[dolphin] [Bug 312834] closing split view closes the currently focused view instead of the inactive

[Jekyll Wu]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Jekyll Wu <adaptee-***@public.gmane.org> changed:

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See Also| |https://bugs.kde.org/show_b
| |ug.cgi?id=188474

[Jekyll Wu]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Jekyll Wu <adaptee-***@public.gmane.org> changed:

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[Frank Reininghaus]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #15 from Frank Reininghaus <frank78ac-gM/Ye1E23mwN+***@public.gmane.org> ---
(In reply to comment #11)

Why not adding a new shortcut (e.g. Shift+F3) and menu item ("Close inactive
view") for closing the inactive view?

I already said something abou that in comment 7.

(In reply to comment #14)

2. or move focus to the destination, then destination will be the active
one. Currently dolphin doesn't move the focus on to the destination, which
might be the real problem for this.

Interesting idea. I never thought about this.

BTW, as for break workflow: http://xkcd.com/1172/ people will always break
others' workflow.

Thanks for sharing that :-)

[r***@public.gmane.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

razinov.a.u-***@public.gmane.org changed:

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CC| |razinov.a.u-***@public.gmane.org

--- Comment #16 from razinov.a.u-***@public.gmane.org ---
I've just understood completely the logic of closing/opening an additional
panel. Assume we have a shortcut F3 for this action.

Current logic:
1. User presses F3 - open panel.
2. New panel appears and become active.
3. User works with panels.
4. User presses F3 - close panel.
5. Current (active) panel is closed.

Good straightforward logic. But. It is not user friendly. When user has worked
with active panel for long and wants now to close other not necessary panel, he
presses F3. Voila. There is an unexpected behavior for user - he has just
closed an active panel.

I think it is a good idea to open new tab as inactive.
So sequence of user's actions will be like so:
1. User presses F3 - opens panel.
2. New panel appears and become inactive.
3. User works with panels.
4. User presses F3 - closes inactive panel.
5. Current (active) panel is closed.

This way is more user friendly and is still straightforward. There is no need
to modify user interface, only to change few lines of code.

[Weng Xuetian]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #17 from Weng Xuetian <wengxt-***@public.gmane.org> ---
Git commit 08eae43abd4eb87dc014b5f86fe34e762604cecc by Weng Xuetian.
Committed on 05/06/2013 at 23:07.
Pushed by xuetianweng into branch 'master'.

move focus to another view upon drop

When user drag and drop to another splitted view, the view will be activated,
thus if user close the split view, the view will be closed, while this is
usually the case when user copy file to remote/removable media.

REVIEW: 110167

M +2 -0 dolphin/src/views/dolphinview.cpp

http://commits.kde.org/kde-baseapps/08eae43abd4eb87dc014b5f86fe34e762604cecc

[Christoph Feck]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Christoph Feck <christoph-1Skg4+ogBTizQB+***@public.gmane.org> changed:

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CC| |vivymarcy-***@public.gmane.org

--- Comment #18 from Christoph Feck <christoph-1Skg4+ogBTizQB+***@public.gmane.org> ---
*** Bug 327002 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Anselmo L. S. Melo (anselmolsm)]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Anselmo L. S. Melo (anselmolsm) <anselmolsm-***@public.gmane.org> changed:

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[s***@hotmail.ru]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

***@hotmail.ru changed:

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--- Comment #19 from ***@hotmail.ru ---
What ***@gmail.com said, easy and clean. All file browsers i know that
have such option share the same behaviour except for Dolphin.
If there is a care for old users that got used to old behaviour ok, leave
default like this. But you could also make a simple option in the Dolphin
settings to change the behaviour.

Dolphin Preferences -> View Modes -> "Split" tab will have an option to change
behaviour.

Note: New users would really like this new Split mode by default more than the
old one. And old KDE users such as myself would also wellcome the change. But
even if its not going to default an option to change Split mode behaviour would
be more than enough. Thank you.

[Denis Prost]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Denis Prost <***@wanadoo.fr> changed:

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[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

***@gmail.com changed:

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CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #20 from ***@gmail.com ---
Even if you don't change the default behavior,
even if you don't enable changing the behavior in the settings,
even if you don't add another keyboard shortcut for the more intuitive behavior
(closing the pane _not_ being actively used),

please just add another button in the Configure Toolbars dialog (that a user
would have to seek out or stumble upon) that opens a second pane but _doesn't_
activate it, and closes the _inactive_ pane if two are already open.

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #21 from ***@gmail.com ---
OK, rereading this three year long discussion, I think I understand that the
reason my last comment's reiterations of previous suggestions have not been
acted on is:

"Currently, the action's name switches between 'Split' and 'Close'. What short,
meaningful name could a new action get to avoid confusion?"

