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Ok Roy,
Even the most extended samplesets, like the Zwolle ( yes, Netherlands
again...), can be installed wet, surround ( where the surround part has
separate samples), and DRY.
In my opinion, the overall effect of the original acoustics belong to the
special flavour of the specific instrument, but sometimes placing an organ
in a different environment can greatly enhance its usefulness when playing
specific organ compositions.
Besides, for studying, it is not always helpful, that a long reverb hides
your faults a little.
Last year I was lucky to be able to have a converstaion with Olivier Latry,
the organist of the ND Paris.
He was giving a concert on the new CC-like organ of Orgelpark ( Amsterdam)
which is placed in a former protestant church in the form of a Greek cross
with a very short reverb and direct overall acoustics.
He told me, that it was no drawback at all when playing the Romantic organ
pieces. He liked the much more subtle tonal colouring that can be heard when
the acoustics are not so much dominating.
A say this also, because I remember a few weeks ago someone on this forum
said that an organ without a good reverb cannot be interesting to listen to.
In my opinion that is not right; it is different and has its own charm......
Like Handel organ concerto's; can be played in very small acoustics.
On the technical side: yes, I agree with you that it is quite convenient to
have the reverb processed elsewhere; besides, you can do with a lot less
powerful processor on the playing side, as, when you play many notes in
rapid succession, all those reverb tails still have to be handled.
Greetings,
Geert
Post by Roy RadfordHi, Geert,
I'm not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your
words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb
on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions
or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!
Have fun,
Roy.
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for
3.13beta6 with Asio
Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32
Chester,
As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only
disposition I have with such long reverb.
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels (
Belgium).
The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling
techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the
original sampleset.
But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this
same piece played on Bernd's CC.
But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in
post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.
Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the
best solution for long church-reverbs.
The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a
distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.
I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I
did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their
fingerprints not too different....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3 (Bernd's CC)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3 (Schyven)
Greetings,
Geert
*Sent:* Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM
*Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell
for 3.13beta6 with Asio
Chester,
I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!
For me this is very valuable.
I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I
am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.
Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,
Geert ( Netherlands)
------------------------------
Geert,
Thanks so much for your most generous reply.
I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have
worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.
And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale! Which
disposition was this done on?
Very best wishes to all!
/s/Chester H Berry
Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
(and now back home from a family event in Arizona! Thus the delay in this
response)
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Ok Roy,<br><br>Even the most extended samplesets, like the Zwolle ( yes, Netherlands again...), can be installed wet, surround ( where the surround part has separate samples), and DRY.<br><br>In my opinion, the overall effect of the original acoustics belong to the special flavour of the specific instrument, but sometimes placing an organ in a different environment can greatly enhance its usefulness when playing specific organ compositions.<br>
Besides, for studying, it is not always helpful, that a long reverb hides your faults a little.<br><br>Last year I was lucky to be able to have a converstaion with Olivier Latry, the organist of the ND Paris.<br>He was giving a concert on the new CC-like organ of Orgelpark ( Amsterdam) which is placed in a former protestant church in the form of a Greek cross with a very short reverb and direct overall acoustics.<br>
He told me, that it was no drawback at all when playing the Romantic organ pieces. He liked the much more subtle tonal colouring that can be heard when the acoustics are not so much dominating.<br><br>A say this also, because I remember a few weeks ago someone on this forum said that an organ without a good reverb cannot be interesting to listen to. In my opinion that is not right; it is different and has its own charm......<br>
Like Handel organ concerto's; can be played in very small acoustics.<br><br>On the technical side: yes, I agree with you that it is quite convenient to have the reverb processed elsewhere; besides, you can do with a lot less powerful processor on the playing side, as, when you play many notes in rapid succession, all those reverb tails still have to be handled.<br> <br>Greetings,<br><br>Geert<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/27 Roy Radford <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:***@yahoo.co.uk">***@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Hi, Geert,<br>???? <br>??????????????? I'm not into the subtleties of this sort of music but your words seem to add weight to my, possibly naiive, practice of keeping reverb on a separate machine, entirely independent of dispositions, jOrgan versions or the current direction of the Gulf Stream!<br> <br>���� Have fun,<br><br>������� Roy.<div class="im"><br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 26/4/11, orgel jeux <i><<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div class="im"><br>From: orgel jeux <<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div class="im">Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br>
</div><div class="im">To:
<a href="mailto:jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br></div>Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 20:32<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div>Chester,<br><br>As in my opinion this piece needs a cathedral reverb, I had to use the only disposition I have with such long reverb.<br>
It is the Schyven/van Bever organ at the N D de Laeken in Brussels ( Belgium).<br>The sampleset was made a few years ago in the beginning of organ-sampling techniques. But still rather impressive. I used a small subset of the original sampleset.<br>
<br>But in the mean time I succeeded in adding impulse response reverb to this same piece played on Bernd's CC.<br><br>But so long as I have too much latency I can only add reverb in post-processing after having recorded it without reverb.<br>
<br>Although I have the Lexicon MX200, in my opinion this is not always the best solution for long church-reverbs.<br><br>The impulse response used was from the St Etienne at Caen (Fr), at a distance of 28 meters from the organ loft.<br>
<br>I put here the links for both examples to help in a direct comparison. I did not listen to the Schyven when I recorded the CC, but I find their fingerprints not too different....<br><br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/Boelmannch_CC_Caen_28m.mp3</a> (Bernd's CC)<br>
<br><a rel="nofollow" href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26531385/SuiteGothiqueChoral.mp3</a> (Schyven)<br><br>Greetings,<br><br>Geert<br><br><br><div>
2011/4/23 Chester Berry <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.com" target="_blank">***@yahoo.com</a>></span><br> <blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> orgel jeux <<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">jorgan-***@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
</div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, April 18, 2011 4:01:50 AM<div>
<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan file structure, was [ANN]new Russell for 3.13beta6 with Asio<br></div></font><div><br>
Chester,<br><br>I am delighted with your extensive reply...!!<br><br>For me this is very valuable.<br><br>I think it is also for the real contributors to jOrgan development, which I am surely not, despite of my frequent posting.<br> <br>Wish you many happy hours playing the organ,<br><br>Geert ( Netherlands)<br><br></div><div><div>2011/4/17 Chester Berry <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=***@yahoo.com" target="_blank">***@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>
</div><blockquote style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"></font><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"></div></div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Geert,</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">
<br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Thanks so much for your most generous reply.</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">I'm absolutely delighted if it provided encouragement to those who have worked so hard to bring jOrgan to its current state.</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">
<br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">And what a stunning rendition of Boellmann's Suite Gothique Chorale! Which
disposition was this done on?<div><br><br>Very best wishes to all!</div></span><div><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">/s/Chester H Berry</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">
<span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA</span><br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);"></div><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 191);">(and now back home from a family event in Arizona! Thus the delay in this response)</span></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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