Discussion:
When the software meets the hardware
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2019-01-21 10:02:35 UTC
Permalink
From Roger Ford's 'Informed Sources' e-preview:

Quote:

Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.

For example, during a recent run in a Great Western Railway Class 800 the
Universal Access Toilet was all lit up, but the door had lost power and
wouldn’t lock. When I reported this failure to a member of the on-board
staff, she replied that it was a common issue and the toilet needed
re-booting.

Lest you think that this is just a case of hide-bound traction and rolling
stock engineers unable to cope with new fangled technology, in the column I
quote the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter comparison.

Its software has been released in ‘blocks’. The latest block, which will
meet the full military specification, took over 30 iterations of the
software to implement. According to Arriva Rail London, the software for
the Bombardier Class 710 Aventra, which has yet to enter service, has
reached Version 27.


http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2019.01.21.04.02.archive.txt
Clive Page
2019-01-21 10:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.
I travel quite often on the new-fangled Siemens class 700 trains on Thameslink, which are fitted with passenger information screens at intervals in each carriage. Almost every day I travel I'm on a train where some or all of these screens fail, most often going completely blank part-way through the journey. Sometimes the screens spring back to life at City Thameslink or Farringdon when the power source is changed and I guess some parts of the system are rebooted, but not always. I wonder if the train companies are even aware of these problems - there's no obvious way of reporting them.

I was surprised that in most cases when the screens ail the audio announcements of stations continues as normal. I had assumed that the simplest way of providing audio and visual information was to generate them from the same system, but obviously they have at least partially duplicated things.

Modern buses are similarly afflicted: the Arriva 321 bus service (Luton <-> Watford) until recently had on-board screens giving information on the next stop, as well as audible announcements. That was at times very useful, especially for those travelling at night on unfamiliar routes. These were obviously not generated by a single system as on many bus journeys I found that the audio and video displays were exactly one bus stop out - which was very confusing. I see that ArrivaBus have now solved the problem by switching both systems off, so while the screens are still there, there is no no passenger information at all (unless you speak to the driver).
Post by Recliner
For example, during a recent run in a Great Western Railway Class 800 the
Universal Access Toilet was all lit up, but the door had lost power and
wouldn’t lock. When I reported this failure to a member of the on-board
staff, she replied that it was a common issue and the toilet needed
re-booting.
Lest you think that this is just a case of hide-bound traction and rolling
stock engineers unable to cope with new fangled technology, in the column I
quote the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter comparison.
Its software has been released in ‘blocks’. The latest block, which will
meet the full military specification, took over 30 iterations of the
software to implement. According to Arriva Rail London, the software for
the Bombardier Class 710 Aventra, which has yet to enter service, has
reached Version 27.
http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2019.01.21.04.02.archive.txt
--
Clive Page
Recliner
2019-01-21 11:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Page
Post by Recliner
Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.
I travel quite often on the new-fangled Siemens class 700 trains on
Thameslink, which are fitted with passenger information screens at
intervals in each carriage. Almost every day I travel I'm on a train
where some or all of these screens fail, most often going completely
blank part-way through the journey. Sometimes the screens spring back to
life at City Thameslink or Farringdon when the power source is changed
and I guess some parts of the system are rebooted, but not always. I
wonder if the train companies are even aware of these problems - there's
no obvious way of reporting them.
I was surprised that in most cases when the screens ail the audio
announcements of stations continues as normal. I had assumed that the
simplest way of providing audio and visual information was to generate
them from the same system, but obviously they have at least partially duplicated things.
Yes, that is surprising. Presumably the same data feeder system is used,
but the computerised visual and audio subsystems are different, maybe even
from different sub-contractors.
Post by Clive Page
Modern buses are similarly afflicted: the Arriva 321 bus service (Luton
<-> Watford) until recently had on-board screens giving information on
the next stop, as well as audible announcements. That was at times very
useful, especially for those travelling at night on unfamiliar routes.
These were obviously not generated by a single system as on many bus
journeys I found that the audio and video displays were exactly one bus
stop out - which was very confusing. I see that ArrivaBus have now
solved the problem by switching both systems off, so while the screens
are still there, there is no no passenger information at all (unless you
speak to the driver).
Post by Recliner
For example, during a recent run in a Great Western Railway Class 800 the
Universal Access Toilet was all lit up, but the door had lost power and
wouldn’t lock. When I reported this failure to a member of the on-board
staff, she replied that it was a common issue and the toilet needed
re-booting.
Lest you think that this is just a case of hide-bound traction and rolling
stock engineers unable to cope with new fangled technology, in the column I
quote the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter comparison.
Its software has been released in ‘blocks’. The latest block, which will
meet the full military specification, took over 30 iterations of the
software to implement. According to Arriva Rail London, the software for
the Bombardier Class 710 Aventra, which has yet to enter service, has
reached Version 27.
http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2019.01.21.04.02.archive.txt
Nick Leverton
2019-01-21 11:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Clive Page
Post by Recliner
Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.
I travel quite often on the new-fangled Siemens class 700 trains on
Thameslink, which are fitted with passenger information screens at
intervals in each carriage. Almost every day I travel I'm on a train
where some or all of these screens fail, most often going completely
blank part-way through the journey. Sometimes the screens spring back to
life at City Thameslink or Farringdon when the power source is changed
and I guess some parts of the system are rebooted, but not always. I
wonder if the train companies are even aware of these problems - there's
no obvious way of reporting them.
I was surprised that in most cases when the screens ail the audio
announcements of stations continues as normal. I had assumed that the
simplest way of providing audio and visual information was to generate
them from the same system, but obviously they have at least partially duplicated things.
Yes, that is surprising. Presumably the same data feeder system is used,
but the computerised visual and audio subsystems are different, maybe even
from different sub-contractors.
If it's like the train PIS systems I have worked on then they are
almost certainly part of the same system, but the audio playout will
be sent from the PIS controller audio output direct into the train PA,
whereas the displays will be distributed through a separate output via
one or more intermediate controllers which feed the screens. It will
be something in the latter chain that is failing.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Theo
2019-01-21 11:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Yes, that is surprising. Presumably the same data feeder system is used,
but the computerised visual and audio subsystems are different, maybe even
from different sub-contractors.
I assume it's like a modern car, which is a distributed system containing
dozens of ECUs (ie computers) flying in loose formation, joined by a
network. In the case of an 8 or 12 coach train there are probably hundreds
of nodes.

Building distributed systems is hard, especially when heterogenous, and when
involving physical inputs which are difficult to simulate in a test
environment (eg the kinematics of the train, doors, toilets, etc).

Theo
b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
2019-01-21 12:23:54 UTC
Permalink
On 21 Jan 2019 11:38:48 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Theo
Post by Recliner
Yes, that is surprising. Presumably the same data feeder system is used,
but the computerised visual and audio subsystems are different, maybe even
from different sub-contractors.
I assume it's like a modern car, which is a distributed system containing
dozens of ECUs (ie computers) flying in loose formation, joined by a
network. In the case of an 8 or 12 coach train there are probably hundreds
of nodes.
Building distributed systems is hard, especially when heterogenous, and when
Not really. So long as there is a published API/interface to each subsystem
then the seperate nodes should just be black boxes with internals that the
system intergration team shouldn't have to worry about. The problems arise
when the published interfaces and/or behaviours don't match the actual ones.
Post by Theo
involving physical inputs which are difficult to simulate in a test
environment (eg the kinematics of the train, doors, toilets, etc).
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
Basil Jet
2019-01-22 07:06:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce

b***@7wmozttvpodiw_9i.gov.uk
2019-01-22 11:13:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 07:06:09 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
So many obvious toilet joke responses, so hard to resist :)
Marland
2019-01-23 01:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
I expect there is someone closeted away somewhere.

