserve has all the money because they print
all the money. Somehow or another it all comes back to them.
Now there is pretend money like Bitcoin.

I don't care how much money the Koch Brothers have, who worked
hard and took risks to earn all that money, the kind of risk takers
that made America a great place to live and work with the freedom
to spend their money anyway they please. That concept is called
Freedom of Choice. I know you think that means Abortion, but
Americans have Freedom of Choice everyday in every way.

Post by Anthony Marsh
And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?

If the free food is healthy and nutritious then no need for dining
out unless there is local restaurant who needs your support.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original

Is that a book? Do you remember the title?

Not sure it was a book or internet article. The idea was JFK was
assassinated for issuing US Government currency in competition
with the Fed.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and
Kennedy removed from office.

I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.

To finance "Lincoln's War" as one author put it, Lincoln had to borrow
heavily from wealthy Northern industrialists. Keep in mind Lincoln
was born in Kentucky and grew up in Illinois, so he was not from the
New England blue bloods or New York industrialists. The fact is they
considered him a country bumpkin.

One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

What teeth?

So high taxes rotted your teeth out. You are another tragic victim
of confiscatory taxation.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK.

However JFK had something to do with the Reagan Revolution.
Remember when President Reagan invited the Kennedy family
to the White House?

Post by Anthony Marsh
Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.

Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.

My understanding is many of those wealthy people are Movie Stars
who talk Liberal but hide their money offshore.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

SHOW me which one you like the best.

OK.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.

Maybe, but can they color between the lines?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote

Not that long ago. 2016.

Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.

Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.

Racism is a condescending attitude toward another race
of people, no matter what their skin color.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?

It was bankrupt when he got there thanks to all the thieves in
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family tradition.
Like the Adams family.

Bill Clinton second term with a Republican Congress
had a balanced budget which proves it can be done.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient.

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.

Yes they did and some even inherited part of the plantation they
worked on. The story no one talks about is former slaves who did
well as free men, who bought land and slaves to work it.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once
I'm impressed! Way to go!!

Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation
in Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income
so learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.

Gosh, you sound like a middle class kind of guy. How the heck did you
veer off the path of righteousness and become a whiny Liberal?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

You didn't answer this question.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future

Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.

He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.

Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?

You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your

Only because I am on Social Security.

Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it

Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.

Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.

It's insurance, like a life insurance policy or an IRA.
My life insurance is also paid by current workers.
I did not put $25,000 cash into it.

So hard working tax payers are providing you life insurance too.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.

So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.

No, just people like you and the Koch brothers. For YOU I suggested that
you VOLUNTARILY pay 91%.

That brings up a good point. No tax payer should ever pay more
than 10% in taxes. Liberals always want to spend the OPM, "other
people's money." Nothing in the Constitution prevents Liberals
from paying 50% or 91% of their own money to help the poor.
If the moral thing to do why do you need the Federal Government
to force you to do it? You as an arrogant condescending Liberal
should have been paying 50% all the years you had a job, but you
didn't do that did you? You want someone else to do it but not
yourself. How very Liberal of you.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.

Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address
anything I said.

See below.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government

Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.

You can't remember a lot of things.

SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!

I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.

Sure, you can eat and and sleep at McDonalds. Is that the type of country
you want?

McDonalds provides affordable food for everyone. When I was in college
we could buy 4 little burgers for a dollar.

Post by Anthony Marsh
Ever hear of the Great Depression?

My mother grew up dirt poor during "The Depression" as
she called it. She was part Choctaw and her father was a
day worker who went from farm to ranch looking for work
everyday.
The amazing thing, her family had a lot of pride and did not
expect the government to take care of them. They would
accept charity from friends and neighbors only if they could
work in return for the food and clothing donated by those
generous people. My mother said the only time she wore
shoes was to church or on a cold day to school. She never
felt sorry for herself because most people they knew were
in same situation.
In those days there was good envy and bad envy. Good envy
was "We want to work hard for everything we earn and have
some nice clothes and a car one day." Bad envy was jealousy
of other people doing well. That kind of envy was not tolerated
in her family, who considered jealousy a sickness they wanted
nothing to do with.

Post by Anthony Marsh
That's what you want while the Koch Brothers have all the money?

Actually the Federal Reserve has all the money because they print
all the money. Somehow or another it all comes back to them.
Now there is pretend money like Bitcoin.
I don't care how much money the Koch Brothers have, who worked
hard and took risks to earn all that money, the kind of risk takers

Worked Hard? Is that a joke?

Post by claviger
that made America a great place to live and work with the freedom
to spend their money anyway they please. That concept is called
Freedom of Choice. I know you think that means Abortion, but

No, it is called Citizen's United.

Post by claviger
Americans have Freedom of Choice everyday in every way.

Post by Anthony Marsh
And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?

If the free food is healthy and nutritious then no need for dining
out unless there is local restaurant who needs your support.

You were supposed to complain about my getting free food.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original

Is that a book? Do you remember the title?

Not sure it was a book or internet article. The idea was JFK was
assassinated for issuing US Government currency in competition
with the Fed.

Not sure it was it's own book. It's been in books and on the InterNet.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and
Kennedy removed from office.

I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.

To finance "Lincoln's War" as one author put it, Lincoln had to borrow
heavily from wealthy Northern industrialists. Keep in mind Lincoln
was born in Kentucky and grew up in Illinois, so he was not from the
New England blue bloods or New York industrialists. The fact is they
considered him a country bumpkin.
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

What teeth?

So high taxes rotted your teeth out. You are another tragic victim
of confiscatory taxation.

Interesting theory, but I never said my teeth rotted. They were pulled
out and I didn't have enough money for dentures.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK.

However JFK had something to do with the Reagan Revolution.
Remember when President Reagan invited the Kennedy family
to the White House?

And you think Reagan was inspired by JFK? You've got to stop drinking.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.

Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.

That's insane. Fascists and Nazis are always rightingers.
What you mean is True Conservatives want nothing to do with Trump.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?

Why haven't you taken my advise and voluntarily paid 91%?
No sense of Patriotism?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.

My understanding is many of those wealthy people are Movie Stars
who talk Liberal but hide their money offshore.

Brilliant counter-attack. Well, Trump was a star on TV, but he was not a
movie star.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

SHOW me which one you like the best.

OK.

You can never answer my questions.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.

Maybe, but can they color between the lines?

Better than you can.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote

Not that long ago. 2016.

Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.

Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.

Racism is a condescending attitude toward another race
of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?

It was bankrupt when he got there thanks to all the thieves in

So you aren't old enough to remember which President go rid of the debt.
What you said applies only to Trump.

