Discussion:
HORSE SLAUGHTER TO CONTINUE DESPITE ACTION
(too old to reply)
and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
2006-02-08 01:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Horse Slaughter to Continue Despite Action

http://tinyurl.com/dnelw

Or,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2091857&mesg_id=2091857

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
S Murthy
2006-02-08 04:54:08 UTC
Permalink
AswaMedham?? Siva siva!!!
pearl
2006-02-12 15:39:45 UTC
Permalink
PLEASE CROSS POST WHEREVER APPROPRIATE!

In defiance of Congress and the expressed will of the American people,
and in favor of three foreign owned horse slaughter plants, USDA
Director Mike Johanns has published in the Federal Register a scheme
that will permit the continued slaughter of horses for human consumption
in spite of a Congressional moratorium.

Please view the KBR Wild Horse and Burro News story that explains the
situation, provides a link to the Federal Register notice, and suggests
what you can do.

http://www.kbrhorse.net/news/usdahorse01.html

Similar notices can be found on the ISPMB and AOWHA web sites.

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE! If you are concerned about horse slaughter
for human consumption, please ACT NOW and please pass this notice
along to all your friends and horse advocates.
oscar
2006-02-12 20:04:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
PLEASE CROSS POST WHEREVER APPROPRIATE!
In defiance of Congress and the expressed will of the American people,
and in favor of three foreign owned horse slaughter plants, USDA
Director Mike Johanns has published in the Federal Register a scheme
that will permit the continued slaughter of horses for human consumption
in spite of a Congressional moratorium.
The scheme was on the part of the animal nut lobby who thought they could
pull a fast one under the rubric of "saving tax dollars" which most
American people would be for:

"...prohibit Federal tax dollars from being used to fund the federally
mandated inspection of horses to be slaughtered for human consumption..."

Great idea. I think those processing plants should pay for their own
inspections... and so should other plants processing beef, chickens, duck,
milk, chewing gum, lollypops, bread, nuts, carrots, etc. But that doesn't
mean I think we should stop processing them... or eating them. And since
there isn't a "Mad Horse Disease" perhaps we should look into increasing the
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
pearl
2006-02-12 22:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
PLEASE CROSS POST WHEREVER APPROPRIATE!
In defiance of Congress and the expressed will of the American people,
and in favor of three foreign owned horse slaughter plants, USDA
Director Mike Johanns has published in the Federal Register a scheme
that will permit the continued slaughter of horses for human consumption
in spite of a Congressional moratorium.
The scheme was on the part of the animal nut lobby who thought they could
pull a fast one under the rubric of "saving tax dollars" which most
"...prohibit Federal tax dollars from being used to fund the federally
mandated inspection of horses to be slaughtered for human consumption..."
Great idea. I think those processing plants should pay for their own
inspections... and so should other plants processing beef, chickens, duck,
milk, chewing gum, lollypops, bread, nuts, carrots, etc. But that doesn't
mean I think we should stop processing them... or eating them. And since
there isn't a "Mad Horse Disease" perhaps we should look into increasing the
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.

P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..

Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
oscar
2006-02-12 23:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
PLEASE CROSS POST WHEREVER APPROPRIATE!
In defiance of Congress and the expressed will of the American people,
and in favor of three foreign owned horse slaughter plants, USDA
Director Mike Johanns has published in the Federal Register a scheme
that will permit the continued slaughter of horses for human consumption
in spite of a Congressional moratorium.
The scheme was on the part of the animal nut lobby who thought they could
pull a fast one under the rubric of "saving tax dollars" which most
"...prohibit Federal tax dollars from being used to fund the federally
mandated inspection of horses to be slaughtered for human consumption..."
Great idea. I think those processing plants should pay for their own
inspections... and so should other plants processing beef, chickens, duck,
milk, chewing gum, lollypops, bread, nuts, carrots, etc. But that doesn't
mean I think we should stop processing them... or eating them. And since
there isn't a "Mad Horse Disease" perhaps we should look into increasing the
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.
Thank you doctor Pearl. I'll make a note of it!
Post by pearl
P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
Perhaps what you should do is get over your hatred for Bush/Cheney... and
remember, what goes around, comes around... so perhaps someone will pull
your head out of the ground like a carrot... or at least out of your
fertilizer port.
pearl
2006-02-13 01:49:35 UTC
Permalink
<..>
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.
Thank you doctor Pearl. I'll make a note of it!
Of course you will..
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
Perhaps what you should do is get over your hatred for Bush/Cheney...
A Cheney/Bush supporter, eh. How on earth could I guess.
oscar
2006-02-13 02:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
<..>
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.
Thank you doctor Pearl. I'll make a note of it!
Of course you will..
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
Perhaps what you should do is get over your hatred for Bush/Cheney...
A Cheney/Bush supporter, eh. How on earth could I guess.
Silly you... you didn't have to guess. I would have been glad to spell it
out for you and save you all of that effort. Just in case you are working on
some semi-obvious (to you) thought about now, put your brain cell down for a
moment and read on:

I am a registered republican, and I have been since I grew up. I associate
with a variety of folks, but mostly conservatives and libertarians and avoid
liberals, democrats and socialists. I voted for Bush... both of them... I am
a life member of the RNC and run a political website that you wouldn't like.
I have met Cheney, and despite the fact he is a lousy shot, he is a really
good guy who keeps his pants zipped up.

The day I met Dick the streets outside the hall were lined with democrat
protesters. Nothing wrong with that... but I wish they had bothered to take
a bath and iron their clothes before dropping in... this in stark contrast
with those EVIL republicans who arrived in suit and tie and smelling a lot
better than the southern end of a north-bound horse like the democrats
outside.

PS: I wasn't guessing when I mentioned your hatred of Bush... it is as
obvious as the stench from your unshaved pits... but I digress.

Less obvious, so I will help you a little here.... I love horses and my best
friend raises them (but not for food). I also love other animals and am very
active in dog rescue, but I pay for it instead of expecting the government
to do the heavy lifting.

Now you will excuse me but Faith, my Wonder Dog and I are about to have some
turkey for dinner... so you can pick up your brain cell now before you
forget where you put it... it looks so lonely there on the desk.

Toodles....
pearl
2006-02-13 11:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
<..>
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.
Thank you doctor Pearl. I'll make a note of it!
Of course you will..
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
Perhaps what you should do is get over your hatred for Bush/Cheney...
A Cheney/Bush supporter, eh. How on earth could I guess.
Silly you... you didn't have to guess. I would have been glad to spell it
out for you and save you all of that effort. Just in case you are working on
some semi-obvious (to you) thought about now, put your brain cell
(How original.) But you *did* spell it out.. utter contempt for people,
for animals, and for nature. A bunch of psychopaths, the lot of you.

Here, you can go read all about yourself.
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
oscar
2006-02-13 12:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
<..>
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
breeding and processing of horse meat for human consumption.
Rather, you should get over your unhealthy addiction to animal fat.
Thank you doctor Pearl. I'll make a note of it!
Of course you will..
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
P.S. What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter
'Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good'
Sunday, February 12, 2006; Posted: 4:40 p.m. EST (21:40 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html
Perhaps what you should do is get over your hatred for Bush/Cheney...
A Cheney/Bush supporter, eh. How on earth could I guess.
Silly you... you didn't have to guess. I would have been glad to spell it
out for you and save you all of that effort. Just in case you are working on
some semi-obvious (to you) thought about now, put your brain cell
(How original.) But you *did* spell it out.. utter contempt for people,
for animals, and for nature. A bunch of psychopaths, the lot of you.
I love you too, sweetie! XXX There, feel better now?

OK folks, I've changed my mind because of PearlieGirl. She has convinced me
of the error of my ways. I now love all people who seek to enslave me with
their socialistic ideas and commandments. The government should do it all
for us poor hapless creatures called humanoids... at taxpayer (read - the
rich) expense.

As far as animals go, I now support turning Pearl's home into a sanctuary
for oppressed animals everywhere (since I am sure it already smells like
one... since she obviously couldn't use any strong cleaners for fear of
killing endangered germs). Pearl, you are welcome to come live with me under
the bridge if you like... we could curl up in the leaves together and watch
the bats fly past the moon at night with nothing but our fig-leaves on
(after having asked the fig tree for permission, of course). As for Mother
Nature... she is so fragile, as you pointed out in a prior barf, that I am
almost afraid to even approach her with my humble apology for fear of
scaring 20 million years off her growth. How she has made it this far with
MAN around is amazing... what with global warming, ozone holes, melting ice
caps, and the near-loss of her most precious delta with that awful concrete
wall around it.

Yes Pearlie, you vixen luv bunny, if only people understood just how smart
you really are... I am ashamed that you had to point out how I have such
contempt for PEOPLE. I now know I should contain my contempt for
conservatives only, following your most precious example, and become whole
and simpatico with the American Indian. This is great... and I guess that
means I can still go to the casino as long as it is on a reservation and I
walk and don't step on any ants along the way... is that correct?

Thanks - your new convert, and happy new member of "Bullies Anonymous"...
Our motto: Just shut up and help us stamp out people who disagree and have
the effrontery to express it openly.

Oscar
Post by pearl
Here, you can go read all about yourself.
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
Bad Bullies... go suck an egg... er... orange, go suck an orange.
pearl
2006-02-13 13:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Our motto: Just shut up and help us stamp out people who disagree and have
the effrontery to express it openly.
Your motto: Just shut up and stamp out people who disagree with
the slaughter of animals and have the effrontery to express it openly.