So, let's brainstorm:

Split | Close Other
Split | Crop
Single | Dual
Split | Close [Left | Right]
Split | Maximize
Split | Fill
Split | Grow
Split | Widen
Split | Only
Split | Focus
Split | Focalize
Wane | Wax
Split | Expand
Split | Swell

I think "Split | Swell" is my favorite so far. The words are pleasantly
symmetrical. My next choices are probably Grow, Fill, Expand.

[Ettore Atalan via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #22 from Ettore Atalan <***@googlemail.com> ---
(In reply to andydecleyre from comment #20)

Post by via KDE Bugzilla
Even if you don't change the default behavior,
even if you don't enable changing the behavior in the settings,
even if you don't add another keyboard shortcut for the more intuitive
behavior (closing the pane _not_ being actively used),

You'd better use another file manager due to the lack of willingness to
consider user needs. It's more a KDE problem than a technical problem, anyway.

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #23 from ***@gmail.com ---
The version's a bit out of date these days. Can someone with permissions please
update it from 2.1.97 to 15.12.1?

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

***@aip.de changed:

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CC| |***@aip.de

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #24 from ***@gmail.com ---
Maybe a solution that would please users but also be palatable for devs:

Add a button to open/close the _right_ pane, and another optional button to
swap panes. That can be clear, succinct, and highly functional.

[Christoph Feck via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> changed:

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--- Comment #25 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
*** Bug 360159 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Christoph Feck via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> changed:

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CC| |***@yahoo.com

--- Comment #26 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
*** Bug 361095 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #27 from ***@gmail.com ---
Can someone with permissions please update the version from 2.1.97 to 16.04.2 ?
A lot of versions happen in three and a half years.

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

***@gmx.net changed:

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--- Comment #28 from ***@gmx.net ---
I do not understand, why a behaviour that annoys and frustrates many people is
apparently ignored or even defended for no good reason. I can't count the
occasions where I closed the wrong view and had to navigate again to the
previous location.

The "arguments" put forward to defend the completely counter-intuitive
behaviour of closing the active view are not convincing. I cannot help but
assume that the real reason is stubbornness on the side of the developers. This
change (either as an option, or an additional/alternative key-binding) is
simple and non-intrusive for those that are used to old behaviour or who
consider this for whatever reason as "logical".

I again plead for the changes proposed in this thread. The current behaviour is
a BUG not a feature and should be fixed.

[Denis Prost]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #29 from Denis Prost <***@wanadoo.fr> ---
I totally second this

[Ettore Atalan]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #30 from Ettore Atalan <***@googlemail.com> ---
(In reply to fgf from comment #28)

Post by b***@kde.org
I do not understand, why a behaviour that annoys and frustrates many people
is apparently ignored or even defended for no good reason.

It's KDE ...

[Christoph Feck]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #31 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
Created attachment 104707
--> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=104707&action=edit
Change the meaning of the Close button

Yes, it is KDE, a community of volunteers. Adding more comments to a feature
request won't magically change code, especially when there was no consensus.

Here is a patch. It changes the meaning of the "Close Split View" toolbar
button from "Close Active Split View" to "Close Inactive Split View". I did not
search for descriptive texts, so these might be wrong now.

[Chris Holland]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Chris Holland <***@gmail.com> changed:

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[Oleg Solovyov]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Oleg Solovyov <***@mail.ru> changed:

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--- Comment #32 from Oleg Solovyov <***@mail.ru> ---
Created attachment 106825
--> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=106825&action=edit
Improvement of attachment 104707

(In reply to Christoph Feck from comment #31)

Created attachment 104707 [details]
Change the meaning of the Close button

Your patch is causing crash after closing LEFT view and switching to another
tab (if exist).

[Elvis Angelaccio]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Elvis Angelaccio <***@kde.org> changed:

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--- Comment #34 from Elvis Angelaccio <***@kde.org> ---
(In reply to fgf from comment #28)

Post by b***@kde.org
I do not understand, why a behaviour that annoys and frustrates many people
is apparently ignored or even defended for no good reason.
The "arguments" put forward to defend the completely counter-intuitive
behaviour of closing the active view are not convincing.

How can you tell that there are more people annoyed than people who are
accustomed to the current behavior? I bet that if we change behavior, we are
going to get tons of bug reports (see the already cited xkcd/1172).

And why do you think that the arguments provided by Frank are not good or
convincing?