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family tradition.
Like the Adams family.

Bill Clinton second term with a Republican Congress
had a balanced budget which proves it can be done.

But he was a Democrat. Are you caving in?

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient.

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.

Yes they did and some even inherited part of the plantation they
worked on. The story no one talks about is former slaves who did
well as free men, who bought land and slaves to work it.

Some people have talked about it. Maybe even on C-SPAN.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once
I'm impressed! Way to go!!

Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation
in Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income
so learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.

Gosh, you sound like a middle class kind of guy. How the heck did you

I grew up as a middle-class kid.

Post by claviger
veer off the path of righteousness and become a whiny Liberal?

Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing to
destroy our country.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

You didn't answer this question.

When, just now? I just saw it now. It was a small crack in a boulder.
Maybe a small animal or a person could squeeze through it, but not a
camel. His audience knew what Jesus meant.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
I don't care how much money the Koch Brothers have, who worked
hard and took risks to earn all that money, the kind of risk takers

Worked Hard? Is that a joke?

No joke. Read about successful Americans. Many came from abject poverty
and had nothing to lose. They worked very hard and often took extreme
risks to become successful and wealthy. Most people who are risk averse
might one day become prosperous but not rich. Wealth is reserved for gutsy
risk takers.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
that made America a great place to live and work with the freedom
to spend their money anyway they please. That concept is called
Freedom of Choice. I know you think that means Abortion, but

No, it is called Citizen's United.

Post by claviger
Americans have Freedom of Choice everyday in every way

Post by Anthony Marsh
And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?

If the free food is healthy and nutritious then no need for dining
out unless there is local restaurant who needs your support.

You were supposed to complain about my getting free food.

Is it free or did you work for it all your life as a musician and bus
driver?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original

Is that a book? Do you remember the title?

Not sure it was a book or internet article. The idea was JFK was
assassinated for issuing US Government currency in competition
with the Fed.

Not sure it was it's own book. It's been in books and on the InterNet.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and
Kennedy removed from office.

I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.

To finance "Lincoln's War" as one author put it, Lincoln had to borrow
heavily from wealthy Northern industrialists. Keep in mind Lincoln
was born in Kentucky and grew up in Illinois, so he was not from the
New England blue bloods or New York industrialists. The fact is they
considered him a country bumpkin.
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will control US currency and the Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

What teeth?

So high taxes rotted your teeth out. You are another tragic victim
of confiscatory taxation.

Interesting theory, but I never said my teeth rotted. They were pulled
out and I didn't have enough money for dentures.

Why were they pulled out? Did you not take good care
of your own teeth? Are you guilty of dental negligence?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK.

However JFK had something to do with the Reagan Revolution.
Remember when President Reagan invited the Kennedy family
to the White House?

And you think Reagan was inspired by JFK? You've got to stop drinking.

I have a thirst for knowledge. Reagan studied history and remembered the
boost JFK gave the US Economy with major tax cuts. He noticed how LBJ
offset all the good results of JFK tax policy, by setting the stage for
massive deficit spending that is now self perpetuating until the US
economy runs out of cheap gas and clean water.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.

Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.

That's insane. Fascists and Nazis are always rightingers.

You either flunked History or had a leftwing college professor.
That is a Marxist myth. Hitler was not a Conservative, nor was
Mussolini. Both upended the Conservative establishment.

Hitler destroyed the Democratic Weimar Republic. Mussolini
gave an ultimatum to Conservatives: get on board or else. In
Russia the Bolsheviks murdered all the Conservatives called
White Russians. The Bolshevik favorite color was blood Red.

Post by Anthony Marsh
What you mean is True Conservatives want nothing to do with
Trump.

That would be GOP conservatives. Populist Conservatives like
the famous Reagan Democrats, made up of Middle Class and
Blue Collar workers loved Reagan and want to give Trump a fair
chance to repair a decade of mismanagement coming from the
Oval Office.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?

Why haven't you taken my advise and voluntarily paid 91%?

You go first. Be an inspiration to all Liberals around the World
to stop being mouthy hypocrites and give all they got to the
Government. True Liberals in Sweden are taxed 100% and do
love their government. Some are even taxed 115%! I've never
figured out how that works. Why don't you be a good little
Liberal guinea pig and give it a try!

Post by Anthony Marsh
No sense of Patriotism?

I have made it clear God only asked for 10% of human labor.
To give more to Earthly government is an insult to God.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.

My understanding is many of those wealthy people are Movie Stars
who talk Liberal but hide their money offshore.

Brilliant counter-attack. Well, Trump was a star on TV, but he was
not a movie star.

No he was not a movie star and we have to give him points for that.
I never liked The Apprentice. It was contrived and somewhat phony.
That is why Trump was not in my Top Ten Choices for President. If I
could choose the next President and Vice President it would have
been dignified Dr Ben Carson and spunky Carly Fiorina. IMO a great
combination of opposites-attract and both passionate about saving
the US economy from the grasping clutches of Socialism.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

SHOW me which one you like the best

OK.

You can never answer my questions.

You're one to talk. Stay tuned.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.

Maybe, but can they color between the lines?

Better than you can.

Yes little kids are surprisingly talented.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote

Not that long ago. 2016.

Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.

Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.

Racism is a condescending attitude toward another race
of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like US or the rest of human beings on the Planet.

This Liberal propaganda is a condescending putdown of Black
people all over the world. It disconnects Blacks as somehow a
defective subset of Homo Sapiens. It's like saying they are too
too stupid to have the same emotions as the rest of Humanity.

How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

I had a young Black guy tell me once there are only two Races
on Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. To him the
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks where American Blacks are concerned.

Then he pointed out Blacks are superior to all above based on
the NBA, NFL, and ABA. Does make you stop and wonder! As I
pondered his observations I realized he bought into the White
Liberal Myth that Blacks lack a full set of human emotions and
they are centuries behind in the evolution of the human brain,
therefore must always vote for any White Liberal to look after
their wants and needs. In other words, be sure to stay on the
Liberal Reservation.

My father used to tell me, "People are more alike on the inside
than on the outside." In my life experience I have found that to
be true.

Black people are real people like everyone else on the Planet,
so Liberals need to stop trying to rob them of their Humanity
and Dignity. They are real Human Beings just like us.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?

It was bankrupt when he got there thanks to all the thieves in

So you aren't old enough to remember which President go rid of the debt.
What you said applies only to Trump.

Well Golly Darn! Have you heard of the Internet? You can ask it
questions and will disgorge all kinds of info and many things that
happened long before you were born. History at your fingertips.