You're fooling no one.
O***@Frotz.com
2006-02-13 19:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Our motto: Just shut up and help us stamp out people who disagree and have
the effrontery to express it openly.
Your motto: Just shut up and stamp out people who disagree with
the slaughter of animals and have the effrontery to express it openly.
You're fooling no one.
I wasn't trying to fool anyone... didn't have to... you are already a fool!
pearl
2006-02-13 23:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by O***@Frotz.com
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Our motto: Just shut up and help us stamp out people who disagree and have
the effrontery to express it openly.
Your motto: Just shut up and stamp out people who disagree with
the slaughter of animals and have the effrontery to express it openly.
You're fooling no one.
I wasn't trying to fool anyone... didn't have to... you are already a fool!
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. --Euripides
d***@.
2006-02-13 17:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
pearl
2006-02-14 00:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious? Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
oscar
2006-02-14 01:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious? Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Pearl responded to me above thusly: " Talk sense to a fool and he calls you
foolish. --Euripides

Well Pearl, talk sense to an insane woman during the wrong week of the month
and she calls you everything but the kitchen sink. - Me
pearl
2006-02-14 01:24:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious? Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Pearl responded to me above thusly: " Talk sense to a fool and he calls you
foolish. --Euripides
Well Pearl, talk sense to an insane woman during the wrong week of the month
and she calls you everything but the kitchen sink. - Me
Non sequitur. And I pity your ex.
oscar
2006-02-14 02:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious? Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Pearl responded to me above thusly: " Talk sense to a fool and he calls you
foolish. --Euripides
Well Pearl, talk sense to an insane woman during the wrong week of the month
and she calls you everything but the kitchen sink. - Me
Non sequitur. And I pity your ex.
Well my ex was pretty pitiful most of the time...especially during the
aforementioned week... so I guess it is only fair you are simpatico with
her.

The wrong week of the month is quite generic in its numerical composition.
For some it can be just a few days... and for others it stretches into 25,
26, 27, 28, 362, 363, 364, or even 365 days.

As far as the non sequitur quip... it may well have been an inference or
conclusion on my part that did not necessarily follow from the premises or
evidence, but that in no way nullifies the possibility that it was correct.

Did you know the gray squirrel makes a great base for a home-made soup?

Furthermore, at one point a soup made with a gray squirrel saved my mothers
life. It could have just as easily been a horse... or grizzly. Grandpa was
broke and he went out and SHOT (oh my gawd) the poor innocent baby so mom
could eat. You see, she had rheumatic fever at the time, and was near death
from lack of protein input. But that was no excuse for that little furball
to be winched up by one leg, have its throat slashed, and be butchered,-
all
whilst still conscious... now was it?

Now what was it that one person called you? Oh yes... "asshole!" Now there
is a perfect example of a NON non sequitur.

Toodles
pearl
2006-02-14 02:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
John Wesley
2006-02-14 07:01:07 UTC
Permalink
In article <dsrf4v$8e1$***@reader01.news.esat.net>, ***@signguestbook.ie
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole?

You liberal girls are something else!
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 08:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Wesley
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole?
You liberal girls are something else!
Lesley ("pearl") is something else, isn't she? She is
ostensibly a "vegan" - that is, a (so-called) "ethical"
vegetarian - but her entire contribution here is
about 98% big, stinking, steaming loads of
pseudo-scientific bullshit about non-existent health
issues, super-annuation, and so on. The remaining 2%
is the occasional hyperbolic pre-pubscent outburst
about eating horses or some such nonsense.

What you never will find in any of Lesley's spew is any
semblance of a coherent position of (so-called)
"ethical" vegetarianism. Lesley wouldn't have a clue
of where to begin. Omnivory just "feels" wrong to
Lesley's girlish new-age sensibilities, but she doesn't
have any idea why, so instead she focuses on slapping
together some cockamamie crapola about the health
aspects of eating meat. It's all wrong, too.

BTW, it may interest you to know that Lesley is an
anti-Semitic skinhead.
pearl
2006-02-14 13:06:29 UTC
Permalink
"Leif Erikson" <***@thedismalscience.net>

The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm

Faking quotes, forged posts, lies, filth, harassment.
http://www.iol.ie/~creature/boiled%20ball.html
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 15:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Faking quotes,
Faking nothing, Lesley.
oscar
2006-02-14 13:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Wesley
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole? You liberal girls are something
else!
Lesley ("pearl") is something else, isn't she? She is ostensibly a
"vegan" - that is, a (so-called) "ethical" vegetarian - but her entire
contribution here is about 98% big, stinking, steaming loads of
pseudo-scientific bullshit about non-existent health issues,
super-annuation, and so on. The remaining 2% is the occasional hyperbolic
pre-pubscent outburst about eating horses or some such nonsense.
I am new here but it had already struck me that she had little substance to
offer, and absolutely no originality in any of her posts. It seemed to me
that whenever backed into an intellectual corner she would thrust a quote
from a dead man in my direction to bolster her alleged position.
What you never will find in any of Lesley's spew is any semblance of a
coherent position of (so-called) "ethical" vegetarianism. Lesley wouldn't
have a clue of where to begin.
I have noticed that she assiduously avoided traveling in any area of the
discussion where she might have to conjure up substance, falling back on
emotion whenever the road gets the least bit bumpy. There was precious
little "meat" in her responses to me. (pun intended)
Omnivory just "feels" wrong to Lesley's girlish new-age sensibilities, but
she doesn't have any idea why, so instead she focuses on slapping together
some cockamamie crapola about the health aspects of eating meat. It's all
wrong, too.
I have two so-called vegan friends. One follows the concept for health
reasons... he is quite sensitive to high protein foods when consumed in
concentration at one time. He will sit down with anyone and order what he
wants and never say a word about what you order... except to honestly
observe that it looks or even smells good. He will eat perhaps a bite or two
(at most) off his wife's steak for example, but never will give you issue
over the "killing animals" guilt crapola. The other one isn't as easy to eat
with. His family, all meat eaters, have taken the edge off the situation to
some degree, but he still tries to make you feel like hell over your dinner
whenever he thinks he can slip one in on you. I just usually laugh and say,
"No, it was dead when they brought it to me" and he usually backs off.
Interestingly, this past year he was hospitalized and several doctors told
him his diet was too restrictive... but he won't listen... and he is
suffering because of it.
BTW, it may interest you to know that Lesley is an anti-Semitic skinhead.
That would be no surprise to me... but I will take the time to judge that
for myself. Certainly she seems to have all the ingredients to make a good
illogical hater of segments of the population based on feelings alone. Deep
levels of thought don't appear to have any place in her position, no matter
on which side of an issue she finds herself.

Oh well.
pearl
2006-02-14 14:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
I am new here but it had already struck me that she had little substance to
offer, and absolutely no originality in any of her posts. It seemed to me
that whenever backed into an intellectual corner she would thrust a quote
from a dead man in my direction to bolster her alleged position.
Here's another one for you:

"All cruelty springs from weakness." (Seneca, 4BC-AD65)
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
oscar
2006-02-14 15:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
I am new here but it had already struck me that she had little substance to
offer, and absolutely no originality in any of her posts. It seemed to me
that whenever backed into an intellectual corner she would thrust a quote
from a dead man in my direction to bolster her alleged position.
"All cruelty springs from weakness." (Seneca, 4BC-AD65)
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
"Methinks she doth protest too much,
She doth protest too much methinks." (Shakespeare - also dead!)

And Ophelia goes crazy and drowns herself.
Poor Pearl... err, I mean Ophelia...
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 15:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by John Wesley
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole? You liberal girls are something
else!
Lesley ("pearl") is something else, isn't she? She is ostensibly a
"vegan" - that is, a (so-called) "ethical" vegetarian - but her entire
contribution here is about 98% big, stinking, steaming loads of
pseudo-scientific bullshit about non-existent health issues,
super-annuation, and so on. The remaining 2% is the occasional hyperbolic
pre-pubscent outburst about eating horses or some such nonsense.
I am new here but it had already struck me that she had little substance to
offer, and absolutely no originality in any of her posts. It seemed to me
that whenever backed into an intellectual corner she would thrust a quote
from a dead man in my direction to bolster her alleged position.
You've got it. She doesn't have any original material
at all, and ZERO expertise. She's a foot masseuse
("reflexologist" - quackery) in Ireland.
Post by oscar
What you never will find in any of Lesley's spew is any semblance of a
coherent position of (so-called) "ethical" vegetarianism. Lesley wouldn't
have a clue of where to begin.
I have noticed that she assiduously avoided traveling in any area of the
discussion where she might have to conjure up substance, falling back on
emotion whenever the road gets the least bit bumpy. There was precious
little "meat" in her responses to me. (pun intended)
Omnivory just "feels" wrong to Lesley's girlish new-age sensibilities, but
she doesn't have any idea why, so instead she focuses on slapping together
some cockamamie crapola about the health aspects of eating meat. It's all
wrong, too.
I have two so-called vegan friends. One follows the concept for health
reasons... he is quite sensitive to high protein foods when consumed in
concentration at one time. He will sit down with anyone and order what he
wants and never say a word about what you order... except to honestly
observe that it looks or even smells good. He will eat perhaps a bite or two
(at most) off his wife's steak for example, but never will give you issue
over the "killing animals" guilt crapola. The other one isn't as easy to eat
with. His family, all meat eaters, have taken the edge off the situation to
some degree, but he still tries to make you feel like hell over your dinner
whenever he thinks he can slip one in on you. I just usually laugh and say,
"No, it was dead when they brought it to me" and he usually backs off.
Interestingly, this past year he was hospitalized and several doctors told
him his diet was too restrictive... but he won't listen... and he is
suffering because of it.
BTW, it may interest you to know that Lesley is an anti-Semitic skinhead.
That would be no surprise to me... but I will take the time to judge that
for myself. Certainly she seems to have all the ingredients to make a good
illogical hater of segments of the population based on feelings alone. Deep
levels of thought don't appear to have any place in her position, no matter
on which side of an issue she finds herself.
Oh well.
pearl
2006-02-14 13:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Wesley
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole?
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'