GH
Christopher A. Lee
2019-01-23 01:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
I expect there is someone closeted away somewhere.
If they're not bogged down.
Chris J Dixon
2019-01-23 08:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Marland
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
I expect there is someone closeted away somewhere.
If they're not bogged down.
Just going through the motions.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Ian Clifton
2019-01-23 10:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Marland
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
But who would want the job of examining the logs?
I expect there is someone closeted away somewhere.
If they're not bogged down.
Just going through the motions.
A bad workman blames his stools.
--
Ian ◎
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-23 19:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Basil Jet
2019-01-23 19:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.
Isn't the point of it that the PIS systems all the way down the train
report which toilets are vacant?
--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
http://youtu.be/RtJEAud9vao
Graeme Wall
2019-01-23 19:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.
Isn't the point of it that the PIS systems all the way down the train
report which toilets are vacant?
In that context it is rather an unfortunate acronym.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-24 07:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.
Isn't the point of it that the PIS systems all the way down the train
report which toilets are vacant?
IETs don’t have that feature. In any case, that could still work if the
toilet (not the PIS) was controlled by a box of relays.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
2019-01-24 16:52:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:31:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.
Why is fault reporting required? People generally won't use a broken toilet and
the sorts who will will just piss up the wall if its closed anyway plus the
cleaners can simply check them in the evening and report if they're not working.

Not everything needs to be computerised or have some sort of monitoring system
built in.
Someone Somewhere
2019-01-24 17:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:31:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
I suspect it's not just the bog itself (which is easy as you say), but:

1. The lights and any interlocking between them and the door / lock
2. The occupied light outside
3. The occupied light somewhere else in the carriage
4. Any sensors in the toilet - smoke, fire, excessive moisture etc
5. Emergency alarm pull
6. Overstay alert
And so on and so on. Yes - you could build it all out of wires and
relays, but it sort of makes sense to have it all controlled and linked
together by a computer that could then log and report issues centrally
David Cantrell
2019-01-25 10:21:28 UTC
Permalink
[on why train bogs should be techno-bogs]
1. The lights and any interlocking between them and the door / lock
Solved by having modern low-energy LEDs, always on
2. The occupied light outside
A mechanical switch in the mechanical lock.
3. The occupied light somewhere else in the carriage
Wired in parallel with the prior light and both controlled by the same
switch.
4. Any sensors in the toilet - smoke, fire, excessive moisture etc
I really really hope that the fire alarm is *not* controlled by a
computer.
5. Emergency alarm pull
I really really hope that that isn't controlled by a computer either.
Or if it is then there shouldn't be anything in the bog itself except
a switch or two.
6. Overstay alert
What are the benefits of this? I can certainly see that there are some,
but do they outweigh the costs of false alarms and of taking the bog out
of service when the techno- part of the techno-bog metaphorically shits
its silicon pants?
--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Godliness is next to Englishness
Chris J Dixon
2019-01-24 18:13:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
I wish you luck in trying to find a route to the retention tank
for a domestic size waste pipe, and in dealing with the volume of
water required.

Vacuum toilets are not cheap, or simple, but they make retention
toilets possible.

I was involved in planning work on a trial system to be fitted in
place of an inboard retention tank (which was abandoned once the
real cost/benefit figures began to emerge). This was very similar
to the kit used on submarines, and was essentially a
bio-digester, which produced clean water of a quality suitable
for flushing, thereby much extending the service intervals.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Arthur Figgis
2019-01-25 18:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
I was involved in planning work on a trial system to be fitted in
place of an inboard retention tank (which was abandoned once the
real cost/benefit figures began to emerge). This was very similar
to the kit used on submarines, and was essentially a
bio-digester, which produced clean water of a quality suitable
for flushing, thereby much extending the service intervals.
I think India and Russia use something like that on some /very/ long
distance trains.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-24 20:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:31:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking; HSTs are tanked at every terminus and still run dry. 323s last a
day, usually, except when there was a leaky valve. 323 tanks overflow onto
the track when full, though, which is no longer allowed - so the toilet
needs to be able to lock itself out of use when the tank is full.

If it’s the Universal Access Toilet, it can lock the door out of use when
the toilet is out of use, too.
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
necessarily be more reliable and there’d still have to be a computer
interface for fault reporting.
Why is fault reporting required?
So that Hitachi can be notified that there’s a problem and send a fitter
out; or at the very least see a pattern of recurring faults and investigate
the underlying fault, rather than just press the reset button every night.
(Whether these things actually happen is another matter!)
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
People generally won't use a broken toilet
On 800s the smaller toilets with the manual doors which therefore can’t
lock themselves out of use, generally get filled to the brim with piss
before people stop using them.

HSTs and 323s, however, I’ve seen clogged and blocked to the brim with
excrement and paper, which (a) stinks (b) is difficult to clean (for HSTs
it requires an extra shunt to the siding with the flushing apron and
application of hosepipe to either end of the pipe until it’s cleared; that
could be the difference between several sets leaving depot on time in the
morning or not).
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
and
the sorts who will will just piss up the wall if its closed anyway
Good job the toilet can lock itself OOU then.
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
plus the
cleaners can simply check them in the evening and report if they're not working.
Yes, and the same fault reoccurs the next morning.
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Not everything needs to be computerised or have some sort of monitoring system
built in.
No, but if it can predict faults before they occur (eg, that door/set of
points is taking longer and longer to move, send someone to check it out)
then that’s an advantage, surely?


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
2019-01-25 21:34:45 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:31:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Why is fault reporting required?
So that Hitachi can be notified that there’s a problem and send a fitter
out; or at the very least see a pattern of recurring faults and investigate
the underlying fault, rather than just press the reset button every night.
(Whether these things actually happen is another matter!)
So the toilets are complex so that when a fault occurs due to their complexity
a technician can be notified? Calling Mr Heller....
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
On 800s the smaller toilets with the manual doors which therefore can’t
lock themselves out of use, generally get filled to the brim with piss
before people stop using them.
HSTs and 323s, however, I’ve seen clogged and blocked to the brim with
excrement and paper, which (a) stinks (b) is difficult to clean (for HSTs
it requires an extra shunt to the siding with the flushing apron and
application of hosepipe to either end of the pipe until it’s cleared; that
could be the difference between several sets leaving depot on time in the
morning or not).
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Not everything needs to be computerised or have some sort of monitoring
system
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
built in.
No, but if it can predict faults before they occur (eg, that door/set of
points is taking longer and longer to move, send someone to check it out)
then that’s an advantage, surely?
Only if that outweighs the disadvantages of the toilet not working half the
time because of its complexity.
Chris J Dixon
2019-01-26 09:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
Perhaps your view will change as you age. ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-26 09:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 19:31:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@l2q_geq6xy.edu
Toilets don't need to be software controlled in the first place. Only teams
trying to justify their jobs would make them so.
It could be controlled by a box of relays, I suppose, but it wouldn’t
Why does it need even that? A purely mechanical flush would work fine. Its
not as if the train is doing barrel rolls.
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@wueeeladr0s7o7274h.edu
Why is fault reporting required?
So that Hitachi can be notified that there’s a problem and send a fitter
out; or at the very least see a pattern of recurring faults and investigate
the underlying fault, rather than just press the reset button every night.
(Whether these things actually happen is another matter!)
So the toilets are complex so that when a fault occurs due to their complexity
a technician can be notified? Calling Mr Heller....
Conventional toilets get blocked too. Conventional toilet door locks fail
too. Conventional toilets run out of water too...
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
On 800s the smaller toilets with the manual doors which therefore can’t
lock themselves out of use, generally get filled to the brim with piss
before people stop using them.
HSTs and 323s, however, I’ve seen clogged and blocked to the brim with
excrement and paper, which (a) stinks (b) is difficult to clean (for HSTs
it requires an extra shunt to the siding with the flushing apron and
application of hosepipe to either end of the pipe until it’s cleared; that
could be the difference between several sets leaving depot on time in the
morning or not).
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
2019-01-26 19:27:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
I meant in the sense of them no necessarily being emptied every night.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
So the toilets are complex so that when a fault occurs due to their
complexity
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
a technician can be notified? Calling Mr Heller....
Conventional toilets get blocked too. Conventional toilet door locks fail
too. Conventional toilets run out of water too...
I can't remember the last time the toilets in my office failed never mind
my house. As for the locks failing, who the hell cares? Keep it shut with your
foot.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-26 22:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
I meant in the sense of them no necessarily being emptied every night.
How else would you deal with the sets which outstable at Hereford,
Worcester and Exeter?
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
So the toilets are complex so that when a fault occurs due to their
complexity
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
a technician can be notified? Calling Mr Heller....
Conventional toilets get blocked too. Conventional toilet door locks fail
too. Conventional toilets run out of water too...
I can't remember the last time the toilets in my office failed never mind
my house. As for the locks failing, who the hell cares? Keep it shut with your
foot.
How does that work with a sliding door, a wheelchair user, or even a
non-wheelchair user in the accessible toilets where the door is too far
away? Or the occasional station toilet cubicle where the door opens
outwards...