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Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters. Basically
he invented political cocaine for the masses.

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who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family tradition.
Like the Adams family.

Bill Clinton second term with a Republican Congress
had a balanced budget which proves it can be done.

But he was a Democrat. Are you caving in?

No, he decided to act like an old fashioned Democrat and actually
do something good for the Nation and leave a positive example of
political rivals who can work together for the good of all. Sadly he
left another legacy that would prove to be a political time-bomb of
how many female staffers were mistreated and abused. If not for
that he might've been remembered in the history books as a great
President. Keep in mind he did have a Republican Congress in his
second term to make him look good.

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We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient.

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.

Yes they did and some even inherited part of the plantation they
worked on. The story no one talks about is former slaves who did
well as free men, who bought land and slaves to work it.

Some people have talked about it. Maybe even on C-SPAN.

Two sayings I learned in college:

"Real history is more amazing than the Myth."

and

"Real history is more interesting than the Myth."


When I first read about this I was amazed. They went from slaves
chopping cotton in the hot sun to a free man with a strong work
ethic. They must have been observant with organizational skills
and determined to succeed. Some of them were beloved slaves
who were in the master's will and others were skilled freedmen
who kept doing what they knew how to do, but got paid for time
and effort.

The amazing thing is some of this happened before the Civil War
and the freedmen kept plantations going with slave labor. Not so
shocking if they paid for relatives and friends from surrounding
plantations. I would think they had a "We're all in this together"
attitude, more like a kibbutz in Israel. Evidently many of these
successful freedmen fought for the Confederate States during
the Civil War.

White people and Native Americans also worked in cotton fields
before, during, and after the Civil War.

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You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once
I'm impressed! Way to go!!

Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation
in Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income
so learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.

Gosh, you sound like a middle class kind of guy. How the heck did you

I grew up as a middle-class kid.

Post by claviger
veer off the path of righteousness and become a whiny Liberal?

Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been debunked in the massive laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now the European Union. Germany is finally
going to get their historic wish to own Europe. No need for marching
armies, all they have to do is keep loaning money to all the phony EU
economies and one day foreclose on them one at a time.

I have a good friend who is Greek. He grew up in the USA but speaks
fluent Greek. Not real wealthy but takes a trip to Greece once a year.
His heritage is both Kritikos (Crete) and Athenian. I once asked why
he doesn't move to Athens and retire. He loves his heritage but has
no respect for modern Greeks in Athens "Because none of them want
to work. They have no sense of earning a paycheck. They want the
government to do everything."

Greece is the biggest mess in the EU and has no desire to change.
This is what Socialism has done to the great city where Democracy
was born. Evidently they have no shame and expect the EU to take
care of them with perpetual rollover loans. If it can happened in the
very birthplace of Democracy, it can happened in the USA.

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"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

You didn't answer this question.

When, just now? I just saw it now. It was a small crack in a boulder.
Maybe a small animal or a person could squeeze through it, but not a
camel. His audience knew what Jesus meant.

Never heard that story but I like it. Most Biblical villages were
surrounded by walls that encircled the main part of town. In the daytime
the main gate was open because they could see enemies coming at a distance
and shut the gate, but at night the main gate was closed. Only a very
narrow gate was opened for arriving visitors just large enough for one
camel to barely squeeze through. The camel owner had to walk in front or
behind the camel. This squeeze gate was called, The Eye of the Needle.
Yes people of ancient Israel would know what Jesus meant.

[Anthony Marsh]

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I don't care how much money the Koch Brothers have, who worked
hard and took risks to earn all that money, the kind of risk takers

Worked Hard? Is that a joke?

No joke. Read about successful Americans. Many came from abject poverty
and had nothing to lose. They worked very hard and often took extreme
risks to become successful and wealthy. Most people who are risk averse
might one day become prosperous but not rich. Wealth is reserved for gutsy
risk takers.

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that made America a great place to live and work with the freedom
to spend their money anyway they please. That concept is called
Freedom of Choice. I know you think that means Abortion, but

No, it is called Citizen's United.

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Americans have Freedom of Choice everyday in every way

Post by Anthony Marsh
And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?

If the free food is healthy and nutritious then no need for dining
out unless there is local restaurant who needs your support.

You were supposed to complain about my getting free food.

Is it free or did you work for it all your life as a musician and bus
driver?

It is free from my health insurance.

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Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.

I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original

Is that a book? Do you remember the title?

Not sure it was a book or internet article. The idea was JFK was
assassinated for issuing US Government currency in competition
with the Fed.

Not sure it was it's own book. It's been in books and on the InterNet.

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clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and
Kennedy removed from office.

I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.

To finance "Lincoln's War" as one author put it, Lincoln had to borrow
heavily from wealthy Northern industrialists. Keep in mind Lincoln
was born in Kentucky and grew up in Illinois, so he was not from the
New England blue bloods or New York industrialists. The fact is they
considered him a country bumpkin.
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will control US currency and the Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

Nope.

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I think that's bad for growth.

All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.

Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?

High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.

What teeth?

So high taxes rotted your teeth out. You are another tragic victim
of confiscatory taxation.

Interesting theory, but I never said my teeth rotted. They were pulled
out and I didn't have enough money for dentures.

Why were they pulled out? Did you not take good care
of your own teeth? Are you guilty of dental negligence?

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Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.

The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK.

However JFK had something to do with the Reagan Revolution.
Remember when President Reagan invited the Kennedy family
to the White House?

And you think Reagan was inspired by JFK? You've got to stop drinking.

I have a thirst for knowledge. Reagan studied history and remembered the
boost JFK gave the US Economy with major tax cuts. He noticed how LBJ

Please link to a web dite about JFK's tax cuts. WHat was the bill # and
when was it signed into law?

Post by claviger
offset all the good results of JFK tax policy, by setting the stage for
massive deficit spending that is now self perpetuating until the US
economy runs out of cheap gas and clean water.

You mean constant war?
What do you mean by cheap gas? YOu mean for your car? You like $3.00 per
gallon?

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Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.

Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.

That's insane. Fascists and Nazis are always rightingers.

You either flunked History or had a leftwing college professor.

Again, I did not have history in Collge. I had it in high school.
I studied music in college.

Post by claviger
That is a Marxist myth. Hitler was not a Conservative, nor was
Mussolini. Both upended the Conservative establishment.

I didn't say conservative. I said rightwinger.

Post by claviger
Hitler destroyed the Democratic Weimar Republic. Mussolini
gave an ultimatum to Conservatives: get on board or else. In
Russia the Bolsheviks murdered all the Conservatives called
White Russians. The Bolshevik favorite color was blood Red.