Post by b***@kde.org
I cannot help but
assume that the real reason is stubbornness on the side of the developers.
This change (either as an option, or an additional/alternative key-binding)
is simple and non-intrusive for those that are used to old behaviour or who
consider this for whatever reason as "logical".

I'm against adding an option. An additional action/shortcut is the only way to
fix this, imho. If anyone can provide a clean patch with unit tests, I'd be
happy to review it.

[Thomas]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #35 from Thomas <***@gmail.com> ---
I really think, there is not a single person out there that truly thinks
the current behavior is good. Let's look at the workflow:

My typical split view workflow is adding the split view, because you want
to copy or compare files and then continue to work in one of the folders.
At this point the other folder becomes useless to you and that is the
reason why you want to close it.

The current behavior forces you to switch from the folder that you want to
keep, because it has the content you want to work with, into the folder
that you want to close. Then you close it and look back at the interesting
folder.

The proposed behavior is that you subconsciously recognize that the other
view is obsolete and close it without losing focus. You seemlessly continue
to work.

What are your workflows for split view? Do you support my point of view?

Thomas

Post by Jekyll Wu
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834
What |Removed |Added
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(In reply to fgf from comment #28)

Post by b***@kde.org
I do not understand, why a behaviour that annoys and frustrates many

people

Post by b***@kde.org
is apparently ignored or even defended for no good reason.
The "arguments" put forward to defend the completely counter-intuitive
behaviour of closing the active view are not convincing.

How can you tell that there are more people annoyed than people who are
accustomed to the current behavior? I bet that if we change behavior, we
are
going to get tons of bug reports (see the already cited xkcd/1172).
And why do you think that the arguments provided by Frank are not good or
convincing?

Post by b***@kde.org
I cannot help but
assume that the real reason is stubbornness on the side of the

developers.

Post by b***@kde.org
This change (either as an option, or an additional/alternative

key-binding)

Post by b***@kde.org
is simple and non-intrusive for those that are used to old behaviour or

who

Post by b***@kde.org
consider this for whatever reason as "logical".

I'm against adding an option. An additional action/shortcut is the only
way to
fix this, imho. If anyone can provide a clean patch with unit tests, I'd be
happy to review it.
--
You voted for the bug.

[Oleg Solovyov]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #36 from Oleg Solovyov <***@altlinux.org> ---
Maybe add "Close left", "Close right" buttons instead of one "Close" button?

[Elvis Angelaccio]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #37 from Elvis Angelaccio <***@kde.org> ---
(In reply to Oleg Solovyov from comment #36)

Post by Oleg Solovyov
Maybe add "Close left", "Close right" buttons instead of one "Close" button?

No, that would change the meaning of the current "Close" action, which is what
we want to avoid. I'd use "Expand" or a similar name, since that's what would
happen (the inactive view gets closed ==> the active one gets expanded).

[Thomas]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #38 from Thomas <***@gmail.com> ---
Fair enough, I don't care about the name. The current behavior of split
view close is annoying me because it is constantly interrupting my
workflow.

Post by Jekyll Wu
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834
(In reply to Oleg Solovyov from comment #36)

Post by Oleg Solovyov
Maybe add "Close left", "Close right" buttons instead of one "Close"

button?
No, that would change the meaning of the current "Close" action, which is
what
we want to avoid. I'd use "Expand" or a similar name, since that's what
would
happen (the inactive view gets closed ==> the active one gets expanded).
--
You voted for the bug.

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #39 from ***@gmail.com ---
So can we muster consensus on a new "Split/Expand" button and action?

[Christoph Feck]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> changed:

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--- Comment #40 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
*** Bug 396460 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Nate Graham <***@kde.org> changed:

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--- Comment #41 from Nate Graham <***@kde.org> ---
Confusion over which pane will be closed definitely keeps me from using the
Split feature more often.

After five years, we have not managed to achieve consensus on what the toolbar
button should do, whether or not it should be configurable, or whether we
should add a second (hidden by default) button that has the other behavior.

Looking through the duplicates, some people want the active pane closed, while
other want the inactive pane closed. In such a circumstance, IMHO adding a user
preference is the way to go, but if that's not an option, let's consider
alternative ideas. Here are some:

- Add individual close buttons to each split view pane somewhere, so you can
click on that pane's own close button to make sure you're closing the one you
intend
- Make the "Close" button's text indicate which view it will close (e.g. "close
left pane"/ "Close right pane")
- Have the "Close" button close the opposite pane when middle-clicked on (and
adjust the tooltip to indicate this)
- Adjust the toolbar button's icon to make the pane that will be closed more
obvious (I only just now noticed that it changes depending on which pane is
focused)

Thoughts?