The toilets in your house presumably aren’t used as intensively as train
ones? Over the years I’ve known domestic toilets get blocked, flush broken,
flushes which only work with a certain technique, multiple flushes needed
to actually clear the bowl... Mess room toilets which perhaps approach
train toilet frequency of use, get blocked often enough that people add the
word 'again' when they talk about it...
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Round here the commuter trains are often in the middle of long journeys,
between 4 and 10 hours end-to-end. Just because I’m only on board for 15
minutes doesn’t mean everyone else is.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
martin.coffee
2019-01-27 02:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
I meant in the sense of them no necessarily being emptied every night.
How else would you deal with the sets which outstable at Hereford,
Worcester and Exeter?
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
So the toilets are complex so that when a fault occurs due to their
complexity
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
a technician can be notified? Calling Mr Heller....
Conventional toilets get blocked too. Conventional toilet door locks fail
too. Conventional toilets run out of water too...
I can't remember the last time the toilets in my office failed never mind
my house. As for the locks failing, who the hell cares? Keep it shut with your
foot.
How does that work with a sliding door, a wheelchair user, or even a
non-wheelchair user in the accessible toilets where the door is too far
away? Or the occasional station toilet cubicle where the door opens
outwards...
The toilets in your house presumably aren’t used as intensively as train
ones? Over the years I’ve known domestic toilets get blocked, flush broken,
flushes which only work with a certain technique, multiple flushes needed
to actually clear the bowl... Mess room toilets which perhaps approach
train toilet frequency of use, get blocked often enough that people add the
word 'again' when they talk about it...
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Round here the commuter trains are often in the middle of long journeys,
between 4 and 10 hours end-to-end. Just because I’m only on board for 15
minutes doesn’t mean everyone else is.
The guard was just locking the only working wash room on a Cardiff
Pompey service last year just as I got there. He suggested I got off at
Cosham so I had him endorse my ticket and caught the following gWr
service with a one hour delay. I claimed my refund for an hour's delay
and got it.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-27 05:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by martin.coffee
The guard was just locking the only working wash room on a Cardiff
Pompey service last year just as I got there. He suggested I got off at
Cosham so I had him endorse my ticket and caught the following gWr
service with a one hour delay. I claimed my refund for an hour's delay
and got it.
If the toilet was working, why was it being locked out of use?


Anna Noyd-Dryver
martin.coffee
2019-01-27 10:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by martin.coffee
The guard was just locking the only working wash room on a Cardiff
Pompey service last year just as I got there. He suggested I got off at
Cosham so I had him endorse my ticket and caught the following gWr
service with a one hour delay. I claimed my refund for an hour's delay
and got it.
If the toilet was working, why was it being locked out of use?
Because it was no longer working!
b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
2019-01-27 13:29:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:20:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
I meant in the sense of them no necessarily being emptied every night.
How else would you deal with the sets which outstable at Hereford,
Worcester and Exeter?
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
I can't remember the last time the toilets in my office failed never mind
my house. As for the locks failing, who the hell cares? Keep it shut with
your
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
foot.
How does that work with a sliding door, a wheelchair user, or even a
non-wheelchair user in the accessible toilets where the door is too far
away? Or the occasional station toilet cubicle where the door opens
outwards...
So make the open inward. Why does it have to slide? How do disabled people
cope in non train toilets?
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The toilets in your house presumably aren’t used as intensively as train
ones? Over the years I’ve known domestic toilets get blocked, flush broken,
flushes which only work with a certain technique, multiple flushes needed
to actually clear the bowl... Mess room toilets which perhaps approach
train toilet frequency of use, get blocked often enough that people add the
word 'again' when they talk about it...
I can barely recall the last time I saw anyone use a toilet on a commuter
train.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Round here the commuter trains are often in the middle of long journeys,
between 4 and 10 hours end-to-end. Just because I’m only on board for 15
minutes doesn’t mean everyone else is.
10 hours? Where the hell is it going from and to?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-27 13:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:20:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:22:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The vacuum flush saves water and retention tank capacity and allows the
train to run a whole day (or maybe two, for those which outstable) without
tanking;
How delightful. A mobile sewage farm.
The alternative is for the entire railway to be the sewage farm.
I meant in the sense of them no necessarily being emptied every night.
How else would you deal with the sets which outstable at Hereford,
Worcester and Exeter?
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
suitable for 10 CET tanks-worth of effluent. I doubt there are suitable
facilities to discharge said mobile vacuum unit either.
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
I can't remember the last time the toilets in my office failed never mind
my house. As for the locks failing, who the hell cares? Keep it shut with
your
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
foot.
How does that work with a sliding door, a wheelchair user, or even a
non-wheelchair user in the accessible toilets where the door is too far
away? Or the occasional station toilet cubicle where the door opens
outwards...
So make the open inward. Why does it have to slide? How do disabled people
cope in non train toilets?
Sliding door allows the toilet cubicle to fit in the space available in the
train.
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The toilets in your house presumably aren’t used as intensively as train
ones? Over the years I’ve known domestic toilets get blocked, flush broken,
flushes which only work with a certain technique, multiple flushes needed
to actually clear the bowl... Mess room toilets which perhaps approach
train toilet frequency of use, get blocked often enough that people add the
word 'again' when they talk about it...
I can barely recall the last time I saw anyone use a toilet on a commuter
train.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Round here the commuter trains are often in the middle of long journeys,
between 4 and 10 hours end-to-end. Just because I’m only on board for 15
minutes doesn’t mean everyone else is.
10 hours? Where the hell is it going from and to?
Edinburgh to Penzance. It forms an early PM peak commuter train from
Bristol.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@imy.gov.uk
2019-01-27 17:40:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
suitable for 10 CET tanks-worth of effluent. I doubt there are suitable
facilities to discharge said mobile vacuum unit either.
Presumably it would use the same facilities as the other methods.
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
So make the open inward. Why does it have to slide? How do disabled people
cope in non train toilets?
Sliding door allows the toilet cubicle to fit in the space available in the
train.
They managed to install toilets on le shuttle with normal doors. People seem
to manage to use them.
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
10 hours? Where the hell is it going from and to?
Edinburgh to Penzance. It forms an early PM peak commuter train from
Bristol.
I doubt many people went end to end.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-28 18:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
Will it fit along the platform, down a flight of stairs, across the 2 feet
wide boarded walkway, and along the ballast down the 4 foot gap between
trains?
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
suitable for 10 CET tanks-worth of effluent. I doubt there are suitable
facilities to discharge said mobile vacuum unit either.
Presumably it would use the same facilities as the other methods.
The fixed equipment at depots have a larger-than-portakabin-sized building
which handles the effluent, and a proper feed into the sewage system.
Neither available at the stabling sidings mentioned.
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
So make the open inward. Why does it have to slide? How do disabled people
cope in non train toilets?
Sliding door allows the toilet cubicle to fit in the space available in the
train.
They managed to install toilets on le shuttle with normal doors. People seem
to manage to use them.
The toilets on Le Shuttle aren’t a great example to compare things to.
They’re disgusting. Clarkson was right to piss in a bottle.
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
10 hours? Where the hell is it going from and to?
Edinburgh to Penzance. It forms an early PM peak commuter train from
Bristol.
I doubt many people went end to end.
I never said they did. I guess a fair number of people make 4-5 hour
journeys though.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
2019-01-29 09:37:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
Will it fit along the platform, down a flight of stairs, across the 2 feet
wide boarded walkway, and along the ballast down the 4 foot gap between
trains?
They could try using a long hose. Honestly, if the railways can't think of
a way to empty a septic tank then they're really up shit creak. Pun intended.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The fixed equipment at depots have a larger-than-portakabin-sized building
which handles the effluent, and a proper feed into the sewage system.
Neither available at the stabling sidings mentioned.
Then they should be.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
They managed to install toilets on le shuttle with normal doors. People seem
to manage to use them.
The toilets on Le Shuttle aren’t a great example to compare things to.
They’re disgusting. Clarkson was right to piss in a bottle.
TBH I don't see the purpose of them either. The journey is only 45 mins.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
Edinburgh to Penzance. It forms an early PM peak commuter train from
Bristol.
I doubt many people went end to end.
I never said they did. I guess a fair number of people make 4-5 hour
journeys though.
Maybe once in a blue moon.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-29 11:09:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
Will it fit along the platform, down a flight of stairs, across the 2 feet
wide boarded walkway, and along the ballast down the 4 foot gap between
trains?
They could try using a long hose. Honestly, if the railways can't think of
a way to empty a septic tank then they're really up shit creak. Pun intended.
It’s a problem which literally doesn’t need to be solved.