Post by Anthony Marsh
What you mean is True Conservatives want nothing to do with
Trump.

That would be GOP conservatives. Populist Conservatives like

OK, you think only rightwing Republicans can be conservatives. Rad Paul is
not conservative enough for the Frredom caucus.

Post by claviger
the famous Reagan Democrats, made up of Middle Class and
Blue Collar workers loved Reagan and want to give Trump a fair
chance to repair a decade of mismanagement coming from the
Oval Office.

Nope. Trump's supporters are not middle class. They are trailer trash.

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If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?

Why haven't you taken my advise and voluntarily paid 91%?

You go first. Be an inspiration to all Liberals around the World

I was not the one complaining about taxes. YOu were.

Post by claviger
to stop being mouthy hypocrites and give all they got to the
Government. True Liberals in Sweden are taxed 100% and do

I like that. You don't want to pay taxes so you want to make all the
Liberals pay for your taxes. What's that policy called? Trickle on them
theory?

Post by claviger
love their government. Some are even taxed 115%! I've never

Liberals are taxed 115%? Present tense? I think you're remembering that
millionaire director from 40 years ago.

Post by claviger
figured out how that works. Why don't you be a good little
Liberal guinea pig and give it a try!

I'm not the one complaining about taxes.

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No sense of Patriotism?

I have made it clear God only asked for 10% of human labor.

Was it really God or was it the Roman Empire. A tithe is not a tax.

Post by claviger
To give more to Earthly government is an insult to God.

Yea, so don't pay your taxes, Does your church build your roads? The
Church of Route 66?

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would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.

Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.

My understanding is many of those wealthy people are Movie Stars
who talk Liberal but hide their money offshore.

Brilliant counter-attack. Well, Trump was a star on TV, but he was
not a movie star.

No he was not a movie star and we have to give him points for that.
I never liked The Apprentice. It was contrived and somewhat phony.
That is why Trump was not in my Top Ten Choices for President. If I
could choose the next President and Vice President it would have
been dignified Dr Ben Carson and spunky Carly Fiorina. IMO a great
combination of opposites-attract and both passionate about saving
the US economy from the grasping clutches of Socialism.

Ever think of having a co-President? One woman, one man.

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LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.

Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?

More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.

SHOW me which one you like the best

OK.

You can never answer my questions.

You're one to talk. Stay tuned.

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All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.

That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.

Do you want children to vote?

Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.

Maybe, but can they color between the lines?

Better than you can.

Yes little kids are surprisingly talented.

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Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.

That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote

Not that long ago. 2016.

Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.

Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.

Racism is a condescending attitude toward another race
of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,

False. It is a simple fact repeated by civil rights workers.

Post by claviger
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.

No one ever said that except Shockley.

Post by claviger
In other words Not Like US or the rest of human beings on the Planet.

Few racists would say that. Maybe Trump would call them animals.
But all humans are animals.

Post by claviger
This Liberal propaganda is a condescending putdown of Black
people all over the world. It disconnects Blacks as somehow a

Reverse racism won't work.

Post by claviger
defective subset of Homo Sapiens. It's like saying they are too
too stupid to have the same emotions as the rest of Humanity.

Is emotion the only measure? Shockley tried to say it was IQ.

Post by claviger
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project

Not logical. Difference is not bad.

Post by claviger
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.
I had a young Black guy tell me once there are only two Races
on Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. To him the

Simplistic.

Post by claviger
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks where American Blacks are concerned.

That's a joke.
What about other blacks?

Post by claviger
Then he pointed out Blacks are superior to all above based on
the NBA, NFL, and ABA. Does make you stop and wonder! As I

He's teasing you.

Post by claviger
pondered his observations I realized he bought into the White
Liberal Myth that Blacks lack a full set of human emotions and

Slander.

Post by claviger
they are centuries behind in the evolution of the human brain,
therefore must always vote for any White Liberal to look after
their wants and needs. In other words, be sure to stay on the
Liberal Reservation.

Again, stop using the crutch of reverse racism.

Post by claviger
My father used to tell me, "People are more alike on the inside
than on the outside." In my life experience I have found that to
be true.

Silly. I had a racist cousin who would say that blacks are black inside,
have a black heart, black blood and piss black piss.

Post by claviger
Black people are real people like everyone else on the Planet,

No and they shouldn't have to be. Difference is good.

Post by claviger
so Liberals need to stop trying to rob them of their Humanity
and Dignity. They are real Human Beings just like us.

Typical rightwing hatred to try to turn things back on Liberals.

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Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.

Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.

Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.

Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.

US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.

You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?

It was bankrupt when he got there thanks to all the thieves in

So you aren't old enough to remember which President go rid of the debt.
What you said applies only to Trump.

Well Golly Darn! Have you heard of the Internet? You can ask it
questions and will disgorge all kinds of info and many things that
happened long before you were born. History at your fingertips.

Not always. The JFK files are not at my fingertips.

Post by claviger

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Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

Wow, you just figured that out? Why didn't you say centuries? Oh I know,
you only wanted to go back to Obama.

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters. Basically
he invented political cocaine for the masses.

Then why don't you blame it all on LBJ?
And maybe you could claim that LNJ killed Kennedy to get away with all
these evil plans!

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who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi

Sounds like a Bush plan.

Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.

ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.

Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.

WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family tradition.
Like the Adams family.

Bill Clinton second term with a Republican Congress
had a balanced budget which proves it can be done.

But he was a Democrat. Are you caving in?

No, he decided to act like an old fashioned Democrat and actually
do something good for the Nation and leave a positive example of

Maybe you could claim that he was a South Democrat.

Post by claviger
political rivals who can work together for the good of all. Sadly he
left another legacy that would prove to be a political time-bomb of
how many female staffers were mistreated and abused. If not for

Tell us how many? Trump is groping all his female staff?

Post by claviger
that he might've been remembered in the history books as a great
President. Keep in mind he did have a Republican Congress in his
second term to make him look good.

In spite of that he is.

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We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient.

It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.

Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.

And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.

Yes they did and some even inherited part of the plantation they
worked on. The story no one talks about is former slaves who did
well as free men, who bought land and slaves to work it.

Some people have talked about it. Maybe even on C-SPAN.

"Real history is more amazing than the Myth."
and
"Real history is more interesting than the Myth."
When I first read about this I was amazed. They went from slaves
chopping cotton in the hot sun to a free man with a strong work

Many black slaves got their freedom before the end of the Civil War. And
many black people lived free even before the Civil War,

Post by claviger
ethic. They must have been observant with organizational skills

And practice, practice, practice.

