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From: "***@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 Yes, the thing goes full circle, from chasing the dream of enlightenment, to gaining the reality of enlightenment (and losing the former dream of enlightenment), and finally, having the enlightenment recreate the dream, in reality.Â
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it.
I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of.
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol
seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about "helping the poor" and being "nice", will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves.Â
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
that is funny Jim. Â a very simple, yet relevant observation.
yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal.
maybe along the lines, "if I can't have it, no one can".
really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development.
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
"'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one..."
An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament.
This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! Â
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success':
'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.'
'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.'
The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely.
---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :
MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires.
From: "Michael Jackson ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace.
From: "Share Long ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such.
The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're "enlightened." There are other qualities that I value more.
From: "TurquoiseBee ***@... [FairfieldLife]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 From: "Bhairitu ***@... [FairfieldLife]"
Â
On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, ***@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 From: "***@... [FairfieldLife]"<***@yahoogroups.com>
On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee ***@...[FairfieldLife] wrote:
 It'snot so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, butI've always gotten a chucklefrom "TM is the fastest pathto enlightenment on theplanet," coming from anorganization that in over 50years has been unable toproduce even a single personthey can point at and say,"This person is enlightened,and got that way as a resultof practicing TM."
What organizationdoes?
Just to make apoint about the kinds ofbullshit humans are willing toaccept, think about the TM salespitch for enlightenment,compared to almost anything elsebeing sold on this planet:
-- "So, that'syour introductory lecture. Justsign here, pay us your $75, andwe promise you that you will befully enlightened in fiveyears."Â (Please notethat this actually *happened*with the TM movement.)
--"Sounds good, but looking intomy crystal ball that shows methe future, I can see that whatyou're trying to sell me isn'tgoing to cost me only $75, buttens of thousands ofdollars over 30 or 40 years, topay for all the extra coursesand 'add-ons' you'll try to sellme. What can you show me toconvince me that this'enlightenment' you're trying tosell me will actually occur, andthat if it does, it's worth it?
-- "Well, you justhave to trust us. Give us yourmoney now, and in 5 to 8 years(ooops, sorry about that) you'llbe enlightened. And you've heardthe lectures -- when you'reenlightened, you'll be able toknow everything and haveeverything you want just bywanting it. Isn't that worth thehundreds of thousands of dollars(ooops again) you'll wind uppaying us?"
--"It *might* be worth it, butwhat can you show me to prove tome that this 'enlightenment'you're selling me actuallyexists? For example, there aremany people here in the roomtoday who have been practicingTM for more than 8 years, themaximum time you say it willtake to become enlightened.Point out the ones who areenlightened, and let me talk tothem to figure out if this isall going to be worth it."
-- "Sorry.<insert reverential tone ofbullshit here> 'We don't talkabout our individual state ofconsciousness.'"
--"WTF? So you're saying that Ijust have to TRUST you about allthis enlightenment stuff, andyou are NEVER going to show meanyone who you can guarantee hasachieved it?"
-- "That's right."
--"You DO know that this isinsane, right? Promising the'fastest path' to somethingyou'll later refuse to everproduce?"
-- "You thinkWE'RE insane? Talk to themillions of people who boughtthis exact sales pitch hook,line, and sinker."Â
:-)
It's a "path to enlightenment" but my point was that no organizationI know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TMteaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of theirnervous system. And by no means would it be the fastest. It reallyis just a meditation for the masses. It's nothing special otherthan it was probably better organized than some of the other frontrunners.
Bhairitu, it's not "guaranteeing enlightenment" that I'm riffing on for hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never *producing* it I'm riffing on.Â
That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too stupid to ever say, "Now wait a minute...where are all these enlightened people you promised me I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to me. Show me an enlightened person."
Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the counterpart of the line in the fairy tale that goes, "Uh, guys...you *have* noticed that the Emperor has no clothes on, right?" Asked to put up or shut up and actually *produce* a "certified TM enlightened person," the TMO wouldn't have been able to do so.
It's all a house of cards perpetuated by the fact that no one ever says, "Show me an enlightened person."
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