In any case I wouldn’t fancy dragging a 250m long 15cm diameter collection
of hoses around on ballast, particularly if the largest of them’s full of
shit.
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The fixed equipment at depots have a larger-than-portakabin-sized building
which handles the effluent, and a proper feed into the sewage system.
Neither available at the stabling sidings mentioned.
Then they should be.
Why? These are sidings around the back of the station, or 1/4 mile away,
which stable a handful of trains for a few hours overnight, between last
service in the evening and first service in the morning. The trains are
designed to be able to stable overnight without visiting a depot.
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Edinburgh to Penzance. It forms an early PM peak commuter train from
Bristol.
I doubt many people went end to end.
I never said they did. I guess a fair number of people make 4-5 hour
journeys though.
Maybe once in a blue moon.
When I board at Exeter to travel back to Bristol I notice a lot of
reservations for Leeds, Sheffield, York etc, so clearly not as few people
as you think make long distance train journeys.

I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Basil Jet
2019-01-29 11:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.
Isn't this data skewed by the fact that people getting on at the origin
probably don't bother getting reservations?
--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
http://youtu.be/RtJEAud9vao
Someone Somewhere
2019-01-29 11:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.
Isn't this data skewed by the fact that people getting on at the origin
probably don't bother getting reservations?
Many (advance purchase) tickets force a reservation on you. I wouldn't
mind, but whilst there's a penalty (whether actual, or just the risk of
being forced to move when any other seat option has gone) for sitting in
a reserved seat, there's no penalty for not taking up a reservation.

It's even worse when you buy an open return and they suggest a (free)
reservation when there's only a small chance you'll take that actual train.

I remember once getting a train from Euston where I walked the length of
the train to my assigned seat in coach A to be confronted by a sea of
reservations and a similar number of empty seats. The carriage remained
almost completely empty as far as my destination of Stone (from memory).
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-29 20:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.
Isn't this data skewed by the fact that people getting on at the origin
probably don't bother getting reservations?
After posting that I found I was only looking at half of the reservations!
Once I was looking at them all I found lots of shorter reserved legs
earlier in the journey, eg Paddington-Swindon, Reading-Bath etc.

Relevant to a recent Roland thread, I found a number of seats reserved for
three different legs but none for more than three. Presumably this reflects
the current need for compatibility with paper labels.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@h9z_.co.uk
2019-01-29 12:07:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 11:09:32 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
Will it fit along the platform, down a flight of stairs, across the 2 feet
wide boarded walkway, and along the ballast down the 4 foot gap between
trains?
They could try using a long hose. Honestly, if the railways can't think of
a way to empty a septic tank then they're really up shit creak. Pun intended.
It’s a problem which literally doesn’t need to be solved.
Tanks full, toilets out of service, train not allowed to run, passengers
left pissed off on platforms. Thats why it needs to be solved.
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
Maybe once in a blue moon.
When I board at Exeter to travel back to Bristol I notice a lot of
reservations for Leeds, Sheffield, York etc, so clearly not as few people
as you think make long distance train journeys.
Doesn't mean they were boarding at bristol, just that the seats will be used
at some point.
I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.
None of those are particularly long journeys.
Natalie Amery
2019-01-29 13:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@h9z_.co.uk
Tanks full, toilets out of service, train not allowed to run, passengers
left pissed off on platforms. Thats why it needs to be solved.
When was the last time you were on a train that was taken out of
service because the toilets were merely out of service? Nowadays they
seem to keep operating even if entire carriages are flooded...
--
Natalie Amery. My song is love unknown,
##### My Saviour's love to me,
#######__o Love to the loveless shown,
#######'/ That they might lovely be. - Samuel Crossman
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-29 20:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@h9z_.co.uk
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 11:09:32 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:55:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@vxtn8ieq8qkvv8gybof.ac.uk
A portable vacuum unit to empty them. How else?
The walkways along the stabling sidings aren’t sufficient for a mobile
vacuum unit (does such a thing even exist?) let alone a wheeled tank
Have you never seen the lorry that empties a septic tank?
Will it fit along the platform, down a flight of stairs, across the 2 feet
wide boarded walkway, and along the ballast down the 4 foot gap between
trains?
They could try using a long hose. Honestly, if the railways can't think of
a way to empty a septic tank then they're really up shit creak. Pun intended.
It’s a problem which literally doesn’t need to be solved.
Tanks full, toilets out of service, train not allowed to run, passengers
left pissed off on platforms. Thats why it needs to be solved.
I’m talking, very specifically, about outstabling 800s at three particular
locations. 800 toilets have their problems but full tanks is not one of
them. (Low water pressure despite the water tank being plenty full enough
seems to be the main one).

I’ve not heard of an 800 'not allowed to run' from an outstabling point due
to problems relating to the toilets not having been emptied.
Post by b***@h9z_.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
Maybe once in a blue moon.
When I board at Exeter to travel back to Bristol I notice a lot of
reservations for Leeds, Sheffield, York etc, so clearly not as few people
as you think make long distance train journeys.
Doesn't mean they were boarding at bristol, just that the seats will be used
at some point.
XC reservations displays say "reserved until" if it’s a current
reservation, "reserved from X-Y" for reservations starting now or
"available until" for future reservations; I’m only talking about
reservations from Exeter (or before) to places in Yorkshire.
Post by b***@h9z_.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I’ve just interrogated the reservations list for the Padd-Penzance train I
worked part way this morning, and although there are actually no
reservations for the full Padd-Pz journey, there are quite a few
Pad/Reading-Plymouth, a number of Bristol-Truro, and some Bristol-St Erth.
None of those are particularly long journeys.
3.5 hours, 3h20, 3h50.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
David Cantrell
2019-01-30 10:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I never said they did. I guess a fair number of people make 4-5 hour
journeys though.
Maybe once in a blue moon.
Individually that might be true, but there's enough of 'em that you can
expect there to be plenty of people doing it on every long distance
train.
--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Aluminum makes a nice hat.
All paranoids will tell you that.
But what most do not know
Is reflections will show
On the CIA's evil landsat.
Sam Wilson
2019-01-30 10:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
They managed to install toilets on le shuttle with normal doors. People seem
to manage to use them.
The toilets on Le Shuttle aren’t a great example to compare things to.
They’re disgusting. Clarkson was right to piss in a bottle.
TBH I don't see the purpose of them either. The journey is only 45 mins.
You've just driven down the M20, rushing to get to your shuttle on
time, and when you make it you relax and need a pee. Makes sense to me.

FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.

Sam
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-31 03:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by b***@o8tz1p5oupr.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:56:13 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@imy.gov.uk
They managed to install toilets on le shuttle with normal doors. People seem
to manage to use them.
The toilets on Le Shuttle aren’t a great example to compare things to.
They’re disgusting. Clarkson was right to piss in a bottle.
TBH I don't see the purpose of them either. The journey is only 45 mins.
You've just driven down the M20, rushing to get to your shuttle on
time, and when you make it you relax and need a pee. Makes sense to me.
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
half of each train is double and one half single. On both types there’s a
narrow 'pavement' down the sides of the 'roadway'.