Post by claviger
and determined to succeed. Some of them were beloved slaves
who were in the master's will and others were skilled freedmen
who kept doing what they knew how to do, but got paid for time
and effort.
The amazing thing is some of this happened before the Civil War
and the freedmen kept plantations going with slave labor. Not so
shocking if they paid for relatives and friends from surrounding
plantations. I would think they had a "We're all in this together"
attitude, more like a kibbutz in Israel. Evidently many of these
successful freedmen fought for the Confederate States during
the Civil War.
White people and Native Americans also worked in cotton fields
before, during, and after the Civil War.

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You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.

So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once
I'm impressed! Way to go!!

Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation
in Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income
so learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.

Gosh, you sound like a middle class kind of guy. How the heck did you

I grew up as a middle-class kid.

Post by claviger
veer off the path of righteousness and become a whiny Liberal?

Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been debunked in the massive laboratory

Most liberals do not care about socialism.

Post by claviger
of the Soviet Union, and now the European Union. Germany is finally
going to get their historic wish to own Europe. No need for marching

Germany can not own Europe. They can break away, but I doubt that they
want to.

Post by claviger
armies, all they have to do is keep loaning money to all the phony EU
economies and one day foreclose on them one at a time.

SOunds possible, but not likely.

Post by claviger
I have a good friend who is Greek. He grew up in the USA but speaks
fluent Greek. Not real wealthy but takes a trip to Greece once a year.
His heritage is both Kritikos (Crete) and Athenian. I once asked why
he doesn't move to Athens and retire. He loves his heritage but has
no respect for modern Greeks in Athens "Because none of them want
to work. They have no sense of earning a paycheck. They want the
government to do everything."

That could be true, but he also may be a rightwinger who has no respect
for Democracy.

Post by claviger
Greece is the biggest mess in the EU and has no desire to change.

Why should it change?

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This is what Socialism has done to the great city where Democracy
was born. Evidently they have no shame and expect the EU to take
care of them with perpetual rollover loans. If it can happened in the
very birthplace of Democracy, it can happened in the USA.

SO basically you blame all the ills of the world on Socialism amd upi
love Fascism. How did that work out for Hitler? How did that work out
for Italy?

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"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha

Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?

You didn't answer this question.

When, just now? I just saw it now. It was a small crack in a boulder.
Maybe a small animal or a person could squeeze through it, but not a
camel. His audience knew what Jesus meant.

Never heard that story but I like it. Most Biblical villages were

Yes, I know you've never heard it before because you never read the
Bible. That's why I told it to you. Jesus had a knack for parables.

Post by claviger
surrounded by walls that encircled the main part of town. In the daytime
the main gate was open because they could see enemies coming at a distance
and shut the gate, but at night the main gate was closed. Only a very
narrow gate was opened for arriving visitors just large enough for one
camel to barely squeeze through. The camel owner had to walk in front or
behind the camel. This squeeze gate was called, The Eye of the Needle.
Yes people of ancient Israel would know what Jesus meant.

If a camel could get through it an Army could get through it. Try again.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
You were supposed to complain about my getting free food.

Is it free or did you work for it all your life as a musician and
bus driver?

It is free from my health insurance.

There is no such thing as free food. Somebody paid for it.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Who will control US currency and the Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

Nope.

And butterflies turn into dollar bills at night in the local park
and flutter down the street when the wind blows.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Interesting theory, but I never said my teeth rotted. They were
pulled out and I didn't have enough money for dentures.

Why were they pulled out? Did you not take good care
of your own teeth? Are you guilty of dental negligence?

You ignored my warnings: chewing sandpaper is a bad
habit and never ever say "I'll bet my teeth I'm right!"

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
I have a thirst for knowledge. Reagan studied history and remembered the
boost JFK gave the US Economy with major tax cuts. He noticed how LBJ

Please link to a web dite about JFK's tax cuts. WHat was the bill # and
when was it signed into law?

Have you heard of the Internet? It's really cool where
you can look up stuff for free.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
offset all the good results of JFK tax policy, by setting the stage for
massive deficit spending that is now self perpetuating until the US
economy runs out of cheap gas and clean water.

You mean constant war?

That is one way to go broke. No peace dividends.

Post by Anthony Marsh
What do you mean by cheap gas? YOu mean for your car?
You like $3.00 per gallon?

Petrol is $9.85 a gallon in the UK this week.
Also:
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-gas-cost-more-in-Europe-than-the-US
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/gas-prices/#20181:United-States:USD:g

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.

Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.

That's insane. Fascists and Nazis are always rightingers.

You either flunked History or had a leftwing college professor.

Again, I did not have history in Collge. I had it in high school.
I studied music in college.

That explains a lot.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
That is a Marxist myth. Hitler was not a Conservative, nor was
Mussolini. Both upended the Conservative establishment.

I didn't say conservative. I said rightwinger.

LeftWingers like you cause EVEROYNE else to be to the right of
your extreme politics. Moderates are on the right side of street
where you live.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Hitler destroyed the Democratic Weimar Republic. Mussolini
gave an ultimatum to Conservatives: get on board or else. In
Russia the Bolsheviks murdered all the Conservatives called
White Russians. The Bolshevik favorite color was blood Red.

Post by Anthony Marsh
What you mean is True Conservatives want nothing to do with
Trump.

That would be GOP conservatives. Populist Conservatives like

OK, you think only rightwing Republicans can be conservatives.
Rad Paul is not conservative enough for the Frredom caucus.

His brother Ron Paul is a Libertarian who runs for office as
a Republican.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
the famous Reagan Democrats, made up of Middle Class and
Blue Collar workers loved Reagan and want to give Trump a fair
chance to repair a decade of mismanagement coming from the
Oval Office.

Nope. Trump's supporters are not middle class. They are trailer trash.

What a disgusting comment. Did you learn that from James Carville?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty

I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan

Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.

Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?

Why haven't you taken my advise and voluntarily paid 91%?

You go first. Be an inspiration to all Liberals around the World

I was not the one complaining about taxes. YOu were.

You remind me of the jingle all Politicians sing in chorus:

"Don't tax You, Don't tax Me,
Tax that Man Behind a Tree."

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
to stop being mouthy hypocrites and give all they got to the
Government. True Liberals in Sweden are taxed 100% and do

I like that. You don't want to pay taxes so you want to make all the
Liberals pay for your taxes. What's that policy called?
Trickle on them theory?

That is hilarious! Did you make that up? Have some bad
news, Democrats already stole you idea and used for the
last 8 years.

