Edith
2007-03-08 19:38:37 UTC
My number is zero. That's the whole point. There is no such thing as
an entirely unmoderated mailing list or Yahoo group, as there is with
a newsgroup. They have central control.
I understand your point, but it's a technicality. Take a web-basedan entirely unmoderated mailing list or Yahoo group, as there is with
a newsgroup. They have central control.
discussion group, for example. The fact that a moderator *can* remove
posts has no significance if the moderator chooses not to do so. There
are any number of such groups in operation.
the fact that a moderator could modify a post -- even if they are not
actually doing so.
Now go disrupt that web forum and see what happens. The owner will likely
do something about it, and even if he doesn't, he has the option to. The
forum is moderated. It is owned by someone who has total control over
everything that happens there.
If that owner leaves it to rot, it will fail and be abandoned much faster
than Usenet is being abandoned.
Again, technically, you are correct. But if the people controlling them
wish to provide the illusion of being unmoderated, and actually do so,
then what difference does it really make that instead of being hosted on
many servers the discussion is hosted on one server?
The difference is that disruption can be controlled, posts can be removed,wish to provide the illusion of being unmoderated, and actually do so,
then what difference does it really make that instead of being hosted on
many servers the discussion is hosted on one server?
posters can be excluded, and the discussion can be kept sane. That's why
people prefer the things.
since it was taken over by one of your brows?
Why don't you go to comp.ai and enjoy reading
those adds?
Why waste your valuable time here?
You know you are in the wrong place fer dat.
The hell will sooner gets frozen
before just about anyone around here
will eat your totalitarian brainwashing propaganda
as to why everything has to be dominated by assorted
nazis of your kind.
What is so difficult to grasp?
Are you a masochist?
Enough.
Are you really such a Usenet bigot that you *believe* that there are no
useful unmoderated non-Usenet forums, and that droves of people are
using them?
It's not bigotry; I can't *think* of any useful unmoderated non-Usenetuseful unmoderated non-Usenet forums, and that droves of people are
using them?
forums. Which doesn't mean there aren't any, but I think it does mean
at least that there aren't many of them, which means people don't want
them as much.
Do you really believe that Usenet remains the mainstream
location that most Internet users go to today to get information?
Er, no. Why would you think I said anything like that?location that most Internet users go to today to get information?
When rec.ponds turned into a cesspool, what happened? The regulars
there left Usenet for other venues. Same for the rec.radio.amateur
groups. Are these alternative forums unmoderated? Some are and some
are not, but that's not the point of this part of the discussion.
Which of them are unmoderated? They left for *moderated* forums wherethere left Usenet for other venues. Same for the rec.radio.amateur
groups. Are these alternative forums unmoderated? Some are and some
are not, but that's not the point of this part of the discussion.
the problem could not follow.
People are leaving Usenet in droves, and more important, new people are
not coming to Usenet because the prefer other types of discussion forums
and that's "where the action is".
That's exactly what I'm saying. The action is there because the peoplenot coming to Usenet because the prefer other types of discussion forums
and that's "where the action is".
are there, and the people are there instead of here because we have no way
to stop assholes from destroying the usefulness of newsgroups.
I'm a beekeeper. There are at least two very useful web-based forums on
the topic. They have hundreds of knowledgeable users plus a good
collection of newbies who are looking for information. There's also a
venerable mailing list. There are Usenet groups, but they're
essentially dead.
And why do you suppose that is? Why do those people not prefer Usenet?the topic. They have hundreds of knowledgeable users plus a good
collection of newbies who are looking for information. There's also a
venerable mailing list. There are Usenet groups, but they're
essentially dead.
This attitude of non-Usenet resources being "in pretty short supply" is
dangerous.
Er, I never said anything like that. I said *unmoderated forums* are indangerous.
short supply. That is to say, I can't think of any. There is certainly
no shortage of forums, but the ones people prefer are, overwhelmingly,
moderated.
People leave Usenet, and if you ask them why, that's the biggest reason.
That's the biggest problem we have right now. Several years ago, it was
spam; there are people who left Usenet because of that who will still
cite that as the reason for not using it, because they don't know that
we fixed that problem. But now, people don't leave because of spam.
You see two main reasons: first, that assholes can destroy the usefulness
of newsgroups; and second, that you *get* spam in your email if you post
using a valid address. The second thing is easy to work around. The
first, not so much -- but if we don't, then we really do have a serious
problem.
This is a much more difficult problem than spam, but it's also a lot more
serious.
The arrogance of Usenet is one of the things that may
eventually kill it. "Read newsgroups with a news reader, or not at
all." Sorry, but most of the people out there who are looking for
information are not interested in the technology, they don't care if the
group they're reading is hosted on one server or thousands, and they
don't appreciate the nuances of threading or being able to examine
message headers. They just want information, or discussion.
I agree with you completely.eventually kill it. "Read newsgroups with a news reader, or not at
all." Sorry, but most of the people out there who are looking for
information are not interested in the technology, they don't care if the
group they're reading is hosted on one server or thousands, and they
don't appreciate the nuances of threading or being able to examine
message headers. They just want information, or discussion.
"We had a good Cabinet meeting, talked about a lot of issues.
Secretary of State and Offense brought us up to date
about our desires to spread freedom and peace around the world."
--- Adolph Bush,
Washington, D.C., Aug. 1, 2003
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This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
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