The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
oscar
2006-02-14 14:53:51 UTC
Permalink
PearlieGirl... student of Psychobabelology, anal...ized yet another fellow
Post by pearl
Post by John Wesley
says...
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
"asshole!"
Projection.
You want a projection in your asshole?
Begin anal...ysis
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Post by pearl
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'
The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------
End anal...ysis

Pearl-Drops,

Since you are into Dr. Sigmoid Fraud stuff... what do you call a person who
associates with "bullies" when they could easily escape and save themselves
the pain? Most people who are really "bullied" get away from the source of
harassment if it is at all possible. Others..., who seem to thrive on (or at
least need) the "pain" but who cry wolf are either (1) faking it for
attention or (2) have a serious problem with masochism... deriving sexual
pleasure or other gratification from their proximity and association with
the dominator(s), or (3) are just plain stupid.

The justification for this continued association usually follows along these
lines: I am not going to go away... it is my right to participate... or...
I wouldn't give them (the alleged abuser or bully) the satisfaction of
thinking they won... or some other excuse to cover-up the fact that the
so-called abused party is really getting their jollies from it all. That
wouldn't be PC and might indicate a psychological anomaly/imbalance of their
own... which they are not prepared to admit or accept.

So PearlieGirl... are you a nut, a pervert, or just dumber than a door
handle?

Just curious...
pearl
2006-02-14 15:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
So PearlieGirl... are you a nut, a pervert, or just dumber than a door
handle?
"A favored technique is to debilitate your identity [personally,
I hate the term self-esteem] by levelling false accusations
and/or questioning your honesty, fidelity, trustworthiness,
your "true" motivations, your "real" character, your sanity
and judgement."
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/psychopath.htm
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 15:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
So PearlieGirl... are you a nut, a pervert, or just dumber than a door
handle?
"A favored technique blah blah blah
Lesley's technique is to attempt to drown the reader in
bullshit citation.
oscar
2006-02-14 16:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Let me add to your obviously extensive collection of non-original
thoughts...
(see below)... and enjoy!
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
So PearlieGirl... are you a nut, a pervert, or just dumber than a door
handle?
"A favored technique is to debilitate your identity [personally,
I hate the term self-esteem] by levelling false accusations
and/or questioning your honesty, fidelity, trustworthiness,
your "true" motivations, your "real" character, your sanity
and judgement."
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/psychopath.htm
"Information Superhighway is really an acronym for 'Interactive
Network For Organizing, Retrieving, Manipulating, Accessing And
Transferring Information On National Systems, Unleashing Practically
Every Rebellious Human Intelligence, Gratifying Hackers, Wiseacres,
And Yahoos'." - Keven Kwaku

"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your
trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."- Theodore Roosevelt

Enjoyment is not a goal, it is a feeling that accompanies important
ongoing activity. -- Paul Goodman

Every man stamps his value on himself... man is made great or small
by his own will. -- J.C.F. von Schiller

The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with composure one
heavy mischance after another, not because he does not feel them, but
because he is a man of high and heroic temper. -- Aristotle

He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and
fears is more than a king. -- John Milton (1608-1674) English Poet

I find that it is not the circumstances in which we are placed, but
the spirit in which we face them, that constitutes our comfort.
-- Elizabeth T. King

The most important thing I have learned over the years is the
difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self
seriously. The first is imperative, and the second disastrous.
-- Margaret Fontey

No matter who says what, you should accept it with a smile and do
your own work. -- Mother Teresa (1910-1997) Albanian Missionary

He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but
rejoices in what he has. -- Epictetus (55-135 AD) Greek Philosopher

A prudent man will think more important what fate has conceded to
him, than what it has denied.
-- Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658) Spanish Philosopher

People call me an optimist, but I'm really an appreciator....When I
was six years old and had scarlet fever, the first of the miracle
drugs, sulfanilamide, saved my life. I'm grateful for computers and
photocopiers...I appreciate where we've come from.
-- Julian Simon (1933-1998) American Academic

Pain nourishes courage. You can't be brave if you've only had
wonderful things happen to you.
-- Mary Tyler Moore (1937-) American Actress

He who finds diamonds must grapple in mud and mire because diamonds
are not found in polished stones. They are made. -- Henry B. Wilson

The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be
in reality what we would appear to be.
-- Socrates (469-399 BC) Greek Philosopher

I wept because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no feet.
-- Persian saying, Ancient

If you have made mistakes...there is always another chance for
you...you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this
thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying
down. -- Mary Pickford (1893-1979) Canadian Actress

The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior
teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires.
-- William Arthur Ward

The sign of intelligent people is their ability to control emotions
by the application of reason.
-- Marya Mannes (1904-1990) American Journalist
oscar
2006-02-14 16:23:21 UTC
Permalink
L.E. My last post was directed toward ol' Pearl... not you. Sorry for the
unfortunate juxtaposition with your last comment. Oscar

Pearl... read 'em and weep... all others, enjoy!
Post by oscar
Let me add to your obviously extensive collection of non-original
thoughts...
(see below)... and enjoy!
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
So PearlieGirl... are you a nut, a pervert, or just dumber than a door
handle?
"A favored technique is to debilitate your identity [personally,
I hate the term self-esteem] by levelling false accusations
and/or questioning your honesty, fidelity, trustworthiness,
your "true" motivations, your "real" character, your sanity
and judgement."
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/psychopath.htm
"Information Superhighway is really an acronym for 'Interactive
Network For Organizing, Retrieving, Manipulating, Accessing And
Transferring Information On National Systems, Unleashing Practically
Every Rebellious Human Intelligence, Gratifying Hackers, Wiseacres,
And Yahoos'." - Keven Kwaku
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your
trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."- Theodore Roosevelt
Enjoyment is not a goal, it is a feeling that accompanies important
ongoing activity. -- Paul Goodman
Every man stamps his value on himself... man is made great or small
by his own will. -- J.C.F. von Schiller
The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with composure one
heavy mischance after another, not because he does not feel them, but
because he is a man of high and heroic temper. -- Aristotle
He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and
fears is more than a king. -- John Milton (1608-1674) English Poet
I find that it is not the circumstances in which we are placed, but
the spirit in which we face them, that constitutes our comfort.
-- Elizabeth T. King
The most important thing I have learned over the years is the
difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self
seriously. The first is imperative, and the second disastrous.
-- Margaret Fontey
No matter who says what, you should accept it with a smile and do
your own work. -- Mother Teresa (1910-1997) Albanian Missionary
He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but
rejoices in what he has. -- Epictetus (55-135 AD) Greek Philosopher
A prudent man will think more important what fate has conceded to
him, than what it has denied.
-- Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658) Spanish Philosopher
People call me an optimist, but I'm really an appreciator....When I
was six years old and had scarlet fever, the first of the miracle
drugs, sulfanilamide, saved my life. I'm grateful for computers and
photocopiers...I appreciate where we've come from.
-- Julian Simon (1933-1998) American Academic
Pain nourishes courage. You can't be brave if you've only had
wonderful things happen to you.
-- Mary Tyler Moore (1937-) American Actress
He who finds diamonds must grapple in mud and mire because diamonds
are not found in polished stones. They are made. -- Henry B. Wilson
The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be
in reality what we would appear to be.
-- Socrates (469-399 BC) Greek Philosopher
I wept because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no feet.
-- Persian saying, Ancient
If you have made mistakes...there is always another chance for
you...you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this
thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying
down. -- Mary Pickford (1893-1979) Canadian Actress
The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior
teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires.
-- William Arthur Ward
The sign of intelligent people is their ability to control emotions
by the application of reason.
-- Marya Mannes (1904-1990) American Journalist
d***@.
2006-02-14 18:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife in all the ways that most people
do other than hunting and growing crops to feed animals, while you
advocate killing them to grow crops to feed humans, etc. And now
you advocate animals being killed by grizzly bears and wolves, as
well as grizzly bears starving to death. All of these things that you
advocate involve more suffering than a quick humane death in a
slaughterhouse.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 18:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate
You advocate livestock animals being bred because you foolishly think
"getting to experience life" is a benefit for them; it is not.
pearl
2006-02-14 23:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
How do you know how the animals you eat of lived and died?
Post by d***@.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife
You are lying. I do no such thing.

<..>
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Some more questions for you, david:
#
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
#
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
oscar
2006-02-15 03:10:52 UTC
Permalink
"pearl" <***@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message news:dstpf5$3nu$***@reader01.news.esat.net...

< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.

Well Pearlie... have you done went and found some questions to
cut-&-paste... or were these your first attempt at an intellectual
contribution?