The most logical option is a 10% Income Tax for everyone,
with no deductions. Computer wizards claim that system
would bring in more tax revenues than the current system
and do away with tax fraud. Liberals don't like it because
there is no theft involved.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
love their government. Some are even taxed 115%! I've never

Liberals are taxed 115%? Present tense?

Yes, in the Socialist Paradise of Sweden. Their traditional
Economic iceberg is headed for a catastrophic meltdown.
They're in the process of committing national suicide with
unrealistic immigration policy. Western culture is having a
meltdown and the universal Islamic Jihad is colonizing all
of Western Europe. Should be a very interesting conclusion
to the whole EuroDrama fiasco. You can read more about
it in a book called The Revelation.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I think you're remembering that millionaire director from
40 years ago.

No clue what you're talking about.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
figured out how that works. Why don't you be a good little
Liberal guinea pig and give it a try!

I'm not the one complaining about taxes.

Do you even pay taxes?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
No sense of Patriotism?

I have made it clear God only asked for 10% of human labor.

Was it really God or was it the Roman Empire. A tithe is not a tax.

tithe - one tenth of annual produce or earnings, formerly taken as
a tax for the support of the church and clergy.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
To give more to Earthly government is an insult to God.

Yea, so don't pay your taxes, Does your church build your roads?
The Church of Route 66?

I like the sound of that Church! Is that a Marsh original? You're on
a roll today. One of my favorite TV shows as a kid and enjoyed the
very popular theme song composed by Nelson Riddle.

Inspiration for the TV series was the hit song "Route 66" written by
Bobby Troup who was married to the beautiful singer Julie London.

Bobby Troup - Route 66

"Route 66" - The Manhattan Transfer (2008)

Post by Anthony Marsh
Ever think of having a co-President? One woman, one man.

Been there, done that: 1993-2001 Billery Clinton

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,

False. It is a simple fact repeated by civil rights workers.

Black Panthers, Louis Farrakhan, and Reverend Wright didn't get
the Memo.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.

No one ever said that except Shockley.

Post by claviger
In other words Not Like US or the rest of human beings on the Planet.

Few racists would say that. Maybe Trump would call them animals.
But all humans are animals.

Yes they are, and amazingly, with such a diversity of ethnic groups
around the world there seems to be no intelligence gap. Education
and resources yes, but no apparent evolutionary advantage as one
might expect. Some argue Cro-Magnons eradicated Neanderthals
who couldn't compete, but not all scientists accept that old theory.
That would seem impossible based on Darwin's Theory and even
more so Gould/Eldridge Punk Eek Theory. Maybe it's a God Thing.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
This Liberal propaganda is a condescending putdown of Black
people all over the world. It disconnects Blacks as somehow a

Reverse racism won't work.

Racism is racism, no one owns a patent or monopoly. It is natural
instinct to form tribes based on genetics and cultural attitudes.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
defective subset of Homo Sapiens. It's like saying they are too
too stupid to have the same emotions as the rest of Humanity.

Is emotion the only measure? Shockley tried to say it was IQ.

Racism is instinctive and cultural. Why do Zebras, Wildebeast, and
Water Buffalos not hang out with Lions, Leopards, and Tigers? On
the vast plains of Africa grazing animals cohabitate the grasslands
with no animosity, but do not crossbreed. However, different colors
of horses and cattle do crossbreed.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project

Not logical.

Yes and No. Our genetic differences are not that far apart.
So argue with the Scientists.

Post by Anthony Marsh
Difference is not bad.

Difference is fascinating and makes the world even more interesting.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.
I had a young Black guy tell me once there are only two Races
on Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. To him the

Simplistic.

Are you calling this young Black man a simpleton?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks where American Blacks are concerned.

That's a joke.

He was sincere, not argumentative.

Post by Anthony Marsh
What about other blacks?

Don't know, why don't you go to Roxbury one afternoon
and interview local citizens to ask what they think?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Then he pointed out Blacks are superior to all above based on
the NBA, NFL, and ABA. Does make you stop and wonder! As I

He's teasing you.

He was an honest kid who sincerely believed that. A likable kid
too and good employee. He didn't say these things to be mean
just honest about they way he sees the world.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
pondered his observations I realized he bought into the White
Liberal Myth that Blacks lack a full set of human emotions and

Slander.

Liberals believe Blacks who vote for Conservatives are Traitors
to the Federal Plantation owned by White Liberals.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
they are centuries behind in the evolution of the human brain,
therefore must always vote for any White Liberal to look after
their wants and needs. In other words, be sure to stay on the
Liberal Reservation.

Again, stop using the crutch of reverse racism.

Not a crutch, a reality.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
My father used to tell me, "People are more alike on the inside
than on the outside." In my life experience I have found that to
be true.

Silly. I had a racist cousin who would say that blacks are black inside,
have a black heart, black blood and piss black piss.

Sounds like he had a bad experience somewhere along the way.
That happened to a cousin who went to a predominately black
inner city high school. He was harassed and bullied everyday
because he was white kid with longhair. The famous saying:
"What does not destroy me makes me stronger" applied to him.
He became one heck of street fighter and they finally left him
alone because by then he was half crazy and no longer an easy
mark, so he wasn't worth the trouble. Wish there was a happy
ending like some of the Black kids tried to help but they were
afraid of bullies too.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Black people are real people like everyone else on the Planet,

No and they shouldn't have to be. Difference is good.

I agree, and not only is it good but sometimes inspirational.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
so Liberals need to stop trying to rob them of their Humanity
and Dignity. They are real Human Beings just like us.

Typical rightwing hatred to try to turn things back on Liberals.

As a group I have no respect for most Liberals who I consider total
hypocrites. Only fair to admit I've met some I do like and respect
but only a few. They were sincere and well intentioned but very
naive about the way the world works. I do have some kinfolk who
vote Democrat. I try to forgive them for that ill advised waste of a
vote in such close elections.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

Wow, you just figured that out? Why didn't you say centuries? Oh I know,
you only wanted to go back to Obama.

Way before Obama.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters. Basically
he invented political cocaine for the masses.

Then why don't you blame it all on LBJ?

You have a short attention span. I do blame it on LBJ.

Post by Anthony Marsh
And maybe you could claim that LNJ killed Kennedy

to get away with all these evil plans!

Who is LNJ?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
No, he decided to act like an old fashioned Democrat and actually
do something good for the Nation and leave a positive example of

Maybe you could claim that he was a South Democrat.

He is a South Democrat. He's from Arkansas.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
political rivals who can work together for the good of all. Sadly he
left another legacy that would prove to be a political time-bomb of
how many female staffers were mistreated and abused. If not for

Tell us how many? Trump is groping all his female staff?