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Nate Graham <***@kde.org> changed:

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Keywords| |usability

[br_shadow]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

br_shadow <***@gmail.com> changed:

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Keywords|usability |

--- Comment #42 from br_shadow <***@gmail.com> ---
It's counter-intuitive to close the active view when you press F3 again, it
should close the non-active view by default and put a option somewhere if you
want to reverse this (which in my opinion is not even necessary).

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Nate Graham <***@kde.org> changed:

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Keywords| |usability

[Mircea Kitsune]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #43 from Mircea Kitsune <***@yahoo.com> ---
The "close split view" button seems to at least be consistent now: It will
always close the active view rather than having an unpredictable result. The
only question remains whether it makes more sense for it to close the inactive
view and keep the active one instead.

[Dr. Chapatin]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Dr. Chapatin <***@gmx.com> changed:

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[Christoph Feck]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #44 from Christoph Feck <***@kde.org> ---
Another idea: Split button has a drop-down indicator. Clicking it splits/closes
the view. Holding it shows (after a short delay) a menu where you can select
the view to close. This selection is remembered in settings.

[Ettore Atalan]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #45 from Ettore Atalan <***@googlemail.com> ---
My advice to you: Don't waste your time with KDE hardliners. Use another
desktop environment instead of KDE.

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #46 from Nate Graham <***@kde.org> ---
Ettore, this is a bug tracker, not a complaint box. I understand you're
frustrated, but dumping negativity won't get this issue fixed any faster. In
fact, it's likely to have the opposite effect since volunteer developers are
easily demoralized by criticism. If you want to have a positive impact, you
could contribute to our brainstorming regarding possible options.

[Ettore Atalan]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #47 from Ettore Atalan <***@googlemail.com> ---
This issue was reported in 2013. You don't have to be a pessimist to realize
that nothing will happen here.

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #48 from Nate Graham <***@kde.org> ---
I have personally (and recently) fixed issues that were 14 years old.
Anything's possible. But, it becomes less possible when someone's seemingly
trying to sabotage the process by posting discouraging comments. If you want
this fixed, negativity makes it *less* likely, not more. See
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting#Bug_tracker_etiquette

You catch more flies with honey then vinegar, that's all I'm trying to say. :)

[phanisvara das]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

phanisvara das <***@gmail.com> changed:

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[Chris Holland]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Post by Elvis Angelaccio
I'm against adding an option. An additional action/shortcut is the only
way to fix this, imho. If anyone can provide a clean patch with unit tests,
I'd be happy to review it.

So I guess that means we need a new "Action" like the Shift+F3 "Close Other".

Shift+F3 could also be a "toggle" action like F3. So users could simply swap
the shortcuts and ignore the other shortcut. The toolbar button could be hidden
by default. The Menu Item would be a duplicate however (when not in split
view). Not sure if we can "hide" the second menu item without disabling the
shortcut.

I've been using the patch posted above for a while now.
https://github.com/Zren/dolphin/commit/2b546cce997daf0c2dd9ac597123138685cec921

[b***@kde.org]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #50 from ***@gmail.com ---
I think I'd be happy if any one of the suggestions were implemented, but my
preference at this point is to have the close pane button always close the
right side, with an additional action to swap the panes. That should keep
everything simple, well defined, and predictable.

I don't know if this reversed for RTL users.

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

--- Comment #51 from Nate Graham <***@kde.org> ---
(In reply to Chris Holland from comment #49)

Post by Chris Holland

Post by Elvis Angelaccio
I'm against adding an option. An additional action/shortcut is the only
way to fix this, imho. If anyone can provide a clean patch with unit tests,
I'd be happy to review it.

So I guess that means we need a new "Action" like the Shift+F3 "Close Other".
Shift+F3 could also be a "toggle" action like F3. So users could simply swap
the shortcuts and ignore the other shortcut. The toolbar button could be
hidden by default. The Menu Item would be a duplicate however (when not in
split view). Not sure if we can "hide" the second menu item without
disabling the shortcut.
I've been using the patch posted above for a while now.
https://github.com/Zren/dolphin/commit/
2b546cce997daf0c2dd9ac597123138685cec921

Would you like to submit this as a patch?

[Denis Prost]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Denis Prost <***@wanadoo.fr> changed:

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[Gastón Haro]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312834

Gastón Haro <***@gmail.com> changed:

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--- Comment #52 from Gastón Haro <***@gmail.com> ---
Just because the action is called "Close" and "buttons always act on the active
view" we choose to keep an awkward behavior like this only for the sake of
consistency.

Well, sometimes exceptions are very welcomed. So here is my proposal, we could
try being consistent with user friendliness instead. That could probably work
out pretty well.