Glad to oblige you here...
Post by pearl
#
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
Which "wild rooster" Pearl... the rare "Labuyo" of Tawi-Tawi Province in the
Philippines, or the wild rooster indigenous to Maui and Kauai Hawaii? These
fellows have very long spurs so they can engage in territorial battles with
other roosters
.
Post by pearl
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
Damn if I know... I guess if they haven't had the stuffing (pun intended)
kicked out of them yet in the fight... they physically could flee. That
behavior would be very unlikely, however.
Post by pearl
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
No way... they are bred to enhance their ability to play the stock market.
However, that can be aggressive at times, so I am told.
Post by pearl
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
Are men goaded into mowing the lawn by their wives?
Post by pearl
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
Some are probably kicked out because they are worthless "chicken shits" in
the ring. Smart roosters learn to act stupid so they can be relieved of
duty... much like calling in sick when you are not, or feigning a headache
when the hubby wants to... well... you know!.

These are fun....

Ooooo, goodie, more!
Post by pearl
#
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
None...! That would taste awful.
Post by pearl
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
See answer above... though some beets do have an "earthy" taste to them...
perhaps that is why. I'd love to see the machine the farmers use to turn
earth into plant foods or livestock.
Post by pearl
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
Many can outrun Farmer Jones' old Farmall tractor, though I hear he had some
"pipes" and a turbocharger installed. Let's hope it doesn't blow up at full
throttle!
Post by pearl
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
It's kinda hard to have a good fight if they are all on the same side.
Post by pearl
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
Well if questions #6 and #7 above are any indication... no! Those tricky
farmers have that secret machine which converts whole hectares of land into
food... I say we save the extra step we have been led to believe is
necessary by those greedy farmers... in fact I think the Federal Government
should pay us for our loss and litigate those bastards until their bib
overalls fall off!
Post by pearl
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
Same answer as #10...
pearl
2006-02-15 13:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.
With yet more BS.

<..>
oscar
2006-02-15 14:34:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.
With yet more BS.
Bully... !


Just illustrating BS with BS PearlieGate... The questions were either total
crap or bait, which was quite obvious because of their unsophisticated
wording. The phrase that came to mind when I saw them was GIGO (garbage in -
garbage out!) If you came up with thoughtful and realistic questions I, and
others might be prepared to respond in kind... but alas, why should someone
Post by pearl
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
First... the activities this question refers to are more commonly called
"cock fights" but I understand your aversion to the word "cock." Second, the
premise on which the question is based is absurd. If they had the ability to
show up in the first place why wouldn't they have the ability to flee. It is
a baited question. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else. You
were getting ready to compare and contrast the difference between a
"natural" cock fight to a staged one. Very transparent. A more realistic
question to a thoughtful discussion would be something along the lines of,
"Do the less aggressive cocks in a fight typically exhibit fleeing behavior
at some point, and to what extent do the more aggressive cocks pursue the
vanquished?

I anyone here would like real information on this subject, skipping the
Pearlized crap for efficiency, you might try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_fighting

BTW: I personally do not approve of such activities but still do not think
it is the proper function of the "Federal Government" under the Constitution
to intervene.

But thanks for the diversion and levity. It was a fun little exercise while
I munched gleefully on my roast chicken with orange sauce, buttered lima
beans, creamed corn and another piece of that banana cream pie... with real
whipped cows cream on top... Mmmmoooo!

However... in keeping with your quality, serious-level discussion of this
issue I offer the following:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Louisiana State Police received reports of illegal cock fights being
held in the area around LaFayette, and duly dispatched the infamous
detective Desormeaux to investigate. He reported to his sergeant the next
morning.

"Dey is tree main groups in dis cock fightin'" he began.

"Good work. Who are they?" the sergeant asked.

Desormeaux replied confidently, "De Aggies, de Cajuns, and de Mafia."

Puzzled, the sergeant asked, "How did you find that out in one night?"

"Well," he replied, "I went down and done seen dat cock fight. I knowed the
Aggies was involved when a duck was entered in the fight."

The sergeant nodded, "I'll buy that. But what about the others?"

Desmoreaux intoned knowingly, "Well, I knowed de Cajuns was involved when
summbody bet on de duck."

"Ah," sighed the sergeant, "And how did you deduce the Mafia was involved?"

"De duck won."

Toodles...
pearl
2006-02-15 15:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.
With yet more BS.
Bully... !
No. Fact.
Post by oscar
Just illustrating BS with BS
Thanks for the admission.
Post by oscar
PearlieGate... The questions were either total
crap or bait, which was quite obvious because of their unsophisticated
wording.
They were addressed to a certain person, in a specific way,
for a specific reason, about all of which you know nothing.
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
... If they had the ability to
show up in the first place why wouldn't they have the ability to flee.
So oscar's answer to question number 2 is 'yes'.
Post by oscar
It is
a baited question. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else.
It is not 'baited', the answer could be given by the average 8 year old.
Post by oscar
You
were getting ready to compare and contrast the difference between a
"natural" cock fight to a staged one.
No shit.
Post by oscar
Very transparent.
The other poster is claiming roosters willingly fight in that way.

What line of argument would you otherwise expect?
Post by oscar
A more realistic
question to a thoughtful discussion would be something along the lines of,
"Do the less aggressive cocks in a fight typically exhibit fleeing behavior
at some point, and to what extent do the more aggressive cocks pursue the
vanquished?
No one's stopping you from starting your own discussion.
Post by oscar
I anyone here would like real information on this subject, skipping the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_fighting
Not comprehensive enough for this discussion.

Now kindly butt out.

<..>
oscar
2006-02-16 02:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.
With yet more BS.
Bully... !
No. Fact.
Post by oscar
Just illustrating BS with BS
Thanks for the admission.
Post by oscar
PearlieGate... The questions were either total
crap or bait, which was quite obvious because of their unsophisticated
wording.
They were addressed to a certain person, in a specific way,
for a specific reason, about all of which you know nothing.
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
... If they had the ability to
show up in the first place why wouldn't they have the ability to flee.
So oscar's answer to question number 2 is 'yes'.
Post by oscar
It is
a baited question. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else.
It is not 'baited', the answer could be given by the average 8 year old.
Post by oscar
You
were getting ready to compare and contrast the difference between a
"natural" cock fight to a staged one.
No shit.
Post by oscar
Very transparent.
The other poster is claiming roosters willingly fight in that way.
What line of argument would you otherwise expect?
Post by oscar
A more realistic
question to a thoughtful discussion would be something along the lines of,
"Do the less aggressive cocks in a fight typically exhibit fleeing behavior
at some point, and to what extent do the more aggressive cocks pursue the
vanquished?
No one's stopping you from starting your own discussion.
Post by oscar
I anyone here would like real information on this subject, skipping the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_fighting
Not comprehensive enough for this discussion.
Now kindly butt out.
The only butt that's out is yours....
pearl
2006-02-16 12:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
< a whole lot of sniping>
I'm not David... and I do not respond for him... it is I, Oscar... at your
service.
With yet more BS.
Bully... !
No. Fact.
Post by oscar
Just illustrating BS with BS
Thanks for the admission.
Post by oscar
PearlieGate... The questions were either total
crap or bait, which was quite obvious because of their unsophisticated
wording.
They were addressed to a certain person, in a specific way,
for a specific reason, about all of which you know nothing.
Post by oscar
Post by pearl
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
... If they had the ability to
show up in the first place why wouldn't they have the ability to flee.
So oscar's answer to question number 2 is 'yes'.
Post by oscar
It is
a baited question. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else.
It is not 'baited', the answer could be given by the average 8 year old.
Post by oscar
You
were getting ready to compare and contrast the difference between a
"natural" cock fight to a staged one.
No shit.
Post by oscar
Very transparent.
The other poster is claiming roosters willingly fight in that way.
What line of argument would you otherwise expect?
Post by oscar
A more realistic
question to a thoughtful discussion would be something along the lines of,
"Do the less aggressive cocks in a fight typically exhibit fleeing behavior
at some point, and to what extent do the more aggressive cocks pursue the
vanquished?
No one's stopping you from starting your own discussion.
Post by oscar
I anyone here would like real information on this subject, skipping the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_fighting
Not comprehensive enough for this discussion.
Now kindly butt out.
The only butt that's out is yours....
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'

The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
oscar
2006-02-16 13:57:04 UTC
Permalink
"pearl" <***@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message news:dt1pi4$ir5$***@reader01.news.esat.net...