See what Billery Clinton started:
Billy Boy for damaging and Hillary for managing . . . . . the cover-up.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
that he might've been remembered in the history books as a great
President. Keep in mind he did have a Republican Congress in his
second term to make him look good.

In spite of that he is.

Bill Clinton started the bad example of taking advantage of women
who work for politicians. The general public knew about it before
his reelection and voted for him anyway. When politicians noticed
that, it was open season on female staffers from then on. Some got
smart and demanded big chunks of hush money.

Post by Anthony Marsh
Many black slaves got their freedom before the end
of the Civil War. And many black people lived free
even before the Civil War,

Yes, a surprising number. Many Freedmen did very well in a Free
Market environment, a very Conservative concept. Liberals hate
Free Markets they can't control. They lust for the power to decide
all winners and losers in the national marketplace.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
ethic. They must have been observant with organizational skills

And practice, practice, practice.

The whole time they were slaves they learned from mistakes and
successes at the owner's expense. That knowledge served them
well in the Free Market. Those early Black entrepreneurs would
vote Conservative today.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been debunked in the massive laboratory

Most liberals do not care about socialism.

Liberals care about Socialism because they are control freaks,
what Socialism is all about.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
of the Soviet Union, and now the European Union. Germany is finally
going to get their historic wish to own Europe. No need for marching

Germany can not own Europe. They can break away, but I doubt that
they want to.

Don't be so sure. Germans did not turn in all their Deutsche Marks for
the Euro. They did not trust all the other EU members to grow up and
change their selfish undisciplined bad habits. They were right. One EU
economist explained why all other EU members would collapse if they
bailed out, because of the enormous expense to print currency fast
enough, which alone could wreck the economy of several members.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
armies, all they have to do is keep loaning money to all the phony
EU economies and one day foreclose on them one at a time.

SOunds possible, but not likely.

They would probably do it very selectively. Some will be too big a mess
for even the Germans to fix.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
I have a good friend who is Greek. He grew up in the USA but speaks
fluent Greek. Not real wealthy but takes a trip to Greece once a year.
His heritage is both Kritikos (Crete) and Athenian. I once asked why
he doesn't move to Athens and retire. He loves his heritage but has
no respect for modern Greeks in Athens "Because none of them want
to work. They have no sense of earning a paycheck. They want the
government to do everything."

That could be true, but he also may be a rightwinger who has
no respect for Democracy.

Right-wingers support Constitutional Democracy designed by
the illustrious founders of our Republic..

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Greece is the biggest mess in the EU and has no desire to change.

Why should it change?

Their economy is broke. They are living on borrowed money and
borrowed time.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
This is what Socialism has done to the great city where Democracy
was born. Evidently they have no shame and expect the EU to take
care of them with perpetual rollover loans. If it can happened in the
very birthplace of Democracy, it can happened in the USA.

SO basically you blame all the ills of the world on Socialism amd upi
love Fascism. How did that work out for Hitler? How did that work out
for Italy?

Yes I do blame all the ills of the modern world on the defective Ideas
of Marx and Engels, and the 3 malevolent models of Socialism they
spawned. Millions of people died because of these unnatural and
unethical concepts of human government that unleashed the
monsters in their society.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
You didn't answer this question.

When, just now? I just saw it now. It was a small crack in a boulder.
Maybe a small animal or a person could squeeze through it, but not
a camel. His audience knew what Jesus meant.

Never heard that story but I like it. Most Biblical villages were

Yes, I know you've never heard it before because you never read the
Bible. That's why I told it to you. Jesus had a knack for parables.

Not only have I read The Bible, I've read different Translations,
and the TaNaKh. I debated on Beliefnet for several years and
the most fascinating debate forum I ever participated on, until
they self-destructed by not enforcing their own ROC. It spread
like a contagion as the Hosts (monitors) became petty dictators
then formed self serving cliques and soon lost their audience.
They basically ran off all members that did not agree with them
so there was no one left to debate. Rather than fix the problem
the owner dumped it on a famous international publisher, who
should have known better.

The Owner lied about membership and sold this once dynamic
intellectual forum, now a faltering property, to none other than
Rupert Murdoch who soon realized he'd been lied to and sold
out. Not sure he ever made a profit. It was sad to watch such
a great concept fail. I learned much more about The Bible from
that experience, and also learned how important the ROC really
is. Without it a debate forum soon degenerates into a juvenile
shouting match. Be grateful Professor McAdams does a good
job enforcing the ROC on this forum.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
surrounded by walls that encircled the main part of town. In the daytime
the main gate was open because they could see enemies coming at a
distance and shut the gate, but at night the main gate was closed. Only
a very narrow gate was opened for arriving visitors just large enough for
one camel to barely squeeze through. The camel owner had to be in line
with the camel. This squeeze gate was called, The Eye of the Needle.
Yes people of ancient Israel would know what Jesus meant.

If a camel could get through it an Army could get through it. Try again.

One camel could barely get in. The outside gate was shut behind the
camel before the inside gate was opened. The camel and owner were
trapped until the signal to open the interior gate. It was a very effective
defense system used all over the Middle East in ancient times.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
That would be GOP conservatives. Populist Conservatives like

OK, you think only rightwing Republicans can be conservatives.
Rad Paul is not conservative enough for the Frredom caucus.

Ran Paul is a good guy. Does he have an evil twin brother named Rad?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
That would be GOP conservatives. Populist Conservatives like

OK, you think only rightwing Republicans can be conservatives.
Rad Paul is not conservative enough for the Frredom caucus.

Ran Paul is a good guy. Does he have an evil twin brother named Rad?

You figure it out. Rad for Radical!

WTF is the Frredom Caucus?

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)



* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

[claviger]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.

NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .

Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.
NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .

How rude! Nessie's not a monster. She's a lovely dinosaur. Never hurt
anybody.

Post by claviger
Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.
NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .

How rude! Nessie's not a monster. She's a lovely dinosaur. Never hurt
anybody.

Post by claviger
Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

St Columba had to scold Nessie and make her behave in A.D. 565.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.
NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .

How rude! Nessie's not a monster. She's a lovely dinosaur. Never hurt
anybody.

Post by claviger
Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

St Columba had to scold Nessie and make her behave in A.D. 565.

And she did. She's a good girl.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.
NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .
Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

Why are you only singling out Greece? Shouldn't you be saying the same
Xenophobic things about all of Europe?

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.

Doesn't sound like any theory I've ever heard.
Not much of a motive.

Who will be in control of US currency and Money Supply
is not much a motive?!!!