On the double deck carriages, there’s a toilet underneath the stairs in
every third carriage. On single deck trains there are two toilets in each
of the end carriages. They’re narrow due to location and my recollection of
them is filthy, stinky and disgusting.

They’re not wheelchair accessible due to lack of width, and also you
wouldn’t be able to get there from your car unless you happened to be
parked right next to the toilet.

<Loading Image...>


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
2019-01-31 10:02:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
They’re not wheelchair accessible due to lack of width, and also you
wouldn’t be able to get there from your car unless you happened to be
parked right next to the toilet.
Its hard enough to open the doors between cars if you're able bodied. They
seem to be designed to discourage wandering around the train.
Graeme Wall
2019-01-31 10:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Where do you think all the Transits on the booze and fags shuffle go?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
b***@03zxhdsg.com
2019-01-31 10:25:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:11:26 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Where do you think all the Transits on the booze and fags shuffle go?
No idea. I assume these single deck carraiges are the same height externally
as the double deck ones because I'd have noticed them otherwise and that
vans and caravans have a different boarding point to the cars.
Sam Wilson
2019-01-31 10:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@03zxhdsg.com
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:11:26 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Where do you think all the Transits on the booze and fags shuffle go?
No idea. I assume these single deck carraiges are the same height externally
as the double deck ones because I'd have noticed them otherwise and that
vans and caravans have a different boarding point to the cars.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurotunnel_Shuttle#Passenger_vehicles>

Sam
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-31 11:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@03zxhdsg.com
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:11:26 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Where do you think all the Transits on the booze and fags shuffle go?
No idea. I assume these single deck carraiges are the same height externally
as the double deck ones because I'd have noticed them otherwise and that
vans and caravans have a different boarding point to the cars.
Yes, externally they are of very similar appearance (only one row of
windows is probably the main distinguishing feature), the loading wagons
are different though.

Vehicles requiring the higher loading gauge (*grin*) will be sorted when
booking; vehicles which don’t require it but are out there for capacity
reasons will be sorted at check in. The two halves of the train have
separate entrance and exits to the platform which can be clearly seen on
google maps; they’re served from the same set of "sorting sidings" though
(the numbered lanes where you wait to be called).


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Graeme Wall
2019-01-31 11:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@03zxhdsg.com
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:11:26 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Where do you think all the Transits on the booze and fags shuffle go?
No idea. I assume these single deck carraiges are the same height externally
as the double deck ones because I'd have noticed them otherwise and that
vans and caravans have a different boarding point to the cars.
That is the clue.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-31 10:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@o2yish0qvcm66_y.edu
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:33:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Sam Wilson
FTAOD I've never been on Le Shuttle and therefore have no experience of
their tiolets, but from the description I'd guess people who use
wheelchairs don't use them at all, unless "normal doors" includes ones
that open outwards, in which case you've just created a potentially
wasted space outside the tiolet which needs to be kept clear for anyone
to use it.
The Le Shuttle car carriages are either single or double deck. Usually one
You sure? I've never seen a single deck car carraige. I thought it was only
the truck wagons and the drivers carraige that were single deck.
Yes, very sure. Campervans, coaches, SUVs etc which won’t fit in the double
deck carriages. I’ve always used Le Shuttle in a sports car with low ground
clearance, travelling with a group of identical cars; due to the low ground
clearance they always put us on the bottom deck (without being asked! I’m
sure we’d be fine upstairs), and over 50% of the time we’re in a single
deck carriage. They’re the same outside dimensions, but twice as tall
inside.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Marland
2019-01-26 23:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough to
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but thats
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Thought you had children?
Many youngsters are not able to go for hours without having to go the
toilet and many seem to want use one soon after all preparations have been
completed ,possibly brought on by excitement.
Would not like to spend the time on a long journey in the vicinity of an 7
year old who has shit himself and a child of that age will not be in
nappies.
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
I would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where such as
crossrail where off train facilities can not be too far away and frequent
services make journey interruptions not the end of the world but there are
many journeys around the 3 to 5 hour length such as Waterloo Exeter that
some would fine awkward, your proposal that people could get off at
stations might work for a single traveller , but they might be giving up a
reserved seat. Could be even worse for a family who would have to get off
at successive stops as each sprog
decides its their time to go.

GH
b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
2019-01-27 13:31:57 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Jan 2019 23:10:47 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but
thats
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Thought you had children?
Many youngsters are not able to go for hours without having to go the
toilet and many seem to want use one soon after all preparations have been
completed ,possibly brought on by excitement.
Would not like to spend the time on a long journey in the vicinity of an 7
year old who has shit himself and a child of that age will not be in
nappies.
Which is why when we go out as a family we take the car. I'll put up with
delays and all the usual PT bullshit when I'm commuting into London but not on
holiday or for a nice day out.
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Marland
2019-01-27 14:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
On 26 Jan 2019 23:10:47 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland but
thats
Post by b***@a8c4aasewfh1jfnae9.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@9xuuxcpxmy5ssuxi97gzn_.org
not a commuter train.
People travelling 5h30 from Paddington to Penzance might disagree.
Possibly, but those sort of journeys are probably 1 in 1000. There's little
reason to have toilets on most multiple units IMO, certainly not something
like Thameslink where the average journey is probably 45 mins.
Thought you had children?
Many youngsters are not able to go for hours without having to go the
toilet and many seem to want use one soon after all preparations have been
completed ,possibly brought on by excitement.
Would not like to spend the time on a long journey in the vicinity of an 7
year old who has shit himself and a child of that age will not be in
nappies.
Which is why when we go out as a family we take the car. I'll put up with
delays and all the usual PT bullshit when I'm commuting into London but not on
holiday or for a nice day out.
Fine that solution suits you, not every family has a car or wants to use
one for every journey.
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
be accepted as the industrial revolution moved women away from homes into
jobs at factories .
Even then long distance travel was the preserve of the better off who could
afford it , they would often have servant who carried a chamber pot and
where the long dresses of the era provided some modesty, women only
compartments were not just there to guard against sexual assault.

Victorian newspapers and catalogues carried many and ad for urine bottles
that could be used in such circumstances, it is a sign of the times with
many public toilets being closed that modern equivalents are being sold in
quite large numbers from well known high street names for motorists and
others .

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5718751

GH
b***@ngh4i.co.uk
2019-01-27 17:42:37 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
Marland
2019-01-27 21:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
You followed up my mentioning of longer trips like Waterloo-Exeter to tell
us that for such journeys you take your family in the car so you were
already aware that I was not talking about short commuter journeys when you
replied as my post said said “
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual cycles and smaller bladder capacity when
pregnant often means they need toilet facilities more often than men. I
would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where “, so it was
fairly obvious we had moved onto longer distance services prompted by your
absurd statement upthread
“Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland”.

It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”

Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
even if you can’t keep track of what you read and write.


GH
Recliner
2019-01-27 22:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
You followed up my mentioning of longer trips like Waterloo-Exeter to tell
us that for such journeys you take your family in the car so you were
already aware that I was not talking about short commuter journeys when you
replied as my post said said “
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual cycles and smaller bladder capacity when
pregnant often means they need toilet facilities more often than men. I
would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where “, so it was
fairly obvious we had moved onto longer distance services prompted by your
absurd statement upthread
“Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland”.
It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”
Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
even if you can’t keep track of what you read and write.
Welcome to Neil Robertson's world.

It simply isn't worth having a discussion with him. Most of us no longer
bother.
b***@mlfw3mr1k3_f3k2rlooa.com
2019-01-28 10:16:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:16:57 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Marland
It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”
Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
even if you can’t keep track of what you read and write.
Welcome to Neil Robertson's world.
It simply isn't worth having a discussion with him. Most of us no longer
bother.
You don't bother because you always end up painted in a corner. Still, you're
used to being on your own arn't you Billy.
b***@x0bn8c_a1h0qpyq9cfsk1.com
2019-01-28 10:14:53 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Jan 2019 21:42:28 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
You followed up my mentioning of longer trips like Waterloo-Exeter to tell
us that for such journeys you take your family in the car so you were
already aware that I was not talking about short commuter journeys when you
replied as my post said said “
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual cycles and smaller bladder capacity when
pregnant often means they need toilet facilities more often than men. I
would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where “, so it was
fairly obvious we had moved onto longer distance services prompted by your
absurd statement upthread
“Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland”.
It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”
Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
Not you though since you obviously missed the bit where I spoke about
thamelinks. Or did you think that was a long distance service?
Jonathan Amery
2019-01-28 10:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@x0bn8c_a1h0qpyq9cfsk1.com
Not you though since you obviously missed the bit where I spoke about
thamelinks. Or did you think that was a long distance service?
Cambridge to Brighton is 2h25m as timetabled. I'm usually on mine
for over half of that and the toilets appear to get a fair amount of
use particularly on the approach to the Canal Tunnels.