Pearl, the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful, original thinking, grassroots
defender of homeless amoeba everywhere, motivational speaker, and author of
" The Natural Cook - 1001 Ways To Serve Turnip Peelings ," and her two
companion books, " Red Meat Makes You A Meanie ," and " Grease This ! ,"
while showing the world her devotion to all creatures, large and small...
but mostly small... helped me to understand the errors of my ways when she
said.....
Post by pearl
Now kindly butt out.
In a later seminal posting she selflessly expanded on her lifelong goal to
be helpful, insightful, intellectually stimulating and understanding by
advocating her special live-and-let-live style of bringing the world to her
point of view. Using her splendidly poignant and uniquely sagacious
cut-and-paste style she shared, yet again, her polymathic comprehension of
the issues of the day with the following reply... for the n'th time just to
be sure all who might benefit from her profoundly savant perspective were
given the opportunity... by expanding on the above with....
Post by pearl
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'
The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
Cockeyed British spelling peculiarities notwithstanding, could the world
exist without her... well, not in its present form for sure.
pearl
2006-02-16 14:24:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Pearl, the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful, original thinking, grassroots
defender of homeless amoeba everywhere, motivational speaker, and author of
" The Natural Cook - 1001 Ways To Serve Turnip Peelings ," and her two
companion books, " Red Meat Makes You A Meanie ," and " Grease This ! ,"
while showing the world her devotion to all creatures, large and small...
but mostly small... helped me to understand the errors of my ways when she
said.....
Post by pearl
Now kindly butt out.
In a later seminal posting she selflessly expanded on her lifelong goal to
be helpful, insightful, intellectually stimulating and understanding by
advocating her special live-and-let-live style of bringing the world to her
point of view. Using her splendidly poignant and uniquely sagacious
cut-and-paste style she shared, yet again, her polymathic comprehension of
the issues of the day with the following reply... for the n'th time just to
be sure all who might benefit from her profoundly savant perspective were
given the opportunity... by expanding on the above with....
Post by pearl
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'
The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
Cockeyed British spelling peculiarities notwithstanding, could the world
exist without her... well, not in its present form for sure.
How sweet.
oscar
2006-02-16 14:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Pearl, the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful, original thinking, grassroots
defender of homeless amoeba everywhere, motivational speaker, and author of
" The Natural Cook - 1001 Ways To Serve Turnip Peelings ," and her two
companion books, " Red Meat Makes You A Meanie ," and " Grease This ! ,"
while showing the world her devotion to all creatures, large and small...
but mostly small... helped me to understand the errors of my ways when she
said.....
Post by pearl
Now kindly butt out.
In a later seminal posting she selflessly expanded on her lifelong goal to
be helpful, insightful, intellectually stimulating and understanding by
advocating her special live-and-let-live style of bringing the world to her
point of view. Using her splendidly poignant and uniquely sagacious
cut-and-paste style she shared, yet again, her polymathic comprehension of
the issues of the day with the following reply... for the n'th time just to
be sure all who might benefit from her profoundly savant perspective were
given the opportunity... by expanding on the above with....
Post by pearl
'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours
etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy
and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be
painful), and to distract and divert attention away from
themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved
through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this,
every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their
target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.'
The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm
Cockeyed British spelling peculiarities notwithstanding, could the world
exist without her... well, not in its present form for sure.
How sweet.
Great teachers make great students.... the pleasure was all mine!
d***@.
2006-02-15 20:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
How do you know how the animals you eat of lived and died?
Post by d***@.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife
You are lying. I do no such thing.
<..>
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Some more questions
Explain what I asked, if you think you can.
pearl
2006-02-15 21:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
How do you know how the animals you eat of lived and died?
Well?
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife
You are lying. I do no such thing.
Lying about people is -wrong-, david.
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
<..>
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Some more questions
Explain what I asked, if you think you can.
I already have, in a roundabout way. I think you know it,
but to see that you understand my explanation, I need you
to answer the following, which you predictably snipped:
#
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
#
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
O***@Frotz.com
2006-02-15 23:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
How do you know how the animals you eat of lived and died?
Well?
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife
You are lying. I do no such thing.
Lying about people is -wrong-, david.
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
<..>
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Some more questions
Explain what I asked, if you think you can.
I already have, in a roundabout way. I think you know it,
but to see that you understand my explanation, I need you
#
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
#
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
Aw... come on dh... answer her questions... they are fun and super easy, and
it will give me something to read while I choke down my Asparagus Fingers
and Toad Stool Shake for dinner... not!
d***@.
2006-02-20 17:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by O***@Frotz.com
Aw... come on dh... answer her questions...
If I answer her, then she'll never answer what I asked her half
ass first...but then she would never do that anyway, most likely.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
they are fun and super easy, and
it will give me something to read while I choke down my Asparagus Fingers
and Toad Stool Shake for dinner... not!
LOL! Okay, I'll answer her crap as best I can, and you can feel
free to help her with whatever I miss, even though there is no true
help for people like her:

1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?

Quite common.

2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?

Not the ones who are injured too badly, or blinded, which is
very common.

3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?

They are bred to maintain it.

4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?

No.

5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?

They can stop fighting any time they want to.

6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?

I don't know.

7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?

I don't know.

8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?

Some are. Some are not.
(it seems even an "ara" should have been able to figure
that one out)

9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?

It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.

10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?

It's necessary in order for those plants to exist.

11. Is raising livestock necessary?

It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
oscar
2006-02-21 02:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Hey dh... way to go! I've inserted a few thoughts below with your responses.
Of course I have treated this series of cross-examination questions with a
bit more frivolity that you... perhaps between the two of us something might
sink in... but I am not counting on it.
Post by d***@.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
Aw... come on dh... answer her questions...
If I answer her, then she'll never answer what I asked her half
ass first...but then she would never do that anyway, most likely.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
they are fun and super easy, and
it will give me something to read while I choke down my Asparagus Fingers
and Toad Stool Shake for dinner... not!
LOL! Okay, I'll answer her crap as best I can, and you can feel
free to help her with whatever I miss, even though there is no true
We are on the same page there...
Post by d***@.
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
Quite common.
You would think almost everyone would have seen a wild animal program or two
on TV some time where a couple of (usually, but not always) male lizards or
some other creatures were fighting "to the death" but I guess not. This was
obviously a dumb question that you treated with more respect that I consider
it deserved.
Post by d***@.
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
Not the ones who are injured too badly, or blinded, which is
very common.
Again... begging the obvious.
Post by d***@.
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
They are bred to maintain it.
You mean, dh, that mother nature put this behavior into these poor creatures
in the wild... and... and... we are not going to fix what nature did wrong?
Well, when we obviously know better than nature what is right, it would be
immoral not to fix the screw-up! Are we not better than old mother nature?
Ohhh I almost forgot, we were another abysmal failure of the old girl.
Post by d***@.
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
No.
I personally can't say for sure, but I would seriously doubt they need much
input from humans to perform, as they are wired by that pervert, mother
nature.
Post by d***@.
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
They can stop fighting any time they want to.
Good point dh, if they were as smart as some here think... like the
dolphins, ravens, grizzly - everyone except humans - they would just shake
hands and go out for a beer or two and say "screw these humans."
Post by d***@.
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
I don't know.
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
I don't know.
My opinion... she was going to make some asinine comment about how efficient
growing soybeans and alfalfa is compared to the inputs needed for a pound of
beef. It is true. But so what? Building mud huts is more efficient than
harvesting trees for a home, but I don't want to live in a mud hut... I like
a good steak better than I like collard greens... a lot better as a matter
of fact... so I pay the price for the beef and eat in in a kitchen made of
wood. Why this is any skin off her nose is beyond me.
Post by d***@.
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
Some are. Some are not.
(it seems even an "ara" should have been able to figure
that one out)
You give them too much credit. Again I think she was ready to point out that
Randy Raccoon could avoid Farmer Brown's tractor wheels and live to see
another sunset. She forgot some creatures nest in the field and are lost
because they can't get away. Oh well. But then, I guess she could make a
case for skipping the artificial food creation and go back to a simple
"gathering" society. I am sure the average person wants to come home at
night and go out in the woods to pick berries and dig roots for dinner. But
then, if they had their way we wouldn't go to work in the first place...
just like many folks featured in National Geographic.
Post by d***@.
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
It's necessary in order for those plants to exist.
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
or with what quality of life they are able to do so... it is about
control... people control. These issues are raised because they can be
whipped into emotional ammunition for their cannon to fire in order to win
their real battle.

They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives. They are not
satisfied to be a vegan themselves and lead by example. That takes too long
and is not ever going to be as effective as whipping up enough emotional
basket cases to pass some type of legislation making it illegal to do
anything without their permission. They want to control your food (or lack
thereof) your transportation, your education, your political tendencies...
etc. To roll it up into a few words... they want to control "society." The
reasons are too complex and numerous to go into here but this is where they
are headed in my opinion.

Thanks for responding,

Oscar
pearl
2006-02-21 14:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Two birds (not lawyers), with one stone, so to speak. Nice.
Post by oscar
Hey dh... way to go! I've inserted a few thoughts below with your responses.
Of course I have treated this series of cross-examination questions with a
bit more frivolity that you... perhaps between the two of us something might
sink in... but I am not counting on it.
Post by d***@.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
Aw... come on dh... answer her questions...
If I answer her, then she'll never answer what I asked her half
ass first...but then she would never do that anyway, most likely.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
they are fun and super easy, and
it will give me something to read while I choke down my Asparagus Fingers
and Toad Stool Shake for dinner... not!
LOL! Okay, I'll answer her crap as best I can, and you can feel
free to help her with whatever I miss, even though there is no true
We are on the same page there...
'17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of
the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the
discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes
of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This
works especially well with companions who can 'argue'
with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion
arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents.
If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents
and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to
make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally
render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will
you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even
if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can
further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive
they are to criticism.'
http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
Quite common.
You would think almost everyone would have seen a wild animal program or two
on TV some time where a couple of (usually, but not always) male lizards or
some other creatures were fighting "to the death" but I guess not. This was
obviously a dumb question that you treated with more respect that I consider
it deserved.
'Describing a serious fight that broke out between roosters
penned up together, McBride, et al. state: "A fight of this
type was never seen in the wild. Its fatal end was due
possibly to the restriction of movements in the pen, as
well as to the inability of a defeated bird to escape by
flying into a tree" (158).
..
http://www.upc-online.org/cockfighting/foragers.html

'The only time that a rooster will fight to the death is
when protecting his flock from a predator. This natural
behavior, so important to the success of a flock, is
very different from what happens in staged cockfights.
[1] '
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfighting
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
Not the ones who are injured too badly, or blinded, which is
very common.
Again... begging the obvious.
'Field studies of wild, feral, and domestic chickens show
a complex social life with virtually no fighting. "No serious
fights were observed," according to a 13-month study of
feral chickens on Northwest Island off the coast of
Queensland, Australia (McBride, et al., 135). This study
depicts in detail the courtly and protective behavior of
the cock, or rooster, towards his hens and chicks.'
http://www.upc-online.org/cockfighting/foragers.html

'Roosters will naturally fight over food, territory, or mates,
but the fights exist generally only to establish dominance
within a group (the pecking order) and rarely result in
serious injury. '
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfighting
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
They are bred to maintain it.
You mean, dh, that mother nature put this behavior into these poor creatures
in the wild... and... and... we are not going to fix what nature did wrong?
Well, when we obviously know better than nature what is right, it would be
immoral not to fix the screw-up! Are we not better than old mother nature?
Ohhh I almost forgot, we were another abysmal failure of the old girl.
"The mentality of the domestic game cock is as much a product
of artificial selection as is the physical character of a crest in the
Polish fowl and the physiological function of increased fertility."
(William Beebe, Pheasants: Their Lives and Homes, Doubleday,
Doran and Company, 1936.)