The ability to print and control the National inventory of
currency and specie is enormous political power. The
Federal Reserve is THE BANKER to all other Banks in the
USA. The Fed processes banking transactions between
banks, including foreign banks. As one might guess, the
powerful families who own the Fed would not appreciate
a President issuing a competing currency.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another
race of people, no matter what their skin color.

False. Racism is what White people do to Black people.

You're so predictable and you never disappoint. This retort is
Classic Liberal Propaganda incredibly insulting to Black people,
as if they are not real Human Beings with shared human emotions.
In other words Not Like Us or the rest of human beings on the Planet.
How about this concept: Black skinned people are no different
than anyone else on Planet Earth. The Human Genome Project
confirms this as a genetic reality. That will come as a shock to
Liberals all over the world.

The Human Genome Project ranks the Saan, called "Bushmen"
the oldest tribe on Earth who still use an ancient proto-Language
with clicking sounds. Scientifically Adam and Eve came from this
Paleolithic tribe.

A young Black guy told me once there are only two Races on
the Planet Earth: Black people and everyone else. In his world
Anglos, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, Jews, Egyptians, etc, are
all White folks as far as American Blacks are concerned.

An older Black man told me that Black culture in the US is very
aware of various shades of Blackness: the purest Black from
Africa to brown, mulatto, high yellow, and octoroon.

Post by Anthony Marsh
So you aren't old enough to remember which President got rid
of the debt. What you said applies only to Trump.

I know one new President who watched it like a hawk.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by claviger
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.

How many decades? Why didn't you say centuries?

That would be 1918 so maybe you are close. LBJ was the first to
institutionalize deficit spending as a never-ending political scam
to create a partisan addiction for segments of US voters.
Basically he invented political cocaine for the masses.

And they are now fully addicted. Americans have an addiction
for addictions. When they like something they want more of it,
a lot more of it.

Post by Anthony Marsh
I grew up as a middle-class kid.
Then I saw what the CIA, Republicans, and rightwingers were doing
to destroy our country.

I feel the same way about Liberals. They don't care all their fictitious
ideas about Socialism have been a complete failure in the laboratory
of the Soviet Union, and now all the failing experiments across the
European Union.

Greeks invented democracy in ancient Athens, but now has mutated
into a self defeating version that is devouring its own economy. They
are no longer independent, just one of several mendicant economies
in the European Union of NSSSE.* (Not to be confused with Nessie
in Scotland.)
* Non Self Sustaining Socialist Economies.

NSSSIE : Non Self Sustaining Socialist Idiotic Economies.
NESSIE : Loch Ness Monster in Scotland .
Of the two monsters Nsssie is by far the worst and much more catastrophic.
It devours whole economies and pounces on wounded struggling financial
econosystems.

Why are you only singling out Greece? Shouldn't you be saying the same
Xenophobic things about all of Europe?

I am. Haven't you been paying attention?! Germany and GB were the only
ones trying to make the colossal mess of a pretend EU work. Finally GB
gave up and put on their parachute to bail out.

[mainframetech]

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.

Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

Make a note of the bullet that hit the curb. There wee many bullets
flying around that day.

Chris

[claviger]

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.

Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/

Judging from the first photo LHO may have cut off the bottom part
that had the New Orleans address.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.

Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/

Judging from the first photo LHO may have cut off the bottom part
that had the New Orleans address.

If I remember correctly, HIS chapter only covered New Orleans, not Dallas.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.

Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Stavis ???Steve??? Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html

Cute, but we have the photograph showing the gouge taken that day. Are you
saying there were multiple marks on the curb everywhere. The piece they
cut out and analyzed showed lead with low levels of antimony in it. Talk
to Ken.

BTW, if you were officially part of the cover-up team you would know that
one of your buddies already dismissing the shot theory by saying that the
mark was left by a wheel weight scraping the curb. You're simply not
trying hard enough to get into the club.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.

Hosty was told that he met with Kostikov but he believed, incorrectly,
that Kostikov was just an embassy functionary. He didn't know, like most
agents did, that Soviet KGB agents often did embassy task. Oswald
mentioned meeting Kostikov (Comrade Kostin) in the letter he sent to the
Soviet Embassy in Washington that was intercepted by the FBI.

But both the FBI and CIA believed based on a double agent ("Tumbleweed", a
German citizen by the name of Guenter Schulz) that the FBI had that
Kostikov was in charge of "wet operations" in the Western Hemisphere.

Here's more details: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/russholmes/pdf/104-10436-10025.pdf

Hosty mentions in his book that after the assassination he heard
Kostikov's name being mentioned and he was curious as to why. And Sorrels
is quoted in the Bugliosi book as saying that if the SS intelligence
division had known about Oswald that they, the SS, would have picked
Oswald up. I don't believe that but that's what he said.

Oswald was not just some ordinary crank. At the very least he warranted a
face-to-face meeting with someone.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.

Hosty was told that he met with Kostikov but he believed, incorrectly,
that Kostikov was just an embassy functionary. He didn't know, like most
agents did, that Soviet KGB agents often did embassy task. Oswald
mentioned meeting Kostikov (Comrade Kostin) in the letter he sent to the
Soviet Embassy in Washington that was intercepted by the FBI.
But both the FBI and CIA believed based on a double agent ("Tumbleweed", a
German citizen by the name of Guenter Schulz) that the FBI had that
Kostikov was in charge of "wet operations" in the Western Hemisphere.
Here's more details: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/russholmes/pdf/104-10436-10025.pdf
Hosty mentions in his book that after the assassination he heard
Kostikov's name being mentioned and he was curious as to why. And Sorrels
is quoted in the Bugliosi book as saying that if the SS intelligence
division had known about Oswald that they, the SS, would have picked
Oswald up. I don't believe that but that's what he said.
Oswald was not just some ordinary crank. At the very least he warranted a
face-to-face meeting with someone.

He did have one, with the KGB.
They were worried about him.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of

Why MC? Unless they KNEW where he was going in MC.

Post by bigdog
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although

Sources and Methods.

Post by bigdog
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind

Maybe GeM guessed it.

Post by bigdog
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?

Who knew about that? Just Angleton? And he's not ever going to share
something like that with the FBI. Certainly not with a lowly police
department. He'd be revealing Sources and Methods.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.

Gee, I don't know, maybe Oswald threatening to blow up the FBI office!
You think that happened every day. Show me any other such threats.

[Ace Kefford]

Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?

What a loss for this country! If only Lee Oswald had not been framed for
the assassination and the Tippit shooting, then he surely would be
remembered today for having fulfilled his prediction to Marina that in 20
years he would be prime minister!