I will occasionally use them myself on the approach to London Bridge
if I need to since however foul they are they can't possibly be worse
than the toilets in London Bridge station and if not then I'm stuck
until I get off at Sidcup.
--
Jonathan Amery. There's a light that is shining in the heart of a man,
##### There's a light that was shining when the world began.
#######__o There's a light that is shining in the Turk and the Jew
#######'/ And a light that is shining, friend in me and in you.
Marland
2019-01-28 11:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@x0bn8c_a1h0qpyq9cfsk1.com
Post by Marland
“Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland”.
It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”
Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
Not you though since you obviously missed the bit where I spoke about
thamelinks. Or did you think that was a long distance service?
You asked the question “How did they cope in the past” when it was quite
clear the thread had moved onto the problems your silly proposal to remove
all train toilets except sleepers would create.
That you spoke about about Thameslink as well doesn’t camouflage that no
matter how much you try and convince that you only meant services like
theirs all along because you realised how stupid your initiall extreme
stance was.
You can resort to Boltar bluster as much as you like but what you wrote is
out there.

GH
b***@_5zf0fwk3e7.edu
2019-01-28 12:11:49 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Jan 2019 11:06:05 GMT
Post by b***@x0bn8c_a1h0qpyq9cfsk1.com
Post by Marland
“Perhaps install more toilets in stations and get rid of them on trains
altogether. We're a small island, there are no journeys really long enough
to make them worthwhile except maybe the overnight sleeper to scotland”.
It was after that you asked “ How did they cope in the past?”
Now you trying to claim that you were talking solely about commuter trains
again in attempt to bolster your weak proposal. Won’t wash Pal, others can
follow a thread that shows your arguments descending into impracticality
Not you though since you obviously missed the bit where I spoke about
thamelinks. Or did you think that was a long distance service?
You asked the question “How did they cope in the past” when it was quite
clear the thread had moved onto the problems your silly proposal to remove
all train toilets except sleepers would create.
That you spoke about about Thameslink as well doesn’t camouflage that no
matter how much you try and convince that you only meant services like
theirs all along because you realised how stupid your initiall extreme
stance was.
There are few services in this country long enough to justify train toilets
IMO. Sure, some run long distance but most are not the sort of services people
stay on end to end, WCML and ECML excepted.
You can resort to Boltar bluster as much as you like but what you wrote is
out there.
It is. Why not try reading it.
David Cantrell
2019-01-29 10:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@_5zf0fwk3e7.edu
There are few services in this country long enough to justify train toilets
IMO. Sure, some run long distance but most are not the sort of services people
stay on end to end, WCML and ECML excepted.
I hope for your sake you never have to travel between London and
Hastings with a small child, or while elderly, or while pregnant, or
while drunk. You get plenty of day-trippers doing that as well as
commuters. That's 1h45-ish. London to Bristol is about the same.
--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

There is no one true indentation style,
But if there were K&R would be Its Prophets.
Peace be upon Their Holy Beards.
b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
2019-01-29 10:50:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:45:59 +0000
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@_5zf0fwk3e7.edu
There are few services in this country long enough to justify train toilets
IMO. Sure, some run long distance but most are not the sort of services
people
Post by b***@_5zf0fwk3e7.edu
stay on end to end, WCML and ECML excepted.
I hope for your sake you never have to travel between London and
Hastings with a small child, or while elderly, or while pregnant, or
while drunk. You get plenty of day-trippers doing that as well as
I have no sympathy for drunks and they wouldn't use the toilet anyway.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
commuters. That's 1h45-ish. London to Bristol is about the same.
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
John Levine
2019-01-29 18:49:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
b***@um3_7e7j1sl1p.gov
2019-01-29 20:34:30 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:49:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by John Levine
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
I do hope not.
Marland
2019-01-29 23:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@um3_7e7j1sl1p.gov
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:49:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by John Levine
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
I do hope not.
Be careful what you wish for.
The way things are going you might have bigger worries by the time you
reach those sort of ages ,
Too expensive for the state to keep aged bodies going in a couple of
decades so you pay yourself or peg it like back in the 19th century unless
you have taken out a good and costly health care package.
And even if you can obtain that do you think it will be available for your
children spending most of their income
on accommodation for most of their lives.

So far I can still if necessary not go for more than 12 hours and I’m in my
sixth decade, the people I’ve known
that start to have serious problems have been late 70’s to 90’s.
That just happens to be the same age bracket that some should be encouraged
to stop driving or actually have their licence taken away .

That means they would not be in a position to do what you suggest and drive
along A roads if they need frequent toilet breaks though I suppose there
is an outside chance the self driving car may be reality in a couple of
decades.

GH
Roland Perry
2019-01-30 08:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by b***@um3_7e7j1sl1p.gov
Post by John Levine
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
I do hope not.
Be careful what you wish for.
I wish people would:
___________________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please don't |
/ O O\__ feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
--
Roland Perry
b***@bwjxw.gov.uk
2019-01-30 10:13:33 UTC
Permalink
On 29 Jan 2019 23:41:04 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@um3_7e7j1sl1p.gov
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:49:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by John Levine
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
I do hope not.
Be careful what you wish for.
The way things are going you might have bigger worries by the time you
reach those sort of ages ,
Yes, but I suspect not the sort you're thinking of. The way climate change
is going I dread to think of the state things will be in in 30 years time.
Post by Marland
along A roads if they need frequent toilet breaks though I suppose there
is an outside chance the self driving car may be reality in a couple of
decades.
Maybe, but I have my doubts. The technology is way over hyped and can't cope
away from the nice wide straight roads of north america.
David Cantrell
2019-01-30 10:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@um3_7e7j1sl1p.gov
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:49:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by John Levine
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
You'll understand when you're older.
I do hope not.
I hope you do. I wouldn't wish that level of mental deterioriation on
anyone. Partly because I don't wish you ill, partly because it's
unpleasant to be near someone who has pissed himself.
--
David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing

THIS IS THE LANGUAGE POLICE
PUT DOWN YOUR THESAURUS
STEP AWAY FROM THE CLICHE
David Cantrell
2019-01-30 10:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:45:59 +0000
Post by David Cantrell
I hope for your sake you never have to travel between London and
Hastings with a small child, or while elderly, or while pregnant, or
while drunk. You get plenty of day-trippers doing that as well as
I have no sympathy for drunks and they wouldn't use the toilet anyway.
I'll have you know that I have *never* pissed myself, or got my knob out
and pissed all over a train, while drunk. But I've travelled zillions of
times after having a few beers.