In other words, domesticated strains of Red Jungle Fowl have
been bred to enhance the "fighting" characteristic, to the degree
that it is heritable. Male birds who fail to fight simply are not
bred. Indeed, they are not allowed to live. Those who "fight"
normally, are also avoided. It is only those who are truly
abnormal in the manner in which they attack male competitors
that have subsequently been used for breeding.
..'
http://www.upc-online.org/cockfighting/62705roostersfight.htm
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
No.
I personally can't say for sure, but I would seriously doubt they need much
input from humans to perform, as they are wired by that pervert, mother
nature.
'It is only those who are truly abnormal in the manner in
which they attack male competitors that have subsequently
been used for breeding.

And even that does not satisfy the cock-fighters, so they
augment the natural spurs on the birds' tarsi with artificial
ones, prod the birds with close contact, and confine them
in absurdly small spaces lacking in vegetative cover or
complex visual stimuli in order to achieve the degree of
injury and death that attends cock-fighting. It is an entirely
contrived and artificial situation using birds whose
behaviour simply does not exist in nature, except to a
shadowy, nascent degree - brief encounters with much
apparent fury but little or, far more likely, no damage.
Damaging the opponent is not the purpose of these
encounters; it is the purpose of cock-fighting.
..'
http://www.upc-online.org/cockfighting/62705roostersfight.htm
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
They can stop fighting any time they want to.
Good point dh, if they were as smart as some here think... like the
dolphins, ravens, grizzly - everyone except humans - they would just shake
hands and go out for a beer or two and say "screw these humans."
'Pairs of birds, bred to be as aggressive as possible and
sometimes given steroids or other drugs (such as caffeine,
strychnine, epinephrine, amphetamines, and methamphetamines),
are placed together and forced to fight until a winner is declared.
Often, the loser is killed.

Fighting birds are isolated unless in the arena, preventing them
from learning and recognizing the natural signals that chickens
normally display in tense situations and when attempting to
keep the peace within or between flocks. Their only interaction
with other birds occurs when they are trained to attack them.
Roosters are trained to view their opponents as potentially
deadly predators, and they react as such when placed in a
fighting arena, where they are usually forced to fight until they
can do so no more. [2]
...'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfighting
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
I don't know.
'The 7 billion livestock animals in the United States consume
five times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire
American population.
..
About 26 million tons of the livestock feed comes from
grains and 15 million tons from forage crops.
..
More than 302 million hectares of land are devoted to
producing feed for the U.S. livestock population -- about
272 million hectares in pasture and about 30 million hectares
for cultivated feed grains.
..
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug97/livestock.hrs.html

- More than 302 million hectares.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
I don't know.
U.S acres
Total dried beans and peas 2,140,851
Peanuts 1,436,034
Potatoes 1,309,963
Rice 2,424,864
Total sugar 2,172,550
Vegetables 3,264,343
http://ca.water.usgs.gov/pnsp/circ1131/table2.html

= 12,748,605 acres; (* 0.4047) = 5,159,360 hectares.
+
Orchards, vineyards, and nursery 4,462,591 acres
(= 1,806,010 hectares)
http://ca.water.usgs.gov/pnsp/circ1131/table6.html
+
6 million hectares grain (based on the above from Cornell).
=
Total: 12,965,370 hectares, .. say 13 million hectares.
Post by oscar
My opinion... she was going to make some asinine comment about how efficient
growing soybeans and alfalfa is compared to the inputs needed for a pound of
beef. It is true. But so what? Building mud huts is more efficient than
harvesting trees for a home, but I don't want to live in a mud hut... I like
a good steak better than I like collard greens... a lot better as a matter
of fact... so I pay the price for the beef and eat in in a kitchen made of
wood. Why this is any skin off her nose is beyond me.
I rather see a world thriving with natural abundance and diversity,
than see everything destroyed and dying for your addiction to fat.

'Numerous historical accounts do confirm drastic, detrimental
changes in plant and animal life, soil, water, and fire conditions
throughout most of the West. These reports progressively
establish livestock grazing as the biggest single perpetrator of
these changes, particularly considering that it was the only
significant land use over most of the West. One of the most
useful and informative descriptions of the early West was that
of Meriweather Lewis and William Clark on their famous
expedition across the northern Midwest, Rockies, and Pacific
Northwest from 1804 to 1806 (Thwaites 1959). Their
descriptions of the unconquered West are of a world we can
scarcely imagine: landscapes filled with wildlife; great diversities
of lush vegetation; highly productive, free-flowing rivers, creeks,
and springs; abundant, dark, fertile soil; unaltered, unimpeded
fire and other natural processes. Of the Montana plains, one
excerpt from Clark reads, "we observe in every direction
Buffalow, Elk Antelopes & Mule Deer inumerable and so jintle
that we could approach them near with great ease." Another
states, We saw a great number of buffaloe, Elk, common and
Black tailed deer, goats [pronghorn] beaver and wolves. ..

In the West today only ungrazed Yellowstone National Park
supports nearly this variety and density of large wild animals. ..

Lewis and Clark's and other historic journals attest that buffalo,
elk, deer, bighorns, pronghorn, mountain goats, moose, horses,
grizzly and black bears, wolves, foxes, cougars, bobcats, beaver,
muskrats, river otters, fish, porcupines, wild turkeys and other
"game" birds, waterfowl, snakes, prairie dogs and other rodents,
most insects, and the vast majority of wild animals were all many
times more abundant then than now. So too were native plants;
the journals describe a great abundance and diversity of grasses
and herbaceous vegetation, willows and deciduous trees, cattails,
rushes, sedges, wild grapes, chokecherries, currants, wild cherries
and plums, gooseberries, "red" and "yellow" berries, service berries,
flax, dock, wild garlic and onions, sunflowers, wild roses, tansy,
honeysuckle, mints, and more, a large number being edible. Most
of these plants have been depleted through the many effects of
livestock grazing for 100 years and are today comparatively scarce.
.......'
Livestock Grazing: Enviro. Effects
http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter3.html

Global Perspective
http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter6.html
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
Some are. Some are not.
(it seems even an "ara" should have been able to figure
that one out)
You give them too much credit. Again I think she was ready to point out that
Randy Raccoon could avoid Farmer Brown's tractor wheels and live to see
another sunset. She forgot some creatures nest in the field and are lost
because they can't get away. Oh well. But then, I guess she could make a
case for skipping the artificial food creation and go back to a simple
"gathering" society. I am sure the average person wants to come home at
night and go out in the woods to pick berries and dig roots for dinner. But
then, if they had their way we wouldn't go to work in the first place...
just like many folks featured in National Geographic.
From: Michael (michael-***@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Collateral Damage in Crop Fields?
Newsgroups: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Date: 2002-05-20 17:31:08 PST

I have been farming for almost thirty years. I am unaware of this term
collateral damage in the context of farming.

I have hayed countless acres of fields and can't remember seeing anything
killed except the grass. We see plenty of wildlife but all it has to do is
move over six feet (2M) at a slow walk to avoid the machine. Now one thing
they (who the hell is THEY?, sorry old John Wayne movie quote) do fall
victim to is by removing the cover these animals have had for a few months
the hawks have a field day.
(- one of the many good reasons for leaving crop residue on the land - p)

Corn and milo fields attract deer by the score but we consider that food
they take as the "angels share".

There are some farmers who have such large losses to deer that the state
authorities allow killing the deer out of season. I add this not for shock
value but in the sake of honesty. No one I know has requested this
dispensation.

During the raising or harvesting of what are the crops is damage to wildlife
occurring? Combines and threshers are not Porsches. I have one tractor
that is geared so low I can bungee cord the wheel straight, hop off, fix a
displaced plant, hop back on and never go above a walk. You tell what wild
animal is going to be surprised and caught by this thing. And it's loud as
the hammers of hell.

I don't know about this CD stuff. Sounds like BS to me.

[end]
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
It is not necessary for such birds to exist.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
It's necessary in order for those plants to exist.
It is necessary for human survival.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
It is not necessary to us for such animals to exist.
Post by oscar
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
Huh! For david,- it is his entire universe; it is his very
rationale for living.. so it seems. But that it is all a lie is
clear, seeing his utter lack of concern for threatened wild
species. It's an absurd attempt to justify eating meat, etc.
Post by oscar
or with what quality of life they are able to do so... it is about
control... people control. These issues are raised because they can be
whipped into emotional ammunition for their cannon to fire in order to win
their real battle.
Nice of you to tell us what you are doing.
Post by oscar
They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives.
'When we begin thinking about slavery, it becomes clear
to us that we live in a world of ideological fantasy, foisted
on us by persons who've seized public property and use
it for their own personal gain.
....'
http://www.new-enlightenment.com/new_slavery.htm .

Animals... humans... natural resources... but disagree
with all that injustice, and you want to 'control others'!

Maybe you selfish, self-centered, self-serving greedy
bastards should exercise some effing SELF-control!
Post by oscar
They are not
satisfied to be a vegan themselves and lead by example.
I personally, am here, on this forum to share information.

No one is forcing you or anyone else to read what I post.
Post by oscar
That takes too long
and is not ever going to be as effective as whipping up enough emotional
basket cases to pass some type of legislation making it illegal to do
anything without their permission. They want to control your food (or lack
thereof) your transportation, your education, your political tendencies...
etc. To roll it up into a few words... they want to control "society." The
reasons are too complex and numerous to go into here but this is where they
are headed in my opinion.
Seems like you are trying to take over my views, wishes and
thoughts, etc... talking about control. You want to continue
having absolute control over other sentient beings' lives, and
deaths, and control over nature and natural resources, right?

I believe in education, and the Golden Rule. Do unto others..
oscar
2006-02-21 17:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Two birds (not lawyers), with one stone, so to speak. Nice.
With all of your bull effluvia think of the load of taters we could grow.

The rest of your crap sniped and sent to the fertilizer factory where it
belongs.

Now you will excuse me because I have a date with a big, juicy hamburger
with all of the trimmings... and I don't need to be a lawyer to enjoy it...
or your posts.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Oscar
d***@.
2006-02-22 16:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
LOL! Okay, I'll answer her crap as best I can, and you can feel
free to help her with whatever I miss, even though there is no true
We are on the same page there...
'17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of
the other ploys
That's exactly what "aras" do, and it's exactly what you did. You
changed the subject when I asked you a question, you asked your
own which I answered, and you STILL are too lame and half ass
to answer mine. And you *always will!!!* be too lame and half ass to
answer it, as I predicted to begin with.

[...]
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
No.
I personally can't say for sure, but I would seriously doubt they need much
input from humans to perform, as they are wired by that pervert, mother
nature.
'It is only those who are truly abnormal in the manner in
which they attack male competitors
It's the ones who don't that are abnormal.

[...]
Post by pearl
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
They can stop fighting any time they want to.
Good point dh, if they were as smart as some here think... like the
dolphins, ravens, grizzly - everyone except humans - they would just shake
hands and go out for a beer or two and say "screw these humans."
'Pairs of birds, bred to be as aggressive as possible and
sometimes given steroids or other drugs (such as caffeine,
strychnine, epinephrine, amphetamines, and methamphetamines),
are placed together and forced to fight until a winner is declared.
Often, the loser is killed.
Fighting birds are isolated unless in the arena, preventing them
from learning and recognizing the natural signals that chickens
normally display in tense situations
They are isolated so they don't kill each other, you poor,
dishonest, inconsiderate ass.

[...]
Post by pearl
I don't know about this CD stuff. Sounds like BS to me.
You "aras" DO know about cds but you do NOT care.
You don't know about game chickens, and you don't care.
If every one of them had a wonderful life you would still be
against it because their lives bother YOU!!! You do not care,
and more significantly you CAN NOT care about their lives.
Post by pearl
[end]
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
It is not necessary for such birds to exist.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
It's necessary in order for those plants to exist.
It is necessary for human survival.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
It is not necessary to us for such animals to exist.
Post by oscar
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
Huh! For david,- it is his entire universe; it is his very
rationale for living.. so it seems.
I take it into consideration all the time.
Post by pearl
But that it is all a lie is
clear, seeing his utter lack of concern for threatened wild
species.
A person who wants to eliminate domestic animals like yourself, has no
business bitching about someone else who isn't worried about maintaining
the suffering endured by and caused by starving grizzly bears.
Post by pearl
It's an absurd attempt to justify eating meat, etc.
Here's another chance where you will prove again that you're as inept
as the Goober, unless you can finally:

Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
d***@.
2006-02-22 16:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by oscar
Hey dh... way to go! I've inserted a few thoughts below with your responses.
Of course I have treated this series of cross-examination questions with a
bit more frivolity that you... perhaps between the two of us something might
sink in... but I am not counting on it.
I don't believe there's anything for it to sink into man, but there's not much
to lose in trying I guess.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
Aw... come on dh... answer her questions...
If I answer her, then she'll never answer what I asked her half
ass first...but then she would never do that anyway, most likely.
Post by O***@Frotz.com
they are fun and super easy, and
it will give me something to read while I choke down my Asparagus Fingers
and Toad Stool Shake for dinner... not!
LOL! Okay, I'll answer her crap as best I can, and you can feel
free to help her with whatever I miss, even though there is no true
We are on the same page there...
Notice that she has proven my prediction correct that she won't answer
what I asked her first. Also she is making it more and more clear that there's
no help for her. She'll never be able to understand how life could have positive
value for any livestock, even: "when their life is a fairly happy one." - "ar" Salt
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
1. How common is it for wild roosters to fight to the death?
Quite common.
You would think almost everyone would have seen a wild animal program or two
on TV some time where a couple of (usually, but not always) male lizards or
some other creatures were fighting "to the death" but I guess not. This was
obviously a dumb question that you treated with more respect that I consider
it deserved.
Post by d***@.
2. Do roosters in the wild have the ability to flee?
Not the ones who are injured too badly, or blinded, which is
very common.
Again... begging the obvious.
She can't care. She isn't capable.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
3. Are 'fighting roosters' bred to enhance aggression?
They are bred to maintain it.
You mean, dh, that mother nature put this behavior into these poor creatures
in the wild... and... and... we are not going to fix what nature did wrong?
Well, when we obviously know better than nature what is right, it would be
immoral not to fix the screw-up! Are we not better than old mother nature?
Ohhh I almost forgot, we were another abysmal failure of the old girl.
Notice how similar this young game cock (stag) http://tinyurl.com/qgl7q
is to this Red Jungle Fowl http://tinyurl.com/psat4
and how most chickens have been bred *away* http://tinyurl.com/pnlm5
from the original idea that Game Fowl (fighting chickens) are still similar to.
Game Fowl are such beautiful and impressive creatures that it's a wonder even
"animal rights" freaks want to eliminate them http://tinyurl.com/pnlm5
http://tinyurl.com/p4gpq Only the adult males go off to fight for their lives,
as they unknowingly also support the lives of their hens and offspring:
http://tinyurl.com/mqu7b http://tinyurl.com/p8rnd http://tinyurl.com/qcaa6
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
4. Are 'fighting roosters' goaded into fighting?
No.
I personally can't say for sure, but I would seriously doubt they need much
input from humans to perform, as they are wired by that pervert, mother
nature.
There are accepted ways of doing things, and accepted rules set up to
protect the birds and their owners. They are "billed" by each handler holding
his bird up to within pecking range of the other, and peck they do immediately.
That is done to a specified extent and then they are "flirted", where they are
quickly raised close to each other, then they are held by the tail on a line about
6 feet away from each other, and the ref says, "Pit". There are more rules from
there, but that's how it gets started. If the birds weren't billed and flirted they
would still fight eventually, but they would sometimes spend a few minutes
dancing around and insulting each other before they actually began fighting.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
5. Are 'fighting roosters' able (allowed) to escape?
They can stop fighting any time they want to.
Good point dh, if they were as smart as some here think... like the
dolphins, ravens, grizzly - everyone except humans - they would just shake
hands and go out for a beer or two and say "screw these humans."
Contrary to what "aras" dishonestly tell people, the pits are plenty large
enough for the birds to avoid each other if they want to:
http://tinyurl.com/rsjj3 http://tinyurl.com/o9bos
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
6. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for livestock?
I don't know.
7. How many million hectares of land (US) are used for plant foods?
I don't know.
My opinion... she was going to make some asinine comment about how efficient
growing soybeans and alfalfa is compared to the inputs needed for a pound of
beef. It is true. But so what? Building mud huts is more efficient than
harvesting trees for a home, but I don't want to live in a mud hut... I like
a good steak better than I like collard greens... a lot better as a matter
of fact... so I pay the price for the beef and eat in in a kitchen made of
wood. Why this is any skin off her nose is beyond me.
Post by d***@.
8. Are wild animals typically inhabiting crop fields able to flee?
Some are. Some are not.
(it seems even an "ara" should have been able to figure
that one out)
You give them too much credit. Again I think she was ready to point out that
Randy Raccoon could avoid Farmer Brown's tractor wheels and live to see
another sunset. She forgot some creatures nest in the field and are lost
because they can't get away. Oh well.
"Oh well" accept for the influence these people have, like their ability
to persuade others to send them millions of dollars to fund their efforts to
eliminate domestic animals, and their claim to have an interest in animals
while we can plainly see that they aren't truly even capable. It's really
pretty bad man, and when you consider the influence they have on
medical research it becomes more apparent how much *more* suffering
people like these are stupidly/ignorantly/inconsiderately likely/sure to
cause in the future.
Post by oscar
But then, I guess she could make a
case for skipping the artificial food creation and go back to a simple
"gathering" society. I am sure the average person wants to come home at
night and go out in the woods to pick berries and dig roots for dinner. But
then, if they had their way we wouldn't go to work in the first place...
just like many folks featured in National Geographic.
They pretend to want such crap, while they obviously don't do it. They
couldn't even if they did want to. All they care about is eliminating domestic
animals, and eliminating hunting and fishing. That's what "ar" is about. AW
is a completely different idea.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
9. Is pitting roosters against each other necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
10. Is growing plant foods for human consumption necessary?
It's necessary in order for those plants to exist.
11. Is raising livestock necessary?
It's necessary in order for those animals to exist.
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
or with what quality of life they are able to do so...
It is about that. What we want to promote and why, is what we need to
think about if we're going to give it any thought at all.
Post by oscar
it is about
control... people control. These issues are raised because they can be
whipped into emotional ammunition for their cannon to fire in order to win
their real battle.
They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives. They are not
satisfied to be a vegan themselves and lead by example. That takes too long
and is not ever going to be as effective as whipping up enough emotional
basket cases to pass some type of legislation making it illegal to do
anything without their permission. They want to control your food (or lack
thereof) your transportation, your education, your political tendencies...
etc. To roll it up into a few words... they want to control "society." The
reasons are too complex and numerous to go into here but this is where they
are headed in my opinion.
Thanks for responding,
Oscar
You're welcome. Everyone wants to have their say, and I guess everyone
wants to have their influence. So we are all the same in that. The "aras"
want to force a change, and that change is to eliminate domestic animals,
supposedly so that wildlife can exist where domestic animals are now. So
they need to explain some details like:

Which particular wildlife should we promote?

Why should we promote them over domestic animals?

Why should people who raise livestock, eliminate their
livestock and make the property into wildlife sanctuaries?
oscar
2006-02-22 17:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
Hey dh... way to go! I've inserted a few thoughts below with your responses.
Of course I have treated this series of cross-examination questions with a
bit more frivolity that you... perhaps between the two of us something might
sink in... but I am not counting on it.
I don't believe there's anything for it to sink into man, but there's not much
to lose in trying I guess.
<snip>
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
or with what quality of life they are able to do so...
It is about that. What we want to promote and why, is what we need to
think about if we're going to give it any thought at all.
For AW people it would be, but I don't think it is for very many AR
people...
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
it is about
control... people control. These issues are raised because they can be
whipped into emotional ammunition for their cannon to fire in order to win
their real battle.
They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives. They are not
satisfied to be a vegan themselves and lead by example. That takes too long
and is not ever going to be as effective as whipping up enough emotional
basket cases to pass some type of legislation making it illegal to do
anything without their permission. They want to control your food (or lack
thereof) your transportation, your education, your political tendencies...
etc. To roll it up into a few words... they want to control "society." The
reasons are too complex and numerous to go into here but this is where they
are headed in my opinion.
Thanks for responding,
Oscar
You're welcome. Everyone wants to have their say, and I guess everyone
wants to have their influence. So we are all the same in that. The "aras"
want to force a change, and that change is to eliminate domestic animals,
supposedly so that wildlife can exist where domestic animals are now. So
Which particular wildlife should we promote?
Why should we promote them over domestic animals?
Why should people who raise livestock, eliminate their
livestock and make the property into wildlife sanctuaries?
These are the tough questions... and AR people haven't a clue!

I posted a piece called "There Ought To Be A Law" today. This whole
discussion (at least the part that involves me) grew out of some comments I
made when I first arrived about the fact I didn't think the Federal
Government should be spending general fund tax dollars to promote this
activity under our current Constitution. I really didn't elaborate on my
personal opinions about whether grizzly or raven or fighting cocks were good
or bad... though subsequently I am sure my opinion is obvious on all of
these.

The idea that the Fed's have to do it... and Federal Laws have to be passed
to have a positive effect is simply bogus in my opinion. The link in the
"There Ought To Be A Law" post shows that private citizens can have a
positive effect on endangered species... and states could do something
similar depending on their own State Constitution.

This country, and its heritage will be saved by people, not the government,
if it is to be saved... and if we are not forbidden to do so by the special
interest police.

Oh yes... I almost forgot... thanks for engaging in a civil discussion... it
is so rare on Usenet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'
Glorfindel
2006-02-23 01:43:16 UTC
Permalink
oscar wrote:

...
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
I know you understand that this whole thing isn't about what gets to exist,
or with what quality of life they are able to do so...
Of course it is.

....
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives.
Not every aspect, only those aspects which cause injury
and suffering to others. All societies do so, by many
different mechanisms. A society which did not would not
be worth living in -- even you would agree, I hope.
Post by oscar
They are not
Post by d***@.
Post by oscar
satisfied to be a vegan themselves and lead by example.
That is part of the way to change society.

.....
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
You're welcome. Everyone wants to have their say, and I guess everyone
wants to have their influence. So we are all the same in that. The "aras"
want to force a change, and that change is to eliminate domestic animals,
As an eventual goal, but it will only happen gradually.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
supposedly so that wildlife can exist where domestic animals are now. So
Which particular wildlife should we promote?
The wildlife which live within a particular ecology.
It's not about picking and choosing particular glamorous
endangered species, although if endangered species can
be saved and brought back to healthy levels, that is all
to the good. It is to promote healthy, reasonably
balanced, varied ecologies in different areas. All the
species, both animal and vegetable, and the land and
water needed to sustain them have to be considered.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
Why should we promote them over domestic animals?
From an AR perspective, because they are free animals
living their own lives, and are not enslaved to
human purposes.
Post by oscar
Post by d***@.
Why should people who raise livestock, eliminate their
livestock and make the property into wildlife sanctuaries?
Those are two different issues. Livestock should be
phased out because domestication is inherently unjust,
but farmers could do other things rather than turn farms into
wildlife sanctuaries. It would depend on individual
circumstances.
Post by oscar
These are the tough questions... and AR people haven't a clue!
Every AR writers discusses such questions, and all of them have
ideas about where society should go with the process.

.....
Post by oscar
The idea that the Fed's have to do it...
Not necessarily; change can, and should, come about at every level,
from the individual up to the national level, and much of it can
come without any law at all, through education. The success of
campaigns to spay and neuter companion animals is one example.
Virtually all of the success has come through education, private
humane efforts, and limited local incentives, such as lower
license fees for neutered animals. Much still needs to be done,
but process is being made. Where laws probably are needed is
in things like eliminating puppy mills and kitten mills.

...
Leif Erikson
2006-02-23 02:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glorfindel
Post by oscar
They want to control every aspect of other peoples lives.
Not every aspect,
False. "aras" are totalitarians.
d***@.
2006-02-20 18:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives and humane deaths.
How do you know how the animals you eat of lived and died?
Well?
I can get an idea how they were raised, though I don't know the
exact details of their individual lives. How do you know how the
animals live and die that you contribute to the deaths of so you can
eat their food, etc?
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
All that you advocate is killing wildlife
You are lying. I do no such thing.
Lying about people is -wrong-, david.
I seriously doubt anyone has been lied about in these ngs more
than I have. For example: you lied when you said I lied, unless you
can explain which *domestic* animals you advocate killing in addition
to the wildlife you advocate killing in crop production.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives, is worse than the animals who are killed so you can eat
their food.
Some more questions
Explain what I asked, if you think you can.
I already have, in a roundabout way. I think you know it,
No, I sure don't. Neither do you, as we can see.
Post by pearl
but to see that you understand my explanation, I need you
Actually I did answer the questions, but accidentally trashed
them. When I thought about doing it again and posting it I
considered that I asked you first--which I did--so I'll wait until you
answer my question first. If/when you can't/don't, I will remain
with no reason to bother with yours.
Leif Erikson
2006-02-16 06:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
What goes around, comes around, .. always, .. eventually..
Then will you eventually starve/freeze to death as a grizzly bear?
And/Or eventually fall prey to a grizzly bear?
Or will you have a bolt misfire against your head, be winched
up by one leg, have your throat slashed, and be butchered,- all
whilst still conscious?
Hopefully not, since I advocate decent lives
That's a lie. You don't care about quality of life for
farm animals, Fuckwit. Stop lying.
Post by d***@.
Post by pearl
Maybe someone will strap steel spurs to
your heels, and throw in you into a small enclosure with jonnie.
Explain why encouraging two mature roosters to willingly fight for
their lives,
The roosters don't go to the pit themselves, Fuckwit,
you ignorant hillbilly pig-fucker. Other toothless fat
pimply-assed smelly rednecks like you *take* them there
and *put* them into the pit.

You lying hillbilly hick cocksucking pig-fucker.
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 06:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Horse Slaughter to Continue Despite Action
Horse slaughter should continue. There's no reason to
discriminate against consumers of horsemeat.
r***@yahoo.com
2006-02-14 06:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leif Erikson
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Horse Slaughter to Continue Despite Action
Horse slaughter should continue.
Should dog slaughter continue too?
Post by Leif Erikson
There's no reason to
discriminate against consumers of horsemeat.
Leif Erikson
2006-02-14 06:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Post by Leif Erikson
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Horse Slaughter to Continue Despite Action
Horse slaughter should continue.
Should dog slaughter continue too?
Sure, why not?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Post by Leif Erikson
There's no reason to
discriminate against consumers of horsemeat.
Dave
2006-02-24 16:29:55 UTC
Permalink
What would be achieved by preventing people from eating wild horses
when they
can still eat indoor raised chicken or pork?

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