I, like you, have no sympathy for those who are completely shitfaced,
but the number of people who travel after having had a few is vast.
Post by b***@aeyov6rjjgm4.gov.uk
Post by David Cantrell
commuters. That's 1h45-ish. London to Bristol is about the same.
If someone can't hold it for that length of time then they need to see a
doctor.
And what treatment would the doctor recommend for someone whose
"illness" is childhood, pregnancy, or being old? Indeed, needing a piss
more often than normal is a side-effect of several medical treatments.
Should the doctor tell his patients "don't take your drugs, just die"?
--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Immigration: making Britain great since AD43
Charles Ellson
2019-01-27 23:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
Post by Marland
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
Peeing out of train windows ? We're both equal on that now.
b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
2019-01-28 10:19:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:51:26 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Google tampons and sanitary towels.
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
Post by Marland
How far back is your past, we have had toilets on most long distance
trains since the early 20th century,and public toilets for women began to
I'm not talking about long distance, I'm talking about commuter trains.
Anyway, femninists are always telling us there's no difference between men
and women bar the obvious so...
Peeing out of train windows ? We're both equal on that now.
If youve got the shits don't travel otherwise take a dump before you do. Its
not complicated and if you keep getting caught short then see a doctor.
Charles Ellson
2019-01-28 18:33:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:19:27 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:51:26 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female whose
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Google tampons and sanitary towels.
https://plan-uk.org/media-centre/1-in-10-girls-have-been-unable-to-afford-sanitary-wear-survey-finds
b***@7ly7.gov
2019-01-29 09:34:29 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:33:11 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:19:27 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:51:26 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female
whose
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Google tampons and sanitary towels.
https://plan-uk.org/media-centre/1-in-10-girls-have-been-unable-to-afford-sanit
ary-wear-survey-finds
But I bet their parents can still afford the Sky subscription and fags.
Charles Ellson
2019-01-30 02:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@7ly7.gov
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:33:11 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:19:27 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:51:26 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
On 27 Jan 2019 14:23:46 GMT
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
Then there is the large percentage of the population who are female
whose
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@ngh4i.co.uk
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
Post by Marland
different plumbing ,menstrual
cycles and smaller bladder capacity when pregnant often means they need
toilet facilities more often than men.
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Google tampons and sanitary towels.
https://plan-uk.org/media-centre/1-in-10-girls-have-been-unable-to-afford-sanit
ary-wear-survey-finds
But I bet their parents can still afford the Sky subscription and fags.
You are IDS AICMFP.
Marland
2019-01-30 08:53:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@7ly7.gov
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@bxts46r8d1t57ll6r.co.uk
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
How did they cope in the past?
Stayed at home in the absence of suitable facilities or supplies? It
still happens now - Google for "period poverty".
Google tampons and sanitary towels.
https://plan-uk.org/media-centre/1-in-10-girls-have-been-unable-to-afford-sanit
ary-wear-survey-finds
But I bet their parents can still afford the Sky subscription and fags.
You are IDS AICMFP.
More like IBS .

GH
Roger Lynn
2019-01-27 15:20:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
On 26 Jan 2019 23:10:47 GMT
Post by Marland
Thought you had children?
Many youngsters are not able to go for hours without having to go the
toilet and many seem to want use one soon after all preparations have been
completed ,possibly brought on by excitement.
Would not like to spend the time on a long journey in the vicinity of an 7
year old who has shit himself and a child of that age will not be in
nappies.
Which is why when we go out as a family we take the car. I'll put up with
delays and all the usual PT bullshit when I'm commuting into London but not on
holiday or for a nice day out.
Strange, that's one of the reasons why I prefer to travel by train as a
family, so that every time time someone needs the toilet we don't have to
find somewhere to stop, with all the associated delays, they can just go and
use the toilet on the train.

Roger
b***@l69yqrqy.org
2019-01-27 17:44:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:20:11 +0000
Post by Roger Lynn
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
On 26 Jan 2019 23:10:47 GMT
Post by Marland
Thought you had children?
Many youngsters are not able to go for hours without having to go the
toilet and many seem to want use one soon after all preparations have been
completed ,possibly brought on by excitement.
Would not like to spend the time on a long journey in the vicinity of an 7
year old who has shit himself and a child of that age will not be in
nappies.
Which is why when we go out as a family we take the car. I'll put up with
delays and all the usual PT bullshit when I'm commuting into London but not
on
Post by b***@_gl3f9ey00cuzfl.co.uk
holiday or for a nice day out.
Strange, that's one of the reasons why I prefer to travel by train as a
family, so that every time time someone needs the toilet we don't have to
find somewhere to stop, with all the associated delays, they can just go and
use the toilet on the train.
This is the UK, not the outback. There are pubs and service stations along
almost all roads. Finding somewhere to stop is usually a 15 min job at most
plus service station toilets are a damn site nicer than some stinking cramped
cupboard on a train.
Jonathan Amery
2019-01-28 10:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@l69yqrqy.org
This is the UK, not the outback. There are pubs and service stations along
almost all roads. Finding somewhere to stop is usually a 15 min job at most
plus service station toilets are a damn site nicer than some stinking cramped
cupboard on a train.
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday. We would
frequently travel the last hour entirely on B roads or worse and in
those days rural pubs wouldn't let children in even just to use the
toilets; I have no idea if that's improved since I don't have any of
my own.

For that matter the few motorway services I have the misfortune to
encounter are rarely even as clean as railway toilets.
--
Jonathan Amery. O who am I,
##### That for my sake
#######__o My Lord should take
#######'/ Frail flesh and die? - Samuel Crossman
b***@20qed.gov.uk
2019-01-28 12:10:28 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Jan 2019 10:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
Post by b***@l69yqrqy.org
This is the UK, not the outback. There are pubs and service stations along
almost all roads. Finding somewhere to stop is usually a 15 min job at most
plus service station toilets are a damn site nicer than some stinking cramped
cupboard on a train.
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday. We would
Nothing boring about Europe.
Post by Jonathan Amery
frequently travel the last hour entirely on B roads or worse and in
Where are you going where you need to travel for an hour on B roads? Northern
Scotland?
Post by Jonathan Amery
those days rural pubs wouldn't let children in even just to use the
toilets; I have no idea if that's improved since I don't have any of
my own.
These days most "pubs" are just family restaurants in disguise. Whether thats
a good thing or not probably depends on whether you have kids.
Post by Jonathan Amery
For that matter the few motorway services I have the misfortune to
encounter are rarely even as clean as railway toilets.
Its probably a toss up with station toilets vs service station toilets for
cleanliness. But most *train* toilets are usually fairly disgusting in the
few times I've seen in.
Jonathan Amery
2019-01-28 12:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
Where are you going where you need to travel for an hour on B roads? Northern
Scotland?
Destinations included the Lake District, Mid-Wales, North York Moors,
and East Anglia (although in East Anglia I suspect those roads were
officially A roads).

Nowadays I don't own a car so...
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
Post by Jonathan Amery
For that matter the few motorway services I have the misfortune to
encounter are rarely even as clean as railway toilets.
Its probably a toss up with station toilets vs service station toilets for
cleanliness. But most *train* toilets are usually fairly disgusting in the
few times I've seen in.
With the exception of Sidcup station which is basic but kept nicely
clean and Kings Cross where I'm always surprised by the cleanlyness
I'd probably put the train and station toilets the other way around in
the parts of the SE I travel in regularly.
--
Jonathan Amery. For the wonders that astound us,
##### For the truths that still confound us,
#######__o Most of all that love has found us,
#######'/ Thanks be to God. - F. Pratt Green
Basil Jet
2019-01-28 13:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Amery
and Kings Cross where I'm always surprised by the cleanlyness
Maybe because no-one uses them because the ones at St Pancras are free?
--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
http://youtu.be/RtJEAud9vao
b***@pd_ys0364p5am380gy.net
2019-01-29 09:32:11 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Jan 2019 12:33:11 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
Where are you going where you need to travel for an hour on B roads? Northern
Scotland?
Destinations included the Lake District, Mid-Wales, North York Moors,
and East Anglia (although in East Anglia I suspect those roads were
officially A roads).
You must have driven fairly leisurely then. Few places in England at least are
far from A roads these days.
Arthur Figgis
2019-01-28 18:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
On 28 Jan 2019 10:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday.
Nothing boring about Europe.
Frankfurt is a thing in Europe.

(thinking of the /M version... I've only ever passed through /O, which
for all I know might be like Barcelona on a bank holiday Friday when
someone is offering free beer)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
b***@96455xn8edgpq2.gov.uk
2019-01-29 09:33:41 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:08:00 +0000
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
On 28 Jan 2019 10:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday.
Nothing boring about Europe.
Frankfurt is a thing in Europe.
(thinking of the /M version... I've only ever passed through /O, which
for all I know might be like Barcelona on a bank holiday Friday when
someone is offering free beer)
I've been to the business Frankfurt once. It was enough for one lifetime tbh.
Clean, efficient, friendly (for germany) but totally and utterly boring as hell.
Jeremy Double
2019-01-29 12:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@96455xn8edgpq2.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:08:00 +0000
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
On 28 Jan 2019 10:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday.
Nothing boring about Europe.
Frankfurt is a thing in Europe.
(thinking of the /M version... I've only ever passed through /O, which
for all I know might be like Barcelona on a bank holiday Friday when
someone is offering free beer)
I've been to the business Frankfurt once. It was enough for one lifetime tbh.
Clean, efficient, friendly (for germany) but totally and utterly boring as hell.
You didn’t go to the Feldbahnmuseum, then?

https://flic.kr/p/5zgANt
--
Jeremy Double
b***@l2gwzolb3843bgx.com
2019-01-29 20:33:56 UTC
Permalink
On 29 Jan 2019 12:20:49 GMT
Post by b***@96455xn8edgpq2.gov.uk
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:08:00 +0000
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by b***@20qed.gov.uk
On 28 Jan 2019 10:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Post by Jonathan Amery
You must go to some fairly boring places for holiday.
Nothing boring about Europe.
Frankfurt is a thing in Europe.
(thinking of the /M version... I've only ever passed through /O, which
for all I know might be like Barcelona on a bank holiday Friday when
someone is offering free beer)
I've been to the business Frankfurt once. It was enough for one lifetime tbh.
Clean, efficient, friendly (for germany) but totally and utterly boring as
hell.
You didn’t go to the Feldbahnmuseum, then?
https://flic.kr/p/5zgANt
No, but looks like an interesting place. However we were only in the city for
a day just passing through.
Arthur Figgis
2019-01-27 22:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
I would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where such as
crossrail where off train facilities can not be too far away and frequent
services make journey interruptions not the end of the world
Unless something unpredictable happens, like it gets cold at Lewisham in
winter.

IIRC the Dutch decided trains didn't need tiolets - the (European bit
of) The Netherlands is quite compact - but they soon changed their mind
and it is now a requirement.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Charles Ellson
2019-01-27 23:53:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:29:48 +0000, Arthur Figgis
Post by Arthur Figgis
I would agree you don’t need toilets on commuter trains where such as
crossrail where off train facilities can not be too far away and frequent
services make journey interruptions not the end of the world
Unless something unpredictable happens, like it gets cold at Lewisham in
winter.
You want to try South Bermondsey. :-(
Post by Arthur Figgis
IIRC the Dutch decided trains didn't need tiolets - the (European bit
of) The Netherlands is quite compact - but they soon changed their mind
and it is now a requirement.
Robin9
2019-01-28 09:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Yes, at least there are lavatories on the island platform
at Lewisham. South Bermondsey, on an embankment
which must be cold in winter, is less accommodating


--
Robin9
b***@ulijv7ch57e.org
2019-01-21 12:14:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:53:47 +0000
Post by Clive Page
Post by Recliner
Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.
I travel quite often on the new-fangled Siemens class 700 trains on
Thameslink, which are fitted with passenger information screens at intervals
in each carriage. Almost every day I travel I'm on a train where some or all
of these screens fail, most often going completely blank part-way through the
journey. Sometimes the screens spring back to life at City Thameslink or
Farringdon when the power source is changed and I guess some parts of the
system are rebooted, but not always. I wonder if the train companies are even
aware of these problems - there's no obvious way of reporting them.
At least thats not a show stopper, the trains can still be used. It seems
Siemens seem to have their ducks in line unlike Bombadier when it comes to
the important subsystems.
Jonathan Amery
2019-01-21 12:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Page
I travel quite often on the new-fangled Siemens class 700 trains on Thameslink, which are fitted with passenger information screens at intervals in each carriage. Almost every day I travel I'm on a train where some or all of these screens fail, most often going completely blank part-way through the journey. Sometimes the screens spring back to life at City Thameslink or Farringdon when the power source is changed and I guess some parts of the system are rebooted, but not always. I wonder if the train companies are even aware of these problems - there's no obvious way of reporting them.
I suspect TL twitter have got bored of me sending them tweets showing
displays doing odd things...
--
Jonathan Amery. God says "Who will go for me? Who will extend my reach?
##### And who, when few will listen, will prophecy and preach?
#######__o And who, when few bid welcome, will offer all they know?
#######'/ And who, when few dare follow, will walk the road I show?
Peter Able
2019-01-22 16:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Lest you think that this is just a case of hide-bound traction and rolling
stock engineers unable to cope with new fangled technology
http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2019.01.21.04.02.archive.txt
Actually, that is how I suspect it is.

It was disappointing, at least to this retired engineer, how
unexpectedly severe EMC on the ECML was a recent issue. Now
unexpectedly severe software interface issues arise.

You can put it down to "loss of memory" as everyone seems to be keen to
do - or you can face the real issue which, IMHO, is the narrowness of
learning of modern engineers.

PA
Peter Able
2019-01-22 17:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Lest you think that this is just a case of hide-bound traction and rolling
stock engineers unable to cope with new fangled technology
http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2019.01.21.04.02.archive.txt
Actually, that is how I suspect it is.

It was disappointing, at least to this retired engineer, how
unexpectedly severe EMC on the ECML was a recent issue. Now
unexpectedly severe software interface issues arise.

You can put it down to "loss of memory" as everyone seems to be keen to
do - or you can face the real issue which, IMHO, is the narrowness of
learning of modern engineers.

PA
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-01-23 09:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Engineers commissioning the new generation of software-enabled trains are
facing the problem that pretty well every system, and even sub-system, on
their train is computer controlled with its own software. This also has to
interface with the train’s third party software based systems.
For example, during a recent run in a Great Western Railway Class 800 the
Universal Access Toilet was all lit up, but the door had lost power and
wouldn’t lock. When I reported this failure to a member of the on-board
staff, she replied that it was a common issue and the toilet needed
re-booting.
IMX the two usual problems with the UAT are door and water.

The door has two main problems, both arising when it’s not left to 'do its
own thing'. The main one is that after unlocking the door, it seems to take
about 1/2 second for the door open button to become responsive. Press it
too quick and the door doesn’t open despite the button being illuminated.
People then push the door manually to open it and the toilet declares
itself out of use because it thinks the door is broken. Solution - push it
closed and it’s happy again. The second door problem is similar - sometimes
a cant, or an over-enthusiastic door mech, makes the door bounce back
slightly off the frame - only a centimetre or so, but enough that the
toilet declares itself OOU. The solution is the same as before.

Water pressure (distinct from water level or waste tank level) seems to be
a recurring problem across the fleet - I’ve taken a 9-car from Stoke
Gifford to Swindon empty and by the time I got to Swindon 5 toilets had
declared themselves failed! This is the failure which results in either
empty pan (rather than the usual couple of inches of water in the bottom)
or, if used, full pan (not flushing). The UATs lock themselves out of use
in this situation, something the regular toilets can’t do. This fault can
sometimes, but rarely IMX, be solved by pressing the ‘reset’ button behind
the mirror.

The other annoying thing will the UAT module is that the tap sensor is
offset some way to the left of both the water outlet and the symbol above
it.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
d***@gmail.com
2019-01-24 08:41:21 UTC
Permalink
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Optimist
2019-01-24 13:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Go away, pest.

Complaint sent.
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CALL OR TEXT (949) 228-9436
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Wickr me ID:.......duroharry
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what you need..i also offer sample to built trust
see prices
FOR DIAZEPAM AND KETAMINE SMALLER ORDER
diazepam 10mg 300pills £25
diazepam 10mg 500pills £40
diazepam 5mg 1000pills £60
ketamine £20 each vial/1g
FOR DIAZEPAM AND KETAMINE BULK ORDER
diazepam 10mg 1000pills £65
diazepam 10mg 5000pills £280
diazepam 5mg 1000pills £60
diazepam 5mg 5000pills £270
diazepam 5mg 10000pills £270
diazepam 10mg 10000pills £500
ketamine £15 each vial/1g
FOR KETAMINE SMALLER ORDER
5vials............£100
10vials............£175
20vials............£325
25vials............£400
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50vials............£650
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Bryan Morris
2019-01-24 15:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Optimist
Go away, pest.
Complaint sent.
I assume, if, like me when these posts first arrived, you responded to
"Complaints-To: groups-***@google.com" you'll be told by Google that
you aren't authorised to complain !!!
--
Bryan Morris
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